Today, a Grand Jury in New York declared “No True Bill”, that is, a finding that there is not probable cause for believing a crime was committed by NYPD Officer Daniel Pantaleo, who was filmed choking an unarmed and helpless black man, Eric Garner to death. The coroner declared Garner’s death a homicide, meaning the officer did murder him but despite that and live video evidence of the murder, the grand jury somehow came to this outrageous decision.
Coming on the heels of the grand jury decision in St. Louis refusing to indict Officer Darren Wilson for his killing of an unarmed black teenager, Michael Brown, this is a one-two punch to many Americans’ belief in our policing and justice system…and an implicit threat to black man all over this country.
In the span of nine short days, America has been slapped in the face by the reality that in America, police have the authority to kill poor black men without fear of consequence or retribution.
It is outrageous to have to admit but the evidence is overwhelming. Here’s a thought provoking chart from an article at Daily Kos:
The police keep very accurate records of policemen who are shot but despite being in the business of law enforcement and protecting citizens, they do not keep a record of the citizens they shoot and kill. So, Americans have no clear records of just how many of their fellow citizens, primarily poor black citizens, have been killed by police year in and year out…and how easy it is for them to get away with most of these wrongful killings.
When the protests in Ferguson over the killing of Michael Brown and the shielding of Officer Darren Wilson began, America saw how militarized and brutal the Ferguson Police force was. Thinking back to the days of the Occupy Wall Street protests, we can remember how militarized, coordinated and ruthless many police forces around the nation have become as well.
It is a terrible thing to see our police forces evolve into the militarized and Borg-like troops that they have become, especially when the Constitutional right of citizens to protest is exercised. However, to have police oppression and violence protected by courts that refuse to find nearly any police misconduct against citizens illegal, including murder and especially the murder of black men, is setting up a pressure cooker that will someday explode if the pressure isn’t relieved.
It is one thing to be a black man and fear the police but it is another more intimidating thing to see the justice system protect and insulate the police from any harm when they murder unarmed black men.
What should a young black man in Missouri, New York or a variety of big cities and small towns across America think when they’re walking down the street and see a police car pulling up to them? That there is nothing to worry about? Or that if they say or do anything at all that the police could even interpret in a slight way as being a threat, they could be arrested, beaten or even killed?
Black parents have often explained about “The Talk” they have to have with their young sons along the way, about how they need to act towards policemen to try best to protect themselves from police abuse. It’s awful that parents need to have such a talk with their kids and just as awful that they have to act in such a way when dealing with police to avoid being arrested or harmed.
How’s this for example, video of a black man stopped for questioning by police for the “suspicious” activity of walking with his hands in his pockets on a frigid day:
And let’s not forget what happens if you’re a black woman walking on the shoulder of a Los Angeles freeway:
By the way, the most recent article I could find on this CHP beating said that while a civil settlement had been reached with the victim, no criminal charges had been filed against this officer. And how many black men and women have been victimized like this without having the video to pursue any justice?
To be clear, there are some remarkable, principled and heroic policemen out there. There are also racist and brutal policemen out there. Of course, it is only the latter that citizens, especially African Americans, have to worry about.
Now that there is sufficient evidence to see that our police forces have become too militarized and too capable of using unjustified force against the very people they are sworn to protect…and that D.A.s and Grand Juries will go out of their way (and out of legal bounds) to protect police from paying any price for their crimes, what can we do to change this? Or is it inevitable that the people must either subordinate themselves to the limits of such an unofficial police state or rise up violently against it?
The efforts that Eric Holder and President Obama are taking in light of their meeting with people from Ferguson, Missouri may be the small light at the end of the tunnel. Profound reforms need to be made to our police forces which have grown too independently powerful over the years. The mentality of “us vs. them” is far too prevalent, the abuse of power is far too great and the confidence to act with impunity is far too widespread.
The St. Louis Police have continued to double down on their racism and oppression by insisting that the St. Louis Rams players who demonstrated support for their community before their game last Sunday by giving the “Hands up, don’t shoot” motions should be punished. They are also investigating Michael Brown’s stepfather for inciting a riot due to his furious reaction right after the ruling by saying, “Burn this bitch down! “(I’m sure there wouldn’t have been any rioting if he hadn’t shouted that). They won’t however be investigating the St. Louis D.A. McCulloch who intentionally released the explosive decision at night when rioting was most likely to happen.
Can change really happen? Can there be accountability for police? Can there be an assurance of safety for all citizens and can police carry the integrity and confidence with their communities that is so necessary for them to operate successfully?
And can we fix our broken justice system that provides for D.A.s to manipulate Grand Juries against indicting police officers? That’s an even tougher challenge but that too needs to be addressed.
A social system can’t stand if people have no confidence in it, no matter how many tanks and sets of military assault uniforms you have.
In the early 1990s I had reason to confront an entire police department for its selective enforcement of the law. I enlisted the aid of a Black city council member who helped me file a complaint against the PD and create an FBI investigation. It freaking worked. It changed EVERYTHING for the good. Someone has to be the ‘name’ on a complaint – I was not thrilled to be that, but eventually it was OK. I urge anyone who has a beef, if a resident of the area where the issue exists, to find a brave public official with whom to partner and file that complaint. I was pointed out to the PD Commissioner – and lived to tell the tale. It’s scary, but it’s important. It can be done. We must step up and do it.
c’lady, you are living proof (just had to correct an almost-typo…I had typed “loving” proof…maybe I should have left it that way) that taking a stand against injustice is nothing to be sentimentalized.
It’s tough business. It can be dangerous business.
If everybody loves you and you don’t have a single enemy in the world, you’re doing something wrong.
I know I’m late to be commenting on this, but I’d just like to add my two cents’ worth. IMHO, we need to be reframing the dialogue so that people cannot make this about race, even though it is about race. Perhaps we need to be reframing this as outrage over fellow American citizens being treated this way by police. When we “marginalize” people as black–and make no mistake about it; if you are a black American, you are “marginalized”–we are giving a “reason” for the police to act this way. So, from now on, I’m going to use the term “my fellow American citizens” when talking about these injustices. I’m sure it’s naïve and optimistic to think that it will make any difference whatsoever, but I refuse to marginalize my fellow American citizens, no matter what their race. I know I’m “preaching to the choir”, but consider this my humble contribution to helping our nation move forward.
glenn, I think you’re making a good point here. Yes, Ferguson and the Eric Garner case are about race. But there’s an element of class here too. Poor whites are not treated much better by law enforcement.
And we only have to look at video of the way police reacted to Occupy demonstrators a few years back to see that being whacked with a baton, roughed-up and/or tear gassed for no reason can happen to almost anyone who happens to be on the “wrong” side of an issue.
I agree, this is also an issue of police over reach (and over supply with ridiculous military hardware and no training regarding when and how to use it) and income inequality. (When was the last time you saw a cop choke a banker?)
Kes, thanks for your reply. I think your point about it being a class issue as well is one to be considered. Most pundits, both on the left and especially on the right, want to boil this down to the issue of race only, and that is not the case. Race is one factor in all of these cases, but not the only one. I was watching Chris Hayes when the NY grand jury decision first came down. He had on a councilman from NY and the councilman was saying it was a problem with how politicians treat black people. So, Chris asked him, “As a politician, what are YOU doing about it?” I think this is a question we have to ask of all the people who have the power to do something about it, no matter what their race. I wish Chris Hayes would ask every politician who comes on his show this question. “What are YOU doing about the culture/policies/laws that allow police to act this way against their fellow American citizens?”
I agree, glenn. Politicians can’t just sit back and hope that things improve. We elect them to get things done — to change things that are wrong — and they’re collecting their salaries for nothing if they don’t even try to do that.
Today on the way home, I was listening to the radio in the car. NPR had an interview with Perry Wallace, whom I’d never even heard of. He was the first Black basketball player at Vanderbilt University and he chronicles what he endured in the South in a book that has just been published.
Is this ever going to change?
Now that the South has gone completely GOP, wouldn’t you love to ask every one of them: “What are YOU doing about this culture?”
EXCLUSIVE: Cop texted union rep as Akai Gurley lay dying
http://nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/exclusive-texted-union-rep-akai-gurley-lay-dying-article-1.2034219
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UN ‘concerned’ at US jury decisions
UN human rights experts express “legitimate concerns” over no charges being brought against US policemen involved in two civilian deaths.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30350702
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Jon Stewart to Eric Garner: You Think pain and grief are hard to digest (12/4/2014)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aIElMOqdCSs
Justice Department finds use of force problems in Cleveland Police Department
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/justice-department-finds-use-of-force-problems-in-cleveland-police-department/2014/12/04/303e0d28-7be6-11e4-b821-503cc7efed9e_story.html?wpisrc=nl-eve&wpmm=1
Kalima, it’s a start but so much more needs to be done. Let’s keep this ball rolling…right over the racists and racist aspects of our system.
Maybe they need to start at the top and spring clean their way down because the cover ups in some places are corrosive. Reminds me a bit of the priests involved in the sexual abuse of so many children. Cover it up, move them around and the problem magically disappears. Except it didn’t, it just became worse.
Kalima, you nailed it, this does come across like the institutional corruption exposed by the pedophile priests. Our police forces will need restructuring from the ground up to cleanse them of this ruthless violence towards black males. The racists have to go, the blue curtain has to be torn down and prosecution of the sadistic and murderous cops must happen.
Amen to that AdLib. I see no other way but to remove the cancer and restructure with capable people in charge who apply the rules for everyone, and punish those who don’t abide by them. Isn’t that what policing is all about? Obviously they can’t police themselves.
Here is a partial list of unarmed Blacks killed by police in the US since the turn of the century. A complete list from 2005 to 2012 alone would show nearly 800 killings. Folks, this is a real problem.
List not well received by the good folks at Yahoo, who think all of these people had it coming. They also see some connection between criminals who kill and police who kill — as if criminal behavior give the police permission to do the same thing.
My book research on the Yahooligans continues…
2014: Tamir Rice (Cleveland, OH)
2014: Victor White III (Iberia Parish, LA)
2014: Dante Parker (San Bernardino County, CA)
2014: Ezell Ford (Los Angeles, CA)
2014: Michael Brown (Ferguson, MO)
2014: Tyree Woodson (Baltimore, MD)
2014: John Crawford III (Beavercreek, OH)
2014: Eric Garner (New York, NY)
2014: Yvette Smith (Bastrop, TX)
2014: Jordan Baker (Houston, TX)
2013: Barrington Williams (New York, NY)
2013: Carlos Alcis (New York, NY)
2013: Deion Fludd (New York, NY)
2013: Jonathan Ferrell (Bradfield Farms, NC)
2013: Kimani Gray (New York, NY)
2013: Kyam Livingstone (New York, NY)
2013: Larry Eugene Jackson, Jr. (Austin, TX)
2013: Miriam Carey (Washington, DC)
2012: Chavis Carter (Jonesboro, AR)
2012: Dante Price (Dayton, OH)
2012: Duane Brown (New York, NY)
2012: Ervin Jefferson (Atlanta, GA)
2012: Jersey Green (Aurora, IL)
2012: Johnnnie Kamahi Warren (Dotham, AL)
2012: Justin Slipp (New Orleans, LA)
2012: Kendrec McDade (Pasadena, CA)
2012: Malissa Williams (Cleveland, OH)
2012: Nehemiah Dillard (Gainesville, FL)
2012: Ramarley Graham (New York, NY)
2012: Raymond Allen (Galveston, TX)
2012: Rekia Boyd (Chicago, IL)
2012: Reynaldo Cuevas (New York, NY)
2012: Robert Dumas Jr (Cleveland, OH)
2012: Sgt. Manuel Loggins Jr (Orange County, CA)
2012: Shantel Davis (New York, NY)
2012: Sharmel Edwards (Las Vegas, NV)
2012: Shereese Francis (New York, NY)
2012: Tamon Robinson (New York, NY)
2012: Timothy Russell (Cleveland, OH)
2012: Wendell Allen (New Orleans, LA)
2011: Alonzo Ashley (Denver, CO)
2011: Jimmell Cannon (Chicago, IL)
2011: Kenneth Chamberlain (White Plains, NY)
2011: Kenneth Harding (San Francisco, CA)
2011: Raheim Brown (Oakland, CA)
2011: Reginald Doucet (Los Angeles, CA)
2010: Aaron Campbell (Portland, OR)
2010: Aiyana Jones (Detroit, MI)
2010: Danroy Henry (Thornwood, NY)
2010: Derrick Jones (Oakland, CA)
2010: Steven Eugene Washington (Los Angeles, CA)
2009: Kiwane Carrington (Champaign, IL)
2009: Oscar Grant (Oakland, CA)
2009: Shem Walker (New York, NY)
2009: Victor Steen (Pensacola, FL)
2008: Tarika Wilson (Lima, OH)
2007: DeAunta Terrel Farrow (West Memphis, AR)
2006: Sean Bell (New York, NY)
2005: Henry Glover (New Orleans, LA)
2005: James Brisette (New Orleans, LA)
2005: Ronald Madison (New Orleans, LA)
2004: Timothy Stansbury (New York, NY)
2003: Alberta Spruill (New York, NY)
2003: Orlando Barlow (Las Vegas, NV)
2003: Ousmane Zongo (New York, NY)
2003: Michael Ellerbe (Uniontown, PA)
2001: Timothy Thomas (Cincinnati, OH)
2000: Earl Murray (Dellwood, MO)
2000: Malcolm Ferguson (New York, NY)
2000: Patrick Dorismond (New York, NY)
2000: Prince Jones (Fairfax County, VA)
2000: Ronald Beasley (Dellwood, MO)
A completely awesome piece of research, Michael, and just what is needed. Facts.
Two questions: may I pass this along (with credit to you) to others?
And: in your research, have you EVER come across a case in which a cop shot an unarmed Black person and went to trial? (Much less was convicted?)
Thank you so much.
There have been cases, but they are few. I think there was one in New York, but not sure of the race of the victim.
Thanks again.
I can’t take credit for this. I found it online in several places. But please share it.
Thanks so much, Michael. It’s a powerful statement.
Kes, I would like to know how many unarmed white men have been killed by the police?
That would be a telling piece of information along with Brodie’s info. I’m willing to bet that list will be a lot shorter.
I wouldn’t bet against you on that one, Nirek!
Michael,
I appreciate your research as well. As I stated, these cop killings are not new. I think because of social media, cell phones, and video cameras people are more aware. At least white people are more aware. Anyone who has lived in a predominately black community knows these killings happen.
James, thanks for sharing this tragic list. I recognize a number of names from it, recall the outrage at the time and how it waned.
Due to that, I have my concerns about the momentum behind reforming police and our legal system slipping away before anything is done but I am encouraged by the commitment of Obama and Holder to get something done.
There should be national shame over this reminder of how our institutionalized racism is so horrible and fatal. There will be many trying to paper over this and keep the status quo rather than admit the wrongs that have been and continue to go on but there is cause for hope that this time, it might be the straws that broke the racists’ back.
Poverty? Right, sure it is. There is the problem, right there in this mind set. Blame the victims. Racism? Not here.
Racial Disparities
Police union: ‘We don’t believe it’s an issue of race. We believe it’s an issue of poverty’
We asked the national head of the Fraternal Order of Police about race relations and police prosecutions.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2014/12/04/police-union-on-brown-and-garner-we-dont-believe-its-an-issue-of-race-we-believe-its-an-issue-of-poverty/
Kalima, it is a problem of poverty…the poverty of conscience and equality in too many police departments and our judicial system.
These police organizations are just doubling down on their racist and anti-citizen mentalities. They are oblivious to how deep a hole they are digging for themselves.
Well with outrageous claims like in the Wapo link above, they are not painting a believable picture of themselves by being so dishonest. They have a huge problem and who is going to be the first to admit it with so much evidence piling up against them.
I just briefly glanced through Yahoo, to find at least two separate stories of police killing an unarmed black man recently. I hardly ever check Yahoo, but this can’t be ignored.
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Phoenix police officer shoots dead unarmed black man during scuffle
http://news.yahoo.com/phoenix-police-officer-shoots-dead-unarmed-black-man-054343212.html
And this. Of course none of it is about race you know, it’s about poverty.
5 Ohio deputies investigated over racial texts
http://news.yahoo.com/5-ohio-deputies-investigated-over-racial-texts-140955694.html
Kalima, the silver lining to this very dark cloud is that the dam may be broken now and the stories of police abuse may be flowing out freely. The public’s view of the police and the need to get them under control will surely be impacted as more stories keep coming out that confirm how dangerous police have become.
I watched this earlier today and really felt for the son and daughter. I also hoped that they didn’t see the repeat of the video where their father died during this interview. Their hope was that the conversation continues, and I hope so too.
Eric Garner’s children speak to Katie Couric in exclusive interview
https://news.yahoo.com/katie-couric-special-report-on-race-in-america-171003730.html
Brodie, that list tells such a story. Sad to say America has not advanced in race relations as far as I had hoped.
Ad, this has to stop. Police need to be sure that a person is resisting before using excessive force. Mr. Garner was not resisting. He was saying he can’t breath. He was a large man and looked to me like he was not well. The police in the vidio were overpowering him and the chokehold was NOT supposed to be used!
Mike Brown did , I guess steal cigars but he never should have been shot.
The twelve year old boy was playing and the cop pulled up close and shot within 2 seconds? How was that justified? The cop had a poor record from a previous PD. Why was he hired in the first place? “Trigger happy” was one of the reasons for the poor report about him.
I am certain that most police are truely good people but the PD’s need to train their officers to use the least amount of force necessary to subdue someone.
Last thing, this seems to be only with people of color. We don’t seem to see white people being killed without a chance to servive.
Okay last thing now. The Grand Jury system leaves a lot to be desired.
Nirek, this does indeed need to stop. Not one of these victims was doing anything terrible when they were confronted by police. In Michael Brown’s case, they were walking down the street. Wilson didn’t like that, started the confrontation and instead of being a “peace” officer, instigated a conflict which ended in his murdering Brown. And Wilson didn’t know that Brown had shoplifted the cigars so that was totally irrelevant…even though the Ferguson PD put out that video to defraud and propagandize the public into thinking it had anything to do with it.
In Garner’s case, he was accused of standing on the sidewalk and selling loose cigarettes (which was never proven). Wow…selling loose cigarettes for $1 would be such a threat to NY’s society and economy and the safety of its citizens, that sure does require several police officers to jump you and choke you to death. Just writing a ticket or summons wouldn’t have been sufficient for this threat.
And poor Tamir, thinking he could be a 12 year old goofing around and playing with a fake gun. Not when you’re black. He was threatening no one, breaking no law and in seconds he was murdered.
This does need to stop and right now.
Hi AdLib, et al
I heard a former ATF guy make this comment (paraphrase): In all three cases, Mike Brown, Eric Garner and Tamir Rice, the cops needed to “back up”. Mike Brown had been shot twice. Where was he going to go? If the cop, Darren Wilson, had stayed in his car, maybe called for backup (which was 90 seconds away), Mike would be alive. If you’ve been shot you’re going to try and get medical assistance.
In the case of Eric Garner, once he was on the ground with five or six cops holding him down and others standing around, there was no need for the chokehold or 4 or 5 men sitting on or leaning on his back. If fact, since the cops don’t really know what he was doing, maybe a conversation would have been in order.
Tamir Rice, the 12 year old child. The cop car rolls up and in less than 2 seconds one cop shoots and kills Tamir. The ATF guy said if Tamir had been a man with a real gun the cops would be dead. He said that it was a stupid action. Well trained police would had never handled the situation in this matter. But the child never had a chance. Plus the cops didn’t know there was a video and initially lied.
Unfortunately, these cop killings are NOT new. It’s been going on seems like forever. Malcolm X talked about police brutality in the 60’s. Hell, James Baldwin wrote about police brutality before Malcolm.
Sabreen, all that you describe sounds like smart policing versus dumb, brute force, emotional policing. No question that these police forces are over-armed and under-trained.
As you point out, once you’ve shot someone twice, why not back off and wait for back up? What’s to be gained by charging that person and firing many more shots into him? Except murdering him?
And in Garner’s case, do you even need to physically restrain someone who hasn’t done anything violent or violated any serious law? If someone jaywalks, do they need to be manhandled and wrestled to the ground?
As for the tragic story of Tamir, how insane is it to drive right up to an armed suspect??? What kind of idiocy is that and not just approaching in a smart and cautious way to assess the situation? There was no one else out there, no immediate threat to anyone.
Combine stupidity, poor training, and a superior value for cops’ lives over citizens with the power of being a cop and such unavoidable tragedies happen.
Stunning that this has happened twice in less than two weeks, isn’t it AdLib?
As difficult as it is to get an indictment for a policeman killing an unarmed black male, it seems to be amazingly easy for the person who recorded such an incident to get into hot water. (And his wife as well!) With a little “help” from law enforcement, that is.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/nypd-cop-who-choked-eric-garner-wasnt-indicted-but-man-who-recorded-the-incident-was/
Kes, we have seen a very clear campaign by police to use the law to attack those who they feel crossed them in these cases. They are investigating Michael Brown’s stepfather for expressing his disgust at the ruling by saying, “Burn this bitch down!” as inciting a riot. They harassed and attacked and jailed protesters. They demanded punishment of the Rams players who did the “Hands Up, don’t shoot” motion and in NY, they’ve indicted the man who shot the Garner video.
Not all police are like this but some police organizations can be outrageous and vindictive assholes.
I couldn’t help but note the irony of the fact that the guy who was flakking for the police department tonight had the last name of — Lynch.
Kes – Wow, that is amazingly ironic! Guess he was filling in for Officer Cracker and Officer Kross-Burns.
Point to Ponder:
If the Supreme Court has ruled that it is quite alright to lie, then all perjury convictions should be set aside. And if someone is caught in a lie, they can now cite the SC position and walk.
Effin’ crazy!
PPO – What the SCOTUS said is that the right to lie is covered by the 1st Amendment when it comes to political speech. This came about because states have tried to make laws that held people responsible for lying in the political ads, speeches, etc. So the brilliant SCOTUS decided that politicians and interest groups have the right to lie to the American people in political speech and it’s just too bad for voters if they vote based on lies they’ve been told, it’s their responsibility to find out what is or isn’t a lie.
What assholes.
If I am still able to post comments here.Exceptional – AGAIN – and shared.But the whole ordeal suffered by the “not the right color” (SIC) in this country , was triggered by Floriduh , when this schtupid state, allowed FauxPropaganda news, to have the right to LIE, under the 1st.
The cancervatives have been waxing the machine, since the President – again, wrong color, was elected twice. You might have felt my other post was racist. So just you know, my older nephew converted to Islam to marry a black, intelligent,Saudi Arabia native and now I have 4 very cute black nephews.. Thank you.
Hi ExFan, no one has removed your comment, so please try to not jump to conclusions. Had your comment been moderated, you would be able to see that “Awaiting Moderation” message below your comment. Please check, I believe your comment is right where you left it. Thanks!
Thanks, Kalima. I have been quite jumpy due to personal issues.So sorry.;)
Ok ExFan, glad we cleared that up. I hope you will feel better soon.
Ad,
Not surprising as they are vilified by the media on a daily basis.
Yet the massive killings on this country, movie theaters , schools, college et al, are perpetrated by rather well off, WHITE MEN.The mo*o Daren Wilson, will never find a place to live in hiding.Anonymous is right on finding him.
A question, ExFan. If Anonymous find him what do you think they will do? Knock on the door and shake his hand? No, they will put his address and details on the Internet so people who are still very angry about the Ferguson grand jury decision can take the law into their own hands. Result: More lives ruined in a few minutes/seconds of anger.
Anonymous has done some great work, but sometimes they go too far.
We do not support this kind of vigilante justice.
Anonymous has gone to far? When did that happen? Please list the occasions where they’ve gone “too far”.
This time. They don’t advocate violence but will give details on the Internet just like the extreme RW nuts did about Dr. Tiller and others who worked for clinics where abortions were performed. People are still rightfully angry all over America, some want revenge, but why offer the opportunity to ruin more lives?
If you don’t want to consider the consequences then cheer on.
People are being murdered, gunned down in the streets. DETAILS are not such a bad thing!!!!! DETAILS may result in DETERRING murder!!!!
And encourage to repeat it too. How many more people should live in your crowded and biased jails with corrupt officials making a profit from them while they rot?
If you think that Anonymous is doing a great thing, that’s ok with me. I don’t because through it they are putting others in danger. How can you be an activist group without the support of the public? There are far too many black Americans in your jails already. That was the whole point of my comment.
If I may weigh in… I didn’t have a problem with it when Anonymous took over the Twitter account of the KKK for a few days there because it sent a message without causing physical harm to anyone (as far as I know). But I sincerely hope they don’t plan to reveal the home address, phone number and credit details of Darren Wilson.
We have to remember that this guy has a pregnant wife too. And that the federal government is not entirely done with this situation yet. The rule of law can be excruciatingly slow and imperfect, but it’s the only way to maintain a civilized society.
I have serious misgivings about any group — and for me, the one that I’m most concerned about is Oath Keepers — that offers to interpret the law for us, and then enforce their version of it. “For our own good.”
We didn’t elect Anonymous and we didn’t elect Oath Keepers. Which means we also don’t have the power to “un-elect” them. Not a good position in which to find ourselves should we object to anything they do.
Awwwww….a pregnant wife? well why didn’t you say so!!! that alone certainly gives him a pass free card, carte blanche to maim, kill & destroy young black lives. Perhaps the family of the deceased isn’t aware!
UNTIL such time as there is clear evidence that Anonymous has any culpability, they will continue to receive my support.
Meanwhile, lets all hold hands and sing together shall we? How does it go again? Kumbaya my Lord, Kumbaya!!!
This notion of condemning an effort before they’ve even proven themselves guilty of anything sounds oddly familiar!
VB, I think you know that I never said that having a pregnant wife meant Wilson has a license to kill. That really isn’t fair.
And I didn’t say that Anonymous had released his personal info. I said I hoped they wouldn’t.
A discussion is fine, but I shouldn’t be placed in a position of defending statements that I never made in the first place.
I hope the Feds bring justice to this situation. But we need to let them do their jobs first. Not step in and do it for them.
Yes maybe we should hold hands VB, and sing about the fact that you are on a site where people actually care deeply about this problem, and discuss it respectfully. Bearing that in mind, in my opinion there is no need for sarcasm here. Your anger is misdirected. We are all on the same team.
For your information, I just heard from a friend that the song you refer to started with an African pronunciation of the phrase: “Come by here, Lord! Come by here!”
VB, many of us feel outrage over the racist killings by police and the institutionalized racism in our so-called “justice” system.
But personally, I don’t think that we should allow our outrage to bring us down to the level of those we rightfully despise.
Racist police kill black men because, among other things, they see them and their lives as not being as valuable as white people’s. This devaluization of blacks and overvaluization of whites is insidious.
Though I badly want to see true justice handed out against Daniel Pantaleo, and I am optimistic that Obama, Holder and the DoJ will do so, I would not devalue the life of Pantaleo’s wife to justify a desire to see him dealt with.
It is important to remember that dehumanization and vigilantism have been the tools of the KKK and those who have been and are the most hateful racists in this country. If vigilantism is wrong, it’s wrong no matter who does it or else it’s valid for all who practice it.
I have appreciated a number of stands and actions Anonymous has taken including their support of OWS. I don’t, however, see what would be gained by their providing the location of Pantaleo, especially if it resulted in violence against him and his wife. That would be the antithesis of what those opposing the murders of Garner and Brown are fighting for, namely, the fair and legal treatment of all Americans. If an innocent woman was murdered in the pursuit of avenging the murder of an innocent man, innocent blood would be on everyone’s hands, no one would be left standing on the moral high ground to demand change.
If we are against the killing of innocent people due to personal hatreds, then we are against it in all cases.
It’s a very human and natural feeling, after something terrible has happened, to want to see something bad happen to someone bad but what separates us from the murdering cops is that we believe in justice and a society that must enforce a fair and equal justice to everyone.
We don’t have that now and that’s fucked up. But to have a chance of getting there, we can’t legitimize vigilantism by or against cops. If we don’t do that, we have the moral authority and what appears to be the growing national support to change our justice system and the way our police operate to prevent future vigilante killings by them.
What we can work towards now is seeing justice served if possible in these two cases but what’s even more important is preventing the police from killing more innocent, unarmed black men. The only path that can get us there is not vigilantism but changing the system through the will of the people. And the only way to rally a majority of Americans behind such change, is to be standing on the moral highground.
a) Justice will never be served nor has it EVER been for African Americans in this country and particularly our men but wait….why don’t you share WHEN justice was served!
b) why all the vitriol against anonymous or suspicion who have not and there is no evidence that there plan IS to reveal anyone’s information? Aren’t we jumping the gun, excuse the pun?
c) Vigilantism is already occupying our streets but we don’t call them vigilantes, we call them cops, and they protect their own, as has been demonstrated time and time again!
d) but hey, DC is formulating a task force….that should work, right?
e) I’d like to see the black mothers who’ve lost their children in the last 50 or so odd years determine the correct course of action. can you get with that? Were it me, I know exactly what I’d recommend.
This is an example of how things can go wrong with Anonymous — even when intentions are good:
http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/anonymous-got-wrong-ferguson
Thank you kes, you just proved my point.
VB – I don’t understand, are you saying that there has never been a law passed, a trial or court decision that ever provided justice to any African Americans? My point is, there is widespread injustice and prejudice against African Americans and even though there have been instances of justice being served, it doesn’t change how horrible the injustices are.
As to Anonymous, as I said, I supported a number of their efforts though I wouldn’t support an effort of theirs to deliver some kind of vigilante justice against Wilson or Pantaleo,whether it’s publicizing their addresses, stalking them, whatever.
I think it would be far more constructive and moral for them to put their weight behind the current uprising of people protesting and marching for an end to legalized police murders of unarmed black men. Building this into a national movement that will not be denied will save lives if they succeed in reigning in the police and demanding that all murderers, including those who are cops, are brought to justice.
You know the old saying about an eye for an eye leaving the whole world blind, vengeance is self-destructive and has never led to positive change.
If one is seeking to end vigilantism and violence on one side but advocating its use for one’s own side, then one is de facto not seeking to end it but increase it. And how will vigilantism against police stop police from killing another black man? Isn’t that our goal, to stop the violence, not increase it?
Many people are so fed up, angry and distraught by the reality of murderous racism under the cover of authority running loose in our society. But most of those people aren’t advocating violence or vigilantism, they are in the streets tonight in NY, MO and all across the country are choosing to build a national movement to force change. This is how change has happened in this nation, when enough people rise up and say, “Enough! Things must change!”.
I think that is the one and only constructive path. Though anger and frustration push us to turn down a darker road of vengeance and despair, the only road to a better place is the one of conscience that we march down together without letting anything deter or block us from our destination.
S-Man, that’s true and what should be astounding to Americans is that it starts with racist hatred openly and often displayed towards our nation’s own President. If that doesn’t legitimize open racism towards anyone else who is black, I don’t know what would.
Just read this, but as you say, it’s only the beginning of fixing a corrupt and broken system.
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No charges for N.Y. officer in apparent chokehold death; Justice Dept. to investigate
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/12/03/a-grand-jury-vote-in-new-york-police-involved-chokehold-case-could-come-soon/?wpisrc=al_national
This is a powerful article that speaks the truth so well, a very sad truth that too many people choose to ignore.
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Opinions
In America, black children don’t get to be children
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/in-america-black-children-dont-get-to-be-children/2014/11/26/a9e24756-74ee-11e4-a755-e32227229e7b_story.html
I left this link on your Ferguson GJ decision post in November, and wondered just how many small town police forces get to make their own rules like this. Mind boggling!
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Unorthodox Police Procedures Emerge In Grand Jury Documents
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/seemingly-unorthodox-police-procedures-emerge-in-grand-jury-documents/2014/11/25/48152574-74e0-11e4-bd1b-03009bd3e984_story.html?wpisrc=nl-most&wpmm=1
39 years? Did anyone hear an apology? I didn’t. Good Lord!!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2yV_HLDjMlw
Kalima, it’s a disappointing comment on Americans as a society when such blatant racism can coexist with enthusiastic beliefs in American Exceptionalism. The intentional tunnelvision, the rationalizing of the racist treatment of black people is just nauseating.
Despite all this evidence, so many, especially on the RW, claim racism is over (even our SCOTUS Chief Justice) while racism is on display so widely.
I do have some hope that the outrage going on now may provide the momentum to make some progress against some aspects of racism embedded in our society. Obama and Holder are behind making changes, that does give me more hope.
HI AdLib again a great article.
It does bring out many things that are just bad about this issue.
Being a minority myself i look at it like this.
The Conservatives/GOP party and officials and to many republicans / conservatives just think it is their right to shoot unarmed minorities and don’t dare bringing these cops to court.
Since the Supreme court has ruled that lying is legal, why not use it to clear Bad cops and Bad private citizens.
The ADA and DA in the Wilson case should have lost their license to practice law trying to use the unconstitutional law as presented evidence . That is straight out fraud!
TO Them Fraud is a lie and is legal.
Again just my look at this.
RSGMusic, what this displays is that there is no price to be paid for breaking the law if you’re a DA or a policeman and no justice if you’re an unarmed black man who’s murdered by police.
This has to change, Obama and Holder are moving to take action, De Blasio says he is but in Ferguson, it just seems to be deeper rooted.
Ok AdLib i agree with your post .
I hope they get justice for M Brown and all of us and put Wilson in jail for a long time.
long life!!