I do not support Joe Biden for president. Not because I have anything against Joe Biden, but because I think it is time for a well qualified and well prepared woman to be POTUS.

https://progressive.org/dispatches/the-other-reason-biden-shouldnt-run-Zunes-190402/

030415-M-5607A-002

I had noticed that in the continuation of how Hillary Clinton had been treated, compared to men presidential candidates, no one had mentioned the vote for the invasion of Iraq (which never existed), in regards to Joe Biden. Well, someone has mentioned it now, and I suspect it is a Sanders supporter. As I have attempted to explain to people who have not actually read H.J. Res. 114, the resolution was not a war resolution, but rather a peace resolution that the Bush administration along with congressional republicans and the press (both liberal and conservative) promoted as a war resolution AFTER it passed. It was actually sold BEFORE it was passed as a peace resolution for the United States Congress to show the United Nations that they supported President Bush in his effort to persuade the United Nations Security Council to approve sending weapons inspectors back to Iraq to give an accounting of WMD we knew Iraq once had, because they got them from the USA.

Ironically, the first time the mischaracterization of H.J. Res. 114 was used against a candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination was when presidential candidate Senator Barack Obama used it against Senator Hillary Clinton in 2008, to promote the notion that he had superior judgement. Senator Obama initially said that if he had been in Congress at the time of the vote for H.J. Res. 114, he would have voted against it. He later said, after he won the nomination, that he did not know how he would have voted. Presidents, including George W Bush and Barack Obama, have stated that they do not need congressional approval to use military force if there is imminent danger to the USA. Bush only sought congressional approval in the form of H.J. Res. 114 to give the appearance of congressional support when he went before the U.N. in 2002 to request weapons inspectors be sent back to Iraq to determine the status of their WMD.

Both Clinton and Biden have since, apologized for their votes for H.J. Res. 114 because they did not think at the time that President Bush would use it as an excuse to invade Iraq. The irony is that now the vote is being used against President Obama’s vice president in the same manner he used it against his 2008 primary opponent. Of course the claim of a vote to invade Iraq may not have the same impact against Biden as it had against Clinton, because Biden is a man and Americans have more confidence in a man as POTUS than they do in a woman as POTUS.

https://progressive.org/dispatches/the-other-reason-biden-shouldnt-run-Zunes-190402/

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nehalem
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nehalem

I agree about elevating women this time around. And remembering to elevate candidates for our party nomination who are liberal like 51 percent of our party. Tulsi Gabbard – who already has the endorsement of multiple liberal groups and was active duty during this war – as well as Kamala Harris too – has also aligned her foreign policy resume with Bernie Sander’s Yemen resolution – so she is capable of looking at the Middle East and recognizing we need to get the hell out of it. She just isn’t quite there yet with single payer universal. My hope is by the next round of debates she will be fully there. Let’s also look at Bernie Sanders seriously too. Why not? He hasn’t gotten it wrong since he aligned with that war/peace resolution and that matters to Americans – matters deeply so – to me. and of course he has it right when it comes to healthcare – and that matters to all Americans – deeply so – regardless of your gender.
Any number of combinations between Gabbard, Sanders, Harris and Buttigieg (a war veteran too) please me. For now. Whomever earns our nomination must be able to enact plans if they are elected that they are actually detailing for us today. Who owns that platform – and who is ready. And who is liberal – like 51 percent of our party. It matters to Democrats that you vote and act and represent the people like you are one today – liberal. Not just saying you are a Democrat – but you vote and accept donations and influence peddle behind closed doors – like you are a Republican.

nehalem
Member
nehalem

Well, I do recall the resolution and I do recall why Senators voted as they did – and if your constituency was in New York, as Senator Clinton’s was at the time, or in Delaware, as Senator Biden’s was at the time – you voted as you believed your constituency would want you to vote. FOR WAR. Or at least that is what they told news services at the time. Which makes Senator Sanders, also a east coast representing Senator, and his vote against this war resolutions – more to the point and time tested. He meant it. Then and now. And he believed his constituency backed him up. Given his constituency continued to support him at the ballot box multiple times since then – credit Senator Senaders. I do. Issue him a necessary war and let’s see how Senator Sanders votes. There hasn’t been one – to date.

All we needed to do in response to 9/11 was what took down Osama Bin Laden in the end – at the executive direction of then Commander in Chief Obama – a special ops Navy Seal operation. And if all of our memory’s serve us and videotape of that time affirms – then President Bush in 2001 promised us all exactly that, but unlike Commander in Chief Obama (who didn’t order up the Navy Seal special ops take down of Bin Laden until 2011), Bush went and mucked it all up – full on war mongering. And the rest is history. Why not just wait patiently until our intelligence located Bin Laden – and take him out? Why indeed did successive American presidents CHOOSE to expand war out to seven nations across the Middle East, while also involving Iran, Russia and Israel in it all – too? Could it be the lure of defense industry monies was too much – as was pressure from Israel, Russia, a war thirsting Pentagon?

Inexplicable never ending war that got hand delivered to President Donald Trump. Did any of that very real endangering and taking down of US Troops along with the loss of unknown numbers of innocent civilians across the Middle East need to occur? Did WE really require a war resolution – at all. Let’s ask Senator Sanders about ALL of that. I would rather listen to him speak on the issue than those that rushed us into war and expanded out war – and to this day – can’t defend it. When all we needed to do – we eventually did do – in 2011. Take Osama Bin Laden out.

Opie Cat
Member
Opie Cat

Re: Joe. I won’t be voting for this guy in the primaries, but if he becomes the nominee you can bet your bippus he’ll get my vote.

It is imperative that we get rid of dead wood (Trump) if we expect to salvage our country.

Jake321
Member
Jake321

Virtually every day Traitor Trump does despicable things worse than anything anyone of the Dem candidates has done in their lifetimes. Goal one, two, three and four are getting Traitor Trump out. At this time by far the best shot at that is the 2020 election. Impeachment won’t do it and God as well as Skull & Bones seem on vacation. Thus we must run the Dem with the best chance of beating him. As of now, by far that is comfy, cuddly Unky Joe…

nehalem
Member
nehalem

A year previous to the 2016 campaign the nation didn’t see Trump taking over our White House like he did either. Earthquake engaging. I don’t think someone as history and progressive record conflicted as Biden – who didn’t do enough as a US Senator or VEEP to establish himself as a COURAGEOUS leader on any issue of note – can swing it. We voted in Obama to institute change. He forever more changed our political sphere. History making. I was all in for him doing that. Someone like Bernie Sanders IMO has the earthquake capacity potential. Perhaps someone like Elizabeth Warren too – a Sanders/Warren combination IMO is in serious contender territory. If we are honest. Biden – same ole same ole dog whisting to corporate donors -they are safe with him. Status quo. We can wish for everyone to vote for Biden just because. But at the end of the day – if that’s all we end up settling for – wow. After four years of Trump and that’s it. Biden? Come on, Americans. WE CAN DO BETTER. I know we can.

Jake321
Member
Jake321

As of tonight, Bernie is out. Warren moves up because of last night. Biden holds his own as the decisive front runner. Speak for yourself. Lots of folk on our side like Michael Moore saw Trump winning and how that would be. My numbers showed the same possibility but I didn’t believe them and fell in with the common narrative that he would lose. The only serious candidate who can hold our base and bring back the Working Class whites who had voted for Obama looks to be Biden today. He is the only Dem with a greater lead on Trump as we got in 2018. All the rest have less. Biden is also ahead in every Dem Primary Race and even shows he might beat Trump in Texas. There is zero evidence so far that Warren has a chance against Trump.

Carlysue
Member
Carlysue

How is Trump a traitor? What despicable acts? He has put Americans before those of other countries and that is his job.

Jake321
Member
Jake321

Just a couple of little examples of the unending outrageous things he has done. He gave away the top secret Israeli operations in Syria against ISIS directly to the Russian Ambassador. That is treasonous. He forcefully separated infants from their mothers in a way that many will never be reunited again. That is despicable. And he bad mouths our long time demographic allies while saying he is in love with murderous dictators. That is un-American.

TubaJesus
Member
TubaJesus

1. I think you have your priorities mixed up and 2. I think you are mistaken as to who has the best chance…

Jake321
Member
Jake321

Nahhhhhhhhhh…getting Traitor Trump out is first and more so we even have a chance of trying for our other priorities. I like numbers that are reflective of the folk and the numbers indicate that they want Trump out and say that Unky Joe is by far our best bet to do that. But it is still early…

Carlysue
Member
Carlysue

You are listening to the wrong people. More people I hear from do not want him out. If the Democrats pursue this impeachment crap they will be in for a huge surprise. So, please, keep it up!

jac
Member
jac

You are. His poll numbers are down. He lied about Cheaper Healthcare Insurance, Cheaper Prescriptions and showing his taxes which he still claiming the IRS still looking over them all these years . Remember they are so complicated that no one would understand them.

Jake321
Member
Jake321

Matters not what your Trumpite friends say. I look at the real numbers of dozens of major polls. There will not be an Impeachment so give up that little hope. And our candidate will very likely be calm, cuddly, Unky Biden just the known experienced adult most voters are looking for to replace your Drama Queen, Enfant Terrible currently stinking up the White House…

TubaJesus
Member
TubaJesus

by far? not according to the studies I’ve read. Bernie would do a point better than biden if the election was held today.

https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2019-06/daily-beast-gender-topline-2019-06-17-v2.pdf

Jake321
Member
Jake321

That is not “studies” it is only one study. And it is not a poll. It is a statistical survey. It is not only of registered voters. It is not only of those most likely to vote. And it was done only in English. For example, Biden does way better among Hispanics than any other candidate. There is also a relatively large error factor since it was only from their English only survey base of only about a thousand.

RCP has the average of the major polls showing Biden ahead of Sanders by more than two to one in the Primaries and winning all the major Primaries they have polls on…at this time. Biden also beats Trump on average in all the swing states and even some that are usually Red. No other Dem does as well. Sanders is currently falling in the polls while Warren is moving up a bit. Biden is increasing his lead on average against Trump by a little. At this point, Biden beats Trump by a bit more than the 2018 Midterms went to the Dems. No other Dem does this yet. Again, things can change. But since Biden is our likely candidate at this point, best not to bad mouth him too much.

TubaJesus
Member
TubaJesus

“Of course the claim of a vote to invade Iraq may not have the same impact against Biden as it had against Clinton, because Biden is a man and Americans have more confidence in a man as POTUS than they do in a woman as POTUS.”

Gender has nothing to do with it, I will rail against Biden as hard if not harder than I did against Clinton. It’s not a gender issue it’s a judgement issue and I can neither respect or forgive that poor judgement call.

Jake321
Member
Jake321

Yet another who doesn’t care if Traitor Trump remains Prez…

TubaJesus
Member
TubaJesus

Don’t put words in my mouth. I care just as much as you, but this is what the primaries are for. Getting the best candidate for the general and I will do that at all costs. If that Jackass gets the nomination I’ll vote for him, but I won’t be happy about it. I am insulted by youre insinuation dickweed.

Jake321
Member
Jake321

Nahhhhhhhhhhhh…you like to bad mouth our leading candidates and just that kind of crap hurt Clinton and helped give us Traitor Trump…

TubaJesus
Member
TubaJesus

Clinton brought her fate down upon herself. Even Obama has said that she mishandled her campaign. It’s not my fault she was unelectable.

Jake321
Member
Jake321

Right, it was not your fault alone. The Electoral College did most of the harm. And then there was Comey and the Russians and the bad mouthers of both Right and Left. In addition to her being a bad candidate. But without any one of those other factors, she would be Prez and Traitor Trump would not. You should be sooooooooo proud you did your little part and sounds like you can’t wait to do the same again…

Lizzeee
Member

Did Bush ever apologize?

Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton are far from perfect but I don’t think they expected it to be exploited into a twenty year war. What is unforgivable is that we learned nothing from it. Basing our foreign policy on the needs of big oil and the financial needs of the defense contractors is disgusting and nearly as anti-American as Trump and his Bircher buddies.

My friend lost his son in that mess.

jac
Member
jac

Trump has changed how we react. If his voters don’t care how he lies and all the the laws he breaking . We should do the same. Who cares. We just our party to win. No negativity. Lie lie lie it worked for Trump.

Carlysue
Member
Carlysue

Exactly what laws has he broken? What about the laws the Democrats break and the lies they tell? Why do they always get a pass?

jac
Member
jac

So your party the GOP runs everything in Washington for two full years not voting for Trump’s wall that He Campaigned vehemently Mexico was paying for because they didn’t want to lose the 2018 midterms . After midterms they still didn’t vote for it and then Trump turned it that the Democrats were against it . Seems you don’t take credit for your lies.

AdLib
Admin

Whataboutism

(also known as whataboutery) is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent’s position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument, which in the United States is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism