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jan4insight
Guest

Well, folks, it’s time for me turn in – I’m heading off to really fun art workshop in the morning (mixed media – we get to play with paint, paper, glue, glitter, markers & more 🙂 for the next 2 days) so I’d best get some shut-eye!

Sleep tight, everyone.

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Kalima
Admin

Good night jan4insight. Sleep well and have a great time tomorrow.

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jan4insight
Guest

News flash: HP has not one but two articles supporting Obama running now!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-benen/a-tale-of-two-responses_b_416507.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mitchell-bard/after-the-underwear-bombe_b_412134.html

I’m posting to see if I’m dreaming 😉 And both stories are well worth reading, btw!

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escribacat
Member

They’re already talking about Geithner’s replacement over there. Anyone else hear that Geithner got ousted or is that just in Huffyland?

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Kalima
Admin

My 5 pence worth on people’s expectations of President Obama. It took Bush 8 years to destroy your country, give the President at least his 4 years to try to fix Bush’s [email protected] pile.

How does anyone really know the ins and outs of everything he has been trying to accomplish with the lawyers behind closed doors, the closing of those loopholes Bush opened during his 2 terms can’t be an easy thing to figure out. I have never seen so much negativity by people in his own party after only a year. Everyone expects change and this is what he is trying to do but his own words “It won’t be easy. I can’t do this alone” haunt me. As much as you expected from him, he expected from all of you. Some of his base have let him down especially on HCR, the bickering about saving lives has really been an eye opener, the armchair critics a pain in the arse. Let the man try to do his job.

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escribacat
Member

I agree, Kalima. I voted for Hillary in the primary but grew to like Obama during the regular campaign. I was moved to tears when he was elected. Now I disagree with some of his policies and decisions but still think he’s the best thing that has happened to this country in a long time.

I think a lot of people believed that our whole nation had suddenly changed when he was elected. Then everyone woke up and realized the country is the same. Big disappointment — and it must be his fault!

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Khirad
Member

Whereas a lot of others “want their country back”.

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escribacat
Member

How ironic is that?

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Khirad
Member

I still want to know where it went. It seemed to disappear immediately on Jan 21. That was some David Copperfield, Mindfreak type thing. I wish he could withdraw troops and make them disappear that quickly, given his miraculous powers of ‘black’ magic.

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Kalima
Admin

I cried along with all of you, didn’t sleep a wink. When my hubby came back from work, we sat together hand in hand and watched the whole speech again.

I have American friends of 30 years, I wept for them and their families, it felt good.

Having disagreement with the President about certain policies is normal, jumping on his every move, every uttered word, is not.

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KQµårk 死神
Member

I think a lot of people believed that our whole nation had suddenly changed when he was elected. Then everyone woke up and realized the country is the same. Big disappointment

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KQµårk 死神
Member

Kalima in many ways you are the voice of reason.

I was just thinking this has to be the most over analyzed president in history. Why because people expect so much. It really goes back almost 30 years in politics when the right started destroying this country. For only 2 of those years Democrats had the White House and the presidency. Now people are only going to give Obama only two years because he’s not progressive enough. C’mon that’s just ignorant thinking.

Can you imagine if the public only gave FDR two years? Oh and remember it’s only one year because the second is an election year. It’s not like all the problems he faced were anywhere near fixed in 2 or 4 years for that matter. Liberal Dems were not happy at all with FDR and the limits on SS at the time.

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Kalima
Admin

K I’m just so very tired of the negativity, you expect it from the RW, your tiresome, irrational MSM and the so-called self professed pundits who make my hair stand on end but not this constant nitpicking from people who should know better or are supposed to know the inside view of Washington. It’s as if they all want him to fail and it makes my soul sick to the very core of me.

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, he is EVERYONE’S President, why is that so bloody hard to understand, do they want to cut him into small pieces so that everyone can have their share?

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jan4insight
Guest

Well said, Kalima! If this were HP I’d fan you 😉

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Kalima
Admin

Thank you jan4insight, that is awfully sweet of you. At times like this, I wish that I had a sound proofed “Scream Room.”

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jan4insight
Guest

I feel your pain 😉

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jan4insight
Guest

If I may repost something from AdLib up here, where y’all can see it:

“What many of us think he should have done is use his mandate to slam through bold initiatives and if the Repubs in Congress whined, mow them down with moving public opinion against them or tossing out the filibuster.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I disagree, and this is where I part company with many of my fellow prog’s. I think it would have been an absolute disaster if he’d tried that. You think Repub obstructionism is bad now? It would have been impeachment time in 3,2,1 – for real – or worse! Also, I think the mandate is highly fragile – that magic 60-vote thing in the Senate never was real, as we’ve seen thanks to quisling Joe LIEberman.

It’s been painful watching Obama go through the bipartisan route, but I absolutely think it was necessary. It has shown the great middle of the spectrum what the deal is, and now and in the next year when the gloves start really coming off, he’ll have a much stronger basis for unilateral action because no one (except the most delusional wingers) can say he hasn’t tried to work with both parties.

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KQµårk 死神
Member

I can only speak for myself and I’ve lived down South for 18 years and GA for almost 10. I have no choice at the polls. A Dem is not going to win in my area no matter how I vote. Every four years I actually get a chance to vote for a Dem who can win.

I also think trying to move past partisanship is like trying to strive for world peace. Always a worthwhile goal no matter how impossible it is.

Most of all I knew Obama was not a partisan mirror image of Bush. If I wanted that I would have voted differently in the primaries.

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escribacat
Member

I used to feel that way living in Colorado and last year, a miracle occurred! All Blue! (for now anyway)

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jan4insight
Guest

KQ, you’re making me really grateful I live in a state (NM) that went solid blue in 2008!

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Khirad
Member

Any word on Val Kilmer? Or am I behind on that? 😉

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KQµårk 死神
Member

I wish I lived in a state that would swing once in a while.

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Khirad
Member

Not since it swung from Dixiecrat. 😉

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KQµårk 死神
Member

That ended when Chamblis stole the Senate seat from Max Cleeland.

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KQµårk 死神
Member

Tell me about it.

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Khirad
Member

That still makes me furious.

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Pepe Lepew
Member

Montana has two Democratic Senators and a Democratic governor. They’re all relatively conservative … but you should see the Montana Republicans … they’re just crazy! Even for Republicans. My state senator and state rep are Democrats.

And Obama only lost by 11,000 votes in 2008, which was kind of amazing.

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Khirad
Member

That is amazing. I remember Montana being in play pretty late.

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Khirad
Member

I gotta love Montana in a way. Classic libertarian in many respects. Love the guns and the Mary Jane!

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Pepe Lepew
Member

We all honestly thought Obama would win Montana. The NRA came at him hard and heavy in Montana and they’re pretty powerful here.

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KQµårk 死神
Member

Adlib and Cher if you support Obama why do you since you feel like he lied?

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nellie
Member

You know, I’m beginning to think that one of the reasons I’m not disappointed in Obama is because he was never progressive enough for me. I was hanging out w Green Party folks, and Obama was not our idea of the future. So I felt I was already compromising when I voted for him.

Now I’m pleasantly surprised.

Good question, K. I’m interested in the answers. But I’ll have to see them tomorrow. G nite all.

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Khirad
Member

I’m inner Green, but pragmatically Democrat. I felt the same. I’m pleasantly surprised. I never got Obama fever. Sure, I got excited and volunteered and jumped up and down when he won, but I never set up expectations or illusions that he would do everything he said. He is, after all, but a politician and a human, with real circumstances to deal with. I am disappointed on a few things, but will be interested to see if he waits on DADT and DOMA until after midterms, or uses it to rev up the progressive base after HCR.

G’night, Nellie.

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escribacat
Member

Khirad, that is a perfect description: Inner green but pragmatically Democrat.

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KQµårk 死神
Member

I just said last night for me the only promises he’s flat out not kept up with is ending DADT and DOMA.

I also have no illusions that he was not a politician. He was purposely coy on many issues especially foreign policy and terrorism specifics. In fact he talked tough on terror like every mainstream pol does. He never said he would prosecute Bush and he always said he would just look into Bush procedures. Things like ending torture he was explicit and a timetable to leave Iraq he kept his word on.

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KQµårk 死神
Member

Like I said in another post I’m a Democrat. I don’t know of any other viable progressive party. But I do know the only progressives that are part of running US government are in my party. As far as being progressive those are my political leanings on the issues.

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Chernynkaya
Member

I still believe he is a good prez. i really do, even though he has disappointed me on financial reform and his hands-off approach to health care. Financial reform will be his downfall, if ther eis one, IMO. Afghanistan is something I am also unhappy about, but I do trust him even there.

But the biggest reason I support him is that I basically trust him. Plus– and this is huge– I absolutely abhor the right. I am a yellow dog dem. I will always vote Dem.

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KQµårk 死神
Member

I think he rides or dies on the economy and healthcare. I think most Americans have forgot about financial regulations. The most important part is because we are in such a deflationary period there are no bubbles to explode anymore.

I don’t know if I could support him and definitely not trust him if I were you. Nellie and I saw a far different candidate. Obama’s vision is still progressive compared to the center but he’s ultra pragmatic in practice. Most of all he’s not a partisan by nature.

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BigDogMom
Member
BigDogMom

Well kids I’m pooping out, I urge all of you to watch Bill Moyers’ Journal that aired tonight, this goes along with what we have been talking about O, the economy, Geithner and big banks…

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/blog/2010/01/complex_issues_public_outrage.html#comments

Wish you all a good night and sweet dreams…

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Scheherazade
Member

Jinx! 😉 Hehe. Night night.

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Scheherazade
Member

One more thing and I’ll stop posting links. I promise! XD

I’d like to recommend this to anyone who missed it tonight on PBS.

David Corn and Kevin Drum on Bill Moyers Journal

You can watch the video and read the transcript here.

The subject is Wall Street’s close ties with Washington and other obstacles to financial reform. There’s even more reporting on the subject here too.

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Chernynkaya
Member

I will do that first thing tomorrow– thank you yet again! That martini is kicking in and I’m getting slurry in my typing. 🙂

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BigDogMom
Member
BigDogMom

Lord have mercy…you beat me to it!

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Scheherazade
Member

OMG! Now here’s something noteworthy!

Washington Times headline – Geithner called to explain AIG bailout secrecy

I believe Cher pointed out that a similar main was on HP this afternoon. What does that tell us? Hmmm?

It really says something when a website that’s largely looked upon as progressive is reporting the same story that a right wing paper is.

If I didn’t have such a sensitive gag reflex I’d compare the two articles. I’m sure David Brock would be very interested to find out if the two were basically identical!

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Scheherazade
Member

From tomorrow’s (today’s for those on the east coast) Washington Post:

House panel wants Geithner to testify about New York Fed and AIG

$10.00 says Scarianna is rubbing her hands together like Uriah Heep right now!

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KQµårk 死神
Member

Huffy proves the right are not the only ones who lie when taking on a vendetta. He made big mistakes with the AIG bailout no question but people should not invent things.

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Scheherazade
Member

Would someone please go check huffy to see if the above article is a new main? I’ve sworn that place off. So, I’m not going to look. >.>

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Chernynkaya
Member

It was the headline at about 3pm today.

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Scheherazade
Member

That website is getting too predictable for words.

BTW – allow me to compare something here. Notice what’s the main for…

TPM

Steele: ‘I Wrote This Book Before I Became Chairman’ (Um, Really?)

FDL

Late Night: Color Me Gruber

Salon

Elizabeth Gilbert, the reluctant bride

and Think Progress

Steele on serving as RNC chair: God has

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Khirad
Member

I see a new Rashoman entry!

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Chernynkaya
Member

I want to ask those still here: does anyone besides me think Obama did present himself as at least somewhat Progressive? I am hearing now that he was always a centrist– which he IS AND WAS– but that’s not how he came across to me.

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Khirad
Member

Yes, to make a distinction with Hillary, but most seem peeved that he’s not Kucinich. BTW, my favorite people are those who are both Kucinich and Ron Paul people. Confused souls…

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Chernynkaya
Member

Are they really your favorites are are you being sarcastic?

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Khirad
Member

They are p-r-e-c-i-o-u-s. Yes, heavy sarcasm – thus the confused souls part. 😉

I should be more honest though, I have worse offender categories than them. The other day some guy told me that Ahmadinejad has done more for human rights in Iran than anyone else. I lost it. He is a known Israel-hater. I can’t stand those hypocrites the most right now… but, I digress…

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Khirad
Member

No, exactly. I agree. But people are unreal about their canditatorial (is that a word?) viability. And worse yet, compare them to Ron Paul…

I took one of those quizzes which matched me by policy with a candidate – it put me with Kucinich. That didn’t mean I thought he had a prayer.

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jan4insight
Guest

Cher, I have pretty much always considered him a pragmatic progressive – I don’t think for a minute he’s abandoned progressive ideals or even written off his base. Rather, I think he is very focused on stopping the immediate damage of the Bush years (we could have really gone over a cliff), and getting done what can be done given the massive entrenchment of corporate power that was made even worse under the last guy. I’m also not upset about his bipartisan efforts, as many liberals are. He had to go through this exercise to show for once and for all that the GNoP is a not cooperating, and I think he’s going to move on without them in the future.

Since I would consider myself a pragmatic progressive as well, I have no problem with this. while there are specific things I disagree with, I think he has been amazing considering the unbelievable obstructionism of the G No P – which I think even Obama underestimated at first. I and others are thinking that we will see more of the progressive and “tougher” side of Obama coming out in the light in the coming years, and I’m gonna be loving it 🙂

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Chernynkaya
Member

Thanks Jan, So, if he doesn’t show a tougher side will you be disappointed? I think he needs to show that side too. At this point, I am still more content with Obama than I am dissatisfied, but if there were a viable progressive candidate, I’d vote for him/her over Obama. The main thing though– and it’s a big one for me– is we must prevent the Reptilians from ever regaining power.

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jan4insight
Guest

No, I don’t think I’ll be disappointed and I’m certainly not know – first of all, I think he IS tough and he has shown it – just not in a way that people are used to after years of Repub “make my day” bs.

Many have made the analogy of Obama as the chess player when everyone else is playing checkers, and I think that’s absolutely right-on. (I’d add to that Jedi master and student of Sun Tzu, which I’ve read is one of his favorite sources.) I know he is very focused on long-term results, which often doesn’t play well in a world of instant gratification – sad to say many progressives want instant gratification, hence much of HP’s ability to fuel prog disappointment 😛

And you’re right we must absolutely work to ensure the Repug’s stay a minority that gets smaller by the day. All the more reason we must keep our criticism of the Pres focused, reasoned, and fact-based, and avoid the HP-style gratuitous sliming. Because allowing lib/prog apathy to take hold would just hand it all back to the Rethugs.

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BigDogMom
Member
BigDogMom

No, I believe that at times he did present himself that way and when questioned did not say yes or deny it….played both sides to the middle as they say.

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Chernynkaya
Member

That’s what i think too. But you know, during the campaign, whenever he said something centrist or even kind of Right– like in Afghanistan or the DOMA– I thought that was just to win the middle. I was wrong.

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Chernynkaya
Member

BDM– I think it’s a great idea. But they better not screw up! That’s all the Israelis need.

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Chernynkaya
Member

Is anyone here?

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Kalima
Admin

I’ve been waving the white flag for almost 2 hours now. Had a visit from a friend, she looooves to talk, I’ve just crawled out of my bunker.

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BigDogMom
Member
BigDogMom

Hey Kalima…waves 😆

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Kalima
Admin

Hi BDM, just couldn’t get away. There was no escape!!

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BigDogMom
Member
BigDogMom

Was she the type of friend who continues to talk for 20 min. while your holding the door for her to leave?

I have a friend like that, love her dearly, but…..

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Kalima
Admin

How did you know, yes she does and when I walked her to her car, rolled down the window twice. I love her dearly too but wish that she would talk about people that I actually know as opposed to, will never meet.

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BigDogMom
Member
BigDogMom

Poor Kalima, LOL!

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Chernynkaya
Member

Thank heaven! Civilization!

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Khirad
Member

I’m here for my martini dammit! 😀

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Chernynkaya
Member

I already made mine, Khirad. Here ya go, buddy!

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