Well, get on your Obama Bashing and Tax Cutting 3D-Glasses (the hatred and greed will look like it’s coming right at you!), the new GOP Debate is here! Well, actually it’s on MSNBC tonight at 5:00 pm PDT/8:00 pm EDT. Can you feel the excitement? Or at least the rolling of eyes?
We’ll be live blogging on this thread during the debate, hope you’ll join us. In the mean time, please feel free to post comments about the GOP primary and any of the cast from this hit reality show, “Election – Arkham Asylum Edition”.
Now for a little pre-debate rundown of the top contenders:
Michele Bachmann is…er…choking. She’s…blowing it. After winning the Iowa Straw poll (I think the petting zoo put her over the top), she now looks like she’s bitten off more than she can chew (hope they don’t run out of the giant tub of Schadenfreude at Costco).
Her poll numbers plummeted after Perry entered the race, her top advisers have just bailed and from the crazier look in her eyes, her prescription of Zoloft must have run out. This should be the last gasp for her, there is another debate in a week or so but as this is the first debate with Perry as part of the Klan, if she doesn’t back him off of her Baggers tonight, she’s likely lost them for good.
So, I do expect her to come out Full Metal Straightjacket at Perry first then if he pushes back, look for the Crazy Eyes to start shooting lasers. In the end, I think she’s already lost the battle, no one has ever seen her as substantive enough to win the nom or the General Election. The MSM touted her before just to get excited about a manufactured horse race…and some in the GOP did to reflect how unhappy they were with Romney being the front runner.
Michele Bachmann must feel like Lincoln in the story she always tells about him, how George Washington shot him in the back while he was riding from Concord to warn the British.
As for Romney, I think we’ll see him stay on message to the point of being painful to watch, about his bonehead “jobs” plan and the economy, “By cutting taxes for the wealthy, corporations and on capital gains, our government will go bankrupt and when the Chinese repossess America, who do you think they’ll hire to train Chinese workers to run the country? Americans, that’s right! And that means jobs!”
Romney is the sneaky kid who tries to win dodgeball by hiding behind other kids. My bet is that he won’t take on Perry directly though he may by innuendo (“As the only Governor here who was a CEO…and not a last-minute ‘I’m jumping in the race now!’ dick…”) or restrained comment but his game is that of the coward, sit back and hope someone else does his dirty work for him or that Perry will trip himself up.
The flaw in Romney’s “Winning Through Cowardice” strategy is that, Baggers don’t care what their anointed ones say or do as long as they hate the black president, Democrats and anything that will help 99% of Americans. If Perry was to say, “Poor people should be ground up into kibble and fed to the poodles of the wealthy,” they would applaud wildly as the conveyor belt took them down to the grinder.
There is no gaffe that can harm Perry with the GOP base as long as he stays hateful. Romney’s “Cowards Way Out” to the nomination may be looked back on as being as wrong-headed as Giuliani in 2008 waiting until Florida to win a primary. And with Romney having a double jointed neck, he’ll be the only one able to simultaneously look backwards and ahead at the same time!
Yes, you, the older oddball with his hand up for the last hour, who are you?
Poor Ron Paul. He could be at the top of the polls and win caucuses and primaries but to the GOP and MSM, he will always be just another job for Ghostbusters. It’s like trying to get a 5 year old to look at the vase he broke, the MSM looks over here, over there, up and down but never sees poor old Ron Paul. He will have his supporters in the audience but neither the GOP nor the MSM will confirm any of the following three things:
1. The Tea Party is racist.
2. Tax cuts don’t create jobs.
3. Ron Paul exists.
Sorry Ron, it’s not us Dems doing this. In fact, here’s a tribute, from us to you:
Which brings us to the clown who will be performing in the center ring of this big top, Rick Perry. The Loon Ranger comes into his first national debate with a weak track record in debates. He seems to do okay if not sabotaged by someone ruthlessly presenting facts:
Fortunately, Politico is co-hosting the debate so Perry shouldn’t have to worry about too many facts flying around.
As mentioned above, Perry is now the front runner and IMO, untouchable in the primary, despite the horse race mentality of the MSM. Tea Party voters take pride in misquoting The Treasure of Sierra Madre, “Facts? We don’t need no stinkin’ facts!” The relationship between Perry and Baggers is like puppy love, it’s all about your heart (or the darkest chunk of coal that has replaced it), not about your head. They’ll love him if he does well, they’ll love him if he stumbles, they will always be there for him, come what may…unless he starts to act reasonable, then they’ll quickly run him over with a pickup truck. Ah, young extremist love!
As this is Perry’s first debate, he’s not great at thinking on his feet and as front runner, when the target’s not on Obama, it will be painted on him, I’d think Perry plays it lower key and just goes for the “I’m the guy you’d want to have a beer with…like that other Governor guy from Texas who ran for President…whatever happened with that?”.
He’ll likely stay on point as well, tax cuts and Obama-Bad! but I think he’ll try very hard to avoid any conflict or say anything that’s not rehearsed (he may have a good ol’ boy moment or two scripted and up his sleeve).
The rest of the candidates might as well get paid for their extra work and book their next gig on, “Titanic, Part 2”.
Lastly, the setting will no doubt lead to a GOP form of Tourette’s syndrome that will cause all the attendees to uncontrollably blurt out the word “Reagan” throughout the debate. Viewers should not be alarmed and are cautioned not to play a drinking game with that word because a plethora of alcohol poisoning cases occurred last time.
For those unfamiliar with Reagan Tourette’s, this insidious disease causes statements like these to be spoken, “I have to say that my hero on this and my role model was Ronald Reagan. I was just a young Reagan when I Reaganed for the first time. I remember Reaganing, ‘I’m really Reaganed, I get to Reagan Reagan and I’ll always Reagan this Reagan!”. It Reagan was the most Reagan in my entire Reagan.”
So, be all prepared for tonight’s GOP debate. Get your popcorn near the microwave, keep your computer close to the tv to join us live blogging and Tweeting and just so you don’t miss a moment, don’t forget to take a good Reagan before the debate begins!
How the poor and hungry are treated in Texas.
—-
Miracle or mirage – what’s the truth about Rick Perry’s Texas?
Governor Rick Perry’s ‘economic miracle’ could take him to the White House. But for many, his state is a land of hunger and poverty – even for some of those who have a job
• John Turner: So why are so many Texans going hungry?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/04/rick-perry-economic-mirage
—-
Great link and topic, Kalima!
Just goes to show what a liar the man is, and everything he said yesterday was pure fallacy and camping it up for votes from his ignorant “fans”.
Heh, didn’t I read that in MB this morning, Kalima!
Hello bito. It was in MB, but I think from the 1st Sept. I don’t include many articles about the U.S. because it might be “old” news for most of you, but I do include stuff like this when I find it.
Sorry I missed you all during this. My home computer is entirely corrupted so I could not respond to the corruption I was watching on TV. My lord those people are angry! The thing I noticed is how little they seem to like the America PEOPLE. Back when I was 25 many years ago, they were already calling Social Security a false promise. It’s still here and entirely fixable to ensure solvency for years to come. This administration has held the growth of Medicare to 4% after years of double digit increases. And it can be made vastly more efficient with cuts to the added-on privatization.
I do hope Perry gets it, but I think Romney might outlast him. Romney may be more problem for the president, but frankly he’s got a lousy track record on every single thing he has done.
Where Obama is weak was revealed last night in the MSNBC turn to the woman from HP (who was amazingly supportive of the president) in the ‘fact check’ (pinched from Politifact without attribution – how HP of her)who said that the ARRA stimulus had created between 1.2 and 4.0 MILLION full time equivalent JOBS.
Where is that information? Why is that NOT trumpeted to the skies? We’ve all seen the charts – red Bush job loss rates plummeting, blue Obama job loss rates declining – but it’s never in the MSM or talking points on anything but maybe MSNBC.
Obama needs a cheering section with the verve and energy we have not yet seen. Someone needs to champion all he’s done, and done well, for all of us.
Anyway – sorry to miss you. AdLib – AMAZING snarky photos of the participants! Loved them all!
You were missed Choicelady but you probably saved yourself some brain cells if it meant you watched less of the debate than we did.
I couldn’t agree more, Obama needs to campaign on the positives when he officially begins campaigning. We need to see a ton of ads about the millions of jobs he added and how he crunched Medicare spending down to a 4% increase, how people can’t be denied insurance due to pre-existing conditions or have lifetime limits, how he took down Bin Laden and helped bring down Gadaffi and much much more.
He truly has a lot of successes to run on and he should be on the offensive about them instead of on the defensive about jobs when the Repubs planned that to be his downfall. Outsmart them, build up his likeability and respect for his accomplishments and still fight for jobs programs, doable and visionary.
Man, are we going to have to take over his campaign for him or what? You can’t run on modesty if you want to be re-elected President, go bold, go big and let everyone know all you’ve done!
Fact-checking the Reagan Library debate
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2011/sep/07/fact-checking-reagan-library-debate/
Thanks for this, Khirad.
If it wasn’t for lying, the debate would have been 3 minutes long.
Obama: ‘Best Debate Ever’
http://www.borowitzreport.com/2011/09/08/obama-best-debate-ever/
Picking From The Field Of 9 GOP Candidates: A Hilarious Flowchart
http://front.moveon.org/picking-from-the-field-of-9-gop-candidates-a-hilarious-flowchart/#.Tmg5t2l3Frc.facebook
Thank, Khirad. I almost got green smoothie out my nose on that one! Too flippin’ funny. I see potential tee shirts……
😆 Hilarious.
My overall impression was that this debate has to make Obama sleep well tonight.
Perry solidified himself as THE Tea Party candidate. Romney pushed the Tea Party away and did not rise above Perry…getting nailed several times from several directions.
All the rest have dropped down out of consideration.
And the Tea Party are the driven primary voters so I will still lean towards Perry winning the nom. There’s nothing that Perry could do to alienate them and Santorum and Bachmann will fall away, with their support going to Perry.
I don’t think Romney can get above 50% of GOP primary voters overall. Hard truth is, some extremist Christians won’t vote for Romney because of his being a Mormon. Tea Baggers strongly dislike him. Romney may get a swath of older voters for saying he supports SS (though in details it will come out he wants it privatized which is destroying it) but I don’t think it will be enough.
The course so far looks good, Perry is the weakest GE candidate and I think he stays in a healthy lead.
The more Perry does to win the primary, poisons him in the GE.
And putting Perry up against Obama in a debate will be a dream come true for Obama.
I am actually pleased after this lie and delusion filled debate.I don’t see a legit threat to Obama’s re-election.
And transposing this debate with Obama’s speech tomorrow will elevate Obama dramatically, IMO. The minor league loonies vs. the smart, confident and concerned President who offers a concrete jobs plan.
Now I am going to put my brain in the shower for an hour…
You’ve earned it, Adlib. Well said.
Thanks Escribacat!
I think the opposite. Perry is making Romney look sane. I go back to my original prediction that Romney wins the nomination based on being more electable. Mostly because Romney is the most unscathed GOP candidate by the corporate media since Perry will get all the flack since they are powned by the GOP establishment. Romney will get a huge boost in the GE because of Perry’s batshitcrazyness and Obama will have to fight for his life because he’s getting flak from all sides now greens, unions, MSM, Latinos, and of course the right wing attack machine.
Here’s the question, who are the primary voters? People who want a more reasonable candidate or people who want a hard RW aggressive candidate?
Here’s a WaPo poll released today which shows Repub voters think Perry is stronger than Romney in a GE:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/rick-perry-moves-ahead-of-mitt-romney-in-race-for-gop-nomination-in-new-poll/2011/09/06/gIQA5HUS7J_story_1.html
Don’t forget that Sharron Angle, Rand Paul and Christine O’Donnell won their primaries because they were Tea Partiers.
The Bagger base prefers crazy extremists over less crazy corporatists. And most Baggers can’t stand Romney.
I’ll bet you a virtual buck, I think Perry maintains his lead over Romney.
They are the same primary voters in 2008 that nominated moderate McCain. Remember the GOP voters are not the off year wild eyed Tea Baggers they voted in 2010. These primaries will have more moderate Republicans voting in states like CA, NY, FL, PA, IL, OH, etc… Huckabee had a regional following and so could Perry win huge in the South and still lose the nomination. I know the schedule helps Perry but remember even McCain won SC against Huckabee. I’m going back the fix is in on the GOP nomination. Add the GOP has some remorse with the Tea Baggers as well with their numbers dropping even in the GOP. I know Perry gets the base going but there are still more moderate Republicans out there that did not show up for the Tea Bagger frenzy in 2010.
My main exhibits that the 2012 Republican Party is not the same as the the 2008 party are the extremist House policies and the recent polls putting Perry well ahead of Romney.
If this was the same party as it was in 2008, I would suggest that Romney would have to be ahead because Perry would be seen as too extreme.
And the proposition that the GOP is not the same thing as the Tea Party is food for thought. I think the Tea Party IS the GOP, the “brains” and leadership of it.
Thoughtful Republicans have left the GOP in droves, if the party is now made up mostly of Baggers and followers, where the Baggers lead, many will follow and my proposition is that they will represent a majority.
Granted, this is all hypothetical, you could very well be right. However, I think there is a preponderance of polls and actions by the GOP which reflect a more extremist sensibility which would be more consistent with a Perry than with a Romney as their representative.
I am looking forward to seeing the post-debate polls, those should be pretty telling about whether Perry’s extremist statements in the debate changed things one way or another.
I guess we’ll know something by looking at the GOP turnout in early states. If it’s high I think that favors Romney if it’s low Perry is unstoppable, I agree. We might have to even drill down deeper and see which primaries are open and closed which could mean independents would come out and vote against Perry. I think Perry doubling down on trashing SS was a major blunder and could kill his chances in the biggest state he needs, FL.
Agreed, I think a lower turnout will be more helpful to Perry.
Consider too, Romney may have support but it is not enthusiastic. I don’t see Romney supporters getting whipped up as Perry voters would be to turn out, I think that will be another Perry advantage.
And having seen the Tea Party already spinning Perry’s “Ponzi scheme” statement, I don’t think it will harm him at all.
All Perry has to do in the next debate is say that he has a plan to save SS by changing it, that’s likely true, privatization and for the GOP primary, no impact in FL or difference between he and Romney in the end, in rhetoric only…which I think will help Perry in the primary and hammer him in the GE.
Very good point about open primaries. Also, seeing which states share delegates and which go solely to the winner will help in figuring things out.
After you posted the primary schedule, KQ, that convinced me that Perry was the likely winner. His SS/Ponzi stance may damage him especially if the Romney camp takes advantage of it, which they started to immediately after the debate in the ‘spin room.’
Possible but I would propose that this may be projecting reason upon people who don’t use it to make decisions.
My thought is that those who support Perry do so out of general ideology and I think his distrust of government, reflected in his attack on SS, only strengthens support for him.
I mentioned below, the Repubs who are on Medicare support the killing of it through the Ryan Plan, why wouldn’t those same people support Perry for “fixing” SS?
Some of the talking heads have been saying that Romney’s attack on SS was a problem for him in the Repub primary, all who did happen to be in the Karl Rove camp and not the Tea Party camp.
I don’t think it’s accurate but the next set of polls may shed some light on this.
If Romney doesn’t cinch this by New Hampshire, he’s in trouble with South Carolina on the horizon. His decision to not play in Iowa was a tactical error. One should always try to at least place decently.
But, I still think Perry, while sucking the oxygen from Bachmann and taking whatever little support Santorum ever had (who has his own “Catholic problem”, like the “Mormon problem” let’s be honest), he could still flame out. It’s too early to tell, IMO.
As of right now, it looks like Perry wins 3 out of the first 4, IA, NV and SC with Romney winning in NH.
My question is, how does Perry flame out with Baggers, who are the power behind the primary and how do they embrace Romney who they still strongly oppose?
Perry is everything they want, Romney isn’t.
Not to say this isn’t possible but I would bet on their staying locked into Perry’s camp whatever may come.
How do you figure Nevada. I think Romney could compete there. Business plus Mormons.
I know, it gave us Sharron Angle, but still, I’d factor in those things.
I’ve seen Palin flame out, Trump flame out, and now Bachmann, only that’s arguably because Perry siphoned off her support.
How do we know there isn’t yet another in succession somewhere? Probably not, but in any case, while the baggers drive a lot, the establishment Rove wing still has a whole lot of skin in the game too.
We’ll see if Rove & Co. can sink another candidate. This time he doesn’t even need to use dirty tricks, but Republicans know better how to sink another Republican better than any Democrat does.
Yes, I think Sharron Angle’s beating conventional Repubs signaled a sea change in NV.
You make good points, Romney could be competitive there and even win but right now I would give the edge in primary turnout to the most motivated part of the GOP base and that is the Baggers.
Though there is a strong Mormon community and business community in NV, the GOP primary voters there proved to be among the most extreme in the US.
Based on the most recent results there, I’m thinking Perry wins the Angle crowd which could be the majority of NV primary voters.
I’m not as confident about it as I am about SC and IA though, those two I would put strongly in the Perry column with NV a “likely”.
Adlib
They have become extreme. When I lived there just four years ago, it was less extreme. Most were Bush Republicans until 2008 when they all of a sudden did not know him or claimed the crash was not a fault of his policies. The people I know there now have changed dramatically. The semi moderates I knew there have almost turned rabid, definitely teapers and loyal fox watchers. They hate Obama and now voice their hate for Clinton as well. They think the hippies of the 60’s are now running DC. An example of a voter I thought fairly smart. She said she was voting for Guiliani in 2008. I asked her what about his platform made her choose him. She said and I am not lying, “the way he handled 9/11”. That was her single reason for voting for Guiliani. I think a lot of teapers do that, they zero in on one quality and that is their basis for deciding who to vote for while turning a blind eye to everything else. I think NV will go for Perry. Romney will get the mormon vote and some of the business community, Perry takes the rest.
****I accidently hit something and the commen box went big. I kind of liked it.
Sue – I give your experience there a lot of weight. The issue of single issue voters, especially when regarding the GOP seems key. If they have one issue to embrace, they can’t necessarily be shaken from their candidate because of another issue
Certainly, if Obama was to come out against SS as a “ponzi scheme”, we would back away from him but projecting our reason onto Republicans is, I think, a mistake.
There are many unemployed Repubs who strongly support the Repubs…even though they want to take away their unemployment insurance.
So, to predict GOP outcomes, I would suggest that one has to think counter-intuitively.
I think that right wingers who find a reason to embrace Perry will not be turned off of him by anything else he does as long as that key reason exists.
I already saw Tea Party people on the news rationalizing away what Perry said as wanting to fix SS. That is how they operate, they never hear anything that doesn’t support their candidate.
That’s what I think will be proven out in the next round of polls and in Perry likely winning the nom.
Put simply, Republican voters only hear what they want to hear when “their” candidate speaks.
Look at Palin and Bachmann, both are ignorant about history and government, both lie compulsively…and yet their approval ratings in the GOP are very high.
I know it’s hard for people of reason to believe that other people bury themselves so deep in denial and act so ignorantly but that does seem to be the hallmark of the average GOP voter in this era.
FL is the deciding state between Perry and Romney. How are seniors in FL going to go along with Perry calling SS a pyramid scheme?
Well, they elected Marco Rubio who opposes SS and Medicare as entitlements.
I think you may be underestimating the power of the Baggers in the primary. They and their followers may represent a majority in many states, out-voting the seniors who aren’t baggers and fear Perry (some seniors will vote against their best interests, they are Republicans).
I don’t think Rubio won his Senate seat mentioning his opposition to SS and Medicare, did he? Like some of the other T-people they brought it up AFTER they were elected.
Gotta’ sleep…must repair gray matter…must not have nightmares!
Good night all! I enjoyed it!
Man O Man I am a bit heartbroken. I missed the whole thing. Boo Hooo How will I ever recover?
Patsy, you just saved 10 million brain cells and 20 IQ points.
I hope you and everyone is over the scare/trauma of today. Glad everyone is safe.
Oh good, I am going to need those brain cells and IQ points.
I caught a few minutes of the build up on MSNBC
Could the talking head team get any more giddy?
What a hype machine.
You saved yourself a headache, Patsy. Mine hasn’t gone away yet.
Five takeaways from the Reagan Library debate
from the Reid report
I like Joy and she does a great job, but I think the Planeteers did fantastic!
http://blog.reidreport.com/2011/09/five-takeaways-from-the-reagan-library-debate/
Good nite all, tomorrow night the adults take over.
Good night, sweet lady! It’s always so nice to talk with you! Sleep well! 🙂
Nite Sue.
On Michelle Batshitcrazy’s min wage comment, apparently she does not read that bible she claims to go by……………..
The 9th Psalm verses 17-18 says:
The wicked bought a one way ticket to hell. For the needy shall not always be forgotten, nor the hope of the poor perish forever.
One more question for anyone hanging around…what did you all think of the questions?
I though the questions were quite good actually. I need to check some RW sites. Wanna bet they feel they were unfair–damn librul MSM.
I would generally agree. I don’t remember hearing any real softball questions. Brian Williams really started out giving Perry a pretty hard time.
William opened with a bang on Perry. I thought most of the questions I heard were quite good. Having Telemundo there was a good call.
I thought the questions on the plight of the poor were appropriate, Em. And the rest were better than those really silly ones that (was it FOX?) put forth on the last debate. (Remember those “boxers-or-briefs” ones?)
Hi Kes! I didn’t watch the last one…just couldn’t bring myself to put myself through that. I have to admit that tonight was a little more entertaining than I expected. I did hear about the “boxers-or-briefs” though!
You have the most kind heart, kes! I would have guessed that those questions would be important to you! Always thinking about those less fortunate! 🙂 That’s what we love about you!
On the minimum wage, it is hard to believe that these people could be so hard-hearted! How cold!
Hope you’ll be around for the President’s speech tomorrow night! If so, I’ll see you then!
Ha, Em, the family might debate you on that “kind-hearted” assessment, but I thank you regardless.
I’m scheduled for 3-11 today, so it’s not looking too good for me to catch the Prez’s speech. (Cross your fingers that maybe I get on-call?) I’ll have to catch up here when I get home.
And yes, on the minimum wage: if these people were actually capable of doing the math, they’d figure out that a minimum wage job pays about $290/week gross! Most of those candidates make more than that in an hour. They’re utterly out of touch with reality.
In so many ways. 👿
On President Obama:
“You are a remarkable leader,” in a private note to the President, with “remarkable” underlined
John Huntsman
Now – “We need a president to provide a little bit of leadership in getting some direction and opening up the opportunities.”
You are right Sabreen
Thus my lone pet theory he’s a plant. 😉
Khirad
By which side? Dems, Reps or Rove and Co.
Are we going to be able to blog tomorrow night when President Obama gives his speech? I’m all for that. I like the exchange of ideas.
We will have one up Em!
Great, bito! Is the time going to be 9pm eastern?
From my email Em:
Oh thank you, bito! You are most accommodating! Sorry I have not checked my email tonight. What ever would we do around here without you? 🙂
The GOP Debate
http://www.barackobama.com/gopdebatewatch
Obama’s ready for them. And boy are they giving him fuel for the fire.
I can’t wait for tomorrow night! This is going to be great!
The point was made by one of the talking heads that out of all those people up there on the stage, there was not ONE idea to create jobs…just the same tired old talking points. I surely didn’t hear anything new.
Me neither Em. I think tomorrow will be a clear contrast.
That is excellent, Sabreen. Well organized.
From that spreadsheet – Bachmann
On Wages:
“Literally, if we took away the minimum wage… we could potentially virtually wipe out unemployment completely because we would be able to offer jobs at whatever level.” *
Sure batshitcrazy woman, offer jobs at 1.65 and hour. I made that in highschool over 40 years ago.
And don’t forget…taking away minimum wage would help the poor! I can’t remember which one said it, but Ron Paul agreed. Yep, I can see how well that’s going to work!
Sue, that is the quote that caught my eye! 🙂 A buck sixty-five! I made it up to 2.10, but then I had to slice all the onions at the drive in! Hey CarHop!
It’s a bit like the “Texas Miracle” where they have the second highest rate of people going hungry. Hey they got jobs!
http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/09/hunger-in-texas-increases-late.html
Bito I did too and 4.00 if I worked on the weekends as a cook. I lived off my tips.
HA! “potentially virtually?” I swear Bachman and Palin are sisters! Sisters of the Ya Ya Morons! 😉
Thank you for posting this Sabreen!