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AdLib On December - 14 - 2012

Another horrible gun attack took place today in Newtown, Connecticut at Sandy Hook Elementary school, early reports are that 26 people have been murdered, 18 children and 8 adults. Details are very sketchy right now, latest reports are that there was one shooter, allegedly his name is Ryan Adam Lanza, around 24 years old. His mother was an elementary school teacher at this school which is where he shot her and many of the children in her classroom. As always, early reports are not always reliable so take this information with measure.

Of course, the first attention and great compassion should be focused on the parents and families of those who have been killed and wounded. For any parent, especially those of the youngest and most vulnerable children of elementary school age, this is the kind of nightmare that is unimaginable.

As the days go by though and the emotional and human side of this attack are addressed, there needs to be a united response to the NRA and their political puppets in the GOP and on Fox News when they say, “This is not the time to talk about gun control.” The response needs to be, “This is exactly the time and we’re not only going to talk about, we’re going to do something about it!”

Earlier in the week there was a shooting in a Portland, Oregon shopping mall that killed 2 people. A week and a half ago, Kansas City Chiefs linebacker Jovan Belcher murdered his girlfriend then shot himself. In August, in Oak Creek, Wisconsin, a gunman shot 6 people in a Sikh temple. In July, there was the mass shooting killing 12 people in Aurora, Colorado at the Dark Knight Rises opening, an unarmed 17 year old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed by the shameless and lying murderer, George Zimmerman…sadly, a larger list could be provided.

The question is, in order to protect the profits of the firearms industry, which is the sole reason the NRA actually exists, do we as Americans have to accept murderous gun attacks on innocent children and adults on an almost monthly basis? This is insane, there is NO other industrialized country that has this kind of proliferate mass murders by independent, well armed citizens. And there is no other nation as insane about making it easier for more people to have more guns…let alone passing laws that not only allow but encourage people to shoot other people by letting them claim after the shooting that they felt threatened, as the Stand Your Ground laws do.

As is no secret, an unholy alliance has been successfully built between the manipulative corporate gun industry and Republican and rural voters. The GOP has happily rolled over for the NRA and their alliance in return for voters (as the unapologetic prostitute the GOP is) and there are a number of Democrats, especially in red and purple states who echo the same pro-gun agenda out of fear for their re-election.

The bullshit is that all of these people care about The Constitution. Instead, this obsessiveness over the 2nd Amendment is all about greed for the gun industry, power for the NRA and both of those things for politicians.

They have other BS justifications that don’t pass the facts or logic test. First, people need guns to protect themselves in their homes. Put aside the studies showing that there are next to no incidents in a given year of people “protecting themselves” in their home (from who or what?), let’s go with anecdotal evidence. We all know how “sexy” a story like that would be to the media, they’d broadcast it all day but how many incidents have been heard of on local or cable news where anyone protected themselves in their home from harm solely because they had a gun? Now count how many times you’ve heard stories about someone shooting their spouse, family member or some other person in their home because a gun was available?

And this involves a kind of twisted logic. Gun industry corporations, through the NRA and ALEC also promote the concept that people need guns to protect themselves from “bad guys” who have guns. It’s really sociopathic, they are essentially trying to make it sensible that the solution to bad people having guns is not to prevent bad people from getting guns…because they represent good paying customers as well…but to just use them as an excuse to sell more guns to “good guys”.  And the stats are that thanks to lax laws and guns being sold at gun shows, around 40% of all legally owned guns are bought without any background check. So there is an active system protected by the NRA that promotes the sale of guns to the mentally ill, terrorists, etc.

Our government has been so detached from the majority of the population on so many issues, on the economy and tax fairness, on gay rights, on drug laws, on immigration but when it comes to supporting the gun culture in the U.S., they are actually right with the majority that has been misled into thinking that the freer guns are, the freer they are.

It is high time that the vocal minority opposing loose gun laws and the gun culture in America step up and turn around those who have been manipulated into thinking that building a more dangerous environment for us and our kids will somehow keep us safer.

No, this is not about reversing the 2nd Amendment or trampling on any Constitutional rights, it’s not about outlawing guns. It’s about having a rational and sane policy about the acquiring of guns (ammunition laws could go a long way!) and their availability to those who shouldn’t have them.

The gun industry, the NRA and the GOP know what an easy game this is for them to win. As long as they can instill fear, fear of those who are black and Latino, fear of a tyrannical government, fear of terrorists (ironic that gun owners have proven to be the majority of terrorists who have acted out in this country), fear of the unknown and the foreign, they have their “army” marching under them. What makes the job of the sane people harder is that they usually can only use intellect to reason instead of emotion.

Except when a horrible thing like this happens…which is why at such moments, the NRA and their pawns fight aggressively against any discussion about gun control even being mentioned. Any person with a fraction of humanity can’t help but be disgusted and appalled that a 24 year old can have such easy access to a murderous weapon and end the lives of so many children who will never grow up and have a chance to even learn what the 2nd Amendment is. Now is a time that the voices of those opposing the proliferation of guns would be heard by some who otherwise might tune them out. So the campaign begins today by the Right Wing to shoot down any conversation about gun control.

Now is not the time to discuss this? No, this is exactly the time to discuss this and they know it. Those who agree should be very visible and vocal, contacting President Obama, their US Senator and House Representative, now is indeed the time to act and fight back against this corporate-backed terrorism.

Today we mourn and send prayers and best thoughts to those suffering with the results of this horrific act. Tomorrow, we need to stand up against the escalation, against more and more senseless gun murders, against an America where the arbitrary murdering of innocent people isn’t accepted as necessary to protect the rights of gun manufacturers and the re-election of Republicans and conservative Democrats.

Now is not only the right time to talk about the growing threat of gun violence in our society, it’s the right time to do something about it.

Written by AdLib

My motto is, "It is better to have blogged and lost hours of your day, than never to have blogged at all."

67 Responses so far.

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  1. Kalima says:

    While I was sleeping. 🙄 Is this it? Is this all they have? What a bunch of untrustworthy creeps. I suppose it was too much to expect anything else from these buggers.

    “dashes hopes of gun control advocates looking for debate”

    I disagree with this thought, the NRA don’t govern or make laws in America and the debate needs to go ahead because it’s what more than half of what the American public expect and deserve.

    —-

    NRA chief breaks post-Newtown silence to call for armed guards at schools

    Wayne LaPierre’s statement – twice interrupted by protesters – dashes hopes of gun control advocates looking for debate

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/21/nra-newtown-armed-guards-schools

    • AdLib says:

      Very interesting Kalima. My concern is that in the month or so it will take for Obama to have a bill to present to Congress from the group Biden is heading up, the NRA’s PR blitz and other RW propaganda will have chipped away at the movement to have stronger gun control laws.

      Time will tell, I do think the public is very much turned against the NRA right now and it will be interesting to see if the NRA’s PR campaign whips up greater opposition to them as I hope it will.

      • Kalima says:

        I remember this from yesterday in a CNN poll so the percentage of those wanting major changes in the gun control laws could be much higher, it’s CNN after all. I believe that the public have had enough, and of those polled, no one would change their minds no matter how the NRA decide to play it.

        “52% of Americans favor major restrictions on guns or making all guns illegal, according to a CNN/ORC poll.

        The poll was taken December 17-18, just days after a gunman killed 27 people, including 20 children, in Newtown, Connecticut.

        53% of people polled also say they believe attacks will continue regardless of any action taken”.

  2. monicaangela says:

    Much has been revealed since you wrote this post but, for the most part you are correct in everything you are saying…My question is: Why do we even care what the NRA has to say? Why do we give that lobby any control over conversation, debate, legislation, or anything else that has to do with the safety of the citizens of this nation. The NRA doesn’t now, nor has it ever been an advocate for 2nd Amendment rights, it is a lobby for gun manufacturers and distributors plain and simple…let’s learn how to take them out of the equation..and while we’re at it, let’s take every Senator and Representative that is bowing to their wishes out of the equation..2014 elections should be a start to the process.

    • AdLib says:

      Hi monicaangel, nice to see you.

      The problem is the same plutocratic tar pit our democracy has been stuck in for some time. The gun manufacturing corporations have methodically built up this lobby that mindlessly follows them and will threaten any politician who dares listen to anyone other than gun fanatics.

      The only way we can overcome this is by coming together in such numbers that the one Republican area of reason, that is, doing what it takes to get re-elected, forces them to concede. And that’s still an uphill climb since the NRA has so much money to bribe them to follow their will.

      It can be done but it will be a challenge. And we should accept it.

  3. Westboro Baptist Church to Picket Sandy Hook Elementary

    http://news.yahoo.com/westboro-baptist-church-picket-sandy-174800179.html?bcmt_s=m#ugccmt-container

    These sick fuckers need to be prevented from getting anywhere near these funerals, or the school or the town itself. The 1st amendment allows them to picket, but it would great if law enforcement simply turned a blind eyes, and let the townspeople run these bastards off (preferably with baseball bats and clubs). WBC can’t possible sink any lower.

  4. Kalima says:

    6 Worst Reactions to the Newtown Massacre

    The horror of the massacre in Newtown, Conn. is still fresh, and yet already, there are people out making fools of themselves in its wake.

    It’s not particularly surprising that gun fetishists would be resisting calls to consider — just consider — some reasonable changes in gun safety policies. But that’s not what elevates a reaction to the shootings at Sandy Hook Elementary School to truly reprehensible. No, the men and women who make this list reached it trough a combination of bigotry, cluelessness and an almost pure lack of empathy for those people grieving sons and daughters and parents in Newtown. Here, without further ado, are the six worst reactions to the killings in Newtown.

    http://www.care2.com/causes/6-worst-reactions-to-the-newtown-massacre.html

    • AdLib says:

      Kalima, I think that it will actually make the movement against the haters stronger, the more the haters step into the spotlight. Huckabee has already tried to backpedal but too late. Some thought he might try for the Repub nom in 2016 but this added to his pardon of a cop killer…who used a gun to commit his crimes, is too toxic IMO.

    • bito says:

      Kalima, it really is hard to pick out one that is the most despicable, they are all almost equal in their own way and the more some of the open their mouths they make it easier.

      • Kalima says:

        Yes bito, they are all despicable, and something the majority of us wouldn’t even think, never mind say out loud to anyone. I hope that their words and actions at this time are never forgotten, because they are the dregs of society. A sickness of the soul no pill or shame can cure. When I read them again in one list, I shuddered as if some evil had passed me by, for these people can’t really be human.

  5. Kalima says:

    Breaking: (No link yet)

    “NRA, in its first statement after the Newtown shootings, says it is prepared “to help make sure this never happens again”.

    EDIT:

    Found this from AP. Blah, blah, blah….

    NRA PROMISES TO HELP PREVENT SCHOOL SHOOTINGS

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NRA_SILENCE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-12-18-17-27-15

    Right. 🙄

    LEAKED NRA Members Video: ‘Borderless’


  6. AdLib says:

    Pressured by its investors and a connection to Newtown, CT, a major financial owner of many firearms companies is selling off its interest. If business interests are abandoning the NRA and firearms industry, it sure seems a prime time to pass gun control legislation:

    Cerberus to Sell Freedom Group, a Gunmaker

    The investment firm Cerberus Capital Management announced Tuesday that it would sell its stake in the country’s largest gunmaker after one of the company’s guns was used in the Connecticut school shootings.

    Cerberus said that it was putting the company, Freedom Group, up for sale just hours after one of its largest investors, the California teachers’ pension fund, said it was reviewing its relationship with the firm. Also late Monday, the California treasurer raised concerns about the state’s pension funds’ investments in gun companies.

    Cerberus, a private-equity and hedge fund firm based in New York, is owned by the billionaire financier Stephen A. Feinberg. His father lives in Newtown, Conn., where the shooting rampage occurred. The authorities say that Adam Lanza, the shooter, used a semiautomatic rifle made by Bushmaster, one of Freedom Group’s brands, to kill 26 people at Sandy Hook Elementary School, as well as his mother and himself.

    http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/cerberus-to-sell-gunmaker-freedom-group/

  7. bito says:

    ‏@Shoq

    Forcing every Fox News watcher to get a mental health exam will stop a lot more senseless slaughters than an ammo ban will. #p2

    • AdLib says:

      How about also regulating the amount of hate ammo Fox News can load into its broadcasting?

      • bito says:

        If you notice the RW is up to their trickery, well they think it’s a trick, of taking only one “suggested solution at a time at a time and addressing it. They seem to be unable to take 2-4-6 6-8-9…. different parts from different suggested bills to come up with a smart, workable, comprehensive bill. They would rather dismiss one at time and say it’s not doable.

        • AdLib says:

          Bito, just like with the fiscal cliff, the Repubs want to stall and smother what they don’t want but don’t have the leverage to force a piecemeal approach. If a modest and practical bill addressing magazine size, gun show background checks and banning assault weapons comes over from the Senate, they can’t really afford to vote against it, making the excuse that they only want one thing addressed at a time.

          After the beating they’re taking and having to fold on the fiscal cliff, opposing the American people on making their 6 year olds safer from being shot just doesn’t seem to be a winning hand.

  8. agrippa says:

    Congress may do something; such as re instate the assault weapons ban. I think that Congress will be doing well if it does that much. Some states may take action. But, I am not optimistic.

    What people in our society can do is to move away from wanting to own firearms. I have the legal right to own a weapon, but I decide not to own one. We should move away from the idea that we ought to have a weapon.

    I expect that public places will try to have increased security.

    • AdLib says:

      agrippa, I don’t think an assault weapon ban is enough but I will take it. I would like to see the gun magazine limitation and a mandatory background check for purchases at gun shows…where 40% of handguns are sold in the US.

      Ironically, some people’s reaction to this might be to buy a gun but I think many are now disgusted by the idea of owning guns and fearful about them being kept in homes where mentally ill children or adults can get their hands on them.

      • Ad, I think we will be fortunate to even get an assault weapons ban. This is how deep our gun culture goes, and how powerful the NRA lobbyists are. Sad, isn’t it!

        • AdLib says:

          I don’t know KT, this really seems like it may be the straw that broke the camel’s back. A mass shooting murdering 6 year olds…it seems to have struck a more resonant chord than any of the previous shootings.

          The Repubs could end up blocking any regs but I don’t know that’s politically safe, to vote for more 6 year olds to be shot all out of the paranoid fear of government taking away guns.

          • Ad, I think you may be wrong here. You are a SANE and caring person. The GOPers and gun lobbyists are not.
            The GOP almost always comes down on the wrong side of history. Even after their huge defeat last month, I bet they still think that money trumps all else.

            I hope I am the one who is wrong here. In this case, I would love to be wrong. But I fear I am not.

  9. Kalima says:

    It’s a start.

    Obama faces fierce pressure over gun control as senators call for weapons ban

    Newtown school massacre reignites gun control debate as politicians call for a law ‘to get weapons of war off the streets’

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/16/obama-gun-control-pressure-newtown

    —-

    Connecticut Sandy Hook school shooting: latest

    Latest updates as Barack Obama arrives in Connecticut to meet with families of the victims of the Sandy Hook school shooting.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9748253/Connecticut-school-shooting-live.html

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    Occupy Wall Street poster

  10. Kalima says:

    I signed this petition a few hours ago, just in case you want to join me, here is the link.

    Don’t worry there were quite a few signatures from around the world there as well so didn’t feel out of place. So many are concerned about this kind of senseless mass shooting in the U.S.

    “President Obama: We Need to Talk About Gun Control, TODAY”

    http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/546/934/954/

    —-

    A Timeline Of Mass Shootings In The US Since Columbine

    http://www.care2.com/causes/a-timeline-of-mass-shootings-in-the-us-since-columbine.html

  11. SallyT says:

    AdLib, it is not too early to talk about gun control, it is too late. Everyday gets us later and later from doing something! More lives lost is too late! If having more guns makes us safer, with all the guns in the United States we should be the safest place on earth. But, we are not such a place. We are not a new country, with no army with weapons to protect us, we no longer need to feed ourselves from our daily kill of animals, nor do we need to protect ourselves from the natives that we are stealing from. This is why our Founding Fathers put it in the constitution. And, those crazies that think we need weapons to protect us from our government, well, get real! The government has drones now! Even semi automatic weapons will not hold off a tank! There is no logic to the 2nd Addendum now as it was originally intended.

    Okay, maybe if you live were there are rattlesnakes and you don’t have a big rock, a pistol might be handy to have!

    • AdLib says:

      Sally, let’s think about this. Did the founders envision a nation where guns were so plentiful that crazy people could get their hands on them and shoot kindergarteners? Is that Original Intent?

      Very glad to see the momentum turning against rampant gun violence but politicians will have to act fast because as with incidents in the past, if you don’t pass a bill wall the momentum is with you, it will quickly dissipate.

  12. I just found out that this kid’s mother was the one who owned the guns. Why in the world, would a kindergarten teacher need an assault rifle and two semi-auto handguns? I’m not blaming her for what her lunatic son did, but man, it just doesn’t make sense for a kindergarten teacher to have massive firepower.

    • Nirek says:

      KT, nobody needs an automatic weapon or a hand gun that holds many rounds. Those are military type weapons and should NOT be available to just anyone.

    • kesmarn says:

      KT, do you know anything about the father in this family? Could the guns have belonged to him? The older brother?

      • SallyT says:

        Kes, it is my understanding that they are upper middle class. The father and mother are divorced. He is in the financial industry as well as the older son. The older son said that he had not been in touch with his brother for nearly 2 years. The guns apparently were registered to the mother. I don’t know why she would have them nor can I understand it.

      • No kes, I know nothing at all, so far, about the father. I do get the impression that he did not live with this kid and his mother. I don’t know the accuracy of the report, but it said the guns were registered to the mother and she obtained them legally.

        Right now it’s difficult to get the facts in order. There always conflicting reports in the immediate aftermath of such a horrible incident as this.

        • Nirek says:

          KT, being legally obtained punches a big hole in the NRA argument that criminals obtain their guns illegally.

        • kesmarn says:

          Wow…they were registered to her? Strange.

          I did learn via ABC’s live updates that she apparently was a teacher’s aide, not a teacher there. And that she was shot at home, following which Adam apparently then went to the school and continued with the shooting rampage.

          You’re right. It takes a long time to sort things out.

  13. funksands says:

    We have 300 million Americans and 300 million guns. A gun for every man, woman and child in America. Even if our laws, policy, and populace were rational, with our nation awash in weapons, many people will die simply due to odds.

    Anyone can get a weapon easily. Near-military grade.

    With the skids greased by the conservative entertainment complex and in local/state/ and federal govt. to keep a population armed, angry, and fearful this horrifying scene will happen again and again and again.

    • AdLib says:

      Funk, I used to have a problem understanding why the NRA and Repubs would want to bring such insanity to American society…then I was enlightened here at The Planet that it is of course, all about greed, the greed of the gun manufacturers.

      Like cigarette corporations, they are 100% immoral when it comes to the impact of what they make on those who buy them…and those around them. It’s just about hooking people on your product and getting them to buy more.

      For the gun industry, there will never be “too many” guns even if every man woman and child in the country had 100 guns.

      Cigarettes were regulated because of the eventual way they killed innocent people. Guns only have the purpose of killing, surely we can regulate them.

      Or is the murder of innocent children and adults a fair price to pay for upholding the “right” of mentally imbalanced people to own and use guns?

    • SallyT says:

      Funk, if as they say, we had more guns the safer we will be were true with all the guns we have in the United States under this logic we should be the safest place on earth. Their logic is shot to the moon! Pun intended.

  14. Kalima says:

    I woke up to this senseless tragedy, and agree 100% that your second amendment is outdated. Laws must change, there has to be stricter gun control, and all assault weapons must be banned. The NRA has so much blood on their hands, and any politician in their corner should also be held responsible. The time to change the law is now while people are still reeling because some nutjob decides to kill his mother and 20 innocent children in their school. You all know as well as I do, that this won’t stop until something concrete changes. My heart goes out to all the victims and their families at a time when many of those killed should have been looking forward to the coming holiday season, and those who witnessed this will have their young lives changed forever.

    As you say AdLib, the time to do something is now, and I can think of no better person to tackle this than President Obama and the voices of outrage from the American people.

    I’m glad I’ve lived in three countries that banned guns for private citizens, but I worry about all of you and your families and friends. I worry about America, and about how many more have to die before something is done. When is enough, enough?

    • AdLib says:

      Kalima, is this isn’t an “enough is enough” moment, it is quite frightening how horrible a massacre would have to happen otherwise.

      You’re so right, Obama having won re-election and not looking over his shoulder at the NRA is really the best opportunity for something really getting done. We do need Congress though and having seen how unapologetic the Repubs have been about harming the 98% to benefit the 2%, I can’t say I’m optimistic that any gun control laws will get passed.

      The Repubs will likely drag out all the old BS excuses for not taking action including, “We have enough gun laws, we just need to enforce them.”

      No, There is no law mandating a background check on people who buy guns at gun shows. As I mentioned, 40% of guns are sold that way. That needs to be changed. Ammunition needs to be regulated since that is not Constitutionally protected. And gun magazines need to be made smaller.

      Though I’m not confident about Congress wanting to act, the public pressure could make that moot.

      • Kalima says:

        Then it’s up to the American people to put pressure on Congress to change the gun laws, and in doing so they will expose those Republicans who support the NRA blindly, for the enablers of mass murders that they really are. If enough people make a noise about it, and continue to do so, maybe a few of those Repubs could be shamed into doing the right thing. If not, this is an issue that should stay in the forefront until someone has the integrity to do something about it permanently. I would post pictures of everyone in Congress who opposes any change to your gun laws, with the caption, “These are the faces of the politicians and NRA enablers, who don’t care if your children or family members are murdered with guns”.

        I started blogging in June of 2007, and can’t even count the number of times mass killings have been not only in your national news, but international news too. The question most asked is, why don’t they do something about their gun laws?

        For us watching from afar, the fact that there are so many guns in circulation, and that it is still too easy for anyone to buy one, is just jaw-dropping, we just don’t understand it.

        President Obama really has nothing to lose, these gun nuts already believe the RW propaganda that he is coming for their guns, and the crazies don’t like him for their own reasons. He would be the best man to pressure Congress, and point a finger at those who oppose a safer America for this generation, and the generations to come. It is the right time to start this conversation. It has been the right time for many years before now. It won’t be easy, nothing worthwhile ever is, but remember that every journey starts with that first step.

  15. Nirek says:

    Killing children in a grammar school is so senseless. There is no need for guns to be so available for people who are disturbed.
    Seems to me that guns in the hands of ignorant or disturbed or mentally ill or criminals are the cause of these shootings. I wonder how well background checks work? How many guns are out there? How a crook would get a gun? (stolen probably) So what can we do to eliminate this kind of thing?

  16. bito says:

    Excellent AdLib, to have all these so called “studies” and to have them in one place. Not recently in Mother Jones, I believe, that some many of these “facts” that the NRA leadership say they must uphold, the membership disavowed and disagreed with, this like background checks on all gun sales and at shows in particular. The only ones against sensible gun laws is the leadership of the NRA, the ones making million dollar salaries and are able to issue political threats, the greed and envy for power. Oh Mr. LaPirerrie(sp) must have some really small feet with all the lust and envy for power he seems to have, he must be replacing something in his life with all the envy he has.
    And here is one of the problems for us and a solution for him. He knows that President’s come and go as do all other politicians but with his power he stays in his office and issues threatning edicts to those that disagree with him.

    Three Presidents, Three Addresses To The Nation On School Shootings

    Bill Clinton’s Statement on Columbine Shooting 1999

    Statement President George W. Bush on the VI- Tech Massacre


    Connecticut School Shooting: President Obama’s Emotional Statement

    • AdLib says:

      Bito, thanks for the perspective of three Presidents decrying gun violence…while the NRA continues to make guns more available and Stand Your Ground laws more prolific.

      La Pierre and his ilk are soulless, greed-driven creatures. They are mercenary about flooding the nation with guns purely to profit the gun corporations and himself, through his high salary in his position.

      They are corporate terrorists, aiding and abetting killers of all kinds, from angered workers to mass murderers. They are the enemy of the American people and I do not exaggerate. Fighting against preventing guns from being sold to murderers and even Al Qaeda members? They are traitors to the nation.

  17. kesmarn says:

    Well said, AdLib.

    Here’s an article that contains a vid of Jon Stewart addressing the same issue: if not now, when?

    http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/12/14/jon-stewart-answers-those-who-say-now-is-not-the-time-to-talk-about-gun-control-video/

    Stewart — just as you did — really nailed it.

    Later addition: I really shouldn’t even have looked at facebook today because the predictably asinine comments are already gushing from the right. The two that appeared first were:

    1. Other countries have problems like this. This is not a uniquely American problem. (Translation: Don’t blame our gun culture for this. It happens everywhere.)

    2. If people really want to kill, they’ll find ways. They’ll use bombs or whatever else they can get their hands on. (What? Is the “logic” of this supposed to be: If you can’t eliminate ALL methods of killing, don’t try to eliminate ANY of them?)

    People like this are basically just using the age-old dodge of changing the subject. They’d like us all to talk about Norway and Anders Breivik. Or anything else but the gun and anger problems we have here in this country right now.

    Or they’d like us to talk about how OJ killed Nicole with a knife. Anything other than challenging the NRA.

    • AdLib says:

      Kes, these two lame excuses are those of ignorant people who need to force reality to fit their delusion.

      First, no, no other industrialized countries that have strong gun laws have anywhere close to the murders the US has due to guns. That is a fact.

      Second, it would be a justification to steal, kill or rape to say, “Well, it was going to happen anyway.”

      No. It takes the motivation of a person AND the ability to do it. Would a 20 year old without a gun be able to overpower all the adult teachers in a school and then kill 26 people as easily and quickly as he did? Of course not.

      In fact, guns turn otherwise weak or incapable people into mass murderers. Guns kill. Guns empower those who would otherwise be unable to kill. The push button nature of killing that a gun offers is what makes murders more plentiful.

      The people who use such desperate excuses are actually avoiding logic so what they say is naturally devoid of logic. I mean, saying that OJ killed Nicole Simpson with a knife so mass murderers would have still killed many people in public with a knife is just plain stupid.

    • bito says:

      k’es, it is both half way expected and very surprising, some of the comments. I do expect them to say something and remark/be a little shocked at the age of the victims or where it happened….something, but nothing seems to bother them, they go right into their normal excuses for the shooting, with their S*IT happens attitude. Why do I think that many of these people are hiding behind their anonymity of the web and really are the biggest chicken S*it’s on the web?

      • kesmarn says:

        B’ito, some of them will pay lip service to the fact that this is a “tragedy” or some such words, before they launch into their FOX-supplied talking points. But as you say, it just seems superficial and glib.

        It’s an awful thing to say, but I wonder if losing one of their own children in a situation like this is the only way the depth of the problem would ever dawn on them. Sometimes it seems that the only traumas that are real to them are their own. But I wouldn’t wish this on anyone.

  18. SueInCa says:

    “The [Toronto Police] chief said 30 per cent of the handguns seized in Toronto have been stolen or otherwise diverted from the hands of legitimate gun owners. […] The other 70 per cent of guns seized are smuggled in from the United States.” (Toronto Star, June 15, 2012)

    From Occupy Poster:

    “How did a well regulated militia get twisted to mean a well armed unregulated populace?”

    Not only that but we are arming our neighbors to the north and south. This gun culture has to be brought under some kind of control. I am not anti-gun but dang if I go to a gun show, I want a background check. The guy standing next to me could be a representative of the Cartel, one of many gangs or a crazy person who can maintain long enough to buy an AR-15 fully automatic machine gun or a 9mm Glock semi-automatic. Both are for harm in the hands of people who have no conscience. Heck evn me, with my self protection reasons, has people who either could happen upon that gun, or want it specifically. To me it is just better to leave the gun in the hands of the supplier. When Americans stop buying guns, the gun producers will have to look elsewhere.

    We keep on saying such a senseless tragedy but nothing happens in the aftermath. It is time to say no and fight the gun suppliers as hard as the Koch brothers are fought and exposed

    • AdLib says:

      Sue, let’s look at the specific wording of the 2nd Amendment:

      A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

      There is a very clear qualifier to the right of the people bearing arms, that they are part of a WELL REGULATED MILITIA.

      It is a perversion of the 2nd Amendment to state that it gives every individual a right to bear arms without any regulation.

      And what about intent? Clearly the intent was to have people armed as a militia to protect the country from those who may pose a threat. The availability of guns to anyone who could pose a threat sure would seem to be violating the intent of the 2nd Amendment.

      But of course, the NRA and there pawns only care about the second half of the amendment that allows them to argue for more and more guns. Who disrespects the 2nd Amendment in entirety more than the gun lobby?


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