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AdLib On April - 13 - 2011

Watch President Obama live as he speaks today at 10:35 am PDT (1:35 pm EDT) on his proposals for the 2012 budget and long term economic policies.

A helpful hint, to live post without missing any of the speech, open a second window with this page and post in one window while watching the other.

Written by AdLib

My motto is, "It is better to have blogged and lost hours of your day, than never to have blogged at all."

229 Responses so far.

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  1. coveark says:

    I am really proud of President Obama and was very glad to hear him say the things that I knew he would. He is so good at holding down the BS he could be spouting and comming through at the right time.

  2. AdLib says:

    Man, I just waded into HP out of curiosity and reading the comments on the Obama speech thread there is like reading comments at Foxnews.com.

    I really don’t understand the point of Progressives blogging over there anymore.

    • KillgoreTrout says:

      AdLib, I think some of them get caught up in the flame wars. Troll slapping or whatever. But they might not see that too much troll slapping dulls the mind. After all, it requires one to wallow in the same muck and mire that the trolls do.

    • foodchain says:

      AdLib, I don’t know if you, or anyone here remembers, but when I was young, the mosquito spray trucks would come by at night and spray who know what--DDT?--. Some kids-my husband for one, followed behind these trucks thinking they were really cool. It strikes me that a lot of people are following news in a similarly toxic way.

    • Abbyrose86 says:

      I hear you. The comments on the blogs on MSNBC, were just as bad.

    • choicelady says:

      Revenge.

    • Haruko Haruhara says:

      Sometimes if I feel like I have something I really need to get off my chest, I will blog there, but as far as spending 6 hours a day or more … ditto. I honestly don’t get it. It’s a cesspool.

  3. KQuark says:

    The jury is in, well kinda. Save for the ideological right wing responses the president again hits the mark with his speech and approach today even the more centrist pundits agreed. Almost to a person they said Ryan’s plan is not a serious deficit cutting plan and the president has the only adult response to the long term debt crisis.

    http://www.politico.com/arena/

    (BTW the arena is one of the worthwhile features on Politico. Most of it is run by right wing hacks.)

    I mean should anyone be surprised. C’mon time and time again these right wing lunatics unapologetically favor the rich and want to trample on the poor and now even seniors. Nothing makes this more clear than the budget battle. Now what has yet to be determined is if the so called Democratic base will be behind at least the president’s most progressive part of the plan the tax increases on the rich. Or will we once again see the left get mired down into endless quibbling and let the right win the debate.

    Unfortunately the first salvos I hear from Alternet and Krugman are not encouraging. You can always tell when progressives have little to complain about like Krugman did today who said Obama’s plan should be the end point of negotiations. Now I wish I had a nickel for every progressive “free minded” blogger who will outsourse their own opinions to repeat that narrative ad nauseum.

    • Sabreen60 says:

      Alternet is good for calling the President House “N” and Uncle Tom. I told them to kiss my a$$ and haven’t been back since.

    • AdLib says:

      I skimmed Arena, it’s hard to find an impartial party there that doesn’t express what one might expect. I mean, Grover Norquist says, “Obama is on the ropes”? No surprise but it does show how out of touch these RWs are, I think they’re going to get hit as hard in 2012 as Dems got hit in 2010 and never see it coming.

      • Artist50 says:

        AdLib -- I pray you’re right, it makes so much sense to me and then I listen or read the RW blogs and I’m astounded how far apart we are. I can’t believe anyone would believe Ryan’s plan for Medicare will work. I can’t get insurance at my age for pre-existing conditions and they think insurance companies are going to voluntarily insure 80 year olds?

  4. Chernynkaya says:

    For some encouragement, I just thought I’d post some of the comments on the President’s speech over at The Maddow Blog --just a sampling of the overwhelming reactions:

    GoMetricToday

    He said what I was needing to hear. I felt his leadership once again. All I have to say is Thank You Mr. President! Thank You!

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    Reply#1 -- Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:53 AM PDT
    NextMSNBCStar

    I hope there was someone listening in Congress, and maybe there are. This morning I heard my local right wing radio screamer get shut down by our local redder than red Congressman. Screamer was saying the government should be shut down, etc., etc., etc, and Bachman, and Beck, and Boehner, and Ryan and on and on and on and the Congressman said, first, Bachman is only out for herself, and closing the government is stupid, and the real question is what to do that matters and though he can endorse in part Ryan’s plan it cannot pass as it is and we “have to find a way” to work with the President because I think the man has just about given everything he is going to until we (the R’s) give something back.”

    It was encouraging, so maybe someone in Congress was listening. It was a good speech, and I think my Congressman, whom I have never voted for and will never vote for was spot on. There has to be a way, as the President and he both said, and that our President has given just about everything he is going to.

    I choose to hope.

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    #1.1 -- Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:13 PM PDT
    PhxKenster

    It was the adult conversation/address America has been needing for decades, powerfully so.

    Sad we have to blow $20 Trillion in P&I since 81… before these conversations take place in a meaningful way, not to mention another $8 trillion in trade deficits manifesting themselves in factories & jobs fleeing overseas, coming back as cheap imports. Now the cheap imports are getting expensive… and good paying jobs GONE.

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    #1.2 -- Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:55 PM PDT
    Herb Venton

    Yep, me too. Now to maintain the tone when the round-the-clock assault begins in the concervative media.

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    #1.3 -- Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:39 PM PDT
    joybar

    This is the man I have admired and loved from the first minute I saw him and heard him speak!

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    #1.4 -- Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:51 PM PDT
    A. Stern

    It is amazing that none of the news commentators on CNN said “thank you,” as I agree the President deserves a big one for that speech. He really told it like it is.

    To balance a budget, everyone knows it takes more than CUTS to rein in expenditures; we have to look at the INCOME side. For example, there are so many tax dollars out there uncollected that we need to beef up the collection process and garner that income — not the small change from the little guy, but the billions from Fortune 1000 companies that have gotten away with not paying their legitimate tax bills because they can pay KPMG instead to find loopholes.

    I liked what President Obama said about “investment” because that is so true: analyze where we can make the highest income, both short-term and long-term, and invest the necessary resources to generate that income. Instead the Republicans would make their cuts in those programs for the poor and middle class that make up only 12% of all expenditures.

    I look forward to Bill Maher’s proffered budget, as I’ll bet it is based on something similar: cutting from the biggest slices like military offensives and investing in the biggest sources of generating income.

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    #1.5 -- Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:58 PM PDT
    Reply
    ams707

    Amazing speech. Reminded me of the movies “The American President” & “Dave”.

    “and I Am the President” ~ M. Douglas

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    Reply#2 -- Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:55 AM PDT
    MtnWoman

    Great speech!

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    Reply#3 -- Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:57 AM PDT
    Diva-3314442

    Really liked his approach to what needs to be done. His promise to not let the republicians destroy Medicare and Medicaid I thought was right on target. I can deal with “surgical cuts” to popular programs but this taking a “hatchet” to do the job is just wrong.

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    Reply#4 -- Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:58 AM PDT
    David Lachar

    Please note a just aired interview with a Ft. Worth tea party leader (about 2:30 edt) who in his rant actually said that Texas is running a surplus! Was allowed to go on without any confrontation! Please review specifics of Texas. Gov Perry said the day before his reelection that we were running a surplus and didn’t need the US at all. The day after the election were were in a substantial deficit (over 20 billion $ for next two years) and now every school district is laying off teachers and nursing homes are in a panic. Apparently our casual state legislature voted to sunset state gas revenues and mismanaged business tax changes, so that we are in a continuing crisis. Our politicians are focused on social issues and apparently are not concerned about budget. Don’t let politicians from Texas brag that we do it right here. Present the truth!

    David Lachar

    Sugar Land, Texas

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    I needed to hear this… Brilliant, thank you… (lol ams 707 -- I AM the President)

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    Reply#6 -- Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:00 PM PDT
    monomatica

    I loved it, too. I hope he and his people keep hammering these truths & facts home. I only wish it was on at prime time so everyone could learn something about how we got here and what needs to be done to keep the American Dream alive. (But not during American Idol, of course. πŸ˜‰

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    Reply#7 -- Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:00 PM PDT
    Laura_S

    Now let’s pray that actions follow his words. His ability to speak has never been in doubt, it’s his followup that often doesn’t equal it. I’m cautiously hopeful.

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    #8.3 -- Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:39 PM PDT
    Reply
    Diva-3314442

    loved his comment just what I needed to hear

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    Reply#9 -- Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:02 PM PDT
    DrBob8-1346251

    Sounds good. I hope he actually fights for what he says. No more capitulation.

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    Reply#10 -- Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:03 PM PDT
    Taxo

    I definitely agree with what he said, and do like the path he laid out. Unfortunately I’m sure those who have fought against this president from day one will continue to fight this to protect that top 1%.

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    Reply#11 -- Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:03 PM PDT
    Mark-1679748

    That top 1% that pays for 40% of everything the govt. does. Those horrible people. how dare they.

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    #11.1 -- Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:26 PM PDT
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    PhxKenster

    It’s time for an adult conversation, context and all, on TRMS about the fiscal nightmare that’s been created.

    Powerful speech, given the reality of our fiscal anchor. Is it too much to address the other deficit of the Twin Deficits, that of trade? Too much????? And interest on the debt going to potentially $1 Trillion per year. I guess interest on the debt is very relevant! πŸ˜‰

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    Reply#12 -- Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:04 PM PDT
    D. C. Sessions

    In theory, free trade results in approximately balanced trade. Too much export, your currency appreciates. Too much import, your currency devalues.

    For the last 30 years, the USA’s official policy is to maintain the dollar at above-market levels to keep our imports cheap and our exports expensive. Two generations have grown up thinking that “a strong dollar” is necessary for the welfare of the United States.

    Good luck swimming upstream against that .

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    #12.1 -- Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:18 PM PDT
    Reply
    njdemgirl

    I needed to hear this from you, Mr. President… thank you. Let’s get it done!

    ams707 -- I AM President -- Love it!

    (First of 3 pages)

  5. Abbyrose86 says:

    I have a huge pet peeve that the right is fantastic at manipulating…and that is the concept of ‘small business’.

    In the United States a small business is defined as a PRIVATE business…it can be a corporation, partnership or sole proprietorship with under 500 employees. AS the entity is PRIVATELY owned the exact amount of that entities revenues, sales and value does NOT have to be publicly disclosed.

    ERGO the whole right wing slant about small business is a lie. A small business can have revenues in the millions or even billions of dollars. A small business can have gross profits in the millions of dollars. A small business does not necessarily mean a local business or home based business either.

    Contrary to the mime that the right puts forth and which the media is negligent in pointing out…a small business does not equate to a little mom and pop neighborhood operation.

    I am so tired of this particular lie, I just want to scream!

    http://www.fedaccess.com/what-is-small-business.htm

    http://mediamatters.org/research/201009140030

    • bito says:

      Abby, I agree about the use of the manipulating of the “small Business” term. My understanding of the term can be used throughout different federal agencies and they all have different definitions. The link you gave is the SBA’s definition, but does not the IRS have a different one based on the number of owners and whether it is publicly traded or not? One example I read was “The Tribune Company”, it has more than 500 employees, owns multiple publications and other business but it is privately held and files as “small business” at a lower rate. Am I mistaken?
      It would be nice to have one definition.

    • KQuark says:

      So true and those businesses are just a small percentage of real small businesses.

      I forget what the figures where perhaps in the 90’s percentage wise but most REAL small businesses don’t fall into the category of making over $250K/year. So the whole meme that raising taxes on the rich will hurt small businesses is a complete fabrication.

    • BigDogMom says:

      Abby, you forgot to add Hedge Funds to your list of “Small Businesses”, but I guess that could fall under the “billions of dollars” category…

  6. BigDogMom says:

    Thought it was a good speech, hit all the right points for the middle and it gives his supporters something to campaign on; hit the tax points clearly so that people can understand them; clearly defined the difference of his plan and the Republican plan; gave the Dems a platform to run on in 2012.

    Will have to see if tax code really changes before I call it a win for the people, call me optimistically cautious.

  7. bito says:

    The WH posted this fact sheet before the speech and it details some of what the President said.

    FACT SHEET: The President’s Framework for Shared Prosperity and Shared Fiscal Responsibility

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/04/13/fact-sheet-presidents-framework-shared-prosperity-and-shared-fiscal-resp

    I will admit that I have not completely read it, but I plan on doing so. Wonder how many talking heads will?

  8. Chernynkaya says:

    Something else came to me as I listened to this fabulous speech: The Roosevelt line about “make me do it” and Obama’s statement that we ALL need to work for change to happen. And I immediately thought of all the recent demonstrations around the country and Wisconsin; about the great work of US Uncut. Now, I happen to believe that the President is 100% behind those anyway, but I also thought, “Thank you protesters for giving Obama the wind at his sails to make such a speech.” The demonstrations are not only about telling power what we want; they are also about helping the President do what we want. I wonder if he would have been as resolute about fighting for what many of us are demanding if not for people in the streets. I mean to say, he might want it too, but our being our there--in the streets--makes it a lot easier for him to do it.

    (Seems like my “eloquence” is failing me today. πŸ™„ )

    • choicelady says:

      If that’s “failed eloquence” I will be blown over by NOT failed eloquence!!! Beautifully said, IMHO. Since I happen to agree with you especially!

    • foodchain says:

      Cher, I think it will embolden our democratic Congress as well. Obama said (I shouldn’t even attempt to paraphrase but…) he is not President of the Democrats but President of all of us. I don’t know that anyone else has said that and it makes “give and take” a little less offensive.

      The WI, MI, OH—gives me goose bumps. The Pres of Firefighters Union and the Police unions will be out in these and other states where ever a recall is happening. And this:

      http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/poll-plurality-of-voters-displeased-with-gop-house-majority-view-party-as-extremist.php

    • agrippa says:

      “Make me do it” is a good way to put it.
      In 2012, you “make” Obama do it by electing the Congress that you need to have to pass the laws that you say you need.

    • KQuark says:

      Great point Cher and you are eloquent as ever.

      I’m fine with brining the tax rate for those making $250K/year to pre-Bush tax cuts levels but I still wish the Dems would add another tax bracket at $1MM/year and point them with a 40%+ tax rate.

      • bito says:

        KQ, I know this can’t be explained on a bumper sticker or a 10 second clip, but the first 250,000 is taxed at the lower rate, the rest is at the higher rate. Same thing with the millionaire tax. The proposal of more brackets is in the “progressive plan”, but is that even covered in the news? No, lets discuss the fraudulent Ryan plan.
        πŸ˜† Just as I’m typing this Jan is on MSNBC on this very topic.

      • Chernynkaya says:

        Thanks, KQ--I wish so too.

  9. ADONAI says:

    Did anyone bother to ask Obama why we’re making cuts to Medicare and Medicaid, programs millions depend on, when neither program has apparently EVER contributed to our debt?

    And when he talks about “future shortfalls” in Social Security does he realize:

    A.)He’s doing the Republican’s job for them

    B.)Those “short falls” only happen if we continue down the same path everyone wants us to go down. Including Democrats.

    A debt commission? Yeah. that’ll definitely get things done. Like that awesome 9/11 commission that EVERYONE ignored.

    End the Bush tax cuts. Good. But I hope the rest of your tax policy, which you don’t seem to want to talk about, includes raising taxes as well. And not just on the rich.

    I like the direction eh is heading with spending cuts, and I hope he does indeed intend to push his agenda further. Still, he needs to address the public about our own debt problems. The American public is on the hook for a LARGE amount of money and we are looking to shift the blame onto politicians for our own excess. That will just put us back at square one.

    Good speech though. He sounds confident and that’s good. I’m just more interested in the things he didn’t get into today. But I’m sure he will soon.

    • choicelady says:

      Adonai -- the cuts are to the bloated and wasteful programs such as Part D that were ‘privatized’ and added on. It’s to take the private middleman (or presumably it could be a woman) that is the medium on Medicare Advantage as if the gummint could not figure it out between you and Medicare and your provider. So that added a huge amount to spending without a dime of it going to health care. Out! Out! Damned waste! Fine with me.

      Eileen -- Medicare does contribute to the debt. Social Security does NOT. SS is solvent and a separate fund, ergo no deficit spending. But the waste Bush piled on is making Medicare very inefficient, spends tons on bloated administration by the private sector, and it’s also the biggest source of fraud. The FBI has an entire task force in every office to deal with it -- mostly it comes from “durable medical equipment” scams that involve your identity theft, phony companies set up in empty storefronts, bills that are sent out for 3-6 months, the folding of the biz about 5 minutes ahead of the FBI, and a new company with the game rolling all over again. It costs BILLIONS. NO one is getting the durable medical equipment. There is none. But the cons get the moolah. Guess who runs all this in CA? Russian and Armenian Pentacostal Christians. Grrrr.

    • eileenleft says:

      Medicare and Medicaid DO contribute to our debt. Those are the facts.

    • bito says:

      AD, On the Medicare and Medicaid reduced costs:

      Health care: The President’s framework builds on the Affordable Care Act by including new reforms aimed at further reducing the growth of health care spending – a major driver of long-term deficits. The President opposes any plan that would simply shift costs to seniors and the vulnerable by undermining Medicare and Medicaid. Building on the foundation of the historic deficit reduction achieved through the Affordable Care Act, the framework would save an additional $340 billion by 2021, $480 billion by 2023, and at least an additional $1 trillion in the subsequent decade. These savings complement the new patient safety initiative that could lower Medicare costs by another $50 billion over the next decade by providing better care. The President’s framework includes initiatives that will:

      http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/04/13/fact-sheet-presidents-framework-shared-prosperity-and-shared-fiscal-resp

      On SS:

      [….]These efforts should be guided by several principles, including strengthening the program and not privatizing it, improving retirement security for the vulnerable while protecting people with disabilities and current beneficiaries, and not slashing benefits for future generations.

    • KQuark says:

      AD Medicare cuts are part of the ACA law already because there are billions in waste that can be cut with little affect on service.

    • Chernynkaya says:

      Adonai--read about the ACA before you talk about cuts to Medicare. They are cost saving cuts that improve efficiency--NOT cuts to services.

      Improvements to Medicare’s Preventive Services under Health Reform
      http://assets.aarp.org/rgcenter/ppi/health-care/fs180-preventive.pdf

      On Our Way To Slowing The Growth Rate?
      http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/10/06/medicare-growthrat/

      HEALTH CARE REFORM FACT CHECK: The Truth About Medicare Changes Under ACA
      http://www.healthcarereform.wi.gov/docview.asp?docid=20712&locid=173

      And about a billion other sites like this:
      http://www.healthcare.gov/law/introduction/index.html

  10. escribacat says:

    I’ve got CNN on but muted. Just watched Ryan give a speech without the sound. I have no idea what he said but his body language looked absolutely wilted.

  11. bito says:

    Didn’t take long did it? From Joshua Holland in Alternet.

    Obama Deficit Speech: Lots of Flowery Talk About a Major Distraction

    It was a classic Obama speech – reasonable, and seductive to a degree that one might forget that we’re debating how fast we’re going to put the breaks on this recovery.

    http://www.alternet.org/news/150596/obama_deficit_speech:_lots_of_flowery_talk_about_a_major_distraction_/

    OK, Josh, you put up your “progressive” plan, get it through Congress and a centrist country.

    • agrippa says:

      I expect that this really dates me; but, years ago that polemic by Josh was called: “speaking the truth to power”.

      Josh is making a statement; he has no intention of making a law.

      • bito says:

        agrippa, That may have some truth, but I thought there were parts that mis-characterized the speech and others that were just wrong. The WH released a fact sheet before the speech, I wonder if he read it before he wrote the article. I would like to see the Moody report that he cited about the cuts, must have been a rather quick study since the details of the bill were only released yesterday.

    • KQuark says:

      Why am I not surprised. On the long term deficit crisis the left is as disingenuous as the right. While the president hit all the high notes on the different visions Democrats and Republicans have for this country. The country wants a real life solution and not a conservative or progressive plan. In my opinion Ryan’s plan is the gift that keeps on giving because it is so steeped in ideology it is seen as extreme to most Americans while again Obama is the only adult in the room.

    • Sabreen60 says:

      Maybe Josh didn’t hear these words from the President.

      β€œIndeed, to those in my own party, I say that if we truly believe in a progressive vision of our society, we have the obligation to prove that we can afford our commitments. If we believe that government can make a difference in people’s lives, we have the obligation to prove that it works – by making government smarter, leaner and more effective.” President Barack Obama

      I say bring it on Josh. Give it your best shot.

    • escribacat says:

      Bito, I’m guessing Josh doesn’t have a friggin clue how to actually achieve the passage of major legislation. Complaining is the easiest thing in the world to do and everybody’s an expert at it.

    • Abbyrose86 says:

      This is what really gets me about the left…they aren’t dealing in what is FEASIBLE to attain. That in my mind is just as bad as the tea party!

      • escribacat says:

        Abby, That’s my complaint with politicians like Kucinich. He is good at complaining and criticizing and calling for impeachment of other democrats, but what has he achieved in real terms?

        • Abbyrose86 says:

          My point exactly. I get very frustrated with any side that doesn’t look at the situation realistically.

          While it is all well and good to have strong ideals and beliefs, it is equally important to realize that not everyone is going to agree on those ideals and beliefs. Some people are going to have opposing viewpoints and believe just as much in THEIR way of thinking.

          As a result anyone who has a ‘my way or the highway’ mindset is not really serious about really making things happen. Because it is NEVER going to work that way except in a dictatorship. And honestly…is that what the people on either the far right or far left want…a dictatorship?

          • foodchain says:

            Abbyrose: for me, these strongly idealistic opinions helped feed past successes and I understand their disappointment. My frustration is the holding hostage of a vote, the threats of abandoning Obama in order to do what? Show him what? Show us what? I just keep looking for words that can make sense to them so they stay in the game. And I can’t find those words.

            • Abbyrose86 says:

              You make a great point there. I don’t understand THAT logic at all.

          • escribacat says:

            Abby — Though they will never admit it, I think that’s exactly where the “my way or the highway” crowd would be much happier — as long as the dictator goes their way. All this fighting and uncertainty is difficult and upsetting.

        • foodchain says:

          Re Kucinich: He freaked over breaking a tooth on an olive pit in his cafeteria meal, but probably won’t sue.

  12. Chernynkaya says:

    Maddow tweets:

    Pres Obama: Thank you, God bless you, and may God bless the United States of America -30- (will post prepped remarks on blog)

    Anthony Weiner:

    We are a great nation. This is a speech and a fight that honors our ideals. Lets embrace this fight.

  13. foodchain says:

    Dear Everyone,

    My name is Foodchain and I’m a recovering HP non pundit. I came here when someone identified this site as the place where many had fled. I did not introduced myself because my name is still the same and it seemed presumptuous.

    Today, with the President’s speech, I realize that there are disagreements here about the President’s process--POV. However, at HP, the clever, hostile, quipping that so frequently raised itself to name calling, encouraged me to step into a fray I now wish I had the discipline to have avoided.

    So as an introduction, I would like to apologize for any comments to anyone who might have been at HP in which I should have shown a more agreeable way of disagreeing. I have thoroughly enjoyed the commentary here, the articles and the commitment to excellence.

    • funksands says:

      Foodchain, no worries all is forgiven. A plate of cookies is all I ask as my price for forgiveness. πŸ™‚

      • jkkFL says:

        You better share those cookies funk πŸ™‚

      • foodchain says:

        funksands: trouble is I can’t even do emoticons yet, but as soon as I can I will. πŸ˜‰ ( it’s all I’ve got)

        • choicelady says:

          foodchain -- I’ve been here over a year, and I can’t do emoticons at ALL. Don’t know why. But everyone here will tell you -- I’m the Queen of the No. 2 Pencil, and technology, while admired by me, still eludes. So I’m VERY impressed at the one you have -- it’s 100% more than I have!

    • Pepe Lepew says:

      Oh, man, I got completely caught up for a while in “blowing up trolls.” I got frustrated when how many of them suddenly showed up in 2009 and I took it upon myself to become one of the premier “trollslayers” at HP. I was good at it, too. Then after a while, I finally said to myself, “wait a minute, this is really stupid. I’m making an idiot out of myself. What a waste of time.” Like Adlib, I’m not proud of some of the battles I fought over there.

      The trolls can have HP, as far as I’m concerned.

    • foxisms says:

      You’re good by me!
      But of course,…you’re ‘food’! πŸ˜€

      • foodchain says:

        foxisms—blush….. πŸ˜‰ We had 3 dogs, 2 cats, a frog and a river turtle, two kids and a home business. I always said all we needed was a bird to have a — “foodchain”. Good days

    • AdLib says:

      Really appreciate your post, foodchain. I am a recovered HP addict.

      I used to be among the Troll Buster types back in 2008 at HP, I was sucked in as many have been and are.

      My revelation came when I was socializing and discussed with someone that I was blogging at HP. They were unfamiliar with it all so I explained in detail and once I explained about the trolls and how I and others would “take them out”…as I heard the words coming out of my mouth, it really hit me, how ridiculous, asinine and ultimately pointless it was. I felt like some nerd spitting saliva in excitement as he described in detail his latest adventures in an online Dungeons and Dragons session.

      I look back with a bit of embarrassment to my days of the “noble fight” for the sanctity of HP and the excuse I made for it at the time that I was making a difference by exposing lies for those who read the comments there. Truth was and is, most at HP have a fixed opinion of Repubs and Dems and whatever is posted is unlikely to change anyone’s mind.

      The Planet may be a bit bewildering to some HP people when they come here. As you note, folks here disagree all the time and feel free to debate each other but because people here don’t treat anyone who disagrees with them as their enemy, certain HP types don’t get it.

      My surmise is that since they don’t see people being abusive to each other here, obviously, there are no disagreements at The Planet because snarky insults and/or hostility is the only way you respond to someone who disagrees with your opinion.

      There should be an HP Detox Center, it could make a fortune!

      • whatsthatsound says:

        I’m with you, Adlib. I really LIKE the style of argument that happens here, as opposed to all the name calling. People from the outside, and at a glance, may see us here as a kind of “echo chamber” because we are all on the left side of the political spectrum. But at HP, the RW posters are almost, to a person, insulting and unwilling to intelligently discuss anything. They think just posting links and tossing out one liners is enough.

        POV may not be everybody’s cuppa, but the caliber of intellect here, and the range of topics discussed and argued about, is well beyond what I’ve encountered on other forums.

        • AdLib says:

          To those who prefer debate over wrestling, this is a comfortable place.

          But, some see blogging as a game where you compete against others for the snarkiest comment or how many trolls they can insult.

          It’s subjective, you can take someone to a restaurant you love and they might not like the food, preferring Taco Bell instead. To each their own…

        • jkkFL says:

          and we have lots of cute critters too!!
          Our critters are cuter than theirs, because they’re real! πŸ™‚

          • choicelady says:

            I do agree, but you gotta admit the kitty in the “pity fan me” discussion was adorable.

            • Truth says:

              Cher is right, Questinia wrote an article: The Power of Intermittent Fanning (it’s up for Award 2010) and there she describes the whole story with that avi

            • Chernynkaya says:

              C’Lady, I do believe that’s our very own Questinia!

      • foodchain says:

        AdLib; and trying to figure out some new way to spell words like secret anti-mod code. Hysterical. Your descriptions ared just what it felt like, getting worked up into a frenzy to fight the other frenzied. They’ll need more than a Detox Center soon: a blotter might serve better!

        • AdLib says:

          foodchain -- That’s the easy way to spot a newbie from HP, their spelling takes a while to revert back to normal.

          Maybe a blotter but electro shock therapy worked wonders for me!

      • Abbyrose86 says:

        Adlib….I love the idea of the HP detox! I am a recovered HP addict., TOO. AND PROUD of it!!!!

        I must admit it was a tad hard the first few days.

        Love the dungeons and dragons reference…that was good!

      • Chernynkaya says:

        AdLib:

        I felt like some nerd spitting saliva in excitement as he described in detail his latest adventures in an online Dungeons and Dragons session.

        HAHAhahahahahahah!!!Love it!

    • KQuark says:

      Food no apology needed and we all knew what you went through. Hell one of my snarky comments was posted on a right wing watch site (along with Hume Skeptic and Kevenseven) as examples of left wing anti-semitism which anyone who knows me is a complete laugh. So the bottom line is I’ve said too many things I’m not proud of either over there and it took a while to ween me off that knee jerk contrarian logic.

      • foodchain says:

        KQuark: I didn’t know Kevenseven but Hume—I felt so honored to be there when his friends set up the Tribute section. A much better time. And congratulations on making it to a right wing watch site with them! Ha!

        • KQuark says:

          Hume was one of the true greats and we all miss him here. Frankly it was a bit of a consolation, a badge of honor to be singled out with him even if I was not proud of the particular comment.

    • Chernynkaya says:

      Foodchain, I am happy to know you. I may have “known” you there too, but we were all different people there. Here is where the real us shines.

    • escribacat says:

      Foodchain, Well, with that intriguing introduction I had to go over and check. Turns out we’re friends over yonder as well! I’ve had a few nasty fights over there that really felt toxic to me. I always regret getting sucked into that junk.

    • agrippa says:

      HP is fatuous

  14. funksands says:

    I hope the PCCC raised a lot of money.

  15. AdLib says:

    As an ancillary issue, I hope folks who were concerned by the fear mongering of the Purist Left people and sites, attacking Obama because they “knew” that in this speech he would put middle class tax cuts on the table, or slashing Medicare and SS or express a willingness to renew the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, no longer give any of those people and sites any further credibility when they fear monger against Obama in the future.

    Obama is not stupid, a pawn, weak or any of the other BS insults made against him. He is a provably intelligent and educated man who has used his abilities to become The President of the United States. Underestimating him only exposes the ignorance of those who try.

    • KQuark says:

      Spot on as usual Adlib. It’s like the dog whistles progressives put out about Obama cutting Medicare when the vast majority of those cuts are part of the ACA law all along. Many on the left now have a visceral negative response to Obama some justified most not. But again and again Obama proves to me he gets the big picture. He did an excellent job framing the budget debate and most of all again shows the different views Democrats and Republicans have for America. The only thing that struck me was this was actually a much more partisan speech than even I expected and he gutted Ryan’s plan as the ideological tripe it is.

    • Sabreen60 says:

      I so agree. IMO, President Obama has the ability of foresight, but not only foresight in terms of the big picture, but he also sees details. I don’t have this ability, but I have crossed paths over the course of my life with people who do. I think it’s a gift. Some of us are so shortsighted and this seems to be problem with some on the left. I pretty much think those on the right have no sight at all, but that’s just me.

    • agrippa says:

      adlib:

      hear hear!

    • foodchain says:

      AdLib, thank you for saying this. It is awkward when people in “your family” get so angry at someone I admire. I think back to dinner table discussions of old when sides were taken on sensitive issues. I’ve learned from those years and seeing others that purely ideological goals are something to strive for but never a line in the sand, or a dare, or a threat. It demeans the concept if hate comes from any idealism.

    • escribacat says:

      What disturbs me about a lot of those criticisms from the left is the nasty tone they take. They sound exactly like rightwing fanatics to me. I’m talking about some of the rabid commenters I’ve had ugly fights with over yonder. They HATE the president with the same zeal and viciousness that comes from the far right. And I mean HATE, in all caps.

      • KQuark says:

        Bingo Bito and this I blame on the right wing view of politics brought by people like AH.

        Right now I don’t take what the left or right says as fact. I check it out for myself and often find the truth is somewhere in the middle. Still time and time again I hear the hyperbole, name calling, guilt by association, and sometimes outright lies I hear from the right coming from the left.

      • agrippa says:

        I agree.
        Obama seems to be hated by elements of the left and the right.

      • AdLib says:

        I’m not sure of why that is but here are a few guesses. Some of these “Lefties” are just “Haters”. They hated Bush and they hate Obama, it gives them a sense of being important, being a threat to Authority, in essence, acting like a 16 year old kid.

        Another guess is that the meme that those fraudulent Repubs in Dems clothing, like Arianna, pounded into the heads of many Dems was one of entitlement. “You voted for him, you are entitled to get everything you want and if you don’t, he betrayed you!”

        When you see how self-righteous these jerks are, egotism and self-entitlement just seems to drip off of them (like grease).

        As you say, they come off exactly like TeaBaggers who have had their polarity changed, no difference in the closed minded ignorance and hatred.

        As mentioned above, there is such a lack of maturity in most of these types, no different than a bratty kid throwing a tantrum in a candy store at what he didn’t get with both hands full of candy.

    • Truth says:

      Well spoken, AdLib, thanks!

  16. Chernynkaya says:

    Yesterday, I already began to see some of the bloggers on the Left eat a little crow by admitting they were wrong about the content of the speech. I will be looking today to see how many more have any intellectual honesty or integrity to admit they were wrong.

    One of the interesting things to me about that is how easily many expected Obama to move further Right. I did too, but not very far to the Right. I expected him to make some conciliatory remarks about Medicare--saying that some cuts were needed to preserve it. I didn’t however expect him to actually cut Medicare but rather to allow the discussion to take place of the GOP playing field. HE DID NOT, and I am thrilled!

    But I have to ask myself, “WHY did I expect that?” I will have to go back and review the times when I was let down--was I really? Or was I influenced by people on the Left whom I admire (Rachel, Yglesias, Krugman), as well as the general atmosphere/meme that the President is too conciliatory. Interesting to see how these ideas take root. Because, you know what? This President is the BEST one in my lifetime, and certainly since Roosevelt.

    • KQuark says:

      Cher absolutely fabulous response because you bring up one of the things I learned outside the blog world and expressed it better than I could. Put it this way most bloggers especially bloggers on the left are intelligent people who can make up their minds for themselves. Why so many outsource their opinions to others is beyond me. Maybe it’s just our need to be social people.

      Personally speaking I would trust your honest opinion and most opinions on the Planet more than any professional pundit. For one I see most people here manage to break away from the group think out there. But as much as I respect others opinions here the bottom line is the opinion you should respect most is your own.

      I dunno if the president is the best in my life yet but I know he does get it and has more integrity than any president I can remember.

    • Truth says:

      Cher, I’m so happy that you made this comment. I was wondering about you and others yesterday and earlier today to be honest. And I’m glad that you lay your thought processes about this out in the open. Courageous and wonderful lady that you are!

    • AdLib says:

      Just wrote the comment above before seeing your comment. Very honest and thoughtful Cher.

      The lesson here should indeed be to take the opinions of Pundits, no matter how much we may like them, with a grain of salt and trust your own instincts first.

      All pundits, even those on the Left, have additional factors surrounding them that can affect their judgment. Our livelihoods don’t rely on us having popular opinions, satisfying our “audience” or being seen as at the forefront among all other pundits.

      All that smack that was being aimed at Obama felt wrong and was wrong, I didn’t buy any of it because it just didn’t make sense.

      • agrippa says:

        well, adlib, how about pundits making an honest effort at rational analysis. You know, the marshalling of fact and logic to make an argument that makes sense?

        That, I guess, is too much to ask. Easier to pander and fulminate.

      • Abbyrose86 says:

        Exactly Adlib…we need to remember their motivations and to judge situations and issues based on our own perspectives and not those of others who may have an agenda.

      • Khirad says:

        Absolutely. I’ve even had my disagreements with Stewart, but it’s rare. Rachel is by far my favorite pundit, but I have my disagreements with her too.

        It comes back to my own instincts/research.

        But I know what Cher means. I have done that same self-examination.

      • Truth says:

        As I have said before AdLib, you were impressively right with your assumptions as to how he is going to position himself and what he is going to stand for. It was all in line with his ACTIONS so far and with what he said he would stand for as far as I’m concerned.
        You just connected the dots, which seemingly is not so easy amidst all that mostly useless pundit chatter.

        • AdLib says:

          Very kind of you Truth! I do think that your instincts about the truth and what makes sense to you should override the opinions of anyone in the MSM. They have agendas, the truth is not their main one.

          As I mentioned yesterday, looking at Obama’s biggest achievement to date, the HCR bill passage, I couldn’t see him as a man who would sell out what he sacrificed so hard for and privatizing Medicare would do just that.

          And as for the tax cuts for the wealthy, I noticed the MSM has whited-out history already, no mention that the Repubs had already cut off unemployment benefits and were holding 3 million Americans hostage just before Xmas if he didn’t agree to them. I think he made the humanitarian choice but did so with resent. He would not be extorted again into allowing that travesty and I firmly believe he will not yield on it. There is no light at the end of the tunnel for our economy without it so now, if the Repubs insist that 300 million people and America’s future will be held hostage if they don’t get their way on the 2012 budget, I don’t believe he’ll be willing to go there again.

          • Truth says:

            Having seen his demeanor I fully agree with your assessment that he’s not in the least willing to budge on tax increases for the wealthiest.

            And as he said: the outcome will not be exactly what he suggested today, there will be some changes due to the democratic process. Yet he also said that on core issues he won’t budge at all.

            As for being influenced by pundits: to me it’s shocking how much the left wing memes took hold, even in Planeteers. Constant repetition of drivel really seems to lead to believing it over time.

    • escribacat says:

      I agree, Cher. I think a big part of the problem is that he does it in his quiet way and doesn’t rabble rouse like people seem to want. He doesn’t act like Bush the Would-Be-Dictator and so he’s perceived as weak. However, the guy gets results.

      • Chernynkaya says:

        E’cat I really think you nailed it. last night, hubby had Ed on, and Ed had Rachel as a guest. She said something that really captured for me the reason we sometimes get unreasonably upset with Obama (although there are also good reasons for being upset from time to time.)

        She was talking about Ryan’s Medicare proposal and she said she didn’t want Obama to say, “They (GOP) is taking a machete to Medicare and we are taking a scalpel.” She said, “NO! When someone is swinging a machete at you, you don’t fight back with a damn scalpel!”

        See, that’s the gist of our reactions I think. I feel so threatened by the Right--I see it as a life or death fight, actually-- I instinctively want someone to fight them for me in the most obvious ways: With incendiary language calling them out, and with a proverbial fucking machete!

        And I am still grappling with why I have been so frustrated with the President at times and I think this may be it--it is not at all rational, but is amygdala/reptilian brain. When I feel threatened, I lose rationality--and I think this may be the case for many on the Left too. We are freakin’ scared of the Right.

        The fact is, we Dems do not have the “fire power” of the Right: no Super Pacs (yet), no super-rich funders and no media empire. We need to use our wiles instead, and no one is as wily as Obama. “The pen is mightier than the sword” applies here. Obama is outwitting the Orks. And that’s why we need people power! I have zero respect for those who complain from the sidelines now. With all aligned that is against us, it is time to put up or shut up.

        • agrippa says:

          If your enemy is intent upon cutting off his own head with that machete, you stand back and watch him do it.

        • escribacat says:

          Cher, what an incredibly wise and perceptive comment. I think you’re really on to something important there. It could explain why some on the left are so hostile and nasty in their criticisms of Obama, instead of the reasoned questioning some of the posters around here tend to do. I often think about one particular commenter over yonder who shall remain unnamed — but lots of fans and always in the “pundit throne,” much to my deep annoyance. She calls Obama a “colluding criminal” and makes thousands of posts against him (much more often than she posts against the Republicans). Where the hell could that come from except the terror center of that lizard-brain?

          • Chernynkaya says:

            Thank you, e’cat! I have no tolerance for posters like the one you mention, any more than I do for Baggers. They are beneath my contempt and I don’t see any reason to engage them. I also don’t talk to people who walk down the street raving and gesticulating at the wind.

        • AdLib says:

          I know the feeling and I too have a strong desire for Obama to go medieval on the GOP. I also remember wanting him to come back hard at Hillary in the primary after her attacks (all of which is forgiven now!) and I was upset at him for not doing so…but when he came out the winner in the end, I accepted that his strategy worked.

          So, I carry that with me when coming at other issues he deals with as well.

          Here’s why he can’t be as hostile and aggressive as the Repubs.

          First, they just want to destroy. That’s easy, you can bring down the WTC buildings in hours, it takes an enormous amount of thoughtfulness, planning and time to build something.

          If the Dems just wanted to destroy government and the standard of living for the American People, it would be just as easy for them to be single-minded soldiers all marching together under very simple commands.

          Instead, Obama and most Dems are trying to build up this nation, you can’t do that by hurling dynamite back and forth with Republicans.

          Just compare the two budget plans. The Repubs chop away at all of the pillars of American society to hand the pieces over to the wealthy. Obama proposes a path back to the America that works for all of us.

          So much easier for the Repubs to blow up our bridges than for us to organize and figure out how best to build them.

          Aside from some speeches and debates here and there during the upcoming campaign, I think the best approach is to accept that Obama isn’t going to come back at the Repubs in the aggressive way we’d find most satisfying but in the end, he will likely prevail to the degree possible in a strategic and thoughtful way.

          And, I’d also point out that his approach to all of this, as the calm, thoughtful adult, is indeed helping him towards gaining another 4 years in which to follow up on this terms agenda and others.

          • Chernynkaya says:

            AdLib, I agree. I know this in my rational, thinking self. I have just begun to articulate what has been nagging at me--and it’s the reptilian part. And I also saw today Obama set his jaw. He didn’t have to hurl dynamite at all. He just had to show the determination I know he has, and he did that perfectly. I saw both reasonableness and hard lines in the sand--not an easy balancing act, but an honorable one. He could really turn out to be Lincoln reincarnate.

          • jkkFL says:

            AdLib, don’t you think it is sometimes just frustration speaking?
            I know I get frustrated when he doesn’t!
            That’s just not his way; and I have to learn that.

          • Abbyrose86 says:

            Very well said.

          • escribacat says:

            Another elegant thoughtful comment, adlib.

    • agrippa says:

      Cher, Obama is excellent.

      One of the very few actual adults in Washington.

  17. Truth says:

    Cantor et al, you lost. He IS getting serious while you want to vote about the Ryan farce.

  18. PatsyT says:

    Whoa, MSNBC has the poor job creators pudnuts on!
    Hey where are those jobs, Job Creators, you have had those tax cuts for over 8 years and where are those jobs?

  19. Abbyrose86 says:

    WHY does the right have problems understanding basic math?

    I don’t get it!

  20. escribacat says:

    That was one fantastic speech. Call me an Obamabot, but I do believe we’re in good hands with this president.

  21. Truth says:

    A Republican woman who says she wants her taxes raised for the seniors! Wow! There is some common sense left!

  22. Khirad says:

    Fairness? Common sense?

    That’s egalitarian Commie talk.

    Dispatch the hounds, the rabble might have gotten ideas.

  23. Truth says:

    He’s not going to renew the Bush tax cuts!

  24. chasethis says:

    Just when I begin to lose hope, faith for a saner America, here comes the Prez. Well done, sir!

  25. bito says:

    PlanetPOV is tweeting some of your remarks,
    Some of the progressives are calling his speech progressive, is it or is it pragmatic?

  26. Abbyrose86 says:

    Now the annoying part…as the pundits put their own spin on the speech and try to tell us what WE heard for ourselves..

    Ugh


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