Vox Populi, our weekly live chat on the week’s events begins tonight at 7:00pm PST. Hope to see you then!
AdLib 7 days ago
Hey Beatlex!
AdLib 7 days ago
Hey ad!
Beatlex
7 days ago
Getting a lot of Americans moving in up there?
AdLib 7 days ago
Now Trump is trampling on long held foreign policy on China!
Beatlex
7 days ago
Not that I have noticed ad
Beatlex
7 days ago
Was just joking…
AdLib 7 days ago
I know,Trump is no joke though,he is dangerous
Beatlex
7 days ago
Beatlex, this is just the beginning. Before too long, I think most of America and the world will be standing up together against him.
AdLib 7 days ago
He has no idea how hated he already is and will be by most of the world. And that will undercut support for him in the GOP.
AdLib 7 days ago
I am thinking that it is possible the R’s turn on him Ad.With all the conflicts of interest he has
Beatlex
7 days ago
He wants to spend.The R’s hate that
Beatlex
7 days ago
I think it’s only a matter of time. The novelty of electing him will soon wear off after he’s president. Then, the revolt against Trump and the GOP will be a woorldwide phenomenon.
AdLib 7 days ago
He will become the most hated man in the free world.
AdLib 7 days ago
What’s going on now is really odd. So many people seem still in shock.
AdLib 7 days ago
The only way to stop him is impeachment.And I am still in shock Ad
Beatlex
7 days ago
And as Kalima reminded in a recent comment, there seems to be no news coverage of how the FBI and Russians manipulated this election to what they wanted. A coup by a foreign country and the MSM is just sitting around sensationalizing Trump’s tweets.
AdLib 7 days ago
But impeachment can only be prosecuted by The House and Repubs have cheated through gerrymandering to control that. Can’t imagine them ever impeaching a president of their own party.
AdLib 7 days ago
The media shares much of the blame for sure.For ratings.And I think they would impeach.If he keeps his business ties.They would LOVE Mike Pence as President
Beatlex
7 days ago
You’re so right, the MSM bragged about how Trump may be horrible for America but was great for ratings. Corporate America threw the US under the bus with the economic crash, now it’s trying to disembowel it with Trump. Maybe we needed this to happen to have a real social (not literal) revolution against this awful system.
AdLib 7 days ago
And youu’re right about them liking Pence more but they can’t afford to alienate the GOP base that loves Trump.
AdLib 7 days ago
Trump will turn them off himself Ad,There are people grumbling already about his wall street picks
Beatlex
7 days ago
I think some will peel off but remember the campaign, some of these Trump supporters are mindless followers who will rationalize away everything he does. He is a cult leader and his cult, though smaller than the amount of voters he got, will stay blindly behind him…like zombies.
AdLib 7 days ago
The Dems better come up with someone good to carry the torch Ad.That will be interesting to see.They can’t wait for Trump to F up,they need to have an alternative
Beatlex
7 days ago
Hey PPO!
AdLib 7 days ago
OZZZZ!
Beatlex
7 days ago
Hey everybody! I see the Don has screwed another va- Ghyna with his chat to taiwan!
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
hey beat!
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
I’m concerned about that, Beatlex. They’re keeping the same failed establishment leadership in power in Congress…they are so corrupt in ignoring the election results while keeping their hold on power. Who knows who they’ll try too force on Dem voters in 2020 if the rank and file can’t overcome them?
AdLib 7 days ago
PPO – Isn’t that 2 for 2? He’s now damaged relations with India and China, the two most populous nations in the world!
AdLib 7 days ago
Well, let’s see what he does in Europe – make it 3 for 3
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
Trump has already pissed off half of the population of the world, not to mention most Americans. And he isn’t even president yet!
AdLib 7 days ago
Hey glenn!
AdLib 7 days ago
Sure acting like one already, and if this is an example of what we can expect, we’re fucking doomed!
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
My bet is that the majority of Trump’s presidency will be him under siege from all sides and reacting hatefully, turning more and more people against him. Again, in 4 years, he will likely be the most hated man in the free world.
AdLib 7 days ago
agree, Ad, but it is what state the world will be in by then that creeps me out
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
…. and who can fix it/
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
PPO – Not necessarily, if he turns so many against him, Repubs will have little choice but to help block him.
AdLib 7 days ago
Hey everyone! Hope you are well.
glenn
7 days ago
Glenn!
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
PPO–how’s your Fergie?
glenn
7 days ago
Fergie’s doing fine, thanks, G. she’s busy writing cards. with one eye, that’s no easy these days. Hip is fine, DG.
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
Ad–trump may be the most hated man in the free world, but the problem is, he will be POTUS. That’s what scares the beejesus out of me!
glenn
7 days ago
Exactly, Glenn.
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
PPO – We can’t stop Trump from becoming president but since he is, it may be the one thing that brings the world together and could radically change the plutocratic system strangling the majority. It was noot a huge wave that elected Trump, he lost the popular vote by 2 million. But he could bring about a real populist election that makes big changes to our government. Bush caused Obama to be elected, Trump could cause a very Progressive Dem and Dem congress to be elected.
AdLib 7 days ago
Ad–not sure that repubs will block trump in any way, shape, or form. Just look at romney eating crow for dinner the other night. And ryan can’t wait to gut Medicare, Obamacare, and any other program he can. Mainly just because, now, with the election of trump, he can!
glenn
7 days ago
glenn – True but as we saw with Obama, even a President can be blocked from using his power in profound ways. If enough Americans, including Repubs who realize they were conned by Trump, rise up against him, Repub pols who want to be re-elected would have no choice but too help block Trump.
AdLib 7 days ago
BTW, I did a stint on The Chase Australia and it went to air on Nov.22. Will be on YouTube next week, I hear. If you want to watch it for a laugh, it will be S04E49
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
Ad–it may well be that trump will cause a progressive Dem and Dem congress to be elected. The problem with that is, the Dems need to find one, that’s not Elizabeth Warren nor Bernie Sanders. The Dems need to start bringing up some “younguns” with progressive ideas.
glenn
7 days ago
Agree glenn, and the mid terms will be where it starts
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
glenn – If that core of Trump supporters who believed his BS start feeling betrayed, Repub pols won’t choose Trump over them because they’ll lose re-election.
AdLib 7 days ago
PPO – That is damn cool! Could you post a link here on TO/OT once it’s up?
AdLib 7 days ago
Ad, the sheeples will never admit they were mightily conned and will ‘rationalize’ whatever it takes to stay voting for Republicans.
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
Will do, Ad, as long as it won’t break confidentiality rules.
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
Ad–do you think the Dems are “united” enough to block trump like the repubs did with President Obama? Personally, I’ll believe it when I see it. Dems have a history of “working with” repubs when they think the legislation is good for the country; thereby giving trump the ability to crow about his “uniting” the Congress. I hope Warren can keep them fired up and ready to block him at every turn. Once again, the repubs are willing to burn down the country to win elections. I don’t know that Dems are willing to do the same.
glenn
7 days ago
glenn – I don’t agree that Warren should be ruled out because of her age. She has the Progressive following and indie support that can win elections. Age shouldn’t be more important than winning. A young unknown Progressive might have a hard time winning a primary and a GE.
AdLib 7 days ago
glenn, unfortunately, they won’t have enough grunt to sway much of anything.
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
PPO – Oh right…just let me know, I’ll edit our conversation out on Vox about it then post it myself. Really looking forward to it!
AdLib 7 days ago
PPO–respectfully disagree that the midterms are the place to start. Now is the time to get those Dem names before the public. We have too many entrenched repubs in the red states. Here in GA., some of the positions for which I voted didn’t even have a Dem on the ballot. In those cases I wrote in Donald Duck or my mother’s name because I refuse to vote for a republican.
glenn
7 days ago
glenn, you’re right of course, now is the time for the Dems to air their new faces and start pushing.
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
PPO – True, the core Trump Zombies will never admit anything negative about Trump or ever turn on him but many of those who voted for Trump, especially in the swing states, aren’t mindless Trump followers. They are the ones who will peel off from him, leaving a too-small minority of Trombies left supporting him.
AdLib 7 days ago
Ad–good point about Warren and age. It wasn’t so much her age I was objecting to as it was her “baggage”. I think repubs will try to do the same thing to her that they did to Hillary, although I think Warren is better prepared to take them on! So, listen to me, talking out of both sides of my mouth. I do think that Dems had better get some young blood in soon, though!
glenn
7 days ago
Hey Murph!
AdLib 7 days ago
Howdy
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Hey Murph! How are you?
glenn
7 days ago
Hi, Murph.
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
grabbing a coffee, BRB
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
How am I? Exhausted.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
glenn – I do think that there aren’t so many Blue Dog Dems left to betray Dems and help defeat filibusters. I don’t trust Schumer, he’s a corporate pawn but the outrages of Trump will continue to be so unacceptable that if he or any other Dems support him regularly, they will be destroyed in primaries.
AdLib 7 days ago
glenn – Good point about the need for Dems to begin working ASAP to prepare to defeat the GOP in 2018 and 2020. Especially in states like GA which have potential to move into the Dem column.
AdLib 7 days ago
Ad–I hope you’re right. But, as I told PPO, here in GA., for some seats, there aren’t even any Dems running! It’s frustrating to have to write in names just because I refuse to vote for a repub., plus I don’t want a “non-vote” to go to them, if that makes sense.
glenn
7 days ago
Murph–working too hard? Hope your health is not the cause of your exhaustion.
glenn
7 days ago
And right now there is NO Democratic national presence in LA where a Senate Seat is still to be decided. Why are they/we not fighting for it?
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
glenn – I don’t know what baggage Warren has, she has a history of fighting the banks and corporations, something that both Hillary and Trump voters support. There aren’t any skeletons in her closet, very important after what we saw exploited this year. And Warren is charismatic, tough and unafraid as a fighter and has a hige Progressive following, bigger than anyone since Bernie voters are Warren fans too. I think she’s a natural to run but I would like to see younger Progressives running against her to raise their image…and if they’re legit and win, they’ll do well too.
AdLib 7 days ago
Murph–I agree. All I heard before the election was what a great ground game Hillary and the Dems had, yet in states like GA and LA, there are not even Dems on the ballot for some seats.
glenn
7 days ago
glenn – How can we call this a democracy when only one person runs for an office???
AdLib 7 days ago
Glenn….there has been a wave of panic here re. health services and I have been dealing with a lot of very worried people….who voted GOP for a governor who is going to be reducing the number of public clinics just as the new president and congress are speaking about repealing ACA. Many of these people have insurance thank to Obamacare but used to depend on the clinics. Thus the panic.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
I am also genuinely sickened by Trump and his lackeys.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Ad–I agree that you and I don’t think Warren has any baggage, but the repubs will bring up her past regarding her calling herself a Native American; I would bet my bottom dollar on it. They will paint her as a liar, just as they did Hillary. I know she can fight it well, but there is no doubt in my mind that they will harp on it extensively. In addition, according to repubs, her “baggage” is that she’s a progressive, and I would bet that they will find some way to cast doubt on her progressive ideas. I watched them do it to Hillary, I watched the corporate media help the repubs do it, so I have no doubt they will do it again.
glenn
7 days ago
Murph–I go back and forth between feeling sorry for the people you mention, and wanting to say, WTH did you think would happen when you elected republicans over and over again? No one can say that republicans haven’t been very clear for the past eight years that they wanted Obamacare gone, they want Medicare gone, they want Social Security gone. WTH did those people think would happen?
glenn
7 days ago
Murph – It is sickening to read the news each day on Trump’s latest horrific cabinet pick or insult of a major country. I think people are still trying to work things out and have gone back into their caves for the rest oof the year but we have to come back out joining the good fight with the New Year.
AdLib 7 days ago
Glenn…I have told everyone that they need to do as I have done….call their congressman, call their senators, call the state health department and the governor elect’s office and make their feelings known….follow up with e mails and letters.Organize. Hold them accountable. And, for God’s Sake, next time vote responsibly. That means find out what is really going on. Find out the facts.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Murph – I could imagine the Repubs doing what’s rumored, passing a sunset of like 3 years of the ACA then trying to use extortioon as they have with the budget to force Dems to agree to a horrible deal. It will be up to us to make it clear to all Dems that they will be destroyed by voters if they don’t stonewall Repubs.
AdLib 7 days ago
Ad….I have lost faith in the voters…on both sides for different reasons.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
And Murph, how many of those people who may learn that they will lose their health insurance in 3 years will re-elect the man who is taking it away from them?
AdLib 7 days ago
as I said…I have lost my faith in electorate….on both sides.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
glenn – That racist approach may have worked this year but it won’t against an incumbent Trump who has wrecked so much. That approach will sound so phony after 4 years of Trump proving what a fraud he is.
AdLib 7 days ago
Such a shame that millions of people who did vote will have to suffer the consequences despite not voting for Trump. For those who didn’t vote, you’ve just got the Government you deserve.
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
Trump, and his circle, have shown themselves to be masters of propaganda (both its form and function). Voter ignorance is a key to its effectiveness. Voter anger animates it.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Murph, look to the last masters of propaganda. that didn’t work out well for the world, did it?
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
Eventually……and look what it took to bring them down. I am genuinely worried….
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Murph – I don’t think it’s a matter of faith. You’re a historian, you know what happens historically once people have been pushed too far. The emotional voters who helped elect Trump will vote against him for the same reason if they again feel betrayed by a Repub who promised them Nirvana and delivered Hell. Inflation is going to spike under Trump, unemployment will go up and healthcare will be evaporating. It will be awful but as I often say, Americans often don’t vote in their best interest until they’re pushed deeply into suffering.
AdLib 7 days ago
Murph–I’m with you; I have lost faith in the American electorate. And shame on the people who didn’t bother to vote! I don’t want to hear one word of complaint from them!
glenn
7 days ago
PPO – The whole world is going to suffer…which could be the unifying factor that may be needed. The nationalist mentality is running rampant now, we need a Progressive populism mentality built worldwide to beat it back into the ground. And Trump may be that unintentional gamechanger.
AdLib 7 days ago
Ad…I do hope that you are correct but I am truly astounded at how willing his followers are to excuse him, to buy into the rationalizations, to dismiss any effort to acquaint them with the truth. Will it change as things go badly. I hope so but oh the pain that many will bear.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Wonder what might happen if there were a world boycott of US goods! Nah, never happen, but just think…..
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
Murph – I know you’re very dismayed at the election, I am too. But the truth is that Trump lost the popular vote and didn’t win more votes than Romney did in the last election. Dems lost for myriad reasons, in an election between two candidates who were almost equally disliked, the worst candidate had a chance to win and that’s what happened. The same America elected and re-elected Barack Obama, they’re still here.
AdLib 7 days ago
Murph–You say “find out the facts”. That seems to be the problem, doesn’t it? According to one of trump’s minions, I forget which one, facts are only something you “believe”; there are no such things as facts. Dems need to get out on corporate media and squash that quickly! They need to get their faces in front of cameras, stop calling names, and start listing facts and figures. There are many who won’t believe them, but we have to start somewhere, and hopefully, rational people will see the light.
glenn
7 days ago
There is a move on by several big Trump supporters to remove me from the governing board of the coop I co-founded because I was against Trump. I told several members of the coop who approached me about this that I am still against him. I will happily step down and watch the whole thing unravel (since if I go two other pivotal people will too).
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Murph, your coop is a microcosm of what may happen all over the US. the real workers get the boot and the rest then collapse from their ignorance.
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
Murph, I’m so sorry to hear that about your co-op. It’s one of those “be careful of what you wish for.” If those people think they can run it better, maybe you should let them fail, just as trump is doing.
glenn
7 days ago
BTW, Murph, what does you political stance have anything to do with your performance?
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
Murph – Don’t forget that the current Trump supporters supported Ryan and the other “Young Turks” who promised to deliver on BS. They turned against them and they will turn on Trump when they start feeling betrayed. These Repub voters are of the victimization/paranoid mentality. They will follow Repubs like cult members but after they see they’ve been conned, they’ll turn on them. Trump can’t deliver on his BS and after a while of that and suffering more, some of these Trump supporters will be his fiercest critics…not the core Trombies but many others. Trump can’t help but fail and the people who voted for him because they felt the GOP failed them, will turn on him too.
AdLib 7 days ago
PPO–exactly. And when they collapse from their ignorance, they will expect the real workers to pick up the pieces, while complaining about it all the time. The Carrier “deal” is the best example of this. As soon as trump announced the deal, Carrier sent out letters of termination to other workers.
glenn
7 days ago
Ad….and then I look at the states where the GOP has com to dominate so many state houses and governor’s mansions….with the Dems not able to take advantage of the best election profile they will have in three cycles….Obama looks more and more like a blip.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
PPO – I think you are correct. There are a lot of chronic do gooders like myself who really about had it.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Ad–I admire your optimism. I think some of it comes from living in a state like CA. Those of us who live in red states feel as though we’re swimming against the tide.
glenn
7 days ago
Ad…..given the campaign I don’t see truth, reality, the facts, as being very potent.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Glenn…precisely.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Ad–How have ryan supporters turned against him? Wasn’t he just re-elected?
glenn
7 days ago
Murph – I don’t agree with your analysis. Obama does not and will not look like a blip. Trump will look like a horrible blip. He will do so much damage in 4 years, he and the GOP will become horribly toxic.
AdLib 7 days ago
Ad….we will see…..all I see here in the heartland, with rare exceptions, are the forces that want to negate Obama’s legacy gaining steam and ground.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Ad, sorry, but the GOP and trump are already toxic, but it doesn’t seem to have sunk in to the hoi polloi. we’re in big trouble
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
glenn – I get it. It’s harder to be in a situation where you’re surrounded with that mentality. But the big picture is that the Repub base is white, old and shrinking. What happened this year won’t be possible after several more years. And again, Trump lost the popular vote and didn’t do any better than Mitt Romney. We had a Dem candidate with enormous baggage, an establishment candidate in a change year and the FBI and Russia sabotaging our election. A horribly perfect storm but not enormous support for Repubs.
AdLib 7 days ago
Ad–if trump and the republicans succeed in destroying Obamacare, Social Security, and Medicare, do you really think that Dems are ever going to be able to repair that damage? No matter how toxic the repubs become, there seems to be no bottom to their toxicity and no bottom to the people who support them. As Murph says, the forces who want to negate Obama’s legacy seem to be gaining steam and ground, and seem to be damn proud of it, too!
glenn
7 days ago
Plans are underway for Trump to have regular rallies throughout his presidency ……. follow The Leader and the Leader sees himself responding to his followers first and foremost.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
I expect massive voter repression and the conservative Supreme Court to protect it…..the GOP will move to institutionalize its rule. Believe me.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Ad–all of those things you say are true, but those things were true before the election, and we still got trump.
glenn
7 days ago
Murph – I understand your pessimism. I just don’t think that right after this awful disruption of our democracy that it would seem as clear that this will pass. It will, this was and is a perversion of oour demoocracy and the pendulum has always swung back. It will again, helped with a huge push by Trump’s horribleness.
AdLib 7 days ago
Ad…essential reading:
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Ad–in addition, the Dems need to get their ground game going again. We need a national chair like Howard Dean, who can ignite the base. Personally, I think Obama would be great, but I’m sure he has other ideas.
glenn
7 days ago
glenn – Trump supporters hate Ryan and see him as a traitor. Ryan won re-election in his district but the Trump voters see him as betraying them. They tried to primary him but failed.
AdLib 7 days ago
Well, got to sally forth and do the shopping. see you all next week, hopefully in a little more optimistic mien.
pinkpantheroz
7 days ago
Murph – Unfortunately, you and glenn are in red states where you’ll look around and see these Repub majorities looking unstoppable. But from my perspective here in Cali, I see a temporary energizing of Repubs in red states but the eventual destruction a Trump presidency will bring to the economy, health care, social unrest, etc. will weaken them.
AdLib 7 days ago
Ad–I hope you’re right; I really do. In the meantime,though, this country is going to suffer horribly under trump.
glenn
7 days ago
‘Night, PPO. Take care.
glenn
7 days ago
Say hi to Sally Forth for me, PPO!
AdLib 7 days ago
Ad….look at a map that shows the electoral shifts….
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Murph – Opened that article, will read after Vox.
AdLib 7 days ago
Well….I am calling it a night. Ignorance, my friends, is the GOP’s ally and it is a powerful one.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Good night all.
MurphTheSurf3
7 days ago
Murph – We saw the maps and polls saying just the opposite weeks before the election.
AdLib 7 days ago
G’night, Murph. I’m right behind you. G’night all.
glenn
7 days ago
Defeatism is a mistake, Murph.
AdLib 7 days ago
Ad–yes, those maps and polls said just the opposite, and yet we still have trump. That is the reality; that is where our defeatism comes from. Once again, I admire your optimism, and truly hope you are correct. Just give me and Murph time to adjust to this horrible new reality.
glenn
7 days ago
Therte have been much darker days in our history and world history that were overcome, Giving up is not only mistaken, it’s never proven to be correct.
AdLib 7 days ago
And now I’m going for sure. Good night!
glenn
7 days ago
Night glenn!
AdLib 7 days ago
We have entered the twilight zone my American friends,the usual laws of physics are out the window
Beatlex
7 days ago
True dat! But in every Twilight Zone, there’s a moral to the story.
AdLib 7 days ago
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