Vox Populi, our weekly live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7:00 pm PT. Hope to see you then!
AdLib3 hours ago
Hey AD!
choicelady
2 hours ago
Hey CL! How are things?
AdLib2 hours ago
Chaos abounds in our lives here and the world, but otherwise fine. How about you?
choicelady
2 hours ago
Trying to dodge chaos but it is flirting with me.
AdLib2 hours ago
Well, chaos has ITS nerve!
choicelady
2 hours ago
What’s up?
choicelady
2 hours ago
Indeed! Working on putting this business together that I told you about, art of that involving enormous amounts of computer time which can be exhausting as I’m sure you know.
AdLib2 hours ago
But enthusiastic at the same time.
AdLib2 hours ago
I do know – it’s interesting up to a point, then gets overwhelming.
choicelady
2 hours ago
Good to hear! Read? Glad there remains a lure for you to carry you on!
choicelady
2 hours ago
Yep. Have been learning scads about using AI to build websites among other things.
AdLib2 hours ago
Yes, the potentials are very good. Brought a friend on to join me and another friend and it’s taking a bit for him to catch up with everything but he’s smart and clever so it’s all coming along.
AdLib2 hours ago
Hubs’ daughter is w a major tech firm NOT rushing into AI saying it’s not ready for a lot of things they are both overpromising and monetizing. This company is being very careful. So if you’re using it, you’re also educating it, and that’s helpful.
choicelady
2 hours ago
Glad to read that, too!
choicelady
2 hours ago
These are the same things I say about AI. It is way overpromised in what it can actually do. TW and I concluded, it is not true AI but LLM, Large Language Model which is essentially a claw machine that can only pull out what has already been dumped into it, it is not something that can create, only regurgitate.
AdLib2 hours ago
Very cool! Thank you!
AdLib2 hours ago
That’s apparently true. And I, as an historian who waded through innumerable hand written docs, know that cursive writing may be our human superpower against AI and jerky Gen Z types. NOBODY can read it but us!
choicelady
2 hours ago
And if something has not been downloaded into it, it can’t put ideas together to provide that thing. It simply comes up empty.
AdLib2 hours ago
Love it!
AdLib2 hours ago
I went through thousands of handwritten reports of the Appellate Court in each county in MA. The handwriting is all different, clerk to clerk, and it took FOREVER to decipher. That alone defeats simple absorption of data. Non uniform stuff? Machines would blow up!
choicelady
2 hours ago
TW and I tried an experiment, I found a concept it one AI engine had not downloaded and it found it impossible to provide it. TW tried the same prompt on a different AI, same problem. But when we connected the dots for it and said, apply one thing you know to this thing you don’t know, it followed the breadcrumbs we had to lay for it and provided that. So clear to us now. A very successful experiment too! I feel like a legit scientist…or detective.
AdLib2 hours ago
Hey TW!
AdLib2 hours ago
CL – And AI blowing up wouldn’t exactly leave us worse off.
AdLib2 hours ago
Saw an hilarious “chat” between a person and an AI advisor. He spoke absolute nonsense, and she replied as if it made sense.
choicelady
2 hours ago
Hello everyone another day in crazy town Trump renaming a lake that is clearly on the US side
twilson117
2 hours ago
Hey TW!!
choicelady
2 hours ago
Can we rename the Potomac, Swamp of Trump?
AdLib2 hours ago
I, as a former Buffalonian, suggested to Canadians that they remember the route from Erie to Ontario is essentially Niagara Falls, and they have the Welland Canal with locks to raise and lower ships over it. Call it the “Strait of OurMoose” and charge tolls or block all US ships. We would be able to do NOTHING by water.
choicelady
2 hours ago
CL – Yes, AI has intentionally been programmed to address people with a blind flattery, to suck people into using it,
AdLib2 hours ago
If I can find it I will post it to you. It’s a howl.
choicelady
2 hours ago
HEH! I love “Strait of OurMoose”!
AdLib2 hours ago
No rename Mar-a-Lago the Best Little Whore House in Flordia
twilson117
2 hours ago
TW – Love it!!!
AdLib2 hours ago
TW – you are definitely onto something. Dolly’s Revenge!
choicelady
2 hours ago
What about “Marred-A-Lardo”?
AdLib2 hours ago
That works, Ad.
choicelady
2 hours ago
Ah Dolly and Tim Curry what a shame
twilson117
2 hours ago
Did you see the pathetic orange roach put up an AI image of Dolly walking with him at the WH…holding his arm affectionately?!
AdLib2 hours ago
Someone posted to Karma – “Aim better!”
choicelady
2 hours ago
Marred-A-Lardo works for me
twilson117
2 hours ago
TW – Yes, I enjoyed Tim Curry immensely.
AdLib2 hours ago
I am aware Dolly’s whole life was finding the good in people. I think even she would be hard pressed in his case.
choicelady
2 hours ago
I did not see that image and I think we know she wouldn’t do that
twilson117
2 hours ago
If Lardo had a photo of them together, he’d have posted it. Says a lot he hasn’t got one.
choicelady
2 hours ago
I saw people posting on BlueSky about two wonderful 80 year old people being taken, “God, you missed!”
AdLib2 hours ago
Ad – EXACTLY.
choicelady
2 hours ago
I admit, I really do wake up or go to bed with a last look at BlueSky to see if maybe he died.
AdLib2 hours ago
Cartoon of God at the Pearly Gates reaming out a novice angel. “I said bring me the shit slinger, not the hit singer!”
choicelady
2 hours ago
Yup. We all do that now.
choicelady
2 hours ago
If the will power of hundreds of millions of people really could cause something to happen, Trump would just blow up.
AdLib2 hours ago
CL – Yes!
AdLib2 hours ago
I’d be fine if he just melted.
choicelady
2 hours ago
Melting is good, blowing up is good, having him fall into the Grand Canyon is good too.
AdLib2 hours ago
As The Joker said, all it takes is a little push.
AdLib2 hours ago
TW, I was never Dolly’s biggest fan in music, but I was about her life. She was one of the few really, really GOOD people, and her greatness is now being revealed. Supportive of BLM, of LGBTQ people, of immigrants and diversity everywhere. She never let anyone – but maybe Trump – out of her care.
choicelady
2 hours ago
I really want it to be public.
choicelady
2 hours ago
Just a reality check, someone using sea shells to form “8647” is actually being pursued by the DoJ as an intention to murder the preisdent.
AdLib2 hours ago
That’s James Comey being accused of something for that shell photo.
choicelady
2 hours ago
I keep hoping he will walk on his golf course in and be greeted by giant Anaconda that lovingly wraps itself around him and say some along the lines of just when I was whishing for a lit snack you come along what timing!
twilson117
2 hours ago
TW!! I LOVE IT!!!
choicelady
2 hours ago
CL – Couldn’t agree more. She was one of those feisty and confident Southern Women who did their own thing to be a good person and just ignored the haters.
AdLib2 hours ago
Her “Coat of Many Colors” was an indicator she knew what was true very young. Made fun of by her classmates for her patchwork coat made by her mother, she was PROUD of it even young and susceptible to peer pressure. Say a whole lot about her.
choicelady
2 hours ago
CL – Yes, I was describing Comey…an ex-FBI Director! That’s who they are trying to prosecute as a would-be assassin?
AdLib2 hours ago
Trump say back ‘but the song it is my favorite you know the one, the Anaconda says yes but I don’t bite I just love to squeeze my admirers
twilson117
2 hours ago
They graps at eyelashes, straws being unavailable.
choicelady
2 hours ago
TW – They do have lots of aligators in FL too.
AdLiban hour ago
LOL! TW, let the Anaconda give him a BIG HUG!!
choicelady
an hour ago
Gators would be fine, too.
choicelady
an hour ago
If an anaconda tried to swallow Trump, if someone made that Pay Per View, it would make billions.
AdLiban hour ago
I’d watch.
choicelady
an hour ago
I’d let the toast burn and the water overflow the tub, spellbound in watching that anaconda get it done.
AdLiban hour ago
In all my days and in all my world, I never once wished actual harm on anyone. Humiliation, sure. Not harm. I would not shed a tear for him though.
choicelady
an hour ago
Gators are to fast Anaconda do it slowly like they are truly enjoying their meal
twilson117
an hour ago
If he wants to be the center of global attention, shuffling off this mortal coil would do it.
choicelady
an hour ago
Can we hang a “Free Hugs” sign on an anaconda and place it in front of Mar-a-Lago?
AdLiban hour ago
tw – I think that’s a really good point: slow and sweet.
choicelady
an hour ago
Ad – anything is worth a shot.
choicelady
an hour ago
TW – It would take a gator days to gobble up Lardo.
AdLiban hour ago
Even better.
choicelady
an hour ago
Of course Natalie come running out to beat it off with her printer, that’s when the gators show up
twilson117
an hour ago
Ad and they wouldn’t have to eat for at least a month
twilson117
an hour ago
Natalie can join him. I’ve learned a lot about her, and she’s ugly to the bone with her nastiness. I’d not mourn her either.
choicelady
an hour ago
So what do we think about Jeffries meeting with Jared and the initial reports being that they were trying to find common ground? I saw Jeffries later reacted to ourtrage by denying that but he did this in secret. Not happy with him myself.
AdLiban hour ago
Shades of the Fall of the Roman Empire
twilson117
an hour ago
Natalie is one twisted cultist. She’s posted some of the most awful “truths” for Trump.
AdLiban hour ago
Ad – he didn’t “do it in secret”. He just did it because Jared ASKED for the meeting. The GOP are scared to death of a Dem win, and he begged to meet. It’s JUST A MEETING. Happens all the time. Of course Jeffries met w him. It’s getting INTEL on Jared’s plans.
choicelady
an hour ago
He’s a politician it’s what they do look out for themselves.
twilson117
an hour ago
CL – It was secret, Jeffries did not announce it, it leaked out from the Trump side.
AdLiban hour ago
I used to do a conference at the Mayflower and saw many such meeting in the restaurant. One was the week Obama was inaugurated with Bill Kristol and his interns, others w rich lobbyists and staffers. This is the stuff of politics ALWAYS.
choicelady
an hour ago
And Jared is officially nothing in the government. Why wouldn’t Jeffries meet with a chief of staff or other legit official. Jared is running the country or controlling it? Really?
AdLiban hour ago
Meeting are ALWAYS private. Nobody announces anything beforehand. That is NOT secret. It’s JUST a meeting.
choicelady
an hour ago
Also I take that meeting as Jared knows something that Trump doesn’t not that he’s going to lose the House and perhaps the Senate but most likely in a way that has never been recorded before perhaps?
twilson117
an hour ago
Why wouldn’t he? He’s not official. He IS powerful. Of course he’d meet w Jared.
choicelady
an hour ago
CL – Obama was very open about meeting with Repubs and wanting a Team of Rivals.
AdLiban hour ago
tw – that’s a great point. But it happens all the time. Private parties w clout get meetings. Period. Full stop. I’ve done it as a lobbyist. I had lunch we staff and legislators all the time. NOBODY knew. Just did it.
choicelady
an hour ago
Jared is not a government official, has no standing officially, it is affirming this dictatorship to negotiate with an unappointed, unelected “prince”.
AdLiban hour ago
Obama had official meetings and unofficial ones. Trust me here as a lobbyist – that’s not remotely unusual.
choicelady
an hour ago
It’s assessing that Jared had info. I have no official standing and met w Congressional people and CA legislators. It’s NO different. I was not a registered lobbyist in DC. THIS IS NORMAL.
choicelady
an hour ago
Yes Obama did but he made it known he would be trying to work with Repubs. Jeffries just affirmed this dictatorship and my question is, how do you negotiate with the dictator’s son-in-law?
AdLiban hour ago
Any citizen can request a meeting w anyone in Congress.
choicelady
an hour ago
CL do you think he did it on his own, or do you think Ms. Wiles asked him do take a meeting?
twilson117
an hour ago
How would you not just LISTEN to Jared. Why presume there was negotiation?
choicelady
an hour ago
Tw – I have no clue of Wiles’ involvement.
choicelady
an hour ago
CL – But at the same time, within the same week, Jeffries came out and announced he opposes Medicare For All and Abolishing ICE. Put all of these together and it does not portend well for a bold, aggressive and undaunted Dem House under Jeffries.
AdLiban hour ago
YOU can aske to talk to a Rep. Anyone can. Your plans may interest them. They will meet with you.
choicelady
an hour ago
Sure but I bet if I asked to talk to Jeffries, he wouldn’t talk to me.
AdLiban hour ago
No – he’s for abolishing ICE when they get POWER not now. And I opposed M4A because it is the MOST costly and unwieldy form of UHC. Remember I’ve read the damned things.
choicelady
an hour ago
CL – Then you’re saying that Jeffries is being dishonest when he vowed he opposed abolishing ICE in lieu of “reforming” them?
AdLiban hour ago
If you had something of interest and relevance he would. Sometimes you meet w staff, sometimes w the member. But Jared’s not just an ordinary citizen. Jeffires was right to ferret him out.
choicelady
an hour ago
CL I do not see Jared as anyway of brilliant negotiator have bathroom slippers that are smarter than him but being married the current president’s daughter does carry weight.
twilson117
an hour ago
That isn’t what he said. He ALREADY got the funding sequestered, and he will make clear what the plans are if and when they take the House. He doesn’t tip his hand.
choicelady
an hour ago
tw – I agree about your slippers. But he IS POWERFUL.
choicelady
an hour ago
And he wanted the meeting – that’s a huge key. Power in DC is “they come to YOU when you are in control”. That’s what Jared did – he’s scared. Jeffries got intel on that fear. All good.
choicelady
an hour ago
As I said, negotiating with Jared is negotiating with the son-in-law of a tyrant. It validates that Jared is accepted by Jeffries as a legit holder of power. All I can say is that if my goal was to reject this dictatorship and use the power of The House to fortify our democracy, I would not start this early “negotiating” terms with the dictator’s son-in-law. How about, screw them, we’re on a march to protect our democracy and only deal with constitutionally legitimate holders of power?
AdLiban hour ago
This is what we do that is weak on our part – we take something really normative and gin up a conspiracy about OUT OWN. Nothing about this is unusual OTHER than Jared ASKED for the meeting. Heather Cox Richardson evaluated it the same. Most people who know gov’t negotiations said the same. Jeffries did nothing wrong or unusual or anything. Haberman leaked it so the Left would do garment rending and teeth gnashing over NOTHING. Great way to divert us.
choicelady
an hour ago
CL power as you know is relevant connections yes he has those, intellect for me that is questionable, means, yes he is rich but so are the people he’s dealing with they met with him because of who he is married to.
twilson117
an hour ago
tw – yes. That’s why he has power. Ivanka. Leaders meet with lots of slimy people. They are info gathering all the time.
choicelady
an hour ago
I honestly cannot believe anyone is upset about it. Business as usual. You make WAY too much out of what I think was a canny and calculated meet up that might have revealed a lot we needed to know.
choicelady
an hour ago
CL yes that has been true throughout history
twilson117
an hour ago
CL – I have a different view that participating in a validation of a tyrannical government is a mistake. You can’t negotiate with terrorists or tyrants because you are validating them at the same time. Does anyone really believe that Trump wants to negotiate with Dems?
AdLiban hour ago
I will never be on the side of “purity” over info. Never. I’ve done this work, hubs has done it. He still gets inside info from dubious sources. It’s important.
choicelady
an hour ago
Ad – who’s talking about Trump? Jared came for his own self. Who says it’s “negotiating” – you are jumping at things not in evidence.
choicelady
an hour ago
Haberman released the story for exactly this result – you’re angry at Jeffries without ANY reason because we still don’t have a clue what was said.
choicelady
an hour ago
Purity? You mean principle. Jeffries displays no principles IMO. A principled leader would publicly say, “I will be happy to speak with Trump or any legitimate official but I will not add my stamp of approval to this country being run as a dictatorship where the son-in-law of a man trying to stamp out our democracy who is not a member of this government, represents himself as a leader of our nation.”
AdLiban hour ago
Now the Left should be angry at Bernie for the $1 M plus he took from AIPAC. AIPAC Tracker found it. And everyone is pretending it’s not true when that was the Gold Standard until last week.
choicelady
an hour ago
I have been doing some research for past several months for the project I have been working on and every book that I have read there stories of good people meeting with bad people for various reasons as to this meeting we are discussing I can only guess Jeffries was seeing what the idiot had to offer .
twilson117
an hour ago
False sense of purity, Ad. Nobody would do that. Get a chance to talk to an insider, you take it to learn what you can.
choicelady
an hour ago
tw is correct =- Jeffries was seeing what Jared wanted. Period. Useful as all get out to know this.
choicelady
an hour ago
CL -Jared came to talk as himself? And who is he and why should he have leverage over our elected officials?
AdLiban hour ago
Why not? Warren Buffet would, too, only I like him. He is in a powerful position on many issues esp. about the Mideast. I would hear Jared out. That’s the best source of finding out what’s going on. Among other things, he’s not that bright and blurts crap we should know.
choicelady
an hour ago
CL – Principles mean someone doesn’t have conditional applications of them. Bernie is awful and he continues to reveal that he’s just a manipulator with nothing positive to offer. Trump and Jared are unprincipled too. As is Jeffries IMO. Who I do like very much is Ossoff.
AdLiban hour ago
You are making very wrong assumptions about what people “should” do as you would being NOT in power. Jeffries has a very different set of requirements on him. And if it’s so bad, why did Mamdani and Bernie both run to cuddle with Trump and you didn’t get outraged? That is much worse. It’s obsequious on their parts.
choicelady
an hour ago
Your principles aren’t in play in DC. Jeffries’ principles are’t purity but information. He did the absolutely right thing.
choicelady
an hour ago
CL – I don’t think standing up and shouting, “The Emperor has no clothes!” is purity or a false sense of purity. Everyone in the MSM and elsewhere are acting like this dictatorship is just normal. People like Jeffries are treating it like it is a norm. It’s not and acting like it is damages our democracy..
AdLiban hour ago
You seem to think Dems have the room to disregard the powerful on the RIGHT who can kill us.
choicelady
an hour ago
I just hope Jeffries can live up to the expectations people have of him for me first things first win the House and hopefully the Senate do not make impeachment the first item on the agenda work that in down the road but fix what this idiot has broken open up as many investigation need to stymie what the Repugs what to do if they know how to do build a case for impeachment where the Senate has to vote guilty or don’t do it at all.
twilson117
an hour ago
It’s INTEL, Ad. INTEL. He would be remiss to pass the chance by.
choicelady
an hour ago
tw – totally with you. We don’t get 67 votes, don’t impeach. He gets empowered by non conviction. We did it twice, and he got STRONGER. Claims “exoneration”!
choicelady
an hour ago
Many people saw Mamdani manipulating Trump in patting him on the head, all world leaders have done the same to him to get what they want. I don’t think people thought Mamdani actually liked or endorsed Trump.
AdLiban hour ago
He will be bragging forever about it thinking he is invincible
twilson117
an hour ago
The fact that so many of Trump’s endorsed nominees LOST makes me think we MIGHT get GOP w some moxie. We will see.
choicelady
an hour ago
Well, guess what – Mamdani looked like a suck up to me and lots of others going to see Trump. Just like Bernie.
choicelady
an hour ago
CL – What intel does Jared have that he would divulge to undermine Trump? I don’t understand that?
AdLiban hour ago
Well, it’s INTEL. One doesn’t divulge. He might have gotten NOTHING from Jared, but Jared wanted the meeting, and that alone makes it worth listening. Doesn’t mean anything came of it. We don’t know.
choicelady
an hour ago
What makes you assume Jared was undermining Trump v asking for things to help Trump that now Jeffries knows. It’s important whatever Jeffries found out.
choicelady
an hour ago
TW – I wish that was possible but even if Dems win The House and Senate, there won’t be a lot they can do to fix all the damage Trump has done…and he will keep doing damage even after Dems get majorities in Congress. This is going to taks bold, strong stands by Dems to be willing to stop government in its tracks until Trump bends to their demands to halt the dictatorship or they won’t fund it.
AdLiban hour ago
Top level people met with Hess when he flew to England to save his ass. Same thing.
choicelady
an hour ago
So you think Jared is running away from Trump?
AdLiban hour ago
If they could get 67 votes, they can impeach AND convict, and they can override vetoes.
choicelady
an hour ago
I don’t know, Ad. Jeffries didn’t either. THAT is why he listened.
choicelady
an hour ago
Does any Dem in Congress not already know what Trump wants and need Jared to tell them?
AdLiban hour ago
I believe Jared is so venal he’d sell out Donald in a nanosecond if he could get something for himself. Worth finding out if that’s true.
choicelady
an hour ago
CL – Why do you think so highly of Jeffries? Just curious.
AdLiban hour ago
NOBODY in Congress knows all the inside stuff. \
choicelady
an hour ago
Ad You are right it will take a lot from the Dems should things go the way many believe they will, the question for me do they truly understand that? I hope they do, but another question is will the urge to impeach him a third time cloud their judgement knowing they do not have the votes in the Senate? But part of thinks if they start on the path of fixing what Trump and Musk broke and make some progress that can only strengthen their hand.
twilson117
an hour ago
Well, it seems that all you have to do is think of what the most destructive things could be done and how money could be grabbed and power held on to, to predict what Trump would do. It’s not surprising, renaming lakes and taking bribes, he’s a criminal, they’re not hard to understand.
AdLiban hour ago
Because I’ve watched him and have seen how systematic and powerful he is. It’s not obvious like the flash and dazzle crowd, but he has skillfully barred some REALLY important things and kept us MORE safe than I thought we would be. Schumer, too. As the minority they have many limitations, but he’s used the powers available to get the discharge petitions, to sequester funding, to do a ton of things that ameliorated the dangers.
choicelady
an hour ago
If you think what you see is all there is, that’s where people go wrong. There are things always going on behind the doors we don’t see.
choicelady
44 minutes ago
I am anti performance. I am very pro competence. If you want THE most effective person in the Senate – supported by Schumer – it’s Patty Murray. Hands down, no contest. And nobody pays any attention to her.
choicelady
43 minutes ago
Ad I know I was in the camp of impeach with the hope they would be able to do it as the ole third time is a charm logic but it they get their butts kicked that might be what they need to be even more stubborn than they already are.
twilson117
43 minutes ago
THE most effective legislator is Lauren Underwood.
choicelady
42 minutes ago
tw – good points.
choicelady
41 minutes ago
TW – Agreed, my thought is that Dems have two priorities and impeachment is not one of them. First, block Trump profoundly from his theft of Congress’ power and continuing his dictatorship by just doing whatever he wants. Two, we need an incredible amount of investigations to uncover more and more of Trump’s rape of children, theft from the Treasury, bribes taken in the billions, and the crimes of his whole admin. All of that preps for maybe the last year, impeaching him with the intent not to remove him but to inform voters in 2028 what abominations he and the GOP have been to get rid of them from power and bring Dems in with a mandate to protect and fix all of these things.
AdLib41 minutes ago
Jeffries JUST affirmed those two points this week. He is on the same page. IF we have the votes, impeach and CONVICT. If not, your strategy is EXACTLY what they want to do.
choicelady
40 minutes ago
And if we have the votes, we CAN do it all – ALL.
choicelady
39 minutes ago
History has already recorded Trump as the only president to be impeach twice that said history may write that is what triggered the downfall of democracy into autocracy.
twilson117
38 minutes ago
They will NOT impeach if they can’t convict. They will tear into Trump with investigations to reveal his corruption and not waste time w impeachment.’
choicelady
38 minutes ago
Tw – that may be true. Impeaching and not convicting energized his fury.
choicelady
37 minutes ago
CL – Why do you think Underwood is the most effective legislator?
AdLib36 minutes ago
If they can show through hearings that we are being wiped out economically through his corruption, no GOP will be elected again, esp. if they abetted him.
choicelady
36 minutes ago
Sadly far too many people fail to understand our form of governance is not as natural as they may think. Yes the Greeks practice it but mostly in Athens not through out Greece.
twilson117
35 minutes ago
A president will never be removed from office via impeachment. So accepting that, I think it’s best that Dems look at impeachment as a way to platform the many truths and crimes they’ve investigated in the next year and let that impeachment dominate the public for 2028.
AdLib34 minutes ago
She has passed major legislation EVEN in this Congress. She has done huge things for women’s health and maternal health and gotten them bipartisan. She is also very calmly devastating to Trump but gets little media attention. We are NOT hearing what Murray and Underwood and others are doing because we have media monopolies that block it. I used to get – ANYONE can get – daily press from legislators and executives. I knew what Obama was doing because I got daily press pieces that NEVER made it to MSM.
choicelady
33 minutes ago
She has passed 19 major bills since her start same time as AOC who has none. Never even tried w a Dem congress. Why? She didn’t want to spend the time. The bills she proffered THIS congress all died – perfect. She can say she “tried” but then never had to DO anything. She’s a phony.
choicelady
32 minutes ago
She’s the MTG of the Dem party.
choicelady
31 minutes ago
What gets me politicians on both side of the aisle talk about how great we are as a country but are willing to let people die because they can’t afford health care because it’s a profit making business.
twilson117
31 minutes ago
I keep pointing out that it’s the LEGISLATIVE BRANCH, not the INFLUENCER BRANCH.
choicelady
31 minutes ago
tw – no, not people on BOTH sides of the aisle. ONE side. ONLY one side. Dems can’t do anything until we get the numbers.
choicelady
30 minutes ago
CL – I know a little about Underwood and have appreciated her. Good to know more about her.
AdLib28 minutes ago
Being opposed to M4A is now wise. It’s an awful plan w huge costs, lots of chaos, and more expensive than ACA. We could EASILY bypass SCOTUS and make it universal by passing the public option and making Medicaid 100% federally paid. Then it’s 100% coverage w some people (unions) keeping what they have but keeping the public option open.
choicelady
28 minutes ago
Well supposedly they will have the numbers if what the media is reporting is true, with that said would you be interested in a bridge or a toll booth?
twilson117
27 minutes ago
Single payer as its supporters want is the LEAST popular of all UHC plans. We need a commission right at the start to look at OTHER plans in other countries for what works most seamlessly for us.
choicelady
27 minutes ago
TW – LOL – not at all getting your metaphors!
choicelady
27 minutes ago
CL – I read an article recently that said what is spent now by both government and people on health care is like 5 trillon and that M4A would be about 4.1 trillion. Is that accurate? Do you know those numbers?
AdLib26 minutes ago
If you mean ease of transition, a bridge. Restore ACA fully. Smooth ride!
choicelady
26 minutes ago
New York has bridges here in Mass we had toll booths but no longer now with easypass
twilson117
25 minutes ago
Yes, agreed, Stage 1 should be bolstering the ACA until we figure out how to have a national healthcare for Americans, whether M4A or some other kind of single payer.
AdLib25 minutes ago
I’ve known those numbers forever since Sheila Kuehl’s single payer. M4A gets its savings from MASSIVE cuts to health care SERVICES and jacks the cost to working families to 4 TIMES more than ACA costs. I read the bills. I am not impressed w it. Sheila did it great – and nobody now doing M4A will emulate her bill because they won’t take up a DEM bill. It was so wise and STILL unaffordable. ACA took a LOT from her. The key part was the sliding scale based on income. But other parts, too.
choicelady
23 minutes ago
What’s to figure out we know how to do it just need to kick some ass on both sides and get it done but that’s too obvious and easy.
twilson117
23 minutes ago
The specific method of delivering healthcare to all Americans is less important to me than doing the work to find whatever plan will work the best. But as we all know, most of the developed countries in the world have figured out some form of nationalized healthcare for their citizens, I don’t see any reason why we can’t.
AdLib22 minutes ago
Pharmaceutical companies
twilson117
21 minutes ago
No, tw, we don’t know how to do it. Do you want an NHS that gov’t controls that, like the VA, can be decimated by conservatives? Do you want Canada that runs it via the provinces and doesn’t cover a lot of things including meds? Do you want Norway, Denmark, Italy (that doesn’t anesthetize you for stents I just found out), or France w 30% private pay or Germany which is ACA. Which? Why?
choicelady
21 minutes ago
CL – Then the design of Kuehl’s M4A plan was unworkable. As I say, most other countries have figured it out without depriving their people of healthcare, it takes an enormous amount of determination and work over many years to actually make it happen. But that narrow swath of ignorant voters keep foisting insane people on us to take power in this country, shooting themselves and the rest of us in the foot again and again.
AdLib19 minutes ago
So the stories about health care in other countries are from the world of bait and switch?
twilson117
19 minutes ago
Do you realize that if we eliminate all private health insurance providers, every single company gets to take an accelerated write down and gets CASH back from the IRS so they can go into a new business? Do you have ANY clue how much that adds to the package costs? It’s why the steel mills closed 1970s and 80s – Bethlehem’s Lackawanna plant got almost $1 BILLION from the feds. Factor THAT in v the German plan of highly regulating them as Obama did in ACA, and you don’t PAY that.
choicelady
19 minutes ago
No – the EU and Australian plans are just all different. They are all good, but it costs us to switch, so which ones would be the easiest to maintain, to transfer your pay but keep your doc? ACA is the German model, one of the best. It keeps private insurance but REGULATED on profits and costs. You keep your docs in most cases. We also could offer the public option that would ease people into that pool and away from private coverage. Is there another system that’s even better? Let’s find out. NOBODY bothered.
choicelady
16 minutes ago
CL – Then perhaps part of a national healthcare plan requires changing tax laws to prevent healthcare companies from robbing our Treasury and that money could instead go to bolster national healthcare. When you consider the billions in profits these companies make and how that money could instead be turned around to pay for national healthcare, it seems like a plan could be conceived. But as you point out, it will need guardrails, maybe Constitutional, to prevent Repubs from coming in and destroying it then leaving the country’s health torn to pieces.
AdLib15 minutes ago
CL – I’m with you. Instead of trying to keep hammering a square peg into a round hole, we need a national long term effort, like sending a man to the moon, to come up with a national health care planb that will work.
AdLib14 minutes ago
Ad – so you propose to do away with a law that has been around since before Prohibition just cuz? For ONE business just because killing them off v regulating them is viscerally satisfying? For CA to do it, they shoved that cost to the feds, state didn’t have to pay it. But the feds would, and to suddenly stiff the insurance companies as the ONLY industry not getting the write down is politically suicidal.
choicelady
14 minutes ago
CL – And you think these companies shoudl bankrupt the country instead?
AdLib13 minutes ago
I agree – but it won’t take years. Maybe ONE to do the hospital economics of the best plans. It sure isn’t demanding doctors and orderlies alike take a 40% pay cut as Bernie did.
choicelady
13 minutes ago
Do you know if YOU go out of business you get that write down for you studio? Every company can and does.
choicelady
12 minutes ago
No, doctors have way too much paperwork and have had their income slashed enough already. We need a plan that frees them up and lets them earn a good living.
AdLib12 minutes ago
Why do you demand insurance companies go OUT of business instead of being regulated as Germany and many EU nations do? What’s the point?
choicelady
12 minutes ago
If Europe can regulate them and control profits as ACA did, why not take the easy path?
choicelady
11 minutes ago
CL – But did you know that the government passes laws that gives subsidies to some businesses like oil companies and not others? What’s the difference of singling out industries to be given money or not be given money?
AdLib10 minutes ago
Because there’s no point to it. Regulate them, they don’t get the write down.
choicelady
10 minutes ago
Insurance companies like many other incredibly wealthy companies use their money to buy the laws that protect them and enrich them. They are not the good guys, they do need some serious guardrails. Why should doctors constantly be paid less and less and insurance companies profit more and more. It is the inequity that needs to be addressed.
AdLib8 minutes ago
In risk pooling, there is a lot to be said for sharing the costs. Having ONLY the gov’t make decisions leads to UK – they decided to save money they would NO LONGER give cutting-edge meds to anyone. I would go blind. Cancer patients would not get the best treatments. That’s what the NHS did to the people of England.
choicelady
8 minutes ago
Risk pooling of insurance companies w the gov’t spreads the burden to all the parties, not just one. It’s why so many nations have partnerships.
choicelady
7 minutes ago
I’m not saying insurance companies should all go out of the healthcare business, I don’t know as much in this area as you CL but I do think the wealth and power of insurance companies is the enemy of national healthcare and they are standing in the way of all Americans receiving health care. They should not call the shots, Dems need to.
AdLib6 minutes ago
You do know that they couldn’t “buy the laws” if they are profit regulated, right? And if it’s written tightly so that kind of influence is made impossible.
choicelady
6 minutes ago
That’s what I liked about the ACA, restricting the profits insurance companies make and requiring them to spend the bigger percentage on healthcare itself. We certainly need to revisit that because the insurance companies are denying care and still making billions year after year. They don’t need to make that much, making hundreds of millions in profits should be more than sufficient to keep the industry vital.
AdLib4 minutes ago
You are looking at it as a factor BEFORE the law is created. That’s true. So how much luck would we have putting them OUT of business v keeping them IN business as partners w regulated income. Insurance companies didn’t fight ACA despite being confined to a very small profit margin. They liked the stability. Then came Trump, game over, sky’s the limit again. No, go w what can WORK.
choicelady
4 minutes ago
I think we cna agree that if a malicious person like Trump is given power, it doesn’t matter whatever laws are in place. That’s kind of a different issue, we also need guardrails to prevent the next Trump from harming national healthcare, elections, immigration, etc.
AdLib2 minutes ago
Don’t judget free market v a truly UHC plan but what kind of UHC plan v ACA , single payer, whatever. You’re acting as if we were doing this before 2010 instead of now when they got a taste of how well it worked.
choicelady
2 minutes ago
I don’t follow you. I’m not saying what you think I am.
AdLiba minute ago
If we did a full ACA, public option and all, it probably WOULD cause predators such as United Healthcare to drop out.
choicelady
a minute ago
Very interesting discussion but I need to exit have a bit of reading to do have a good weekend see you next week.
twilson117
a minute ago
Sounds good, TW! Have a great and productive weekend!
AdLiba minute ago
Good night, TW – I think I’m doing the same but for FAR less noble reasons. Snarky, hungry cats.
choicelady
a minute ago
Good night, TW!
choicelady
a few seconds ago
Them cats need their eats!
AdLiba few seconds ago
Night CL, have a great weekend!
AdLiba few seconds ago
Yes – and it’s feed them or my ankles get it. Good night, Ad! Hugs to all at your house!
choicelady
a few seconds ago
Feed them quickly!
AdLibin a few seconds
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