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AdLib On January - 10 - 2012

Tonight is the GOP primary in New Hampshire. The Dems are having one too, which should be as unsurprising as the GOP primary in terms of who will win.

Mitt Romney will almost certainly win tonight so the victor of the primary isn’t the story, it’s all about the margin of victory and who comes in after him and in what order.

Huntsman needs to come in very strong or he’s gone. Newt needs a strong showing or his role in SC will be locked into that of wreaking vengeance on Romney and nothing more. For Santorum to have a hope at being a top tier competitor and THE conservative choice, he needs to beat Newt. Ron Paul could be a surprise long distance runner in the primary, especially if he comes in 2nd in NH. Rick Perry is in South Carolina wondering where everyone else is.

You’re invited to join us tonight in this thread for thoughts and commentary about the developing results in New Hampshire and what they mean for these candidates as the primary moves forward.

Written by AdLib

My motto is, "It is better to have blogged and lost hours of your day, than never to have blogged at all."

341 Responses so far.

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  1. AdLib I promised to get back to you on turnout. The numbers do not look good for Repugs. The Republican turnout was down 16%. Obviously Independent and Democratic turnout was up but most of those voters will not vote in the general election for Romney since they supported Paul and some Huntsman.

    A similar thing happened in Iowa.

    NH turnout dropped 16% among actual Republicans


    The enthusiasm gap is no doubt on the GOP side so far especially considering the head winds the president is facing with the economy.

  2. SallyT says:

    Bito, I have been looking for Obama’s numbers in New Hampshire and can’t find them but I did find the following. The guy with the boot on his head looks like Castro to me.


  3. bito says:

    My thoughts exactly.

    Karoli Karoli
    I would rather watch fox news nonstop than fight over Hillary Clinton.

    Any and all discussion of the Biden/Clinton subject is the MSM saying “oh look, a squirrel”( any of various other members of the family Sciuridae, as the chipmunks, flying squirrels, and woodchucks.)

    Talking about celebrities getting a divorce is so much easier than actually discussing policy.

    • AdLib says:

      The MSM is a bit worried right now that they will lose out on a lot of advertising bucks if the GOP nom is decided quickly. So, as usual, they invent a new “controversy” intended to keep people watching their lame pundits.

      This is a totally manufactured and 100% phony “issue”. I guarantee that Obama, Biden, Hillary and the entire Obama admin have said nothing to give any validity to this BS story.

      So, as Karoli says, let’s not waste time energy or create the division the MSM and GOP would like to see by arguing over whether Superman would beat The Hulk in a fight.

      • bito says:

        At times the MSM remarks about the huge amount of money in campaigns. Huh, 85% of the monies goes to TV advertising, how much will they really mention. bitch and moan about the travesty of the Citizens United or the cost of campaigns? How else can they pay the talking heads and pudnuts millions without those advertising bucks?

        Who said (a complete paraphrase) ” don’t trust the opinion of anyone when their answer depends on their livelihood” ?

        • Nirek says:

          I have trouble listening to the talking heads when they start talking over each other. Not only that , but they do not know any more than we do. Maybe less than most of us.

  4. MurphTheSurf3 says:


    Just saw Rick Perry hand Hannity his lunch on Fox!!!!!

    Perry had a GREAT attack on Romney flawlessly delivered re. Bain and businesses in Gaffney and Georgetown SC.

    Hannity pulled out all of his tricks and could not get Perry to flinch.

    Made a strong case for the South being different and now it was Romney’s chance to show if he could face the heart of the GOP.

    If THAT Perry had been around from the start, it would be a different race.

    • Khirad says:

      It’s called the Southern Conservative Protestant Evangelical vote.

      Yeah, it’s a tad different demographically.

      This is what I think Perry’s strategists told him when he went back to Texas to “reassess.”

      Two Mormons, two Catholics, and well, Ron Paul are all that’s left.

      Not hard math. Still, I doubt there’s enough anti-Catholic sentiment left in Dixie for that to pan out for Perry who has a host of bigger problems.

      Still, I love that Perry and Gingrich are going for the jugular. It’s been so awesome to see Democratic talking points taken up by the GOP candidates. It will make general commercials so much easier. In Obama’s Chicago reelection HQ they’re probably lapping it all up like Manna from Heaven.

      • Nirek says:

        And not one of them with enough intelligence to beat Obama.
        Sure President Obama has done some things I disagree with but he is far better than the present crop of GOP candidates.

    • SallyT says:

      Murph, I don’t watch FOX, so, who are they for now? I heard some talking on MSNBC that the powers of be are telling Gingrich to back off of Romney and his business past because he looks like he is going to be the nominee and they don’t want him torn up too much. So, has FOX now got behind Romney? Of course, they say the south will be a real test for Romney, however. Unemployment in SC is 9.9. It was 5.5 in Iowa and NH. Bain is not popular in SC, either.

      • MurphTheSurf3 says:

        Fox lined up solidly behind Romney with 24/7 coverage in defense of him and his Bain connections. They have shaped it as a defense of the American capitalist system and have accused Gingrich et. al. of taking up Obama’s socialist cause.

        It could be much rougher going in SC.

      • AdLib says:

        It would be sweet to see Romney trying to keep that phony smile on his face in SC after losing to someone there. Whether it happens in the primary or not, I’m confident it will happen in the GE.

        • MurphTheSurf3 says:

          Will the plastic man suffer from the heat in the Palmetto State?

          • AdLib says:

            It will be very interesting to see where the GOP machine in SC goes. I don’t think they can shut down Perry but they could threaten Gingrich enough to shut him down.

            Newt, like all bullies, is in the end, a coward. We’ve seen that repeatedly in this race alone. So, only time will tell as to whether his spite or his fear wins out.

          • AdLib says:

            We all know what happens to plastic when it’s subjected to severe heat.

            The headline could read “Romney Gets Bent”.

            It all depends on whether Newt pulls back from attacking Romney full bore and if Rick Perry pours all he can into hammering Romney.

            Romney is not a fighter, people like him who’ve been born with a silver spoon in their mouth don’t have any experience in having to fight for themselves. They’ve had money, lawyers, etc. to fight for them.

            That’s why he’s so easily startled and that’s why I think Obama will mop the floor with him.

            • AdLib says:

              Sally, that’s a good question. I do think Newt is all about doing what most gratifies him so the question is, will the GOP Elite make him a financial offer he can’t refuse or will Newt find revenge the tastier dish?

              We’ll see but he sure looked whipped tonight.

            • MurphTheSurf3 says:

              The GOP organizers in SC are still very powerful. They can shut down Newt if they choose to. The question is will they? It comes down to whether the inevitable is acceptable to those who represent core GOP audiences. If Mitt is ok with them, they can push the rest to the edges.

            • SallyT says:

              AdLib, if Gingrich is as self-serving as you have said, do you really think he will back off of Romney? He has been pissed that the powerstobe Republs having been supporting him and made comments to that effect. All he has to lose is this race. He will still have his books and speaking fees. Oh yes, and his history teachings. Why not go for broke. Be the guy that bucked the establishment. Does he have that in him or is he all talk?

    • bito says:

      Wow, battle of wits! Hannity and Perry.

    • AdLib says:

      Wish I had seen that! Perry is a child and children aren’t good at debating but they excel at being spiteful (as well as nice things too).

      Perry is at the end of his rope and he’s watching his dreams of the Presidency, so reachable just a couple months ago, evaporate into nothingness.

      This is it, his farewell from the national scene as a moron and the biggest loser of the pack…unless he can somehow turn it around in SC or at least go out saving face with a decent showing.

      So, he is doing what he does best, be a small minded hater but to our benefit, he has to hate on Romney if he wants any chance of reviving his dream.

      Hope he isn’t muted by the bullying of the GOP elite as it looks like might be happening with Gingrich. It’s fun to watch Romney squirm with that phony smile plastered on his face and it would look to be the last chance to deny Romney a primary win.

      • MurphTheSurf3 says:

        Remember my thesis that the fix was in.

        Well it may prove to be so just a few days late.

        BUT Perry came off as calm, cool, collected, self assured, knowledgeable, sensible and sharp.


        • choicelady says:

          Aliens took the real Perry. Left this one. Too late.

        • AdLib says:

          Yep, I think you were ahead of your time on this.

          The pressure has no doubt been ongoing but now that Romney has won two straight, I think the hammer is really coming down.

          Sununu has been publicly threatening Newt and others and Jim DeMint released a statement tonight supporting Romney (though not endorsing) and attacking those who are attacking him.

          Newt sure looked like a whipped dog tonight, he may or may not give into the pressure but it sure sounds like Perry, who has been attacked by Romney’s people from the beginning, isn’t going to cooperate with them now at the sake of losing face.

          • MurphTheSurf3 says:

            Your last comment….great analysis of the opposing forces at work in the GOP. I sense real panic in the ranks. The idea of the big money powerbrokers threatening Newt and the Ricks is incredible. Do they think they can keep this quiet or that it will work? You named it- a coronation will not be acceptable or accepted.

            • AdLib says:

              It’s hardly a secret at this point, they’ve publicly fired warning shots across the bows of the anti-Romneys. And you’re right, there does seem to be a panic they’re trying to hide, the RW is still fervently trying to come together behind their own candidate before the barn door is shut while the GOP Elite are trying to slam the door shut and lock it tight.

              At the same time, the Elite have to be worried at least a little that they will alienate their base by cutting them out from choosing the party’s candidate.

              SC will be fascinating and could be a GOP bloodbath in many ways.

          • MurphTheSurf3 says:

            Driving deeper and deeper wedges into the party….?

            • AdLib says:

              That’s the whole thing that’s being overlooked by the all-powerful, all-not-seeing GOP Elite…the GOP Base.

              The Repub Elite think, as Cheney once explained, that they create reality.

              So they wanted Obama elected?

              In this case, their coronation of Romney may seem like genius but how will the Ron Paul supporters, the social conservatives, the Tea Party and those who (unfortunately) dislike Mormons respond to having an undesirable nominee foisted upon them before they even have a chance to vote?

              I do see at a minimum a real decline in enthusiasm by the base and at most, a revolt in the party with many refusing to get on board.

              There’s a reason that dictators are overthrown elsewhere in the world, the GOP Elite might learn more about that soon.

  5. SallyT says:

    I like how one of these commentators said it was a win for Utah tonight. Two mormons in the top 3. Yah, 2 mormons, 2 catholics, one old loony toon, and one that can’t count pass 2. Winners!

  6. Chernynkaya says:

    This is pure silliness but it made me LOL!!
    “Ron Paul Has A Freaking Giant”


    More photos of that fella here--he’s a big’un!

  7. AdLib says:

    Zoom out for a moment and think about this. Right now, Obama who is President over an economy that’s ailing, high unemployment, great dissatisfaction about government and incumbents and is being attacked incessantly by seven Republicans getting lots of media time…is still beating all of the Repubs including Romney in most reliable polls.

    Is this not a point where Romney should be at his highest point against Obama in the polls? Before Obama and the Dem machine has begun campaigning against him?

    If Obama is winning a fight right now where he has been punched constantly and he has hardly lifted a glove, where should the polls and votes be once he lets loose on Romney?

    I don’t put a great deal of stock in polls this early but the fact that a challenger to the President who’s residing over such tough times, is behind in the polls, sure seems to indicate great advantages ahead for Obama.

    • funksands says:

      Ad, I couldn’t agree more. I honestly think this is the first really visible sign of the illness of the GOP as a national party. On a local level, guys like Louie Gohmert can still win a Congressional seat, but nationally they are sick.

      Obama has no business being in the position he is in at this point in the race, given the headwinds he’s had to fight alone.

      • AdLib says:

        Yep, even though they would be meaningless early polls, they should be showing Romney well ahead of Obama right now if only as a Fantasyland alternative to the way things are in the country now.

        That’s the way things have been historically so as you say, this reflects huge weakness in the GOP and their platforms and candidates.

        How can you not have your candidates, who have only been hammering Obama, not be beating him with 8.5% unemployment and a government in gridlock?

        I think it’s very telling and though we will have to work hard this year, I think Obama will end up winning re-election decisively.

    • Kerry was double digits up on Bush in comparison when he won the nomination early. I guess when Mitt is the nominee is the time to start looking at polls but in reality polls don’t matter until after conventions.

      • AdLib says:

        It’s just an indicator but shouldn’t be taken as the way things are.

        But as an indicator, it sure seems to undercut popular support for replacing Obama with Romney.

  8. LFer says:

    I posted these thoughts about Romney’s victory on that other website, you know, the one that shall not be named.

    I’m sorry to see Mr. Romney polling so well. Lets see what his experience at Bain might tell us about a Romney administra­tion.

    Corporate raiders like Bain buy up businesses and load them up with debt. Then they sell off the valuable bits and force a regimen of austerity on the company -- downsizing and layoffs, outsourcin­g and offshoring­. In other words the customers, employees and their communitie­s take it in the shorts so the financiers don’t have to. And then the vulture capitalist­s walk away from the whole mess, their pockets bulging with money.

    Corporatis­t politician­s have already loaded up the country with debt. The next step is to bring in someone to sell off (privatize) the valuable bits and force a regimen of austerity on the country -- downsizing and layoffs, outsourcin­g and offshoring­. In other words the 99% will take it in the shorts so the 1% don’t have to. And then the corporatis­t politician­s will walk away from the whole mess, their pockets bulging with money.

    Is this really what Republicans think is best for America?

    • AdLib says:

      Consider this LFer, Romney’s popularity for being a hedge fund vulture is exactly what will cut against him in the GE. So, it’s a good thing he’s popular with the GOP cult for what will hurt him in the GE.

      I am growing more and more confident that Romney will prove to be a far weaker and easy to damage candidate than some may suspect right now. He has a glass jaw and is the symbol of everything the public opposes. He’s going to be in defense mode constantly and that’s not a path to winning.

      • I listen to part of Romney’s speech again and he’s acting like it’s 2008. He kept on saying Obama “wants to” make the US into noun verb Europe. Well how come Obama did not do that already Mittens since he had both chambers in Congress? Oh yeah he passed Obamacare that is close to Romneycare with better benefits and cost controls. So he can’t even attack Obama’s record with any credibility and just tries to scare us about what Obama would do in the future.

        The guy is so transparently bad it’s not funny.

        • AdLib says:

          That’s sure how it looks to me. When Romney can’t be preaching to the choir of the GOP, I think he hits a ceiling in polls and votes that he simply won’t be able to break through.

    • funksands says:

      LFer your observations are accurate. Guys like Romney view America as a host to be fed upon. It’s nothing personal, predators just eat.
      And no, I don’t believe that Republicans think this is best for America. I don’t believe that Republicans believe in much of anything.

      They exist as a delivery system for political power and money to the top .0005% The Family is the perfect symbiosis of that belief.

      Every year they ratchet up the rhetoric, move further right, until all they have left is jingoism, fantasy, platitudes, and single-celled organisms running for office.

      But they are too far in to turn back now. They won’t stop until they are stopped. For those bankrolling the party, there is too much money at stake. For those minions who serve those masters there is too much power at stake. For those poor suckers who vote for them, there is victory over the enemy at stake.

  9. One thing is for sure. The GOP establishment have stomped down any further attacks on Romney’s days at Bain Capital. Because they know that’s his glass jaw.

    • AdLib says:

      That’s great, it preserves it for Obama during the GE! Imagine if Hillary was stopped from attacking Obama on Rev. Wright and McCain brought it up near election day.

      The less that comes out in the primary leaves a lot more to bury him with in the GE.

      • Chernynkaya says:

        {{{Applause!}} For your comment and also for those powers that be. I love it!

      • MurphTheSurf3 says:

        With you on that. No matter how good the attack, once it gets old, it gets stale.

        Further, Obama can broaden the attack as part of his narrative that Wall Street became a predator in the post Reagan years feasting on easy kills in the U.S. economy. Bain is one of those predators and its founder bears responsibility for the beast.

        • AdLib says:

          It’s a necessary component of the whole OWS/99%/economic injustice platform and Romney represents all the evil of the 1%.

          It’s a huge minefield ahead for ROmney but he’s running through a grassy field in the GOP primary thinking that this is what it’s like.

          He’s in for a rude awakening.

      • Yup and they still have the sound bites from the GOP candidates as well.

  10. Chernynkaya says:

    WTF?? Biden: Romney’s “I like being able to fire people” comment probably taken out of context http://njour.nl/wVtkQ3

    • bito says:

      Cher, perhaps he shouldn’t have said it, off message, but he is right in a way. The point I think that should have been made was that Romney was slap wrong about choosing an HC insurance company. Under the ACA exchange one can choose their insurance company. Mitt was making it sound like “Big Gubment” was your only choice.

      BTW, Mitt saying he “liked” firing” people is totally sick, I absolutely hated the times when I had to layoff people due to RIF (reduction in force) when a job was winding down. They were people, my coworkers, my friends/buddies, who had families and bills.

      #Mittsongs Heart of Stone

      • Chernynkaya says:

        bito, most everyone I read acknowledges that the comment was taken out of context, but as you point out, it was even worse IN context. Did you see the article by James Fallows in today’s DP? He said the same as you. What was the worst thing about what Romney said was the word “like.”

        • bito says:

          No Cher, I didn’t read read Mr. Fallows, he either read my tweets or he is a very smart fellow. :-)
          Now if if I could get someone to notice that the biggest failed answer in the Sunday N.H. debates was how they could instill/develop cooperation with the Dems in Congress and get their “dream-book” proposals passed. They all had a major fail on that question and it went non-reported.

        • AdLib says:

          That’s what I’ve been seeing and that is the salient point, Romney LIKES to be able to fire people. He is a job killer and loves the power of that. The more he makes his case for “Free Enterprise” to destroy the lives of the little people to make profits for the execs and owners, the more damage is done to him.

    • SallyT says:

      Biden is just covering his butt for when someone quotes him. “It was taken out of context!”

    • Maybe Obama should take on Hillary as VP, just saying.

      • AdLib says:

        First, it would never happen.

        Second, I doubt she wants to be Obama’s VP.

        Third, it would make Obama look like he’s betraying Biden out of desperation.

        Every time a President runs for re-election, such BS rumors make the rounds. Remember the rumor about Bush dropping Cheney in 2004?

        • SallyT says:

          Roosevelt replaced Wallace with Truman. Of course, Roosevelt had been there longer than any other president. But, they replaced Wallace because they didn’t think he would get elected after Roosevelt and they were looking ahead. True that Truman only squeaked by in getting elected but he did it and won. I agree with you that Hillary probably isn’t interested. However, it is something to think about when looking at the election after Obama.

        • Chernynkaya says:

          AL, I know it won’t happen, but consider this: Biden always said he wanted to be SoS, and Hillary said she might want to quit after the first term. So it wouldn’t necessarily be seen in a bad light.

        • bito says:

          Bush #1 and the wounded quail?

      • Chernynkaya says:

        KQ, I know everyone pooh-poohs that idea, and says never happen, but I love the idea. I never thought Biden was all that, and Hillary would be a real bonus.I ma nit looking forward to Biden in the campaign trail. He’s such a pol and sounds phony to me.

        • choicelady says:

          Cher -- he won my heart when, after Obama won, he and his wife were on Oprah. He said of course HE wanted to win, but in terms of history and significance, “We got it right.” His affirmation of the importance of Obama’s victory historically, of a Black president, was glowing in his eyes and smile. THAT is something I will never forget. He meant every word.

          He’s a loose lip, that’s for sure, but he’s also the POOREST Senator we have, even after all his years in the Senate which means he did not find ways to enrich himself, and there are many good things about him. I will also love him for whispering to Obama just as health care reform passed, “This is a big fucking deal!” I find I’m always laughing WITH him, never AT him. I just plain like him.

        • SallyT says:

          Cher, I heard them talking on TV the other night about Hillary being the VP canidate and it was said she would be the most qualified VP since Adams. Also, in looking at 2016 she would have a better chance at getting the WH and getting it kept in Dems hands for 16 years. And, they think it will take that to get the country completely turned around. Something to think about.

          • choicelady says:

            I just cannot trust her, Sally. She’s an admirer of Doug Coe, leader of “The Family”, the ultra right wing Christians on C Street. She has made him her personal pastor -- and he’s not even ordained! She has huge corporate ties, and she worked too cozily with some of the WORST of the GOP Senators -- Coburn for one. She once was someone I deeply admired -- but I’ve lost a lot of respect for her. And I don’t bloody trust her at all.

            • SallyT says:

              CL, you have valid concerns there. I don’t really go along with prayer groups in general anyway. Prefer to keep those to myself. I am mostly concerned that we don’t have a followup to Obama. She was just mentioned in that conversation I stated. The Republs have Christie in mind. We have ???? I don’t see it being Biden. I mentioned the Governor of Montana to Bito. I like that guy and he is a real cowboy. But, I probably don’t know enough about him either.

          • Chernynkaya says:

            Sally, the thing is, I think she said she doesn’t want to run again. Also, she’s quitting as SoS after the election.

            • SallyT says:

              Khirad, I hope he doesn’t take any from the Senate or the House. We need all we have there!

            • AdLib says:

              Khirad, I’ve been pleased with her as SoS as well but I share CL’s discomfort with her in the position of President for the solid reasons she explains.

              As for her replacement, they will have big shoes to fill, Hillary really distinguished herself in that role.

              Wonder who Obama will choose.

            • Khirad says:

              I’ve actually become a fan of her as SoS.

              Will be a shame to see her go.

              I’ve forgotten, but who are they floating as her successor, or is it all just idle speculation?

              I remember back in 2008 it was at first thought to be between Kerry and Richardson.

              Just leave Kerry where he is. Richardson would be decent, especially with a new North Korea, but I’m hoping for someone else altogether.

            • SallyT says:

              Bito, are you ignoring me???? Don’t make me look like Perry!

            • AdLib says:

              Bito, absolutely we will need to see where she is on many issues, as we will when she is elected Senator (knock wood).

              I do know quite a bit about her though and she has solid Progressive sensibilities on every issue I’ve ever heard he speak about.

              She’s a straight talker, smart, tough and principled. Everything about her speaks of reason and pragmatism so, while it’s possible, I would be very surprised if she had any positions on issues that weren’t well reasoned and sensible.

              I’m getting way ahead of things by suggesting her now, she’s got a tough fight just to become Senator and as you say, we haven’t heard her positions on all the issues but I do think we will as her campaign for Senate goes on and I’ll bet they’ll be as solid as her positions on the things we do know about.

              She’s a superstar in the making. I heard a report from the Dem Party Chairman in MA who said he’s stunned at how easy it’s been to raise money for her, easier than it was to raise money for Ted Kennedy he said.

              People are passionate about Warren, I would be thrilled to see her rolling up her sleeves in the Senate. And if that works out…maybe something bigger.

            • bito says:

              @AdLib, I wasn’t disagreeing on Warren, I was mentioning history.

              But now I will disagree. What do we know of her positions on foreign policy and many other topics. She has never held an elected position, so exactly what are her views and has zero legislative experience-Senator Obbama (both state and federal did.) I want her in the Senate and allow her to get her “feet wet” before throwing into the pool. She is hated by R’s as much as Dems love her.

            • AdLib says:

              Bito, remember that Dem Senator from IL who ran in 2008? 😆

              I think Warren is the type of candidate that could whip up huge enthusiasm, not only as potentially being the first woman to be President but as being someone who is boldly Progressive and fearless. She has the charisma and brains and down-to-Earth, anti-establishment sensibility that could electrify people across parties.

              I can’t think of anyone else who has that potential right now. Sure, she needs to be elected Senator first but I think she will win.

              As for Hillary, she is very well liked now and would be formidable but the RW had compiled a punishing mountain of attacks on her for 2008, thinking she would be the nominee and she would be carrying all the baggage from the past which when brought back to light, could be challenging to overcome.

              Warren has no baggage and would be more like Obama, someone who comes from humble beginnings, spent her life working for the greater good of Americans and has a conviction about changing the way things are.

              When Obama gave his speech in 2004 for Kerry, I said to my wife, “I wish he was running for President.”

              I am pleased to be supporting Obama in 2012 but in 2016, I would love to be able to support Warren in a run for President.

            • SallyT says:

              Okay, Bito, a governor….how about Brian Schweitzer. To much a long shot? I like that guy myself.

            • SallyT says:

              Ad Lib, she might be a good one. Like Cher, I think we need to get someone ready to run. You know that the Repubs have Christie in mind. I don’t like that guy at all. Elizabeth probably could handle him.

            • AdLib says:

              Elizabeth Warren 2016?

            • bito says:

              History says: Senators do not fair well running for prez. Think Rep or Gov.

            • Chernynkaya says:

              Sally, the Party needs to start grooming someone asap. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Sherrod Brown.

            • funksands says:

              Too bad. I thought she was an excellent SOS

            • SallyT says:

              Cher, I am with you on her not being interested. She must be tired. But, VP is nothing like SOS. Gee, she hasn’t been home very much, has she? The VP doesn’t do that much traveling. But, I do think we have to look at the election after Obama. It is going to take more than 8 years to get the things done that have to be done before they “F” it up again!

        • I was saying it tongue in cheek but the idea does intrigue me for some reason.

      • choicelady says:

        Naw -- Biden is a truly nice guy. He always gives the benefit of the doubt. But he ROCKS at the policy things he does. I definitely do NOT want Hillary. I don’t trust her at ALL. Biden was born foot-in-mouth, but he is the LEAST wealthy US Senator and has a great heart and good mind. Just that loose lip thingy…

  11. bito says:

    Excuse me, Andrea Greenspan sucks dead bears.

    EDIT: IMHO 😉

  12. Brokaw needs to give it up for good the totally GOP turnout is down so Romney did not win as many independents as McCain did last time. It was not an impressive win for Romney.

  13. AdLib says:

    Okay, I get it. Throughout the campaign, all the Repubs talk about is how horrible everything is then in their after-primary speeches, they blather about how wonderful things are going to be.

    How childish is the public, do they listen to these phonies seesawing back and forth between doom and fantasy in their quest to manipulate and recognize it or are they like puppies who don’t care about what’s gone before as long as they’re getting scratched behind the ear right now?

    • choicelady says:

      But did you hear HUNTSMAN’s speech???? It was rousing, and called for all kinds of wonderful things we need done!

      Every single thing is something PBO is already doing.

      I thought it was the BEST pro-Obama speech I’ve heard in years!!!

      Thanks, Mr. Huntsman -- your support for our president’s accomplishments is duly noted.

    • bito says:

      Actually Newtie did mention that he would need both chambers of Congress to get anything done, the others spew their wish list like a kid looking at a “Christmas Wish Book” catalog without ever mentioning that fact. Something Dems need to keep in mind. It takes a congress!

    • MurphTheSurf3 says:

      The public is largely uninformed, uncommitted and unreasoning. They respond to the propaganda that best fits their world view.

      • AdLib says:

        And maybe they don’t even have a world view, they just want someone to convince them that good things will happen soon. If the messenger can’t sell their story well enough, the public buys into the other candidate’s story. And that’s where Romney’s in trouble.

        • MurphTheSurf3 says:

          One of my neighbors here in rural Missouri, a farmer as many of my neighbors are, says that he is sure that the Libs are ruining the country because they let all the blacks and hispanics into the country which caused the economy to collapse in 2008 and they are setting us up for an Iranian takeover of the Middle East.

          There is no talking with the man.

          That is a world view. Insane, totally misinformed but anxious for any bit of info, no matter how warped, that supports it.

          • SallyT says:

            Murph, you must be in eastern Missouri. My dad was a farmer on the westside of the state and you could never say Republican in his presences or anyone else at the country diner. Of course, corporate farming has changed a lot of things.

            • SallyT says:

              Sorry, Murph, that it is that way there. My dad drove his tractor to the Capitol protesting Reagan. I think your neighbors need to take another look at history to see who attacked the farmers. But, us “Show Me State” folks can be hard headed. (That includes me.) You keep up the fight and if I get back home I will join you!

            • MurphTheSurf3 says:

              I am from the East. BTW folks around here blame the libs for agribusiness too.

          • choicelady says:

            Oh, Murph, I’m sorry. You can’t fix stupid. Hope there are others around you who are at least intelligent? You deserve better than that for neighbors.


            • MurphTheSurf3 says:

              They are who I am stuck with. Imagine working for Dems and for Obama here. But I do it.

        • SueInCa says:

          I would bet 80 percent of the population has no world view Adlib

          • MurphTheSurf3 says:


            World views need not be elegant or complex. If I work on the belief that black folks are out to get me and that liberals prefer black folks to me, and that white folk got to stick together or the whole country will be lost….then the election of Barack Obama is a catastrophe. Every event, whether accurately reported or misshapen that endorses this belief supports my worldview.

            • SueInCa says:

              I agree Murph, you just have to be curious and want to learn. It can be the base facts but come on learn something. Be curious, open your mind.

          • AdLib says:

            Sue, I do think that the lack of teaching critical thinking to kids and adults and the advances in marketing research, convincing people that what they want most they can have quickly and easily, contributes to the dismal state of long term thinking and reason in the American public.

          • AdLib says:

            Sadly, I agree with that. Most Americans have such short term thinking, as the 2010 elections proved…putting back in office in less than 2 years, the same party that destroyed our economy…then once in, they continued to do so!

            Never underestimate the short term memory of the American Public.

            • SueInCa says:

              I don’t know when we fell so far and I don;t buy the video games and such. My grandon is a player and he knows a lot about history for his age group. We challenge him all the time. Perhaps that is what is missing.,

  14. AdLib says:

    I’m running a bit behind on Tivo but Huntsman said, “Iraq is not our future.”

    Huh? He’s the foreign policy expert and doesn’t know that we’ve pulled out of Iraq?

    So Obama is attacked by some Repubs for pulling out our troops and by others for having them in…when they aren’t.

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