Watch President Obama live as he speaks today at 10:35 am PDT (1:35 pm EDT) on his proposals for the 2012 budget and long term economic policies.
A helpful hint, to live post without missing any of the speech, open a second window with this page and post in one window while watching the other.
I am really proud of President Obama and was very glad to hear him say the things that I knew he would. He is so good at holding down the BS he could be spouting and comming through at the right time.
Man, I just waded into HP out of curiosity and reading the comments on the Obama speech thread there is like reading comments at Foxnews.com.
I really don’t understand the point of Progressives blogging over there anymore.
Sometimes if I feel like I have something I really need to get off my chest, I will blog there, but as far as spending 6 hours a day or more … ditto. I honestly don’t get it. It’s a cesspool.
Revenge.
I hear you. The comments on the blogs on MSNBC, were just as bad.
AdLib, I don’t know if you, or anyone here remembers, but when I was young, the mosquito spray trucks would come by at night and spray who know what–DDT?–. Some kids-my husband for one, followed behind these trucks thinking they were really cool. It strikes me that a lot of people are following news in a similarly toxic way.
Ad Lib; sorry, I hate misspelling names.
Fc, I don’t see any misspelling. 😉
There should be an EDIT button above your comment reply button, you can edit if you click on it.
AdLib, I think some of them get caught up in the flame wars. Troll slapping or whatever. But they might not see that too much troll slapping dulls the mind. After all, it requires one to wallow in the same muck and mire that the trolls do.
The jury is in, well kinda. Save for the ideological right wing responses the president again hits the mark with his speech and approach today even the more centrist pundits agreed. Almost to a person they said Ryan’s plan is not a serious deficit cutting plan and the president has the only adult response to the long term debt crisis.
http://www.politico.com/arena/
(BTW the arena is one of the worthwhile features on Politico. Most of it is run by right wing hacks.)
I mean should anyone be surprised. C’mon time and time again these right wing lunatics unapologetically favor the rich and want to trample on the poor and now even seniors. Nothing makes this more clear than the budget battle. Now what has yet to be determined is if the so called Democratic base will be behind at least the president’s most progressive part of the plan the tax increases on the rich. Or will we once again see the left get mired down into endless quibbling and let the right win the debate.
Unfortunately the first salvos I hear from Alternet and Krugman are not encouraging. You can always tell when progressives have little to complain about like Krugman did today who said Obama’s plan should be the end point of negotiations. Now I wish I had a nickel for every progressive “free minded” blogger who will outsourse their own opinions to repeat that narrative ad nauseum.
I skimmed Arena, it’s hard to find an impartial party there that doesn’t express what one might expect. I mean, Grover Norquist says, “Obama is on the ropes”? No surprise but it does show how out of touch these RWs are, I think they’re going to get hit as hard in 2012 as Dems got hit in 2010 and never see it coming.
AdLib – I pray you’re right, it makes so much sense to me and then I listen or read the RW blogs and I’m astounded how far apart we are. I can’t believe anyone would believe Ryan’s plan for Medicare will work. I can’t get insurance at my age for pre-existing conditions and they think insurance companies are going to voluntarily insure 80 year olds?
Alternet is good for calling the President House “N” and Uncle Tom. I told them to kiss my a$$ and haven’t been back since.
For some encouragement, I just thought I’d post some of the comments on the President’s speech over at The Maddow Blog –just a sampling of the overwhelming reactions:
(First of 3 pages)
I have a huge pet peeve that the right is fantastic at manipulating…and that is the concept of ‘small business’.
In the United States a small business is defined as a PRIVATE business…it can be a corporation, partnership or sole proprietorship with under 500 employees. AS the entity is PRIVATELY owned the exact amount of that entities revenues, sales and value does NOT have to be publicly disclosed.
ERGO the whole right wing slant about small business is a lie. A small business can have revenues in the millions or even billions of dollars. A small business can have gross profits in the millions of dollars. A small business does not necessarily mean a local business or home based business either.
Contrary to the mime that the right puts forth and which the media is negligent in pointing out…a small business does not equate to a little mom and pop neighborhood operation.
I am so tired of this particular lie, I just want to scream!
http://www.fedaccess.com/what-is-small-business.htm
http://mediamatters.org/research/201009140030
Abby, you forgot to add Hedge Funds to your list of “Small Businesses”, but I guess that could fall under the “billions of dollars” category…
Good catch BDM….I think it does qualify in the billions of dollars category!
So true and those businesses are just a small percentage of real small businesses.
I forget what the figures where perhaps in the 90’s percentage wise but most REAL small businesses don’t fall into the category of making over $250K/year. So the whole meme that raising taxes on the rich will hurt small businesses is a complete fabrication.
Abby, I agree about the use of the manipulating of the “small Business” term. My understanding of the term can be used throughout different federal agencies and they all have different definitions. The link you gave is the SBA’s definition, but does not the IRS have a different one based on the number of owners and whether it is publicly traded or not? One example I read was “The Tribune Company”, it has more than 500 employees, owns multiple publications and other business but it is privately held and files as “small business” at a lower rate. Am I mistaken?
It would be nice to have one definition.
Thought it was a good speech, hit all the right points for the middle and it gives his supporters something to campaign on; hit the tax points clearly so that people can understand them; clearly defined the difference of his plan and the Republican plan; gave the Dems a platform to run on in 2012.
Will have to see if tax code really changes before I call it a win for the people, call me optimistically cautious.
The WH posted this fact sheet before the speech and it details some of what the President said.
FACT SHEET: The President’s Framework for Shared Prosperity and Shared Fiscal Responsibility
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/04/13/fact-sheet-presidents-framework-shared-prosperity-and-shared-fiscal-resp
I will admit that I have not completely read it, but I plan on doing so. Wonder how many talking heads will?
I expect that few will read it.
Something else came to me as I listened to this fabulous speech: The Roosevelt line about “make me do it” and Obama’s statement that we ALL need to work for change to happen. And I immediately thought of all the recent demonstrations around the country and Wisconsin; about the great work of US Uncut. Now, I happen to believe that the President is 100% behind those anyway, but I also thought, “Thank you protesters for giving Obama the wind at his sails to make such a speech.” The demonstrations are not only about telling power what we want; they are also about helping the President do what we want. I wonder if he would have been as resolute about fighting for what many of us are demanding if not for people in the streets. I mean to say, he might want it too, but our being our there–in the streets–makes it a lot easier for him to do it.
(Seems like my “eloquence” is failing me today. 🙄 )
Great point Cher and you are eloquent as ever.
I’m fine with brining the tax rate for those making $250K/year to pre-Bush tax cuts levels but I still wish the Dems would add another tax bracket at $1MM/year and point them with a 40%+ tax rate.
Thanks, KQ–I wish so too.
KQ, I know this can’t be explained on a bumper sticker or a 10 second clip, but the first 250,000 is taxed at the lower rate, the rest is at the higher rate. Same thing with the millionaire tax. The proposal of more brackets is in the “progressive plan”, but is that even covered in the news? No, lets discuss the fraudulent Ryan plan.
😆 Just as I’m typing this Jan is on MSNBC on this very topic.
“Make me do it” is a good way to put it.
In 2012, you “make” Obama do it by electing the Congress that you need to have to pass the laws that you say you need.
Cher, I think it will embolden our democratic Congress as well. Obama said (I shouldn’t even attempt to paraphrase but…) he is not President of the Democrats but President of all of us. I don’t know that anyone else has said that and it makes “give and take” a little less offensive.
The WI, MI, OH—gives me goose bumps. The Pres of Firefighters Union and the Police unions will be out in these and other states where ever a recall is happening. And this:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/poll-plurality-of-voters-displeased-with-gop-house-majority-view-party-as-extremist.php
If that’s “failed eloquence” I will be blown over by NOT failed eloquence!!! Beautifully said, IMHO. Since I happen to agree with you especially!
Did anyone bother to ask Obama why we’re making cuts to Medicare and Medicaid, programs millions depend on, when neither program has apparently EVER contributed to our debt?
And when he talks about “future shortfalls” in Social Security does he realize:
A.)He’s doing the Republican’s job for them
B.)Those “short falls” only happen if we continue down the same path everyone wants us to go down. Including Democrats.
A debt commission? Yeah. that’ll definitely get things done. Like that awesome 9/11 commission that EVERYONE ignored.
End the Bush tax cuts. Good. But I hope the rest of your tax policy, which you don’t seem to want to talk about, includes raising taxes as well. And not just on the rich.
I like the direction eh is heading with spending cuts, and I hope he does indeed intend to push his agenda further. Still, he needs to address the public about our own debt problems. The American public is on the hook for a LARGE amount of money and we are looking to shift the blame onto politicians for our own excess. That will just put us back at square one.
Good speech though. He sounds confident and that’s good. I’m just more interested in the things he didn’t get into today. But I’m sure he will soon.
Adonai–read about the ACA before you talk about cuts to Medicare. They are cost saving cuts that improve efficiency–NOT cuts to services.
Improvements to Medicare’s Preventive Services under Health Reform
http://assets.aarp.org/rgcenter/ppi/health-care/fs180-preventive.pdf
On Our Way To Slowing The Growth Rate?
http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/10/06/medicare-growthrat/
HEALTH CARE REFORM FACT CHECK: The Truth About Medicare Changes Under ACA
http://www.healthcarereform.wi.gov/docview.asp?docid=20712&locid=173
And about a billion other sites like this:
http://www.healthcare.gov/law/introduction/index.html
What she said. 😉
Cher, My bad. Consider my criticism of this issue withdrawn. Thank you.
Adonai– you’re one cool dude!
Adonai – you are an unusual American who will read, realize he’s been had by the foofurall by the Right, and re-think his position. The operative word here is THINK, and we doff our hats in respect for that increasingly rare act.
AD Medicare cuts are part of the ACA law already because there are billions in waste that can be cut with little affect on service.
AD, On the Medicare and Medicaid reduced costs:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/04/13/fact-sheet-presidents-framework-shared-prosperity-and-shared-fiscal-resp
On SS:
Medicare and Medicaid DO contribute to our debt. Those are the facts.
eileen, How? It has always been paid for. What facts?
Adonai – the cuts are to the bloated and wasteful programs such as Part D that were ‘privatized’ and added on. It’s to take the private middleman (or presumably it could be a woman) that is the medium on Medicare Advantage as if the gummint could not figure it out between you and Medicare and your provider. So that added a huge amount to spending without a dime of it going to health care. Out! Out! Damned waste! Fine with me.
Eileen – Medicare does contribute to the debt. Social Security does NOT. SS is solvent and a separate fund, ergo no deficit spending. But the waste Bush piled on is making Medicare very inefficient, spends tons on bloated administration by the private sector, and it’s also the biggest source of fraud. The FBI has an entire task force in every office to deal with it – mostly it comes from “durable medical equipment” scams that involve your identity theft, phony companies set up in empty storefronts, bills that are sent out for 3-6 months, the folding of the biz about 5 minutes ahead of the FBI, and a new company with the game rolling all over again. It costs BILLIONS. NO one is getting the durable medical equipment. There is none. But the cons get the moolah. Guess who runs all this in CA? Russian and Armenian Pentacostal Christians. Grrrr.
I’ve got CNN on but muted. Just watched Ryan give a speech without the sound. I have no idea what he said but his body language looked absolutely wilted.
It was awful – you were right to
mute it.
Got to love, love LOVE that mute button!
Abby, Mine gets a LOT of exercise.
LOL e’cat! Me too! I have replaced so many remotes because the mute button broke- and I will not watch without it! 🙂
Didn’t take long did it? From Joshua Holland in Alternet.
Obama Deficit Speech: Lots of Flowery Talk About a Major Distraction
It was a classic Obama speech – reasonable, and seductive to a degree that one might forget that we’re debating how fast we’re going to put the breaks on this recovery.
http://www.alternet.org/news/150596/obama_deficit_speech:_lots_of_flowery_talk_about_a_major_distraction_/
OK, Josh, you put up your “progressive” plan, get it through Congress and a centrist country.
This is what really gets me about the left…they aren’t dealing in what is FEASIBLE to attain. That in my mind is just as bad as the tea party!
Abby, That’s my complaint with politicians like Kucinich. He is good at complaining and criticizing and calling for impeachment of other democrats, but what has he achieved in real terms?
Re Kucinich: He freaked over breaking a tooth on an olive pit in his cafeteria meal, but probably won’t sue.
Foodchain — and this guy thinks he’d make a good president????
escribacat — you can’t make it up. But look how many like him. Warrior talk hasn’t helped anyone.
My point exactly. I get very frustrated with any side that doesn’t look at the situation realistically.
While it is all well and good to have strong ideals and beliefs, it is equally important to realize that not everyone is going to agree on those ideals and beliefs. Some people are going to have opposing viewpoints and believe just as much in THEIR way of thinking.
As a result anyone who has a ‘my way or the highway’ mindset is not really serious about really making things happen. Because it is NEVER going to work that way except in a dictatorship. And honestly…is that what the people on either the far right or far left want…a dictatorship?
Abby — Though they will never admit it, I think that’s exactly where the “my way or the highway” crowd would be much happier — as long as the dictator goes their way. All this fighting and uncertainty is difficult and upsetting.
E’cat, exactly my thoughts too.
Abbyrose: for me, these strongly idealistic opinions helped feed past successes and I understand their disappointment. My frustration is the holding hostage of a vote, the threats of abandoning Obama in order to do what? Show him what? Show us what? I just keep looking for words that can make sense to them so they stay in the game. And I can’t find those words.
You make a great point there. I don’t understand THAT logic at all.
Bito, I’m guessing Josh doesn’t have a friggin clue how to actually achieve the passage of major legislation. Complaining is the easiest thing in the world to do and everybody’s an expert at it.
Maybe Josh didn’t hear these words from the President.
“Indeed, to those in my own party, I say that if we truly believe in a progressive vision of our society, we have the obligation to prove that we can afford our commitments. If we believe that government can make a difference in people’s lives, we have the obligation to prove that it works – by making government smarter, leaner and more effective.” President Barack Obama
I say bring it on Josh. Give it your best shot.
Why am I not surprised. On the long term deficit crisis the left is as disingenuous as the right. While the president hit all the high notes on the different visions Democrats and Republicans have for this country. The country wants a real life solution and not a conservative or progressive plan. In my opinion Ryan’s plan is the gift that keeps on giving because it is so steeped in ideology it is seen as extreme to most Americans while again Obama is the only adult in the room.
I expect that this really dates me; but, years ago that polemic by Josh was called: “speaking the truth to power”.
Josh is making a statement; he has no intention of making a law.
agrippa, That may have some truth, but I thought there were parts that mis-characterized the speech and others that were just wrong. The WH released a fact sheet before the speech, I wonder if he read it before he wrote the article. I would like to see the Moody report that he cited about the cuts, must have been a rather quick study since the details of the bill were only released yesterday.
I doubt that he did read it.
Maddow tweets:
Anthony Weiner:
Dear Everyone,
My name is Foodchain and I’m a recovering HP non pundit. I came here when someone identified this site as the place where many had fled. I did not introduced myself because my name is still the same and it seemed presumptuous.
Today, with the President’s speech, I realize that there are disagreements here about the President’s process–POV. However, at HP, the clever, hostile, quipping that so frequently raised itself to name calling, encouraged me to step into a fray I now wish I had the discipline to have avoided.
So as an introduction, I would like to apologize for any comments to anyone who might have been at HP in which I should have shown a more agreeable way of disagreeing. I have thoroughly enjoyed the commentary here, the articles and the commitment to excellence.
HP is fatuous
Foodchain, Well, with that intriguing introduction I had to go over and check. Turns out we’re friends over yonder as well! I’ve had a few nasty fights over there that really felt toxic to me. I always regret getting sucked into that junk.
escribacat, I know. It kind of fits with the “Emerald Curtain” idea of using people for personal gain.
Foodchain, I am happy to know you. I may have “known” you there too, but we were all different people there. Here is where the real us shines.
Cher, thanks. Two very different canvases.
Food no apology needed and we all knew what you went through. Hell one of my snarky comments was posted on a right wing watch site (along with Hume Skeptic and Kevenseven) as examples of left wing anti-semitism which anyone who knows me is a complete laugh. So the bottom line is I’ve said too many things I’m not proud of either over there and it took a while to ween me off that knee jerk contrarian logic.
KQuark: I didn’t know Kevenseven but Hume—I felt so honored to be there when his friends set up the Tribute section. A much better time. And congratulations on making it to a right wing watch site with them! Ha!
Hume was one of the true greats and we all miss him here. Frankly it was a bit of a consolation, a badge of honor to be singled out with him even if I was not proud of the particular comment.
Really appreciate your post, foodchain. I am a recovered HP addict.
I used to be among the Troll Buster types back in 2008 at HP, I was sucked in as many have been and are.
My revelation came when I was socializing and discussed with someone that I was blogging at HP. They were unfamiliar with it all so I explained in detail and once I explained about the trolls and how I and others would “take them out”…as I heard the words coming out of my mouth, it really hit me, how ridiculous, asinine and ultimately pointless it was. I felt like some nerd spitting saliva in excitement as he described in detail his latest adventures in an online Dungeons and Dragons session.
I look back with a bit of embarrassment to my days of the “noble fight” for the sanctity of HP and the excuse I made for it at the time that I was making a difference by exposing lies for those who read the comments there. Truth was and is, most at HP have a fixed opinion of Repubs and Dems and whatever is posted is unlikely to change anyone’s mind.
The Planet may be a bit bewildering to some HP people when they come here. As you note, folks here disagree all the time and feel free to debate each other but because people here don’t treat anyone who disagrees with them as their enemy, certain HP types don’t get it.
My surmise is that since they don’t see people being abusive to each other here, obviously, there are no disagreements at The Planet because snarky insults and/or hostility is the only way you respond to someone who disagrees with your opinion.
There should be an HP Detox Center, it could make a fortune!
AdLib:
HAHAhahahahahahah!!!Love it!
😆 I got a big hoot out of that too, Cher. How embarrassing. I’ve tried to explain it to people too and they’ve all had the same response: “You’re nuts!”
From the way that person was looking at me as I recounted my HP Troll Bashing, I’m sure that’s what they were thinking.
Heh! Thanks Cher!
Adlib….I love the idea of the HP detox! I am a recovered HP addict., TOO. AND PROUD of it!!!!
I must admit it was a tad hard the first few days.
Love the dungeons and dragons reference…that was good!
Maybe The Planet can set that up as a side biz?
It does take a bit of adjustment, waiting for nasty comments that never come, like PTSD.
Thanks!
AdLib; and trying to figure out some new way to spell words like secret anti-mod code. Hysterical. Your descriptions ared just what it felt like, getting worked up into a frenzy to fight the other frenzied. They’ll need more than a Detox Center soon: a blotter might serve better!
foodchain – That’s the easy way to spot a newbie from HP, their spelling takes a while to revert back to normal.
Maybe a blotter but electro shock therapy worked wonders for me!
I’m with you, Adlib. I really LIKE the style of argument that happens here, as opposed to all the name calling. People from the outside, and at a glance, may see us here as a kind of “echo chamber” because we are all on the left side of the political spectrum. But at HP, the RW posters are almost, to a person, insulting and unwilling to intelligently discuss anything. They think just posting links and tossing out one liners is enough.
POV may not be everybody’s cuppa, but the caliber of intellect here, and the range of topics discussed and argued about, is well beyond what I’ve encountered on other forums.
and we have lots of cute critters too!!
Our critters are cuter than theirs, because they’re real! 🙂
I do agree, but you gotta admit the kitty in the “pity fan me” discussion was adorable.
C’Lady, I do believe that’s our very own Questinia!
Cher is right, Questinia wrote an article: The Power of Intermittent Fanning (it’s up for Award 2010) and there she describes the whole story with that avi
To those who prefer debate over wrestling, this is a comfortable place.
But, some see blogging as a game where you compete against others for the snarkiest comment or how many trolls they can insult.
It’s subjective, you can take someone to a restaurant you love and they might not like the food, preferring Taco Bell instead. To each their own…
You’re good by me!
But of course,…you’re ‘food’! 😀
foxisms—blush….. 😉 We had 3 dogs, 2 cats, a frog and a river turtle, two kids and a home business. I always said all we needed was a bird to have a — “foodchain”. Good days
Oh, man, I got completely caught up for a while in “blowing up trolls.” I got frustrated when how many of them suddenly showed up in 2009 and I took it upon myself to become one of the premier “trollslayers” at HP. I was good at it, too. Then after a while, I finally said to myself, “wait a minute, this is really stupid. I’m making an idiot out of myself. What a waste of time.” Like Adlib, I’m not proud of some of the battles I fought over there.
The trolls can have HP, as far as I’m concerned.
The anti-trolls are no less vicious, most being reduced to one sentence insults. Hurling (in both senses) word bombs 😉
I also found out the hard way that some of those trolls are more than just assholes. Some of them are literally psychotic. I was an idiot.
Foodchain, no worries all is forgiven. A plate of cookies is all I ask as my price for forgiveness. 🙂
funksands: trouble is I can’t even do emoticons yet, but as soon as I can I will. 😉 ( it’s all I’ve got)
foodchain – I’ve been here over a year, and I can’t do emoticons at ALL. Don’t know why. But everyone here will tell you – I’m the Queen of the No. 2 Pencil, and technology, while admired by me, still eludes. So I’m VERY impressed at the one you have – it’s 100% more than I have!
You better share those cookies funk 🙂
For those who missed the speech or would like to see it again:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/photos-and-video/video/2011/04/13/country-we-believe-improving-america-s-fiscal-future
I hope the PCCC raised a lot of money.