Though there aren’t many states and delegates at stake tonight, the results in Michigan tonight could make a real impact on the GOP race in particular. If Trump wins strongly, the anti-Trump effort suffers a fatal blow. If Kasich doesn’t win or have a strong showing, his viability evaporates. Rubio’s on a downward slide and a big loss on Michigan would accelerate that and trim his chances to survive Florida.
On the Dem side, Hillary is expected to win by a big margin in Michigan so there could be a surprise there or a just a confirmation of her strength.
Post your thoughts, observations and projections on the night right here!
And the beat goes on…
Someone will be nominated; someone will be elected.
Whoever is elected will be hated by half the population.
Between the conventions and the election will be an outbreak of invective and fulmination. Having a sense of humor would be useful.
The next four years will be interesting.
This year should have been no surprise.
The two parties – both an amalgam of factions antagonistic to each other – had no one of any stature to run. They still do not.
Sanders is not a Democrat; Trump is not GOP. They, both, saw an opportunity and took it.
Both are “anti establishment” insisting they will answer questions that have been asked and answered.
It will be interesting to see how they deal with the organization that they purportedly belong to. The two parties are the Washington establishment.
If Sanders wins, he will make his peace with the party. At the end of the day, he a member of the Establishment.
So will Trump, as he is a member of the Establishment.
All that applies to Clinton, if she is nominated.
In the new year, after the election, expect a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth, jumping up and down, hollering “Oh my God”. It will, at the end of the day, amount to two bald men fighting over a comb. All that will go on for a while; but it subside.
But, the great mass of ordinary people do not care – they hardly bother to vote – and Washington, for them, can do whatever it does. Life will go on. It always does.
There is a lot of media hype nowadays. 24/7 cable; the internet with all the news websites, opinion websites, blogs, etc, etc.
A lot of the news is essentially un-sourced; opinion websites are full of hyperventilating rhetoric and invective. Comments frequently amount to little more than anonymous poison pen letters.
it is like an anvil chorus.
But, there are a lot fewer reporters, a lot fewer newspapers. There are entire subjects that are missed: Congress slighted; foreign news is slighted; etc.
Planetpov is a cut above the average political website. It is one of two that I post comments on.
Thank you, agrippa. We have tried hard to keep The Planet running on the principles we started with almost 7 years ago, and it’s always encouraging to hear positive words from our members.
You succeed in living up to those principals. Kudos
We couldn’t have done it without the passionate, witty and honest contributions of our members. Some gone but never forgotten. Some who have moved on, and some who are fortunately still with us. We are proud of our membership, and proud of The Planet too.
A little OT but this is hilarious and shows what “utter” idiots politicians can be when they celebrate deregulation:
Wow, another profit scheme no doubt, somebody is trying to get a law passed so that big corporations don’t have to waste money pasteurizing milk. Republicans are going to destroy the entire planet if we don’t put them in check.
Exactly, monica! This story is funny to me though, it would be like Rick Snyder having to drink Flint water after it became uncontaminated then claiming his illness was unrelated.
Reality keeps proving Republican policies too be poisonous yet they fight to ignore reality at every turn.
Well I suppose they aren’t the most intelligent among the population. Why would they experiment on themselves? They usually try to use their constituents when they want to experiment for their oligarch handlers. This “Government” is getting worse and worse and the population has been so turned off with corrupt elections that nowadays republicans can run just about anybody and win. Really sad to watch.
I am convinced that today’s GOP want’s a rather dumb president. With a dunce in the white house (GW Bush), they can control him much easier than a smart one.
I really do believe this.
Ha! Denial of science can be downright dangerous sometimes. Maybe they were all lactose intolerant? They’re intolerant of just about everything else! 😉
Maybe they’re LackBrains Intolerant?
But that would mean they’re intolerant of themselves. 😉
Exactly! Isn’t that what we’re witnessing in this GOP Civil War?
They’re in a fierce battle of wits with no ammunition!
The only hope we have for this election (and “hope” in this case comes from a lifetime progressive liberal democrat voter who is extremely disenchanted, not just with Hillary Clinton, but with responses I’ve gotten from my own State’s elected officials and congresscritters, both Dem & GOP) is IF we get high voter turn-out.
I have faith that the silent voices out there belong to an educated block of millennial voters. Do your civic duties. If you believe America is disintegrating, just stay home on election day and watch it slide further. If your only investment is the time it takes to read a little and then cast a ballot, your ROI will be well worth it. Stay home -and you can write America’s obituary.
We are at a crossroads, the likes of which I haven’t seen since I cast my first ballot for Carter as POTUS in 1980. Unless HRC starts speaking a language I understand, and articulating a vision for our nation’s future which I can get with, I will vote independent in this next election.
All this rancor, back & forth, “he said/she said” is a dog ‘n pony show. Distractions. Most of us can look past it. We may be tempted to enter the fray and engage, perhaps out of boredom. Between now and November/2016, we are all responsible for informing ourselves.
The only way we, as a nation, can sink low enough to elect a man like Trump POTUS, is if voters stay away from the polls in November. Heaven help us if that becomes the case.
I get the feeling that the cynical power elite have put Trump out in front of the American People as a flashpoint of sorts ->to identify who is unhappy, and quantify it. How are these (unhappy) people demonstrating their displeasure? What is their potential for acting on their (perceived/real) unhappiness and to what degree?
Those who run our mass media (“news”) have been incredibly successful at directing the messages and creating discord. Their methods have served them well, but they better watch out. What they’ve sewn can bear rotten crops. Trump the Flashpoint can quickly become Trump the Bonfire.
This is a very interesting election, or could be. The baby boom generation is passing on and the younger people will have to earn their spurs. The baby boom generation is the Establishment ( having once been “anti establishment”). The baton is being passed.
Implied in this post is the notion that the younger people will have choice between a left wing savior ( Sanders) and right wing savior ( Trump). If Sanders is nominated.
Clinton is just about the last of the baby boomers; an experienced politician in an election fraught with anti politician. But, there is no such thing as an “anti politician”, and there is no savior. You have mere mortals; that is all that you have.
There is, down the road from the WH, two bodies of 535 ( 435 and 100) who are one third of the Government. None of those 535 take orders from the WH.
Agrippa, which is why a big defeat for Trump in the GE could not only bring the Dems back in control of The Senate and who knows, maybe even the House, but also cementing the SCOTUS on the Progressive side with one but perhaps more new jurists.
Nothing will steer the nation back on the right track than a Progressive SCOTUS so even if a Dem President is still blocked by Tepubs in Congress, change will still be happening for the better.
I hope that you are correct.
The two factions of the Democratic Party have to come together for the common good.
GOTV is very necessary.
GOTV is necessary for off year elections. Too many people disremember those.
Seymoreclearly, you have hit the nail on the head that the only way for the nation to move forward and address many of the problems and inequities plaguing it is to have enthusiastic voter turnout in Nov and assure that a fascist-echoing demagogue in the form of Trump is roundly thrashed (along with Repubs in Congress and locally).
So while Dems may get a bit upset at the opponent of their favored candidate, Dems do need to see the big picture and the vast difference there would be if Trump was to win the Presidency or if either Dem did.
Where Hillary and Bernie are on the issues is nearly identical, compared to the bigotry and hatefulness that are the only real policies of the party of Trump.
I do have confidence that the GOTV efforts will be very successful for Dems in Nov.. There is no greater motivation than Trump as the Repub nom to whip up huge enthusiasm to vote for women, Latinos, African Americans, students, etc.
Trump has insulted and is threatening to harm the majority of voters, there couldn’t be a better catalyst to create a big Dem turnout than this looming threat.
A lot of people do not like Hillary Clinton. I had had enough of the Clintons in 2000; but, they are still around. I guess that it was too much to ask to expect them to retire. I wanted new people. I guess that the Democratic Party does not have any. Sanders is not a Democrat.
It will be a while before this is sorted out, and someone will be nominated.
If it is Sanders vs Trump it will mean both candidates will know nothing of foreign policy and both will be non party. In either case, a person who will sort those people out will be elected; and, save the country from ________ at the same time.
No one is this field is a fit replacement for PBO.
It is a consequence of people not caring about or hating politics, not bothering to learn about it, not bothering to vote.
I think’s it’s a pretty safe bet to say that Sanders probably knows quite a bit more than Trump does, about foreign affairs and policy. Trump seems to know next to nothing. I doubt he could find Syria on a map, or tell you where Libya is.
I’ve got to say that in last nights debate, Bernie was shameful in his efforts to overwhelm Clinton. In fact he looked like the Dem version of Trump.
These recent actions (along with many others) are extremely unbecoming and causes me to really take a far more critical look at him. I began being a big fan of his, but as time goes by…
PollyTics, you might be a Hillary supporter, but to compare Bernie Sanders to Trump is the only really shameful thing here. You are entitled to your opinion but comparing Bernie to Trump just hits a new low for me. Hillary needs your support to vote for her, not to help her drag Bernie through the mud. She is doing a stellar job of that herself. So Hillary can slur Bernie, but Bernie can’t tell the truth about Hillary? Very disappointing, and also dishonest in my opinion. No wonder that so many people are turning away from her.
Kalima, calling my observation that Bernie Sanders was/has been behaving like Trump in debate, is but an opinion…my opinion and one that comes from a prior fan.
Merely because you may disagree with the gist of what I say is hardly reason to resort to claiming I am somehow dragging Bernie thru the mud or that my opinion is in some way “shameful”. This all seems to be a bit hyperbolic.
To also elude that I am somehow “disappointing” merely because of your opposing view seems a bit much. It would appear that in watching this election, we are viewing events quite differently, but is that any reason to take pot shots at those with whom you disagree? The very nature of debate is to consider opposing views and then discuss…
I have found Bernie to have been a fascinating and interesting Senator now and prior to his running for President, however in his run I have found a number of things that I have found disturbing and believe his promise for a fair, snipe free and substantive debate to be a bit lacking. In fact, as I originally stated, I have found him to have become quite a bully and in last nights debate, his performance was stunningly rude…much like Trump. It seems that his advisors might be chiding him on to be “tougher” and bully-like. If that is the case, I think it is a bad choice overall.
Luckily, the Democrats have stuck to the higher road for the most part during these primaries..and for that we all should feel proud (and relieved)!
Since when is comparing an uncouth, ignorant, racist abomination with a Dem candidate not shameful? I will not take back that word because that’s how I feel about it. Comparing any Dem to a GOP candidate is hitting below the belt. The only hyperbole here would be your claim that Bernie is behaving like Trump. You conveniently fail to remember that Hillary has been slurring Bernie from day one. Or that Hillary pulled out all the stops and threw the kitchen sink at Obama in 2008′.
It’s a debate. Does Bernie have to handle Hillary with kid gloves because she is a woman? If so, she should not be running for the office of the President of the United States.
I can’t vote in your elections because I am not an American, and don’t live there. As an outsider I tend to see things differently. Therefore your comparison of Bernie Sanders to Trump was insulting in my opinion.
My reply to you had nothing to do with not being able to have a conversation with someone who has a different opinion, I’m an adult. It had everything to do with the comparison and the reason for it.
I’m sorry, I seemed to have you confused with someone who actually wanted fair discourse and debate.
I see that insulting Bernie wasn’t quite enough for one night. Ah well…
If you are comparing Sanders behavior at debates, with Trump’s dick waving and misogyny, his ultra hawkish bluster, and xenophobia, then you are being disingenuous, at best.
Why would you do that? These are presidential debates and emotions run high for all the candidates. Bernie’s behavior has been one of a mature adult with serious issues to face. Comparing a man like that, to a spoiled rotten man-child is absurd.
It’s not a matter of mere opinion. It is simple and honest observation, and anybody who isn’t shilling for another candidate (underhandedly, often) knows this is true.
These are not high school debates, with candidates in training. This is the NFL baby!
Please describe, in detail, how Sanders’s behavior in that debate comes anyway close to Trump’s behavior. Let’s see some examples, some particular instances.
Hi Pollytics. I think it is the nature of competition in a primary, the strong desire for a favored candidate to win, that can make one seize upon and exaggerate the negativity of an opponent in a primary to promote their candidate.
I don’t claim myself to be innocent of this, it’s a tricky thing to avoid.
I would just say that it is more accurate IMO to recognize that Hillary interrupts Bernie in debates and Bernie interrupts Hillary. I don’t believe in double standards. Supporters of each candidate may feel that the way the other interrupted their candidate was outrageous and/or disrespectful but debates are sometimes arguments that get heated and one may want to talk over or cut off the other. Hillary has done it countless times as has Bernie, the gender of either one should not matter when they do so if one truly believes in equality.
And I wouldn’t agree that either is fairly compared to Donald Trump simply because they tried to cut off the other in a heated exchange, that is quite an exaggeration.
Donald Trump has literally insulted women for breast feeding in public, for the appearance of their face, he’s attacked women reporters for being tough On him because they have periods, has accused Latino women of being drug dealers and criminals, has encouraged the physical abuse of black women protesters at his rallies, and so much more.
Could one fairly paint Bernie Sanders as identical to Trump’s awful misogyny simply because he Abruptly cut off his opponent in a debate?
It’s not even apples and oranges, there is no fair comparison between Sanders and Trump at all if you consider the above.
I appreciate that you disliked how Bernie dealt with Hillary in the debate. In this debate and subsequent radio ads, I disliked that Hillary was misleading voters about Bernie’s support for the auto bailout. As a Bernie supporter, there have been other things she’s said in the campaign and debates that I’ve viewed as unfair and untrue that I have disliked but I would never compare her to the awful and disgusting stain on politics that is Donald Trump.
My bottom line is this, Dems who support Hillary or Bernie have to appreciate that the Dem primary is being contested by two responsible and conscientious adults, unlike the Repubs. They debate on issues, not penis size or crass insults. Neither is evil, Bernie is not a racist or mysoginist (his brilliant wife is his closest partner in his campaign), Hillary is not an ideologue or a corporate puppet.
Neither one is like Donald Trump nor is either one anything but a supporter of Democrats and Democratic values.
Things can get heated and taken too hard in a primary but it’s important to keep an eye on November, remembering that Dems will need to come together to win and defeat Trump then and demonizing either candidate is neither fair nor productive in supporting one’s favored candidate (if the end game is to get the other half of Dems supporting the other candidate to come around to supporting the one who wins the nom, exaggerating negativity cuts against that and undermines their support of the eventual candidate).
AP, CNN, MSNBC, AlJazeera all call it for Sanders!!!! Yay!!! GO BERNIE!!
Sanders is projected to win Michigan’s Democratic primary
Oops! Forgot to say yay. YAY!!
Very cool and a real upset, Kalima! To be honest, I thought it was kind of a lock for Hillary. I must say, I didn’t like her dishonesty on claiming Bernie opposed the auto bailout when he voted for it as a separate bill but opposed TARP for bailing out banks but not Americans.
Apparently, the majority of Michigan Dems didn’t buy that slur on Bernie.
This certainly upset her apple cart. Hillary and her “problem with honesty/dishonesty” is taking its toll. No one expected it, and it was touch and go for Bernie at times, but he did it. Couldn’t be happier for him. Well done Michigan!!
I heard one pundit say that the only candidate that has worse ratings on honesty…is Trump! So if she wins the nom, he would be the ideal candidate for her to beat.
Some people think that it’s fine when Hillary slurs Bernie, but when Bernie hits the mark about Hillary, that’s going over the top. Amazing how that works. Doesn’t work for me though. This is not a beauty pageant where contestants are expected to say cute things. This will decide who leads the U.S. next year, and whose policies will lead America forwards instead of letting it get bogged down in the status quo after President Obama leaves office.
Hillary can take care of herself and knows how to fight dirty. She’s done a good job of it so far. Unfortunately it’s not working out that well for her.
Whatever the outcome, Bernie Sanders has proven himself to be a serious and formidable candidate that millions of people believe in and support, and contrary to some Dems referring to him as a “nuisance candidate”, people welcomed what he had to say with open hearts and minds. Can’t say the same about Hillary.
Wow! This is a huge victory! Hillary was ahead by double digits in polls, this is a big boost for Bernie and a big setback for Hillary.
Nate Silver called it the biggest miss in history for Presidential primary polling. Wow.
Heck even god has an off day now and than…
72% in MI, Bernie 50% and Hillary 47%.
81% and Bernie’s got the same lead!
Ma, to see which areas within the state are voting, hover the cursor over the one you want and the results for that county will come up (this is on the HP maps)
Thanks PPO! Going right over there. BRB!
Wow, she’s not beating him by very much in Detroit and Flint. I’m sure she thought she would run away with that vote. It appears she’s doing better in Wayne Country.
Vote tightening in Michigan, Bernie’s lead has been cut. I sure hope his lead holds and he pulls this out. Okay, I’m biting my nails now.
bernie’s opened out to 50% – 48. Keep biting!
Yep, just saw that, got my toes crossed now, fingers too…it’s kind of hard to bite your nails with your fingers crossed though. 🙂
Watching this is so much better:
It’s funny to shut the door after the horse has bolted, but the GOP lost an opportunity to fix, er, adjust the results by not introducing proportional representation, where the lowest scoring drops out and their votes are reallocated as per the preferences of the voters. this might have helped the poor dears to build up a single opponent to the FranckenDrumpf and overtake the less–than-50% leads he’s winning by. Oh dear, aw shucks!
Typical Republican mentality, always falling on the side of less representational democracy and in this case, hoping this would be the formula to arrange a coronation for the most moneyed establishment candidate but watching how it is rocketing a destructive outsider into the nom.
Has the precincts in Detroit and Flint been counted yet?
HP has Genesee County, where Flint is: Trump leading 40.3, Cruz 25.6, Kasich 20.5, Rubio 9.
Wayne County ( Detroit): Trump 37.2, Kasich 31.9, Cruz 18.7, Rubio 8.4 45% Counted.
Wow, Rubio has been trounced. Bye, Bye Marco!
Toasted Marshmallow comes to mind!
I think that we have a very low quality field of candidates for both parties. The Democrats have only Clinton and Sanders. Clinton has very high negatives and Sanders is not a Democrat.
I wanted to see the Clintons retire from public life; but, I guess that they are too young for that. I was hoping for someone better; but, there really is not. You deal with what you have.
The GOP is worse; they had another “clown car”. That bunch is, literally, beyond words. Very sad.
Both Parties could have and should have done better.
I am glad that we had PBO for President for eight years. Eight years of calm and rational leadership; even keel all the way. Of course, he was hated by the right as a ___________ ( name the insult) and hated by the left as a ______ ( name the insult). He can handle that and so can I.
I am glad he was there.
Of course there is nothing unusual about the USA electing ciphers ( or worse) as President. We have survived them all; we will survive whatever cipher is elected in November.
People either do not care about or hate politics. That attitude has consequences.
I believe we can thank the media for that Agrippa, their bias is turning voters off. That could be their plan, you know the lower the voter turnout the more likely republicans win.
At BHO’s last & final SOTU address, did you see the sour pusses on our military brass? Sheesh, if looks could kill.
GWB’s Administration was so effective at turning us into perpetual warmongers. Why has it become a sin, somehow unpatriotic, to desire peace?
We cheer for our soldiers and mouth words like, “Thanks for your service to our country!” without truly quantifying the cost to our nation and those soldiers.
I watched a very good film titled “Bravetown” -look it up, I think 2014. A microcosm of what America has become.
Then watch “Seven Days In May” from 1963 or ’64. Scary. Prophetic.