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Comments Posted By choicelady

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I’ve been craptured.

Is THAT what happened to you! You were my very first “fanned” person – and when I went back to the list, you were gone. I thought YOU had removed yourself not liking what I had to say. I never dreamed you’d been BANNED. Your posts were superb in every way – thoughtful, deep, intelligent. I can’t believe you got zapped!

When I saw KQuark I realized it was you (or thought so) and then followed you here.

What IS going on over there? I find this deeply scary.

Well, I’m glad I found you again and even more glad you posted the link to the Planet. It’s really nice here! Thank you!

» Posted By choicelady On November 25, 2009 @ 8:39 am

Do not go gentle into that good night (well, on second thought…)

Thank you, escribacat for your amazing story. Mine is the precise opposite. In 1987-88 after several months of constant nausea and loss of weight while in the hands of buffoon doctors, my mother-in-law finally got decent care. My husband and I got her admitted to a wonderful hospital in upstate NY where she was quickly diagnosed with terminal cancer thanks to a fast and reasonably painless liver biopsy. The doc declined to do any more tests, asking what was the point of trying to determine the origin of her cancer and putting her through tests that would do nothing for her well being? Wow. When we went to the hospital, if we asked to see the doc or the resident – they CAME and told us all we needed to understand. She was sent home, we got hospice for her, and in the last two weeks she had round-the-clock care that took care of her – and of us. She died in her own bed, sweet smelling and comfortable from all the lotions, massages, and loving care she received. I will be forever grateful to the doctors and hospice nurses who gave my mother-in-law such attention and care. That hospital and all the people associated with our experience are the standard to which all medicine should aspire. It was not costly – it was quite reasonable since they minimized the testing and had no treatment of what was untreatable – combining good medical practice with humanity. We all deserve these outcomes. My mother-in-law did not rage against the dying of the light. She did not need to.

» Posted By choicelady On November 24, 2009 @ 11:11 am

Hi, I’m Rob-S, and I’m a Moderatorholic

Mine, too. They know. They always know! They can even tell the difference in which store I buy the regular stuff – one has more juice than the other (don’t know why). They make clear that I’ve let them down with the dryer ones. I CAN’T LIVE WITH THE GUILT!

» Posted By choicelady On November 23, 2009 @ 4:54 pm

Well, thank you escribacat – I’ve enjoyed yours, too!

» Posted By choicelady On November 23, 2009 @ 4:52 pm

Nobody welcomed me – but I did not expect that. Now that I know, I suppose I could feel slighted, but I’ve enjoyed these conversations enormously. I am sort of an odd one out not because I’m conservative (definitely not a troll!) but because my work puts me into the progressive faith community center, and I think that’s not comfy for everyone. I am actually quite radical with the full support of my organization and our members and my own conscience. But that ‘working for a faith group’ thingy is sometimes startling to people.

But the discussions are totally wonderful. I got here because of KQuark who knows me not but who was the first person I fanned on HuffPo and whose writings have always been most impressive. When I found that link in one of his HuffPo posts and saw what you were all writing and thinking, I loved it. I check in as often as work will allow, and I always learn something from someone. It’s a very fine place to exchange views. Thanks to all!

» Posted By choicelady On November 23, 2009 @ 3:51 pm

COMPANY MEMO RE: CHRISTMAS PARTY

I work for a non-profit. We’re too broke to have parties. That takes care of it very nicely! Happy holidays whatever they may be for you. In the meantime, happy Thanksgiving, however it suits you.

» Posted By choicelady On November 22, 2009 @ 8:22 pm

Destroying Religion: The Essential Task at Hand?

Hi Felonious – I imagine you’re right! No matter how much we, even those of us in the faith world, would LOVE to have a Guiding Hand, we are products of evolution, cells, and maybe microchips. The best part though is that all of coalesced into sentient beings that can reach beyond self. That “tickling other codes into action” is consciousness and thus morality. Or, in the case of C Street and their ilk, not.

We have choices, and we have the capacity to think beyond self for the greater good. God is probably that awareness of self and others – the transcendent moment when we connect for something that moves the species along in positive ways.

Reality can be small or huge. That’s also a choice we can make. I live better when it’s huge – when I know I share the code (or microchip or whatever) with others who deserve what I deserve. That Golden Rule thing is simply no more or less than that.

» Posted By choicelady On November 24, 2009 @ 2:21 pm

I think most of our member denominations (Protestant) have NO such lofty belief in their own moral superiority. Faith is a constant quest, a journey, not a destination. The one time I addressed a group using very evangelical language (thinking “Beam me out, Scotty!) it turned out the discussion was about advocating for GLBTQ equality! Oy!

Faith is, or should be, the process of expanding one’s horizons, learning to be inclusive, checking your prejudices, moving toward greater compassion for all people and their travails and pain. I’ve lost the thread of who said this above, but I do agree – and that’s where our members are. Faith as a quest. Life as a search for moral good for ALL people, not just one’s own, narrow self.

Churches, old and new, that pretend to have all the answers largely don’t even know the questions. It all comes from fear – we are lost in a world increasingly not in our control. Global capitalism strips so many of us of authority over our lives that it is NO surprise conservative religion comes in to fill that void. It offers certainty, even if that absolutism actually strips us of even more self-control. It’s security. And, from my observations, people who are “born again” do so because they NEED to be. Their own decisions have so often been bad that rules enhance their survival. For those of us who don’t need this, it seems so childish and wrong, but think how many people screw up their lives. Rigid religion is the safe harbor from themselves and an uncertain world. It’s really sad – until they start imposing their views on us. Then it’s another form of evil. Sigh.

» Posted By choicelady On November 23, 2009 @ 10:55 am

Kalima – I DID know that, and I was not surprised. C Street – the “Family” are the MOST pernicious people ever. You’re right about the majority of Catholic bishops NOT being behind his amendment.

» Posted By choicelady On November 22, 2009 @ 7:18 pm

He really articulated something extraordinary and beautiful. Yes. Imagine.

» Posted By choicelady On November 22, 2009 @ 7:12 pm

I hope NOT! But that is why contemporary faith is so much cooler – waaaay fewer thumping old guys with hammers. Old beliefs are largely tribal emerging from tribal societies where dog-eat-dog was essential. You needed a Big Guy (hammer or whatever) on your side. Moving along with scientific understanding to come to a belief in the oneness of the universe and everyone IN it, makes a much more hopeful view of life and its meanings. Every now and then, of course, having the Big Guy with the hammer on your side is appealing, but that would just mean there was someone else with a different Big Guy and Big Hammer. It’s exhausting. That’s the problem with Bush, The “Family”, and all the furiously aggressive conservatives – they’re still afraid to let Hammer Guy go. It bespeaks very little confidence in justice and goodness. Or much basic good sense, IMHO.

» Posted By choicelady On November 22, 2009 @ 7:10 pm

Bernard – we’re about evenly divided. What you see in the MSM is the vigorously hateful folks that make good news. It is just not all that interesting to cover people of faith NOT beating the whomp out of each other. News gravitates to extremism, but it’s been IN the news so long, they forget that ultra conservative crazies are actually the minority. Lakoff noted that it took them 20 years to get to Reagan and then another 28 to get to self-destruct mode. Sarah Palin’s witch-hunting mentor is part of a miniscule minority – but you’d think he was mainstream, wouldn’t you? You didn’t see much about the 500 interfaith clergy who were at Lieberman’s house in CT last Sunday pressing him to vote for cloture. It got a little play – but not BIG play like the witch hunter. Speakers for good (and Sen. L. DID vote their way!) just don’t get heard. But we’re here, and we ARE at least equal in numbers.

» Posted By choicelady On November 22, 2009 @ 7:04 pm

kesmarn – I love – LOVE – my job! But mostly I love the people with whom I work – their minds are totally open, and there are a kajillion of them. I travel my state training our members on how to speak out on often thorny issues, and they DO it. We speak truth to power and do so with the voice George Lakoff says is indispensible. “Moral values R us.” We don’t push religion on anyone – theology is not our concern – but we do come from our grounding in faith and morals that look to the common good. If you feel puzzled you don’t know us, it’s largely because the MSM think we’re boring. I once asked an editor of a major newspaper if he’d print stuff if I whomped Jerry Falwell across the chops, and he said, “It’d be a start.” Well – that’s not us. MSM like blood and divisiveness, and that’s what we’re trying to STOP. But we’re here, we’re outspoken where it counts, and we’re growing by the day. And we don’t want to save your immortal soul ’cause we’re not too clear about our own. We do believe in justice, and we do care about a harmonious, self-sufficient, inclusive society. So that’s what we work from and for. And BTW – C Street HATES us. Hah!

» Posted By choicelady On November 22, 2009 @ 6:57 pm

Whatsthatsound – that is very much what the progressive faiths are working to do. I deal daily with leaders from all major religions (and, since we represent Swedenborgians, some minor ones) that are trying to do precisely that. The issue Bernard raises about declaring one another heretics is really the province of the religious conservatives, not the progressives. Most of the “mainstream” churches today embrace knowledge and insights, practices and rituals from across the spectrum. A friend, a Methodist minister, once said to a large audience that if you think of us, then the world, then the solar system, then the galaxy, the the universe – it’s kinda hard to think God is a Methodist. Few clergy and laity today think they have the exclusive march on “truth”.

There are rock-ribbed believers everywhere. Just look at the tin-foil-hat folks…and the guys who built the H-bomb. Rigidity is not confined to religion. NO one would call Dick Cheney religious. But he is a true believer in the superiority and right to hegemony of the US corporate elite (i.e., himself), so…

» Posted By choicelady On November 22, 2009 @ 6:47 pm

I believe you are correct. Nice insight.

But I have one question. Bernard – what have you got against ancient Norse gods? You just never know when one might come in handy!

» Posted By choicelady On November 22, 2009 @ 6:42 pm

Essentially yes, but the church itself has to pay taxes on those activities NOT deemed in keeping with faith and charity. And even Catholic churches sometimes do – though it’s more likely to be evangelicals who cross that line. The problem with their using c-3 money for advocacy is that 5% of the Catholic Church’s money is a LOT of money. They and the Mormons did nothing illegal in opposing marriage equality on the ballot (non-partisan, under 5%) – but when we all call for them to be taxed, you automatically include the progressives in that sweep, and we have very LITTLE money. (Guilt generates a lot more income than justice advocacy. Always a tiny bit sorry we gave that up ages ago. “Vote for health care with a robust public option or you’re going to hell.” Has a nice ring to it. Too bad we don’t believe that. Sigh.)

So all I’m saying is that the laws DO exist, and the left and right pretty much do stay within the confines of what guides every non-profit. So don’t throw us out with the RWers! We’re your best allies!

» Posted By choicelady On November 22, 2009 @ 2:28 pm

KQuark – actually, the tax laws do what you recommend. Only those actions by a church or other faith/religious non-profits are exempt from taxes. Churches – even those Megaliths by the Freeway – have to pay tax on their “jazzercise” classes, etc. And like every other non-profit, they cannot indulge in partisan politics. They can, like every non-profit, engage in NON partisan activity up to 5% of their income, but after that, they’re supposed to create a NON-exempt separate advocacy organization or cease and desist from their advocacy actions.

You may not be surprised to learn that only the progressive denominations seem to adhere to that standard. But it IS the law, and with this administration, it’s being much more carefully enforced for all faith groups, not just against those of us who are radical/progressive. We are very careful not to endorse candidates, to use a c-4 advocacy structure for our OWN advocacy, and to obey those laws. And – we don’t even think we’re going to heaven because of it! Anyway, heaven and hell are most probably psychological experiences in one’s own life here on earth, not somewhere you go after death.

We always sigh when some rabid, drooling RW preacher trots out some freaking verse to prove how he is holy and we’re cursed. If you recall the HuffPo piece on conservatives cutting out all the liberal Bible passages (an amazing article) it just proved my own point that the RW won’t be happy until the reduce the Bible to something you could mail on a postcard. And all of it would be about homosexuality and the absolutely non-existent passages about abortion. Makes life very simple when you’re simple minded, yes?

So we continue the work of what is the time=honored social gospel. We have an obligation not just to care for the poor but to eradicate the need for that care. Justice goes waaay beyond charity (too many of us still stop there) to altering the world so charity is barely required.

But real faith does not discriminate, hate, point fingers, isolate, and remove responsibility just ’cause you sit in pews. It is an immersion in bringing about a transfored world through our own efforts so that no one – NO one – goes without or is excluded. That’s the work I do on behalf of 6.5 MILLION members who belong to the denominations we serve by providing education on issues and whom I mobilize to stand for that justice. We have both a c-3 (donations are tax deductible) and c-4 (they aren’t) to do this work. So we’re right there with you!

» Posted By choicelady On November 22, 2009 @ 1:55 pm

OK – I work for a large progressive faith advocacy group. Progressive Protestant denominations. What I find so frustrating today is the way in which the religious right has reduced religion AND faith to a bundle of rules – mostly applied to YOU, not to themselves. We have a saying that religion is for people who are afraid of hell. Faith is for those who’ve been there. But most of our members and allies do organize themselves into “religions” – Methodist, Episcopalian, UCC, etc. – more out of neighborhoods of like minds than theological disputes. There is a social nature to churches (or any other faith organization)but you won’t find our folks in hot debate over which end of the egg to open.

Faith is simply a sense that you’re not the center of the universe (nor probably is your little blue planet) but that you are one with the universe and therefore with all other people, no exceptions. Religions at their very best provide guiding insights into how to be and do your best by all humankind, nature, and the world. At their worst, back to the damned rule book.

What do we think of as God? Ummmm… Pretty sure it’s not an old, judgmental guy with a beard (OK – except on takeoff and landing at which point that’s precisely what I DO want, but that’s MY problem.) Human consciousness? Love? Empathy? Intelligence? Who knows? When Christians anyway give thanks to God, it’s because we lack the verbal acuity to express it another way. Sensing “another” is not even supersitition, it’s back to the belief that “God” is transcendent consciousness of the possibility of good. For Christians (I distinguish us from the Old Testamentarians of Pat Robertson and “The Family” stripe) Christ’s teachings are elusive, difficult, and push us eternally toward courage, boldness, total compassion, awareness of absolute equality among all people. If you want to know what most of us think and why, you’ve GOT to read “Lamb” by Christopher Moore. It’s bawdy, incredibly funny, and marvelously right – supposedly the “lost gospel” by Jesus’ boyhood chum, Biff. It’s a tale of growth, supreme devotion to good, and perfect love. It’s also an incredibly good read. And it’s amazingly good theology for faith progressives.

In my state, we are equal in number to the religious right – you just don’t know that because polls determine who’s “religious” by whether you go to church every Sunday. Yeah. Right. But who is faithful, questing, seeking, caring, loving, and putting social justice ahead of anything else – whole ‘nother ball game.

So – don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. We have had a huge impact on pushing the boundaries of justice on every major social issue including science matters. We’re not superstitious or stupid or bigoted or timid – we’re bold, we’re with you, we’re here, and we are worth knowing. Just don’t be looking for us on the 700 Club. We’ll be fighting for health care, GLBTQ equality, women’s rights, and every other good issue. See you on the barricades and everywhere else you turn up. Just don’t ask me to fly…

» Posted By choicelady On November 22, 2009 @ 11:58 am

Senate debates Health Care Bill

Both, thanks. The Senate bill that emerges from debate has to be moved to a vote and can be blocked. This will be the most dangerous moment. If that passes and goes to Conference and a new version comes out, it goes BACK to the Senate – and can be filibustered to prevent a final vote. Why the Senate permits this – it’s a rule, not a Constitutional mandate- is beyond me. Remember the Reeps on the “up or down vote”? That’s just for their issues…the right to filibuster should either be revived in full – you’re on stage 24/7 – or dropped. However, it exists, and we have to deal with it.

» Posted By choicelady On November 21, 2009 @ 7:16 pm

Nellie – I also do the nail-biting/deep sigh thing! Thank you for making me realize I’m not alone. I agree though – unlike our narcissitic “progressive” allies on “the other post” that real progress has been made indeed. But I surely do agree – it would be a LOT easier on the nerves if it could be less perilous! Why do RW things seem to ease by but progressive reform is agonizingly slow? Oh. Right. The RW are the people paid billions to screw up the world. We volunteer to fix it. That’s why.

» Posted By choicelady On November 21, 2009 @ 7:10 pm

Hi all – been out of touch much this week working the DC line to get this to this point. BUT, even though I’ve been talking to some Hill staffers, I’m not so sure this is a done deal. I fear the NEXT cloture vote to move it TO a vote – that’s where Lieberman et al. can screw us if this bill is actually good for people. For some reason, even some Dems don’t seem to think things that benefit people, that reflect our common humanity and responsibility for one another, are nearly so neat as things that make corporations rich. So – someone talk me down! I’ve been working on this daily for MONTHS, and I think I left many of my brain cells on a flight from east to west. Help!

» Posted By choicelady On November 21, 2009 @ 7:06 pm

Morning Blog – 12-30-09

Isn’t that like asking us to down about 20 doses of cod liver oil? At least the oil is GOOD for you! These are not! LOL!!!

» Posted By choicelady On November 25, 2009 @ 11:56 am

Wow javaz – your patience is awesome! I think you’ve shown us all a side of “perfect” people we should not forget. A good woman I know, and Evangelical, is highly critical of this sort of behavior in her peers. She says we have become a “low-sacrifice society” meaning it’s so damned much easier to point fingers at others than look at ourselves. This “good Catholic” is doing precisely that. Homosexuality and abortion are all about someone else – so the haters and judgmental types don’t have to look at their racism, hypocrisy, anger, or any other flaws. I saw a shirt on an anti-abortion protester once that said, “Intolerance is a beautiful thing”. How very smug!

That you can keep talking to her is amazing. Maybe, someday, she will see what a good and kind person you are. If she doesn’t, well, we have. Thank you for adding peace, not strife, to this world.

» Posted By choicelady On November 25, 2009 @ 11:55 am

Gosh Nicole473 – my Dad had it, too – for SIXTY years! He contracted it during WW II and got shipped home a few months before the war ended. He was the poster child for most every medication – the older ones seemed much better for him than the newer ones, but who can say? He lived a good life and died at age 89, so I have NO complaints, but I do know what you and your family are experiencing. You are in my heart. It’s hard to watch the one who was so vital succumb to this dreadful disease. I wish all of you a good process and am glad he’s had some improvement. Peace and family joy for Thanksgiving to you all.

» Posted By choicelady On November 25, 2009 @ 11:49 am

Political correctness, sexism, and the assault on civility

Hi- I actually not only DO all this but mobilize over 1.5 million (yes, in fact, honestly) progressive members of the faith community to do the same. I KNOW what a difference this makes, but I’m still so frustrated by the MSM and especially my secular progressive allies. I’m horrified by their snotty dismissal of Obama – it seems to me they reinforce the Right by this cavalier attitude. I’m on the board of a national organization against torture – and they are all hand wringing over Obama’s “failures” that are not failures at ALL. If the Left doesn’t grow up, I fear Schaffer will be correct – it’s actually very dangerous. I’m heartened by the intelligence revealed every day here, but except for Rachel and Keith I sure don’t see much good sense and judgment alive in this land. Scares the living daylights out of me!

» Posted By choicelady On November 18, 2009 @ 7:01 am

In part I’m responding to bitohistory on Frank Schaffer’s appearance and warning. The derision heaped on this president now has taken an open threat of calling for his death. Oh, it’s all wrapped up in Biblical verse. but it’s a direct call for his murder. And the right, wrapping itself in patriotism, uses its tarring of any of his or our actions as “political correctness” to show we are unAmerican and deserving of whatever comes our way. Schaffer’s observation is right – it’s whipping up the RW, especially those adhering to the C Street Family types who justify anything they do if they profess Christ – and all it takes is a few. It’s terrifying to me how many people who voted for Obama are also ready to boil him in oil because he is NOT a left-wing imperial president. With little overt support from those who worked the campaign (and then sat back for him to fix everything) and slavering screeching from the right with their various memes against Obama and anything progressive, I truly fear for this nation. What the HELL are we going to DO?

» Posted By choicelady On November 17, 2009 @ 7:00 pm

Your Satisfaction is our Greatest Annoyance

I’m delighted to read that employees are buying up papermills – it is my profound belief, supported by political economists such as Gar Alperovitz (“America Beyond Capitalism”) that this is the “third way” that makes the most sense. It’s clear we have to go beyond employee stock option plans where management is left in the hands of gormless bean counters who continue to ruin the businesses, but true employee ownership AND managment is the most profitable business going. Without management, you have United Airlines. With management – Southwest. Alperovitz argues well that this also, as you note, improves democracy since people live and work in their communities. However, my attempt some years back to help employees buy out a very good business about to be abandoned by KKR for no particular reason proved VERY difficult. The standards for purchase by employees were different from those that would have been put out for another corporation. Financing was horrible – junk bonds because the workers at the plant were considered a ‘bad risk’. These laws have to change NOW so that businesses can flourish in the hands of those who understand how to run them. America since Reagan has been only too willing to let our economy crash – just so long as we leave it to the rich and stupid to do so. This is my main concern – restoring sanity through employee ownership and management. Thanks KQuark for the info on papermills. Wonderful to know!

» Posted By choicelady On November 15, 2009 @ 11:27 pm

Personal responsibility: The moral argument against compassion

Oh thank you bitohistory! When I’m up against troglodyte legislators who say that being healthy is entirely YOUR responsibility so everyone MUST be compelled to carry insurance as you do for your car, there is the sure and certain implication that bad health is your “fault”. You ate Cheetos or something. Well, it’s something of a crap shoot, isn’t it? And yes, sooner or later, everyone is going to need a doctor or dentist or something, no matter how careful you are. When did we lose the idea that the best part of being human was sharing responsibility for one another in humane ways? How did we get the idea that we have to have zero-sum games: I win, you lose – on everything? We have always done best when we looked out for one another, and the zero-sum mentality brought us to the brink of calamity in the late 19th century and again now. When WILL we grow up?

» Posted By choicelady On November 12, 2009 @ 4:23 pm

Nellie – you are SO correct! We have to turn the tables. Grabamop is quite right (in the “correct” sense of that term) that people who espouse “personal responsibility” are the last ones to exercise it. That must be called out loudly. And if they are in a position to hurt people by making policies that do harm, they have to be shown up for the true hypocrites they are. Sen. Coburn now is holding up a bill to provide health care and stipends to injured vets and their families. He says he wants to know how it will be paid for. What a lying sack of poo! He could not care less about that – he just wants wounded vets to go away so he doesn’t have to look at them or give them any help at all. Rachel Maddow called him out on that, and we need to do the same with all those people.

» Posted By choicelady On November 12, 2009 @ 4:07 pm

As one who lobbies regularly for those whom the private sector has utterly abandoned, this comes up for me with conservative legislators all the time. Your frustration is shared, and I have developed some responses. We have a nationally shared value: families should be able to support themselves and their children. Problem – in the past 30 years, our national ethos has been “you’re on your own” (sucker) because we have all this opportunity, so if you’re poor, tough. But the reply MUST be: “We believe families should support themselves and their children. How DARE we make private and public policies that make that impossible!” Working with advocates for those in need, we’re always saying we must take care of “the vulnerable among us”. Problem there is the conservatives are more than willing to kick them under the bus. Better to say, “we must provide security and compensation as a legitimate nation to those whom the private sector has abandoned until we restore a nation that allows them to care for themselves wholly and humanely.” Shifting the responsibility to the policy makers, public or private, is essential. We see growing dependency, and it’s NOT an accident, and human beings are not just collateral damage of economic change. Find a library with a copy of the 1975 book, Crisis of Democracy published by the Trilateral Commission, authors Michael Crozier, Samuel Huntington, and Joji Watanabe – it’s the blueprint for doing away with unions, high pay, middle class existence, a free press, and yes, democracy. Personal responsibility? How? Of course we all have the obligation to do our best, but how can you pull yourself up by your bootstraps when they just cut off your damned FEET? Shift the call-out to those who make these policies. It’s not the poor who are irrestponsible. It’s the people who created the poverty.

» Posted By choicelady On November 12, 2009 @ 11:29 am