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AdLib On March - 26 - 2013

miserable too

Politics make for strange bedfellows, who would ever think Republicans would get in bed with gays on marriage? Certainly not the Right Wing Evangelical base of the GOP. Many of them now feel that the GOP has been cheating on them and feel betrayed.

It’s sort of like someone walking away from having lost their money at Three Card Monte and wondering if they were ripped off. The GOP has been playing them for decades and only now, when it’s become a choice of remaining a viable party or continuing to echo the extreme positions of the Religious Right to curry favor with them, do they start suspecting it’s all been a scam.

The Southern Strategy of the GOP began under Richard Nixon and Barry Goldwater in the late ’60’s. On the heels of Lyndon Johnson alienating Blue Dog Democrats in the South after passage of the Civil Rights Act, Republicans saw an opportunity to appeal to the racist white vote that so dominated the South. Recognizing that the Democrats were building on their strengths in cities, to bolster their strength in the South and Midwest, Republicans also went after the Fundamentalist Christian community. The plan was to pander to both, throwing racist and “anti-heathen” red meat, whipping up hatred and fear towards minorities and those of different beliefs to energize their new base. Along with this, they made insistent promises to the Fundamentalist Christians that they would make their most extreme beliefs the law of the land.

The Republican Party created this alliance in a wholly cynical and mercenary manner, they were just pandering to these groups to use them, they didn’t really believe in their causes nor did they intend to bring them to fruition. What Republicans needed was to create a never-ending battle between their pawns and Democrats over primal issues for their base, whip up outrage and division to get the higher turn out they needed to win elections over the more numerous Democrat voters.

This Southern Strategy worked well for some time and would continue to work well if the disbelief in evolution so proudly displayed by many in the GOP base…was correct. Instead, society has evolved from where it was in 1980 and it is no longer a winning hand for the GOP to mimic the homophobia and racism of their base. So what’s a political party to do? Stay on the tracks and get hit by the Evolution Express or jump out of the way?

The Republicans are jumping and the Religious Right are hopping mad. With their blinders locked on since at least the 1950’s, the Religious Right has no conception, immaculate or otherwise, that the majority of Americans support same sex marriage and only older people wear their homophobia on their sleeve like a medal of honor. So they are outraged and flabbergasted that a number of politicians in the GOP are drifting over to supporting same sex marriage.

Republicans are no more compassionate towards others now than they were when they were loudly opposing gay marriage and hating on Latinos last year. They are a facade for corporate interests that only want the tax money of the 99% to flow into their pockets, everything else they do is just to win elections. And at this point in history, it has become clear that being anti-gay and prejudiced against Latinos is not a path to winning. So, being unprincipled, it’s effortless for them to flip to an opposing viewpoint on a critical issue overnight. Overall, it is a good thing but unless one wants to be as foolish as the Fundamentalists, viewing this as a reason to trust the Republicans on this or any issue would not be the wisest decision.

Remember a guy named Mitt Romney? He was the personification of the GOP. A rich person serving only the interests of the wealthy and merely pandering to the rest of the country (“My name is Mitt Romney, y-all.”), tossing out lies like rice at a wedding and assuring his supporters that he cared about their issues…whatever they happened to be on any given day and whether or not that conflicted with an earlier position (even earlier that same day).

Fundamentalist Christians however do have strong and immutable beliefs and they thought the GOP, which assured them it was just like them…was just like them. Now, these naive, small minded people are shocked that the GOP is an organization of unprincipled opportunists who are stabbing them in the back just to win elections. Truth is, the GOP has been doing this for a while.

The GOP wants abortion to remain legal nationally because it has and will help them to rally the Fundamentalists against it and show up to vote Republican in elections. The GOP arguably won the 2004 Presidential election (putting aside their theft of Ohio’s election and electoral votes) by putting hatred of gays and gay marriage as a central issue. Nine years later, since it’s no longer a winning position, the Republicans (as they have on immigration) are flipping to the opposite position without a scintilla of remorse or apology.

So what’s a homophobic segment of a religion to do? They’ve been left standing at the altar of prejudice all by themselves, jilted by their mate in hate. Is the engagement over? Will they find another who is truly their soulless mate?

Unfortunately for them, there is no other party for them to run to on the rebound. Are they destined to be trapped in a hateless marriage?

It might be ironic if Fundamentalist Christians made the decision to divorce from Republicans over the issue of protecting marriage…the only question would be who gets to keep the silverware but no doubt the Fundies would claim that they get to keep it since, as they see it,  the Republicans have stuck it in their back.

Written by AdLib

My motto is, "It is better to have blogged and lost hours of your day, than never to have blogged at all."

66 Responses so far.

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  1. SueInCa says:

    Does anyone ever wonder why it took the death of a president to spur the congress to pass the Civil Rights Bill of 1964? LBJ spurred it on by comments he made in his first Joint Session of Congress speech on November 27, 1963…..I still question why a nation of “patriots screaming freedom” would take so long to pass a bill giving all the rights they should have had all along. From the speech:

    “First, no memorial oration or eulogy could more eloquently honor President Kennedy’s memory than the earliest possible passage of the civil rights bill for which he fought so long. We have talked long enough in this country about equal rights. We have talked for one hundred years or more. It is time now to write the next chapter, and to write it in the books of law.
    I urge you again, as I did in 1957 and again in 1960, to enact a civil rights law so that we can move forward to eliminate from this Nation every trace of discrimination and oppression that is based upon race or color. There could be no greater source of strength to this Nation both at home and abroad.

    And second, no act of ours could more fittingly continue the work of President Kennedy than the early passage of the tax bill for which he fought all this long year. This is a bill designed to increase our national income and Federal revenues, and to provide insurance against recession. That bill, if passed without delay, means more security for those now working, more jobs for those now without them, and more incentive for our economy.

    As one who has long served in both Houses of the Congress, I firmly believe in the independence and the integrity of the legislative branch. And I promise you that I shall always respect this. It is deep in the marrow of my bones. With equal firmness, I believe in the capacity and I believe in the ability of the Congress, despite the divisions of opinions which characterize our Nation, to act--to act wisely, to act vigorously, to act speedily when the need arises.

    The need is here. The need is now. I ask your help.
    We meet in grief, but let us also meet in renewed dedication and renewed vigor. Let us meet in action, in tolerance, and in mutual understanding. John Kennedy’s death commands what his life conveyed--that America must move forward. The time has come for Americans of all races and creeds and political beliefs to understand and to respect one another. So let us put an end to the teaching and the preaching of hate and evil and violence. Let us turn away from the fanatics of the far left and the far right, from the apostles of bitterness and bigotry, from those defiant of law, and those who pour venom into our Nation’s bloodstream.

    I profoundly hope that the tragedy and the torment of these terrible days will bind us together in new fellowship, making us one people in our hour of sorrow. So let us here highly resolve that John Fitzgerald Kennedy did not live--or die--in vain. And on this Thanksgiving eve, as we gather together to ask the Lord’s blessing, and give Him our thanks, let us unite in those familiar and cherished words:

    America, America,
    God shed His grace on thee,
    And crown thy good With brotherhood
    From sea to shining sea.”


    • MurphTheSurf3 says:

      It is my opinion that our system of government works against change. How many other countries have adopted the U.S. system? One. Liberia and it has been in civil war for 100 years.

      How many have adopted elements of our governmental structure? A half dozen or so.

      Our system of checks and balances creates the conditions for gridlock.

      Three issues are in front of the American people right now:

      a) Women’s health rights
      b) Gun safety
      c) Gay Marriage

      In all three cases public opinion is clear and yet our legislature feels free to ignore it. In a parliamentary system this would not be tolerated.

      The great danger in a parliamentary structure where the executive sits in the legislature and the judiciary has a far more limited role to create law, the danger is that things can change too quickly, but given the choice between gridlock and the express lane, I know which one I would choose.

      • BourneID says:

        Thanks Murph. As expected, excellent. You lift the essentials that are on the table right now. Sadly,as you say, paralysis has overtaken the legislative branch and I wonder how long its leaders think they can continue to ignore us.

        Given the news reports on an out-of-control North Korea, I wonder how long it will take them to decide if we have enough money in the bank to defend ourselves. Like most, I am disgusted with what we watch every day. Now, I am disgusted and afraid of whet we watch every day.

        I wanted to rate your comment but I don’t see how, so I’ll just say well done.


      • SueInCa says:


        You might be interested in a course I am taking with Stanford Univ for free. It is on Democracy and the professor will be touching on exactly the info you brought up here. The first class is either 4/1 or 4/3 and the link is below


        Go down to Democratic Development

        And here is their facebook page:


        There are many courses Stanford offers for free.

        • BourneID says:

          Sue, I’m going to check out the links you’ve given Murph. I had no idea Stanford offered courses at no cost. Great information.

          Thank you.


          • SueInCa says:

            I am going to start with this class, it is 10 weeks, then I will start taking others. You do not get college credit but it sure would not look bad on a resume.

    • AdLib says:

      Sue, the sad fact is that it has always been nearly impossible to change this country just using wisdom, thoughtfulness and having an eye towards the future. Change has almost always been a reaction to other events. Not only do the elite want the status quo to remain (and intensify to their benefit), many Americans are more afraid of change than slamming head on into a disaster.

      Why can’t we be more pro-active? Why can’t we head off problems before they occur? Why must we have a terrible disaster to change the way things are?

      Maybe because most Americans would rather stay in the hell they know than risk an unknown future…unless a horrible thing happens, then they can swiftly go along with even radical changes (witness The Patriot Act…the name still pisses me off).

      We didn’t enter WWII until after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, we didn’t pass a Civil Rights Act until after JFK was assasinated and many had been lynched and killed in The South for seeking equality…America only changes in reaction to something, not because our pols operate like true leaders.

      Imagine if we all drove cars like pols run the country. We wouldn’t turn in the right direction until we had crashed into a dead end first.

      And who could see down the road with the Baggers blocking the windshield constantly.

      Come to think of it, The RW Repubs in DC should be arrested for reckless driving and being under the influence of hatred.

      • SueInCa says:

        I know Adlib I just keep hoping for something, anything better. But I am realistic, both parties have their elites with a grip on the top spots and neither you or I would be allowed unless they want us to campaign or give money…..I still think, though that one side is better.

        Check out the links I provided to Murph above. They are free courses that you can take online with Stanford University. I am taking the course in Democratic Development starting on April 1.

      • MurphTheSurf3 says:

        Ad Lib- if you want to- take a look at my reply to Sue in this thread regarding our Split Government System and the Parliamentary System. Be interested in your thinking on this.

  2. Nirek says:

    This issue is about equality!

    • AdLib says:

      Nirek, for people who have even a little common sense, it is an issue of equality but for the frothing haters out there, it’s all about fear of “the other” and trying to feel bigger by keeping “the others” down.

      They have already lost, even if it will take a while for them to finally realize it.

      • choicelady says:

        The same folk are still running scared at RACIAL equality. They will NEVER get over this so long as they hold to the belief that some people are more ‘equal than others’ in the best Animal Farm tradition.

      • Nirek says:

        Adlib, they are running scared. Equal rights will be the norm soon!

  3. kesmarn says:

    Flying through this afternoon, AdLib, and I hope to be able to comment more later, but I just had to share a bit of info that is new to me (probably familiar to just about everyone else). It’s a psychological concept known as the Dunning Kruger Effect. Here’s the wiki definition:

    The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.

    Actual competence may weaken self-confidence, as competent individuals may falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. David Dunning and Justin Kruger of Cornell University conclude, “the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others”.

    In other words, the less you know, the more you think you know.

    Sound like any RW fundie teapartiers we’ve encountered?

    Wonderful article as always!

    • kes, it’s sort of like the old “Peter Principle.” The principle basically states that people can be, and often are promoted to positions that are beyond their skill level or abilities. I used to see this all the time in the military.

      • kesmarn says:

        I don’t doubt that in the slightest, KT. And I’m sure it had some pretty unpleasant consequences for the folks who served under “General Peter.”

    • MurphTheSurf3 says:

      WoW—- I am copying and pasting this into my archive. Four Stars ****

    • Ha kes! I heard it said that true intelligence begins when we realize how much we DON’T know. Makes sense to me. 😉

    • choicelady says:

      Hmmm kes -- I think you’ve just pinpointed the reason why, no matter who we are, no matter the age, sex, race, ethnicity, experience, class, or status -- we are all possessed of the belief we are better than average drivers.

      • kesmarn says:

        I think they call that the “Lake Wobegon” effect, c’lady.

        (Unrelated: did you see that Frances Perkins won the Episcopalian LentMadness bracket competition for the right to be this year’s saint who wears the Golden Halo? Think b’ito might have been pulling strings from a higher place?)

    • AdLib says:

      Hey Kes! I am aware of this syndrome though I didn’t know the technical name of it. I thought it was called Baggiopathy.

      The whole Bagger phenomena has been a primer in the Dunning–Kruger effect, they very publicly display that they are ignorant of facts, history, reasoning, etc. yet proclaim that only they posses the truths.

      Science is an anti-Christian conspiracy by The Devil, news, polls and facts are skewed by liberals and keep your government hands off of my Medicare.

      Someone like Victoria Jackson should host a telethon for this incurable disease, “Won’t you please help little Rand? He doesn’t even know he’s wearing poodle fur as a toupee, he needs your help today!”

      • kesmarn says:

        Somehow I sense the only cure for Baggiopathy is — not just a toupee exchange — but a total brain transplant, AdLib. Any reasonably capable primate would be acceptable as a donor.

  4. MurphTheSurf3 says:

    Hey Ad Lib- thoughtful piece.

    The GOP has struggled with its identity for much of the 20th and 21st century. Its origins are in Reform- huge, massive, radical reform. And they have struggle with that ever since the end of the Civil War. But Reconstruction tainted the Party and rendered it ineffective and shattered.

    At the end of the 19th century the Party of Bob LaFollette and Teddy Roosevelt (generally a progressive reformer and part of the reforming wing of the GOP) became the Party of Taft, Harding, Coolidge and Hoover…..the party of Big Money, Small Government and Isolationism.

    After the Great Depression and WWII, the Party turned to reform again with its “patriotic millionaires” embracing the war hero IKE who proved to be a real reformer with strong progressive leanings.

    Goldwater was a throwback. Nixon was felled by his personal fears. Ford was a blip on the screen. But Nixon had turned his back on Ike’s reform in favor of dark politics (with Roger Ailes and Lee Atwater as poster boys)

    And then came Reagan who took all of the threads you lay before us in your post and wove them into the first GOP tapestry since the days of the Big Money Boys after WWI. Bush Sr. tried to restore a bit of Eisenhower rationality but was pushed overboard by the moral maority, neocon, supply side, Reagan worshipers who eventually created the Bush presidency and its cast of regime making characters.

    And now that tapestry seems to coming apart and so the weavers are busy trying to patch something else together.

    And the conflict between the Party and its former allies makes it clear how ham fisted that effort seems to be.

    Here are three contributions to your story featuring Gary Bauer, Michael Huckabee and Nicole Wallace.


    Today, the National Organization for Marriage and allied groups organized a “March for Marriage” orchestrated to coincide with arguments at the Supreme Court over the constitutionality of Proposition 8 and the Defense of Marriage Act.

    The march ended with a rally on the National Mall featuring a variety of speakers, including Gary Bauer, who used it as a platform to send a message to the Republican Party that “if you bail out on this issue, I will leave the party and I will take as many people with me as I possibly can” http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/gary-bauer-threatens-leave-gop-if-it-bails-out-issue-marriage-equality


    Mike Huckabee was asked by Newsmax if he thinks the GOP will pivot to support marriage equality:

    “They might. And if they do, they’re going to lose a large part of their base because evangelicals will take a walk. And it’s not because there’s an anti-homosexual mood, and nobody’s homophobic that I know of, but many of us, and I consider myself included, base our standards not on the latest Washington Post poll, but on an objective standard, not a subjective såtandard. å have great sympathy and extraordinary admiration for Sen. Portman. I consider him a friend and I value his work in the Senate and think he’s a great person. The mistake is that we sometimes base our public policy decisions on how we feel, how we think, maybe even some personal experiences, and we don’t regard a lot of these issues from the standpoint of an objective standard.”

    Read more: http://www.towleroad.com/2013/03/mike-huckabee-evangelicals-will-take-a-walk-if-gop-supports-marriage-equality-video.html#ixzz2Oi9xa95l

    On Fox News Sunday this morning, evangelical leader Gary Bauer and Republican strategist Nicolle Wallace went head-to-head over the upcoming Supreme Court hearings on overturning Proposition 8, California’s controversial law banning same-sex marriages within the state.

    Former George W. Bush advisor Nicole Wallace countered that Bauer faces polling troubles in that 65% of evangelicals under the age of 33 support marriage equality; and more than 60% of Americans support some form of marriage equality.

    “The argument that the public is overwhelmingly in favor of same sex marriage is ludicrous,” evangelical leader Gary Bauer later responded. “33 states have voted to keep marriage the union of one man and one woman. If it was so obvious that the American public wants to try a radical social experiment that results in children in those households, definitely, definitely, not having a mother and a father … If the opinion of the American public was so overwhelming, the gay rights movement and their allies like Nicole wouldn’t be asking the Supreme Court to say to the American people, ‘You have no say on this issue.’”

    When presented with polling data that shows an upward trend in Americans supporting same-sex marriage, Bauer responded, “I’m not worried about that because the polls are skewed.” He added that the votes to legalize same-sex marriage in four states this past November still had around 45% “no” votes, outrunning Romney in many places.


    • choicelady says:

      VERY helpful background information, Murph. Thank you!

    • SueInCa says:

      This seems like the perfect party to step up and claim defectors from the Republican party. They target especially the evangelical base with their platform on religious freedom and overall Libertarians with their entire platform. People who supported the R party, but lean libertarian, just not entirely, would be the target of this group. Ron Paul lent his support this last year.


    • AdLib says:

      Thanks for providing a bit wider perspective on this, Murph!

      The GOP does have a sordid history, with some exceptions as you’ve noted, of trying to or actually harming the majority of Americans to benefit the wealthy minority which they truly represent. Since they are shameless, they are hardly apologetic about this.

      This RW demographic tapestry is indeed coming apart and IMO, no amount of patching can fully repair it. The very fabric of it is deteriorating, losing all its integrity(or whatever remains of it), there is no substance to latch onto for any reweaving to work.

      The GOP has been hollowed out by greed and they’ve only been able to stay competitive nationally by obscuring that using fear, envy and prejudices. However, now their “mindless” army is turning on them for being so empty of principles. When you’re failing at deceiving the people who have trusted you the most, what prospects do you have on fooling people who don’t trust or like you too much?

      As for the very revealing articles you posted, Bauer’s squealing about how he will take many evangelicals with him if the GOP backs away from homophobia…it’s laughable.

      And of course he disputes all the polls showing that his side is losing the battle over gay marriage as “slanted”, that’s what the small minded ideologues did throughout the 2012 election. They have to shut out and disqualify reality because they have no ability to deal with it…accepting reality would undermine their entire belief system so when it comes to a choice between them, these insecure loons will choose their belief system over reality every time.

      The rest of us who live in reality know that open homophobia and opposition to gay people being treated as equals in our society is becoming stigmatized, just like open racism and open chauvinism have become.

      They can refuse to accept it and place it in their minds next to their belief that humans and dinosaurs lived together on this 6,000 year old planet…and in a way, maybe they will prove that humans and dinosaurs do live together.

      • MurphTheSurf3 says:

        I found the silence this week from the political right- from the governing right interesting. When Limbaugh calls this a lost cause, and the GOP in the House whose attorneys are defending DOMA in front of SCOTUS say nary a word about it….and yet the evangelical, ultra right social leadership is not moving an inch. My question is how we should exploit this.

        All of this seems to reflect your own thinking- hollowed out, internally struggling, fracturing…..So, how shall we respond…how do we take advantage of their mess.

  5. audadvnc says:

    Great article! Those two groups really deserve each other -- it’s a marriage made in heaven.

  6. SallyT says:

    AdLib, it’s funny (not a good word here) but evidently the liberal view usually wins out with time. The reason it takes so long is that those against are always going to show up to vote against it. Their views against makes them determined to make sure they are right! But, they aren’t and they are bucking the tide. Evidently, they realize this and they might not agree but they fight it less. They haven’t changed their mind but by not fighting it they might get more to come to their side without those realizing it. Once they can get their people into power, then they can try to change it back. Are people smart enough to realize this, I think so, and I certainly hope so.

    • AdLib says:

      Sally, I agree, I do think people realize that they can’t trust the GOP’s sudden and openly admitted tactical conversion to supporting gay and immigrant rights. With their decades long track record of homophobia and racism…not to mention that the GOP Party platform just last year was opposed to gay marriage…I find it beyond common sense that gay people and immigrants would suddenly embrace their long time enemies who only changed their minds because they lost the last election and they want to win the next one…so they can execute their harmful agenda.

      This is futility in action, being dittoheads of convenience is something that only appears to get the approval of Right Wingers anyway.

      If it helps pass good legislation, great. Other than that, the GOP is hugely deluded if they think they will be trusted and supported by people in these groups after being so crudely attacked for so long.

    • Hey Sally! If I have learned anything in this life, it is to realize that clinging to old ideas is completely futile. As the Tao has instructed me, a young sapling can bend with the changing winds and not break. The old dead tree snaps in two in a strong wind.

  7. SueInCa says:

    Interesting concept but I am not sure the Fundies will run from the GOP. They have no where else to go. I do believe as you summarized they will stay in a love hate relationship with them. Number one, their goals of someday turning this country theocratic is a powerful expectation of all of them. Number two, Democrats are heathens who actually like most people and do not look at gender, sex or try to get into your bedroom. Personally I think these people have a real issue with sex overall. People in their midst are always getting busted for doing the things they preach against but I say they cannot help themselves, it is an obsession with them.

    I cannot see them going libertarian, although a derivative of libertarian would suit them, one where they change the rules completely. There is another party, the Constitution Party and it is hard to tell how many people are even aware of them, much less belong…. I do know their platform is perfect for the fundie and perhaps they have been waiting patiently for all of this to go down.

    I am continually puzzled by these people. While I know a lot about their backgrounds, their beliefs and what their goals are, they are so enter-twined with different groups, it is always necessary to check the background of any person who, say for instance, is speaking on behalf of the Alliance Defense Fund. I know who they are, but most in public would not. Or Samuel Rodriguez being highlighted by Chris Hayes who obviously did nothing to check his background and portrayed him as a leader of the Latino evangelicals. I am sure most of those Latinos would be horrified to find out he “prays away the muslim” in cahoots with Jerry Boykin et al.

    • choicelady says:

      Since my organization took the lead on a faith amicus on behalf of marriage equality, I’m very proud of the work we’ve done to undermine the religious right.

      I want to have two bumper stickers. One would say “God bless the world, no exceptions.” The other “I’m doing my best to piss off the religious right.”

      So I had a meeting at the office of the Catholic Conference today. The Director knows we headed the amicus FOR marriage equality. Amazingly the office conference room was locked and the meeting moved elsewhere. Never happened before. Hmmmm. Should I take this personally? Well -- I am, and laughing every inch of the way. But I’ve championed the Church’s right to be its own self and respected where its rights did not trample anyone else’s. I have yet to have that reciprocated. If the lockout was personal, it says waaaay more about them than it does me.

      Just as a point of interest, I looked up when the Vatican pardoned Galileo. It was 1992 -- 350 years AFTER he died, and about 380 from the time he first published and was censured and censored.

      Saying the Vatican is behind the curve is a major understatement.

      So if they want to lock out their Protestant friend, oh well. I shall survive. Not sure they will. There are signs across our area at Catholic churches, “Catholics come home.” Well it might help if first they cleaned house?

      • SueInCa says:

        This is kind of off topic but do you know that when Lee Harvey Oswald was killed, the Greater Dallas Council of Churches refused to have anyone perform a service for him? My my how the Council of Churches has evolved…..

        • choicelady says:

          The Council in Texas remains pretty conservative, but I’m having some trouble reconciling their even having a ROLE in this since they weren’t a denomination or church but a kind of policy/resource office for a lot of churches. I can’t fathom how they’d ever have been involved in something like a funeral. That said, Texas IMPACT, the lobbying group and separate entirely from the Council, is pretty cool. I know the Director, and she ROCKS. I actually know nothing at all about the Council, but if it turned out to STILL be to the right of Attila the Hun, I’d be sorry but not surprised. It IS Texas, after all!

      • AdLib says:

        Hey CL, big props to you and your organization for being out front on this! Indeed, how Christian is it of religious extremists to hate others for any reason? Did I miss something, is there a section in The Bible where Jesus tells his followers to hate people who are different from them in some way?

        If so, Jesus was Middle Eastern so all these RW Fundies who are white and come from European heritage are different and through their own logic, should be hated by Christians.

        It’s so absurd, it almost doesn’t need ridicule.

        But I do it anyway!

        • choicelady says:

          Well it DOES miss the Good Samaritan story -- the Samaritan was the most hated foe of Jews but was the identity of the man who helped the Jew overwhelmed by robbers and left for dead. Loving one’s enemies does NOT mean having to give up your principles, but it does mean -- well, not locking them out of your conference room when they are coming to support your work!

          I am actually sort of fond of the guy who did this, but he really is immature when I do something he doesn’t like. I detest many of the THINGS he does around his and the Church’s views, but I don’t do that back to him. For this reason they think we’re not principled -- but if principle means a fight to the death, then we missed the MUCH larger issue of the Samaritan. And Jesus. And the whole damned thing.

          How odd that I, barely a participant in any organized religion, practice what the fundamentals tell me to do and he never does.

          I really do love your ridicule -- these things DO generate either outrage (exhausting) or humor (energizing!) You help us choose the healthier way! Thanks, AdLib!

          • Hey CL, here’s a bit of wisdom from the Tao.

            “What is a good man but a bad man’s teacher?
            What is a bad man but a good man’s charge?
            If you don’t understand this, you will get lost,
            however intelligent you are.
            It is the great secret.”

            I have to admit that I’m not big on the concepts of good and evil. I tend to think of these in terms of sick and healthy. The more science discovers about the mind and body, the more solid explanations there are about human behavior, minus the spooky language. 😉

            • Thanks CL. Like I said, I’m not big on the traditional concepts of good and evil.
              I do think that part of the Tao shows a very powerful spirituality. To be understanding yet enlightening at the same time. It’s the whole good and bad thing that may cause confusion with the motivation of the teacher.

            • choicelady says:

              I and most of our denominational members would agree with you and the Tao.

              I have a decent relationship with this man 95% of the time, but I will NOT back down on our principles yet won’t work myself into a lather over his silly exclusion. I am SO GLAD I can laugh at this!

              The ONE objection I have to the verse is = I for SURE don’t want this man as my charge! He has to grow up on his own.

              “Human kindness, overflowing, and I think it’s gonna rain today.”

              I am fine. If I cannot be hurt by this, then progress has ALREADY been made on the healthy adult front.

    • AdLib says:

      Hey Sue, what I’m saying is that the marriage between Fundies and the GOP is being undermined by the GOP having to move for political reasons towards supporting gay marriage but agreed, there is no one else for them to marry instead.

      I think the conflict will continue to grow as the Fundies’ rail against being tossed aside on one issue after another in the Repubs’ pursuit of voters.

      So the GOP Elite will be a house divided, between the very extremists they validated and manipulated, the Southern racist white males (Baggers) and the RW Christian Fundamentalists.

      Predicting blowback is the biggest failing of the power elite, especially on the GOP side. They never figured out that the Voter ID laws would motivate greater minority turn out nor that Mitt Romney being a living personification of their quest for plutocracy would be a negative.

      In this case, they never predicted that the people they saw as easily brainwashed rubes might one day rise up and challenge their control of the GOP.

      That’s what I see the Fundies/Baggers doing, not bolting from the GOP but feeling even more victimized (as usual) and using that to wrestle with the GOP Elite for control of the party’s agenda.

      I see a destructive internal war deepening in the GOP…which is fitting since they are such supporters of new wars.

      • SueInCa says:


        I believe, as you say, a destructive internal war coming but like I said, The Constitution Party is right there to pick these people up. Their platform is perfect for the “lean libertarian” and the evangelicals. I posted a link to their website up in response to Murph’s comments. I just wonder if this match or non-match for the GOP will really give the Dems any long-term headway. It seems to me that Dems, for the most part, will rest on their so-called victory which will be the biggest mistake the party ever makes. I am speaking of congress and the party elite, not the progressive wing or the radical wing. We will never stop changing and moving forward because we know what can happen when you open the door to extremists. The party elite do as well but they are not down in the trenches as we are so they tend to think the war is won.

        How they can do that with the radical laws and issues going on around them is puzzling to me. It has always been that way, but I have not always felt the party elite were really with the people on the ground in terms of their thought processes and awareness. I think they call it insider Washington……

        • choicelady says:

          Sue -- I think you are right on the money. I’d LOVE to see the GOP extremists carved off the party and slapped onto the Constitution Party. The latter even with them would be a minority third party drawing off votes and rendering them both utterly impotent. That’s what George Wallace did in the 1960s to the Dems against McGovern.

          For conspiracy buffs, I was told (did not read this for myself) that when Wallace was shot in 1972 by Arthur Bremmer, the authorities arrived at Bremmer’s apartment -- his name and location had NOT been publicly disclosed -- they found Watergate ‘plumbers’ already there. So how did they know, and by what right did they enter? Who was REALLY behind removing the Southern guy from the race and building on the GOP Southern Strategy??? These sorts of smoking guns NEVER get pursued.

          The GOP kept building its strength on drawing in the disaffected conservatives who cannot abide changes that are inclusive. But as they became more and more consolidated, the discipline and solidarity they have long showed is now fracturing. It’s not just fiscal v social conservatives but open power grabs by various individuals across those distinctions. They will not stand. And if the true believers go over to the Constitution Party to pound the drum against things such as marriage equality, they will be decades out of office.

          But Dems need to pay attention to that as well -- those divisions already exist in the party. They need to prevent the fragmentation that is still just burbling under the surface.

          • SallyT says:

            CL, don’t know for a fact but were they the same Watergate Plumbers that were former CIA Agents? Once a CIA Agent, always a CIA Agent.

  8. Another nice piece Ad. The GOPers are definitely running scared. First they drag out Mark Rubio so they may look Latino friendly, now they’re going after the gay vote. Once Hillary said she backed gay marriage, that really put the fear in the GOP. I’m sure they see her as a major contender for 2016.

    I also think that when Rob Portman came out in favor of it, they probably felt a little egg on their faces. Now if Mr. Speaker of Orange changes his mind, after saying he couldn’t ever imagine doing so, you know they are desperate.

    Gay people, like Latinos are not stupid though and will probably see this new GOP tack for what it truly is. To catch the blowing winds of change. It will be interesting to see how the fundies react to the GOP’s new found “tolerance.”

    • AdLib says:

      Thanks KT! It’s all part of their new game, “It’s not our offensive stand on issues that people find offensive, it’s that we haven’t found the best way to hide it behind a deceptive messenger and dishonest propaganda.”

      So true, despite some polls that say gays and Latinos have no awareness or memory for what the Repubs said and did just months ago and for decades to attack them, these are not stupid people and the Repubs saying, “Me too! Now vote for us so we can screw you!” won’t change many minds.

      Do they want to vote for the party that has fought for them for decades or fought against them for decades and are now just pandering to win future elections? It’s not a mystery to me.

    • SueInCa says:

      KT here is a write up regarding the solidarity signs that people are using to show support for gay marriage. The writer is assuming because he did not get what he wanted, all people are doing is changing their profile. He gives no one the benefit of the doubt that we have done the things he suggests. This is the kind of whining I am referring to in my comment below.


      • sue, fortunately, I think most gay people can see through these surface attempts of solidarity. Their everyday lives and the walls that they cannot escape running into are enough to solidify their stance and give them a strong indication as to who is really on their side, and who isn’t.
        I mean, just look at the GOP’s stance just a few months ago and their obvious pandering now. I’m sure some will fall for it, but I am confident that those who have litterly been been the objects of GOP hatred and religious condemnation will know what a sleazy attempt this is by the GOP to broaden their base.
        I never could understand why any gay man or woman would want anything to do with the GOP. It’s like an American Indian, wearing a US cavalry hat and uniform, or a Jew in SS uniform. Total sell outs.

        • SueInCa says:

          Just an FYI for you on the solidarity symbol, most of the people I know who are using it, have gay family members. I cannot speak for all using it, but the ones I know have good reason to use it and their family members know it is sincere. How could they not with the support they have received over the years? I get this guy’s frustration but he makes a mistake of painting everyone with one broad brush, that is not even close to reality.

        • SueInCa says:

          Those are the same thoughts I had KT and then 2010 hit. I was just really depressed that they would turn like that. I will get over it, but part of the continuing problem with rights to this day is the way they voted for a group they knew would not support them, out of anger to another individual or party.

          • Ah Sue, the world is constantly changing. I think those who distrusted Obama, mainly over DADT and the DOMA have seen that Obama is sincere in his reconsideration of gay rights as a whole.
            There will always be gay republicans (why, I can’t fathom) but I really feel they are in the minority and not really a decisive force that would help GOPers get reelected.
            They look at all the other issues as well, like financial equality, healthcare and SS and Medicare/medicaid. The majority of gay people are no different than we are. They are not single issue voters. Not the majority of them.
            That’s why the skeptics from the gay community had no real impact on the reelection of Obama.

            • Sue, I wouldn’t call it a “bad attitude.” I too was pissed with those who condemned Obama for not being on their side.

              Since Obama made public his support of gay marriage, and the repeal of DADT, I think that may have put to bed the major concerns about his sincerity. I have yet to actually meet a gay republican. I know from research and MSM articles, that they do exist (why I’ll never know). I do think that they are a very small segment of the gay community at large.
              Every gay person I have known is really about freedom. Not just freedom to choose gender, but freedom overall. The GOP has consistently shown that they really are NOT about personal freedom.

            • SueInCa says:

              KT I am working on my bad attitude but it will take time and perhaps the results of another mid term to see how the pendulum swings. I am not really pissed at all, just disappointed.

    • SueInCa says:

      One caution on your belief that gay people will see through the GOP, remember 2010 when they turned against Dems because this exact issue was not moving fast enough for them. They have shown how fickle they can be when things do not go as they want or as fast as they think they should. Either by not showing up to the polls or voting for the opposite party. I support gay rights but this issue has been a nagging thought for me since 2010. Please tell me I read it all wrong?

      • Hey Sue, thanks for replying. No, I don’t think your concerns are completely unfounded. I think, as with any group, especially those who have been a part of a group who have been denied equal treatment under the law, or looked upon as somewhat less than others, there will be those that might be a little more sensitive than others in their group.

        I think they just weren’t sure of Obama’s sincerity. I do think they behaved a bit prematurely. Then again, I can’t realize just how frustrating such an issue is to those who are the targets of discrimination, condemnation and outright bigotry. Hopefully, they can see the difference between the obvious, sincere deliberations of the president and Hillary and other dems, as opposed to an obvious pandering by a hurting and damaged GOP attempt to widen their base.

        I’m a bit sensitive to the whole issue, because my daughter is gay, and I’ve seen first hand how bigotry and religious condemnation has affected her in negative ways. She is smart, hardworking, funny and above all, has a true appreciation for love. Love without government sanctioned restrictions. She knows, more than I do about unconditional love. To see these homophobes and religious nuts and downright haters trying to keep her from equal treatment under the law angers me, a great deal.

        • SueInCa says:

          KT I have a nephew and niece who are bi-racial so I know what your daughter goes through. My family has always been inclusive so sometimes I overlook what others are truly going through. I have to get better at that but I can tell you even as late as 95 I had to dress someone down for his liberal use of the N word at a party we were both attending. I was horrified at his language and his clear disregard for their rights. Unfortunately he did not realize he was talking to someone whose niece was bi-racial lol. At the end of the night I did apologize to the host(my uncle) and he told me not to sweat it the guy had been told many times before, he was family so their hands were kind of tied. It was in the south so I know their ways of thinking are not always going to mesh with mine. Still I just could not keep quiet.

          • Sue, I salute you for NOT keeping quite. Any denial of love or equal rights should be met with condemnation and disgust.

            I learned a very valuable lesson when I was still in high school.

            I was in the marching band that performed at high school football half times.
            We occasionally had “away games,” which meant we would travel to other cities to perform. We did this by Greyhound bus and it was a popular thing to sit with a favorite gal and make out on the bus. We would shield our young romantic experiences by hanging our uniform bag just so.
            One bus trip, I was with a beautiful black majorette and we were seriously making out. After that, there were white guys and black guys that wanted to kick my ass. I realized then the utter stupidity of racism. Lori was a beautiful young woman (very well developed) that any white guy or black guy would have loved to be with. Only the white guys didn’t have the courage to be out in the open about it. That’s when I first really learned about racism.

            • Sue, my mom used to make me and my brother and sisters go to church. I didn’t like it because I had to sit still and listen. At my age then, sitting still was not an easy thing to do 😉

              After countless times trying to get us to go, my mom finally gave up. My dad never attended services. He just couldn’t agree with such things. It’s not that he was a bad guy, but I think he considered his relationship with god as a much more personal thing. I don’t really know, to this day, how he felt. I think he may have seen it as pretending.

            • SueInCa says:

              KT wow what an experience. To tell you the truth I never thought about a difference until I was prob in the 7th grade. We moved to an area that was integrated(schools) and I learned it from other kids. My family were not racist and I had never heard the N word. I think my dad, coming from the south, went to the other extreme but I don’t remember ever hearing derogatory terms for people of other color or faiths. Except Baptists. My dad was not a religious person and he really hated baptists because that was the church his mom made them go to.

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