This morning I happened upon an article dated January 21st, 2010 from the East Valley Tribune about a meeting of religious leaders regarding immigration.

The Arizona Interfaith Network is hosting the event, which will begin with a prayer service, followed by a press conference and panel discussion. The intent is to “urge Congress to enact legislation which will protect workers and help with economic recovery, create millions of new taxpayers, keep families together, and protect the due process rights of all.”

The comments following the article drew my attention and ire.

Those commenting were spouting “Separation of Church and State!” since the religious leaders were sympathetic in regards to illegal immigration, which is an exceptionally hot topic in Arizona.

These are most likely the same people who scream that America was founded on Christian beliefs and that homosexuality is a threat to Christianity and a sin against God.

Odds are, these are the same people who shout about Liberals, Progressives and Democrats being anti-God!
Christians who demand the right to hang the Ten Commandments on state buildings, have prayer in public schools, and are anti-choice because of religious beliefs.

Christians have no problem when religious institutions step in to ban gay marriage and using religion to defend those who murder doctors, but when religion steps into the immigration debate, they scream for Separation of Church and State!

Arizona, as most states, is struggling financially and cutting services that help the poor. They’ve cut the funds that help poor families with health care, they are closing state run mental institutions casting severely mental patients into the streets, and closing state funded hospices that care for the sick and dying.

Residents support the cuts for the poor by rationalizing that most of the funds help illegal immigrants.

Christians, fueled by the likes of Bill O’Reilly, scream about the discrimination in this country against Christians, spurring the annual ‘War on Christmas’.

Christians and their Christian pundits use religion rather conveniently for their agendas, but when a group of Christian leaders hold meetings about the plight of immigrants, the same Christians shouting about discrimination because of religion, demand that their Christian leaders and churches stay out of politics.
Separation of Church and State?

Only when convenient.

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I am a retired aerospace engineer, happily married for over twenty-four years. My hobbies include blogging on PPOV, reading mystery/romance novels, playing guitar, learning the piano and writing. My husband and I love to travel in our camper/trailer, and have visited 45 states, besides having lived in France for 2 years and seeing most of Europe. "Today is the first day of the rest of your life? Well, that's true of every day but one - the day you die." American Beauty "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure." Mark Twain "A man is never more truthful than when he acknowledges himself a liar." Mark Twain

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KQµårk 死神

Cheers for alerting us to this important story. Everything is political now, everything, so that’s why when a Christian group wants to do something considered “liberal” conservatives object to it even if they are being hypocrites.

The same goes with religious groups that are trying to get Congress back to work on HCR. The Christian conservatives could care less about everyone having access to healthcare in this country.

If all Christians listened more to what Jesus actually said instead of what the Dobson types interpret him saying, all Christians would be liberal.


KQ -Since I am with one of those groups working on federal health care reform, yes, indeed – we are now pariahs becaue we believe in the Common Good. Anyone wants to see our umbrella organization’s (Faithful Reform in Health Care) Vision Statement, go to: The Vision Statement is down toward the bottom. Sign on if you like! Good analysis of the House and Senate bills there in PDF as well. Worth a look.

I help to write the Vision Statement, and I’m damned proud OF it. The right can mewl and cry about our advocacy, but they have nothing to offer. Nothing.

Our belief in the separation of church and state does not mean we cannot be engaged FROM a moral perspective on any issue. It does, absolutely, preclude us from IMPOSING our views as the single and only focus. Of course we ARE the people that support women’s right to choose, support marriage equality, support immigrant rights, all civil rights, want to call for justice on torture, want to end corporate domination of our economy, return communities to their residents, and want workers to own and manage more of the economy. We make Obama look like a softie, and the religious right hates us like poison.

But we are very careful about what we say concerning our values – we actually do understand respect for other views.

However, I have gotten waaaaay past the point where the slavering self-righteousness, the superstitious balderdash, and the rabid hate of self-anointed Christians goes unchallenged. It has got to be repudiated. For example, last week the mayor of Lancaster, CA said his was “Christian Community” and that people should not shy away from saying that. Problem is – there are Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, and non-believers who live there and pay his salary. Since when is a secular governmental entity of any religion at ALL?

I have HAD it with the self-righteous who use religion as a cover for hate and discrimination. They know nothing and promulgate a despicable form of religiosity that is so tribal and backward as to be nothing more than primitive superstition. Enough already. No time for this anymore.

The Arizona Interfaith group includes one of our state partners, The AZ Council of Churches, headed by a wonderful man with a wonderful zest for life and great humor. When I think of him standing up for immigrants as human beings and then think of these drooling rabid haters who never met a person they could not demean, I really DO think our side will prevail. Hate is just plain exhausting. It’s a darn sight nicer to be human by being humane. You sleep better, too.

Thanks for the article, Javaz. Nice to know the Good Guys are still showing their gumption about what really is right, really is moral. Let the small and frightened have their say. They really ARE their own worst enemies.

KQµårk 死神

Choicelady I have to be honest you have opened my eyes to people of faith. I still have my own beliefs that don’t really fit religion or God but now I have the utmost respect for people of faith who are using their faith to make the world better. I guess I always had that respect but you helped it reemerge in my psyche because I had become so jaded since I had dealt with the self righteous who try to use religion as a political tool or worse yet a weapon to look down on others. Thank you for that.


Good catch, j’avaz.

Separation of Church and State?
Only when convenient.

I think you have covered it right there with those words. If it does not serve their purpose, it must be evil. If it does, it is “righteous.”
Everyone knows that it is a fact that there are NO white folks needing any social services.
I have gotten help from the Tucson “Interfaith Community Services” and right now they are hurting for funds, while more people need their help. Yet the state, county, city are all cutting the funds to them.

BTY, are there any more corporate taxes that they can cut, while they raise sales tax and property tax?