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SueInCa On April - 1 - 2012

 

I remember when I was young we would watch shows like Donna Reed, I Love Lucy and Father Knows Best and in everyone of these shows the parents slept in twin beds.  Now when I was that age I probably did not pay that much attention but I do remember thinking how uncool my parents were because I saw a big ole queen size bed in their room.  I mean if Donna Reed did not sleep in the same bed as her husband, why did my mom?  At this time in our household my mom was through with having children so I had no conception of a pregnant mom since I was 7 years old when she had my baby sister and I spent that summer with an aunt in San Diego.  I had friends whose mothers were still having babies but somehow I never made that connection back to sex.  Now I know where the double beds came from and also know my parents were the rule not the exception in bedroom furniture.

All of that occurred back in at least 1963.  That is almost 50 years ago and now we have some people in this country who would like to see us go back to that time.  They want to monitor every part of your intimate life and control what women do with their bodies.  They want to stop abortion, stop contraceptives, anihilate gays, tell you what positions are acceptable, force a woman to have a camera inserted into her body so they can punish her with pictures of a fetus that is probably the size of a kidney bean.  And most of this is supposedly to stop abortions.  I don’t believe it, I believe abortions and gays were designated as wedge issues in order to divert attention from the real objective of the religious right. The right knows Roe v. Wade has been the law of the land since 1973 and they know it would be extremely hard to strike down a law that, on the Federal level gives women protection under the 9th and 14th amendments.  In short, the party  of states rights, personal responsibility, small government ad naseum wants to control the exact things they rail against, rights granted to us by the Constitution.  And I think on their part it is more controlling your ability to make decisions for yourself.  Your right to decide what is right for you and your significant other, your family, your goals in life.  The fact that it is totally out of line with their stated principles has been lost in their fervor for control.  Next thing you know, they will ask for proof that you are following all their rules if you want to vote.

The right can “pray away the gay” because everyone knows it is a life choice not a predispostion you are born with that makes a person gay.  The recent repeal of “don’t ask don’t tell” made the religious right almost go apoplectic and if DOMA is repealed you will hear a loud roar from that side of the aisle.  When the Reverand Gene Robinson was ordained as a Bishop in the Episcopal Church the religious right went ballastic.  No matter that most are not even Episcopalian but to the religious right that does not matter.  This week a document written by NOM was discovered with language to “drive a wedge between blacks and gays” in order to further NOM’s agenda.  What does matter, yet again, is control.  They have tried many tactics to interfere in others’ personal business and never see their tactics as infringing on others rights.  They do not understand how they could be doing so, yet they have no problem screaming, legitimately or not, that their rights are being infringed upon.  They are fully able to practice their religion, so long as that practice does not interfere with a person’s right not to practice religion or to practice a religion sometimes very different from the Religious Right’s.  Part of the problem is that in Christianity they teach you to follow Christ’s commands and two of those the right really take to heart are:

Matthew 28:19:  Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

Mark 16:15:  And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

Of course they have many more but these two give them the go ahead to foist their beliefs on every living creature on earth.  They have done so by placing missionaries all over the world but they are saving us for their own special doctrination.  What Christ should have said to them was:

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.  But, and this is very important, you must remember my Father gave man free will and that means that some people are not going to take kindly to our little scheme.  That is within their right as a person of free will and you can take a horse to water but you cannot make them drink so please use discretion.

Can you see how that might have helped them in their zeal to Christianize everything?  Neither can I but I did give it a try.  You can see their handiwork in Africa where they have stirred up the pot on LGBT rights and even found a devil named KONY who has been terrorizing his part of Uganda for years.  What they thought was that they could make a video with a cute little kid and soak people for money and no one would question them.  Unfortunately for Jason Russell people all over questioned his motives which resulted in him becoming dehydrated and exhausted.  Then he ended up as a 5150 in the county hospital because he broke down and went into the streets naked in an apparent psychotic break.  I am sure his backers also had something to do with that episode as they probably backed off, ruining his little kingdom and perhaps his life but just like they walked off on Uganda and denied responsibility, they most likely did so here as well.

What they are really doing is testing their beliefs on the rest of us, how far can they go, what is the breaking point, how could that be managed in a perfect circumstance?  And a perfect circumstance to them is control of both houses of Congress, the Executive Office, The Supreme Court and local and state offices .   Another area of control they have been building is the Military.  They are making sure their friends have contracts for services, that Jesus is in training documents for our armed forces and of course that our military hardware and troops have the tracts necessary to preach their gospel to the world and in my eyes that is a perfect storm.  In this perfect storm they truly believe they can fundamentally change this country into what they claim our forefathers wanted for us.  God knows they have said it enough for anyone who pays the slightest bit of attention, to know and understand.  But people still either do not know or think “It Can’t Happen Here!”  During the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Holocaust did good soldiers not help the cause along?  Did they not believe in the oath they took to protect and defend the constitution, the Roman government, the Vatican, Hitler?  Whatever they promised to uphold is exactly what they did.  What would make anyone think that a military today that has been trained as they have and now been steeped in religious training would speak out or deny their Commander in Chief or their Generals?  Sure some would but to disobey a direct order is just not in a soldier’s nature.  If it were we would not have had a Holocaust, a MyLei, a Fallujah and many millions would have lived.

If you look at the whole picture, you have to admit they are working towards something and if you have seen them in action the past three years, you KNOW they do not like to be out of power.  One thing I can say for them, in power or not, they have never lost site of the prize.  They have worked diligently in many different areas to consolidate power and the rest of us have not.  They already had their “Pearl Harbor Moment” and you see how well that one worked out.  I am watching every move they make, how about you?

 

 

 

Written by SueInCa

I am a soon to be 59 Nana to Anthony who is 11. I live in Benicia CA with my husband and Shih Tsu. I worked in Banking and the Financial Industry for 24 years in Fraud, Risk Management, Account Management, Program Management, Project Management and Customer Service. I was a Fraud Investigator for Credit Card and Merchant Business and investigated internal fraud and responded to Bank robberies. I was also management in most of these positions. Now I am content to find a part time job where I am just a worker bee, no more corporate BS for this gal. I also make jewelry. I can spend hours in a bead shop just touching all the fine baubles. Only another beader would understand that one.

70 Responses so far.

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  1. Kalima says:

    Wonderful article Sue, and being as I had never been exposed to these fanatics before I started blogging in 07′, I really had no idea how far they are prepared to go. For me as a Christian, there would be nothing worse than politicians trying to insert their beliefs onto the rest of the population. I could move to Iran or Saudi Arabia if I wanted to live this way, or even join the Taliban.

    Belief has always been a very private thing in my life, and until I started blogging, I don’t remember anyone ever asking me what religion I belonged to, not as an adult anyway, or having it thrown right, left and center over at that other place, so it was a shock for me, as I believe in live and let live as long as it doesn’t harm others. Unfortunately in the U.S. religious beliefs are very much a part of what some politicians are trying to pass off as new laws, and I’m sorry but for the life of me I can’t understand why this is allowed to happen in a country as advanced as yours. As I said before, some of the lawmakers in too many states, are not fit to govern. That so few crackpots can hold the rest of you hostage just because you happen to live in their states, is really incredible to me, they have too much power. I live in a country where I can’t vote, but no one would try to take away the things I believe in or imprint their beliefs on to me, so I consider myself very lucky.

    I just read this article by Andrew Sullivan, and leave the link here because strangely enough it comes as close to how I feel about my faith, and all that is wrong in certain corners of the U.S. and the world today, as anything I’ve recently read. He covers the simple teachings of Jesus, the 10 Commandment which is something I have said here many times myself as being a basis for how I live my life, and the cherry picking done by so many for their own ends which leads us to be lumped in when people spit out the word Christians, something I find unjust and unnecessary because you can judge people by how they choose to live their lives without hanging labels on them. To use the word Christian about yourself, you have to follow what he taught, and we know he didn’t teach hate and disrespect for those less fortunate than ourselves, so using that name is false advertising, it’s blatant hijacking, and gives the rest of us a bad name.

    Again thank you for your always spot on insight, these people are scary, but at the same time they are damaged, pathetic and to someone like me, who is not there to see or hear them first hand, almost laughable. A group of feeble minded people being led by politicians and preachers who just want to exploit their ignorance until they are no longer useful.

    This was the article.

    —-

    Andrew Sullivan: Christianity in Crisis

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/04/01/andrew-sullivan-christianity-in-crisis.html

    • SueInCa says:

      Kalima

      Great article/op-ed by Andrew Sullivan. This paragraph really says it all for me:

      ‘That’s why polls show a huge majority of Americans still believing in a Higher Power. But the need for new questioning—of Christian institutions as well as ideas and priorities—is as real as the crisis is deep”

      This has been me since I was 14 or 15. I still attended church services as required in our household but as soon as I turned 18 it was all over for me. I saw the scandals in the church, saw the do as I say attitude and it made me sick.

      When you have men of “free will” they are going to assert their own will on others because they do not understand that free will was given for them and only them. I think that was basically what Andrew was getting at especially with his last words

      “But the essence of this change has been with us, and defining our own civilization, for two millennia. And one day soon, when politics and doctrine and pride recede, it will rise again”

      I hope he was right. Thanks for that article it was a great read first thing in the morning

  2. SueInCa says:

    Sexy Christian Nymphos -- Married Sex -- Spicy the way God intended

    http://christiannymphos.org/2009/04/01/sexy-art-part-two/

    • SallyT says:

      Sherlock, what the hell! Okay, I love this comment:

      “The only thing I would caution about this is that this could cause your husband to lust. Be careful about the pictures you pick that they don’t tempt your husband to lust. My husband struggled with porn for years and I have to be very careful as to what pictures I bring into our house. Even the most innocent picture of a woman can cause problems. He is very honest with me and has shocked me many times with how even relatively modest women can cause him to stumble. Remember men are very visual. Just be careful when it comes to sensual pictures… even paintings.”

      Something tells me this lady has table clothes that go clear to the floor so her husband wouldn’t lust for the table’s legs! (They use to do that in Victorian Days with their tables to keep the hubby from getting all hot and bother over the table’s shapely legs.)

      Okay, which picture is it that will get my husband all lusty and maybe we can get hot and bothered on top of the table???? :)

      • SueInCa says:

        LOl I found this site years ago and here we have stupid christians having unprotected anal sex. This is your next breed of AIDS victims. Because they don’t believe in birth control dumb bitches.

  3. This is an excellent portrayal of how those in the RW power structure view homosexuality among their own;


  4. SallyT says:

    Sherlock, this is a hard case to close. It will take more than just us. For they are out there working hard to clothe their secret. We may not learn how far they have reached until we have lost too much. It is good that there are those that point things out, as you have done. I received several frowns when I started questioning that video that was sweeping the internet world wide. I just didn’t feel comfortable with it. But, I wasn’t alone in those feelings. Just as fast as their words were spreading, so where those out there questioning them. We do have some of the same tools to use as they do and we can turn them on them.
    Jesus did not write the New Testament. It was written by man many years after He had left this earth and His footsteps from the sand. They are words that can be twisted. They can be used for bad as well as good. And, in their use they have done many evil things. Jesus was a good man but he was not the only good man that walked this earth. There are many sources of teachings and not one is all correct by itself. Our government was not founded on just Greek democracy but on the Roman Republic, as well. Both founded long before Jesus tried to teach.|
    Can those with the secret control our military? Our young people learn to follow orders and to not question why in their training. They are taught to fear, but be brave, and to kill. This, among so much more, leads them to have difficulty in readjusting to our society when they return home from battle. But, even our police forces show how power can control. Occupy is a peaceful movement to show the wrongs in our government. Yet, they are attacked by the police in their gear, armed with pepper spray, clubs, and guns. These are some of the unions that the Occupy movement is trying to protect. But, is it the power, the gear, the orders, or the control that makes them push and beat those trying to help their cause as well as their own? No we need a riot for them to convince us that we need them to control us. So, push us until we try to fight back and then they can weaken the cause all together. However, lets not stop there. They give power to more with guns. Lets give them a law, “Stand Your Ground”, to be able to be the judge and jury with one shot. Protect your stuff, not just your lives, with deadly force. Some young person steals your car radio, shot and kill him so he will never do it again. No matter that you have car insurance that will cover the lost. No, it is your right! And, be sure to watch all those of color and in hoodies because they are diffidently up to no good. They scare you, so, kill them. Yes, vigilantist is the law. This is why you can not give the President respect. He is one of those in a hoodie. He is a socialist trying to take away all you have or may have an give it to the lazy.
    And, as in ancient times, put women in their place. Under the control of man because they are the weaker sex and cannot think for themselves. God gave them to serve man. It is in the Bible, no less! Ha! |
    No this is not the United States of America. This is not the country that those brave men, our founding fathers, fought to give us. They took on the largest empire in the world to get away from a King that was also the Head of the Church. Truth in history will show that it wasn’t really as bad as we have told ourselves under the King’s rule but the truth is we thought we could make something better. Learn from the good and correct the bad from those other governments. They fought hard and gambled too much for us to now just let us be taken back to ancient times, way before the government that Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Franklin and Washington worked and fought to give us. It was a foundation they gave us to build on, not tear down. Those with the secret cannot rewrite history to fit a different purpose now. We know too much and we will tell!
    No Sherlock, it is not elementary. Doctor Watson remains on call for you!

  5. Good article Sue. I found this website when I googled “UCMJ and religion.”

    http://donklephant.com/2009/05/04/why-religion-and-military-dont-mix/

    Proselytizing peoples of nations the military has bases in IS illegal, according to the Uniformed Code of Military Justice, but many officers and enlisted men are not following that law and are trying to convert Muslims in Afghanistan. They are handing out Christian bibles as a “language tool,” for Afghanis to learn English. Certainly a ruse to introduce Christianity to Muslims in that country.
    This article is from 2009, and I don’t know if this is still going on, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

    • SueInCa says:

      Also KT it was happening at very high levels of the military

    • SueInCa says:

      KT

      It is still going on. CL works with a guy, Mikey Weinstein, who runs the MRFF Military Religious Freedom Foundation and he has been fighting this proselytizing for years. It is hard to say how much has been stopped since Mikey started fighting because as soon as the spotlight is turned away these kocharoaches come right back out. Mikey wrote a book, A Snowflake in an Avalanche which I just finished reading a few weeks ago. If this interests you, I highly recommend it as a good read.

      • choicelady says:

        First -- in the synopsis of your post, the opening lines were posted right above your article’s title. Making me do a double take about CL and Mikey juxtaposed over “in your bedroom”. Yikes! Can assure you -- NOT! LOL!!!!

        That said, a lot has improved since MRFF -- and nothing has changed. Dominionists just keep finding new ways to infiltrate some event or impose some standard that, yes KT, violated the UCMJ which they think is hogwash.

        One question I want to toss out to Dominionists anywhere: Suppose you CAN force people into your presence. Suppose they sit there, under your mandate. Suppose it’s because they fear reprisals.

        What have you “won”? The victory is entirely political -- you’re showing “hearts and minds won” for the TV and other media. But you have NOT won hearts and minds -- in fact you have generated huge loathing and anger against you, your words, your goals, your beliefs.

        So if it’s political, well maybe you’re onto something. Numbers count even if they’re phony. That puts you right up there with Sun John Il’s faux “mourners” and every dictator that coerced masses into pretending to support him. Numbers matter, yes. For POLITICS.

        But if it’s RELIGIOUS -- not one single person who is dragooned into your presence counts for one single thing in the world of faith. NOTHING. If you believe, and you say you do, that “God reads what’s in your heart” then your faux followers, your coerced millions, mean nothing because they are not believers as you want them to be.

        Dominionists, since you believe there is an anthropomorphic God in Heaven and that he judges -- did it occur to you that it might well be YOU and your phony posturing that is raising up dis-satisfaction from God?

        So gather coerced audiences and crowds at your peril. You may not be following “God’s will” but your own. Never a good thing by YOUR lights.

        • SueInCa says:

          I don’t get it, yours and mikey’s name over in the bedroom? Where?

          • choicelady says:

            It was the synopsis of your comment to KT as abbreviated on the right hand side for recent comments. Just VERY funny!

            “KT It is still going on. CL works with a guy, Mikey…The Religious Right Assault on America – Your Bedroom”

      • Sue, this is from the article;

        For instance, take the Mikey Weinstein situation at the Air Force Academy…
        In recent years, accusations of evangelical line-crossing have piled up. In 2005, Fisher DeBerry, then the Air Force Academy’s football coach, was ordered to remove a “Team Jesus Christ” banner from the locker room. Senior officers who were filmed in uniform at the Pentagon for a Christian promotional video were reprimanded. Then in February, again at the academy, three professed exterrorists and reformed Christians were accused of putting a “Jesus saves”
        message in a presentation to cadets. Richardson, quoted three years ago in The New York Times as saying chaplains “reserve the right to evangelize the unchurched,” was cited in a lawsuit against the Air Force that claimed there was widespread proselytizing at the academy.
        The suit was brought by Mikey Weinstein, a former Air Force attorney and longtime critic of alleged coercive Christianity within the military. (As a result of the suit, a private chaplain association’s code of ethics retaining the “right to evangelize those who are not affiliated” is no longer passed out at Air Force Chaplain’s School.)

        I have no doubt that such proselytizing still goes on. I think maybe it is just a little more covert than it was a few years ago. Does Weinstein’s book mention anything about what is happening now? I would gurss that it does.

        • choicelady says:

          KT -- my organization supports Mikey, and I have worked very closely with Mikey personally, so I have very clear answers: it never stops, it always changes.

          Mikey has successfully challenged the military on MANY fronts and was the prime mover in getting the “Jesus rifles” (the sights with inscriptions) removed. He’s stopped Franklin Graham and a dozen extremists from being THE speaker (or speaking at all) at official events. MRFF has called out anti-Islamic and anti-everything practices and harassments that have even extended to racism, gay bashing, whatever. And he has stopped ALL of that and more.

          And the Dominionists continue to come back with new ways of oozing into positions of authority. Because my organization helps MRFF, I’m personally under attack at home (got followed from my office) to the point that I have to have security lights and cameras outside. I’ve had all kinds of very scary things happen. Mikey and his family are threatened with death daily, but the actual assaults on his home have diminished.

          So yes it’s better. No it’s not over. Maybe not EVER.

        • SueInCa says:

          Yes I know I read the article. Sorry if I did not make that clear sometimes I am lame like that. I think Mikey probably thinks like the rest of us following these people, he wins a case then they pop up with something else. So, yes Mikey and his family are still working on this.

          CL knows him personally I only know him from trading comments on twitter.

          • choicelady says:

            I’ll link here to you -- it’s OK, I get email from him hourly. Maybe tweets are overkill? I just think it’s GREAT that you two are communicating!

            There are moments in my life with MRFF where if a crisis has arisen, esp. in CA, it’s “all Mikey all the time”.

            So I think I won’t encourage tweets! He has every email and phone number of mine -- enough already! But if he says something cool you want to share -- please do! He is a fascinating, exasperating, admirable and successful voice for First Amendment rights in America. Could not ask for better.

          • choicelady says:

            Hey Sue -- he doesn’t tweet ME! That’s pretty cool of you!

            • SueInCa says:

              CL you have to follow him, he will tweet with you too. I started the conversation

  6. Excellent piece Sue. You described it perfectly when you said it was all about control and power. The Religious right care less about the Constitution and civil liberties.

    GOP pols also lie to their flock. They have no intention on absolutely overturning Roe v. Wade. They had six years under Bush and Repug Congress and they did very little compared to what they are doing now. They want to limit a women’s access to exercising choice as much as possible but they need the SCOTUS ruling to drum up outrage so they can keep their coffers full.

    I think at the 40,000 foot level the worse thing the religious right is doing now is rewriting Jesus’ intentions and saying Jesus would condone the ‘greed is good’ mentality of Reagan. They want to demonize poor people which is totally opposite of what Jesus actually said. They want to ignore that Jesus was part of the working classes at best.

    • choicelady says:

      KQ -- if they overturned Roe and ended abortion then shoved ALL the GLBT people back in the closet -- what WOULD they do to mobilize the masses and raise money? I’m NOT joking -- that is all that keeps them alive and rich. Think about the fact that we had almost NONE of this until 1973 when Roe passed. All the uptick of the Religious Right REALLY came to the fore after that. Add in GLBT civil rights work, and they just took off and made MANY multi-millionaires out of nobodies. If they “won” this fight -- no one would give them money. They have nothing else to say.

    • SueInCa says:

      Thanks KQ. At the 40,000 ft level you may be right the problem comes in when they get down to the 10,000 foot level. I will never forget the hysteria they were able to generate over 9/11 and the unconstitutional Patriot Act they were able to pass within a month. No one can tell me that bill was not waiting in the wings, especially knowing the PNAC existed and were in high government positions. I remember being confused at all the hysteria against Iraq and even asked my cousin who was in the military at the time how Iraq fit the war scenario. He told me everyone knows that Iraq was really behind it and just because we could not find WMD’s did not mean they were not hiding them very cleverly. He was a Captain in the navy, educated at Syracuse University and graduated top of his class yet he believed it all. I was just flabbergasted. So, yes I do believe it can happen here. When terror is written onto the psyche of the public they will make decisions that they normally would not. They will also, at times, regret those decisions when it is too late.

      I sincerely hope that I am not right. I hope someday people laugh at me and say I was wrong but until then, I am watching all the time.

      • choicelady says:

        Paul O’Neill was Bush’s Secretary of the Treasury in 2001. The very first -- VERY FIRST -- Cabinet meeting after the inauguration in January 2001, Bush announced the US was going to war with Iraq. JANUARY! O’Neill recounted this shocking information in his autobiographical description of his 2 years with the Bush administration, “The Price of Loyalty”. That may explain why the Patriot Act and many other responses to 9/11 came so fast. They WERE on the ground already.

        • CL, unlike the 911 truthers, which I’m sure you are not one of them, I believe every word in your comment. Bush and the PNAC were just champing at the bit to invade Iraq. Pre-emptive military strikes in the heart of the ME was/is very much a part of their foreign policy philosophy.

          I think they were waiting, hoping, and praying for an event like 911 so they could grab the power they wanted and to set up a military staging ground in Iraq, from which they could launch further pre-emptive strikes in the ME! That’s why many of them are still trying to drum up a war with Iran.

        • SueInCa says:

          I will have to read his book. I read about him in the course of my research these past years but not his actual book.

  7. kesmarn says:

    Thanks again, Sue, for this latest installment in your very, very valuable series.

    I’m sure you’ve wondered, as I have, what the RR’s dream of a perfect world would be… One in which women were out of the workplace and confined to the home, bearing baby after baby (since abortion and birth control would be gone). Of course everyone would be “Christian” (not liberal Catholic or Protestant either, but “true” Christians of the Dominionist brand). Women would have to prove their orthodoxy by letting their hair grow long, eschewing make-up and jewelry, and wearing long skirts and blouses that covered their elbows at all times.

    Men would rule the household and the workplace. White men, that is. It would be important for any other kind to “know their place” in this rigidly hierarchical universe. And LGBT folks would just have to vanish if they weren’t able to repent of the error of their ways.

    The police and the military would be in charge of enforcement in this paradise, and absolute, unquestioning obedience would be required. For those who thought otherwise, there would be plenty of pepper spray and for-profit prison space available.

    Hmmmm… and what does this scenario remind you of? The very thing they spend so much of their time ranting about? A takeover of America by religious extremists? (They refer to it as “sharia law.”)

    Will they ever figure it out? “We have met the enemy, and they are us.”

    • choicelady says:

      Kes -- I think a huge change occurred in 1976 with the “I Found It” movement which kicked off the full court press of Dominionism via the Campus Crusade (part of the “Fellowship” or “The Family”.) It stopped requiring women to look dowdy. It stopped asking anyone to be anything -- you were able to be born again and NOT have to be unworldly. Look at Tammy Faye Baker on to Palin, Bachman etc. You could be or do anything including indulging in homosexual activities, having abortions, etc. -- because it was just a minor mis-step from which you could “repent”. You can be born again just once, but you can be “forgiven” endlessly. Women were meant to be sexy AND submissive, to be attractive to men (look at Newt’s rejection of wives one and two as too UNattractive) and even be in the public arena JUST SO you could disseminate the will of the men behind the scenes.

      They don’t want modest and plain women -- they want glam but want it to be for their husbands (or any guy of power who wants them -- witness Herman Cain’s sense of sexual entitlement).

      They actually have very little interest in the sex lives of their own kind -- abortions are fairly commonplace given clinic evidence -- but the one absolutely unforgiveable issue is to assert that being gay or having control over yourself as a woman is OK AS A CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLE. Thus the “pledge” NOM has made GOP candidates sign is not to hunt down gays but to hunt down those who ADVOCATE for gay rights and equality.

      Gene Robinson’s “offense” is asserting equality sufficient to lead a large body of Christians. The Episcopal church sins in accepting that. Christians who support women’s right to choose abortion are damned because they affirm Christian principles behind that acceptance. That is the unforgiveable issue. Since almost every Protestant denomination affirms women’s moral agency over her own life, that is the unforgiveable sin.

      In other words -- it’s the affirmation of Christian equality, not the deeds, that drive Dominionists nuts.

      BTW -- if you want to make homophobes nuts, just ask them at what point they “decided” to be straight.

      • kesmarn says:

        That’s a very interesting observation, c’lady. There is that “glam Christianity” angle, too, isn’t there?

        I have family members who are into the pseudo-Amish, prairie-girl version — which definitely is still a factor in the heartland.

        But you’re right. There is that Bachmann-Palin Dominionist Tart variety, too. Power wielding in their own weirdly powerless way. Iron butterflies. Dominating through a warped version of “submission.”

        • choicelady says:

          Yes -- Dominionist Tart! I’ve mentioned that to more than one anti-abortion female protester showing up in lace-up leather bustiers. And I am NOT making that up!

          The Mennonites, Amish, and other largely Germanic conservative Christian groups do tend to the plain living. I think they’re fine -- they lead their lives in quiet without imposition on the rest of us. Where the hell would we be without the work the Mennonites do in starting economic cooperatives in desperately poor Third World nations? They put it on the line and live by their lights doing amazing good things. Not a problem. They are not Dominionists.

          Those who are tend toward the flamboyent, the intensely sexual, the hyper-girlie. Remember Maybelle Morgan’s books on how to be sexy Christian housewives? It’s bizarre in the extreme. The amount of unrestrained boffing of one another (irrespective of gender) among the self righteous coupled with revelations of drug use, drinking, etc. simply boggle my mind. I heard all the FIRST HAND from their own lips. Frankly -- I would not have believed it if someone had told me they were absolutely wanton in their personal behavior. All summed up in a snotty toss-off line one of them had:

          “I’m born again. I can do anything I want.”

          And there you have it. Well -- YOU don’t have it. They do. You are damned to hell. Just thought you’d like to know.

          • kesmarn says:

            c’lady, if there are Planeteers there (and I’m sure the Dominionists think there will be) we might just redefine what hell is all about! 😆

            • SallyT says:

              CL, you might add next time, “Oh, yah? I heard that it rains all the time up there in those clouds!”

            • choicelady says:

              Although I dislike hot climates, I’d sure prefer the company!

              I think I told this story before -- it’s quite true -- that during one incredibly hot and horrifically humid day outside a women’s clinic, one of the protesters sneered at me, “It’s going to be a lot hotter than this where YOU’RE going!” I replied, “Well, maybe -- but I hear it’s a DRY heat.”

              For some reason she stalked off…

          • SallyT says:

            I use to wear laced up bustiers. Now I would have to tie buckets hanging from my shoulders to catch my boobs before they hit my knees!

            • choicelady says:

              But see, Sally -- YOU have a sense of your own self and the limits to “fashion” that is appropriate for you!

              I have yet to recover from seeing a short, 250-lb female protester outside a women’s clinic wearing a yellow-and-black striped tube top. No bra. It was like watching a mutant bumblebee -- no one could look anywhere else waiting for the inevitable calamity that threatened.

              I still have nightmares.

        • Hey kes. I love it, “Dominionist Tart!” 😉

          • kesmarn says:

            Tart-Zillas!! RUN!!

            • AlphaBitch says:

              CL: Seriously? You need help with that? PRICK-zilla. Or maybe it’s zillo????

            • choicelady says:

              PERFECT!!!!!

              Of coure generically, male and female together, they are all GOD-zillas! Now if we can get a definition for just the males…I’m not coming up with one. Anybody?

      • Chernynkaya says:

        Perfectly said, C’Lady. A Christian (the authentic kind) once asked me, sincerely, why Jews don’t accept Jesus Christ as our Savior. I asked her why she didn’t accept Mohammed as God’s Messenger.

        • choicelady says:

          Good comeback! Protestants tend not to consider the “personal savior” part. In all my days as a kid in a self-selected Methodist church (my folks were tolerant Unitarians) and on through adulthood, NO one ever told me to take Jesus as my personal savior. Thank goodness. I always found that kind of repellant and grandiose. That’s why Protestants are “merely” Protestants but Dominionists are Christians. You hear someone tell you they’re Christian -- that now is what they mean. Not Catholic, not Protestant, not Quaker, not EVEN Evangelical -- “Christian” now in their eyes applies to ONLY Fundamentalists.

          The slimy, creepy question about “not accepting Jesus as your personal savior” directed to Jews is revolting, and it’s only marginally less so directed at other Christians who do NOT think that’s the issue at all. Ann Coulter’s smarmy “Jews need to be perfected” comment is beyond disgusting -- and she got her butt in a wringer saying this to what’s his name who is Jewish because Dominionists are supposed to be nice to Jews now, to get hold of Israel to fulfill prophecy. She almost blew it. Tsk tsk!

          I’m sure, Cher, this comforts you after 2000 years of persecution? Now they have to be “nice” to you -- even as they whisper behind your back that, too bad, Cher’s going to hell.

          Honest to Pete, I never thought I’d live to see this day when every screaming bigotry possible lifted up its disgusting head, all under the rubric of “Christianity”. Yikes.

        • SueInCa says:

          Cher
          Same thing if you ask them when they decided to be straight as opposed to LGBT they just stare at you and do not understand the flaw in their own logic

        • SallyT says:

          Cher, I’d say that was a perfect response to such a question! :)

      • SueInCa says:

        CL
        You have uncovered, for me, why people like Palin, the cougers at fox and other rightwingers can be so blatantly sexist in their dress and their language. Forgiveness every night. Somehow if there is a God up there I think he is laughing at them in fact they keep him laughing all day too. what they don’t know is he is laughing at them because their idea of the rapture is not happening.

        • SallyT says:

          Who is that woman with pink tinted hair, all pouffe up and makeup like Tammy Faye on that one religious network? I don’t know the name because I don’t watch it. But, in flipping through the channels I have seen her! Now that is Christian looking!!!! :)

          • choicelady says:

            Oh honey -- I do NOT watch that stuff. Those folks come prowling around my house, and that is QUITE enough, thank you!

            • SallyT says:

              I don’t watch her either, CL. She scares me! I can’t look at cotton candy without getting scared because of her! 😉

          • SueInCa says:

            That is the Crouch couple. Jan wants your grocery money especially if you are a little ole lady


            • choicelady says:

              She needs it for a neck job. So do I, but I’m not promising heaven or threatening hell to rob little old ladies for it.

            • SallyT says:

              I cannot see why we should expect an infinite God to do better in another world than he does in this.
              — Robert Green Ingersoll, “Reply To The Indianapolis Clergy” The Iconoclast, Indianapolis, Indiana (1882)

            • How come god has such a problem handling money? 😉 Master of the universe, but for some reason, just can’t handle money!

              HT/George Carlin

            • SallyT says:

              Yep, that’s the one! She is always crying, too! Why would anyone send them money?

    • SueInCa says:

      BFF

      You have it down pat. In my estimation they always project on others the thing they most stand for themselves. They call Prez Hitler but everything they do behind the scenes is reminiscent of Fascism. They abhor Sharia Law but sharia law by another name is ok. They are devious enough to try to drive a wedge between blacks and gays but the rest of us are ginning up racism. It all points to their utter lack of depth. They are anit-intellectual for a reason, secular humanists who admire intellectualism have given them the biggest headache they ever experienced. And an intellectually savvy nation will look beyond the surface of their bullshit causing kocharoaches to scatter when the light goes on.

  8. JMBrodie says:

    You know, it does not matter whether being gay or straight is a choice or not. It is no one’s business. That is what matters, and these Right-Wingers who feel emboldened to force their image of humanity on others are hypocrites of the highest order — no BIG government for them if it helps people but BIG goverment for all to dictate how people live their private lives.

    One day, we will get beyond such nonsense conversation and accept people as they are.

    • SallyT says:

      JM, this nonsense is weakens with each generation. The young see no color or the wrong in loving the one you love regardless. However, there are still those trying to convince them they are wrong in being so diversified. That is why they want to control public schools or have more home schooling. But, I have faith in the young. They marry regardless of color now (which was a big NO in my day) and they should marry regardless of the sex of the partner they love. There has been a lot of good parents out there, too, that have brought their children up seeing all with wide open eyes.

      • SueInCa says:

        Sally I agree. We were brought up that way, my parents never spoke ill of people because of the color of their skin and taught all of us to behave the same way. We just did not use racist terms in our house. I learned those on the street.

        • SallyT says:

          Sue, I wish I could say I wasn’t raised that way but I can’t. I grew up in the heart of it. Those racist terms were used around me. From Kindergarten to the 8th grade it was an all white class and no one of color went to the whole school. In High School there were very few there. They lived in one section of the city only and you never went there. Many of those I grew up with are still there and they are still narrow minded. But, I moved away and grew up in my late 20’s. I didn’t know if I had taught my children different but they soon started introducing me to their friends and I was so proud that they had grown up different. My grandchildren can’t even understand the stories of the past. And, I have gay friends and so do they. You can get away from it, but it is still out there. You can make a difference with those you love and those you love can teach you even more as they grow further away from it.

          • SueInCa says:

            Actually my Dad was from the south but he always said growing up poor he could understand how black people felt, to a degree. He and his brother were treated pretty badly by some of the people and he never forgot it. He said he vowed as a young boy back in the 30’s he would never treat a person as less than a person or an equal and I never heard him do so. My mom was brought up in NYC so she was a bit more exposed to diversity. My dad always liked to go back to NC after he settled in CA to look at all the hicks LOL

    • SueInCa says:

      JMBrodie

      To you and I and many others that is true. For gays who want equal rights, women who need abortions,people who want to serve in the armed forces w/o religious persecution/proselytizing it just does not happen. I hope like you that someday these things are no longer an issue but knowing what I do about these people it will never happen. So we have to fight them on every corner.

    • Nirek says:

      JM, I could not agree more!
      What anyone does is nobodies business (unless they are harming someone or breaking the law).

      You also hit the nail squarely on the head when you mentioned BIG government for them is only big government if they don’t agree with what is happening.

      I happen to think there is too much corruption in the government. I would like to see term limits also. The longer they are in office the more chance they will be corrupted.

      Those are some of my ideas. Here is a way to live and harm no one.

      Don’t like gays, don’t associate with them.
      Don’t like gay marriage, don’t get one.
      Don’t like abortion, don’t get one.
      Don’t like democrats, don’t be one.
      Don’t like republicans, don’t be one.
      Don’t like your rights, taken from you, don’t take others from them.
      Don’t like women, leave them alone and don’t try to run their lives.

      Feel free to add to the list.

      • SueInCa says:

        Nirek

        I like your list problem is while you are following those tenents the right is working behind the scenes to make sure at some point you cannot. I do have one to add to the list and it is mine

        Don’t like what the Republicans are doing behind the scenes? Shed sunlight all over them. Kocharoaches do not like light or sunshine.


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