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AdLib On November - 17 - 2011

Have you ever known someone for a while and gotten along with them wonderfully until that one topic came up and they snapped? Maybe the hidden trigger was connected to race, political party, antisemitism, religious beliefs, provincialism or chauvinism, whatever it was, the person you thought you knew was shed like a second skin and a cold, hostile  person was exposed to be underneath?

If you’ve experienced that, you may have naturally asked yourself, “Was he/she always like this and I just never recognized it?”

We learn from our earliest years that our democratic government in America is a representative and altruistic one. We’re taught that our local governments and politicians are responsive to the community and care about the welfare of the majority.

It’s easy to be “a good guy” when there’s no cost to being one. The true reveal of one’s character comes when there is a challenge or risk to holding onto one’s principles and values. Those who swiftly discard their ethics and morals to protect or benefit themselves were merely putting on a show, to look principled to themselves and others, as a matter of ego or profit, not conviction.

If this week’s coordinated evictions and attacks on peaceful protesters in over a dozen U.S. cities by mayors and police chiefs reveal anything, it is the shattering revelation that in the United States, the highest priority that Republicans, Democrats and Independents in positions of political power can all agree on, is keeping that power in their hands and the hands of the business community who finance their campaigns and offer them lucrative jobs after leaving office.

This is reality. This is America. All of these mayors and police chiefs dishonestly and like cowards, hid behind exaggerated propaganda to justify their attempts to crush legitimate and indisputable complaints about our society and how it works…or doesn’t work for 99% of Americans. And the MSM was all to happy to lend a hand (including allegedly Progressive MSNBC) as they repeatedly echoed the memes that OWS had become rife with health issues, sexual attacks, violence, drug use, anarchists, etc.

You see, the police are protecting and serving the citizens of their city by pepper-spraying elderly and pregnant women,  punching and throwing to the ground young people who are merely protesting peacefully, destroying the personal property of hundreds of people, arresting journalists for just doing their 1st Amendment protected job and reporting.

A perfect example of the MSM propaganda, supporting this government campaign against the people, was again repeated this morning by the corporate product Alex Wagner on MSNBC, it went something like this, “The OWS protests have turned violent, several police were injured.”

Now, if OWS was Occupy Police Stations and police were injured, I might be able to buy this line which instead is an Orwellian twist on reality. However, we have all seen plenty of video and injuries delivered to protesters by police. And yet, the spin on thousands of American citizens being attacked by their own police forces is that violence is being committed by the protesters against police.

It’s an outrage, we are being told, that the police who are spraying mace into the eyes of women they’ve trapped on a sidewalk, beating young men who they’re holding down on the ground or shooting flash bang grenades into the heads of Iraq vets, would ever get hurt during their attacks on peaceful citizens. And I would suggest that such claims of police being hurt are exaggerated or false in most cases anyway, just part of the propaganda. In most cases, they have assault gear on including helmets and body armor, they’re wielding batons and guns…and scores of people injured due to their actions are of no note but a cop bruises his fist on a protester’s ribs and it is only the cop who has been injured.

OWS have never beaten police, never sprayed them in the face with mace or shot rubber bullets at them. And yet THEY are accused of being violent towards the kindly police? Where is the MSM in questioning the use of undue force by mayors and police against peaceful protesters? I have yet to see any instance of OWS protests that constituted an immediate danger to the public or police. Is it The American Way to assault groups of Americans who peacefully protest injustice? Bottom line, why are we not hearing a debate over using overwhelming force to stop Americans from peacefully protesting? What legitimate and moral right does a mayor or police chief have to assault citizens for protesting? And don’t give us the convenient “health” and “safety” BS that you hide behind, explain to the American People why it’s appropriate to assault them for protesting against their government?

If the issues of health and safety are so paramount to these mayors, there are people living in far more unhealthy conditions in Oakland, NY, etc. and we have never seen these mayors send police in to clean up their neighborhoods. There are incidents of violence, sexual assaults and killings that are far too common in many parts of New York,  we don’t see Bloomberg sending in the police to evict people in those neighborhoods.

Only those protesting the system Bloomberg is a big part of are those deserving of assaults by Bloomberg’s police force (Bloomberg is the 14th wealthiest man in America).

The 1% owns, either directly or by proxy, many city governments in America. They have mayors and many cities’ police forces as their army to defend their interests. This is “who” America really is, this is the moment we’ve discovered that the friend we always thought was a nice guy has a very dangerous side. We grew up seeing our government as our friend, our local governments as our closer friends. They have been and can be our friends on many issues and in many areas but there is a doorway they won’t walk through with us, when it comes to the people wanting to regain power from them, politicians of all political stripes join together against The People.

We’re very familiar with how in DC, the 1% have undermined, destroyed or tried to destroy any legislation of programs they could that benefit the 99%. For many, that was where the corruption was concentrated. Then we saw Republican Governors and legislatures in states including Walker in WI, Kasich in OH,  betraying the people to serve the 1%. Now we see mayors from coast to coast ordering assaults on those who have already been assaulted by the 1% for decades.

It’s been said before but recent events would seem to strongly validate it, we are indeed at a key turning point for this nation. Either we come together as a majority to take on the 1% and wrest control of our nation back into our hands or they will become so entrenched, with city police forces doing their bidding, that resistance in the future may become more difficult and dangerous.

The dynamics couldn’t be more stark. 99% of Americans are on a continuing slide towards a worsening future for them and their children while the top 1% own 40% of the nation’s wealth, own Washington DC and own many of our city governments and through them, police forces. The conflict couldn’t be more self-explanational of the America we live in. The 99% being dominated and assaulted by the 1%.

The complaints that come from regular Americans about OWS seem, IMO, incredibly narrow minded, short sighted and selfish. Yes, the protests are an imposition on some businesses, workers and residents but those who lack the concept of an individual making a minor sacrifice for the greater good of the many is unworthy of sympathy. The American people have grown accustomed to not having to make sacrifices to preserve their rights and their democracy, many see it as an outrage for them to sacrifice anything for this country. It’s offensive, when we consider how much so many young Americans have sacrificed in Iraq and Afghanistan in the name of defending this country and its freedoms while people who get stuck in traffic due to an OWS protest or march get furious about how much they’re suffering (and some of those vets are in those protests!).

The 1% has encouraged and promoted their values of selfishness and small-mindedness over many decades. They’ve impressed on the American People that “You can have it all!”, “You’ll be rich one day too!”, “Spoil yourself, you deserve it!” and fostered a generation that in return sanctioned the 1% to “have it all” while the people were pacified and distracted as they indulged in a temporary binge of self-gratification.

Those days are long gone. As hard as it is to hear this for many people, no, you can’t have it all and you never will. No, you won’t be wealthy one day. No, you shouldn’t and can’t spoil yourself anymore, you should’ve left more for the next generation as was left for you, not less. This materialistic delusion that The American Dream became has gone bust and since it was an just a short-term con game anyway, it isn’t coming back.

The 1% won the first major battle of the class war, they control much of the government and wealth in the United States right now. However, as long as there are people who are willing to sacrifice their short term comfort for a better future, there will always be the opportunity for the majority to rise up and re-shape the way things are.

I’ve quoted this phrase before but it bears repeating, “If you don’t know you’re in a fight, you’ve already lost.” Add to that, you need to know who you’re actually fighting. It’s not just the federal government, depending on where you are, it could be your Governor, your state legislature, your mayor or your city council. There are good people out there who are in office, all politicians aren’t the enemies of the people, as the nihilist Baggers might say.

At the same time, it would be naive not to recognize the inordinate power that local and national 1%ers have over many politicians. Such politicians aren’t the enemy, they are the proxies for the enemy of the majority of Americans. Removing them at the ballot box and replacing them with someone who will represent the majority will disconnect the 1%ers from some of their power. There is a way to peacefully and democratically take power back. What it will take is for people to stop looking to a corrupt system of government to serve them or put their welfare first and instead accept that they can only look to each other to build a powerful national movement that serves them.

Occupy Wall Street is the raw, resonant beginning of such a movement. The expectation of it to be a polished, focused movement, like the corporate fraud of the Tea Party, was and is misguided. It is the first incarnation of a movement, the first coalition of ideas and people and an affirmation that we can come together and insist on having the nation and democracy that the majority want.

Of course, occupying parks isn’t an end but it has been a very effective means to an end. The conversation in this nation has turned to that of income inequity and the widening gap between the wealth of the 1% vs. the 99%. It has also been galvanizing Americans all across the country to come together even though the key issues they individually care about may be diverse. In recognizing the domination of the many by the wealthy few, all of these people have found a commonality to the cause of their various issues,  that is, people not having the power to address problems as the majority wishes.

The Sleeper Has Awakened. The more Bloomberg and other crony mayors try to crush this public uprising, the more power they will give it. The plutocratic nature of today’s America hasn’t been changed by having police attack a peaceful encampment and protests so the destruction it’s doing to Americans hasn’t changed. People who can’t find jobs, are poorly paid, uninsured, can’t afford their home or college for their kids can’t be so quickly, easily and brutally dispersed as OWS. The cause for this uprising isn’t addressed by oppressing protests over it, that won’t make it go away.

There is a reckoning coming, one way or another. Many Americans have hit a breaking point due to corporations and the wealthy squeezing them out of what they once had. Their numbers and the intensity of their situations only grow when the focus is on silencing their protests instead of addressing what they are protesting. The status quo of declining incomes, wealth and standard of living is unsustainable.  If the mindset of politicians is to just protect the status quo, when it goes, they will go down with it (through the democratic process that is).

The road ahead will be a difficult and long one. Those with power and wealth will use all the daunting resources they have to keep all that they have and get more.  It is a strong concern that the future holds greater violence and schemes coming from the 1% to destroy OWS and those demanding a return to an America of, for and by the people. There will be those shills who proclaim the movement dead or irrelevant, there will be more police assaults on peaceful protesters, there will be trumped up charges and accusations against the movement in order to kill the messenger…but the message is far too strong to be defeated in these ways.

Prevailing against such powerful adversaries who threaten most every principle and moral that America represents requires Americans to make sacrifices. They may be sacrifices as small as occasionally getting out of the recliner and getting some fresh air and inspiration by joining a march or protest, volunteering to help a worthy candidate campaign, donating to politicians who represent the interests of the people over corporations,  making phone calls as election day approaches to help Get Out The Vote…the sacrifices needed to steer this nation back on course are not huge but they will be required by the majority to stem the corporate assault on them.

Once we accept that our government can’t be relied on to protect or advance our interests, we can choose either apathy or activism. This is the time to choose. We can sigh, throw in the towel and bury ourselves in entertainment and other distractions or we can aggressively support and spread awareness about what’s going on in this country and grow the numbers of those insisting on economic justice and the reversing the corruption of our democracy. We can support the OWS movement and protests but we don’t have to stop there, we can build on them through action and social networking on a daily basis and each do our part to help to create a real populist tidal wave of change in 2012.

There’s something liberating about finally recognizing you can’t rely on others, it’s empowering when we recognize that the only way to make something happen is to do it ourselves.

OCCUPY UC DAVIS UPDATE

Brutalizing OWS Students with Pepper Spray

Written by AdLib

My motto is, "It is better to have blogged and lost hours of your day, than never to have blogged at all."

379 Responses so far.

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  1. Chernynkaya says:

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  2. choicelady says:

    The one GOOD piece of news, if you can call it that, is that the two UC Davis Campus Police who maced the non-violent protesters were put on leave by the Chancellor.

    For everyone in CA -- there is a place and set of procedures by which you may bring formal complaints against law enforcement. You are supposed to begin with the specific department, but beyond that, since you will likely get little or no response, there is a link at the CA Attorney General’s web site you can use:

    http://ag.ca.gov/consumers/general/government.php

    Scroll down past the first part on contacting the departments including complaints against judges, and you will find the right link to the complaint form -- it’s in English and another in Spanish.

    Don’t blow this off if you were a witness or victim -- it’s important.

    • kesmarn says:

      c’lady, as always, you are a goldmine of helpful and practical info.

      I DO hope those cops are not on PAID leave. Why should they get a free vacation for what they’ve done. I think the woman who’s head of the police dept. there needs to go, too. Her first comment was the predictable: “Hindsight is 20-20…” Not even close to appropriate.

      • bito says:

        In a what sound like a weird way, I hope they are on paid leave. It’s that Union blood I guess but I’m sure that all the officers, both the good ones and these two a**holes, have written work rules if not Union rules. I know, it’s strange, but I used to watch my dad prepare for grievance hearings and have to ‘defend’, represent the Union’s position on the brother’s action.
        I can hear him saying, “this SOB was really wrong, but I’ll see if I can get his time off reduced.”
        I want both these guys to get both criminal and civil charges, but until then, they deserve their ‘day in court” and the work rules followed.

        • kesmarn says:

          You’re a fairer person than I am, b’ito. I have to hand it to you. Maybe the rule should be: if they’re found guilty of wrong-doing, they have to repay what they “earned” during the leave.

          It’s aggravating that this Pike guy — who is too ignorant even to figure out that these kids are defending (among so many other things) his right to be in a union — benefits from more their fairness than he is even remotely capable of dealing out to others.

          But they are — like any other criminals — entitled to representation. 🙁

          • bito says:

            k’es, I wouldn’t say fairer at all, not a bit, but I have seen people get wrongfully accused and intimidated, work rules or not. I saw it happen to young RN’s by “respected” doctors because the RN’s wouldn’t take the blame for their mistakes, lucky for them they had all the bloody charting and paperwork up to snuff and one of the Admins was an RN who fought and protected her RN’s.
            Believe from the video’s these two should never be allowed to ever be in any position of authority, all the way down to a nightwatchman at a closed junkyard--after an investigation.
            “Hold on, let’s give them a trial first, then hang em.”
            Paul Newman in Judge Roy Bean or maybe urban legend? 😉

    • kesmarn says:

      And the MSM never calls them out on their lies, BFF.

      God. What a different country we’d be living in if the election hadn’t been stolen from Kerry.

      👿

      • Emerald1943 says:

        Kes, I can’t help but wonder where we would be if the election hadn’t been stolen from GORE! Never mind Kerry, although he would have done a good job, I think. But at that point, we already had four years of the Village Idiot and a lot of damage had been done!

        It is a shame about the smear that they ran on Kerry! He certainly didn’t deserve to be denigrated like that. I have a lot of respect for him and his anti-war stance. We can thank our good little piggy Rove for the ugly stuff! 🙁

        • SallyT says:

          Em, I worked for Gores campaign and again for Kerry. I was on Hillary’s campaign but when she wasn’t the nomee, I just decided that I wouldn’t campaign for Obama except put signs out and of course vote. He won. So what does that say about me? Maybe I should work on the campaign for the other guys? Ick! Don’t think I could do that!

          • SueInCa says:

            Sally

            When McCain trotted out Palin as his running mate, I immediately texted volunteer to Obama campaign. I, too, worked on Hillary’s campaign. I missed meeting her by one week. She was coming to the campaign hq in Reno and we moved back to CA the week before.

          • Emerald1943 says:

            Sally, OMG! Don’t even go there!! The thought that you could use your amazing intellect and talents for “the other guy” is scary beyond words!

            But please, just vote! We don’t want to take chances, do we??
            LMAO

            • Emerald1943 says:

              Sally, about your toes!! That’s okay, honey! You don’t have to put them in the air! ROTFLMAO

              Now that’s a really scary thought! 🙂

              I did the same thing to Sue a couple of weeks ago…an inadvertent thumbs down. Sh*t happens! 🙂

            • SallyT says:

              Em, thanks for not asking me to take one for the team! Yes, I will vote don’t you worry. Also, when I was clicking into answer you, I accidently hit that darn thumbs down button. You know I would never do that to you! Both my thumbs are up and what the hell, because of the wrong thumbs down, I am going to put all ten of my toes up in to the air, too. I can do that if I am lay flat on my back!

        • kesmarn says:

          Exactly, Em. If I’m not mistaken Rove had bad feelings toward Kerry that went waaay back to when Kerry was the fiery handsome young veteran for peace and Rove was the weird little College Republican.

          • choicelady says:

            You mean he isn’t still the weird little college Republican? Wow -- always thought that was his high point and he just kept going.

            • kesmarn says:

              Now he’s a weird geriatric little Republican, c’lady. And a bad tempered one at that. No redeeming cuteness factor. (Not that he was ever cute to start with.)

          • Emerald1943 says:

            Kes, there are LOTS of people that Rover resents, including McCain. Remember the smear he put on him in South Carolina in 2000?

            If the truth were to be known, I would bet that Rover is jealous of Kerry’s hair!! 🙂

            Rover is definitely “follicularly” challenged!

            • kesmarn says:

              It was the Era of Hair, Khirad. What can I say? 😉

            • Khirad says:

              Looked like a lost member of the Beatles.

            • kesmarn says:

              He was pretty, wasn’t he, Em?

              And, typical Rovian tactic, to take his strong point — his courage — and twist/warp it into something negative he never possessed — the quality of cowardice and disloyalty. True slander.

            • Emerald1943 says:

              Kes, what a beautiful man! I think he was more brave to make those statements to Congress than he was to face the Viet Cong. They definitely didn’t want to hear what he had to say.

            • kesmarn says:

              Em, this must have driven Rove nuts:[img]http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT3s5KgimaMkpCZ-WPx6wiSI-SnRk-egLrsbONeeD4PVdfShJNM[/img]

      • SueInCa says:

        Kes
        that is what we are here for and Twitter is a good tool as well. I am amazed each day the articles I find there to send over to Bito on PlanetPov twitter feed

  3. kesmarn says:

    “The Whole World Is Watching.”

    Unfortunately, sometimes the wrong people around the world are watching the wrong people.

    Egypt justifies Tahrir Square crackdown by citing U.S. police reaction to OWS movement:

    http://gawker.com/5861191/

    • bito says:

      But American police haven’t killed anyone! Indeed! That’s definitely something worth bragging about: so far, cops here have only sent a single person to the hospital with brain damage. U.S.A.! U.S.A.!

      • SallyT says:

        Bito, that one Vet left with brain damage was one too many for me. Let’s hope no more!

      • Emerald1943 says:

        Bito, Wow! They haven’t killed anyone…yet!

        Just how far will the 1% go? I never thought I would see anything like Kent State in my life…but it happened. I worry about this whenever there is a big protest. One “bad apple” cop is all that it would take.

        BTW, has there been any news about the Iraq vet that was hospitalized in Oakland? The last I heard was that he had speech problems, but nothing since then. After seeing that, I don’t think it’s a huge stretch to imagine something dreadful happening in our streets.

      • kesmarn says:

        If I were feeling snarky, b’ito, which I’m afraid I am, I could only answer that comment about their not having killed anyone: “Well, it’s not for lack of trying.”

    • SueInCa says:

      They are feeding off each other. Gaining their strength from eachother in this not so free world

  4. bito says:

    Didn’t someone write a book about this?

    Stu Loeser, a spokesman for New York City’s Mayor Michael Bloomberg, says the best way for reporters to avoid being arrested while covering Occupy Wall Street is to carry a press pass issued by the New York Police Department.

    No problem, sounds simple enough, right?

    But the NYPD isn’t issuing press passes to reporters covering Occupy Wall Street, as we learned when we contacted them Thursday.
    occupy

    “We aren’t issuing press credentials to reporters covering Occupy Wall Street,” said Detective Gina Sarubbi, NYPD’s Deputy Commissioner of Public Information

    Oh there’s more:

    …Detective Sarubbi said that even if the NYPD were issuing press passes to cover the protests, there are no appointments available to get a press pass before January 2012.

    Still want more?

    The NYPD press pass is restricted to reporters who regularly need to cross police lines, say at a fire or a crime scene, according to Loeser. To prove eligibility reporters have to show they have covered spot news – that involves crossing a police line in New York City six times in the past year, according to Loeser.

    [….]

    Wired has been trying to get NYPD press credentials for freelancer Quinn Norton, who is on special assignment to cover the Occupy movement. Even before this week’s arrests, the NYPD made it clear they would not issue her credentials, as she first had to comply with Kafka-esque rules, such as proving she’d already covered six on-the-spot events in New York City — events that you would actually need a press pass to cover.

    So, where are your papers?

    Media Can Avoid NYPD Arrest By Getting Press Pass They Can’t Get

    Having 3 catch 22’s in order to get a NYPD press pass make it a Catch 66?

    • SueInCa says:

      PS Naomi gives some insight in to what the PD was telling protestors to keep them away from the Huffpo event, they were waiting for Governor Cuomo to Mic check him.

    • SueInCa says:

      Bito

      I am a fan of Naomi Wolf and she has experience in getting permits in NYC for protests. Here is her take on the NYPD and her arrest. She was treated much nicer when it was discovered she had attended a Huffpo event and that was why she was down on Hudson Street advising the Occupy folks on their rights.

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/oct/19/naomi-wolf-arrest-occupy-wall-street

      • Emerald1943 says:

        Sue, Naomi was on MSNBC the day after she was arrested but unfortunately, she didn’t give any details.

        This is shocking! This one thing stood out to me…

        “Obviously if DHS now has powers to simply take over a New York City street because of an arrest for peaceable conduct by a middle-aged writer in an evening gown, we have entered a stage of the closing of America, which is a serious departure from our days as a free republic in which municipalities are governed by police forces.”

        This is so scary! I don’t know what’s happening in this country. With things like this happening, as well as the UC Davis debacle, is it any wonder that there are conspiracy theories running rampant on the web?

        • SueInCa says:

          Em
          Hve you read her books? Read this from 2008, it gave me the chills and I could not go to sleep that night. I called my friend in Reno to talk me down.

          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/the-battle-plan-ii-sarah_b_128393.html

          • kesmarn says:

            Excellent article, BFF. By now I think the Rove group has lost interest in Sarah (too unmanageable and self-absorbed to be a good soldier), but the agenda lives on.

            And I’m sure that getting shouted down at that Baltimore event has made the little Dick-tater even more determined to get the Kochian Police State established.

            • Emerald1943 says:

              Kes, as I wrote below, just erase Palin’s name and insert almost any one of the candidates…take your pick. Bachmann, Cain, Newt, or Perry. It really would make no difference. Rover and Cheney would still be hanging out behind the curtains, just like they did during the Village Idiot’s term. IMO, it’s a much bigger agenda than simply having their puppet sitting in the Oval Office.

          • Emerald1943 says:

            Sue, I have read parts of this book but not the entire thing. I do get emails whenever she posts anything on HP.

            This particular article is just as relevant today as it was in September 2008. The plan is the same as it was then. Just take out the name “Palin” and insert any one of the other repub candidates, like Cain for instance.

            “You have to understand how things work in a closing society in order to understand “Palin Power.” A gang or cabal seizes power, usually with an affable, weak figurehead at the fore. Then they will hold elections — but they will make sure that the election will be corrupted and that the next affable, weak figurehead is entirely in their control. Remember, Russia has Presidents; Russia holds elections. Dictators and gangs of thugs all over the world hold elections. It means nothing. When a cabal has seized power you can have elections and even presidents, but you don’t have freedom.”

            This is what worries me about our elections. The repubs are not even trying to hide wnat they are doing. Rove is just as involved as ever. Voter suppression, redistribution of electoral votes, rigged electronic voting machines, and good little troopers like Kathryn Harris make a mockery out of our elections. It is eerie how prescient Naomi Wolf is! There’s no doubt in my mind that if the repubs get the White House back, we will see a police state, at least when it comes to protests. Rove and Cheney would like nothing better! We are watching what she calls a “closing society”! With the police brutality toward OWS, what else can we call it?

            • SueInCa says:

              Exactly Em. Some people try to take her literally but I can see you read between the lines. Good for you.

          • bito says:

            Naomi Klein -- The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism

            Naomi Klein -- The Shock Doctrine -- Part 1 of 6

            • SueInCa says:

              Bito
              I read this when she first released it, but she is Klein not Wolf. I used to get them mixed up when I first heard of Naomi Wolf too.

    • AlphaBitch says:

      Maybe it’s a 9-9-9.

  5. kesmarn says:

    Karl Rove to Occupy Baltimore: “If you believe in the right to free speech, you’ll demonstrate it by sitting down and shutting up!”

    Baby Karl throws a tantrum when Tea Party tactics interrupt his hate-rant:
    http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/11/16/369694/occupy-baltimore-karl-rove/

    • SueInCa says:

      Hey BFF good to see you here. I keep missing you which must mean you have been working long shifts. I hope you are taking care of Kes and get as much rest as you can. I feel guilty because I don;t have to work anymore lol. But I put in some 60 hour weeks in my time.

      • kesmarn says:

        BFF, I don’t doubt it a bit that you put in those 60 hour weeks! You enjoy every bit of that well-earned retirement!

        Got the second half of the evening off “on-call”, but it’s now too late for ’em to call me in. Yay!

        • SueInCa says:

          LOL my cousin is the same way. She loves being on call and not getting called in lol

          • kesmarn says:

            Here ya go, Sally!

            [img]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQYq9JcRTNmtwb3U2IFqFVdEh_5k6thrFRGkTbjoXb7AlbWUqsd[/img]

            OOPS…

            • kesmarn says:

              Good point, Sally. Why bother to put on the hoodie, if you’re gonna skip the pants?

            • SallyT says:

              Kes, those are about all I can handle! I love a guy with a belly and no pants!

          • kesmarn says:

            Sometimes the degree of my laziness surprises even me, BFF. 😆

            • SallyT says:

              Hey, Kes, just the girls? Bring out the Chippendales!

            • kesmarn says:

              BFF! Yaaay!

              I’m looking forward to it!

              Say, is it girl’s night on the Planet? Are the boys all playing poker in the back room? Or is there some sort of important game on TV right now?

            • SueInCa says:

              BFF I am going to do it. Look for it in the coming week when you are not busy taking care of people who need you.

            • kesmarn says:

              BFF, I meant to add: please DO follow up with another story on your fraud investigations. I love those!

            • SueInCa says:

              No problem mi amiga

            • kesmarn says:

              Wow, BFF! Thanks for making me look so smart! 😆

              And, thanks to my senility, I had totally forgotten I said that! 😆

            • SueInCa says:

              Kes
              You are a woman ahead of your time. I was reading an old post I did because I am considering writing another on fraud invetigations and I found this quote from you in the comments:

              “I’m sure it was no surprise to you that Mr. Schnitkoff believed so whole-heartedly that he had been victimized by you!! It really is so exactly the way the ultra-wealthy in the current political climate love to portray themselves, as victims of class-warfare-obsessed Progressives. The perp as victim. A classic.”

              You were using the term class warfare before it became popular lol.

    • Emerald1943 says:

      Kes, Little Piggy Karl’s temper tantrum actually made it to the small screen! MSNBC played the clip! It was great! I was so proud of the Occupy people who wouldn’t let him stand up there and spew his hate! God, I simply cannot stand that despicable man! After all, we can thank HIM for the Village Idiot!

    • Breakfast at McDonalds-- $5.00

      A new pair of Levis--$30.00

      Watching Karl Rove’s head explode--PRICELESS!

      • SueInCa says:

        KT
        Where do you buy your levis lol I get them on sale for 30 bucks

      • kesmarn says:

        KT and AB, I think Rove really prides himself on being sneeringly detached and always under control, so seeing him completely lose it like that is a big batch of schadenfreude to me. I’ll bet he was thinking about that for the rest of the night.

        Good.

        • AlphaBitch says:

          Hiya Kes! Keep missing you, and have to run and feed the boys now. Pup is wandering the hall, looking for food…..

          We’ll catch up soon. Thanks for all your sweet comments -- I DO see them when I get a minute.

          xo AB

          • kesmarn says:

            Go feed that hungry Pup, AB! Kids that age seem to need about 15,000 calories a day and even then, they never gain weight.

            Ah, “yout'”!

      • AlphaBitch says:

        Cuidado, amigo! Rove’s exploding Porky Pig head is gonna make a lot of spam.

  6. SueInCa says:

    Murph

    When I read a piece such as this, I always go back to my viewing of Orwell Rolls in his Grave. I am sure people here get tired of hearing it from me but that movie was prescient in that they not only exposed behavior from the past and present, but the future as well. Since I watched that movie, I very seldom take anything heard from the media at face value.

    I have no illusions that our government is working in the best interests of the many and even believe to a certain extent ANYONE in government is usually going to favor the few over the many. In the history of the world or just in our nation alone, when the few are called out, they almost always respond in this manner. Why? Because they can, they have the power. That is why it is so important that the Occupy movement is supported by people all over the world. The FEW are going to do their dirty work and try to marginalize them as “anarchists”, “drug addicts”, “convicts” anything to stop them. I think we have all witnessed them at their WORST and know they will stop at nothing to keep what they have. If they have to use Police to do it, so be it. Once the masses are subdued they can start the process of brainwashing all over again, ANYTHING TO KEEP WHAT THEY HAVE.

    • Emerald1943 says:

      Hi Murph! Your comment is spot on! I’m probably a little more cynical than you though. I do believe that some in our government are NOT working in the best interests of the “many”. I do believe that some of those in power will stop at nothing to keep that power, even if it means doing something completely reprehensible, like cutting benefits to the sick, the poor, and the elderly. I would love to be wrong about this but I’ve lost faith.

      In the past couple of weeks, we have seen such an increase in the attacks, both verbal and physical, on the Occupy people. If they are attacking this hard and with this much vitriol, then we must be scaring them to death! It’s almost funny to hear the RW’s using virtually the same words…”dirty hippies”, “drug addicts”, “lice infested”, etc. They’ve obviously received their talking points from Rove and his cronies. I hope that the majority of Americans will see through the tripe that they put out. Anyone who watches the protests on TV knows that the school teachers are certainly not “lice infested”! 🙂

      • SueInCa says:

        He Em
        That was my comment lol. I must have worded it wrong because I meant working for the few, not the many too. My guess is none of them are lice infected unless it is the homeless. I think the “occupy” part of it could have been managed better, you know having sign ups for people coming into the tent cities but then it would have not been truly 99% would it? They, above most others, have truly not been helped by the government or the 1%

        • Emerald1943 says:

          Hey Sue, I think I might have misread Murph’s comment…the part about “having no illusions”. I thought he meant that in general, the government WAS working for the “many”. My bad! 🙂

          As far as Occupy is concerned, the “organic” approach does have its drawbacks. But I understand that pepper spray does wonders for lice! 🙂

  7. AlphaBitch says:

    Watching the chancellor do the “perp walk” kindled the soundtrack that runs through my mind when I encounter such shocking actions/reactions. Sorry this is not on the music thread, but it seemed bit more fitting here -- “Hard Times, Come Again No More”. Especially the line about “although their voices be silent, their pleading seems to say…..”

    With that, this is for you, UC Davis students, because of what you encountered Friday, and you OWS, who are being targeted for having a voice, and all those (including my “kids”) who have to struggle so hard. It is my prayer.


    • AlphaBitch says:

      Thankee kindly to those who responded. I’ve had my first quiet weekend in over a month, and the music is always in my head. I loved getting to share it with you guys; made it more special.

    • SueInCa says:

      AB

      What a sweet song, sad to think what it represents, but a sweet song nonetheless. Thanks for sharing it. I only hope someday, Hard Times will come no more.

    • SallyT says:

      Very nice, AB. Very nice.

    • Chernynkaya says:

      AB-- that did the trick--I teared up. It’s a prayer. For me, it is also a more personal prayer, for my son as well as his entire generation. I’ve had my moment. His time doesn’t look as promising.

      • AlphaBitch says:

        And Amen to that, Cher. I pray for your son as well, for each young person tasked with trying to untangle this mess of deceit and lies that are being cast. Know he will be in my heart also, from now on.

      • SallyT says:

        You know, Cher, I have found I have a lot of faith in my grandchildrens times to come. Yes, they are going to have somethings tougher but they aren’t as bogged down with race, gender, or sexual origin as our generation and our parents generation was. They just need to get those old farts out of the way that still have those hangups so they can spend time on more important things. But, it doesn’t look like it is going to be easy for them. Hope I can stay around to watch them for as long as I can and add a hand. You certainly do, Miss Cher, and I am sure your son has noticed!

  8. Chernynkaya says:

    A moment of levity, or at least some gallows humor:

    [img]http://www.tumblr.com/photo/1280/13052986911/7/tumblr_luy8q73ed91qfwqwq[/img]

    [img][/img]

    [img][/img]

    [img][/img]

  9. SallyT says:

    Cher, Portland Police Chief admits he was wrong about the rape victim waiting for 3 hrs because of the protesters accompanying all the police and saying it on TV before he had all the facts. But now he is going to be nice and handle as he discribes below. It will be great if they do!

    http://www.portlandonline.com/police/pbnotify.cfm?&content_id=2621&action=ViewContent

    • Chernynkaya says:

      They always retract their lies when called on them and proven to be lies. And the walk-back appear buried on page 8, if it gets any press at all. So tired of the BS. Oh well, better late than ever I guess.

      • SallyT says:

        I was watching on the live feed to see if the chief was doing as he said in that article above. There was a candlite vidual on the City Hall steps tonight. No police. Was a small crowd and they left at midnight. (It is cold here tonight and wet) Anyway, while the camera guy was walking to his car with the camera going a cop car pulled up beside him and asked how it was going. Was really nice to them. Told them good luck. When he pulled away the camera guy said, “Did you see that? He had our live stream going in his car. They are watching us.” The other guy started to say something and the other guy said, “They can hear us, too.” But the police officer was nice to the guys.

  10. Chernynkaya says:

    Chicago Democratic Convention 1968. It was a turning point in public opinion about the Vietnam War protesters, and after that, the movement became more mainstream:


    It seems like deja vu to me.

    • cher, this is excellent video. Where did you find it?

      • Chernynkaya says:

        KT, I found it on YT. I was thinking about 1968 Convention and sure enough, there were several videos. And yes, I watched that excellent “Berkeley in the Sixties”--HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT!

    • cher, did you watch “Berkeley In The Sixties?” Talk about deja vu.

    • SallyT says:

      Cher, I played the video of UC Davis and then this one for my husband and he said, “Do you see, the kids all look the same. 40 years apart but the kids look the same.”

    • kesmarn says:

      Sadly, Cher, the police are a lot more savvy now, thanks to that little “consulting group” you wrote about earlier. Shirt sleeves, no full body armor? Tear gas canisters that demonstrators could pick up and hurl back into police ranks? People loaded into paddy wagons without having their hands zip-stripped together behind their backs? No more.

      They’ve fine-honed the art of brutality since then.

      • Sadly kes, that is quite true. The establishment knows all about violence.

      • Chernynkaya says:

        Kes, I was struck by that too! But I think there were some national guard troops too--they were wearing gas masks. Savvy, maybe, but certainly more militarized,since the “War on Drugs.” And the fact that everything in the US is labeled a “war”: on drugs, on poverty, on terror--that leads to more militarization, I think. I just saw this:

        “Our Militarized Police Departments
        Testimony before the House Subcommittee on Crime 2007”
        http://reason.com/archives/2007/07/02/our-militarized-police-departm

        Oh man, I am really getting swept up by this, Huh?!

        • kesmarn says:

          There’s big money to be made in armaments, weaponry, no Cher? And if “they” can’t goad the Prez into staying in Iraq or attacking Iran, they have to go to the “domestic market.”

  11. Chernynkaya says:

    “One day after pepper-spraying, UC Davis students silently, peacefully confront Chancellor Katehi”
    http://boingboing.net/2011/11/19/one-day-after-pepper-spraying.html


    In the video above, UC Davis students, silent, with linked arms, confront Chancellor Linda Katehi just one day after the incident. It’s hard to tell exactly how many of them are present, but there they are, a huge crowd. They’re seated in the same cross-legged-on-the-ground position their fellow students were yesterday just before Lt. John Pike pulled out a can of pepper spray and pulled the trigger.

    Note that Katehi remains silent during what looks like her perp walk. She does not acknowledge the presence of the students. And yet, within an hour she was live on CNN explaining away the pepper-spray incident to host Don Lemon, who had to cut her off a few times because her responses were so long-winded.

    More at The Second Alarm blog, from the same guy who shot this video.http://thesecondalarm.wordpress.com/2011/11/20/ucdavis-chancellor-video/

    A pretty remarkable thing just happened. A press conference, scheduled for 2:00pm between the UC Davis Chancellor and police on campus, did not end at 2:30. Instead, a mass of Occupy Davis students and sympathizers mobilized outside, demanding to have their voice heard. After some initial confusion, UC Chancellor Linda Katehi refused to leave the building, attempting to give the media the impression that the students were somehow holding her hostage. A group of highly organized students formed large gap for the chancellor to leave. They chanted “we are peaceful” and “just walk home,” but nothing changed for several hours. Eventually student representatives convinced the chancellor to leave after telling their fellow students to sit down and lock arms.

    ME: Chancellor, do you still feel threatened by the students?
    KATEHI: No.

    One of the students pepper sprayed yesterday, a young man wearing a brown down coat over a tie-dye shirt, said he met with Kotehi and personally showed her a video of pepper spraying attack. Speaking to about a thousand students with the “human mic,” the young man said he personally asked for her resignation.

    More about yesterday’s pepper-spraying videos, from Brian Stelter at the New York Times:
    Some protesters were hospitalized afterward, according to local reports. Ten were arrested. Interviewed at a hospital by a local newspaper, The Davis Enterprise, one of the protesters, Dominic Gutierrez, said that he had been sprayed while trying to shield others.

    “When you protect the things you believe in with your body, it changes you for good. It radicalizes you for good,” he said.

    Boing Boing reader Sarah Messbauer, in the comments for this blog post, writes:

    So proud to say that I was there tonight. The greatest words are those left unspoken, and I sincerely hope Katehi got the message.

    And Boing Boing reader William Fertman, who was also there tonight, sends in the reassuring news that the revolution comes with pizza:

    I was there about an hour and a half before the walk of shame, and at the time, there were maybe 100-200 students there, very respectful and committed to non-violence.

    The gathering outside the building (named, ironically enough, Surge II) occurred because the students assembled to hear the press conference Katehi was to give at 4pm. When it was announced that the conference was press-only, the students quickly organized in protest, demanding to hear her explanations in person.

    At ~4:30, it was announced that the press conference was cancelled. Students were admitted by staff into the building through a back door, and assembled peacefully inside some office space, but outside the studio where the presser was being held.

    There was some chanting and use of the human microphone, but the students remained admirably peaceful and respectful. After demanding the conference be moved to a larger venue so students could witness it, they left the building and re-assembled outside to await Katehi’s exit.

    It was quarter of 6 when I left, and the students had already decided to permit Katehi to leave in silence, and formed a pair of human corridors at both doors of the building. It was an impressive display of maturity and thoughtful protest.

  12. Chernynkaya says:

    NPR (via Associated Press) had a good report of the Davis brutality and some updates. (I checked around best I could and no one else has posted this.)
    Other than what we already know:

    Students, Faculty Call For Resignation

    The UC Davis video images, which were circulated on YouTube and widely elsewhere online, prompted immediate outrage among faculty and students, with the Davis Faculty Association saying in a letter Saturday that Katehi should resign.

    “The Chancellor’s role is to enable open and free inquiry, not to suppress it,” the faculty association said in its letter.

    It called Katehi’s authorization of police force a “gross failure of leadership.”

    At a news conference later on Saturday, Katehi said what the video shows is “sad and really very inappropriate.” The events surrounding the protest have been hard on her personally, but she had no plans to resign, she said.

    “I do not think that I have violated the policies of the institution. I have worked personally very hard to make this campus a safe campus for all,” she said.

    Katehi remained in a media room for more than two hours after the news conference, eventually walking to an SUV past a silent group of students nearly three blocks long, many of them holding up signs calling for her to step down, the Sacramento Bee said.

    The statewide Council of UC Faculty Associations issued a statement Saturday saying “We are outraged that the administrations of UC campuses are using police brutality to suppress dissent, free speech and peaceful assembly.”

    Police Reaction

    Charles J. Kelly, a former Baltimore Police Department lieutenant who wrote the department’s use of force guidelines, said pepper spray is a “compliance tool” that can be used on subjects who do not resist, and is preferable to simply lifting protesters.

    “When you start picking up human bodies, you risk hurting them,” Kelly said. “Bodies don’t have handles on them.”

    After reviewing the video, Kelly said he observed at least two cases of “active resistance” from protesters. In one instance, a woman pulls her arm back from an officer. In the second instance, a protester curls into a ball. Each of those actions could have warranted more force, including baton strikes and pressure-point techniques.

    “What I’m looking at is fairly standard police procedure,” Kelly said.

    Images of police actions have served to galvanize support during the Occupy Wall Street movement, from the clash between protesters and police in Oakland last month that left an Iraq War veteran with serious injuries to more recent skirmishes in New York City, San Diego, Denver and Portland, Ore.

    The forcible Oakland protest eviction, the first of its kind on a large scale, marred the national reputation of the city’s mayor and police department while rallying encampments nationwide beset with their own public safety and sanitation issues.

    Police chiefs and mayors held conference calls to discuss containment strategies in the days after the Oct. 25 Oakland eviction. The use of rubber bullets and tear gas dropped off, though police departments have turned to pepper spray when trying to quell large crowds.

    http://www.npr.org/2011/11/20/142556702/protesters-take-pepper-spray-blast-at-uc-davis?ft=1&f=1001&sc=tw&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    • SallyT says:

      Cher, that chief just makes it sound worst to me. The girl pulled her arm away from the cop so spray her. I am afraid with these chiefs and mayors having excuses for everything, things are going to get bad before they get good.

      • Chernynkaya says:

        Sally, The fact that this is said to be standard procedure is both shocking to me, and not surprising at all. It seems as though is will get much worse, and tragically that will be a turning point. I am posting a video of the 1968 Protests at the Democratic Convention in Chicago--when people saw that, saw the brutality, opinion about the protesters changed positively and the Vietnam War movement went mainstream.

  13. MurphTheSurf3 says:

    Does anyone know what was in the “paintball” rifles being carried by some of the UC Davis police. I am reading that they were just that- paintball….ruins clothing, stings like hell. Others are saying they fire paintballs loaded with mace, or pepper, or ????? I cannot find a definitive source.

    • SallyT says:

      I thought they were those bean bag guns. Shoot those little bags. They have those here in PTLD. But, I don’t know for sure.

    • Murph, those balls are loaded with pepper solution. The same substance that they spray in aerosol form, but it’s inside the same material they use for the balls themselves. They are using high tech versions of paintball guns.

      • MurphTheSurf3 says:

        You confirmed my fears. Those officers were pointing those things right at the faces of the protestors. Thanks for the info. This just keeps getting worse and worse.

  14. MurphTheSurf3 says:

    PEPPER SPRAY NOT THE ONLY THING OWS HAS TO FEAR:
    Chris Hayes on “UP” Exclusive on Boehner Allies Effort
    to Destroy the Movement through Lobbying….READ ON

    =====================================================
    A well-known Washington lobbying firm with links to the financial industry has proposed an $850,000 plan to take on Occupy Wall Street and politicians who might express sympathy for the protests, according to a memo obtained by the MSNBC program “Up w/ Chris Hayes.

    ”The proposal was written on the letterhead of the lobbying firm Clark Lytle Geduldig & Cranford and addressed to one of CLGC’s clients, the American Bankers Association.CLGC’s memo proposes that the ABA pay CLGC $850,000 to conduct “opposition research” on Occupy Wall Street in order to construct “negative narratives” about the protests and allied politicians. The memo also asserts that Democratic victories in 2012 would be detrimental for Wall Street and targets specific races in which it says Wall Street would benefit by electing Republicans instead.

    According to the memo, if Democrats embrace OWS, “This would mean more than just short-term political discomfort for Wall Street. … It has the potential to have very long-lasting political, policy and financial impacts on the companies in the center of the bullseye.”

    HERE IS THE UP REPORT INCLUDING A VIDEO OF HAYES’ REPORT

    http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/736777/gop_lobbying_group_develops_plan_to_take_on_ows_with_%22hit_job%22/#paragraph3

  15. bito says:

    Gingrich to OWS: Get A Job And Take A Bath

    Newt Gingrich, speaking at the Thanksgiving Family Forum, tells Occupy Wall Street to take a bath and get a job.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcwoDXb--h0&feature=youtu.be

    Just like many family Thanksgiving dinners, there’s always the old drunk Uncle, isn’t there?

  16. bito says:

    ❗ This is NOT from the Onion!

    Students allegedly post hamster torture on YouTube

    DAVIS, Calif. -- Two University of California, Davis students were arrested on suspicion of animal cruelty Wednesday, according to campus police and a university spokesman.

    Henry Nguyen, 18, of Oakland and Josue Melendez, 19, of Los Angeles County have been accused of using a cigarette lighter to burn two hamsters, according to university spokesman Andy Fell. One of the hamsters died and the other was treated at the UC Davis veterinary hospital and survived.

    The abuse came to light when a video believed made by Nguyen and Melendez showed the hamsters being tortured, said Lt. John Pike of the UC Davis Police Department.

    [….]

    “It’s very hard to watch,” said Pike. “It’s unfortunate, it’s very disheartening to listen to the extent of … what these young men did to the animals.”

    Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/2010/04/22/20100422youtube-video-students-torture-hamsters.html#ixzz1eCbn2e40

    Pepper spraying non-violent students seems to be acceptable to him, but he gets all squeamish or this U-Tube? Wonder if he has watched the U-Tube of himself and how he treats defenseless humans?

  17. MurphTheSurf3 says:

    It took a lot of badgering, but the short references in a live blog re. all of Occupy re. UC Davis on a back page at HP, turned into a full story on a back page at HP, then into a front page story and then a top of the page story.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/19/uc-davis-police-pepper-spray-students_n_1102728.html

    27000 Comments….My Comment There….

    THE DAY AFTER REFLECTION­S

    There were ELEVEN tents at the UC Davis site. A hazard? A obstructio­n? On a 5500 Acre Campus????

    There are concerns from multiple sources regarding the use of pepper spray. Reports from citizens rights groups cite a “pitiful lack of scientific data” about pepper spray and expresses particular concern with….

    ~~~spraying people in multiple, large stream bursts
    ~~~spraying people directly in their eyes rather than the lower face
    ~~~spraying people who are or will be hog-tied and cannot wipe away pepper spray concentrat­e
    ~~~spraying people with preexistin­g medical conditions or generally fragile health
    ~~~failing to give proper medical care to someone after he or she is sprayed

    ALL OF THIS IS EXACERBATE­D WHEN SMALL FINGER HELD CONTAINERS ARE REPLACED BY JUMBO CANISTERS OR FOUNTAIN SPRAYS.

    Police officers play an important role in society. They are charged with protecting us and maintainin­g law and order. In doing so they are permitted to use appropriat­e levels of force in relationsh­ip to the potential for harm to citizens. Force must be necessary, reasonable and adjusted to fit the circumstan­ces.

    When cops use too much force…or “excessive­” force…with you during an arrest, then it might be time to head to court. That’s exactly what happened with the redwoods protesters in 1997. Court documents from that case make this clear: that the cops in charge could not hide behind the shield of qualified immunity, which protects government actors from liability unless their actions are way out of bounds.

    Court documents at the district, appeal and supreme courts from that case make this clear: the police in charge could not hide behind the shield of qualified immunity, which protects government actors from liability because their actions were out of bounds. The Ninth Circuit held firm, holding that, “it would have been clear to any reasonable officer that the manner in which the officers used the pepper spray was unreasonab­le.”

    Lessons the UC Davis Campus Police need to take to heart.

    • SallyT says:

      Murph!!!! You did it!!!! Way to GO!!!! Do you see how many hits it has, too. I don’t go there anymore because AdLib told me not to but I did just for you! I wanted to get that count up because of your hard work!

      • MurphTheSurf3 says:

        I thank you for your enthusiasm and accept your kudo as one of many who put pressure on HP to do the right thing.

        Knowing what I know of AdLib in my short time, I know this fearless member of our Admin team is not happy with HP but I am also quite sure that AL supports freedom of expression and assembly in the actual and virtual world. So….I thought you might have misinterpreted his very well reasoned critique of HP as a suggestion not to hang out there.

        Then I saw your dialogue with others from the Planet and realized that your statement was tongue in cheek….

        Still, I do appreciate your willingness to visit the Huff whose size and impact alone makes worth our attention and insistence that they engage more fully and deeply.

        Best.

        • Murph, I left HP about 7 months ago, after nearly 4 years of posting there. I gave that site every chance to be what it is advertized to be, or what Arianna says it is, but I have to say, they just aren’t worth the time. Between the over-zealous censorship and “Kardashian,” type coverage, it’s hard to take them seriously. And the heavy handed moderation is just too much to abide. I don’t care how many viewers they have, the message is heavily controlled. True debate is stunted and I get no sense of true freedom of expression. I have stopped by several times since coming here to the Planet, and my feelings and thoughts about that site are always the same. It’s a waste of time and effort.

          • MurphTheSurf3 says:

            Kilgore..your pool analogy is excellent. I belong to a chess club. I get beaten a lot in my class. I would win most of the time if I competed in a different club especially if I dropped down one level. But I would get no better. I get your point.

            There are many who participate in the blogging world who I liken to those who play chess at the entry level, but prefer checkers. They expand their knowledge base very slowly, improve their argumentation one small step at a time, approach research from a narrow perspective and consider really alien perspective very grudgingly…..but are of good will. Throw those folks into a master tournament and they walk away.

            I have been inviting people from other blogs to look over the Planet just as I was invited precisely because it is challenging and demanding. Do I invite everyone, nope, too much for too many.

            • Well, then that is on them. I admire your sense of trying to enlighten others, and it is probably not in vain.
              My motivation is maybe not so altruistic. I have wasted many very productive years of my life, trying to “shut it all out.” So in the time I have left, I really want to expand not only my awareness, but beauty and truth as well. I just don’t get that on those other sites. And, here, I can share what I have learned along the way, without the interruption and cat calls from those who choose to remain willfully ignorant!
              Once again, thank you for your thoughtful reply!

          • SallyT says:

            Well, don’t ever try to post on YAHOO! Talk about crazies! I do read them sometimes but I can’t for long. I don’t mean YAHOO! is crazy, the people posting are. Some people don’t like YAHOO! but I do.

            • Sally, my e-mail account is with Yahoo. Their general site is OK, but I agree with you. The comments there are very childish, hateful and ignorant. I have no time for such trifles.

          • MurphTheSurf3 says:

            Kilgore….I accept every critique of HP and I pass them on in my regular critiques of the site. I hate the trivial news crap on the so called humor pages. The ongoing love of celebrity culture drives me crazy. The moderating which so often fails to stop trolls but thwarts progressives is a source of regular indigestion. And recent breakdowns in some of the basic managerial tools have just added to bile, but….I have the same concerns about Daily Beast and Salon where I also post.

            Frankly, the Planet is the best place of the blogging platforms but it is rarefied environment. Most of those who participate at HP, the Beast and Salon would find the style of engagement here very heavy. While there are many who read the Planet, consider how many actual take part in these conversations. You need to be “in shape” to do it well.

            So, because I know that the big sites (in terms of participation and readership) are often very flawed, I believe that their power to influence others requires my engagement. I also post at Fox and regularly get censored. I do it because I think it needs to be done. In this I might be quixotically tilting at windmills, but I have long identified with the Man from LaMancha.

            As always I appreciate the honest of our interchanges.

            • Murph, thanks for your reply. I think that the “rarefied,” atmosphere here is only a result of giving up the shit in exchange for something far better. I liken it to shooting pool. If you constantly play against those you know you can beat, then what good is that? The trick to learning the game of pool is the same in learning to strengthen a person’s intellect and scope of thought. Play (learn from) those who challenge your thought and scope of awareness. Too often in our society, people take the easy way out and that includes thinking, cognition. Intellect is the same as muscles, they degrade if not used. Challenge one’s self and be stronger for it. The results will be self evident.

        • SallyT says:

          Thanks, Murphy! I really did think it was great that you got them to put it up from the back to the front and I wanted you to know that. You hounded the heck out of them. I don’t care for HP after AOL but sometimes you have to still go there to find something. And, you made them make that a top story. Again, good for you! I can’t stay away too long because I will miss KT. And, about that I am not kidding!!!!

          • MurphTheSurf3 says:

            Sally….again I think there were many pushing HP to do the right things.

            I am arguing with them on a number of fronts. For example I, with a group of other frequent commenters have been critiquing the coverage of Obama for months. We have noticed that their “Obama can do nothing well enough” meme seems to have been modified of late. They have added a number of checks on the system which are helpful.

            Do not stay away. Yours is a value adding presence.

        • SallyT says:

          I guess I should have used a smiley face after the comment and realized that AdLib wasn’t on at the time to get the joke. I am sorry!!!! AdLib never told me I could not go on HP. NEVER! We were kidding around one time with each other! We have even kidded around on VOX with each other about it. I don’t know want more I can say. IT WAS A JOKE! And, anyone that has followed me on here knows I quote from there or post from other sites. Why all this at me I don’t know. This has really hurt my feelings and I am getting too touchy about it now. I thought it was great that you made them put it on the front page and I should have stopped at that. Gee, I have been on here for almost 2yrs! I have shared personal stories! You’d think you would know me. Oh, heck, I’ll just call it a night. And, then I might just get over it and come right back. Sorry again!

          • bito says:

            Sally, Kalima was trying to clear the comment up so that it was not misunderstood by many readers that are not members. Yes, perhaps every member understood you were joking, to the occasional reader, they may not. We were attempting to clarify that it was not Admins position, not a personal poke at you. We all do get a little cluby at times, but remember we have 70,000 readers and we as Admin have to be cautious about how the site is reflected, we all do as members.
            Sorry for any misunderstanding and I hope I clarified our position.

            • Kalima says:

              You are mistaken Sally, I did not have a problem with you on the Music Thread, your words surprised me. I explained my reason for picking that song, to say otherwise is being dishonest. My explanation for choosing that song made you think it was a criticism, that’s not my fault, you interpreted my words even after I had explained them to you. I can’t do more than I did either there or here, I was writing as an admin and co-founder here, and had already apologised in my first comment to you, in case I had it wrong. It’s there if you should want to read it again, if not, there is nothing I can say or do.

            • SallyT says:

              You know, Bito, I did get bother by this and maybe too much but I don’t think so. It came after Kalima had been a little sharp with me on another matter and I felt she had a burr under her saddle for me today. People kid and say things on here in jest all the time. And, people not knowing them would think there was a real fight or haterd going on. But, we know there isn’t. They are not jumped as I felt I have been on this matter. I understand you clearing something up for all the readers. No problem with that. But, sometimes you that are in control might want to approach the matter with more understanding. I think in saying something like, “Hey, Sally, you are kidding right? You know we don’t deny you going to other sites.” Someone made a comment on here the other day that could have been taken completely wrong and your approach was much more gentle in calling them on it. Again, I think Kalima had a problem with me on another post and got a little rough on this one. We have apologized to each other and all is fine. At least it is with me. We all have bad days and things get under our skin more then usual. This has mine day to let it under. I am over it and happy go lucky again! Besides, I am here to stay until you pull the pepper spray. OCCUPY, OCCUPY, OCCUPY!

      • Kalima says:

        Sally just to be clear where we stand here at The Planet, admin has never told any member where they can or cannot go in regard to other sites. The Planet isn’t exclusive for anyone, members can post anywhere they like to. Maybe AdLib just explained what he thought of HP, but he would never go as far as telling someone not to go there. If it was meant tongue-in-cheek, then forgive me, I must have read it wrong.

        • SallyT says:

          Oh, and I meant differently. I spelled it wrong.

        • SallyT says:

          Kalima, you are way out of line on that one. You better go back and read that music thread again. I simple said that people hear songs diffently and that is true. I heard it as a divorced woman and you heard it as friends not being there. And, if you read the comment again that you are answering here, you will see I said how I felt not that you were. Gee, Kalima! You are having some issues tonight but I am not your problem.

        • SallyT says:

          Kalima, for some reason you and I are at odds today. I was KIDDING about that! I asked ADLib once if just looking at the front page of HP meant you gave them credit for a hit. He said it did and I said I would never go there again. AdLib knew I was joking and he made a joke back to me that he would be watching me. Gee, Kalima, I have been here long enough to know I am not grounded from other sites. Heck, I post from other sites all the time!

          • SallyT says:

            Okay, Kalima and Bito, go in and put a smiley face or (Just Kidding) there. AdLib did that for Cher the other night so the comment would come off as a joke and not be misunderstood. Just a suggestion but again your call.

          • Kalima says:

            Sorry Sally, as I said, if I got the wrong end of the stick, forgive me, I’m just very touchy about that subject, and wouldn’t want anyone who is not a member to think that we do that. I’m going to have another coffee, maybe that will help me wake up.

            • Kalima says:

              No need for us to do that Sally, it would take everyone else’s comment along with it, and it’s been explained by you, bito and myself, so no harm done.

            • SallyT says:

              Bito, just delete the comment! It isn’t worth all this! I am not the admin and I don’t want the site to appear bad!

            • Kalima says:

              I’m afraid that we have to be bito, we have over 70, 000 readers worldwide who are not members.

            • bito says:

              Agreed Kalima, we have thousands of readers from around the world, and while Sally may have been joking, we are cautious about how the site is presented to others.
              Touchy Admins ain’t we? 😉

            • SallyT says:

              Humor doesn’t type out well. You have a cup of coffee and I will leave for awhile and maybe check in later. (my husband has agreed to put some shelves up in the pantry and he needs to measure my arm reach and “about that high” isn’t working for him.)

  18. bito says:

    “We was scared, we only had batons, tear gas, riot gear, bullet proof vests and pepper spray and they had all those book-bags and backpacks.

    Spicuzza told the Sacramento Bee (http://bit.ly/sKoP5T ) that police used the pepper spray after they were surrounded. Protesters were warned repeatedly beforehand that force would be used if they didn’t move, she said.

    “There was no way out of that circle,” Spicuzza said. “They were cutting the officers off from their support. It’s a very volatile situation.”

    “And they were both on the grass and blocking the sidewalk by sitting on it! Who knows, some may have been ‘lice infested'”

    I wonder if pepper spray kills lice?

  19. AdLib says:

    Since we don’t want the police brutality returned and we don’t want OWS protesters hurt, how about organizing contributions to pay for the following for each OWS protester to protect against pepper spray and tear gas:

    1. Swim goggles -- $3.95/ea
    [img][/img]

    2. Dust and Particle Respirators -- $ .57/ea
    [img][/img]

    For $5.00 (including tax), you can protect an OWS protester from the brutality of tear gas and pepper spray.

    Then there are the add-ons for protecting against baton beatings:

    3. Bike Helmet -- $13.00 (to protect against baton hits)
    [img][/img]

    4. Thick layers of shirts, sweaters and jackets -- $20.00 and up (to protect against baton hits and the cold)

    [img][/img]

    What do you think?

    • MurphTheSurf3 says:

      BTW…love your Best Dressed Occupier List.

    • MurphTheSurf3 says:

      AL…you will be happy (maybe” to know that the quote I lifted from you last night was at the heart of my scolding of HP note to my contacts which was the forwarded up the line. From a part of a running blog, to its own story, to a front page story, to the top breaking story in a few hours….30,000 comments later.

      • Kalima says:

        Murph, most of us here really don’t give a damn about what HP does or doesn’t do, I thought that we had explained this to you on your first days here. Who do you think their biggest audience is, certainly not Progressives, Liberals or Dems, and it won’t change any opinions of members here who no longer post there.

        Sorry to be so frank, but I’ve heard enough about HP to last me a lifetime. Why get excited about a site that caters to RW and TP trolls?

        • Here here Kalima! Absolutely right on! This site is worlds ahead of whatever HP supposedly stands for. Which to me, seems like $$$$$$$$ and not much else.

        • MurphTheSurf3 says:

          You are welcome to your opinion but you might want to check out the discussion last night on Vox before jumping to a conclusion. There was a healthy, vigorous and long discussion about media coverage of the UC Davis events. The coverage being afforded to the event by the various platforms included HP. Ad Lib, and others, joined in that discussion.

          There is much about HP that bothers me. But I do not agree with your assessment of HP or of its audience as a RW wing/Troll refuge. I do not agree that it should be dismissed as irrelevant. I do not agree that it is not worth my time to consider how that site, the largest of its kind on the internet, can be challenged and exhorted to consider its actions.

          HP was challenged last night and this morning to face up to its failure to cover the UC Davis events. It did….belatedly but fully. I will continue to push HP’s decision makers to realize that the AOL merger appears to have tainted its coverage and diverted its mission. I will continue to object to HP’s unwillingness to intervene when troll-dialogue overtakes thread conversation.

          The test of the openness and freedom of expression in any forum is the acceptance that some will make contributions that you do not like. I suggest you not read mine.

          • bito says:

            HP has been challenged since 2007-8 and if there has been any change, it’s become worse. They continue with their deceptive headlines, quotes out of context, unlinked sources, and ownership control. It’s there to make make cash money for their investors and hedge funds. The whole purpose of the site is clicks, clicks and more clicks. If they think an anti PBO story will garner more clicks, they will run with it. Why did HP and AOL merge? Journalistic integrity? Concern for their readers?

            This discussion has been hashed over many times here, look at our archives, it’s not new. For those that enjoy the site and it’s time well spent, I happy for them. If people want to collect friends, badges, medallions, patches… that is HuffPo, This is PlanetPOV. To spend time evaluating their virtues and faults, and they have both, at PPOV has been done, done and done.
            We are not the enemy of HP, they are what they are, we are PlanetPOV.

            • MurphTheSurf3 says:

              Hi bito- I am sorry this discussion started. I did not intend to initiate such a full- throated discussion. I am very aware that many here have very strong beliefs in regard to AOLHP. I do too.

              But this discussion started with a reference from the Vox discussion last night in which a number of us were pushing out the UC Davis story to media platforms not running it. My effort was to push HP to advance that story…an effort shared by others.

              I wish the discussion had remained limited to that. But I have taken points like those you make here very seriously and to heart. I am advancing them in a number of ways. I will continue to do so, but I will also not initiate a HP based discussion as that seems pointless.

          • KQuark says:

            AOLHP only cares about ad $$$$$ and promotes division (Dem v. Rep, prog v. purist, whatever) using dishonest tactics like salacious headlines, biased “investigations”, group think, guilt by association, anecdotal half truths, etc because this turmoil just means more clicks and giggles for them which again comes full circle to making more ad $$$$$. As an honest voice they are irrelevant.

            Basically Huffington has played a huge part in weaponizing progressive dialogue and now more of the left uses the same dishonest tactics that the right does. Of course not to the same degree but HP has helped the progressive movement migrate from being for worthwhile causes to being against anyone they feel are not lock step with them.

            Of course you are welcome to your opinion but I just don’t see why it’s worth the effort to try and turn around an enterprise that is so corrupted when there are plenty of other alternatives.

            • MurphTheSurf3 says:

              KQuark…I hear you and accept that much of what you say is so. I have put a number of your complaints on the table before. Perhaps no good will come of the efforts of folks like myself and others but given the size of the HP enterprise and its ability to influence popular opinion I think it is worth the effort. There are alternatives, but the 500 pound gorilla is one I find hard to ignore. I blog at Fox pretty regularly…why? what good will it do? Sometimes it is just important to lay down a challenge that says that there are those willing to do so. I mentioned in another post that this is probably my quixotic nature at work.

          • Kalima says:

            I’m admin here, I read all the comments, however for you, when you advertise HP on a site that has been banned from even leaving a single Planetpov link there, I will make an exception and not read yours.

    • Excellent AdLib! It’s unfortunate, but these items are a must for anybody on the front lines of this movement. I feel very strong about this.

    • Chernynkaya says:

      I think it’s a fantastic idea! I was just at a site that sells pepper spray, and I wanted to see what the best remedy is--nothing! Here’s the best they found:

      Removing the Pepper Spray Oil from Your Skin
      Use a solution of 25% “Dawn” (noticed we mentioned a brand name) dishwashing detergent and 75% water. You can probably get away with using less detergent but we have always used this formula. Use cold water and make up at least a gallon because you are going to have to wash the effected area at least 7 to 8 times.

      The whole article should be read by anyone contemplating a protest:
      http://www.pepper-spray-store.com/relatedinfo/antitdote.shtml

  20. Chernynkaya says:

    Petition: Tell UC Davis Chancellor Linda P.B. Katehi to Resign

    http://www.change.org/petitions/uc-davis-chancellor-linda-pb-katehi-resign

  21. Chernynkaya says:

    The Cover-her-ass begins!
    “Chancellor creates task force to review Friday’s incident”

    To this effect, I am forming a task force made of faculty, students and staff to review the events and provide to me a thorough report within 90 days. As part of this, a process will be designed that allows members of the community to express their views on this matter. This report will help inform our policies and processes within the university administration and the Police Department to help us avoid similar outcomes in the future. While the university is trying to ensure the safety and health of all members of our community, we must ensure our strategies to gain compliance are fair and reasonable and do not lead to mistreatment.

    I don’t need 90 days to decide anything: You are fired!

    • bito says:

      Cher, I tweeted this from information you posted:

      The officer who pulled out the pepper spray was Lieutenant John Pike. 530-752-39­89 [email protected]­ucdavis.ed­u

      And it has been retweeted 15+ times just from our tweet! Imagine how much that info has spread and the phone calls and emails that have been made!

      Stop the “pikeing!”

      • Chernynkaya says:

        That’s great, bito! I didn’t think to do that today. This gave me a sad chuckle:
        KagroX David Waldman
        Lt. John Pike of the UC Davis police now leading in Iowa.

    • SallyT says:

      And SPRAYED!

  22. bito says:

    Occupy Portland protesters occupy foreclosed home

    PORTLAND, Ore. — About 15 members of Occupy Portland attempted to occupy a vacant, foreclosed house in Portland, as part of an effort to continue the movement.

    Occupy Portland is in midst of change two days after the city evicted the group from an encampment downtown.

    On Friday afternoon, police broke down the door of the vacant northeast Portland house and threw out the people inside. Two people were arrested, the rest were allowed to grab their belongings and leave.

    Police say the house is owned by Bank of America.

    Demonstrators said they were occupying a bank-owned house. They said they could house 40 people in there, and encouraged others to do the same.

    Occupier Genevier Sullivan says neighbors were OK with the occupiers, but said “rich people” in nearby condominiums called the police.

    http://news.bostonherald.com/news/national/west/view/20111119occupy_portland_protesters_occupy_foreclosed_home/srvc=home&position=recent

    • SallyT says:

      I told you they were going to do it. Hey, I live in the NE, where was this house? I ain’t one of those rich guys in a condo, tho. However, BOA does hold my homeloan……..

      • bito says:

        They- Occupy LSX did it the earlier this week and the NYC GA has been talking about it also for a couple of weeks.
        If the cops and mayors can hold conference calls, it’s OK. If the OWS movement discusses occupying foreclosed homes and buildings in a conference call/emails, they can get prosecuted under RICO.

        • SallyT says:

          Let alone the bank probably took the house without the proper paperwork and didn’t work with the borrower to keep the family in the home.

    • Khirad says:

      I think they’re onto something here.

  23. Chernynkaya says:

    Here’s a pic of three of the students who were arrested at Davis yesterday. Think they’re cowed? Think they’re going away? Me neither.
    [img][/img]

  24. Chernynkaya says:

    “Open Letter to Chancellor Linda P.B. Katehi”

    I am a junior faculty member at UC Davis. I am an Assistant Professor in the Department of English, and I teach in the Program in Critical Theory and in Science & Technology Studies. I have a strong record of research, teaching, and service. I am currently a Board Member of the Davis Faculty Association. I have also taken an active role in supporting the student movement to defend public education on our campus and throughout the UC system. In a word: I am the sort of young faculty member, like many of my colleagues, this campus needs. I am an asset to the University of California at Davis.

    You are not. […]

    What happened next?

    Police used batons to try to push the students apart. Those they could separate, they arrested, kneeling on their bodies and pushing their heads into the ground. Those they could not separate, they pepper-sprayed directly in the face, holding these students as they did so. When students covered their eyes with their clothing, police forced open their mouths and pepper-sprayed down their throats. Several of these students were hospitalized. Others are seriously injured. One of them, forty-five minutes after being pepper-sprayed down his throat, was still coughing up blood.

    This is what happened. You are responsible for it.

    http://bicyclebarricade.wordpress.com/2011/11/19/open-letter-to-chancellor-linda-p-b-katehi/

  25. Chernynkaya says:

    In this 2nd video, look at expression on Lt. Pike’s face around 2:07, as he’s shaking pepper spray can.


  26. Chernynkaya says:

    [img][/img]


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