From the responses to the first op ed article, I would like to reboot, and first of all, ask if any PlanetPOV members are interested in creating an op ed piece.

If so, please leave a comment below, and write briefly the topic you would like to write about. Then we can see about helping people with similar interests work together.

This seems to be a better way to start.

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ChernynkayaPatsyTSueInCaKQµårk 死神Kalima Recent comment authors
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PatsyT
Member

Hi Everyone,
I have had a few busy weeks and did not look here to see what has been going on.
Education and Healthcare are big subjucts for me, let me know if
I can help in any way.

SueInCa
Member

Hello All

And a big welcome to Kirk. My main interest is in the financial side of things or court decisions and rulings. I also like doing the research for most anything. While I want reform passed, I am not as well versed as say someone like Cher on the healthcare issue/bill. I am also interested in the criminal/fraud stories/issues. I also like doing research and reporting or writing op eds on the religious right. I find the things they have gotten away with to date and are still doing fascinating in that most people are concerned with the Masons, CFR, Bilderbergs and Illuminati stories rather than a not so well kept secret from the religious right and their Dominionist policies. Personally I find that far more agregious as I have seen the religious right in action personally.
I will help wherever needed and I hope I have given you enough to make a decision. I have opportunities at anytime to write a piece here so actually penning the op-ed isn’t a high priority for me, unless of course, it is my idea.

Kirk
Member

Hello to you SueIn,

With your wide variety of interests, it is a pleasure to make your acquaintance. I look forward to reading your thoughts, on paper that is.

Kirk
Member

Hello Group PPOV
I tried to re-read all the comments under this OP-Ed piece to understand where the group would like to concentrate its efforts, and it sounds like HCR is what most of you want to work on, and I completely understand.

With that in mind, I will slowly draft some outline info for educational reform, and just submit it when I can. I am good with that if no one objects to this line of reasoning.

Kirk
Member

Ok guys, it’s me “Kirk” this is my new nickname, no more Kirk.

I believe I have fixed the email problem. It was so simple, you just un-subscribe to that posting. I guess I accidentally checked “Notify me of new comments to this post”

Thanks again everyone.

Kirk
Member

Ok guys a technical issue.

I keep getting email for every entry that anyone posts. How do I turn this off. I have received over 100+ emails from the “Admin”

Or maybe this is get the new guy stuff.

Please help!

bito
Member

Kirk go to the very top and you will see on the right”Contact Us”
Email AdLib, and he should clear that up for you.
Also, I suggest you post it in the help desk–Big Red Button above recent posts.

Kirk
Member

To all PlanetPOV,

If I have gotten off on the wrong footing, forgive.

I am nothing if I am not passionate, maybe to a fault.

I am listening, educate me.

Kirk

escribacat
Member

No wrong footing that I’ve noticed!!

kesmarn
Admin

Not to worry, Kirk!
Believe me, things have gotten much more “rough and tumble” around here than this, and all parties have emerged still intact. And even laughing!
You’re doing fine, and you have much to contribute. Hang in there!

Kirk
Member

This posting is a test.

whatsthatsound
Member

You haven’t gotten off on the wrong foot from anything I’ve seen. You’re sharing your points of view about how to heal the planet on a site called PlanetPOV. What could be more perfect?

Kirk
Member

Ok fellow Planeteers, I feel it is important to know who you are crawling under the pages with. So I am going to provide you with a glimpse of me ole mindset. Here goes:

Greetings to my new found friends.

I think that if we are to work together to bring about change, then it is important for you to know a bit more about me, and what makes me tick. I have found that any successful relationship depends upon knowing with whom you are working. My purpose here is not to educate you but to let you see how I see things.

First and foremost, I believe that things happen for a reason. Generally, I do not believe things happen to us, I believe they happen because of us, primarily because of the choices we make. Additionally, I do not believe in victims, I believe this is a divisive state of mind which we have fallen prey. I do not believe in labels. I believe labels are divisive and divide us, as opposed to bringing us closer together. Labeling in biology was necessary to understand the organism that you are studying. In the human community, labels have often been used as devices that keep us fearful and distant from one another. Yet, the labeling of humanity, ethnicities and culture has been a missing ingredient in our educational system. The lack of understanding this creates, has provided a ripe medium from which fear and hatred grow, needing only disinformation to ignite peoples around divisive causes. For the above reasoning, I believe the focus on educational reform to be of primary importance in bringing about any lasting evolutionary change in our world. However, this change cannot wait for the right time, it must happen now, for this change effects everything we do, and hope to do.

With that said, I do not believe that making things wrong is a successful method for changing minds. I do believe in empowering the individual to make informed decisions, inspiring them to want to learn more, thereby seeking to expand their understanding of their

escribacat
Member

Hi Kirk, I find the issue of “victim” interesting and worthy of debate. I agree there are “victim types,” or professional victims but I also think you can take the “there are no victims” idea too far.

Take, for example, someone who has cancer. Some folks believe that cancer victims brought it on themselves because of a personality flaw. There is an excellent book about this by Susan Sontag called “Illness as Metaphor.” She talks about the “tubercular personality” (John Keats, the tormented poet whose tuberculosis fit his angst-ridden personality) and the “cancer personality” whose neurotic thought patterns grew into cancer. Sontag (who had cancer) deeply resented this stereotype — and I don’t blame her. I think cancer happened to her. She didn’t do anything or think in any particular way to bring it on herself. It just happened.

So, although I do agree that some people do bring their misfortunes upon themselves by making bad choices, there are many, many cases where they are just plain victims. I can think of two friends of mine: One woman is a smart, independent editor of an arts magazine. A year ago she started limping. Today, she can’t walk because of a muscular atrophy disease. Another friend was a smart financial investor. She bought a duplex in Boulder, Colo years ago for next to nothing and sold it for a million bucks a couple years before the bubble burst. Unfortunately, she invested all that money into two partnerships that purchased a couple shopping malls. The company running the partnerships turned out to be a Madoff-style ponzi scheme and last I heard she had lost almost all that money. She did all the right things but got screwed anyway. I don’t see how her actions or beliefs brought this down upon her. Maybe she could have taken more action, hired a detective to investigate this firm. But I still see her as a victim.

Kirk
Member

Wow, my intention was not to offend any beliefs, but to engage ideas. Since I did not personally know the individuals who you are siting here, I cannot comment on their relevance to this point. But this issue is far more complicated than who is a good or bad person. Whether we get cancer or not is not irrelevant, but I believe it does mean that we are vulnerable for some reason. At least it does for me. For years I thought things happened to me, until one day I stopped becoming the victim, hopefully that makes sense. I chose to be what I was, no one forced me, and that reality has empowered me.

escribacat
Member

You must be misinterpreting my post. I’m not offended at all. Just stating my ideas on the subject–engaging ideas, as you say.

Kirk
Member

Gotcha, I mean, yes I understand.

bito
Member

Speaking to an oncologist in a research clinic we were discussing about the question of a person having six(6) billion switches of DNA in their bodies. Ah, the quiz: how many and which ones turn off/on that give a person a cancer (or any other disease). What, when and where a certain environmental factor enters into the equation. There was no mention of rich, poor, good or bad. Even if we could all live in little pristine bubble, there are people that a certain number of those switches won

Kirk
Member

Yes Bito back to education, but!

For another time, all those switches are effected by something, and is it something outside of us maybe not. Science has explored many schools of thought lately trying to connect the dots, and the dots they connect put a lot more emphasis upon our thoughts and intentions than most of us are aware of. The new marriage of Science and Religion called Quantum Physics. While it is empowering it is also speaking to our responsibility to the world around us. i.e “What the Bleep, Down the Rabbit Hole”

escribacat
Member

Kirk — I had a feeling you had seen “What the Bleep Do We Know?” I have seen it many, many times (I bought it). After reading my other post about victims, you may be surprised to learn that I was enthralled by that movie and the ideas in it. I went through a period where I practiced the “create your day” thing. Now, this is going to sound stupid, perhaps, but during that period, my “heart dog” (a greyhound named Betty) died horribly of no apparent cause and I was utterly devastated by it and concluded “screw that create your day crap.” Kind of pathetic, I realize, but that’s what happened.

Kirk
Member

Yes Escrib, I do find great strength in ideas brought forth by Quantum Physics, but would not try and judge your devastating experience. Sorry for you loss.

bito
Member

Kirk the dots and what does and does not connect and causes and non causes and Gods and quarks and string theory….This is not just some academic little chit chat for me.
The statement I posted is very real to me.
You see I have incurable lymphoma and I am in a clinical study doing research on why/how people get these types of cancers.

meanwhile, EDUCATION and what needs to be done

Kirk
Member

I understand.

KevenSeven
Member

Would an earthquake happen because of things internal to an individual?

You have an excellent concept, overall. But many concepts can be stretched past a breaking point.

Kirk
Member

Keven,
If your question is a serious inquiry, then the answer is yes, but it would take many individuals. It would take thousands of individuals meditating with a single intent to bring about a change of that magnitude, and those types of phenomenon are now scientific fact.

But the real point is, who would want to create an earthquake. Instead, how about world peace.

And yes, any concept can be taken to a point at which it becomes meaningless, or absurd, but then you have ask, whats the point.

Kirk
Member

I guess my openness here is being questioned, and that is OK with me. I need input, as to whether I should delete this post. If you who are veterans of this world of blogging feel it should be, then by all means remove it, please. I completely understand, and shall learn from this experience.

Thanks Kirk

escribacat
Member

I see no reason to delete your post, Kirk. It’s got a lot of interesting topics in it!

Chernynkaya
Member

ArtMan, welcome to the Planet! And I mean that sincerely even though I reject your ideas about how we create our own reality. I am sorry to disagree with you right off the bat, but you put it out for discussion I assume.

When you replied about how we as a group can create earthquakes though our intentions(?), thought’s(?) (I don’t want to put word in your mouth)or through whatever means, I have to say, it sounds an awful lot like Pat Robertson to me. He also believes that our collective actions create reality– only in his view, we inspire the wrath of god. I don’t think that’s what you mean, but it is too close to that idea for my comfort.

KQµårk 死神
Member

I’ve spent most of the weekend off line regarding political issues because I just needed a break.

I’ve have been thinking about these ProjectPOV allot though. First I agree with WTS that probably on some of the main issues nellie is the best point person to write some op-eds herself, especially campaign finance after the recent SCOTUS debacle. I also don’t see where everyone has exactly the same POV so individuals on the Planet can write their own op-eds if they wish.

I think we should have an approach with as much individual choice as possible. We should have small groups do the work if that’s what some folks want and others who like to work individually should work on their own. The more letters and articles that come from these efforts the better. The power we can put behind this effort is to use the blog’s name behind it and our individual names on a voluntary basis. If you, nellie are willing we can submit things through you to get help sending them to the right people. I know this will test the egalitarian boundaries of the Planet but I think it fits both our sense of community while maintaining our individual expression as well.

I know with healthcare for example I may have different objectives than some because I’m of the pass the bill opinion while others want to push for more. I want write and op-ed on healthcare in that vane if anyone wants to sign off on it it’s fine with me. Not because I’m the best writer but because I want to express my POV.

escribacat
Member

KQ — I hope you will write an op-ed on health care reform. You could actually put something together using posts you’ve made already. There have been many instances over the past couple months when a post or comment of yours has eloquently and precisely stated my exact feelings on the subject (I hope the house passes the senate bill) and has even clarified things for me. I will sign anything you write!

kesmarn
Admin

KQ, I’m with e’cat. Your use of logic in your comments, and your analytical powers really helped shape my thoughts and opinions on HCR. For I while, when compromise after compromise seemed to be the order of the day, I wondered if the “scrap it all and go back to the drawing board” approach was the right one. You and b’ito convinced me otherwise. You have a lot to contribute to the healthcare debate.

bito
Member

Let the collaboration begin ❗

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN START YOUR MINDS 💡

( there is the authors corner everyone can use)

kesmarn
Admin

Vrrooooooom. Vrooooooom.

(Went to college about two miles from the Indianapolis 500 track. All through May, we could hear the engines roaring around the track getting ready for the big Memorial Day race.)

boomer1949
Member

kesmarn – for sure you can play 🙂 wouldn’t have it any other way.

kesmarn
Admin

nellie, now that I look at AdLib’s comment, the question comes to mind: were you thinking in terms of a particular time frame for this piece? I mean, I can see the point AdLib raises of addressing critical and maybe somewhat shorter-term goals before the November election. Education reform is crucial but maybe a longer-term goal. What are your thoughts? And every else’s?

Kirk
Member

Kesmarn,

If I may. I think that parallel activities should be split among those with the greatest ability to interact with the pieces, whether it be current issues or educational reform.

kesmarn
Admin

Makes complete sense, Kirk. It doesn’t have to be either/or, but rather both (if that’s what people prefer).

AdLib
Admin

Nellie, I’m just offering these suggestions as a member. My priorities are:

a. Bold action by Congress and Obama in legislation, accomplish more Progressive agenda issues and don’t move to the middle, forget about bipartisanship and eliminate the Filibuster.

b. Continue HCR, break out the consumer protections from expanding Medicare, pass the former with 60 votes then pass the latter with 51 votes via Reconciliation.

c. Immediate Congressional action to regulate corporations, especially any who have received TARP, subsidy money or government contracts (taxpayer money in any way) from campaign spending.

My feeling is that there are some enormous issues that if not addressed before the election in November, may be lost for a long time if not forever and will imperil a wide variety of pro-citizen issues.

KevenSeven
Member

I kinda gotta say, I like that b. thing….

kesmarn
Admin

nellie, I must say I’m very intrigued by Kirk’s suggestion of putting something together on education. And, to Kirk: I’m wondering if you’ve read John Taylor Gatto’s “Dumbing Us Down” and what you think about it.

Even though education may seem to be a sort of tangential subject re: all the other stuff that Obama and Libs in general have on their plates, I think it’s much more of a core issue than might appear at first glance.

Citizens who had been better educated in history and critical thinking skills would, I think, have been much less likely to: a.) be impressed by someone like Sarah Palin, b.) join the Tea Party movement, c.) vote the way the citizens of Massachusetts just did, and d.) take the recent SCOTUS decision lightly—-and that’s just to name a few!

I have a feeling we are fast approaching a time when the citizens of this nation will not be capable at all of mature participation in a democracy–if we don’t do something with our system of education. Then it really will be the beginning of the end. We can weather financial problems and/or natural disasters–even attacks like 9/11–but when we lose the brain power of our citizens we’re sitting ducks for some sort of dictatorship–corporate, religious or political.

Khirad
Member

It really should be self-evident. The fact that it isn’t speaks to the fundamental problem. I’m not that well versed on the subject, except for coming from a family of educators, though.

One book really ‘spelled’ it out for me – how education has evolved with the age (classical/agragrian/industrial), and how the interests that be are more interested in producing subservient, pliant employees. Educated enough to be competent in their performance, but not to question critically.

It was Bowles’ Schooling in Capitalist America. I read it during my Trotsky phase in my late teens or early twenties, and I guess it must have left an impression on me.

kesmarn
Admin

Coming from a family of educators makes your thoughts even more valuable, Khirad! I think if we were to attempt a collaborative writing project here at the Planet, this topic might get quite a bit of interest.

Kirk
Member

Kesmarn,

I am not familiar with John Taylor Gatto’s work, but will look it up, thanks. Boy keeping up with the direction and energy of these posts, is a great mental workout.

I also agree that education may seem less important with regards to critical issues that we are presently facing, but I for one, feel that the task is so large and complicated that it needs to have been started years ago, and given the vast number of intelligent people who should have already protested the debauchery of our pedagogy, begs one to question, what the hells been going on. So I really feel we must act now to address education even in light of all the other fires.

kesmarn
Admin

Kirk, I think you’ll really enjoy Gatto. He taught in New York for about 30 years and was very effective, including winning the New York State Teacher of the Year award. But the longer he taught, the more disillusioned he became. He was discerning enough to see the transformation–over the years–of education from a vocation to a business. And–as you noted–he saw children being viewed more as future labor resources than as creative, curious, eternally growing individuals. They were conditioned to be unquestioning drones, knowing just enough to follow orders with reasonable efficiency and to respond like automatons to the bells that signalled the time to switch from one task to the next. Well, I won’t re-cap the whole book. Gatto says it all much better. But he had a lot of wonderful ideas for educational reform.

Kirk
Member

Kesmarn, Sounds wonderful as a footnote to reform, sounds tragic to think that is reality.

It sounds like Gatto mirrors much of what I have experienced out here in California, as eduction had been morphed by the bean-counters who know nothing of education, except how to account for the money etc.. as if that had anything to do with measuring a students understanding of the world around him. Boy is this a hot topic.

kesmarn
Admin

There’s going to be plenty to talk about on this subject!

(I keep promising myself I’m going to bed, and then there’s another interesting comment and I look up at the clock and another 20 minutes have gone by!)

You may find this place is addicting>

whatsthatsound
Member

Nellie, I think a group op-ed piece is a herding cats endeavor under almost any circumstances. You are one of the most knowledgeable people here, and your writing is solid. You don’t need us!

escribacat
Member

I think you’re probably right, wts. One of my things is I’m writing all day long. When I write for PPOV, I only want to do fun stuff. I don’t want to have to WORK at it, like research and whatnot. Work? Ew!! 😀

whatsthatsound
Member

Best work lyrics, from the Emerald City:

We get up at twelve and start to work at one;
take an hour for lunch and then at two we’re done,
jolly good fun!

boomer1949
Member

…and behind the curtain is…?