A STUDY IN CONTRASTS

President T.T. Trump (Twitter Teleprompter Trump) visited El Paso and Dayton, Ohio, today but apparently could not make a big speech in an open venue for fear of being booed.

In Dayton, his staff made him invisible with his cooperation meeting in private with family, medical staff and political figures. He made NO public appearance and issued no comment. As usual, he and his people avoided any protests or protesters with his caravan taking routes both circuitous, long and secret. It appears that he will do the same in El Paso. As always, he is a coward.

He creates division and anger at a time when the country would normally look to the president for comfort, for unity, for the best in American values.

The contrast between that bitter, little man who occupies the White House, launching twitter attacks against Beto O’Rourke through the night while insisting that his words and actions brings us together, and former vice president Joe Biden, who chose to deliver a big, important speech today in Iowa could not have been more stark.

Biden began by stating what too many Republicans, embarrassed by this president but shamefully still backing him, refuse to admit:

 “The words of a president matter. They can move markets. They can send our brave men and women to war. They can bring peace. They can calm a nation in turmoil. They can console and confront and comfort in times of tragedy … They can appeal to the better angels of our nature. But they can also unleash the deepest, darkest forces in this nation.”

Biden’s tone was both defiant and sad at the same time blasting out each poignant phrase. It was a simple speech. Its message sharp. It called for a courageous response in tones profound and stirring.

Biden recounted the parade of Trump of horrors — from Charlottesville (where Trump claimed there were “very fine people on both sides”) to raising fear of a refugee “invasion” to calling Baltimore a “disgusting rat-infected, and rodent mess (that) no human being” would choose to call home.

Biden reminded us that when he asked a rally crowd in Florida how immigrants should be stopped he got back the answer to “shoot them. Trump grinned pretending it was a jest saying that the comment would only be acceptable in Florida Panhandle.

Biden argued that it “is not far at all” from Trumpian comments to the alleged El Paso murderer’s so called manifesto where  he claimed that his attack was “in response to the Hispanic invasion of Texas,” just as his praise to “very fine” neo-Nazis chanting “you will not replace us” shouted at Charlottesville et.al. is not far at all from the words of the mass murderer at the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh, who said Jews “were committing genocide to his people.”

Biden paused at one point and stared stonily into the crowd and then at the cameras and flat out accused Trump of fanning white nationalism mocking his “low-energy, vacant-eyed mouthing of the words written for him condemning white supremacists this week” that he parrots before crowds when prompted to do so. He faulted Trump for pouring fuel on a fire that white supremacists dance around by using their language, retweeting their messages, and cutting funding to fight domestic, white nationalist terrism.

He called Trump’s looking to steps to address a mental health crisis or too much violence in video games as a phony “dodge.” Biden reminded the audience that he was a co-sponsor and principal author of the assault weapons and that he was ready to do the same again in this arena while committing to root out domestic terrorism with as much vigor as has been devoted to fighting international terrorism.

Biden also contrasted Trump to presidents who stood up at key moments in history (e.g., George H.W. Bush turning in his NRA membership, Bill Clinton’s speech after the Oklahoma City bombing in the rubble of a flattened public building, George W. Bush’s mosque visit after 9/11, Barack Obama’s sermon after the Charleston, S.C., massacre).

But today, Biden said,  

“Our president has aligned himself with the darkest forces in this nation. And it makes winning the battle for the soul of this nation that much tougher, harder.”

At the root of his poor performance as President, Biden made the case that Trump fundamentally doesn’t understand the job.

“Trump offers no moral leadership; seems to have no interest in unifying this nation, no evidence the presidency has awakened his conscience in the least…Indeed we have a president with a toxic tongue who has publicly and unapologetically embraced a political strategy of hate, racism and division.”

Biden then called on the country to take up the challenge and do what Trump can’t.

“Stand together. Stand against hate. … Treating everyone with respect. Giving everyone a fair shot. Leaving nobody behind. Giving hate no safe harbor.”

Biden closed by reminding his listeners that America is, at its heart, a great idea…not because of its economy, its military or because we “win.”

 “America is an idea” — not great because we have the biggest economy or military or because we “win.” but because of its creed.

Biden reminded the audience that this is how Republicans used talk but cannot do so now because they have knelt to Trump to get tax cuts, or the judges they want.

Ironically (or tragically), this is how conservatives like Ben Sasse of Nebraska used to talk, before they became yes-men for Trump or argued that his defacing democracy was tolerable because of judges or tax cuts.

Biden told voters:

“Everyone knows who Donald Trump is. We need to show them who we are. We choose hope over fear. Science over fiction. Unity over division. And, yes — truth over lies.”

Biden explained that the real choice is between Trump and American democracy, between Trump and objective truth and between Trump and someone with a basic understanding of what makes America “great.”

In this speech Biden demonstrates that he has the voice to take Trump on (as to others as well) and that he is a much better alternative. But then again, so is virtually every other Democratic Candidate.

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Proud to be an Independent Progressive. I am a progressive- a one time Eisenhower Republican (from 1965 through 2004)who is now a Democrat. I live in a very RED STATE and am a community activist with a very BLUE AGENDA. I was a professor of history, and am now a researcher and gentleman farmer. My political positions are mixed - thus my preferred identification as a Progressive Independent. I am conservative on matters of military intervention, in regard to abortion, immigration, the public school system, gun rights, taxation, voter ID. But I am a traditional conservative, a Buckley, National Review, Eisenhower Republican..... I am a liberal on matters of health care care, funding education, taxation (yes one can be both liberal and conservative on this), civil rights, and alternative energy development/climate change.

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Jake321
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Jake321

Since you like trends so much, I took a closer look at the RCP averages over the past month. Biden was about 28 and Warren about 15. Today it’s Biden at 30.5 and Warren at 17.3. The differential favoring Biden has gone from about 13 a month ago to about 13 today. Damn, you’re correct, there really is quite the earth shattering trend for Warren…oh, never mind…

kesmarn
Admin

I’ve heard Biden referred to as the Democratic Party’s Romney. And I have to say that resonated. Nice guy. Trump fodder.

Yes, I know. The polls.

The polls showed a substantial lead for Hillary too in 2016. Until I came home from having worked the (other) polls that November evening to find the NYT’s Hillary Meter “Probability for Victory” dial plunging rapidly toward the zero mark.

“If we keep on doing what we’ve always done, we’ll keep on getting what we’ve always had.”

It isn’t even so much the age thing. Elderly Dr. Spock was a major (and beloved) figure in the 1960s anti-war movement. Bernie spoke to arenas full of 20,000-25,000 screaming young voters throughout the 2016 primary season. Howard Zinn still commands respect among younger political thinkers.

The problem is running Hillary 2.0. Biden was fine with letting banks off the hook after the 2008 Crash. Biden was okay with Dubya’s Iraq war. Biden — for better or worse — has been a go-along-and-get-along politician even when it meant shaking hands with the devil on occasion.

But I’m wondering whether there aren’t an awful lot of voters (including old school Republicans and Independents) who have reached a point of no return. A point at which half measures are no long good enough. A point at which they want to wash the stench of devil sweat off the palms of their hands once and for all.

TOCB
Member

“If we keep on doing what we’ve always done, we’ll keep on getting what we’ve always had.”

My fear is that Americans will continue to get what they deserve as long as they continue to do the same things, one of which is to continue to lie about Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton was actually named by Americans as the most admired woman in the world for 17 consecutive years. Yet, she supposedly lost the presidency by 70,000 votes that determined the electoral vote, after receiving 3,000,000 more votes than her opponent.

What was the latest reason people supposedly disliked Clinton? She used a personal server to conduct official State Department business? REALLY??? She supposedly voted to invade Iraq? REALLY??? American voters are STUPID and they deserve Trump. Not only for one term, but as long as they choose to remain STUPID.

Rather that investigating if Trump actually won the 70,000 votes that supposedly gave him the presidency. STUPID Americans continue to blame their STUPIDITY on Hillary Clinton.

How is that working out for ya, America? To get out of the rut of STUPIDITY America has another chance to elect a highly qualified female for president. Will they do that? Chances are that they won’t. WHY??? Because Americans are STUPID. Not only are many of them DEPLORALBE, MOST of them are STUPID!

But that is just my opinion.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/245669/michelle-obama-ends-hillary-clinton-run-admired.aspx

WASHINGTON, D.C. — For the first time in 17 years, a woman other than Hillary Clinton has been named by Americans as the woman they admire most. Former first lady Michelle Obama, who finished second to Clinton three times and is currently touring to promote her recently released autobiography, won by a significant margin this year. Oprah Winfrey was second, with Clinton and Melania Trump next.

Jake321
Member
Jake321

Well, maybe. But mostly those old school Republicans and Independents along with the rest of the great middle who determine most elections here, just want some peace and quite for a while. They sure aren’t pining to go from the Drama Queen, Infant Terrible we have now to a really exciting Progressive Revolution. They tend not to be the RIGHT ON!!! kind.

kesmarn
Admin

I don’t think anybody is the “RIGHT ON” kind in 2019. That mentality went out with bell bottoms and good riddance. But people are fed up with milquetoast responses to serious levels of racism, cruelty, wealth inequality and injustice. I normally haven’t bought into the “nice guys finish last” mentality, but I think that just may be the fate that awaits Biden. And no big bad Russian asset on facebook brainwashed my poor widdle college-educated mind into being concerned about that possibility. It’s simply obvious enough that this evening even the highly unrevolutionary BBC World News announced that Biden had pretty much managed to blow up his entire weekend in Iowa by way of a number of unforced errors… with no help whatsoever from the Kremlin.

Jake321
Member
Jake321

A rose by any other name…the Young Turks and Bernie friends are as much into the RIGHT ON!!! thingy as any Lefty back in my salad days. And the BBC has as much a take on the Unky Biden thingy as the Kremlin. Next it will be the unrevolutionary Guardian with its erudite take on Unky Biden. But as of now, our core base of voters seem to like the old comfy cuddly unky just fine. And the voters who most know Warren don’t like her much. Biden has almost twice the support in Massachusetts as she does and even Bernie is well ahead of her there. And by the numbers, our non-White core base don’t like either Bernie or Warren much. And Bernie’s fellow Jews who are an important base in the Dem Party like Bernie least of the main candidates. Maybe they know their own? And like non-Whites, Jews especially like Biden. Go figure…

AdLib
Admin

You share my interest in numbers so there’s this:

Iowa corn poll may signal trouble for Joe Biden.

‘Ear this, America: A uniquely unscientific poll of Iowa voters suggests Joe Biden is struggling to maintain his front-runner status in the Democratic presidential primary race.

Just 24% of Iowa State Fair goers “voted” for Biden by dropping a kernel of corn in his jar in a fair display designed to predict the winner of the nominating contest.

The vice president out-husked his closest rival, Pete Buttigieg, who drew 16% in the Cast Your Kernel contest. Sen. Elizabeth Warren was right behind with 15% and Sen. Kamala Harris took 11%.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-iowa-corn-poll-joe-biden-20190812-vunsn5oxonhxjjjjfvg5u2aswm-story.html

For your proposition to be validated, Biden should be rising in the polls or at the very least, Warren shouldn’t be gaining on him. But the reverse is true.

The trend is that Biden is declining in popularity and Warren is rising. It is logical to extrapolate that trend and if it continues, Biden will swap the lead with Warren.

It’s the trend that tells the story, we can offer a variety of propositions that support our chosen candidate winning but the most accurate indicator is the trend over time. And over the past 4 months, Biden has been stagnant at best and Warren has been steadily rising.

Jake321
Member
Jake321

And as with the average of all the other polls, either national or state, Biden is ahead of all the rest…even in the home states of other candidates like Massachusetts, Texas, Indiana and California. He is well ahead of Bernie in his neighboring NH, NY and Mass. According to RCP, over the past month or so, until the last few days, Biden was on the increase while Warren was level. These things do wax and wane. Oh, do note that while Iowa has great fairs and corn, their near Lily White caucuses are anything but representative of Dem VOTERS in general. And Iowa has all of about 1% of the vote at the Dem Convention. We won’t get a better sense of where our voters are at until actual elections in more diverse S.C. and California, etc.

But note, soon after Iowa where Biden still has a strong lead, come NH, Nevada and S.C. where Biden also has strong leads. Then comes Super Tuesday where Biden leads in virtually ever one of them, including the home states of other leading candidates like Warren and Beto.

AdLib
Admin

Some people never learn from their mistakes, they just keep trying to hammer that square peg into the round hole because they like square pegs the best.

No election punched me in the gut more than 2016, I was never so shaken or angry. I voted for Hillary but I was resentful all during the primary because it was clear that the Establishment Dems had already anointed her and did all they could to force their pick on Dems and the country.

Of course, Hillary would have been incredibly better than Trump, that should go without saying.

But it was the hubris and elitist superiority mentality that Establishment Dems used to justify their choosing the Dem nominee for us (don’t forget, they had already lined up a huge number of Superdelegates committed to her before the race even began, any challenger would have faced a huge deficit in delegates and be a likely loser to her because of that alone so why challenge her?).

It is the same definition of insanity this time around. Despite knowing the fact that moderate, establishment Dems have lost EVERY presidential election for the past 35 years including Hillary vs. Trump, too many people are still insistent that they know best that a Hillary/Biden political type is surely the best candidate to win for Dems.

They say that only Biden can win white men in red and purple states and that’s how Dems will need to win.

Nope. Chasing after the demographic that votes for Trump is not what won The House and a record election win for Dems in 2018 nor why Hillary lost in 2016. But why look at the most recent election and the way Dems won then when we can wish instead?

There is absolutely no evidence, aside from these very early polls, that supports running Biden instead of a sharper, more enthusiastic candidate.

And the factor not reflected in today’s polls is how quickly and easily Biden can shoot himself in the foot and lose support. Some may point to his numbers rebounding from his poor performance in the first debate but the fact that one debate performance can tank him so badly is a warning about how weak his support truly is and how he can damage himself badly overnight.

Biden has more baggage than Hillary did and as opposed to Hillary, Biden has lost his sharpness. He slurs his words sometimes, as I demonstrated, he makes major mistakes when he speaks, having him as the nom would be like carrying an unexploded mine in your car, if you hit a bump, it could all blow up.

But I understand, some people are scared and want what they think is the “safe” candidate. Others are so locked into their mindsets, they just won’t accept that the establishment moderate that they want to be the nom, is the riskier pick in an election we can’t afford to risk.

I am looking forward to the primary narrowing down to just a few candidates so there can be a real head to head comparison that I think will show Biden as the weaker candidate. Also, by then, I will have had to post “The Day in Biden’s Gaffes” timeline that will be many pages long and have Dems rolling their eyes on a regular basis.

If my portrayal of Biden is correct, he won’t win the primary (unless the Dem Establishment steps in) because he will founder on his own. Confusion, gaffes, refusing to apologize for bad decisions in the past and a long track record as you describe of being on the wrong side of Dem issues.

As I mentioned today in another comment, Biden has 28% in IA (Warren is only 9% behind him with big momentum) which means 72% of Dems who have to know him well by now, are voting against him. As the field narrows, where will those votes go? Most are likely to go to a challenger to Biden and that’s a lot of votes for challengers like Warren to rack up.

So, as in 2008, nothing you can do about those who insist Biden will win because he has a lead now, just like they did when Hillary had a 20% lead over Obama. He may squeak it out in the end but I don’t think he will.

2020 is similar to 2008. The longtime establishment moderate starts as the favorite against the upstart challenger who is more Progressive, charismatic and exciting to the base and would be the first of their kind to become President.

I remember how 2008 turned out, I wouldn’t be surprised for 2020 to turn out to have a similar result.

Jake321
Member
Jake321

In terms of the Dem Party, the South Carolina primary is more important than the Iowa caucus. It is also way more important in terms of representing where our core non-White voters are. If you missed it, Iowa is one of the most White states. A bit of a contradiction to tout near Lily White Iowa as the bell weather from someone who has dumped on others for maybe being racist for looking to try to get some White Working Class Obama voters back into the fold. Like Sanders last time, Warren has minimal non-White support. Anyway, what happens in South Carolina will likely indicate what will happen in the all important California primary way better than the Iowa caucus.

The support Biden has now is from OUR voters, especially our major core voters. And this is nothing like the supposed Establishment carination of 2016. What I hope will also not be like 2016 is how the Bernie supporters became the best echo chamber for the Trumpites and their Russian friends to dump on Hillary and help make Trump Prez. Let’s see, following your lead, Warren is opposed by 81% of Iowa Dems. And I might be missing something but I saw Obama and I see Warren and Warren sure is no
Obama. It would also be nice if Warren could get support in her own home Liberal State. Can’t claim the Dem voters don’t yet know her well enough there. This little factoid is about as damning of her and her chances against Trump as most anything you said about Biden who leads her by almost two to one in the RCP Massachusetts polls. Also, while Warren and Biden both beat Trump in Warren’s home state, Biden beats him by way more than Warren. The same holds for the three swing Rust Belt States. And maybe more important, Biden beats Trump in such potential swing states as Ohio and Florida. Warren does not. And we must beat Trump decisively or he may just not leave office and it
might take a two-thirds vote in
the Senate to remove him. Now that is one scary thought! But it is still early.

AdLib
Admin

I did think the speech Biden gave was timely and on the money.

At the same time, it was written for him by his speechwriters and he was reading off of teleprompters. When I first saw it, I was thinking this was a very strong approach and a well structured speech…but then I saw him faltering here and there and saying the wrong words repeatedly. For instance:

BIDEN: Most recently, he called an American…a major American center…city…a disgusting rat infected rodent mess. No human being, he said, would choose to live as though…a vibrant, diverse community around Baltimore somehow was less than human.

This section is at the 1:05 mark in the following video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTKhR2ofOTY

The last sentence in this segment is disjointed and of course, Trump said and the outrage has been over Trump’s use of “infested” not “infected”. Biden’s repeated stumbles while reading this speech disappointed me while driving home his vulnerabilities as a candidate, especially his age.

Am I glad he made this speech? Yes. However, while the sentiment and substance of the speech is truly appreciated, it is important to Dem primary voters to consider that this was a performance. This was not Beto O’Rourke expressing his genuine anger and sadness in an impromptu tv interview or any of the El Paso and Dayton politicians who have been so eloquent, genuine and powerful in their statements.

This was a candidate for the Democratic nomination performing a speech written by others off of teleprompters (saying that Trump was more George Wallace than George Washington was such a contrived, dated and overwritten jab) that was of course positioned to raise his standing in the primary and your very post evidences that to one degree or another, it has worked as planned.

That is part of the problem I have with Biden and this speech, it was political opportunism even if it was also a very appropriate push back against Trump and the white hatred he has whipped up.

In addition to Biden’s faltering during his speech, this demonstrated his reliance on old school political characteristics that voters have become less enthusiastic about. Instead of speaking his own words from his heart, he spoke someone else’s. Instead of expressing his personal outrage, he dramatically performed outrage in a speech written for him (it was very well written though).

I don’t disagree that it worked. As in your post, I saw news coverage lauding his speech (but not one mentioned his repeated tripping over words and phrases). On one hand, it could be just because the substance of the speech was rightfully so supported. On the other hand, it could be voluntary blindness, as unfortunately occurred with Hillary’s candidacy, that people who don’t want to see and accept that age has affected Biden’s acuity.

With Hillary, there was an issue with some voters feeling she wasn’t authentic. She said the right things, she supported the positions most Americans support but the way she communicated that with the public left some feeling that it may have been more performance than genuine.

This is the same problem I think Biden is facing now and will continue to face through the primary and if he becomes the nominee. He has a very well-rehearsed and effective style of presenting a speech with a tone of outrage and defiance. That can be a plus especially with Dem voters furious towards Trump. But for some Dem voters, there is something about it that comes off as less “from the heart” and more performance skills.

Eventually, this type of presentation can wear thin and seeing the latest polls in Iowa, I think there are a number of Dem voters who may agree with this. In a new Monmouth Poll in Iowa, released today, Biden has basically stayed unchanged over the past four months while Warren is up 12%

Poll: Warren gains on Biden in Iowa

Biden continues to lead the Democratic field with 28% support among voters who are likely to attend the Iowa caucuses in February 2020. This is nearly identical to his 27% support level in April. However, Warren is now closing the gap at 19% support, up from 7% four months ago.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/poll-warren-gains-on-biden-in-iowa/ar-AAFwO9s

And while Biden does lead with 28%, that also means that 72% of Dems in Iowa are not supporting him. There will be Dems that leave the race along the way and with their voters, Warren is more popular as a 2nd choice than Biden so she has even more room to rise than he does.

Biden’s numbers being static and Warren now being only 9% behind him in Iowa and clearly having momentum with over 5 months to go before the Iowa Caucus certainly puts Warren in a viable position.

As you say, Biden is hands down a better alternative to be president than Trump, no question. And as you say, any of the Dem candidates would be.

I just think that when it comes to which candidate would win the nom, be strongest against Trump (and not stumble), best represents the diversity and vibrancy of the Democratic Party and can generate the most enthusiasm, it may prove out not to be the 76 year old white male establishment moderate who has a propensity for stumbling when delivering a speech.

Kalima
Admin

Beto, Warren and Cory Booker also took on trump. In fact, although not a front runner, Beto’s numbers went up to 6 points over trump while Biden and Sanders stood at 4. I agree, Beto’s was raw and from the heart.

That speech echoed this article in The Atlantic. President Obama wrote his own speeches.

He’s Getting Worse

Trump is turning the American presidency into a platform for the wholesale demonization of minorities.

JEFFREY GOLDBERG
AUG 5, 2019

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/08/trump-getting-worse/595453/

Jake321
Member
Jake321

I agree with most of your sentiment. But should note what today’s RCP average of the polls indicate. Warren ahead of Trump by 2.4, but this is meaningless since it is so close and likely within the margin of error. Sanders ahead of Trump by 5.3. O’Rourke ahead by 6.6 but just from a few very old polls and thus of little value. RCP had no current polls of Beto vs. Trump. If you have one, please let me know which it is. Biden ahead by 8.5 which is the only margin against Trump greater than our margin in the House races of 2018. Lots of time still to go. But as of now, Biden is our only candidate who beats Trump decisively.

nehalem
Member
nehalem

Today’s polls. Tomorrow’s polls. So what. We can’t quite put our finger on what it is about Biden. It isn’t that he’s a leader. He’s being pushed on us – no one is seeking him out. He all but disappeared from sight post Obama – and when Obama was in office – was Biden really “necessary” as a Democratic party voice? No – he was not. It was ALL Obama to me. And everyone else knows that to be true, too. It was ALL Obama and his liberal values – to all of us. Its not going to be a 2020 election based on anything but the long list of critical issues – health care, immigration, gun reform, the war, etc – the people have waited far to long to see realized and know we never will – if Trump is re-elected. Warren, Sanders, Buttigieg, Gabbard – let’s talk – if we are to be the party of change that actually DELIVERS. Isn’t that how we play this election cycle – instead of relying on polls and trying to elevate hobbled status quo Biden – over Trump?

Jake321
Member
Jake321

Yep, Biden’s being pushed on us by the Dem voters, especially the non-White ones. Damn, CNN,MSNBC and the other kind of Left media sure are pushing anyone but Biden. But the folk like him, at least for now. And the Trumpites along with their Russian friends can’t figure it out. Nor can the Vanguard of the Revolution type Dems and Media. Left me help you out whichever of these befuddled type you are. The bulk of the voters, ours and in general, are sick and tired of all the excitement from the Drama Queen, Infant Terrible, in the White House. They want to take a break. They just want a calm, comfy, cuddly Unky for a while. Kind of like Ford after Nixon. And there is our very own Unky Joe to fill the bill. We just need to get Trump out so we can survive to go after all those wonderful things after.

Again, I’m not elevating Unky Joe. The voters are. But it is early and the Dems can be very creative in finding ways to screw it.

AdLib
Admin

And in TX, Beto is beating Trump in the polls. Can you imagine if a Dem won TX? Game over!

And BTW, the latest gaffe from Biden today in IA:

BIDEN: “We have this notion that somehow if you’re poor, you cannot do it. Poor kids are just as bright, just as talented, as white kids.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-09/biden-says-poor-kids-are-just-as-smart-as-white-kids-in-iowa

And this is the basket we want to put all of our eggs in to beat Trump? Biden is a self-sabotaging machine…like a 1979 Cadillac. He needs to be traded in for a newer model.

nehalem
Member
nehalem

I agree Biden is coma inducing. I don’t know about O’Rourke. I want a single payer universal nominee and I am not shy about that fact. Bring up private insurance and I see and hear a candidate dog whistling his support of private insurance and big pharma that have had nothing but ill intent for the past intent – raping and pillaging Americans in regard to premiums and prescriptions costs. Americans committing suicide now – and losing all hope for the change we all need – we can’t stand before Americans, IMO, with noting but full on single payer universal – because it past time Americans were ALl treated the same. No more class system healthcare and bankrupting of Americans too. Is O’Rourke strong on an immigration plan Rust belt states can appreciate? I hope so. We won’t topple Trump in all 50 states if we fail to offer up every American the best CHANGE REALIZING PLATFORM WE CAN.

Jake321
Member
Jake321

This sounds like Russian trolling to me. Most all voters do NOT want a Single Payer system that eliminates their private health insurance. They want an improved ObamaCare system that covers everyone and lets them keep their private insurance with improvements. They like Unky Joe’s plan and kind of hate Spitt’n Bernie’s Revolutionary plan that Warren tags along on. And are you really for an immigration plan that shoots illegals at the border? Since that is what most folk in the Rust Belt States seem to want. Only a foreigner who knows nothing of the US today would ever even imply there was anyway we could topple Trump in all 50 states. That silly statement is a giveaway.

Jake321
Member
Jake321

Both Biden and Beto are beating Trump in Texas by about the same small amount according to the RCP average of just a couple of polls. But the margin is not far enough beyond the error factors to have any meaning. Unfortunately, what I’m starting to smell is the same kind of crap that was thrown at Hillary by the Bernie supporters, often echoing Russian crap, that was important in giving us Trump as Prez. I hope folk who as of now represent the largest part of our voters can keep their cool and not counter attack in like manor. But it will be hard and Trump and Putin will smell victory instead of crap…

nehalem
Member
nehalem

Any argument for trying to promote Biden is a dead in the water salvo if ever there was one. We don’t headline with Biden. We sink doing that – Bernie didn’t create the crises of no confidence – Biden did. WE HEADLINE WITH SOMEONE WHO GUARANTEES CHANGE. And can earn GOP votes as well as the growing numbers of liberal Dems – because the headline this week of Americans committing suicide in blue states due to being bankrupted and stripped bare by our corrupt healthcare system -isn’t something Biden can be trusted to fix. He has NEVER lead on a fix. He has never been the go to person on healthcare or immigration or war or education or…. so let’s get real. AND finally realize change. Our party’s liberal leaders have been talking about solutions for years now. Let’s make it happen.

Jake321
Member
Jake321

The only change at this point the bulk of the voters want is Drama Queen Trump out and a vacation from all the excitement. And they love that Biden never met a Republican or anyone else he didn’t like and could work with to pass legislation. If you missed it, this is about most of the voters wanting to take a rest for a while before charging on into the unknown for the excitement of the Revolution…WEEEEEEEEEE…

kesmarn
Admin

The Fave just turned 18. (Yay! She can vote.) She quoted this Biden gaffe while we were at dinner tonight. She and her age cohort wouldn’t even consider voting for Biden. As she said: “He may be ‘well-intentioned’ (she was using her air quotes), but who would say something like that? He’s not the man for the job.” Her current favorites: Sanders, Warren and Buttigieg.

nehalem
Member
nehalem

Both of my millenial college educated kids too – are tired of imagining another four years without CHANGE. Sanders. Warren. Buttigieg. And Gabbard – all make the cut with them – and surprisingly with my 85 year old liberal valued mother.

kesmarn
Admin

Exactly, nehalem. And they are in the ascendant now. Their lives have been severely damaged by politicians who have managed to tank the economy in 2008, make college unaffordable for them, send them off to stupid wars, deny them health care, keep their wages low and utterly fail them on gun control. They do NOT want somnolent old “Unkie Joe.” They view him as one of the sleepwalkers who allowed things to get to the state in which they are now. They are not going to vote for him.

Jake321
Member
Jake321

Guess those millennials have been to busy taking selfies to notice we’ve been having a wee bit of change over the past few years. And guess your relatives both young and old are not typical Dems who like the calm, comgfy, cuddly Unky Joe, at least for now.

Jake321
Member
Jake321

And overwhelmingly the non-White Dem voters support Biden and don’t seem to give a damn about what mostly White Progressives think is just so terrible they can’t wait to join the Lily White Trumpites and Russians in dumping on Biden. Hey, why not? It worked so well last time when similar was done to Clinton. And look we got a White Supremacist in the White House. They should be sooooooooo proud!

Kalima
Admin

Oh good Lord! Wtf?

Maybe a Dem winning Texas is not that far off and at least 5 repubs are resigning and won’t be running for re-election. Somehow after trump’s win, or rather stolen election, I believe that nothing is impossible except for trump becoming human that is.

Jake321
Member
Jake321

I would take ANY of our candidates over Trump. I would take any option that even had Pence as Prez for a while. We need to survive to fight another day on other issues. At this point, the Dem voters support Biden by a wide margin. Our core non-White voters support him by even more. Against Trump, Biden has about a 9 point lead among all the voters (RCP Ave). This is almost twice what Bernie has. All the rest are beaten by Trump or beat him by what is likely within the margin of error. Most important, Biden is our only candidate at this time to beat Trump by more than we beat the Republicans in the House races in 2018. All the rest are NOT doing near as well as we did in 2018. And yes, it would be good if he was 20 years younger. He isn’t but if he still can keep the commanding lead over Trump, so what? (Oh, RCP shows Biden leading in all the primary states they cover. And most important, strongly in the swing Rust Belt States against Trump.) But as always…it is still early.