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KQµårk 死神 On March - 16 - 2010

House leadership is looking at passing the Senate HC bill in one step instead of two. Basically since many House members simply don’t want to vote for the Senate bill the Democratic leadership is looking into a procedure called “deem and pass”. Instead of voting on the Senate HC bill and then voting on the reconciliation bill Democrats may use a parliamentary procedure where they “deem” the Senate HCR passed when “pass(ing)” the two bills together. This is done all the time in the House by Democrats and Republicans but like usual Republicans are being hypocritical and saying that the Dems aren’t voting on healthcare. Republicans would have to break 116 years of precedent to taint the procedure. It would be politically “cleaner” to use the two step procedure but the downside is that the Senate might not pass the reconciliation bill and the Senate bill with be law.

If HCR fails these are the people that will define America’s future. Most people are angry and justifiably so but some people want to channel that anger for progress and to make things better. These people are just angry and that’s a big different.

Now let’s all cover this great Beatles song with slightly revised lyrics.

Eleanor Rigby (Lennon/McCartney)

Ah, look at all the angry people
Ah, look at all the angry people

Eleanor Rigby picks up the rice in the church where a wedding has been
Lives in a dream
Waits at the window, wearing the face that she keeps in a jar by the door
Who is it for?

All the angry people
Where do they all come from?
All the angry people
Where do they all belong?

Father McKenzie writing the words of a sermon that no one will hear
No one comes near.
Look at him working, darning his socks in the night when there’s nobody there
What does he care?

All the angry people
Where do they all come from?
All the angry people
Where do they all belong?

Ah, look at all the angry people
Ah, look at all the angry people

Eleanor Rigby died in the church and was buried along with her name
Nobody came
Father McKenzie wiping the dirt from his hands as he walks from the grave
No one was saved

All the angry people
Where do they all come from?
All the angry people
Where do they all belong?

Written by KQµårk 死神

My PlanetPOV contact is [email protected] Proud Dem whose favorite hobby is cat herding. The GOP is not a political party, it's a personality disorder. Cancer, Heart Failure and Bush Survivor.

274 Responses so far.

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  1. javaz says:

    This is an excellent diary from dailykos --

    Here’s one of my favorite parts --

    “What better way to seize control over your life than seizing control over the decision as to whether you or your loved ones receive life-saving medical treatment or not?

    Do you think your political affiliation might eventually play into the decision on whether you get the life-saving medical treatment you need?

    Do you think radicals like Van Jones and other far-Left activists will burrow their way into the federal health care bureaucracy, rewarding their friends, while people like you end up in the back of the line?

    That’s what usually always happens when politicians are in charge of anything.

    They use their power to reward their friends and punish their foes. Why should health care be any different?

    Most of the problems with America’s health care system are caused by government.”

    Holy crap! They’re going to withhold medical treatment from Republicans! And from white people! White Republicans will be PUNISHED for being white and Republican!!! And now the ugly truth comes out: the problems with our health care system have nothing to do with the fact that insurance is dispensed by giant, for-profit corporations who benefit from denying care to the people who need it most. It’s because of GOVERNMENT!!!


    • nellie says:

      Whenever you hear a right winger accusing the Democrats of doing something — you just KNOW it’s projection. It’s either what the GOP would like to be doing, or something they’re doing already.

      • SanityNow says:

        …or something that the GOP makes pretensions of wanting to do but only “better” while in reality has no intention whatever of doing. Ever. Like HCR.

  2. javaz says:

    Virginia is threatening to sue the government if HCR is passed and they are not alone --

    But Virginia isn’t the only Republican state that is considering lawsuits to combat Democrats’ strategies that

    • nellie says:

      This is like the Terri Schiavo debacle. In the end, it’s just going to bite the GOP in the ass.

      • javaz says:

        Good morning, Nellie.

        I hope you are correct but jeepers, the GOP sure have folks wound up with the help of Fox and the likes of Beck, Hannity, O’Reilly et all.

        Have spent most of the morning reading mediamatters and the pundits are in a-frenzy, basically calling Obama a Marxist tyrant, and Beck even went as far as to explain that Obama was born a Marxist.

        Limbaugh accused Obama yesterday of fighting with Israel to appease the Muslims because Obama is a Muslim.

        How do we stop the lies in the media?

        Fox and their pundits are a danger to our president and our country and yet they are stronger than ever in spouting their deceptions and hate.


        • nellie says:

          Good morning javaz.

          For my part, I think the corporate wing nuts are very loud but have little influence on what happens in our legislature. The people who plug into this kind of hate speech are people who are willing to believe this crazy stuff. They’re in the minority.

          The Right Wing is spending a lot of money to saturate the media with trolls, be they highly paid ones like Rush Limbaugh or the pathetic basement dwellers who post on HP. They make a lot of noise, but they’re not changing anything. We never would have gotten single payer — even without the tea party — because too many congresspeople are bought and paid for.

          I’ve come to look at Fox and Rush as cover — cover for corporate bought-off legislators so they can put up a front that they’re representing the public. But I don’t think they affect voting or lawmaking. But corporate money in campaigns and lobbying does. I think that’s the real danger.

      • SanityNow says:

        I really think that words like “union” and “indivisible” still confusticate conservatives. I am surprised they haven’t made noises about redacting both of them out of the Pledge.

    • SanityNow says:

      conservative grandstanding, quasi-pure and ultra-simple, not to mention a huge waste of VA taxpayer time and money.

  3. nellie says:

    We got the CBO score. Right on schedule.

  4. choicelady says:

    Hi all -- Happy What’s Left of St. Patrick’s Day!

    I just signed up at FDL and posted -- only to see nothing appear. What’s up with them?

    Man -- they are all whiners just like the bozo I dealt with New Year’s Eve who declared HE had all the answers and set all the standards for everything, and HE was not happy with Obama, oh, boy, no he was NOT, so Obama ought to be very, very worried because HE wrote Obama a letter saying next time HE might not vote.

    I’m used now to the whiners at HuffPo, but these folks are special (picture me saying that like the SNL Church Lady).

    What seems to be the common denominator here is the EGOTISM of people who know very little. I’ve worked hard for single payer in CA, but I twice have been on a panel with a single payer supporter doctor who knows NOTHING about the federal plan, just that it’s not single payer and so he hates the federal plan. When I asked him what he would say to the millions who will get coverage, he brushed them off as unimportant. He then said we HAD to get single payer and could do it in two months. He and his wife both are physicians and will settle for nothing less than what is ideologically pure. Even if it’s on the backs of uninsured, untreated people. So my question is -- what happened to your oath to first do no harm? Throwing under the bus the 87 million who at one time or another during any given year do NOT have health care coverage IS ABSOLUTELY IMMORAL. I dare say I will not be going to HIM for treatment! His wife’s a pediatrician, so I’m not likely to need her, but I am horrified at people who put ideology ahead of the common good.

    I am just plain fed up with these attitudes, and I no longer can tell the right from the left.


    • KQuark says:

      I hear you sister ❗

      Amazingly my cardiologist who will do anything for me most times free of charge is a staunch Republican. It’s so funny because he’s the most caring doctor I’ve come across but like I said in an earlier post it’s just a blind spot. I don’t think either side is immune from having purist ideologues but I never get that confused with whether they are good peeps or not.

      The other part is when it came to a few polls I saw recently around 90% and sometimes more liberal Dems want this to pass so again the loudest opponents may be in the minority.

    • Chernynkaya says:

      Hear, Hear, C’lady. Testify!

  5. nellie says:

    Am I the only one who feels really good about this congress passing health care? I’ve been listening to whining progressives all day — we’ve been betrayed, we’ve been let down, the leadership has failed, we’ll never get single payer, on and on and on.

    All I can think is — “Damn, we got a health care bill passed in just over a year. I never thought we would do it this fast.”

    • choicelady says:

      I do, too, and the idea that at least 18 million people -- and e-cat and KQ should be among them -- who have no insurance and need immediate care will GET care is something I cannot ignore.

      That said -- would anyone tackle the issue of how we are leaving out documented and undocumented immigrants? How dreadful, IMHO, to think that anyone present in this nation cannot even BUY insurance! And legally present immigrants pay TAXES, so why are they banned from public programs for FIVE YEARS -- what if they are 65? They have to wait til 70 for Medicare? Awful. And short-sighted. And dangerous to the public health. Anyone have an answer or insight?

      • Chernynkaya says:

        C’Lady and Sue, I am almost finished writing a post about immigration reform, and no, they do not have SS cards. But they pay taxes! Property, sales and some income taxes. The IRS estimates that they contributed 13 Billion in 2009, but I have to check that number.

      • SueInCa says:

        If they are undocumented immigrants how do they get a social security number? I am not really versed in the immigrant issue, but if they are undocumented and paying taxes wouldn’t ICE be deporting them and wouldn’t they be using a fake ss#? As for documented workers, I am not sure how they were taken out, it was my understanding they were included.

        • choicelady says:

          Oh it is true they often have phony SS cards, but they pay into the system -- sometimes to other citizens’ accounts -- and get nothing. In CA undocumented people get NO services other than emergency medical care and school for their kids (who often ARE citzens.) But they add billions -- cher is right -- to the tax coffers but now cannot even BUY insurance. Mexico offers single payer insurance (think of the irony) to those who are employed within Mexico. However, they SELL insurance for $95 per YEAR to those not employed within the country. The problem? US hospitals won’t take it. We’re working on that.

          Legally present immigrants without private insurance cannot access any public program -- I believe not even Medicare at 65 -- for FIVE years under what I think will emerge. That is in the Senate bill. The House bill let them have coverage, and let undocumented people buy it, but what’s in the final bill, passed either with reconciliation or deem and pass is just not yet clear.

          The only good public health measure is to be sure that everyone inside the US has some access to insurance or we’re going to see pandemics like we’ve not experiences since 1918. We will have polio, typhus, whooping cough -- on and on because sick people will continue to get sick and be among us. Not everyone who is a citizen will have adequate protection. It’s just stupid. And inhumane. People are people, and the woman who cleans my hotel room matters, the guy who cuts our grass at my office matters, and his kids matter, and his mom matters. We just have taken the YOYO principle -- you’re on your own -- waaaaay too far. We’ve lost our decency.

          • SueInCa says:

            Not all of us are that bad, but I can see where you are feeling the way you are. I have felt for months like we are on the verge of something really bad. I just hope the many raise up against the few because most of them are on the right but the really bad ones are armed to the teeth. Homeland security better be on the ball.

          • Chernynkaya says:

            If there is a pandemic, the Mexican immigrants--even though they are barred from attaining health coverage-- will be the first ones blamed. I remember well that POS Lou Dobbs claiming they bring leprosy! Talk about a regressive. Leprosy?!

    • KQuark says:

      I’m still holding my breath but I’ll probably break down if it does happen.

      I had a horrible flashback during my last hospital stay because at one point I had to go to the cancer center for an infusion. I had been in the hospital many times since I had been treated for cancer but this was the first time I had been in a cancer center for almost 15 years. All the memories came rushing back. I could barely contain myself. I probably would have rushed out of the room if my wife was not there for support. Memories of the nurse who spilled blood all over me during an infusion, seeing a sickle cell anemia patient riving in pain begging the nurses for meds and seeing a poor kid in his early twenties doing his first treatment all came rushing in. So I figure when this passes every health related hardship I ever faced during my bouts will illness will come back again.

      The day after it passes I will probably go to our favorite Irish Pub and celebrate.

      • AdLib says:

        KQ, that’s wrenching just to read about briefly, you’re one tough customer to march through everything you have.

        I have never been more confident, this is do or die for Obama’s Presidency and the Dem Party remaining in power, I think that within the week, we may indeed be clinking virtual glasses.

      • SueInCa says:

        You will deserve that drink KQ, and I think you will be celebrating by Sunday night.

      • choicelady says:

        KQ -- the day after it passes, you will deserve an INFUSION of whatever pleases you! You and e-cat and anyone who has been waiting for care and coverage do deserve whatever good comes your way!

      • Chernynkaya says:

        KQ, I too will celebrate-- for you and all of us. For my son, who has no health coverage, and for the tens of MILLIONS of people who will benefit. Those who oppose this --whether as as too little, or too much-- are those who don’t need health insurance, or who just don’t give a damn about their fellow human beings.

      • nellie says:

        What a rush of traumatic memories, K. It’s just not right that you should be in limbo with your health coverage. Or e’cat. Or anyone. I think about things like that and don’t see how anyone can feel resentful about this bill. It’s going to be so helpful — for everyone who will benefit from it, for the freedom people will have, for the financial security it will give so many families. It’s just in time for so many people on the brink. And it will change the way we deal with health issues forever.

        There’s more to do, of course, but geez — this is a good thing.

        • KQuark says:

          It really is a tale of two bills for people that have insurance or don’t think they need it, the bill is a hard sell because it does not offer that much. But for people that need access to healthcare coverage in this system and can’t get it, the bill is a life vest.

          The best part of Rep. Kucinich’s statement was the fact that he listened to his constituents, many of whom are in the second category.

          • Kalima says:

            You know better than most where I stand on this for you and my other friends who need this desperately.

            When it passes, you will hear my shouts of glee across the blue ocean which separates us.

            I can’t wait to raise my glass to all of you. :)

          • escribacat says:

            Even those young and healthy “hard sell” types will eventually come to appreciate it — when they get older and their body starts breaking down or when they have an accident. I broke both my arms in a bicycle accident when I was a 22 year old college student. Luckily, I lived in California and MediCal took care of my bills. I still think back on that with great appreciation.

    • Chernynkaya says:

      I’m with you, Nellie! I am just still holding my breath until this is over. I am extremely disappointed in people on the Left who can’t seem to see the forest for the trees. And by Congress, but that has only motivated me more to vote for actual Democrats in upcoming elections--NOT to pout and say, “Not good enough!” and then ensure that the Reptilians regain power!

      • nellie says:

        That’s a profound change of heart, Cher. That takes a lot of soul searching.

        I’m such a nut for primaries and primary challengers. Jane Harman has a primary challenger this year — Marci Winograd, who has challenged her before. But Harman’s votes have been really good since Marci got 36% of the votes in the last primary. And she came out early and strong for H.R. 3200. So she has my vote this year in the primary. Last time I voted for Marci.

        And I’m going to write her and let her know how her stance on health care translated into a vote.

        • escribacat says:

          Here in Colorado, Michael Bennett isn’t faring too well right now. He has earned my vote by standing up for the P.O. and against the filibuster. His dem challenger is significantly ahead. I don’t know much about the local scene — Bennett seems to have a lot of enemies.

          • bitohistory says:

            e’cat , NPR, did a short discussion on that race. I have seen Bennett on the floor speaking, I liked him.

            • escribacat says:

              I like him too, Bito. I plan to vote for him. Of course, I don’t know anything about the other guy, except he might be more to the left of Bennett. I just want to make sure one of the Dems wins!!

        • javaz says:

          What’s so discouraging where we live is that we live in a Red state and even though our district as it stands is blue, it’s an ‘iffy’ thing.
          All of our reps are Republicans, yet somehow we’re considered a Democratic district, and I really do not understand that.

          I think b’ito lives in a bluer area down in Tucson, but even that area is ‘iffy.’

          • bitohistory says:

            Watching KO, and it was reported that my rep is “leaning” to vote yes. I think she will!

            • javaz says:

              I think so, too, b’ito, because I think it’s all political theater.

              They’ve got to report on something, besides Tiger Woods and American Idol.

        • Chernynkaya says:

          Yes, Nellie, but it happened sort of gradually since I wrote the piece “Kill Bill?” a few months ago. I’ve been commenting this way for a while now.

          (I assume that’s what you mean by change of heart?)

          • nellie says:

            I was going by your post — changing from the “not good enough” frame of mind. I wrestle with that, too — but in the end, I want to move forward, even if it’s slowly.

      • javaz says:

        No, Cher!

        If you hold your breath that long, you’ll turn blue!

        And today is the day to GO GREEN!


    • escribacat says:

      I really don’t know what’s wrong with those folks, Nellie, except that they all must be well-covered and have no imaginations what it’s like for the rest of us who aren’t.

      • Chernynkaya says:

        E’cat, I also believe they have been getting most of their info from sites like HP and Firedoglake. It’s no wonder that all they see are the downsides. There is a serious lack of intellectual honesty from both the Left and Fux.

        • escribacat says:

          HP is definitely crawling with the rabid HCR haters. Any more, I can hardly tell whether a lot of these people are leftie extremists or rightie extremists. The only thing that is clear is that they are extremists and they blame Obama for all the country’s ills. I’m starting to get some serious enemies over there, really — all on the far left. I don’t know why those people bug me more than the rightwing trolls do, but I let them really get me worked up.

          And yes, a lot of them are posting endless quotes from Jane Hamsher at FDL.

      • nellie says:

        Sadly, you might be right about that. All these people are well paid, well heeled, corporately INSURED folks on the radio.

    • javaz says:

      No, you’re not the only one, nellie!

      I am not satisfied with this bill, but I am hoping and praying that it does pass, and I’m with you in believing that it will.

      This is a historical moment for our country and I’m glad to be here to witness it.

      YES WE CAN and YES WE WILL finally.

      addendum : I am so burned out on politics and the fighting and the we vs them attitude from the politicians, MSM and even people I know.

      I stopped watching the news except for the weather report, and when I am cruising the Net, I read the articles, but absolutely refuse to read any comments.

      I’m tired of it all.

      But that doesn’t stop me from hoping and thinking positively, and it certainly does not change my mind about voting Democrat, until something better comes along.

      • nellie says:

        I don’t like this bill, either, javaz. But when H.R. 3200 came out of the House, and I read everything they had put in that bill, I realized they were serious about passing a reform bill. And since then, I’ve felt confident. Even this stinker of a Senate Bill is a solid start and will change so many people’s lives.

        It has been something to watch!

        • javaz says:

          I’ve read so many articles from so many sites, and we do need to regulate insurance companies, but even if we don’t, the matter will take care of itself.

          It’ll take longer to take care of itself, sadly, but it will happen.

          The insurance for profit days are numbered, and I truly believe that.

          I also believe that within 10 years that we will have single payer.

  6. SanityNow says:

    here is an interesting wrinkle I just saw in DailyKos http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/3/17/847214/-Wheres-the-CBO-Report

    “In order to pass the bill by the Easter recess, and avoid any further delays that could sink the bill, the Senate needs to take up the bill next week.

    In order for the Senate to take up the reconciliation bill next week, President Obama has to sign the Senate bill into law before he leaves the country for a five day trip on Sunday.

    In order for President Obama to sign the bill into law before he leaves the country, the House needs to pass the bill by Saturday night.

    And, in order for the House to pass the bill by Saturday night, the CBO needs to release its score of the bill tonight, 72 hours before the House votes.”

  7. Khirad says:

    So, did someone already post this?

  8. KQuark says:

    I just got an alert from the American Cancer Society. This is what healthcare reform would be like with Republicans in charge. More unfettered capitalism and less regulations to ensure people get proper care. Remember that cancer screenings is in the first stage of Democratic legislation.

    Call your State Senator and ask them to OPPOSE SB 407!

    The American Cancer Society opposes Senate Bill 407 which would allow out-of-state insurance companies to sell plans in Georgia without coverage for life-saving cancer screenings like mammography, pap smears, prostate cancer screening and colon cancer screening, among others.

    In addition, these plans will not be subject to any Georgia regulation. Premiums may be increased, strict exclusions may be included for pre-existing conditions, and access to coverage for prevention and treatment may be limited. The result: many Georgians who purchase these plans, particularly those with pre-existing conditions like cancer, may be left un-insurable.

    Early detection is essential to finding and treating cancer early. We want every Georgian, regardless of the insurance plan they purchase, to have the same access to these critical, life-saving screenings.

    You can help preserve these screenings for more Georgians by helping us to DEFEAT this bill.

    The bill has passed the Senate Insurance Committee and could be heard on the Senate floor very soon.

    Please include the following information when calling or emailing your State Senator:

    * Your address and contact information (to show you are a constituent)
    * Your story of how early detection saved your life or the life of a family member or friend.
    * Request that they OPPOSE SB 407.

  9. KQuark says:

    Rep. Larson gave a good list of the to 10 benefits that will go into effect almost immediately.


    # Prohibit pre-existing condition exclusions for children in all new plans;

    # Provide immediate access to insurance for uninsured Americans who are uninsured because of a pre-existing condition through a temporary high-risk pool;

    # Prohibit dropping people from coverage when they get sick in all individual plans;

    # Lower seniors prescription drug prices by beginning to close the donut hole;

    # Offer tax credits to small businesses to purchase coverage;

    # Eliminate lifetime limits and restrictive annual limits on benefits in all plans;

    # Require plans to cover an enrollee’s dependent children until age 26;

    # Require new plans to cover preventive services and immunizations without cost-sharing;

    # Ensure consumers have access to an effective internal and external appeals process to appeal new insurance plan decisions;

    # Require premium rebates to enrollees from insurers with high administrative expenditures and require public disclosure of the percent of premiums applied to overhead costs.

    • Chernynkaya says:

      If you are talking about the doctor from your Bill Moyers post, I never said she was! But you didn’t address my questions about what she wants.

      • KQuark says:

        Sounds like putting words in your mouth to me.

        I don’t even think most (or maybe many) Republicans are bad people. I think most of them are misguided or just unreasonable.

        I think people on both sides can be equally unreasonable even if I do lean left on principle.

        • Khirad says:

          Yeah, the thing with Republicans is that many do genuinely believe they are doing what’s good for America. I don’t sweepingly cast them as ‘bad’.

          But, what they do is often bad for America, and their ideology misguided or as it is now, too purified and scorched-earth driven to compromise and be reasonable.

          • SanityNow says:

            conservatives, while ostensibly well intentioned, are always on the wrong side of history and social progress

            • KQuark says:

              Yup and the many conservatives I’ve worked with over the years I remind them of that time and time again. Yet some of them are still very good friends. I look at it like they have a blind spot intellectually that cannot be cured.

            • KQuark says:

              I almost dislike the converts more like Huffy. Because she brings Republican nasty tactics to the left.

            • Khirad says:

              I like the way you put that. And when they do remove the blinders, then they have to come up with Jonah Goldberg rationalizations and topsy-turvy tripe.

            • KQuark says:

              That’s true but you can drive a truck through Republicans blind spot without them noticing.

            • SanityNow says:

              everyone has their weaknesses. Gawd knows I have mine.

            • Chernynkaya says:

              I see it that way too, on one of my good days. It’s really true, and I have to remind myself that they are not all the scumbags like those we see on TV or read about. Many are despondent about what their party has become-- which IMO is pure evil.

  10. KQuark says:

    I know we have seen many analogies of what this legislation is like and frankly I’m a little sick of them myself but I came across a unique one a post said last night that I could relate too because I was in that exact situation.

    They pretty much said our healthcare system is analogous to a critical patient that enters the ER. When you are a critical patient the first directive for doctors is to stabilize the patient. Eventually if the patient is not too sick they receive more comprehensive treatment that lets them out of the hospital when other doctors come on board and more test are done.

    Well our healthcare system is in critical condition. I’ve said several time that we are starting from a very bad place on HCR. I’ve been on record saying it would be a disaster going straight to single payer because it would just shock the system like setting a defibrillator with too much amperage. Evolving into a virtual single payer system would be much more efficient. That being said this is not the point where I would have wanted to start from but it’s still a start.

    • SanityNow says:

      that analogy appears 100% legitimate. The status quo HC system is indeed dying and taking us with it.

    • nellie says:

      Some of the most successful systems in the world are mixed public and private systems. I don’t see anything wrong with that. There is enough support for a robust public system to see it happen.

      What I tire of is the complaining about the bill that’s on the table — which I hear every morning on KPOJ from hosts that I really love. But after all this time, it should be pretty clear that just this meagre reform faced major opposition, will just squeak through, and is a major accomplishment. Let’s pass it and then work on making it better.

      • Chernynkaya says:

        Very true but to be fair, those mixtures also place restrictions on the private ins. sector. That’s the next thing that needs to happen, imo.

        • KQuark says:

          Besides ensuring coverage for the sick and preexisting conditions there is one piece of this bill that goes a long way with regulating what percentage insurance companies must pay out in premiums if they want to be part of the exchanges.

          The Netherlands has a 100% private system distributed through government subsidies and premiums. They also have a boat load of legislation. You can just legislate HCR but the trouble with that in this country is legislators are dependent on business. The fact is we have a very hybrid system now. The government now pays more than the private sector on healthcare. The problem is even with the high costs not everyone has coverage. That’s always been the first step. To cover as many people as possible and spread the risk. That’s the only thing common in all the HC systems better and cheaper than ours.

  11. Chernynkaya says:

    BT, no, those quotes sound like Firebagger quotes to me. That’s why I said my post was slightly OT.I was responding to the mention of the NE Journal of Medicine.

      • Chernynkaya says:

        Ok, point taken. I think she is not a RW doc at all. I do think she is a LW purist. That is not name calling, but a description of her ideology.

        • Chernynkaya says:

          BT, I think my reply didn’t post the first time.

          Ok, point taken. I think she is not a RW doc at all. I do think she is a LW purist. That is not name calling, but a description of her ideology.

            • Chernynkaya says:

              But the term ideologue-- to me anyway, is not derogatory. It means someone who is idealistic; who has ideals.

              And I am not entirely disagreeing with her--except for a couple of statements.

              But the fact is, we are where we are. Is she advocating we scrap the bill and start over? Is she saying this is not reform? What does she want? What is realistic?

            • Chernynkaya says:

              Khirad, that’s my question. It’s not enough to simply point out what the bill doesn’t do!

            • Khirad says:

              Yeah, maybe she’s not a collaborator. Fair’s fair to level with us.

              That’s fine.

              But then what?

        • Khirad says:

          De facto collaborator in my book.

  12. Khirad says:

    In case you missed it:


    Well Rush, you called Obama a “Third World President” the other day. No, you’re the leader of the mutinous party dragging us like an anchor and intent on driving us into a shoal -- and arming yourselves like the pirates in Libertarian paradise Somalia to “take back your country”; especially after congress passes this law “illegally” -- “worse than Watergate“.

    • Chernynkaya says:

      Thank you Khirad! and since someone asked about what reforms will kick in immediately:

      Fact: Numerous benefits from Senate health care bill would “be available in the first year after enactment” of the bill

      Senate Democrats note “Immediate Benefits” of health care bill. According to a document put forth by Senate Democrats summarizing the “Immediate Benefits” of The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, the bill includes numerous benefits that would “be available in the first year after enactment” of the bill. Indeed, WashingtonPost.com blogger Ezra Klein published the following list of benefits that the Senate bill would provide “before 2014”:

      1) Eliminating lifetime limits, and cap annual limits, on health-care benefits. In other words, if you get an aggressive cancer and your treatment costs an extraordinary amount, your insurer can’t suddenly remind you that subparagraph 15 limited your yearly expenses to $30,000, and they’re not responsible for anything above that.

      2) No more rescissions.

      3) Some interim help for people who have preexisting conditions, though the bill does not instantly ban discrimination on preexisting conditions.

      4) Requiring insurers to cover preventive care and immunizations.

      5) Allowing young adults to stay on their parent’s insurance plan until age 26.

      6) Developing uniform coverage documents so people can compare different insurance policies in an apples-to-apples fashion.

      7) Forcing insurers to spend 80 percent of all premium dollars on medical care (75 percent in the individual market), thus capping the money that can go toward administration, profits, etc.

      8) Creating an appeals process and consumer advocate for insurance customers.

      9) Developing a temporary re-insurance program to help early retirees (folks over 55) afford coverage.

      10) Creating an internet portal to help people shop for and compare coverage.

      11) Miscellaneous administrative simplification stuff.

      12) Banning discrimination based on salary (i.e., where a company that’s not self-insured makes only some full-time workers eligible for coverage.

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