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AdLib On June - 4 - 2014


Kevin Jordan, a police officer in Georgia and ex-Marine, who was working a second job as a security guard, was trying to arrest a drunken woman in the parking lot of a Waffle House. The woman’s boyfriend who doubtless had been drinking with her, shot the officer/security guard five times in the back and killed him. The boyfriend was then shot and wounded by Jordan’s brother who was with Jordan at the time.

By all that seems apparent, Kevin Jordan was “A Good Guy With a Gun”. He was murdered and the “Bad Guy With A Gun” is alive.

The myth that the NRA has successfully perpetrated on the public is such a simplistic and frankly, dumb assertion that flies completely in the face of reality…but those passionate about guns and paranoid about them being taken away instantly clung to it like a life preserver in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun.”

Complete bullshit.

Why? Because it is an inescapable fact that when everyone has a gun, the instigator of violence is always “a bad guy with a gun” and it is usually too late for good guys with guns to prevent a shooting.

The completion of this circle of lunacy is that the Right Wing gun nuts also say there is no use in gun control legislation because mass murders and killings will happen anyway, with knives if not with guns.

How many mass killings with knives have you ever heard of? And that aside, might the odds be better of people escaping a guy with a knife instead of a guy with a gun?

The Right Wing somehow can make sense of these conflicting messages, that we should have everyone armed because only good guys with guns can stop bad guys with guns from killing AND even good guys with guns can’t stop mass murders because they’re going to happen anyway.

No they”re not. Other democracies with gun control laws don’t have the amount of mass murders and frequency of killings that the U.S. has (“We’re number 1!”). In fact, The American Journal of Medicine did a study that shows that greater gun ownership leads to greater danger for innocent people.

So it’s just a flat out, bald faced lie by the NRA (“I’m shocked to hear that there’s lying going on in the NRA!” “Here are your campaign contributions, Senator.”) who are de facto pushing the murders of innocent people on America because Americans killing Americans is a profitable venture for their gun manufacturer backers. They are the true Death Lobby and they directly support the killings of innocent people through their actions.

Bad guys with guns are always on offense and can kill anyone at any time. Good guys with guns are necessarily on defense and rarely in the vicinity of bad guys with guns…and they could only act AFTER the bad guy has pulled out his gun and shot someone. So no, they don’t stop the bad guy from killing.

This is an era of unchecked extremes. Aggressive and open racism, shutting down government to extort political gains, taking the right to vote away, taking the rights of women to control their own bodies away, clamoring for an overthrow of the U.S. government, demonizing the poor and trying to leave them without medical help, a place to live and food to eat, and of course, rabid gun proliferation and making murder of innocent people legal through “Stand Your Ground” laws.

This extremism has to be stopped and the lies from those who are pushing to make extremism mainstream have to be exposed and destroyed. So what needs to be shot down is the “good guy with a gun” myth (along with people claiming to be Pro-Life while supporting gun policies that kill children and adults).

Maybe, the only thing that stops bad guys with destructive agendas, are good guys with constructive agendas.


Written by AdLib

My motto is, "It is better to have blogged and lost hours of your day, than never to have blogged at all."

58 Responses so far.

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  1. pinkpantheroz says:

    I’ve already posted this in Kalima’s marvellous Morning Blog, but I feel it needs repeating here in this thread:
    “The situation in Australia is very restrictive on gun ownership. Note I say ownership as opposed to gun control.

    In Australia, only LICENCED gunowners may lawfully acquire, possess or transfer a firearm or ammunition.
    Applicants for a gun owners licence are required to prove a genuine reason to possess a firearm, for example, hunting, target shooting, collection, pest control and narrow occupational uses. The biggest point of all, IMO, is that

    Here is the link to this information:


    Maybe something can begin from this rather commonsensical beginning.”

    I also agree where someone wrote that ‘Guns don’t kill people, bullets do!” So why not severely restrict access to bullets. The Second Amendment doesn’t mention ammo! Firearms without ammunition are expensive knuckledusters!

  2. JumpingJackFlash says:

    If good guys with guns don’t stop bad guys with guns, why do people call the Police when there’s a problem?

    • AdLib says:

      The reason the police are notified when a child is missing is because they’ve got guns? Or the reason a rape victim goes to the police is because they have guns? Police are only contacted because they are good guys with guns?

      You know that law enforcement is not purely about shooting people or carrying guns…surely you could list many things for which police are relied on that has nothing to do with shooting guns. Happy to debate gun control with you but just dropping provocative comments like this which you have to know are more to stir reactions than to genuinely discuss an issue doesn’t reflect an interest in really debating this very debatable issue.

      Let me toss this out instead, with respect to the article above, doesn’t it demonstrate how the Stand Your Ground law is anti-police and thus anti-good-guys-with-guns? And all states with SYG laws have had increases in gun murders so doesn’t that make people less safe, if there are more murders and anyone can feel free to shoot anyone else if they merely feel threatened by them?

      What do you think?

    • S-Man says:

      More people being armed is not the answer.

    • Kalima says:

      Do you think it’s because it’s their job to protect the public?

      • Mojave Green says:

        Sorry to burst your balloon, but numerous Supreme Court and other Federal and State courts have ruled repeatedly that the police have no duty to ‘protect’ you, or any individual. There’s lots of information with the specifics if you’re interested in details, but it’s not an issue even up for debate, in case you think I’m arguing with you. I’m not, and it’s an assumption that you should rid yourself of, since out here in the world beyond the borders of the U.S. the reality is that the U.S. is not in danger of becoming a Police State, it’s already one, and only becoming more so, and more rapidly every day. I’m a born and raised gringo, but haven’t been in the States in more than a decade, and my country of birth looks very different from out here in the real world. Pura vida.

        • Kalima says:

          I’m not American and live a long way outside the U.S. borders, so where I live owning firearms is illegal, and the police certainly are there to protect the public.

          My “balloon” as you called it, doesn’t exist, and I share your views on the lack of stricter gun control but stop short of calling it a “police state”. You have more freedoms than too many countries around the globe, it’s about time that Americans realised it. You would know if you had one. Ask the Iranians, the Egyptians, the Saudis, the people of Turkey and Burma, or closer to home Venezuela ,Russia and Belarus. How about Pakistan and most of the rest of the stans, and now Thailand. No, America is not a police state and it’s many of your politicians who are the crooks and thieves and the evil.

          Welcome to The Planet.

          Btw, my comment was tongue-in-cheek.

    • funksands says:

      I would call them because they are my city’s legal crime-prevention and response unit.

  3. monicaangela says:

    I continue to wonder how long the citizens of this nation will wait before they actually demand congressional action. We can as citizens of this nation do something about this, if we demand action. Maybe we won’t stop every case, but with laws that restrict ownership by those who should not be owners, with better mental health provision and with better record keeping, much of this insanity can be better controlled if not completely eliminated.

    • funksands says:

      Monica, my sad theory about the nature of Americans is that we shine when things break. Until they are broken we seem not to care very much.

    • Nirek says:

      Kalima, now the guy who was shot had a gun but didn’t know the woman was armed and she shot the “good guy with the gun”.
      More proof that the NRA is wrong.

  4. Nirek says:

    Another shooting in Vegas two cops killed by “white supremacists” husband and wife! They killed themselves later.


  5. SearingTruth says:

    “An ocean of bullets.

    They had to wash up somewhere.”

    A Future of the Brave

  6. Shutzy62 says:

    Back in the day the NRA was like “Ducks Unlimited”! It was primarily for those who loved to go duck or deer hunting and loved the outdoors. What is has morphed into today is scary — unrecognizable — kinda like the GOP and it’s scary offspring, the GOTP! If it were up to me, I would get rid of the 2nd Amendment altogether. It was clearly written in a time that made sense at that time — not now. But, like it has been pointed out here, we have so many guns in this country that we now need to reign things in and pass some reasonable and sensible gun laws.

    • Nirek says:

      So true, the NRA used to represent gun safety. They even taught people to use guns properly. Now like you said they encourage people to buy more guns and ammo. Lunacy!

  7. Knockemstiff says:

    I own more guns than I can count, I am a collector, investor and gun aficionado so to speak. Many of my friends collect guns as I do. I am a white collar small business owner with an MBA. Most of my friends are professionals, attorneys, doctors and small business owners. I do not belong to the NRA and neither do any of my friends. It is not that I dislike the NRA necessarily, I just don’t belong. All that being said the NRA does not influence me to purchase or not purchase guns and I suspect that is the case with many other gun owners. To somehow think that doing away with the NRA will solve some problem is really quite laughable to me. The collective strength of gun owners and their passion to own weapons is much stronger than any organization.

    • twopennygal says:

      As you so clearly demonstrate, the NRA is not controlled by gun owners. It is controlled by gun makers. If there are reasonable gun controls, then certain people will not be able to buy guns or will think it’s too much trouble to qualify to own a gun. Instead, the gun makers want everyone to be able to buy a gun (they’d probably be happy if children could buy guns) to increase their corporate profits.

    • AdLib says:

      Hey knockemstiff, even out of those gun owners who are members of the NRA, 74% support background checks and a majority support it her reasonable gun control laws..

      It’s not gun owners who wanted or pressed for SYG and other insane, murder-causing policies of the NRA and ALEX, it’s purely the greed of gun manufacturers and they need to be pushed intro the spotlight and stopped.

      We have a number of members here who are responsible gun owners but want sensible restrictions to reduce murders of innocent people by gun violence. Hard to have an issue with that.

    • Nirek says:

      Knockemstiff, my problem is not with folks like you. The NRA is against any regulation. The criminals who can buy a gun (especially an auto or semi-auto) either at a gun show or a personal sale without a background check is the problem. The existing laws have too many loopholes.

      That is why many of us are against the NRA.

  8. Dimbulb2 says:

    It appears that SPU won the mass shooting of the day lottery
    and, like tucson, the shooter was taken down while reloading

    yet the 2nd amendment crowd will continue to fight against limited clip size
    and expanded background checks to try to keep these things out of the hands of lunatics

  9. kesmarn says:

    AdLib, recently I saw a comment that seemed so fitting for what you’ve written here. One of those comments that seem so simple once you’ve heard it that you wonder why you didn’t think of it yourself.

    The comment was: If good guys with guns can stop bad guys with guns, how did Jim Brady and Ronald Reagan get shot? They were surrounded by Secret Service people and still it happened.

    You’re so right. Bad guys are always on offense. When the bad guy gets to choose the time, the place, the method and the angle of an attack, good guys don’t have much control. I think that’s one of the most powerful delusions that NRA people have.

    That when they’re armed, they’re in control.

  10. SearingTruth says:

    “Our well regulated militia is killing our children, at will.”

    A Future of the Brave

  11. limathree says:

    everyone is a good guy with a gun — until they aren’t.

    registration of a gun and licensing for a person needs to occur. licensing would require proof that you have passed a class. the class would include safety, proficiency and knowledge of the latest laws/regulations (local and national). CE classes should be mandatory. licensing should be renewed periodically. Much like a vehicle, except more onerous.

    you would not be able to buy ammo or accessories w/o your registration and then only for that weapon registered.

    registration and licensing fees would only be high enough to cover the administrative and overhead costs -- no profit. part of those fees should be for the establishment and maintenance of a national mental health data base.

    if you can’t afford these fees, then maybe you could start cutting back on your living expenses. lets start with your membership to the NRA.

    • TParrish says:

      While reading your post I was reminded of discussions I have had with former military personnel who were stationed in Germany. What they had to say about the German gun laws sounded very much like what you proposed.

      Have a look:

      Oh, I absolutely agree with your point about “good guys with guns”. On HP I ticked off many a right-wing raider by pointing out that most mass shooters would have been described by the NRA as good guys with guns *the day before they committed their mass shootings*.

  12. Can the evil genie actually be put back in the bottle? I think that’s the larger problem, besides getting real common sense legislation passed. There are as many guns in this country now as there are citizens. How do we get those off the streets?

    I would outlaw all semi-automatics. I would make the sentences for being caught with one very severe. In Mass, it is an automatic 1 year in prison for being convicted of owning or carrying an unlicensed handgun. I would enact similar laws regarding semi-autos of any sort.

    Nobody needs an AR15 or AK for home defense. A good, reliable revolver or pump shotgun will do just fine. Hunters do not need AR15s or AKs to down their prey. A bolt action rifle or double barrel shotgun works just fine.

    Of course these assault rifle and pistol whackos think they’re going to overthrow the most powerful military in the world with small arms fire. They also think that “when the revolution comes,” half the armed forces will desert their post and join in to wage war against their own Commander-In-Chief.

    We need to kick the NRA lobbyists out of the Capital and regain our sanity in regards to responsible gun ownership. Those in Congress that take NRA money are criminals, plain and simple, regardless of the loopholes in laws that protect them. They are moral cowards.

    • Shutzy62 says:

      I very much agree with your assessment. Especially the part about the “militia” groups at the ready to take on the government by force. It is ludicrous. And, I for one, am NOT comfortable with people who insist on open carry. I’ll take my chances eating at a restaurant that is gun-free — thank you very much!

  13. Dimbulb2 says:

    I am a firm supporter of the 2nd amendment……

    I believe that any member of a well regulated militia has the right to own a musket

    • Mojave Green says:

      I’m an even firmer supporter of the First Amendment. And believe that anyone and everyone should be able to own a quill and a moderate sized bottle of ink. And no ‘high capacity’ quills either! Only ones from smallish birds are all anyone could possibly need.

    • kesmarn says:

      And all the nerf balls he can fit into it! 😉

  14. funksands says:

    Ad, the good news is that once a state passes a law mandating that good guys wear white hats and bad guys wear black ones, all of this will be a thing of the past.

  15. Ponyjohn says:

    Good guys don’t want guns. Guns are for death.

  16. pinkpantheroz says:

    What an insane, terrifying scenario. You’re in a shopping mall in Texas and some Good Guy senses that a crime is about to occur, or is in progress. He then shoots the alleged perp. Other Good guys, seeing him open fire first, promptly blast away at the other Good Guy and kill him. So who are the Good guys and who are the Bad guys??

    This obscenity has got to be reined in. SYG should never have passed. The police are who should be defending us, not Joe Sixpack with an AK47. One day someone will have to move to alter or repeal the 2nd Amendment. This ‘right to bear arms’ is all bullshit, IMO. It’s not a right in other countries, but a privilege which carries huge obligations and responsibilities and is rigorously controlled.

    Hey, Bill and Melinda, Mark Z, how about using some of your incredible wealth to counter the NRA and MIC and teach the opposite to what propaganda they spew.

    • AdLib says:

      PPO, it is insane. The SYG laws in so many states are literally a license to kill and murders are going up. Is that the sign of an improving society to Republicans?

      The 2nd Amendment doesn’t even need to be amended. All that has to happen is for a somewhat sane SCOTUS to properly interpret the 2nd Amendment.

      A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

      How can any halfway intelligent person not recognize that the qualifier for “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed” is, “A well regulated Militia”?

      That does not reflect an intention by The Founders for Stand Your Ground laws or have “unregulated” gun ownership.

      • Mojave Green says:

        You seem not to have read much beyond the wording of the amendments, without bothering to read what they meant by ‘militia’, which they made clear many times and by different people. The ‘militia’ they referred to was all adult males. And that was it. And their meaning of ‘arms’ was whatever the military infantry used, if you want to rationalize like the “OK, you can own a musket” crowd.

        • AdLib says:

          Mojave, starting off a reply by accusing those you agree with as being less informed than you actually undercuts the legitimacy of your own opinion. Those who are better informed actually reflect it by proving what they say with convincing evidence.

          Please provide links to objective articles that prove your questionable assertion that The Founders were so inarticulate, they had to use the word “militia” when they really meant “adult men” (what prevented them from saying what they meant in this one instance?) and that they were incapable of saying “whatever the military infantry used” so they said “arms”.

          What fascinates me is how those who want a particular reality about the Constitution to be true, have to create convoluted justifications for the drafting of it matching their contemporary views identically.

          And the lack of context. The Founders had a vision of an America where guys with assault weapons would storm into a Chilis and terrify the patrons? That’s the America they dreamed of? Gun fanaticism just escapes me…and most NRA members too.

  17. SearingTruth says:

    “Why we need fear another, that is the question we must answer.

    We have been delivered to ages of cruelty and inhumanity so many times that we seem unaware of it.

    And while evil does indeed exist, if we recognize how rare it is, and how common humanity is, our children will thrive.


    A Future of the Brave

    • AdLib says:

      Searing Truth, wonderfully said and yet sad that fear is so powerful and so exploited by those with bad intentions.

      Fear seems to be an addictive substance for far too many and the dealers are often those who don’t even believe in the fears they sell.

      As the Beatles said, “All you need is love”, it may sound simplistic and naive but if compassion was once again at the forefront of the public mind, as it was in the times of change in the 60’s and 70’s, maybe meaningful change could again take place.

      • SearingTruth says:

        Indeed gentle friend AdLib, fear is the problem, and weakness, we must defend against.

        “We have much less to fear from each other than those who would make us afraid.”

        A Future of the Brave

        • Ponyjohn says:

          and they all have guns…

          • SearingTruth says:

            And we will never be able to prevent it fellow citizen Ponyjohn.

            I’m not against citizens having weapons, within reason.

            We can only make sure that they are not insane, trained in at least two week weapons and law courses, and registered.

            With a two week waiting period for any weapons purchases.

            And finally, a limit upon mass lethality. Say .38 caliber, with semi-automatics limited to 8 shots a minute.

            In most circumstances, enough firepower to protect the innocent, while at the same time crippling a madman.

            It is not a perfect solution, but will limit the slaughter now, until longer term human progress takes hold.

            “A brittle past.

            And crumbling future.”

            A Future of the Brave

  18. SearingTruth says:

    “It was easy to kill, so we had more death.”

    A Future of the Brave

    • AdLib says:

      Searing Truth, you said it all so perfectly and concisely, that’s it completely!

      • SearingTruth says:

        Thank you gentle friend AdLib. I have been writing a book for over thirty years now called “Wisdom, Warning, and Tyranny” where I have recorded many thousands of observations on the compassion, cruelty, and hope of humankind.

        When you see a comment surrounded by quotes and signed “SearingTruth” it is an observation from that book.

        • funksands says:

          ST, I’ve “known” you for years and I never knew that. That’s a book I’d like to read someday.

          • SearingTruth says:

            Gentle friend funksands, it will never be completed until I am gone, but I try to send out interim versions to those who request it.

            I must warn you though, it is quite disorganized, and not anywhere near as engaging as you may think. It is over 250 pages of sometimes conflicting thoughts, compiled over more than three decades.

            Email me if you’d like a copy so far.

            “Tyranny and tyrants do not change, nor does the character of those who defeat them. In knowledge of evils history we glean protection for its future defeat. In purveyance of good we gain sustenance for its eternal resurrection.

            This book is intended to provide the reader with a reference of past and present thoughts that may help humankind avoid its next, all too predictable, disaster.”
            Wisdom, Warning, and Tyranny -- Preface

            A Future of the Brave

  19. Nirek says:

    Ad, the NRA like the GOtP knows that if you repeat a lie often enough weak minded people will believe it. They are perpetual liars. “The only to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun”. Pure bull$hit!

    Enforcing gun laws instead of ignoring them would be a good start. Background checks even on private sales and gun shows will also be good ways to keep the “bad guys” from getting guns.

    • AdLib says:

      Nirek, all that the Repubs and NRA have is propaganda because reality and facts all stand against them. So they pour their resources into brainwashing people…and it pays off for them…literally…while we have shootings every week of innocent people.

  20. confuseddemocrat says:

    Here is a scenario I thought of:

    Brother of the slain cop could invoke the SYG law to justify shooting the perpetrator.

    But what if the friend then in turn shoots the brother? Would the friend be able to claim SYG?

    Then what if there was a friend of the cop who was also present, could he now shoot the perpetrator’s friend for shooting the cop’s brother?

    These revised SYG laws are written so broadly, they will allow warring factions to have legal shoot outs

    This is crazy

    • AdLib says:

      confuseddemocrat, the scenario you describe sounds legit! All the other parties would be regular civilians and when one shot another, the person with them could shoot that shooter and on and on, no question that they would have felt threatened which is all they have to assert.

      I’m afraid that these laws won’t change until such a horrendous mass shooting happens then SYG gets everyone off…and even then, I wonder.

  21. confuseddemocrat says:

    This is a sad situation AdLib. Given that GA just passed a broad open carry law (HB 875)which also expanded the stand your ground law to allow people to discharge hand guns under the influence of drugs and alcohol (I kid you not), I would not be surprised if the perpetrator walks.

    Lets face it, the shooter can claim he didn’t know the guy was a cop and that when he saw him tussling with his girlfriend, he was fearful and used the weapon to defend himself and his girlfriend. Given the cop was black and the assailants were white; I can see some evil defense lawyer playing on racial animosity and paranoia. and there are enough folks in GA that will fall for it.

    This is a Scary scenario where these SYG are used to sidestep murder of civilians and even cops; particularly if the shooting victims are black or brown folks.

    This is a case to be watched……..

    • AdLib says:

      confuseddemocrat, this is indeed a fucked up situation, especially being in GA under such insane SYG laws.

      You’re right and in fact, don’t you think it’s more likely for the boyfriend to claim SYG to avoid a murder conviction. So the drunken boyfriend of a drunken woman can shoot and kill a security officer to stop him from jailing her for breaking the law…but if he punched him, he’d go to jail.

      These laws are encouraging murder by giving nearly anyone a get out of jail free card. It’s obscene.

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