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bito On February - 12 - 2011

Always ready to learn!

Are you having problems with your medical devices or your printers?  Looking for less expensive ink cartridges?

Oh, different  HP.

Just a note to the new members:
We try to make an attempt to keep single topic posts and their threads on that topic and while it is not a hard and fast rule we do make an effort.  There are many times when a discussion develops on a thread that develop from an off shoot of the topic, no harm,  however right now HuffPo is on almost every post and thread so if you have something on it to say, please use this post.

Yes, the Morning Blog (MB) and Time Out for Off Topic (TO/OT ) are used for off post comments, we are proud of our MB and it’s international news.  It receives the most hits and is the most searched post on the Planet.  Discussion and chatter are welcomed there, just be mindful of the work that Kalima puts into the post.  Take a moment to read and comment about what is going on in the rest of the world.  Soon you will be reading, discussing and chatting while enjoying your morning coffee.

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Written by bito

Was once a handsome frog until kissed by an ugly corporate princess.----- Like a well honed knife, the internet can be a wonderful and useful tool. It can be used to prepare and serve a delicious meal or it can be used to cause harm. peace

634 Responses so far.

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    • escribacat says:

      Fascinating link, jkkFL. Thanks. Everyone on HP should read that.

    • Well, bots don’t work very well anymore, with more IP tracing and capcha safeguards (among others).

      So they have to find a new way to do it.

      This is why I have a problem with most “business-oriented” college programs. Marketing and advertising seem to teach students to assume that every person on the planet is a complete imbecile and totally gullible. Personnel Management seems to assume that every employee (but never managers or executives) is a dishonest thief whose only goal is to rob the company blind. Risk Management is the same. The Accounting-oriented classes seem to teach obfuscation more than competency.

      Not only that, but I hear a lot from friends in various industries, from doctors’ offices to IT. Many people without the “benefit” of a business major are getting upset by how the managers and execs seem to believe that dishonesty, cheating, and other ethical violations are perfectly okay -- it’s “the price of doing business”.

      I suppose that is why Social Entrepreneurship, Social Justice, and other similar movements in the business world are coming under attack by the right and the pseudo-cons.

      • escribacat says:

        I’m pretty sure that if they create virtual machines on a laptop, each virtual machine will have a unique IP address.

      • jdmn17 says:

        2nd class

        I have an advanced marketing degree and you are right -- we were taught about “positioning” products and my favorite book from there was called “Positioning, the Battle for your Mind”. It really nailed the whole world of subterfuge.

        I learned well, thirty years of massaging data and messages and I got really good at it. Finally I tired of it, guess you spend enough years putting lipstick on a pig and you realize you are still selling pigs.

        • The worse part is when you realize that you have been selling pigs to synogogues, Geritol to kindergartners, etc.

          Then there are those that sell cyanide to kindergartners, convince people that puppies are agents of the Apocalypse, and package torture implements as playground equipment.

          The biggest marketing “fail” of the last century is credit/debit cards. But *everybody* has to have one, despite the fact that schools can not teach basic personal finance anymore.

          I would go through YouTube and find some of the worst offenders in television/internet advertising, but then I would have to watch them first. I’m not sure I want to test my fiath in humanity that much right now.

  1. celere says:

    A few good hours of back-and-forth on the Wisconsin thread (which should have been, but wasn’t, the main) — then all of a sudden, wham! lockdown, with 400+ pending comments.

    Somebody’s insane.

  2. Kalima says:

    Celere, sorry I had run out of parking space down there, just wanted you to know that we are happy that you are here, explore the site a little if you want to. If you go to the bottom of the Home Page, you will see boxes with numbers, you can see the type of wonderful articles which have been posted here since we began the site. We don’t want you to read all of them of course, but random clicks will be quite interesting maybe. Hope you enjoy The Planet, nice to have you aboard.

    This might interest you too.


    • celere says:

      Thanks again, Kalima and Adlib. The site looks great. I’m glad it’s here and glad I found it!

      • Kalima says:

        Glad you like it, if you run into any problems, check out our FAQ at the top of the page. If no one is available to help, please leave your question in the Help Desk in the top right hand side 4 boxes. We will assist you as soon as we possibly can.

        Have a good night/morning.

  3. Kalima says:

    For all of you who who might have missed this, I posted it in MB this morning.

    I’ll just bet you do, but everything comes after a dollar bill. Would have made more sense is she had used the word “lesions.”

    Arianna Huffington: ‘I believe in little legions’

    “The $315m sale of the Huffington Post to AOL is a great deal for its founder – but what about the unpaid bloggers who made it a success?”


    • ghsts says:

      Thanks now I can avoid snacks this evening, nausea once again.

      This is all a real issue of principal being taught in business schools as gospel since the success of Facebook and Twitter. I heard and interesting interview with the creator of Bar Karma a new concept show on current TV, Al’s little huff.


      Will Wright, I think of sims fame, sums it up best when describing the google methodology. It isn’t AI or great code it is the ability to “harvest” the resource of free, cheap human thinking/creativity and then profit. Nowhere does anyone acknowledge any cost or obligation associated with this “resource”.

      In my final capstone class for entrepreneurship cert, Scott Jones of gracenote, voicemail and chacha was a guest lecturer. After several hours discussing chacha’s insertion as the state’s “official” search engine I asked how much compensation did the state require for the contract. With horror, shock and insult he paused then answered “none.”

  4. Fi says:

    Hi everyone, just before I take myself of to sleepy-byes, I thought I might leave you something to read.

    • Kalima says:

      Sorry Fi, I didn’t see your comment, I had posted the same link earlier on MB (Morning Blog) in the morning before 2 a.m.

    • celere says:

      Good article, Fi. Thanks for posting it. Reading this,

      “Washington Post journalist Dana Milbank opened an article with the question, “Did Arianna Huffington just sell out her fellow progressives?” and proceeded to answer in the affirmative. Others have expressed doubt that the 9,000 registered bloggers who write for the Huffington Post for free will be willing to continue to be so self-sacrificing for AOL”

      made me wish some of those 9,000 bloggers would pool their resources and start their own site to compete with HP.

        • celere says:

          This is a really nice website, Adlib, and I haven’t even begun to check everything out. But to compete with HP, it needs more publicity, it needs to be “out there” in the public eye more, and you, if you are the spokesperson, should try to get yourself interviewed by places like MSNBC, as Markos of Daily KOS and Ms. Huff have done.

          That seems to be how it works. Maybe you already do these things and I’m just not aware of it.

          Also, this might be a good time to make a play for the disaffected HP bloggers. Invite them on board, give them some kind of perks to make them want to blog here, etc.

          Just some ideas…

          • AdLib says:

            What Arianna did was finance her site originally through hedge funds.

            The problem with seeking another site to suddenly be highly financed and marketed as a competitor is that the only way that can happen is for a big money entity to be behind it…and then you’re back in the HP exploitation of Progressives to sell the site in several years cycle again.

            This is the thing about building a legitimate grass roots community and site, it takes time and dedication.

            People have to come together and bring other people in, just as you describe, if they want a site that truly is a reflection of them and their views.

            I’m not saying The Planet is the only place for that but it is one site that’s run by your fellow progressive bloggers who owe nothing to corporate or moneyed interests.

            As for publicity, that’s the magic of social networking. As a community grows, it can network and create its own publicity.

            I harken back to Obama’s famous quoting of, “We are the ones we’ve been waiting for.”

            I think all here agree, there needs to be a strong competitor to HP that truly represents the people and the truth.

            Let’s not wait for someone else to get it financed by hedge funds that don’t actually support us or our principles and will happily sell us out, let’s build it ourselves!

            • AdLib says:

              Cheers celere, so nice to have you on The Planet!

            • celere says:

              Ah, I should have guessed there would be big money behind HP, given who started it. So yes she had quite a leg up on things from the start. And now it looks like her intentions weren’t the best; therefore, all that money was, in the long run, wasted. (Unless she’s trying to be a “kingmaker” for the 2012 elections, which is what I suspect.)

              What you wrote here is really nice Adlib; I find it inspiring. The ability to inspire is a gift that is VERY much needed at this time. I think you have a good thing going.

          • Kalima says:

            We are not trying to compete with HP or any other site. We started The Planet as an alternative to our experience with HP, to give people the freedom to say what was on their minds without moderation, trolls or any kind of nastiness that you will find on other sites. We have many new members from HP over the last week, and many are still joining us each day.

            Thank you for your suggestions though, and welcome to The Planet.

            • celere says:

              Thanks for the welcome, Kalima. You and Adlib have created a lovely place here, and I look forward to exploring it.

            • Kalima says:

              bito, what on earth are you doing all the way down there, come up and enjoy the view.

              Well you know how rumours start. 😉

            • Kalima says:

              No problem celere, I was only trying to clarify what our site was all about, it wasn’t taken in any way that you were telling us how to run the site. Some people just seem to think that we’ve only just launched, but we’ve been around since mid 09.

              Again thanks, and welcome. :)

            • celere says:

              Well okay, that’s fine, Kalima.

              I thought that’s what Adlib meant when he/she responded to my comment about a website that could compete with HP with, “Et voila.”

              I don’t normally go around just telling people how to run their websites. Not THAT much of a backseat driver. :-)

            • bito says:

              Well, said Kalima. I’ve heard a rumor that you are one one of the founders of this site, any truth to that?

            • Kalima says:

              You are very welcome Truth, thanks for joining us here, and welcome to The Planet, in case I forgot to say it before now.

            • Truth says:

              Hi Kalima, and yes, this is the way to become strong, also in a political sense.
              Thank you so much for creating The Planet!

  5. celere says:

    I’d like to share the reasons I’ve chosen not to leave HP thus far.

    I had been observing what was happening there for about a year, and for a long time I didn’t know if it was “just me” or if other people had also noticed the change in tone, the unfair, slanted reporting, the increase in censorship, arbitrary deletions, artificial popularity contests, etc. It was a relief to learn that others had picked up on these problems as well. I’m not on Facebook and don’t have many outlets on which to discuss this stuff. For awhile, I was hoping HP would be professional enough to put up a permanent user thread, in the spirit of customer service, where people could openly address their likes and dislikes about the site, their preferences, etc. I suggested it a couple of times before it hit me that it was pointless to try, because there seems to be an unyielding, autocratic, iron fist in control. That was a distressing realization.

    So I am very grateful to the person who told me about PlanetPOV. Everything about this place seems worthwhile and positive — the content, the tone, the openness. People seem so much more relaxed and real. And we can finally talk openly about what’s been going on over there.

    But I never took HP personally enough to feel sufficiently hurt and angry to “break up” with it, as if it were a relationship. There were two basic things that attracted to me to HP:

    1) The opportunity to discuss politics — and strategy — with other progressives. The MSM (except, recently, MSNBC) and all the powers-that-be ignore us, and we need each other if we’re ever to have any hope of returning America to something approximating democracy.

    2) HP has a HUGE audience to read our points of view and our ideas. I believe strongly in the power of words and ideas as a means of reaching and influencing others. I believe that hundreds, or even thousands, of articulate progressive voices on a very popular, well-read site can make a REAL political difference. We can counter the MSM lies. We can debate Righties, undo their arguments, and make some of them reconsider their views. We can undo some of the Faux News brainwashing. We can help those in the middle to think with more knowledge and insight.

    Basically, I see HP as a tool to reach the minds of my fellow Americans. It’s no longer a “pleasant” tool; there are so many trolls now, so much stupidity and nastiness floating about, insane moderation, etc. At this point it almost feels like entering a war zone and lobbing a few truth bombs about. But I think it still makes a difference — a small difference, maybe, but a real one. If every day I can make even one person think, I consider that success. If by chance my insights are picked up by someone with better connections, a louder megaphone, that’s a success, too. I try to encourage and support other good progressive voices out there through faving, fanning, and supportive comments. I don’t want us to be lone voices. Together, we exert influence.

    I don’t want this country to go to hell. I don’t want our children and grandchildren to have to live under some kind of corporate oligarchy. I don’t want humanity to lose the promise of democracy. And I don’t want my life to be meaningless. I want to do my part to change things for the better. We’re all going to be dead some day, and this world will go on without us. But if we try, maybe we can help it choose a better, more sustainable, more humane path. I believe we can.

    Some of the strong commenters are still there at HP, and when they show up, it’s an incredible comfort. It feels like — I don’t know, comrades? — good guys fighting the good fight. It almost feels like a duty to me.

    As for HP’s future…if it continues along this negative path, then I hope it gets public notice that causes it to lose credibility and clout. And I hope a REAL progressive news source of similar scale comes along to replace it.

    In the meantime, I’ll keep on fighting out there. Until, I guess, they ban me.

    • escribacat says:

      Celere, what a great post. I’ve been hanging out on PPOV for over a year and never felt the need to delete my account over there. My motives are slightly different for going there — I think it’s important to question their incendiary headlines and slanted stories, to question the site’s motivations. A lot of people there still believe that it’s a progressive website — which is what they were meant to think.

      • celere says:

        Thanks, Escribacat. I totally agree with what you’re doing and have been trying to do the same thing. This is why I keep expecting them to ban me.

        But if we just delete our accounts and leave, then there’s no corrective to all the nonsense; it goes unchallenged. Someone has be there to tell the truth.

        • escribacat says:

          I agree! And I have no idea why I haven’t been banned yet. A very large percentage of my posts are criticizing HP, the headlines, and AH. They’ve never offered me a “pundit” badge though! 😆

          • jdmn17 says:


            I was over there yesterday and ranted and shouted and used “bad” names. I wonder if the banning has stopped for now? They did delete most everything I wrote but I knew that going in. I got a message this morning and went over briefly. Looked at the posts on the story and started to feel the anger rising, took Truth’s and some others loving advice and bailed out. I don’t think we’ll get banned. They have turned over enough of the high fan posters they don’t need to worry about my measly totals.
            I might have made mod2 status last night. I think I flagged about 100 posts on the Scott Brown article alone :-)

            Definitely NOT pundit material, or is that pundint? I know Sara Palin must have used that term at least twice in her interview with Sean.

  6. Itchybiscuit says:

    Hello to my friends from another place -- it’s good to ‘see’ you all. Once I get the hang of the site I shall be wading in with the best of them! It’s a great relief to be ‘here’ rather than ‘there’.

    • Gransview says:

      Hello Dear Itchy!

      • Itchybiscuit says:

        Hello to you too! I’ve been meaning to use my account here but I mentioned why I haven’t somewhere below. Great to ‘see’ you here Grans.

    • Truth says:

      Most welcome, Itchybiscuit. Isn’t that aol thingy simply wonderful? It made us all come here to a REAL progressive site.

      • Itchybiscuit says:

        Thanks Truth, appreciate the welcome. I also decided to show the real me when I posted rather than my tiger av. Clean sweep, new start, etc, etc…

        • Truth says:

          It seems to happen to a lot of folks. I too gave up my alter ego as an American which I had to adopt on Hpoo due to the trolls.

          But now I’m honestly sad that as a Swiss the President is not “my” President anymore. However I thought about it and I think I claim him anyway as mine!

          • Itchybiscuit says:

            I went there to keep up with all things political. I’m not an American either and didn’t hide the fact. The things that happen in America have a direct impact on us wherever we are so I wanted to be informed. Now all I get are salacious stories about non-entity celebs. How the flighty have fallen…

            • Truth says:

              The things that happen in America have a direct impact on us wherever we are so I wanted to be informed.


    • jdmn17 says:

      Welcome itchy

      I think you’ll like it here. I have been back to the old place talking to friends and it’s just so tiring to wade through post after post of snark and name calling

      Much mellower here

      • Itchybiscuit says:

        Thanks jdmn17, I signed up to this place last year but found the comments interface a bit ‘clunky’. I guess I was just too used to the other place. I shall endeavour to persevere.

        • Truth says:

          I made already a couple of suggestions concerning that at the help desk and AdLib is seeing into it. Since we are more people now, there will be more contributions and who knows, maybe sometime in the relatively near future we can get access to the replies we receive in one place.

  7. Fi says:

    I have decided to make it my mission to visit HP everyday, and inform at least one other person about this website, don’t know if it will do any good, but I shall persevere.

    • Itchybiscuit says:

      Hi Fi, good to see you my friend -- and all my other friends from that place. I deleted my account before I informed anyone. Sorry for being so abrupt!

      • Fi says:

        Itchy, I am so happy to see you, I have not deleted mine just yet, but the day is drawing closer and closer, I can feel it in my water.
        I’ve only been here for a few days too, and still very much finding my feet.

        • Itchybiscuit says:

          Thanks Fi, I was worried about losing all the great folks I met over there and so kept putting it off. Having a perfectly on topic and salient comment deleted without even a notification of its deletion on an already fully-modded thread really got my back up. I didn’t relish having to fight my way through two levels of moderation every time I said something hence my ‘defection’. It’s great to see a fellow Scot here too!

          • Fi says:

            I have to admit itchy, thats all that keeps me going back, to see Freesia, Misgirltin, and the rest, I like them, and as soon as they come over here, I’ll quit the site.
            Funnily enough I find the time differance can be a problem for me, I think by the time this site is in fully functioning mode, I’m tucked up in bed, but I’ll find a way thru’ it, never fear!

    • Truth says:

      FI, I do the same. So far many said they came, but they didn’t. Nevertheless it’s good if they know where we are and that they are welcome.

      • Fi says:

        I have been across already today, and had 3 posts deleted, I was just saying Good morning to all the tro//s there, honest.

        • Gransview says:

          HiFi (Love your name) Good to meet you!

        • Truth says:

          Hi Fi, I don’t know exactly how you wished the trollies a good morning, but obviously something went a bit wrong…

          In any case, be careful if you feel that a human mod is stalking you. Sometimes they pick people out and read every post of them. It happened to me about 1 1/2 years ago. I think I complained in an email or two and didn’t post for several weeks, when I came back it was better. (That is, until the complete lockdown of the weeks before the aol sale.)

          • Fi says:

            Thanx Truth, you could be right you know, in fact one of the posts was regarding a doc I watched on the BBC the other night, and apart from pointing out the USA, appears to having a “brain drain” at the moment, it was quite a neutral comment.

            • Truth says:

              What to do, it happens once in a while.
              Just be careful to mention the planet if they’re deleting many of your posts, for it may mean they observe you closely. But as I posted on OT (and asked the editors to shift it to this thread) one ex-huffer got an email that they’re short on mods and therefore there’s more automatic moderation in place. Good for us, the censoring is less currently.

    • KQuark says:

      Cheers Fi. Great idea.

  8. BabsBP says:

    One friend at HP told me about this site. I am a newbie compared to other posters, but I am thrilled with the quality level of the discussion here. The discussions at HP are deteriorating by the hour.

  9. 2belinda says:

    It is something to witness the steady stream of folks coming over from the darkness, into the light.

  10. Algebra Palin says:

    well ain’t this a nice little place.
    i have nothing to say, really except:
    f arianna stassinopolous.
    f her site
    f the maudes (i’m so conditioned)
    f sarah palin
    f her lazy eye
    f her man-jaw
    f baggers
    f birthers
    f john boehner’s tanning bed

    that’s about it.

    • jdmn17 says:

      Welcome Algebra. I got where you got about ten days ago, the day of the big News!

      Once the threads went on lock down that was that, final nail.

      Hope you make this a regular stopping point

    • boomer1949 says:

      Welcome to The Planet Algebra! We are very happy you are here, and you can actually use those “nasty” words if you choose. The only exception being flinging them at the rest of us. 😉

    • Truth says:

      Hi Algebra, Welcome. We all had to vent at first. After a while you’re going to feel better and get again access to your own inner wealth, that was so badly muzzled at HP: I’m looking forward to your POV! (point of view)

    • escribacat says:

      Well said, Algebra. And welcome.

  11. dct1999 says:

    HP has become a poisonous place. I decided to delete my account because of the constant negativity and the ceaseless, senseless moderation of thoughtful posts from all perspectives.

    • Redemption Song II says:

      Hurrah!! (Welcome to the Planet. :0)

    • Truth says:

      Hi dct, very welcome. You don’t necessarily need to delete your account, it’s still useful to chime in once in a while and to bring more friends over. Now that I understood the game I can cope much better with it. But first, make yourself comfortable and take your time for detoxing…. :)

    • UpstateSC says:

      Hey DCT! Good to see you here. You are quite right about HP’s negativity and moderation.

    • escribacat says:

      Hello dct, welcome! The last thread I checked into over there was under lockdown with over 800 comments pending! Why bother?

  12. intotheabyss says:

    Good afternoon/evening all. Haven’t had much time to come by here in the last few days. Hope all are well.

    I just came upon this little gem and wanted to share.



  13. coffeegod says:

    Back in the day, my husband’s pat reply for anything AOL-related was ‘Still trying to polish that turd, huh?’

    That was my very first thought when I read of the merger.

    I feel duped and stupid. I actually bought the idea that AH had really dropped her conservative cloak and joined the free thinkers of the world. Teach me to believe anything a political commentator says, won’t it?

    • PocketWatch says:

      :arrow:coffeegod -- I always thought the zenith of AOL was the GEM interface in DOS. Fast, easy, intuitive, and totally cool, long before Windows was a gleam in little Billy Gates’ eye.


    • escribacat says:

      coffee, I believed it back in early 2009 but gradually saw that all was not what it appeared to be…mostly due to incendiary headlines and the ubiquitous promotional drivel for Arianna’s books and appearances that we got plastered with every time we logged on. Gak!!

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