Manhattan has been fortified, well as much as the remaining residents of New York can with their limited resources.  Now they wait, for what, they are not sure.  On October 22, 2022, New York is the last bastion of what was once a free country.  Within hours, the last bastion of free society has capitulated.  They tried, they really did but fighting a new President who has the military at his disposal, militia and the National Guard now under his control as well as the Joshua Brigade, the 22 states that were a hold out and refused to remain with this new America, had no chance in a losing proposition against the new Christian-based government.  You say, what?  How can this be?  How could a President completely take over in the space of a year?  We are the bastion of the world in Democracy, this is just not possible.  Well, it is possible because they did so from within, they did so slowly, they did it in small ways, they did it using the same ideas people tried to warn you about.  They used a Shock Doctrine to erode the rights of the people, they used fear to bend the will of the people and they used the legions of people they had been placing in local, state and national offices all over the country to take control.  They did not manage this in a year, they waited patiently for many years to reach this pinnacle.  Many people across the country are puzzled but why should they be?  The Religious Right told them they were going to take over, why was it so hard to believe they did what they told the people they would do?

The above is a synopsis (without giving away the whole plot) of a book called, Christian Nation by Frederick Rich.  The plot of the book revolves around a New York City attorney(Greg), and his college buddy, an internet entrepreneur, Sanjay.  Sanjay begins to feel that things are going in the wrong direction and starts researching the Religious Right.  What he uncovers, is what many of us have uncovered in our search for information regarding their activities.  He tries to warn people and eventually with Greg’s help, he starts to make some inroads but it is way too late.  In the book, McCain won the Presidency and of course Sarah Palin was his VP.  As planned, they gave her little to do but no one really counted on the fact that within a few months McCain would die of an aneurysm and that Palin would become the new President.  For a short period of time, not much changes.  Oh there are little things happening here and there, Sam Brownback is appointed VP and Steve Jordan from the Faith and Freedom Coalition is set up in an office at the White House as an “unpaid political consultant”.  In the event others want to read the book, I will not give away much more of the story.  What I will tell you is that it is a valid version of what COULD happen if America does not wise up and pay attention and act, most importantly action is needed.

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction – Blaise Pascal – Pensees

We have seen this in action all throughout the history of the world and the people planning on doing that evil always warn us, we may not always hear them but they do warn us.  People are trying to tell all of us what they will do if they ever reach the White House again.  Hobby Lobby was a huge warning shot over the bow.  Internet chatter from trolls who claim civil war or a revolution is coming.  The hints of religion in the halls of our government offices.  Our Supreme Court making decisions that are directly in conflict with our Constitution.  They are all thumbing their noses at us and privately and sometimes publicly gloating.  In fact, it is my guess that even if they do not win the White House, they might attempt a coup based on their sheer madness in not being able to fulfill the destiny they think that God has for them.  Throughout history we have seen over and over what religious fundamentalism will do to a people.  We see it in countries all over the world.  What is supposed to be a peaceful and loving experience is taken to the opposite end of the spectrum.    And that opposite end always ends in violence.  I was recently given an article from a very good friend and it really drove home to me just how much of this fundamentalism has already impacted our country’s decisions and our conduct in war.  When you have a soldier who is proud of the number of Iraqis he has killed and who makes no secret of his fundamental religion, do you think there might just be a slim chance that there are many more and that he truly believes that he is doing God’s work?  And perhaps there are many more whom it would not take much persuasion to do the “right thing for their Lord and Savior?”  Call me silly but I know how deeply the religious right has infiltrated our military and it sometimes keeps me up at night.

We have many people in this country that would institute their own form of Sharia Law faster than you could blink, if they were given the opportunity.  It should be a secret to no one in this country who can read that there is a nasty undercurrent in our politics that has far more to do with a power grab than actual hate.  I am not saying that there is not hate involved, but I do believe the drive is more toward control than anything else.  And when you add a religious fanaticism to that drive for control, the endgame is not pleasant.  I have studied the religious right for the past 6 years, some call me an expert(unprofessional, that is), but I can tell you, I have not even scratched the surface.  I have not been able to dedicate full time to it and trying to set up a database would be a herculean effort.  What I can tell you is that it is no joke, these people are determined to rule this country.  What will happen is if you profess your allegiance to their “God” you will be fine, if you do not, there will be any number of forms of retribution but they will give you a chance to reform first.  Despite their twisted view of Christianity, or maybe because of it, they do so enjoy proseltyzing so you will get a certain amount of time to make a “sincere” decision.  I do not have a crystal ball to tell people exactly how, when or where it will be, all I can tell you is it will be hard.

So how do we prepare or head it off completely? All I can say is be vigilant, listen to these people when they talk, listen carefully.  I can guarantee that even if they are not addressing us as a whole, they are addressing people they know and their plans are being communicated among themselves.  Hannah Arendt dated her awakening to February 29, 1933, the day the Reichstag burned down.  “From the moment Adloph Hitler began using the fire as a pretext to suspend civil liberties and crush dissent”, Arendt said, “I felt responsible” (Samantha Power, Introduction to 2004 edition of Hannah Arendt’s The Origins of Totalitarianism).  We are seeing our police forces meet peaceful protests with riot gear, we are seeing police more violent with the citizens they interact with, these are signs of a change in the structure of our country.  What I see is intimidation and intimidation is a driving force in creating a populace who does not speak up, speak out and certainly not fight back.  While you cannot tie them directly to the Religious Right, surely you can see it as a step toward a docile population.  A population for which the majority will not fight back.  How much easier would it be for fundamentalists to take over with a population that has been conditioned not to fight back?  Here are some quotes from religious right leaders.  Read them carefully and see if you can see the underlying message that is being sent.

The Religious Right proclaims they are being muzzled and it is their rights that are in jeopardy in spite of their freedom of speech on politics, within certain boundaries.  Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council:   “What liberals who misread America’s original document are really saying is that the Federal government should not only silence churches but also exclude their members from any influence on government.  In the name of tolerance, they would be intolerant to others.”

What?  In a system that is designed to encourage religious freedom for everyone, Perkins is branding it as silencing churches and being intolerant.  Our Constitution provides protection for the rights of all citizens but to tell the truth, the rights of ALL citizens are not the Religious Right’s concern at all.

“It is not possible for there ever, in the United States of America, to be a separation between God and government because God is the source of every single right which government has a sacred duty to protect … not a single one of our unalienable rights will be safe in the hands of a president who believes that we evolved from slime and we are the descendants of apes and baboons … look at the nation states in the 20th century which rejected the creator God of the Judeo-Christian tradition – Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, Communist China. The one thing all of these secular states share in common is dead bodies.” Bryan Fischer, American Family Association

The dead bodies are a true statement, however, Hitler would beg to differ with Bryan Fischer about Christianity:

The national government will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built up.  It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality and the family as the basis of national life.  February 1, 1933

Ralph Reed (on his prowess as a political operative for the Christian right wing in 1991):

I want to be invisible.  I do guerilla warfare.  I paint my face and travel at night.  You don’t know it’s over until you’re in a body bag.

Jerry Falwell:

I hope I live to see the day, when, as in the early days of our country, we won’t have any public schools.  The churches will have taken them over again, and Christians will be running them.

Sarah Palin:

Go back to what our founders and our founding documents meant — they’re quite clear — that we would create law based on the God of the bible and the 10 Commandments.

—Michael Schwartz, chief of staff to Senator Tom Coburn (R-OK), in 2004

I’m a radical! I’m a real extremist. I don’t want to impeach judges. I want to impale them!

Cornerstone Church’s Rev. John Hagee, who endorsed John McCain during the 2008 presidential race.

As soon as Jesus sits on his throne he’s gonna rule the world with a rod of iron. That means he’s gonna make the ACLU do what he wants them to. That means you’re not gonna have to ask if you can pray in public school. We will live by the law of God and no other law.

Rev. Andrew Sandlin, Chalcedon Report, March, 1994 (Rousas Rushdooney’s Chalcedon Institute)

If Christians are charged with exercising dominion in all spheres of life (Gen. 2:26-28), to abandon public education to Satan is to compromise our calling. The attitude and approach of Christians should be that they never expose their children to public education, but that they should work increasingly to expose public education to the claims of Christ. Certain specially suited Christians, in fact, should pray and work tirelessly to obtain teaching and school board and even administrative posts within public education. The penultimate goal of these Christians should be the privatization of these larcenous institutions, and the ultimate aim the bringing of them under the authority of Christ and His word.

Need any more?  These people have made no secret about what their intent is and if you look around you at the state our populace is in relation to their lack of respect for and belief in a good public school education, you just might think some of these people and their followers have had a lot to do with it.  Like Ralph Reed said, they are going to come in the night, they will lull the public to sleep and then by virtue of some national tragedy(real or false flag) they will make their move and do Exactly What They Said They Would Do.  Where will you be?  I hope I am in a world where people finally woke up and stopped this for good, but I am not holding out much hope.

***I have also done some other work here on the Religious Right, you can find them in the archives here.

President Kennedy had some foresight into domination by Christianity, he talked about it in his speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association in 1963

Religious Fundamentalism in the War on Terrorists

This is a religious civil war:  Hobby Lobby only the beginning for religious theocrats

I’m Terrified of these Religious Zealots – Claire Connor Mork






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Sue, another strong addition to your series and very important in the simple instructions it gives…when extremists warn you of what they’re capable of, believe them!

That is a chief difference between religious fanatics and well adjusted people, they lack the regulators in their brains that would keep a normal person from acting on severely hostile ideas.

Very interested in Christian Nation, I like alternate reality stories, really gives the opportunity to extrapolate out what could happen. It is fiction of course and I would argue that In such a scenario, there would be many Americans of conscience who would never back down and would build a national protest movement that would eventually prevail.

Still, the scenario of the insanity and oppression that a RW religious extremist could unleash on this nation if she/he had the power of the Presidency is alarming.

They do seek that power, the SCOTUS Five are doing all they can to pave the way for them. Their focus on winning local elections has been successful and the support of billionaires like the Koch Bros. give them the public megaphone they need. They are a real threat and I’m reminded of one of my favorite lines from The Cotton Club, “If you don’t know you’re in a war, you’ve already lost.”



Thank you for chiming in, thank you for posting the articles that Sue has written regarding the RR. I still say I see no reason she should have been offended. I felt she misunderstood what I was saying and tried to put off my work with members of the RR as something other than what she was talking about. I tried to explain my position. If that insulted her, I feel bad that she felt that way. I feel it was a misunderstanding, and if it wasn’t, please explain why/how it wasn’t.


My pleasure, monicaangela, I’m sure you will both sort it out amicably. Sometimes it’s difficult when we just write things and are misunderstood. It’s often harder explaining ourselves than actually speaking face to face.

See you soon.


Kalima, I hold no animosity toward Sue, I actually admire the work she has done. I’m sure you are correct, this can be worked out amicably as far as I am concerned. I don’t feel this should cause a rift between us, at least I hope not. Thank you for always being there. You are truly appreciated.


As I said, sometimes in blogging there are misunderstandings, and they could be for any number of reasons we might never know about in the other person’s private life, so we often have to go the extra mile to try to explain exactly what we mean.

You will sort it out I’m sure. I’m in and out today, but I’m glad I was passing through when I did.

Take care, and have a nice what is left of your evening. Greetings from my Tokyo morning and thank you.



I see from your response, you do not understand fully what I am saying regarding working with Christian Right Evangelicals. First, let me say that I do not believe in organized religion and do not believe that working with the leaders of cults will bring change to the cult. Just listening to what I just said should make you understand what I feel about the futility of working with church leaders who are those that indoctrinate their cult members in the first place.

It is well known that in order to rescue someone from a cult you have to work with the individual or individuals that are searching for answers to questions they have that the leaders in their organization are not or cannot provide. Most people I work with are individuals.

My rule with working with these people is the following: Understand what you believe. Sounds strange, but the place to start is with yourself. What do you believe about God? About Jesus? Do you have a good grasp of Scripture? If you do, then you are equipped to speak with someone who belongs to a right wing christian organization.

I also believe that you need to be as well versed in other religions as you possibly can because you will need to make comparisons when discussing religion as a whole, after all, most evangelicals are trying to convince those they wish to indoctrinate to believe the only true religion is their religion and their method of practicing the religion.

As for the organizations I have worked with, I have volunteered to work with many, most recently the NOHS (National Organization for Human Services). We work with many different types of problems that human beings encounter. Many of the people I have worked with and helped to understand the problems with the Christian Right Evangelical movement have been people who had also volunteered themselves to work with others through the NOHS and other organizations. We, many of the volunteers, found that many of those that were volunteering from these churches were in effect proselytizing. We instead of complaining or trying to have them removed from their volunteer positions began meeting with them. We would have discussions regarding religion, we would remind them that the goals of the organization we were volunteering for did not include what they were doing, and get them to stop proselytizing.

Through these meetings, we were able to reach many Christian Right Evangelicals and to this day, continue to notice the change in them, some of them have even been able to assist others who attended the churches they once attended and convinced them to relinquish the strong hold that some of these churches have on their members.

As I said, I volunteer where I feel I can be of service to my fellow man. I work with Native American organizations, African American organizations, and just about any organization that is involved in helping human beings and whose objective is to serve, not indoctrinate.

The right wing christian evangelical movement members are not people that I generally volunteer to work with. I have noticed over the past ten years, while dealing with other problems, for some reason I have encountered, had conversations with, became friends with, and eventually helped many who when we first meet believe they are doing what they have been taught is the work of God. I do not plan to work with these people. I guess I have been lucky enough to encounter these people, have some kind of effect on them, and convince them without negativity that the way I feel about problems with the organizations they serve and what they teach has merit.

Sometimes trying to work through Christian coalitions is the worst way you can go when trying to reach individuals, because most coalitions, especially Christian coalitions have their set of rules, rules you cannot deviate from and can whether sincere or not try to convince you of the sincerity of their beliefs. This for me can only wind up being an argument over differences in church doctrine, something that will not change if on coalition is trying to convince another it has THE correct version of religious practices.


I have come back to make my substantive comment, but before I do that…I have sent about a dozen people to your comment here from Daily Kos and from several of my personal contacts. ALL have said that it is a very important comment. Several asked if you could provide a list of links to your comments on this subject for easy access.

So,if you have any interest in crossposting I stand ready to assist. If not, then, with your permission, I would like to do a diary about your post here (a summary with my content added in and a link to the full article).

Just trying to be respectful of the authors wishes.

————–you know from previous conversations re. religion is idolatry and zealotry that we agree on virtually everything you have posted here and earlier——- so let me just say “ditto” to your excellent selection of a book that paints a religious dystopia in ways that quite convincing especially when paired with your analysis and documented case…..

And let me add. The issue of medicaid expansion in Missouri. As we have discussed before one has to be virtually destitute, 15 percent of federal poverty guideline, or a pregnant mother or a child to get medicaid. This means that most of the poor are not covered, and this is particularly galling for the working poor, many of whom uses the public access clinics and their sliding scale payment systems (the big problem being that there are way too few of them and they have trouble getting hospital based services like MRI’s and CT Scans.

A number of churches have gone to bat for this.




You will note that these articles all reference churches with a liberal orientation.

The right leaning (usually pro-life proclaiming) churches remain silent in public statements but they certainly pass on a particular set of beliefs to their congregants.

Here is something I have seen posted in a number church bulletins and letters (note- not on-line- hmmmmmmm)


Since 1964 the United States Governments (Federal and State) have transferred over five trillion dollars from the middle class and the rich to the poor. Are the poor better off today or have they become more enslaved and dependent on government?

How much is five trillion dollars? A billion dollars is one thousand million dollars. A trillion dollars is one thousand billion dollars, thus five trillion dollars is five thousand billion dollars. That amount is inconceivable to the human mind. That is how much government has taken from the middle and rich class and transferred it to the poor. This money did not cost the poor anything. They did not have to earn it. It was given them.

This scenario described is why so many are up in arms about the subject of welfare. There are still over three million Americans on the welfare rolls. Some are being helped by it and learning to stand on their own feet someday. This is the goal. Others have become enslaved by it and are dependent on it. Some are second, third and even fourth generation dependents on welfare. There are special cases where some are worthy of help and compassion such as the disabled veteran, other disabled, orphans, handicapped, retarded and other extraordinary cases. These can be helped when there is no one else to help them.

The average middle class worker today works till the middle of May each year for the government. Everything they earn from January till about the middle of May is taxed and taken by the government in some form. These hard working people are feeling slighted that some of their money is given to some poor people who have not earned it and do not deserve it. Needless to say, welfare is a very volatile subject and our goal again is to find out what the Bible says.

1. No work, no eat.

II Thessalonians 3:6-12, “Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you; Neither did we eat any man’s bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us. For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.”

This is the simplest answer in the Bible concerning the subject.

2. A man who does not take care of his own is despicable.

I Timothy 5:8, “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.”

It is about the worst indictment a man could receive to be called “worse than an infidel.” This is not the governments job, but a man’s job to take care of his own. Even deadbeat dads should be hunted down and forced to care for their own as long as they live. Jesse Ventura, Governor of Minnesota said, “It’s not the governments job to make up for your mistakes.”

3. Widows are to be cared for by their family, not government or church.

I Timothy 5:3-10,16 “Honour widows that are widows indeed. But if any widow have children or nephews, let them learn first to shew piety at home, and to requite their parents: for that is good and acceptable before God. Now she that is a widow indeed, and desolate, trusteth in God, and continueth in supplications and prayers night and day. But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth. And these things give in charge, that they may be blameless. But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man, Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints’ feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work. If any man or woman that believeth have widows, let them relieve them, and let not the church be charged; that it may relieve them that are widows indeed.” Leviticus 22:13, “But if the priest’s daughter be a widow, or divorced, and have no child, and is returned unto her father’s house, as in her youth, she shall eat of her father’s meat: but there shall no stranger eat thereof.”

There is such a widow that is worthy of Church support. She is called a “widow indeed” or “desolate” in this text.

As you note the requirements, she is a rare case:

• Desolate – I Timothy 5:5 (No living husband, children, nephews etc.).
• Over 60 years old – I Timothy 5:9.
• Never been divorced – I Timothy 5:9.
• Well reported of having done good works for others – I Timothy 5:10.
• Brought up her children – I Timothy 5:10.
• Lodged strangers – I Timothy 5:10.
• Washed feet, humbly served others – I Timothy 5:10.
• Relieved the afflicted – I Timothy 5:10.
• Followed every good work – I Timothy 5:10.

These are certainly extraordinary conditions before such a widow can receive welfare from the church (I Timothy 5:16).

4. The extended family is to care for all family members.

I Timothy 5:4, “But if any widow have children or nephews, let them learn first to shew piety at home, and to requite their parents: for that is good and acceptable before God.”

Not only should children care for their parents, but nephews should care for their aunts and uncles! We are far from this today. We do not even think like this today. Yet this is Bible.

The word “requite” means “pay back.” If parents have taken care of their children for twenty years at the beginning of their lives, then children should be willing to take care of their parents for twenty years at the end of their lives. The word “piety” means “respect” or “support.” This is God’s social security plan.

5. Government should strengthen the hand of the poor and needy, not weaken it.

Ezekiel 16:49-50, “Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.”

One of the reasons God destroyed the four cities on the plain was that they did not strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

Government should try to strengthen the poor, not make them weaker. If the government is going to give things away, instead of giving fish, they should give a fishing pole. Then the poor would have the means to go out and catch their own fish. If government, church or individuals help the poor it should only be in such a way to get them started in helping themselves.

This principle is taught in the law of God:

Leviticus 19:9-10, “And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest. And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the LORD your God.”

Leviticus 23:22, “And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God.”

(The widow Ruth practiced this in Ruth 2:1-3.)

By giving away free handouts (the fancy word today is “entitlements”) the poor are weakened. They do not learn the value and self satisfaction of industriousness. The poor should not be weakened but strengthened. People should depend on themselves not on the government.

6. Even in great distress the poor paid what they could for help from government.

Genesis 41:53-57, “And the seven years of plenteousness, that was in the land of Egypt, were ended. And the seven years of dearth began to come, according as Joseph had said: and the dearth was in all lands; but in all the land of Egypt there was bread. And when all the land of Egypt was famished, the people cried to Pharaoh for bread: and Pharaoh said unto all the Egyptians, Go unto Joseph; what he saith to you, do. And the famine was over all the face of the earth: And Joseph opened all the storehouses, and sold unto the Egyptians; and the famine waxed sore in the land of Egypt. And all countries came into Egypt to Joseph for to buy corn; because that the famine was so sore in all lands.”

No handouts here. The poor paid for what they could from the government. Remember, this was all by the directive of God through Joseph who had been sold into Egypt as a slave. He grew and by the blessing of God became second to the leader, Pharaoh, in all the land. Even in great distress the government should avoid the practice of free handouts. Some state governors are replacing welfare with workfare.

7. Government should judge the poor.

Psalms 72:2,4, “He shall judge thy people with righteousness, and thy poor with judgment. He shall judge the poor of the people, he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor.”

Proverbs 31:9, “Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.”

Isaiah 11:4, “But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.”

Some of the poor need a helping hand until they get on their own feet. This should only be in times of great distress and for as short of duration as possible. Other poor need a kick in the pants. The government should make this righteous judgment. The church should make this righteous judgment. Individuals should make this righteous judgment. Those who are worthy should be helped. Those not worthy should not be helped.

Jesus said in John 7:24, “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.” Righteous judgment of the poor would be included.

Helping the poor is certainly part of the Christian faith. Giving to the poor that be worthy is taught throughout Scripture. Revival in this teaching and practice in the Christian church could relieve all government welfare programs.

Let us illustrate: There are 260 million Americans. Forty percent of them attend some sort of a “Christian” church each Sunday. That is 104 million. These attend 1.5 million churches across America. There are 3 million recipients of welfare in America right now. If each church helped two families get on their feet if possible, welfare could be eliminated. Remember, there was a day when our country did not have welfare. Families and Christians helped each other. Now we have relied on the government and socialism is creeping in. Welfare seems to be the card some in government are playing to promote their socialist agenda.


Mo. House Speaker Tim Jones- bible in hand- said this from the House floor in April.

“We believe in the American dream, more importantly we believe in the Biblical dream, the Godly vision, which depends on every able bodied American to contribute and work because that is what God want for as individuals, as families, as communities. Ours is a society that has been the most prosperous in the world because it promises that people can keep what they earn but they must earn it by the sweat of their brow. In casting out Adam and Eve from the Garden of Paradise, the Lord did not leave them without hope. He gave them the blessing of work, of labor, of personal independence. This is a grace from God. Nations that guarantee benefits others have earned fail. Conservatives understand that and know that expansion is nothing more than massive growth of the welfare state and a direct threat to our long-term economic health, our families and our faiths. There is a reason why socialism and atheism go hand in hand.”


Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening to all !!

I have taken the time to read many of the comments on this thread. I have of course read the well written article by SueInCA, and am after reading all of this coming to the same conclusion I come to after contemplating almost every other issue I discuss here.

Religion, politics, discrimination, you name it all appears to return to the same root.

We ask ourselves, some of us, how can people be so adamant about this issue or that. How is it that they cannot see what is happening when religion, politics, or discrimination is being hijacked and utilized by those that would cherry pick evidence they find that meets their personal need.

How is it that there are so many different religions, most of them with generally the same principle in the the beginning but then somehow converting into what would appear to be a monstrosity like interstate highways or the world wide web. Yes people somehow find that thing in religion that goes along with or affirms what they choose to believe in order to feel comfortable with their practices and investigate no further.

How is it that some people can discuss their political party and say for example “I’m a republican but I don’t go along with much of the party platform or the right, right wing portion of the party.

I ask myself, how is it that some people can say, I do not discriminate, do not believe in discrimination but….

For me the answer is simple. We, many of us rather than educating ourselves on the issues, whether it be Religion, Politics, Discrimination or what have you, choose to investigate only so far. We tend to find that barrier that requires a bit more work in order to reach our goal and decide, oh well, I’ve read enough to understand and realize that the majority of this coincides with what I believe, that’s good enough for me.

Any person who studies Christianity in America should realize the religion has been utilize to dominate those that would think differently or in the early years appear different than those in power.

In politics, it is a bit more difficult because we have more or less a two party system that is tantamount to having one party, so we pick and choose between the good and bad policies of the party we subscribe to, again, only investigating to the point where our issue or in some cases issues appear to be addressed, and thereafter ceasing to investigate further we say, that is my party, after all, just look at the other party, they don’t subscribe to what I believe in and are not addressing my issues….and so what if the party I support doesn’t cover everything, they’re the lesser of the two evils. Instead of saying neither party completely addresses my issues so we need another party/more political parties that will address all of the needs of the people we accept that portion we can live with and move on. Many forget that this is supposed to be a government OF, BY, and FOR the people, all of the people, not just the wealthy or those that shout the loudest or spend more money to bribe politicians in order to get more of what they want.

I included discrimination in this list because whether you wish to agree with me or not, we fall into the same circumstance when it comes to discrimination, discriminatory practices in religion, politics and almost every other aspect of our lives. If we are in the majority, we tend to investigate a situation, if it appears to be against our principles, but doesn’t affect us personally, it is so easy for us to say: “I don’t agree with what is happening to those that are being put upon, and I really think something should be done to stop what is happening.” We leave it there, and do not in any way try to alleviate the suffering of others because well, it isn’t us inflicting the pain so just making a statement of dissent is sufficient and instead of investigating the situation and trying to do something that would allow our feelings regarding what is taking place to be realized, we move on.

We must remember to try to stamp out oppression wherever it occurs: Oppression is the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner. It can also be defined as an act or instance of oppressing, the state of being oppressed, and the feeling of being heavily burdened, mentally or physically, by troubles, adverse conditions or people, and anxiety. We oppress others when we refuse to allow them their equal rights under law, whether it be religious, political, or whatever.

Until we in this nation are of the mind that we are our brothers keeper, until we realize that we, and all that surrounds us are connected and that what happens to one of us has an effect on the rest of us, we will not be able to stop the religious right, the republican party or those in the democratic party that are not there for the best interest of the electorate. Until we investigate the history of this nation and together right the wrongs that have been committed in the name of ALL the citizens of this nation, from the Holocaust against the Native Americans to the enslavement of African Americans to discrimination against women or discrimination on the bases of sexual orientation, we will never get it right.

‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ this statement in the Bible has much meaning for me, I look upon it as a challenge, I also look upon it as saying, if you did not help others, you in effect did not help yourself.

If we do not stop as a people and learn to unite as a nation. If we do not take into consideration what is best for all of us in this nation, the rest of us around the world, and even Earth itself which is also a part of us, then the lack of interest in things that go beyond our personal circle will be what causes this nation to implode and those of us who realize how intertwined this nation is with the rest of the world also realize the implications of an imploded American Empire for the the rest of the world.

Sorry for such a long diatribe but this is the way I feel about the subject. You can’t just take one issue and believe that is the cause of the problems in the world. We have to begin with ourselves and work our way through solving the problems that cause so much unnecessary pain and suffering on this planet.


Sue, great article that resulted from a lot of work. Yes, it could happen. It did happen. After 9-11, we were lead in the wrong direction with war against Iraq. True, some knew it was wrong but we went. The axle of evil, the “with us or against us”, all the rhetoric you write about. Our country killed innocent people and our young military people were killed. You can again hear the drums of war pounding. The Religious Right are preparing for the Second Coming. Israel, do you know what that entails?
I do not believe in the Second Coming but I do know this: if Jesus were to come back, He would be appalled at what is being done in His name. His true teaches ignored. Greed and capitalism to the extreme was never His goals. The poor, the weak, the children where.

These people are as you say, Sue, dangerous and must be watched. Must be exposed. Their guns are in the hands of people that follow the rhetoric and want the fight. Our police forces are being supplied by the military industrial complex. No war? You still have to make stuff and it has to go somewhere or you don’t get the government substitutes. I’ll do my best, Sherlock, to expose them but I think I will be the subject of another Salem Witch Trial. I do not and will not believe as they do.


These “Christian” right groups may just succeed and the reason is laid out by Chris Hedges in an article he wrote. Here is some of the article and the link to the article if you would care to read it:

America the Illiterate

By Chris Hedges

November 16, 2008 “Truthdig” — – We live in two Americas. One America, now the minority, functions in a print-based, literate world. It can cope with complexity and has the intellectual tools to separate illusion from truth. The other America, which constitutes the majority, exists in a non-reality-based belief system. This America, dependent on skillfully manipulated images for information, has severed itself from the literate, print-based culture. It cannot differentiate between lies and truth. It is informed by simplistic, childish narratives and clichés. It is thrown into confusion by ambiguity, nuance and self-reflection. This divide, more than race, class or gender, more than rural or urban, believer or nonbeliever, red state or blue state, has split the country into radically distinct, unbridgeable and antagonistic entities.

There are over 42 million American adults, 20 percent of whom hold high school diplomas, who cannot read, as well as the 50 million who read at a fourth- or fifth-grade level. Nearly a third of the nation’s population is illiterate or barely literate. And their numbers are growing by an estimated 2 million a year. But even those who are supposedly literate retreat in huge numbers into this image-based existence. A third of high school graduates, along with 42 percent of college graduates, never read a book after they finish school. Eighty percent of the families in the United States last year did not buy a book.

The illiterate rarely vote, and when they do vote they do so without the ability to make decisions based on textual information. American political campaigns, which have learned to speak in the comforting epistemology of images, eschew real ideas and policy for cheap slogans and reassuring personal narratives. Political propaganda now masquerades as ideology. Political campaigns have become an experience. They do not require cognitive or self-critical skills. They are designed to ignite pseudo-religious feelings of euphoria, empowerment and collective salvation. Campaigns that succeed are carefully constructed psychological instruments that manipulate fickle public moods, emotions and impulses, many of which are subliminal. They create a public ecstasy that annuls individuality and fosters a state of mindlessness. They thrust us into an eternal present. They cater to a nation that now lives in a state of permanent amnesia. It is style and story, not content or history or reality, which inform our politics and our lives. We prefer happy illusions. And it works because so much of the American electorate, including those who should know better, blindly cast ballots for slogans, smiles, the cheerful family tableaux, narratives and the perceived sincerity and the attractiveness of candidates. We confuse how we feel with knowledge.

The illiterate and semi-literate, once the campaigns are over, remain powerless. They still cannot protect their children from dysfunctional public schools. They still cannot understand predatory loan deals, the intricacies of mortgage papers, credit card agreements and equity lines of credit that drive them into foreclosures and bankruptcies. They still struggle with the most basic chores of daily life from reading instructions on medicine bottles to filling out bank forms, car loan documents and unemployment benefit and insurance papers. They watch helplessly and without comprehension as hundreds of thousands of jobs are shed. They are hostages to brands. Brands come with images and slogans. Images and slogans are all they understand. Many eat at fast food restaurants not only because it is cheap but because they can order from pictures rather than menus. And those who serve them, also semi-literate or illiterate, punch in orders on cash registers whose keys are marked with symbols and pictures. This is our brave new world.


Sue, they are not real Christians. If they were they would be caring for the poor, the hungry, their neighbors, and NOT threatening to kill or return the refugees to their tormentors.

“Sarah Palin:
Go back to what our founders and our founding documents meant — they’re quite clear — that we would create law based on the God of the bible and the 10 Commandments.”

First, they are blaspheming when they say God wants them to kill. One of the commandments is not to kill.
They are breaking most if not all of them.


You can’t dismiss them by saying they are not real Christians. In their minds they believe they are as much of a Christian as you are. I believe we have to begin to say in effect, they are not “Christians” at all. You can’t be a Christian to a certain degree. You either are or you are not IMHO.


Great article SueInCA,

I will have to leave a comment for you later, I am on my way out for dinner and a movie right now. I have nothing but accolades for your well written and much needed post, and yes, I have read the book. I believe it should be required reading for the entire electorate, especially those who decide they would rather stay home and not vote during elections.


Terrific, Sue! Those quotations are absolutely chilling. Some of them sound like they could have come right out of the Inquisition. Talk about “forced conversions”!

Just today I was reading an article about these militia fanatics who are gathering on the Texas border to protect us all from terrified 6 year-olds. One of their most visible leaders is “Chris Davis, a 37-year-old truck driver who was discharged from the Army in 2001 “under other than honorable conditions in lieu of trial by court martial,” according to a summary of Davis’ military service obtained by the San Antonio Express-News.”

Here’s what Chris has to say about himself:”I believe in the King James Bible, The Constitution, and Bill of Rights! I am a Future Veteran of the Refounding. Molon Labe! III%! Spirit of 1776!”

I have no idea what the III% and the Molon Labe mean, but I can pretty much guess what “being a veteran of the Refounding” is all about.

Are these guys willing to resort to violence? Well, here are his instructions for what his militia boys are supposed to do if/when they encounter an “illegal”: he describes plans for “securing the border:” “How?” he asked on the video. “You see an illegal. You point your gun dead at him, right between his eyes, and you say, ‘Get back across the border or you will be shot.’ ”

I guess if the border crosser doesn’t understand English that’s his bad luck.

Granted, I think (well, hope anyway) that people this far off the rails are a minority, but there are many more people who fill the chairs in fundamentalist mega-churches every Sunday who are being taught that it has always been God’s will that this country be a Christian nation and it’s their mission to see that this happens.

The purported “literal inerrancy” of the Bible is gradually being extended to include the Constitution. More and more the word is that God virtually dictated the Constitution to the Founders. And they’re now elevated to the level of the original 12 Apostles. Challenging their interpretation of the Constitution is — increasingly — considered as strictly taboo as challenging the literal accuracy of the Bible. In other words: heresy.

Now, with the help of the Kochs, Capitalism (always with a capital C) is increasingly linked with America. The new holy trinity is Church-Constitution-Capitalism. Dare to challenge capitalism as being anything other than God’s own economic system? Once again: heresy.

And we all know what happens to heretics.

Like you, Sue, I’m hoping that Americans will soon start to connect the dots. (Not always easy, since they do love to operate in stealth mode, as you noted.)

Because if we don’t, one of these nights some of us are going to wake up with a Chris Davis in our bedroom. In full body armor.

And he’ll be packing plenty of holy heat.


In the United States of America, both the original Greek phrase and its English translation (Molon labe) are often heard from pro Second Amendment activists as a defense of the right to keep and bear arms. It began to appear on web sites in the late 1990’s and early 2000’s.

In the Second Amendment or firearms freedom context, the phrase expresses the notion that the person uttering the phrase is a strong believer in these ideals and will not surrender their firearms to anyone, especially to governmental authority. Challenge coins similar to those used by military service members have been created with the Molon Labe text and firearm images.

As for the III%:

Scary? You bet, and imagine this mess is connected to what these people think is Christian principles.

Don’t Tread on Us…. remind you of something?

I remember the Black Panther Party, a group that was nowhere near as extreme as these people. Remember what happened to them? Why isn’t the government tracking down and taking whatever means necessary to break up this organization the way they did the Black Panthers…I have my ideas, but I don’t have time to get into it right now.

Just know that these people are what you get from the Tea Party, the Molon labe, the III% and irrational Christian Right groups.


Monica, let them have their fire arms. But lets stop ammo from being made and sold.


If only that were possible, however I believe if these people couldn’t buy ammo for their weapons they would begin to create ammo or something much worse that would accomplish the destruction they appear to be addicted to.


Many thanks, Monica!

Sort of an equivalent to Dubya’s “Bring it on!”


And then that III% video — Good grief… if they weren’t so dangerous, they’d be laughable.

The background music. Really? The flaming skulls? The melodramatic and highly paranoid verbiage. How old are these people? 12?

But sadly, no. They’re alleged adults and they have ridiculous amounts of fire power thanks to the NRA.


These people IMHO have been indoctrinated by Koch ministries, the NRA, the White Supremacist movement, the Tea Party, Heretic Preachers and who knows how many other awful organizations that abound in this nation. Sad, but true, Sue is correct in her article when she says that our doom/defeat will come from within. It appears History does repeat itself….most Empires tend to implode.


And sadly, the feature that FOX News, Rush Limbaugh, the NRA, firebrand RW preachers , the Tea Party and the White Supremacist movement all have in common is that they all communicate rage. And — paradoxically — people seem to find that comforting.

I think it must somehow resonate with the fear and anger that they suppress every day of their lives, but aren’t allowed to express — or maybe have pushed down so deeply that they barely recognize its existence themselves.

But they know it when they hear it. They recognize it. And they say: “Hey, that guy gets it!”

Maybe the left needs to find a way to tap that anger vein without exploiting it. Respectfully. Because — really — people do have a lot to be mad about. But at this point a lot of them are blaming the wrong people and/or institutions.

Elizabeth Warren seems to be one person on the left who’s pissed off and I think that’s one reason she’s so popular. But the good thing is that she’s putting her anger-based energy into constructive activity.

It would be great if that would catch on.


Human manipulation. These guys, Rush and rest of them have learned how to manipulate their base, they first instill the fear into them and then exploit that same fear with every half truth and lie they can muster.


Kes, if these people are Christians they are NOT following Christs teachings. They are fakes! Radicals! Just as bad as the radicals of Islam or any other religion.They have perverted their religion.Changed it to suit their wishes.


Amen Nirek, that’s it in a nutshell. 🙂


Exactly, Nirek! If Christ came back in person, he’d be horrified at what these people are doing in his name.

Perversion of religion is a totally accurate description of what they’ve done.


Before making a substantive reply, may I please ask if you are going to repost this elsewhere? I would like permission to repost it at the Daily Kos. We will need a really catchy title and an equally catchy lead paragraph to catch the attention of the scanners over there but I think this is worth sharing.

At Amazon

Hardcover: 352 pages
Publisher: W. W. Norton & Company (July 1, 2013)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0393240118
ISBN-13: 978-0393240115

Have you seen the reviews for the work- all over the place? Reading them tells me that those who found the subject matter disagreeable were likely to rate it poorly….often arguing from a evangelical perspective.

More thoughts on this later.


It is the way they parse words that are the real danger. Dominion (to take care of) becomes domination (to take control of). It would be in all of our best interest to get a petition going to eliminate the faith-based initiatives before it is too late. And someone needs to take the Koch Bros out before they take us all out. Think this is hyperbole? Would you like for me to tell you
the story of my tattooed Bubbe (yiddish for grandmother)?


There’s a reason for those two simple words, no SLM?

“Never forget.”


Yes. But we have forgotten, in so many places, and for whatever reason, deem their citizens unworthy of rescue.