Well I can see I missed some lively conversation. I have been over in the “write your own blog” area writing for my series on the Christian Right. So I will just say good night to everyone here.
And Kalima
If you like chocolate, coconut and marshmallow all rolled in to one small candy cup, you would love Mallo Bars or Cups as they are legally called. They are similar to a Cup O Gold that we used to have here in the states but generally were only sold on the east coast, kind of like certain brands of chips are only sold back east. They are all my favorite things in one concoction.
Instead of speculating on another financial crash over there which would include us in Europe and Asia again too, I would be more worried about the 80% of economic growth in China and their impending or by some accounts, already in progress housing “bubble” and what it would mean to America if China suddenly decided to ask for the return of their loans. As it stands now, it appears that China “owns” almost 60% of America.
Kalima, don’t you wonder if China wouldn’t be in the same position that American banks are in, regarding their customers’ credit card debt? When it comes to demanding repayment, the answer might be: “Take a ticket and get in line!”
Just to clarify, sometimes NWO is conflated with corporate domination, one represents a global conspiracy while the other merely represents that those with the most wealth have the most power.
The degree of control varies from nation to nation though the intent is simple, the more the wealthy can control the political and social power in a nation, the wealthier and more dominant they will be.
Where there’s a fork in the road is whether there is a grander vision and collaboration on One Global Government.
Just understanding the insatiable greed and lust for power of these entities would tip one off to how undesirable it would be to them to accede ultimate power over to others or an overall organization.
Certainly, there is collusion on how entities conduct themselves in different regions but I would suggest it is more like, “You can rob from your people there if I can rob the same way from people over here.” And, “Hey, wouldn’t it be great for our profit margins if we could eliminate the middle class and turn them into low paid serfs, heavily in debt and struggling to pay their bills so they’re desperate for whatever salary we offer them?”
That dynamic is very simple. With a strong middle class, more revenue was shared with workers, CEOs earned about 30 times the salary of their average employee. Today it is 300 times. Do any CEOs want to go back to making 1/10th of what they’re making today so the balance can be shared with employees? Of course they want to keep chopping away at the middle class, they profit from it.
So, IMO, there is a lot of consensus and collaboration among the wealthiest people and corporations around the world on economic and political control but I see them as independent tyrants.
At least OPEC makes no bones about the fact that they collude.
BTW get ready for $3.5-5.0/gal gas in the next few months with the election year and the end of the two year contracts coming. It won’t be quite as bad because of our deflationary period but they will spike. It’s interesting the contracts coincide with American Congressional election cycle for the House.
One of the oddly forgotten incidents that accelerated the economic crash was the price manipulation and inflation of oil and gas.
Seeing what was coming down the pike, the oil and gas industry acted like the banks in trying to grab as much as they could before the hammer came down and in the process, hastened and deepened the economic crash.
They sucked billions out of consumer pockets just before the crash.
And people seem to have completely forgotten $5.00 – $6.00/gallon gas and not being able to afford filling up their tank.
There was widespread knowledge among banks, corporations and the wealthy that the crash was coming, well before it happened.
What’s worrying is that we don’t know what they know right now. Is another crash coming? We won’t know until it happens. But we should learn from what happened this time around, any juicing or accelerating of price hikes could be an indicator of corps trying to grab what they can before an impending crash hits.
Member
Blues Tiger
Many people are warning about it… We warned about the last one for years but few listened…
I am trying to keep up with what is happening in Europe… The Pound Sterling may be in trouble and there are some who are wanting to make a move against the dollar and replace the standard it is used for by another currency…
People do seem to have amnesia on that, AdLib (and on so many other things, too). Those hyper-inflated gas prices caused people to run up lots more credit card debt. They had to get to work, and at $50 a crack to fill up (if they were lucky) their tanks, they were forced to pull out the plastic. It’s going to take years just to pay off the gas that was charged during that Bush era price-gouging spree.
One of the earliest uses of the term “New World Order” though, was during the second administration of Woodrow Wilson.
“At the end of the war, U.S. President Woodrow Wilson led the international effort to establish a new world order that would guarantee world peace and stability. Central to this process was the creation of the League of Nations, an inter-governmental organization (i.e., an organization based on a formal agreement between three or more governments of nation-states) whose primary function was to keep peace in the world through ordered relationships among the member nations.”
The term seems to have morphed several times since then.
The uber-wealthy really have no need to conspire. They’re so naturally in sync with each other’s goals and tactics that they don’t have to.
I apologize for repeating myself by saying that there are a million diverse ways to be a good, decent human being, but being a money-grubbing SOB is extremely unified, simple, and straight-forward. Worship money and have no empathy. That’s it. That’s why cons rarely battle within their little enclaves while the left is often a free-for-all. Literally!
Member
Blues Tiger
The use of ATM cards and electronic banking that would moniter and digitaly record your movements and transactions that could be accessed easily by Government or Law Enforecment was considered a “Tin Foil Hat” Rightwingnut lefty loony Conspiracy Theory in the not so distant past… 😯
How did you feel about the idea of camera’s everywhere in the 70’s?
The ATM thing was never an odd thing to me, of course your bank has this data and if a crime was related to it, not a surprise that law enforcement could get access with a search warrant.
As for cameras in public places, I hate that. Here too,it’s not surprising since cameras have been in banks, casinos, parking structures, malls and plenty of public places for security reasons for a long time. It is the idea of cameras on city streets that I find creepy and a potential slippery slope.
In the UK they have whole towns under complete video surveillance, awful.
OK now I’m throwing this out there knowing the NWO is a woo woo myth and that we are not socially or technologically ready for one world government but isn’t eventual one world government the only way to really stop war and poverty even though we are hundreds if not thousands of years away from that system?
I guess this is my Star Trek, John Lennon Utopian thinking kicking in on this one.
That would really depend on who’s in charge of the apple cart. It could either be a good thing or a “Mad Max” type of thing and I doubt that with so many differing opinions alone just in one country that it would ever work without fighting or wars without compromise, and we know how hard that is.
P.S.
It might just work if we were all high, all of the time. 🙂
Yes kesmarn and for some reason I just had an image of the GOP Senators asking to be excused from the floor of the Senate to look for snacks while giggling at every word spoken.
I’d pay to see “old Misery” Boehner smile for once. 🙂
I know but it could be something which might happen after oil fields across the planet are running dry and there isn’t enough source of energy left for the people who might have survived a global disaster.
I found those films extremely disturbing because I believe that this could happen in the future unless all countries work on alternative energy and growing enough food to feed their population.
In the world of Star Trek, materialism is transcended. Immense amounts of cheap, non-polluting energy and replicators that can create any material object, make money and banks trivial.
Society has come to the conclusion that we are all a part of the same humanity and prejudices no longer trump that.
It is quite an ideal image of the future and certainly worthy of being aspired to.
Mainly, I just want a phaser and a transporter an I’d be cool.
Member
Blues Tiger
I think I could use a decanter of “Blue Romulan Ale” this evening… 😎
You’ve started something now K. I’m about “to venture to a place that no other woman has dared venture before” my kitchen, where I will try to cook some lunch.
I guess I would say that one world government would probably be the BEST way to really stop war and poverty, maybe not the only way. I have a hunch that just about the only thing that would get that accomplished in the next few millenia, though, would be a massive, imminent and totally terrifying threat from the outside. A threat to all of humanity. Then all our petty economic and racial “differences” would have to evaporate in favor of circling-the-wagons solidarity.
Member
Blues Tiger
That would be assumming all the religious fanatics, political idealists, tribal leaders and patriotic nationals would actually agree on the threat…
My personal opinion is that the idea that everyone would lay all differences aside to save the Earth or humanity is a flawed theory, based on the historical records of the human race…
I have to agree if it happened now. Actually the movie “Contact”, great book too, would be a much more likely scenario than say an “Independence Day” scenario. The way the countries of the world reacted to first contact would be like scared little children.
Like FrankenPC said I think a species would have to be so evolve socially and technologically for stellar travel that they would most likely be peaceful. Unless they are as arrogant as humans they would think we are ants.
Member
Blues Tiger
Have you ever considered the theory that we are the most advanced collection of beings in the known universe?
There is always the chance that we are the best that has evolved so far…
If we are that’s pretty pathetic and a huge waste of space if we are the best the universe has to offer. People do think that but I think that’s based on the arrogant way we always look at our species. Frankly humans still think we are the center of the universe in practical terms.
Logically speaking the probability of intelligent life is much higher than the probability of a supreme being. The probability of a supreme being is a null set because there simple is no physical evidence for it’s existence. While the probability that there is sentient life is one because we exist. That changes the mathematics quite a bit. So that makes the probability of other intelligent life not that improbable at all. I know you are not saying there is a supreme being but the comparison holds true.
I know with the cynicism people have these days as opposed to the optimism we had not too long ago the prevailing philosophy for the existence of intelligent life is more pessimistic but I think attitudes have change more than the universe since then.
Now as far the probability of our species contacting other intelligent life, that probability is very low but we’ve only been looking for other species for about 20 years out of our 200,000 years as a species.
Yep, any concept of a One World Government is instantly exploded when one remembers that the Middle East, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc. would necessarily need to be included.
I suppose I’m thinking of how even the most dysfunctional, devour-our-own families will suddenly close ranks and defend themselves from an outside threat, when that arises. I think humans have that instinct.
Member
Blues Tiger
Cher, The only comments I could find about NWO referred to Global Banking and Global Corporations, I couldn’t find any mention of President Obama… So I fail to understand the inquisitioning nature of your line of questioning… 😀
BT, I certainly didn’t mean it as an inquisition, but just a straight question.
You replied to Javaz somewhat cryptically. I am just asking what you agree with her about, if you don’t mind stating that, because she made several statements, and I have no idea which you were agreeing with, or if you agree with her about her opinion that –in the context of out discussion about Obama– she said she thought we were fighting a New World Order.
Whether she meant that Obama is part of that, I’ll let her explain. I took it to mean she does.
I think some people fail to understand you need people inside and outside the system for real change. Inside the system is the hardest work because you still have to deal with most of the rules in the system.
I know I fought the system from the inside on improving the environment. I use to get the same criticisms by people at my environmental club for working on the inside. But I would always tell them someone on the inside had to put into practice the environmental changes everyone wants.
My strategy was simple but effective. I read up on all the European environmental regulations and every product I made when I had the power fit those stiffer regs. I got hell from the inside because there is almost always a higher cost with environmentally clean chemicals. I’m proud that I had a substantial impact on cleaning the rivers near papermills by using much more biodegradable surfactants than the current art.
A purist would say just don’t be involved in that industry and picket it or something. The one’s on the inside pressure you to buy the cheapest raw materials to make more money. So I understand the type of criticism people who are in the system get from within and form external purists quite well. But I’ll tell you I’ve helped clean up more rivers from at least what our companies were adding more than any purist did by screaming on the sidelines, especially under such a hostile Republican environment when I was working.
KQ Most people are not mature enough to deal with that reality. It is much more emotionally satisfying to blame and slam the door.
having said that, I also– as I think you do– think there is an honorable place for protests and dissent. The important– and tricky– thing is to be sure we are protesting the right target. Those who are working on the inside to fix it are not the target.
I agree we did protest with our environmental club trying to save wetlands from developers. I’m honestly saying I had much more effect on the inside working the system. I have empathy for the people doing it from the inside because I’ve been there and many people on the outside characterize us all incorrectly.
KQ — I used to work for a bank (a couple banks). I used to travel a lot demonstrating a software system for international bankers who handle import/export transactions through letters of credit. Aside from ignorant people asking me if I could get them a loan, I had this one liberal friend who constantly got on my case about working for a bank. He had demonized all bankers. I eventually came to the conclusion that his brain had been unplugged and he relied only on ideology to do his “thinking” for him. Believe it or not, the vast majority of the international bankers I worked with were very liberal — like me. Granted, these weren’t investment bankers. Banks have a lot of different departments. And most of the people who work there aren’t debils.
People who think your profession defines you politics, except in extreme situations, just don’t understand how life works. My wife went to work as a systems developer with in an insurance company because her mother was hassled by insurance companies before her death and she wanted to change things. About half the people she worked with were about improving care and helping people and of course you had the people that just saw the bottom line. She likened it to a constant civil war and the major piece of software she developed was controversial because it actually was worked to pay for more claims overall which was offset by catching fraud. She left in 1999 because the civil war took it’s toll. I know dealing with insurance companies with healthcare (when I had it) or my disability there are people who care and those that simply don’t. The ironic part of my situation is that the private disability has approved my income with no delays or breaks for over four years but I still can’t get Federal SSDI because it’s administered by the state of GA and they won’t give you your entitlement until you have your day in court. So I have a very different experience and while I favor the public option to compete with private insurance I have no allusions that it would be so much better than private insurance once government puts restrictions on them.
I must go as my husband is sitting outside on the patio, and I really want to spend time with him, but this site is so addictive, and I so love it.
I’ve got my mojo back on the blogging thing, thanks to my husband, and he’s never ever blogged before, but he’s written 2 articles here and he drops off an occasional comment.
Plus, he’s more into the GROW than even I am.
He’s been keeping in touch with that guy who produced a documentary, and my husband’s plans for this site and GROW are even bigger than mine.
Have a good night all, and it was much fun sparring with you and agreeing with you.
Night Javaz
We can disagree here and we do all the time because there are alot of opinions and it never hurts to question. If we did not we would be like the other sheep out there, but at the end of the day, we can sign off with a cordial good nite.
Member
Blues Tiger
Have a good night javaz, just so you know your not alone in how you feel about certain things…
Sorry, BT, but Javaz said earlier that she believed that Obama is ushering in a NWO . So I don’t know what you mean when you are in agreement “about certain things…”
Where left meets right. Very interesting. I’m thinking of several posters over yonder with whom I’ve exchanged some nasty posts. For them, Obama is a “colluding criminal,” which seems ridiculous to me. Are these the same folks?
They also got a good supply of Mallo Bars in this year, yummy. I had to order them on the internet because they usually do not have them on the west coast. Now I have a supply in my freezer
Talking about ordering stuff, I just received my PlanetPOV t-shirts, it only took a month, I thought they had ended up in China. They are very well made but a word of warning, I like my clothes roomy because of painful shoulder joints, the L size wasn’t as roomy as I thought they would be, just in case everyone else decides that they would rather not squash and flatten their attributes/assets 🙂
Cher
I think it is strange that was brought up. I do not remember him ever saying that. Now Bush 1, Clinton, and others yes, but I have never heard Obama talk about it. Maybe I just missed that. The first pres to talk about it was Woodrow Wilson………….
I am referring to a comment Javaz made this afternoon. I thought that’s what BT meant. I would like to know if anyone else feels that Obama is part of a NWO. I am upset about it.
Of course he’s not otherwise why is he trying to change your country for the better, why does he care more about what is right for the people and why has he accomplished more in his first year (undocumented by your media or the net) than almost any other President since President Roosevelt?
What you are hearing is just the constant complaints from people who have no patience, who expected Obama to arrive bearing a magic wand with which to change Washington overnight. When that didn’t happen, they forgot their promises to him and started blaming him instead, it’s easier that way.
No, I knew that I guess I was not clear, I think the whole thing is ridiculous and cannot figure out how that deduction was made by Javaz. I guess I will go back and try to find her reasoning
If it helps you to feel better and vent your anger against me because you think we disagree, then feel free.
But if you’ve ever read anything with an open mind that I’ve written here, you would recognize that we agree more than we disagree.
Broad-brushing people and labeling them is so unfair, and this is supposed to be a site whereby we are supposed to have the ability to disagree with respect for each others opinions.
The chat continues here…
Well I can see I missed some lively conversation. I have been over in the “write your own blog” area writing for my series on the Christian Right. So I will just say good night to everyone here.
And Kalima
If you like chocolate, coconut and marshmallow all rolled in to one small candy cup, you would love Mallo Bars or Cups as they are legally called. They are similar to a Cup O Gold that we used to have here in the states but generally were only sold on the east coast, kind of like certain brands of chips are only sold back east. They are all my favorite things in one concoction.
I do and I would. Good night Sue and take care.
Instead of speculating on another financial crash over there which would include us in Europe and Asia again too, I would be more worried about the 80% of economic growth in China and their impending or by some accounts, already in progress housing “bubble” and what it would mean to America if China suddenly decided to ask for the return of their loans. As it stands now, it appears that China “owns” almost 60% of America.
http://www.thechinaexpat.com/china-housing-bubble/
Kalima, don’t you wonder if China wouldn’t be in the same position that American banks are in, regarding their customers’ credit card debt? When it comes to demanding repayment, the answer might be: “Take a ticket and get in line!”
LOL, I could just imagine the Chinese reaction to that line.
Me too! 🙄
It certainly wouldn’t be “????ok.” It’s supposed to read “Well ok then.”
WordPress wouldn’t print my Chinese characters, they inserted ???? instead, what a bummer.
LOL! Kalima, the quizzical “????” works as a representation of the expressions on their faces.
Kind of a “huh???” look!
I thought that I would shock everyone with my knowledge of Chinese???? and look what happened, oh the shame! 😳
Hey! No shame! We are all already fully cognizant of your amazing linguistic abilities!
As far as I can tell, you can communicate in German, Japanese, English and Chinese, right? Any others? I’m jealous!
😆 Your flattery consumes me. As for my Chinese, I spent 2 weeks in Hong Kong years ago, does that count?
You’re preaching to the choir. How many times I’ve wanted to insert Farsi and Hindi, I cannot tell you.
🙂 I’m glad that I’m not alone but so annoying and how dare they change it into question marks. How very rude!!
Actually, the ironic thing is that China could be in the position the U.S. Government was in and the U.S. would be in the position of U.S. banks.
China would have to see the U.S. as
Gigantic world-wide games of chicken!
What fun.
Just had a final thought. Will the American debt-laden public ever be put into the ‘too big to fail’ category by the American banking system?
Because, in a very real sense, we are.
Now, that I’ve babbled my last babble, I’ll sign off for the night! ‘Night, all!
Good night kesmarn, thanks for the laughs, especially the “man-tan” down below on the thread.
Rest well and take care.
Good night, Kalima! Wish I could take credit for having made that one up, but I read it somewhere!
I missed crossing paths with b’ito today, somehow. If you see him, tell him I said hello/good-bye. Till tomorrow!
It’s a first for me so take the credit.
I didn’t see bito today but will pass on your Hello when I see him. Good night.
Just to clarify, sometimes NWO is conflated with corporate domination, one represents a global conspiracy while the other merely represents that those with the most wealth have the most power.
The degree of control varies from nation to nation though the intent is simple, the more the wealthy can control the political and social power in a nation, the wealthier and more dominant they will be.
Where there’s a fork in the road is whether there is a grander vision and collaboration on One Global Government.
Just understanding the insatiable greed and lust for power of these entities would tip one off to how undesirable it would be to them to accede ultimate power over to others or an overall organization.
Certainly, there is collusion on how entities conduct themselves in different regions but I would suggest it is more like, “You can rob from your people there if I can rob the same way from people over here.” And, “Hey, wouldn’t it be great for our profit margins if we could eliminate the middle class and turn them into low paid serfs, heavily in debt and struggling to pay their bills so they’re desperate for whatever salary we offer them?”
That dynamic is very simple. With a strong middle class, more revenue was shared with workers, CEOs earned about 30 times the salary of their average employee. Today it is 300 times. Do any CEOs want to go back to making 1/10th of what they’re making today so the balance can be shared with employees? Of course they want to keep chopping away at the middle class, they profit from it.
So, IMO, there is a lot of consensus and collaboration among the wealthiest people and corporations around the world on economic and political control but I see them as independent tyrants.
At least OPEC makes no bones about the fact that they collude.
BTW get ready for $3.5-5.0/gal gas in the next few months with the election year and the end of the two year contracts coming. It won’t be quite as bad because of our deflationary period but they will spike. It’s interesting the contracts coincide with American Congressional election cycle for the House.
One of the oddly forgotten incidents that accelerated the economic crash was the price manipulation and inflation of oil and gas.
Seeing what was coming down the pike, the oil and gas industry acted like the banks in trying to grab as much as they could before the hammer came down and in the process, hastened and deepened the economic crash.
They sucked billions out of consumer pockets just before the crash.
And people seem to have completely forgotten $5.00 – $6.00/gallon gas and not being able to afford filling up their tank.
There was widespread knowledge among banks, corporations and the wealthy that the crash was coming, well before it happened.
What’s worrying is that we don’t know what they know right now. Is another crash coming? We won’t know until it happens. But we should learn from what happened this time around, any juicing or accelerating of price hikes could be an indicator of corps trying to grab what they can before an impending crash hits.
Many people are warning about it… We warned about the last one for years but few listened…
I am trying to keep up with what is happening in Europe… The Pound Sterling may be in trouble and there are some who are wanting to make a move against the dollar and replace the standard it is used for by another currency…
People do seem to have amnesia on that, AdLib (and on so many other things, too). Those hyper-inflated gas prices caused people to run up lots more credit card debt. They had to get to work, and at $50 a crack to fill up (if they were lucky) their tanks, they were forced to pull out the plastic. It’s going to take years just to pay off the gas that was charged during that Bush era price-gouging spree.
And now we may be in for round two.
Add to that the complication that people have less credit available from using it up then and since then, maybe even due to being out of work.
Add to that, the banks have slashed the credit limits on credit cards and this time, it could be far more serious.
Indeed! We may not have seen the worst of this by a long shot. I hope I’m wrong.
One of the earliest uses of the term “New World Order” though, was during the second administration of Woodrow Wilson.
“At the end of the war, U.S. President Woodrow Wilson led the international effort to establish a new world order that would guarantee world peace and stability. Central to this process was the creation of the League of Nations, an inter-governmental organization (i.e., an organization based on a formal agreement between three or more governments of nation-states) whose primary function was to keep peace in the world through ordered relationships among the member nations.”
The term seems to have morphed several times since then.
Yes, it was clearly intended then to mean a new era of peaceful cooperation between nations.
As you say, the phrase was morphed over time into meaning a fascist One Global Government conspiracy.
My question is, how many huge conspiracy theories ever turned out to be correct?
Exactly, AdLib.
The uber-wealthy really have no need to conspire. They’re so naturally in sync with each other’s goals and tactics that they don’t have to.
I apologize for repeating myself by saying that there are a million diverse ways to be a good, decent human being, but being a money-grubbing SOB is extremely unified, simple, and straight-forward. Worship money and have no empathy. That’s it. That’s why cons rarely battle within their little enclaves while the left is often a free-for-all. Literally!
The use of ATM cards and electronic banking that would moniter and digitaly record your movements and transactions that could be accessed easily by Government or Law Enforecment was considered a “Tin Foil Hat” Rightwingnut lefty loony Conspiracy Theory in the not so distant past… 😯
How did you feel about the idea of camera’s everywhere in the 70’s?
The ATM thing was never an odd thing to me, of course your bank has this data and if a crime was related to it, not a surprise that law enforcement could get access with a search warrant.
As for cameras in public places, I hate that. Here too,it’s not surprising since cameras have been in banks, casinos, parking structures, malls and plenty of public places for security reasons for a long time. It is the idea of cameras on city streets that I find creepy and a potential slippery slope.
In the UK they have whole towns under complete video surveillance, awful.
I still say Bah
(In best school marm voice) “Are you being facetious, young man? A little less levity here! Tsk. Tsk.” 😉
OK now I’m throwing this out there knowing the NWO is a woo woo myth and that we are not socially or technologically ready for one world government but isn’t eventual one world government the only way to really stop war and poverty even though we are hundreds if not thousands of years away from that system?
I guess this is my Star Trek, John Lennon Utopian thinking kicking in on this one.
That would really depend on who’s in charge of the apple cart. It could either be a good thing or a “Mad Max” type of thing and I doubt that with so many differing opinions alone just in one country that it would ever work without fighting or wars without compromise, and we know how hard that is.
P.S.
It might just work if we were all high, all of the time. 🙂
@ P.S. – that isn’t such a bad suggestion, regardless. 8)
Was that a P.S. to my P.S??
It was in response to it. 😉
Great, but we’d never get a thing done. 🙂
Maybe that would be a good thing, Kalima! Idle hands have created plenty of mischief!
Uh, what were we talking about…?
Yes kesmarn and for some reason I just had an image of the GOP Senators asking to be excused from the floor of the Senate to look for snacks while giggling at every word spoken.
I’d pay to see “old Misery” Boehner smile for once. 🙂
Kalima, his man-tan might crack and shatter and fall to the House floor. That would make everybody smile. 😆
😆 kesmarn, “man-tan” precious!!
Ouch “Mad Max”! Now that’s a bad picture.
I know but it could be something which might happen after oil fields across the planet are running dry and there isn’t enough source of energy left for the people who might have survived a global disaster.
I found those films extremely disturbing because I believe that this could happen in the future unless all countries work on alternative energy and growing enough food to feed their population.
If the bankers of the world were not involved, it might be a nice thing, one race and that is mankind……………….
In the world of Star Trek, materialism is transcended. Immense amounts of cheap, non-polluting energy and replicators that can create any material object, make money and banks trivial.
Society has come to the conclusion that we are all a part of the same humanity and prejudices no longer trump that.
It is quite an ideal image of the future and certainly worthy of being aspired to.
Mainly, I just want a phaser and a transporter an I’d be cool.
I think I could use a decanter of “Blue Romulan Ale” this evening… 😎
It’s also a tenet of the Bah
If we ever encounter beings from another planet, we’ll have a world government in about ten minutes.
Heh. e’cat, I think we were typing at the same time. I was just a little more windy about it! 😀
Hehe. I’m a minimalist!
Depends on the nature and time of that contact.
You’ve started something now K. I’m about “to venture to a place that no other woman has dared venture before” my kitchen, where I will try to cook some lunch.
See you in a bit.
Yup woman have found the miracle drug that makes them 50% smarter then men called estrogen. I know you’ve heard that one before but just saying.
Yes, I’ve heard it before 🙂 but my Japanese hubby won’t believe it. It’s not a thing men should believe over here, they might lose face or something.
Silly really, I’m awfully good at finding things.
I guess I would say that one world government would probably be the BEST way to really stop war and poverty, maybe not the only way. I have a hunch that just about the only thing that would get that accomplished in the next few millenia, though, would be a massive, imminent and totally terrifying threat from the outside. A threat to all of humanity. Then all our petty economic and racial “differences” would have to evaporate in favor of circling-the-wagons solidarity.
That would be assumming all the religious fanatics, political idealists, tribal leaders and patriotic nationals would actually agree on the threat…
My personal opinion is that the idea that everyone would lay all differences aside to save the Earth or humanity is a flawed theory, based on the historical records of the human race…
I have to agree if it happened now. Actually the movie “Contact”, great book too, would be a much more likely scenario than say an “Independence Day” scenario. The way the countries of the world reacted to first contact would be like scared little children.
Like FrankenPC said I think a species would have to be so evolve socially and technologically for stellar travel that they would most likely be peaceful. Unless they are as arrogant as humans they would think we are ants.
Have you ever considered the theory that we are the most advanced collection of beings in the known universe?
There is always the chance that we are the best that has evolved so far…
Excluding teabaggers of course.
The sad thing is that people on another planet who think we exist will be ridiculed mercilessly with “tinfoil hat” jokes.
…What a depressing thought…
🙁
If we are that’s pretty pathetic and a huge waste of space if we are the best the universe has to offer. People do think that but I think that’s based on the arrogant way we always look at our species. Frankly humans still think we are the center of the universe in practical terms.
Logically speaking the probability of intelligent life is much higher than the probability of a supreme being. The probability of a supreme being is a null set because there simple is no physical evidence for it’s existence. While the probability that there is sentient life is one because we exist. That changes the mathematics quite a bit. So that makes the probability of other intelligent life not that improbable at all. I know you are not saying there is a supreme being but the comparison holds true.
I know with the cynicism people have these days as opposed to the optimism we had not too long ago the prevailing philosophy for the existence of intelligent life is more pessimistic but I think attitudes have change more than the universe since then.
Now as far the probability of our species contacting other intelligent life, that probability is very low but we’ve only been looking for other species for about 20 years out of our 200,000 years as a species.
Yep, any concept of a One World Government is instantly exploded when one remembers that the Middle East, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc. would necessarily need to be included.
Oh, and Alaska too.
I suppose I’m thinking of how even the most dysfunctional, devour-our-own families will suddenly close ranks and defend themselves from an outside threat, when that arises. I think humans have that instinct.
Cher, The only comments I could find about NWO referred to Global Banking and Global Corporations, I couldn’t find any mention of President Obama… So I fail to understand the inquisitioning nature of your line of questioning… 😀
BT, I certainly didn’t mean it as an inquisition, but just a straight question.
You replied to Javaz somewhat cryptically. I am just asking what you agree with her about, if you don’t mind stating that, because she made several statements, and I have no idea which you were agreeing with, or if you agree with her about her opinion that –in the context of out discussion about Obama– she said she thought we were fighting a New World Order.
Whether she meant that Obama is part of that, I’ll let her explain. I took it to mean she does.
I think some people fail to understand you need people inside and outside the system for real change. Inside the system is the hardest work because you still have to deal with most of the rules in the system.
I know I fought the system from the inside on improving the environment. I use to get the same criticisms by people at my environmental club for working on the inside. But I would always tell them someone on the inside had to put into practice the environmental changes everyone wants.
My strategy was simple but effective. I read up on all the European environmental regulations and every product I made when I had the power fit those stiffer regs. I got hell from the inside because there is almost always a higher cost with environmentally clean chemicals. I’m proud that I had a substantial impact on cleaning the rivers near papermills by using much more biodegradable surfactants than the current art.
A purist would say just don’t be involved in that industry and picket it or something. The one’s on the inside pressure you to buy the cheapest raw materials to make more money. So I understand the type of criticism people who are in the system get from within and form external purists quite well. But I’ll tell you I’ve helped clean up more rivers from at least what our companies were adding more than any purist did by screaming on the sidelines, especially under such a hostile Republican environment when I was working.
KQ Most people are not mature enough to deal with that reality. It is much more emotionally satisfying to blame and slam the door.
having said that, I also– as I think you do– think there is an honorable place for protests and dissent. The important– and tricky– thing is to be sure we are protesting the right target. Those who are working on the inside to fix it are not the target.
I agree we did protest with our environmental club trying to save wetlands from developers. I’m honestly saying I had much more effect on the inside working the system. I have empathy for the people doing it from the inside because I’ve been there and many people on the outside characterize us all incorrectly.
Yep, I agree.
KQ — I used to work for a bank (a couple banks). I used to travel a lot demonstrating a software system for international bankers who handle import/export transactions through letters of credit. Aside from ignorant people asking me if I could get them a loan, I had this one liberal friend who constantly got on my case about working for a bank. He had demonized all bankers. I eventually came to the conclusion that his brain had been unplugged and he relied only on ideology to do his “thinking” for him. Believe it or not, the vast majority of the international bankers I worked with were very liberal — like me. Granted, these weren’t investment bankers. Banks have a lot of different departments. And most of the people who work there aren’t debils.
People who think your profession defines you politics, except in extreme situations, just don’t understand how life works. My wife went to work as a systems developer with in an insurance company because her mother was hassled by insurance companies before her death and she wanted to change things. About half the people she worked with were about improving care and helping people and of course you had the people that just saw the bottom line. She likened it to a constant civil war and the major piece of software she developed was controversial because it actually was worked to pay for more claims overall which was offset by catching fraud. She left in 1999 because the civil war took it’s toll. I know dealing with insurance companies with healthcare (when I had it) or my disability there are people who care and those that simply don’t. The ironic part of my situation is that the private disability has approved my income with no delays or breaks for over four years but I still can’t get Federal SSDI because it’s administered by the state of GA and they won’t give you your entitlement until you have your day in court. So I have a very different experience and while I favor the public option to compete with private insurance I have no allusions that it would be so much better than private insurance once government puts restrictions on them.
I must go as my husband is sitting outside on the patio, and I really want to spend time with him, but this site is so addictive, and I so love it.
I’ve got my mojo back on the blogging thing, thanks to my husband, and he’s never ever blogged before, but he’s written 2 articles here and he drops off an occasional comment.
Plus, he’s more into the GROW than even I am.
He’s been keeping in touch with that guy who produced a documentary, and my husband’s plans for this site and GROW are even bigger than mine.
Have a good night all, and it was much fun sparring with you and agreeing with you.
I thought you started the call for GROW.
Night Javaz
We can disagree here and we do all the time because there are alot of opinions and it never hurts to question. If we did not we would be like the other sheep out there, but at the end of the day, we can sign off with a cordial good nite.
Have a good night javaz, just so you know your not alone in how you feel about certain things…
BT, do you also think that Obama is ushering in a New World Order?
Thats an odd question…
Sorry, BT, but Javaz said earlier that she believed that Obama is ushering in a NWO . So I don’t know what you mean when you are in agreement “about certain things…”
That NWO stuff is pretty far on the rightwing fringe.
And leftwing unfortunately.
Yup, KQ is right; unfortunately.
Where left meets right. Very interesting. I’m thinking of several posters over yonder with whom I’ve exchanged some nasty posts. For them, Obama is a “colluding criminal,” which seems ridiculous to me. Are these the same folks?
I’d guess they are e’cat. People who believe that are every bit as bad as the far RW in my opinion.
Cher — I agree 100%.
Hmm, I missed that. I guess, I’d like to know in what context, to fair. Like, seriously meant?
Edit: I caught it below – I think it was an honest mistake to bring up.
Read it and decide. Maybe I am wrong. I HOPE I am wrong!!
It’s on the Vox Pop or OT thread at 1:38 PM
How can one make an honest mistake if one is stating what they believe?
Oh God, does this mean that I have to buy more rolls of tin foil??
You can get a good deal at the dollar store………..both the sheets and the rolls, you get variety
😆 I’ll send you a check to cover it, plus shipping.
They also got a good supply of Mallo Bars in this year, yummy. I had to order them on the internet because they usually do not have them on the west coast. Now I have a supply in my freezer
Talking about ordering stuff, I just received my PlanetPOV t-shirts, it only took a month, I thought they had ended up in China. They are very well made but a word of warning, I like my clothes roomy because of painful shoulder joints, the L size wasn’t as roomy as I thought they would be, just in case everyone else decides that they would rather not squash and flatten their attributes/assets 🙂
Mallo bars, am I missing something good?
Cher
I think it is strange that was brought up. I do not remember him ever saying that. Now Bush 1, Clinton, and others yes, but I have never heard Obama talk about it. Maybe I just missed that. The first pres to talk about it was Woodrow Wilson………….
I am referring to a comment Javaz made this afternoon. I thought that’s what BT meant. I would like to know if anyone else feels that Obama is part of a NWO. I am upset about it.
Cher, I don’t even know any conservatives who think that.
Of course he’s not otherwise why is he trying to change your country for the better, why does he care more about what is right for the people and why has he accomplished more in his first year (undocumented by your media or the net) than almost any other President since President Roosevelt?
What you are hearing is just the constant complaints from people who have no patience, who expected Obama to arrive bearing a magic wand with which to change Washington overnight. When that didn’t happen, they forgot their promises to him and started blaming him instead, it’s easier that way.
No, I knew that I guess I was not clear, I think the whole thing is ridiculous and cannot figure out how that deduction was made by Javaz. I guess I will go back and try to find her reasoning
Here is a good article from The New Republic pointing out in detail the big difference between Dems and Repubs on HCR.
http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/sink-or-swim
McShame said it all at the second debate, HC is a privilege, not a right.
Yup Republicans only want HC for the privileged in this country.
If it helps you to feel better and vent your anger against me because you think we disagree, then feel free.
But if you’ve ever read anything with an open mind that I’ve written here, you would recognize that we agree more than we disagree.
Broad-brushing people and labeling them is so unfair, and this is supposed to be a site whereby we are supposed to have the ability to disagree with respect for each others opinions.