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Marion On August - 20 - 2011





Two sides of the same coin. Hot air.

Update:  Actually, I learned something from this exercise that shouldn’t have surprised me, but which sparked a memory: Rush Limbaugh, expostulating about MSNBC, is positively astounded at the change in Chris Matthews.

Chris Matthews! Seems that Chris, at one time, was an acceptable substitute host for Rush’s program, whenever Rush was on a sex tourist vacation.

And then I remembered that before Chris was getting tingles up his leg from Obamalove, he was head honcho cheerleader for George W Bush. (Who remembers Chris and the “Mission Accomplished” moment?)

Or maybe Matthews is just a salesman? After all, there was a time that MSNBC tried to outflank Fox on the Right (in the wake of patriotism engendered by 9/11). I guess maybe that might explain Chris’s flag-waving fervour, but it doesn’t explain the part he played in getting television talkshow icon, Phil Donahue, the sack:-

Despite the network’s emphasis on flag waving, MSNBC showed how little it understood the Fox model when, with Griffin as MSNBC’s prime time head, it hired the liberal Phil Donahue, who’d been Griffin’s childhood idol, out of retirement in April 2002 to anchor an 8 p.m. prime-time talk show that would challenge O’Reilly. The show debuted with the highest ratings ever for an MSNBC program, attracting more than a million viewers in its first night. But within a month, the audience was cut in half. At the same time, executives expressed increasing unease about his vocal opposition to the looming war in Iraq. At a time when red-meat patriotism prevailed, Donahue booked antiwar guests like Michael Moore, Rosie O’Donnell, Susan Sarandon, and Tim Robbins. Soon the Donahue problem threatened Griffin’s job. In a tense phone conversation, Shapiro told MSNBC president Erik Sorenson to fire Griffin, but Sorenson pushed back.

“I’m not going to do that,” he told Shapiro. “No. 1: Phil’s been loyal to me for a long time. I don’t think it’s right. And No. 2: We’re short-handed. We have all this talent, and he’s the one who’s managing it.”

As a compromise, Griffin’s job was spared but he was stripped of responsibility for the show. The new producer insisted on a precise numerical balance between liberals and conservatives. Donahue’s problems only increased when Chris Matthews let it be known that he wanted Donahue off the air. Matthews was a rising force at the network, with a reported salary of $5 million. He cultivated former G.E. CEO Jack Welch and had the ear of NBC CEO Bob Wright (the two summered together on Nantucket). Matthews saw himself as MSNBC’s biggest star, and he was upset that the network was pumping significant resources into Donahue’s show. In the fall of 2002, U.S. News & World Report ran a gossip item that had Matthews saying over lunch in Washington that if Donahue stays on the air, he could bring down the network.

After the item was published, Matthews showed up at Donahue’s office and apologized. “He didn’t deny it,” Donahue remembers.

As much as it pains me to admit any agreement with Limbaugh, I also wonder what the hell happened to Chris Matthews. Like a lot of other talking heads, he started souring on Bush only when it was safe to do so. He slated the Clintons remorselessly during the Lewinsky scandal, yet visibly chokes up and constantly mistakenly refers to Bill Clinton as “the President.” He’s recently just come off a massive hard-on for Michele Bachmann, calling her his “hero.”

The Spanish have a proverb, Dime con quien andas y te dire’ quien eres – which, basically, means that you’re judge by the company you keep. In Chris’s case, as he tends to pal around with the likes of Howard Fineman and Bill Maher, I’d have no compunction in calling him a hack.

And as for the last clip shown above, you can well imagine a debate between Rush Limbaugh and his former protege’, Ed Schultz. There’d be an hour of posturing, screaming, name-calling and near-myocardial infarctioned red faces … and then the Drugster and Mr Ed would retire to the nearest bar to laugh all the way to bank, at their dittoes’ expense.

79 Responses so far.

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  1. ADONAI says:

    Chris Matthews is the reason they canceled Donahue’s show?!

    That motherfucker is DEAD to me! Unforgivable! The only real progressive voice on your whole frickin’ network!

    He was “leaning forward” before you could fucking walk! I think, for some reason, people expected lots of crazy shit on his MSNBC show like his old show.

    But that show was all about ratings. He treated his news show like an actual news show! He was Bill Moyers Lite and I loved the hell out of him. The first person to make me realize Bush was a lying manipulative tool. Only he used much more eloquent words.

  2. AlphaBitch says:

    Good Grief, Charlie AdLib! There was a pile up and I wasn’t even called? I mean, I’m busy beyond belief; but I did manage to get on to make my donation, flirt with Bito -- and then return to my own orbit for a while. Meanwhile, someone is mean to one of OUR Planetarians, and I knew nothing/nada/zip about this???/

    Not that your other “troops” (to use one of the Pup’s fave terms -- he calls my cat Sargent First Class, which is a true misnomer) didn’t rise to the occasion under Generalissima Kalima, but you can just imagine how an Alpha Bitch is just _itching for a chance to jump in!

    Sigh. Time to spend more time on the planet. Welcome, Dorothy. There’s no place like POV. And carry on, pups. You’re doing swell without me. But I’ve got your backs if you need….-AB

  3. AdLib says:

    A bit OT for this thread but just a heads up, you’ll now notice a “REPORT THIS COMMENT” link at the bottom of each comment.

    From now on, if you see an inappropriate comment, you can click on this and send us a notification. If enough people send notifications, a comment will automatically be moved to moderation so please report such a comment even if someone else already has.

    Please let us know if you like this function or if the link is too distracting and you’d rather just be able to email us.

    This is your Planet!


    • I think it’s a bad idea AdLib. It’s like flagging over at HP. Too much room for abuse. I think e-mails would be effective enough, without seeing “report this comment,” with every post. IMHO!i

      I know the regulars here would not abuse it, but maybe some of the irregulars or newbies will. Just a thought.

      • AdLib says:

        Thanks KT and thanks to all for your feedback!

        Just to affirm what Kalima mentioned, reporting comments can’t be abused here like the flagging at HP. Being a massive, impersonal site, HP was an ideal place for abuse.

        Being more of a familiar community here, it’s not as viable for people to abuse the system. The function also has safeguards that prevent people from abusing it.

        FYI, we had this function in place here for about a year before removing it due to a technical conflict (that is no longer an issue) and it was never abused nor an issue.

      • Kalima says:

        We’ve got it covered KT, we can see who is doing it. Only serious violations would be considered, so no, it’s nothing like HP at all. You missed the comment here yesterday, we were all busy, so it was up long enough for members to reply and we missed it for a short time. This function will help Admin to know about a problem directly. I see no difficulty with making our job a little easier, do you?

        If someone is just up to mischief, the reported comment can be restored by Admin immediately.

    • Emerald1943 says:

      I noticed it first thing this morning! 🙂
      Good idea! But would it be less distracting to place it a bit lower, perhaps on the same line with the “reply” button but all the way to the right? It does kinda’ stick out.

      • AdLib says:

        Emerald, I agree, I do think it was sticking out a bit. I changed the appearance to soften it, see what you think.

        As a programming limitation, it’s an issue to place it on the same line as another function, each function needs it’s own line.

        Intuitively, it does seem to make sense to have it directly beneath a comment since, if one was to come upon an outrageously offensive comment, when one finishes reading it the Report link would be right there.

    • bito says:

      If I may add, there seems that there was a bit of a “set-to” on this post and I for one admire all our members for their diligence on maintaining the civility, decorum and attempting to keep the discussion on the topic without personal aspersions ! We are grateful for so many good and faithful members!

      Good job Planeteers! This is your site!

      Oh, yeah, what Adlib says! This is your Planet!

      • choicelady says:

        Yeah -- we were freaking cool. Almost sorry the thread is gone we were so wonderful.


        I just hope the guy (I’m making that presumption but can’t say why -- sorry to the men here) read our stuff before it all departed.

        I am rather horrified that “principled discussion” on issues boils down to “YOU SUCK!” Wow. How helpful…

        AdLib -- I’m not sure we need a “report” button -- Kalima was right on top of it, and no feelings were harmed in the making of this thread. It was startling, but with some careful watching, it’s not always a bad thing to have flameouts join us now and then to remind us why this site is so important and dear to us all.

        I agree with KT -- it is too “huffpo” for us.

        • Emerald1943 says:

          Good morning, CL! I feel your pain! That might have been one of my better posts, and no one got a chance to read it! And we all were being so logical and reasonable! What a bummer!

          I personally liked the “You are a BIG FAT LIAR” part! Obviously, this disgusting troll could not have had any idea of the physical attributes of the individual he/she was attacking! This is 5 year old playground taunting at its best!

          OTOH, it does give us a glimpse into the mind of a bonafide firebagger. A glimpse is all we need! 🙂

          BTW, you might want to have that cough checked out! 🙂

          ADDENDUM: Just an afterthought…what about a little flag icon down at the bottom? My email program will only allow me to send a message if I leave PPOV to do it. I would prefer a way to send the message without leaving if it’s possible. What do you all think?

      • AdLib says:

        Seconded! Sometimes, only when there’s conflict will the true character of people become affirmed or exposed.

        This was just an infantile troll but it did provide such an opportunity and once again, the folks here distinguished themselves with the class and principles we may have come to expect around here but which I’ve never seen elsewhere.

        Cheers to our amazing Planeteers!

    • Chernynkaya says:

      Aw, heck. I never noticed that!

  4. AdLib says:

    So, what’s all this then?


  5. Kalima says:

    Sorry to everyone concerned, I couldn’t let that comment stay, it’s against our ToU, so I hope that no one will be offended if I remove all the replies too. Sorry about this, lunch time so I missed it.

    • choicelady says:

      Oh no -- my brilliant REPLY is gone? How can I endure??? Of course without the original scream, the reply makes NO sense at all.

      It is deeply puzzling to me to learn how many people think “you SUCK” passes for bold, progressive thought. Or that telling people not to vote thereby deeply harming the people you claim to love also passes for commitment to progressive politics.

      And to focus on poor Marion whose post got lost in all this -- yes, the Wavering of Chris Matthews is pretty puzzling but is an interesting spectator sport.

      • Matthews was once asked if he were a liberal or a conservative. His answer was, “I’m a skeptic.” I think that pretty much sums up where he is coming from. I do think he gets a little overzealous at times.

        • choicelady says:

          I’d not mind if there were some consistency. And if he would let people ANSWER the questions he asks, and if he did not spit so much…

          • Emerald1943 says:

            CL, that is the MOST irritating thing about Chris! When he asks a question and the guest begins to answer, Chris fires back with a diatribe and several more questions that are simply paraphrased versions of the first one! And if the guest tries to continue, Chris will always talk over the top, getting louder as he does! This is a most annoying pattern in his interviews! Makes me nuts…and besides, it’s just plain rude! That’s what my grandma taught me! 🙂

          • i think he sees it as part of his job. To goad his guest/s into saying what they really mean, instead of the usual spin many of his guests spout. That’s why he interrupts so much. As soon as he smells spin, he interrupts, usually to ask the question again. It can be annoying at times.

    • Chernynkaya says:

      The cavalry--yay! Hi my friend, and please feel free to delete my comment too. Sorry if we interrupted your lunch. I hope it was yummy! (Just got a cute image in my mind of you in your cowboy boots, sabre, on horseback…in sweats!) 😆

      • Kalima says:

        My horse has a cold and a fever, so I used my broom. You are correct about everything but the cowboy boots, I was wearing geta. 😉

        • Emerald1943 says:

          Hey Kalima, I’ve never seen a horse sneeze before! A most instructive video! LMAO

          Hope you and the horse are feeling better! 🙂

        • Chernynkaya says:

          Oh, poor horse. But the broom doesn’t suit you at all--unless you ride it like Samantha on “Bewitched” side-saddle. I can see that: Kalima banishing trolls with a twinkle in her eye and a twitch in her nose!

          • Kalima says:

            😆 Cher, that would be a rather red nose I’m afraid. If only I could find that darned magic wand, I’m sure it’s around here somewhere unless one of the felines took it somewhere.

            Look for this reply above, the gremlins are in town it seems. 😀

            Btw, Elvis is feeling awfully neglected tonight. Come on everyone, one Elvis song on the music thread before you go to bed please?

            • Kalima says:

              Bless you my child. 😀

              I like your grandparent’s shtetl one much better, although nothing looks in the least scholarly about my sweat drenched sweats right now. *sniff sniff*

            • Chernynkaya says:

              I hate summer colds! They are somehow worse. My sympathies! Anyway, there is a saying in my grandparents’ shtetl that only a scholar gets summer colds. Of course that shtetl was probably razed by Cossacks after they left, so I don’t know how reliable that adage is--but I’m sticking with it!

            • Kalima says:

              Oh that poor horse. No, a summer cold. There is a joke in Japan that only stupid people catch summer colds, now before you all nod at once, this is something the hubby brought back from his last trip out of Tokyo. I would have preferred a box of dark chocolates myself. 🙁

              Elvis thanks you Cher. 🙂

            • Chernynkaya says:

              Your wish is my command, M’lady.

            • Chernynkaya says:

              Hay fever?

    • Khirad says:

      Well, we were in the middle of a hugfest, but if you must. 😛

      • Kalima says:

        Just doing my job and keeping the peace. I missed a hug fest? 🙁

        • Emerald1943 says:

          Yes you did miss a hug fest! It freaked me out, though, when I saw that “moderation” thing above my defense of Dorothy! I’ve never been moderated here before!

          I’m glad I saw your comment, Kalima! Now I understand! Thanks for all you do! This is such a special place and you all are doing a wonderful job of maintaining your standards! Keep up the good work!

  6. KQuark says:

    Politically Mathews reminds me of my father a bit without the big head of course. My father is a very humble man, much humbler than I am and should be. Mathews like my father are just as afraid of the far left as they are of the far right. Sure my father appreciates all that Dems have done, especially in the past, for regular people but he’s no socialist even though he’s a union man. Like my father, Mathews seems to have evolved on race issues throughout his life which is no small feat for my father especially considering the era he grew up in to be honest.

    IDK if he pals around with the AOLHP crowd, with the exception of Fineman, as much as you say. I saw Maher on his show a couple times and he laughed at some of the stupid things Maher said, so what? Mathews has several times said Dems are not going to get a president much more progressive than Obama because he knows views all sides in this country unlike the others on MSNBC. I think other MSNBC types have a much closer relationship with AOLHP. In fact you are being self contradictory when you say Mathews likes Clinton and the AOLHP crowd.

  7. Sabreen60 says:

    Marion, I with you on this one. I have completely soured on MSNBC. I have said for the last couple of years that Chris blows with the wind. Truthfully, I don’t know where he stands on most issues. He’s pretty wishy washy. Ed was crossed off my book before the 2010 elections. I understand he said that the President should be a one-term President if he didn’t go to Wisconsin. It’s dumb comments like this one that causes problems. It seems that the MSM including MSNBC is into bashing the President. We had this discussion here the other day and came to the conclusion that the media wants a horse race in 2012 to boost ratings and that’s their primary goal.

  8. Emerald1943 says:

    Chris Matthews makes me nuts! When he gets on a roll, he can excoriate a rethug opponent with the best of them. But let the subject matter be Michelle Bachmann or Sarah Palin and he’s drooling all over his desk! I’m not saying this is necessarily a sexist thing, but he does let his rethug roots show, and blathering on about how much he “admires” either one of these dingbats makes me ill!

    Ed is obviously not in the same ballpark with the rest of the MSNBC lineup. He shows a lack of education on a regular basis with his over-the-top rhetoric. I will give him credit for keeping the Wisconsin/labor rights issue on the front burner. However, his bashing of the President is NOT helpful. I wish he would take his “passion” and use it to help get the President re-elected instead of playing to the firebaggers.

    Rush deserves no comment. He is irrelevant.

    • Khirad says:

      Indeed, that’s more or less where I am too. Matthews is annoying but when he has a moment it’s great. He himself has said he’s moved more left over the years, but when it comes to Michele and Sarah…

      Ed… man, there’s passion, and then there’s ‘giving me a headache’. Tone it down, I worry about your blood pressure, man.

  9. Dorothy Rissman says:

    I cannot even stand to look at Ed. His hatefulness and anger are overwhelming. I just learned recently, through a video, that just before the 2010 elections, he told the 99ers to vote for the republican as a way of punishing the dems for not taking care of the 99ers. Whoa! You gotta admit that is pretty insane.

    He and rush get that ugly look on their faces and you can tell they are near a breaking point. I have seen Ed kick desks and throw things on his show. I never watch him anymore.

    I did not know the history of Chris. Tweety has always been completely unpredictable. I stopped watching him about a year ago, because he had too many repugs on. He thinks Mark Halperin is a great guy and a genius. Wow! Frankly, I have given up on MSNBC except for Rev. Al. I at least turn on his show every week day, even if I do not watch it, because I want to keep his numbers up.

    Thanks for all of this insight.

    • KQuark says:

      FYI this is exactly what Ed said once. I could not find the 99er reference.

      And I’m announcing today, I’m not going to vote in the midterms. I’m not going to do it. You can say it’s un-American. No, it’s rather revolutionary is what it is. I’m at that point. I’m checking out. I’m checking out of the Democrats because they are proving to me that they don’t know how to handle these big babies over on the right that say no. You know what you do? You get in the driver’s seat, you hit the throttle, and you run over them.

      Ironically it was AOLHP’s own Bob Cesca how called him out on his counterproductive BS.


      Considering 2000 and now 2010 a “no vote” is passively enabling Republicans to get into office.

    • KQuark says:

      To me Ed is very random. He supports the president on Libya and then keeps on pining for him to intervene on intrastate politics. Only times when Democratic presidents have really intervened with states is when their laws attempt to cross federal lines and the president did that with the anti-immigration laws.

      I’ve said before Obama made a mistake when he said once or twice he would cross picket lines. He’s management as president when it comes do government workers. Hilda Solis is doing more for unions than any Labor Secretary has been in a few decades. That’s the point person on labor issues along with Dems in Congress.

      I’ve said recently and before the president needs to talk better and more about unions’ and the need for people to be able to collectively bargain in general.

    • Emerald1943 says:

      OMG! I’ve never been “moderated” before at PPOV!

    • Emerald1943 says:

      Dorothy, ditto to what Cher just posted! Please do not let this rude person affect your opinion of PPOV!

    • Chernynkaya says:

      Dorothy as a fellow site member, I just want you to know that the type of rude and uncivil response you got from one poster below violates the rules of the site and this is very rare. I hope you don’t get the mistaken impression that this is typical. It’s fine to disagree but that kind of attack is unacceptable.

      • Dorothy Rissman says:

        Chernynkaya, thank you for responding. I ave the video of ed doing exactly what I said at my finger tips. I will not try to argue, but I think it is important that the angry person understands that I did not make it up.

        Again, thanks. dr

        • Dorothy Rissman says:

          Chernynkaya, I see that others are aware of what Ed did. So I will just let it go. I did not intend to cause a big ruckus.

          • AdLib says:

            Dorothy, thank you for your patience with that inappropriate comment that was made to you. That comment and the party who made it have been removed from the site in accordance with our Terms of Use.

            Disagreements are welcome at The Planet but all members are required to show a modicum of respect to each other so we can have thoughtful and productive discussions instead of Thunderdome matches.

            Sometimes members can cross the line in a heated debate, we try to err on the side of freedom of expression but personal attacks are not allowed (and serve no constructive purpose).

            Our Terms do explain that we have a zero tolerance for trolls and as we just have, we will never hesitate to apply it.

            Once again, sorry for that comment and thank you so much for participating in and being a member at The Planet!

          • Kalima says:

            Dorothy, the poster broke the rules in our Terms of Use. We didn’t see it in time and I’m very sorry about that, and welcome to The Planet.

            • Dorothy Rissman says:

              Thanks to all of you. I have to admit I have learned to be much tougher since 2008 when it comes to Obama. This truly does seem to be a great place.

              It is over. I am sure I will see all of you tomorrow. Rest well. We still have many battles to fight.

          • Khirad says:

            ‘Twas not you.

          • Chernynkaya says:

            Dorothy, you did nothing wrong at all!

            • Dorothy Rissman says:

              Thanks for the support. Perhaps I was too aggressive in my criticism of ed, but he constantly crosses the line in terms of how he talks about the president.

        • Emerald1943 says:

          Dorothy, it probably would not matter if you had 100 videos. This person obviously is NOT OPEN to other points of view! Don’t let it bother you! 🙂

    • jkkFL says:

      What Khirad, c’lady and Sabreen said.

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