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choicelady On September - 4 - 2011

Between SueinCA’s amazing posts on Dominionism, especially the lovely folks at C Street, and all the flap over C Street’s abetting of adultery and every other form of perverse Christian “exceptionalism”, we at the Planet are probably better informed than most about the threat of fundamentalism to American democracy.

Now we have another, highly-readable offering that brings us up to date on current happenings.  God, Guns, and Greed: A Dangerous Path for America by Leah Burton outlines and details political threats to democracy from Dominionism as they are being embodied by the current crop of GOP presidential and other candidates.  The book is available today Sept. 4.  Leah is my friend and colleague, and, truth in advertising – I have content in the book but am NOT making money from it.

Drawing from years of research and a personal familiarity with the Alaskan politics that spawned the Star of Dominionism – Sarah Palin – Ms. Burton offers accessible insight not just to C Street but to the breadth and depth of the New Apostolic Reformation as it seeks power, high and low, throughout America.   Quoting from participants, she lets their words show the passion and commitment Dominionists have to taking over America– and the world.

Because Dominionists believe that they are “the chosen” they seek not an expanded view of democracy but a narrowed one.  They seek to make America either a theocracy or at least a Christian country, in either case with them at the helm of the seven essential parts of the nation – The Seven Mountains – including government, the military, family, education, culture, media, and business.  The elect will make happy alliances with the non-saved or even non-believers (think Dick Cheney, Rupert Murdoch, the Koch brothers) just so long as the infidels defer to and promote the interests of  the True Believers.

Americans tend to respect other people’s religions.  We have been immune from holy wars, and while discrimination (restrictive covenants etc.) are part of our history, the gradual movement has been to fulfill Constitutional promises of a land free for all believers and non-believers alike.

That is the key target of Dominionism – undoing the first amendment and imposing a religiously-biased government upon everyone.  God, Guns, and Greed explores the range of successes from school boards to campaigns for the White House that has brought Dominionism perilously close to capturing power over the nation.

This is a must-read for everyone who wants to understand who got elected in 2010 and is vying for power in 2012.  These are not your “values voting” candidates who can occasionally forge compromises.  These are the absolutists who will never back down, never share power, never yield to the idea of universal rights, full democracy, and a more equal nation.

Read this book.  And be very afraid – then work to stop this march of the theocrats.  Act as if your very life depends on stopping this force because it does.

You may order God, Guns, and Greed online at www.godgunsandgreed.com.  It will be in chain and independent bookstores in early October.

Categories: Books, Featured, GOP

Written by choicelady

I am the public policy director for a large, very progressive faith organization. We believe in science, democracy, full equality for all people (NO exceptions), peace, and justice. We respect other people, but it doesn't mean we share their views. Nice to have a world of progressive thought. Rather like finally getting fresh air after a very smoggy day!

62 Responses so far.

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  1. Emerald1943 says:

    We have not been discussing the issue of Dominionism in the past several days…lots of other fish to fry. But I feel this is too important to let it fall between the cracks.

    Here is a link to an article and an excerpt of it that I found over at “Talk to Action” today regarding C. Peter Wagner, who is not particularly happy about the press the New Apostolic Reformation has been receiving lately.



    “…(Wagner’s)responses are to the complaints of conservative evangelicals, Charismatics, and Fundamentalists, who are objecting to: 1) NAR-initiated changes to the internal structure of churches and reorganization under the authority of apostles; 2) the NAR’s specific brand of spiritual warfare and obsession with demons; and 3) the use of this concept of spiritual warfare for the purpose of taking “dominion” over institutions of society and government in the natural world.”


    There could not be any group, movement, or organization (religious or otherwise) that is any more antithetical to everything we as American liberals hold dear. There could not be any more dangerous movement than that of the New Apostolic Reformation and the goals they seek! They now have candidates, plenty of money, and the votes of the faithful. We simply cannot take our eyes off the ball here! If left to their own devices, they will make the tea party look like a bunch of rank amateurs as they set about wrecking our democracy!

    I know I’m not alone here at PPOV in thinking that these people and their “Seven Mountains” need to be under constant scrutiny!

  2. ADONAI says:

    choice and Sue, I hope you don’t mind but I’d like to put this debate on pause. You are right. I don’t know enough about your side and it’s not fair to just dismiss it without learning more. So I’m gonna do some reading and get back to you.

    • Emerald1943 says:

      Hey Adonai, may I suggest that you read Sue’s series here on PPOV? This is, I believe, the most comprehensive over-view you will find. She did an amazing job! This is an issue that she was working on a couple of years ago. Only now is it becoming “front and center” again because of Rick Perry’s association with these people. IMO, enough cannot be said about it. Everybody needs to know what these people are up to!

      Also, Jeff Sharlet’s book “The Family” is another good place to begin. Sharlet actually infiltrated the C Street group and learned what they were doing, something that I believe could be dangerous considering the powerful men involved. I think that after you check this out, you’ll understand that CL and Sue both are not exaggerating at all…these people are really dangerous! They have a really ugly and destructive agenda…and they are winning in many areas. You gotta’ hand it to them for thinking “big”…world domination! And that’s not hyperbole!

      I am interested in knowing what you think after you have checked it all out! 🙂

    • SueInCa says:

      Not a problem. Choice and I could probably recommend a library to you for reading. Just let us know. I realize we are passionate abut this but like CL says we have been following this for awhile. If after reading you still hold the same opinion, then we just have to agree and respect each other’s opinions.

    • choicelady says:

      We are always ready to talk. We’ve been watching this for a very long time which is why we are worried. Let us know if you have questions. We love you, Adonai -- we want to help, not to win an argument.

  3. choicelady says:

    Thank you to whoever fixed my graphics! I am SUCH a klutz!

    BTW -- this is NOT the cover of the book -- it was a prototype but is now very different. But it shows some of the web of relationships (albeit not very clearly here) that is spelled out in the book.

    Just thought I’d make that clear?

  4. The first amendment is pretty clear in it’s implications regarding the separation of church and state. BUT, I truly fear it is not clear enough for a number of Americans who see no problem with mixing religion and legislation and religious judicial activism. I think we need a possible amendment that leaves no doubt what-so-ever about separation of church and state. Of course, the first amendment should be clear enough, for anybody with a high school education. But I think the “establishment clause” is seen by these theological manipulators as a reason to cast doubt about our founders intent. There should be no room for doubt about this issue. The dangers to our government and our society are just too great.

    • M Cubed says:

      Kilgore, I have heard their argument as being: it prevents the state from interfering in my religion, but it says nothing about my religion interfering with the state. This frightens the oatmeal out of me!

      • M, that is my point. I know it will never happen, to have to write a new amendment in the Constitution, but I really do think it should leave no doubt as to the meaning of the Establishment Clause. For the very reason you mention.

    • choicelady says:

      KT -- well, you’d think so, wouldn’t you? But when you’re God’s Chosen, apparently WE are just deluded.

      Their motto: Jesus loves you. But I’m his favorite.

      So clearly you are not entitled to the Constitution since, well, it’s THEIRS. As they will be more than happy to tell you.

  5. choicelady says:

    Having read everyone’s reply below I must admit I’m worried that even good people such as Em’s brother-in-law never even heard of this, of these people. We who have followed this trail are hoping it gets a lot more attention now that Leah’s book is out -- her publicist is rounding up appearances on talk shows and book signings and has GREAT contacts. Rachel Maddow has already had a Dallas, TX newpaper reporter on who actually used the WORD Dominionism, and once the MSM gets its teeth into the idea, it will move -- but in time?

    The Sacramento Bee had, as its top of the fold front page story an announcement that the Argentinian evangelist Paulu is coming to Sacramento in 2012 -- not even a STORY but a freaking promotion! There was HUGE outrage, but they keep doing this sort of thing. It’s horrifying! Lew Engle of “The Call” was here last year -- front page story even though his attendance was only 5000 people. It gives him cred even when the numbers (thank GOD) are dwindling.

    We must take heart that the PerryFest August 6 was held in a place that can hold 70,000 and only -- this matters -- 30,000 showed up. That was way below their expectation. If you saw any of it, the front floor seats in camera range were inter-racial. One of our allies, who shall remain nameless here, was in the audience taking notes and tweeting to us all, and said the REST of the audience was lilly white. It was all a sham and show. BUT he had powerful people, and that cannot be dismissed.

    YES the Baggers are diminishing greatly in numbers and strength. YES the Dominionists are actually losing support -- the single largest religious movement in America is “walkaways” who have had it with the abuse and fear. But in the Southern hemisphere it is spreading like wildfire! The one really great bulwark against it is growing material prosperity outside the “regrigerators for pay” drumbeat of Hagee et al. The Dominionists are losing ground in Brazil and Argentina and other places where democracy has overturned totalitarian rule. But they are supporting tyrants in Sri Lanka, Uganda and other African nations, etc. The liberation movements in the Mid East including Israel are a HUGE threat to Dominionism. All that is good. But where they still have massive power and influence, danger lurks for the people there and stability around the world.

    They need to be called out so keep calling it out! Pass on everything you read and hear to other blogs -- people have to learn how despicable these people are, how dangerous they are to democracy and human rights. Leah’s book is only one thing -- Rachel’s interview, Jeff’s books -- all need promotion. And we need to catch the things Perry, Bachmann et al. say and advocate and then call those out, too.

  6. KQuark says:

    Cheers for posting this CL. Sounds like a must read. We have a great deal of people who read the planet and never post so hopefully people become more aware about how dangerous these people really are. I just fear voters are not so overloaded by the crazy ramblings of these people that they become numb. I’m sure during the early ’30s in Germany people who thought groups like the Nazis and brown shirts were crazy too. But the desperation of the times made people overlook their good common sense.

    • Most of the people in 1930s Germany who opposed the NAZIs were older people who could view them against a democracy that they knew and lived in for years. The NAZIs really went after the young people because they realized that their minds were still quite malleable. And I believe these Dominionists are most likely doing the same thing. They want to hypnotize all they can, but they know that they will be most successful with the young.

      • bito says:

        The Socialists and Unions were strongly opposed to the Nazi’s and their leaders were among the first arrested and “disappeared.” The Union leaders were replaced by Nazi’s and the membership was “salted” with workers loyal to the Nazi’s.
        Do I dare to try it in German? Saltzengleich.” (sp)
        If you look at old Union photos you will see Union members giving the Nazi salute with one hand and the other one in their pocket, their verzion of the middle finger/I’m not a Nazi follower.

        The technique of ‘salting’ business, Congress, school boards, city and town councils and the Texas board approving books would make the Nazi’s proud.

        • choicelady says:

          Hey bito -- why give up a winning technique.

          Here are my problems with the Dominionists in terms of their own process: First, Doug Coe, head of the Family and his son, David, ADMIRE the hell out of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and every other tyrant who got people so committed and loyal that they engaged in acts of atrocity -- and THAT is supposed to ADMIRABLE. That’s what Jesus wanted? Not a shred of evidence exists in the Bible. Not one.

          Second -- have they NO historical sense? Every one of those tyrants is DEAD, and mostly violently. Tyranny does NOT last -- people resist a la Libya.

          Third -- they believe prophecy has marked them and God has called them. Well, so did Hitler whose REAL family name was Schicklegruber. He took a related family name, Hitler, because he thought it meant he was to fulfill Nostradamus’ prophecy that “Hisler” would come and preside over a 1000-year Reich. Instead he got 12 years and the most horrendous destruction we may have ever seen.

          So -- my warning is this: if you believe in prophecy, if you think God has called you, DON”T MESS WITH IT. Every time a person intervenes to put some new, self-serving spin on what they believe prophecy says, they screw it up.

          Just sayin’….

    • SueInCa says:

      KQ and these people, especially the family, have studied the tactics of the Nazis in great detail. They worked with churches in Germany that were involved in the Third Reich or have a history of how it was all accomplished with the Christians of that time.

      • choicelady says:

        SueinCA -- SOME of the Christians. Why these wingnuts don’t look at Bonhoeffer and the “righteous Christians” who save Jews and the people who resisted -- those are NOT their role models. It was the ones who collaborated. From the beginning, the Family/Fellowship were big Nazi supporters. They made pacts with the corporate people in the US who ALSO had long standing cartel relationships with Germany and who admired Hitler.

        Un-freaking-amazing that they could be so unAmerican and have not an ounce of shame.

        • SueInCa says:

          CL yes I have to remember to qualify it. There were plenty of Christians who did not fall for it. Hey remind me to tell you about Bonhoeffer and my friend Sharon. There is some wierd stuff going on with her. I think I understand it but will run it by you.

  7. PatsyT says:

    Thank you, for your dedication to this.
    I ran across this on npr.
    Radio Interview with Rachel Tabachnick on Aug 24, 2011


    • SueInCa says:

      Ms Patsy
      Rachel writes for Talk To Action. This is Bruce Wilson’s website. Max Blumenthal and Chris Hedges also write for this site. It is one of my favorites.


    • choicelady says:

      Yes Rachel is part of a small and dedicated group that are all focused on some aspects of this growing threat. The people to read are Leah, Rachel, Bruce Wilson, Jeff Sharlet, Frederick Clarkson. They have internal squabbles over terminology, but all of them see the unrelenting jackboot march of the theocrats and the danger it is to democracy and everything we value.

      Bit by bit people are beginning to wake up to the fact these are not just “values voters” but something profoundly worse. One could easily argue that even W with his drumbeat of conservatism actually did very little in terms of VALUES but DID begin the institutional alterations of constitutional issues such as starting the de facto if not de jure legalization of torture.

      If any of the Dominionists get in -- and even if Romney or Huntsman were to win -- the talons of Dominionism will enter every part of our society as well.

      The fearful moment is when the Left thinks this would be GOOD -- the way the communists did in NOT standing up to Hitler. They thought after he destroyed everything, they would clean it up. Well -- you can see how well THAT worked out. Em made this point over at ThePeople’sView, and it is the single most important historical comparison I’ve read. Our FireBaggers are creating a dangerous parallel to Weimar Germany with their ignorance and magical thinking.

      This is the enemy. They MUST be stopped. NOW.

  8. kesmarn says:

    c’lady, let me add my thanks to the other commenters’. We’ve been waiting for this book to come out and I’m so glad it’s now available.

    As to dismissing the potential threat of the dominionists, I think we need only take a very brief trip back in time to the glorious days of Dubya to see what happens when there’s a religious fanatic in the White House. And many have credibly argued that Dubya fit right in with this group.

    Erik Prince of Blackwater undoubtedly does.

    The congressmen who are involved with C-Street? Yup.

    It’s not only a question of will these people do damage. They already have. And they’d like to do a lot more.

    Check out the Hagee agenda: bomb Iran, make sure the entire ME is in flames, provoke armageddon, ensure the Second Coming. And voila! Before you know it, the whole world is “Christian.”

    In the mean time, they plan for — in their words — “a massive wealth transfer into Christian hands.” When Christians hold all the money, all the positions of power, and other religions have been eliminated, that will be their version of heaven on earth.

    Is that the version Christ taught and prayed for? No way.

    But they don’t see things that way at all. It’s Prosperity Gospel all the way, baby, for them.

    And everything is on the down-low. They’re very secretive, and that’s deliberate. Their methods are infiltration and stealth take-overs of various elements of society. By the time people wake up and realize what’s happened, it’s already too late.

    You may know people near you who are “just very good Christians,” who are totally in to this mentality and they will never mention it to you. This is discussed behind closed doors only. And it is real.

    • Emerald1943 says:

      Kes, thanks for reminding me about Eric Prince! I really don’t understand why that man is not in prison!

      The prosperity for Christians is another angle that gets missed in the greater conversation. The thing that really ticks me off is the John Hagees of the world who prey on the ignorant faithful, telling them to send money to support his “work” and in return, God will send them that new refrigerator that they need! These people are despicable! They are predators, plain and simple! They tell these poor folks that God will provide all that they need…just keeping praying and tithing!

      It was exactly people like these crooks and predators that first turned me away from my protestant upbringings. I was not always a “heathen”! 🙂

      • choicelady says:

        Hey Em -- not all Protestants do these things! The splinters of the major denominations are amazingly complex. Most of the mainline denominations focus on social justice, but certainly not every congregation. And there’s a lot of “steeplejacking” with religious right people filtering in to create uproar and division and cause congregations to pull out of progressive denominations or close. Progressive ministers everywhere are being fired or driven out. It’s very scary.

        That prosperity gospel is so full of it! How they keep the faithful whose refrigerator did NOT show up is to tell them they are not yet “good enough”. They don’t believe purely enough. They are not dedicated enough -- so send Hagee another $500 for his prayer warriors, and maybe, just MAYBE you will get right with God.

        It actually makes me cry to see people not just fleeced materially but stripped of self respect. To the end of their days too many people walk in mortal terror, clutching their Bibles like a life preserver, living in fear that they have not been truly saved and that they are insufficient to get into heaven. Why? People like Hagee told them so. And they believe people like Hagee are God’s chosen and would not lie.

        I’m not minimizing this, but it is the battered spouse syndrome. Too many of us believe that IF we could just find the RIGHT WORDS or the RIGHT DEED we would make the (abusive person, God) love us. If we can finally get the acceptance from (abusive person, God) it proves we are good.

        If there is an all seeing God, grace and love are given without reservation. When “God” comes in the person of a nasty, fat, foul mouthed, self designated preacher, grace and love can NEVER be obtained since he is a false prophet and uses withholding of love as a weapon. Those who cannot or will not see that they are being duped are those who also exist in the arms of abusive human relationships on all levels. Deeply sad.

    • choicelady says:

      Thanks, kes -- you are absolutely right about this.

      One important thing to remember. Not every evangelical or even Pentecostal is a Dominionist. The new groups -- Evangelicals for Human Rights, those who work for environmental stewardship, and many Black Pentecostal, charismatic denominations are NOT of this ilk. They therefore make potential allies.

      The work of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation found that of their over 24,000 clients -- yes that many -- 95% were Christians including very conservative ones. Dominionists in the military make judgments against CHRISTIANS they believe are not the “right kind”. Of course mainline Protestants and Catholics but even evangelicals and Pentecostals are found “wanting” if they don’t believe in the one world government under the Dominionist’s authority. (Jesus is still more a ‘get out of jail free’ card than a real presence.)

      The field is small, the power is great. They will grow as did the National Socialists IF we let them have it. Americans have to understand that they wish to abolish ALL social safetynet programs so that money can be directed into wars against Muslims and infidels everywhere. Philosophically they believe you are on your own, but politically they believe aiding the poor is IMMORAL. They, who reject evolution, are the single largest group of adherents to Social Darwinism.

      They are scary. We not only have to stop them NOW in 2012 but in 2016 when they will crank up someone who might even look more sane than Perry -- but will be one of them. Remember what Sinclair Lewis wrote: “When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”

      Well. They’re here.

  9. Emerald1943 says:

    CL, thank you so much for keeping this issue front and center. Since Sue began her work outing these dangerous people, I have been interested in keeping track of their movement. The recent Perry prayer/fasting rally in Texas brought it all back out into the light again with sponsors like John Hagee and Bryan Fischer.

    It appears to me that there are two separate “branches” of this movement. The John Hagee/Bryan Fischer evangelical branch appeals to the typical “low information voter”, the southern “bible-thumper”, short on education and long on absolute, unshakable belief in a verbatim bible. They believe whatever they are told, both from the pulpit and from Fox news…and of course, the republican politician who panders to them.

    The other “branch” of the movement would be what I would characterize as “the elite”, the Congressmen and Senators, judges and other officials in the government who actually hold elected office and wield power. The elite sit in Congress and on the Bench, making our laws and pulling their strings. These men/women are the most dangerous of all. They operate in secret (the C Street group), minimizing their involvement if discovered, and believe that they have been chosen by God to rule over the rest of us. Therefore, anything they do, legal or otherwise, is sanctioned by God. They operate above and outside the laws that apply to all others. Remember the John Ensign affair and Tom Coburn’s involvement in the payoff and cover-up?

    Both “branches”, although loosely associated, still have basically the same goals…the take-over and elimination of our form of democracy and the replacement of it with a theocracy. Sarah Palin’s church in Wasilla is reportedly associated with the C Street organization in some way. How could we forget the African preacher who prayed that she be protected from witchcraft?? She might be eligible for membership in both branches!

    The “Seven Mountains” that the NAR plans to conquer includes the government. Perry is now their guy to take the white House. If we look at recent laws passed in republican-controlled states, we see their influence on the other six, such as repeal of abortion rights, defunding of Planned Parenthood, and support for the Defense of Marriage Act (family), the de-funding of the National Endowment for the Arts and NPR (Arts/culture), the consolidation of RW controlled media (Fox/Murdoch), and massive cuts in education as well as taking over the school boards (Wake Country NC). Their effects can already be felt in any number of republican dominated states. Further republican wins in the next election will only serve to advance their agenda, something that we CANNOT allow!

    C Street was extremely secretive for many years, avoiding media coverage at all costs. But these new NAR extremists are not necessarily shy about announcing their plans. I am glad that they don’t shun the attention. This may be their undoing! It is hard for me to believe that the majority of the American people would subscribe to their take-over. The more information that is available in the mainstream, the better!

    Adonai makes a good point…they cannot “seize control”…it must be given to them! And I, for one, am not ready to relinquish that control. The rest of the Left should be made aware that this is the “other option” to voting President Obama a second term!

    Congratulations on your contribution to Ms. Burton’s book! I can’t wait to read it and will definitely be buying a copy! 🙂

    • SueInCa says:

      In the past couple of years I think we have seen where the American people are laying down against all that has happened. If the loss of trillions in savings is not enough to bring them out, what will be? Wake County stopped the resegration attempts for a time but when will it rear it’s ugly head again? Especially with the RR on the school board? They will find an end-around the citizens to implement their plans. They have done it with creationism and I don’t look for them to stop, they will just change tactics. Because their schtick was outed with the rightwing trolls, they changed it. Trolls claiming to be former Obama supporters now clogging up the internet with their anti-Obama rhetoric, your average blogger will not even know what is going on. Until it is too late. Same for Americans, they are in a situation now where there is just too much to worry about. It happened in Germany and people were wide awake there. I would never underestimate their ability to deceive. They are students of the Nazi regime.

      • choicelady says:

        Em and Sue -- I think yes, the Dominionists are something that overwhelms Americans who just cannot wrap their minds around a cabal as a part of everyday life. It’s so unAmerican! Em you’re right -- there is what I think of as a “sliding scale” of them which is why Leah wanted this book and not leave people thinking C Street is the only problem. From school boards to global intrigue, they are everywhere, and they mean to take over the “Seven Mountains” of society.

        They ARE the trolls and the fact the Left has fallen for them is horrific! Obviously not everyone on the Right is a Dominionist (can you see Cheney being religious?) but they have deeply embedded alliances between believers and non-believers in common goal -- global dominance. That the Left can’t see it -- still believes that Obama is weak as opposed to incredibly strong staving off these people -- is incredibly depressing. When did we lose sight of the REAL enemy to democracy?

        Whether these are ‘soft’ or ‘hard’ Dominionists, whether they are pre-millennial or post, whether they want a theocracy or are fine with a Bible-based society is important academically but NOT politically. The ‘sliding scale’ all works toward control of our Constitution and every other aspect of America. When they ALSO succeed in raising doubt about Obama among those who should be his strongest supporters, then we have much to fear.

        • Emerald1943 says:

          Hi CL and Sue!

          You both have made good points about the American people being so burdened by problems that they cannot see the danger that we face from these people! I am hopeful that Ms. Burton’s new book will help get the word out.

          I had occasion to visit with my brother-in-law last week. He is a rabid Democrat and a staunch Obama supporter. He holds a Master’s Degree in Economics and keeps up with the political news on a daily basis. He had never heard of the NAR movement. I showed him some of your writings here and he was stunned! At least, we do have ONE more person who feels it important to expose these people.

          CL, you make a good point…not everyone on the right is a Dominionist. But I believe the repubs pander to them, using their energy and their money to further the repub agenda. No, Cheney would never show any religiosity but if their agenda furthers his own, he will use it.

          I guess we will always have the trolls, some of them “plants”. They can whine and complain, but I still believe we will prevail. I do not think that any of the repub candidates can beat the President in the next election. We still have thousands of devoted supporters who will work their tails off to make sure!

          I do have one question…when will all this negative information about Rick Perry come out? There were a few in the media questioning his record in Texas when he first got into the race. But that soon died out. I have been hoping to see the media pick up on his ties to these evangelicals. IMO, he is the most dangerous candidate in race.

          Thanks to you both for keeping this issue on the front burner, at least for us. I would encourage all our members to post on other blogs and do whatever we can to spread the word.

          • SueInCa says:

            I still go to Huffpo sometimes and I have been pleased to see more and more posting about these NAR especially when the article is about a rightie so the word is getting out. Also the word about Alec is getting out as well. I found an excellent website about Alec that gives names, dates etc. Here it is.


            • Emerald1943 says:

              Sue, you are truly brave! I can’t bring myself to go over there to HP unless it is an absolute emergency! 🙂

              Glad to hear that the word is spreading. I am hoping that this will stick to Perry sooner or later. Let’s hope he is not like that mobster, John Gotti…he was called the “teflon don” because no charges would stick to him. Perry needs to be exposed, either for being a radical bible-thumper…or for being a HUGE fake! I am more inclined to believe the latter!

  10. ADONAI says:

    They’ll never “seize control” of the country. It has to be given to them.

    And as far as changing the First Amendment, good luck with that. They’ll never get enough states to ratify it. Ever.

    If their plan is to take over America then they’ve already failed. If teaching intelligent design in school has freaked so many out, I doubt they’ll be able to hide future endeavors. Again, if outlawing liquor was their high water mark, I’m not impressed. Definitely not scared.

    But every movement needs a boogeyman. I guess they’re as good as any.

    • choicelady says:

      AD -- they do not want or need to change the First Amendment. They have already gouged it in serious ways.

      In Arizona Christian School Tuition Organization v Winn SCOTUS ruled that a highly discriminatory tax credit given to ONLY parents with their kids in ultra-right Christian schools was OK and that AZ taxpayers had NO grounds to protest since it was a credit not a payment of tax money. 5-4 ruling Kennedy writing.

      In another AZ case, McComish v. Bennett SCOTUS ruled that public funding of elections was unconstitutional because public funding that equalled private funding of campaigns was “CHILLING TO FREE SPEECH”. This carries out the intent of Citizens United -- free speech is free to only those with private (corporate) money.

      In the Wal-Mart decision to throw out class action the decision effectively stifled due process of people without money demanding that cases be filed INDIVIDUALLY and not as a class. Whether they would accept a smaller class (say all check out clerks in one, all stock people in another) is totally unclear, but as it reads, it appears that this landmark decision deprives people of due process by making it financially impossible to file claims if you are not rich.

      These goals -- giving pathways to Christian preferential treatment, giving power to private money in campaigns, and giving corporations power to squash their employees -- these are all long time goals of the Christian Right.

      It CAN happen here Adonai -- it already is.

    • SueInCa says:


      I certainly respect you right to believe what you want but I will call you on your assumptions.

      On creationism around the country and school adoptin it in spite of supreme court rulings……….


      Attempts to bring back segregation in Wake Co, NC(all but one or two board members were radical christians)


      As to ratifying the 1rst amendment, the Bush administration is baby steps if someone like Bachmann, Romney, Perry or even Christie obtain the Whitehouse. Bush’s tactics will look like child’s play. And yes the mormons will work in conjunction with the dominionists. Palin and Beck are true examples. All you have to do is look behind the scenes to verify any of it. You don’t have to worry about state’s rights when you declare marshall law and in order to do that, the republicans have shown they can create the atmosphere. 9/11 is the perfect example. They ignored the warnings and let it progress to it’s natural conclusion.

      • bito says:

        Sue, who’da thunk that by a 5-4 vote, corporations became people and allowed them to spend unlimited corporate funds on elections. By a 5-4 Roe v. has been both saved and altered and a comma ignored to restrict enforcement of firearm ownership. Will they allow organized prayer in public schools with another 5-4 vote? Interpret the commerce clause more conservatively? Privacy clause?

        • SueInCa says:

          Dr. Kennedy Pastor of Coral Ridge Ministries made that statement. He said whoever controls the Supreme Court controls the law of the land. They are proving him right. Dr. Kennedy was a member as well.

          Look at Clarence Thomas and his wife directly involved in the Tea Party and not a word is spoken.

          • Emerald1943 says:

            Sue, Clarence Thomas should be impeached, or whatever they do to naughty boys on the Supreme Court! There seems to be enough evidence against him for at least conflict of interest. Why is this getting no traction? Is this another one of those problems that Americans can’t get their heads around??

            • SueInCa says:

              I think people are just basically lazy or perhaps they are afraid if they take on this bunch, they will lose or no one will back them up. The media is in love with the tea party, look at how CNN has gotten on the bandwagon bigtime. I barely watch any of it anymore. And, yes a judge at any level can be impeached. There was a dem congressman who was impeached. I can;t remember his name

          • choicelady says:

            Yup. Kennedy was right. YOU are right, Sue.

      • ADONAI says:

        Article seems to say they shot down the creationism disclaimers. Again, I trust the people. Democracy does not scare me.

        Segregation? Again, good luck with that.

        who cares how crazy they are? They’ll NEVER get enough states to ratify the Constitution. Invade a Muslim country? Hell Yeah! Take away our porn? Hell No!

        9/11 is not a good example. No one care about this war. No one has any attachment to it. It hasn’t allowed Republicans to take over the country.

        And your worst nightmares are already true. In 2006 President Bush signed an act broadening the President’s ability to declare martial law unilaterally and place troops in American borders, repeal trial and habeas corpus and all that.

        A bill passed by Congress, opposed by 42 of 231 Democrats in the House and 2 of 50 Democratic Senators. I don’t think the United States government needs a lot of help stripping your rights from you. And they don’t share power.

        • choicelady says:

          Adonai -- where do you get the idea that they need or want to change the First Amendment? They can and are taking away rights already without breaking a sweat! You are focusing on the WRONG thing -- the only amendment they want to change is the 17th so we can no longer vote for our Senators.

          Focus on the deeds -- they alreayd are happening and changing the Constitution is inessential if you have the folks who can INTERPRET it as they see fit.

        • SueInCa says:

          I is not about if they succeeded but that they tried and will continue to try until they get it passed. I know Bush passed that law which is why I cannot agree with you. You tell me if losing trillions in savings cannot bring out the American people to protest, a declaration of Marshall Law will not either. You seem to think your fellow citizens are as accomplished in their knowledge as your are, where I see the dumbing down of America really taking hold.

          You can test it with almost any acquaintence, just ask them what a Dominionist is, they will not be able to answer. Those are the people it will sneak up on and they will be sorry they made fun of the people trying to enlighten them.

          • Emerald1943 says:

            Sue, I did not see this comment from you before I wrote my reply above. My brother-in-law is a prime example. He, as I stated, is highly educated and keeps up with politics. He had NEVER heard of Dominionism and the NAR. He most certainly is NOT your low information voter! If HE didn’t know about this threat, then how do we expect the true “dumbed down” people to know enough about it?

          • ADONAI says:

            Of course no one knows who they are! They haven’t effected them in any way.

            Dominionists didn’t ruin the market. Dominionists didn’t invade 2 countries. Dominionists haven’t cost us millions of jobs. Dominionists didn’t invent the debt ceiling or downgrade our imaginary credit. Dominionists don’t keep our military dying in the desert.

            Protest what? Some people lost their job. Most didn’t. Some people have to commit to the war. Most don’t. I want the American people to see the real problem. Themselves. Not a “shadow government” that succeeds less than half the time.

            • Emerald1943 says:

              Adonai, take another look…there are C Street members sitting in Congress as we speak here…on the repub side of the aisle! They may not be the majority, but they certainly have influence in both the House and the Senate. For instance, Senator Tom Coburn is one of them. He certainly has some power there. Also, Jim DeMint is reported to be associated. He was just called “King Maker” with his influence. These are certainly not ineffectual men!

            • choicelady says:

              They certainly HAVE, Adonai -- they are deeply enmeshed with the most powerful corporate people in the world.

              Bush went into Iraq -- announced it BEFORE 9/11 -- to fulfill his born again belief that he was to destroy Babylon -- which is what Iraq was historically. Lucky for us -- and I seriously MEAN this -- Bush was lazy and did not want to carry out his mission.

              You need to read C Street by Jeff Sharlet -- and easier and less dense version of his “The Family”. Ever since the 1930s these people have traveled in the highest AND lowest parts of our society seeking power, committing illegal acts by meddling in foreign policy, and doing everything they can to take over the nation from school boards on up. And they ARE having successes -- lots of them. And they ARE running for president. So I realize it’s scary -- but FOCUS on the fact that they CAN be defeated IF we keep our eyes on them and keep the drumbeat for democracy alive.

            • SueInCa says:

              I think you better do some checking. A Koch is on the board of S&P. And they are not going to do it with a shadow government, it will be right in front of your eyes. And if you think dominionists have not cost jobs, you are not looking too hard. The Koch brothers have a market in that already. And are you sure the owners of the manufacturing plants that left and went oversees are not run by Dominionists? Without researching them all, you can’t possibly be sure. Can you name all the dominionists in Congress right now? I could with very little research.

  11. agrippa says:

    Thanks for the information.

    This group is new to me.

    • Emerald1943 says:


      I highly recommend Jeff Sharlett’s book about the C Street gang. It is a stunning eye-opener that will certainly shock you. The influence of these people goes way up, including ties to the Supreme Court. This “movement” is very diffuse and as CL states, they are working at many different levels. Make no mistake…they are effective and are making headway with their agenda!

      Also, you would be well advised to go back and read Sue’s great work on this subject in her series. She is the most knowledgeable among us, having done some extensive research.

    • choicelady says:

      It’s more of a movement, agrippa -- made of many groups, many people. They work at high levels (C Street) and low (school boards). They are VERY scary and deeply determined to grab power for themselves and their willing corporate allies.

  12. SueInCa says:

    Cl Thanks for the call out up there. I do this for fun LOL. In the process of having fun with my research, I get to enlighten other progressive people willing to listen. I also do what I do because I fervently believe all the pieces are now in place for them to succeed. Naomi Wolf wrote an article on Sarah “Evita” Palin just before the 2008 election and while she was really looking at it from a political prospective, the underlying issue was Palin’s religion. That scared me and that was when I started doing my research. Wit every click, you learn more. You just have to be willing to click back and forth that is all.

    Look around you, while we may not all be happy with everything Obama does, I think he just may be our last hope for a continued democracy. Look around, who do you see as the next party leader? I don’t see anyone. I see alot of real compassionate good people, working to do their best for the people but I do not see any strong leaders. I will be buying Leah’s book. I can’t wait to read it.

    • choicelady says:

      Sue -- you know I adore you, but you do this for FUN???? Girlfriend -- you gotta get a better hobby! LOL!!!

      • SueInCa says:

        It is a mutual adoration society and remember I have my beads and stuff I also do for fun. I am trying my hand now at Zentangle with clay. It is an easier way of creating clay jewelry without all the folding, rolling, cutting to come up with designs. It is a form of doodling except you use paints and permanent markers to make the designs.

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