Watching the RNC convention was a bit like watching a group enactment of a nervous breakdown. You had every neurosis on display not to mention all seven of the deadly sins battling for dominance.

Today the DNC convention begins and from the advance word, we’re in store for less schizophrenia and more rational speeches about reality (one of the top banned substances at the RNC).

So feel free to share your thoughts and observations about the DNC Convention on this thread and feel free to check your RNC-convention-watching-straitjacket at the door.

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Kalima
Admin

Just for the record, trump said he has no connection whatsoever to Russia after his outrageous statement this week. Right! Who me??

—-

Donald Trump exclusive: Russian mob-linked fraudster a ‘key player’ in presidential hopeful’s business ventures

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/26/exclusive-russian-mob-linked-fraudster-a-key-player-in-donald-tr

—-

Here’s What We Know About Donald Trump And His Ties to Russia

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/heres-what-we-know-about-donald-trump-and-his-ties-to-russia/2016/07/29/1268b5ec-54e7-11e6-88eb-7dda4e2f2aec_story.html

Nirek
Member

It is hard to give up on a political ideal that you believe is the best in your lifetime and settle on “the lesser of two evils”. I’m coming around, but it bothers me that people who don’t agree that Bernie is by far a better choice than any we have today. I believe that many of the “Bernie or bust” folks will hold their nose and vote for Hillary like I will.

The last thing I want to see is trump in the position to appoint Justices to the SC. This is one of the most important reasons to vote for Hillary over trump! Actually trump is wrong on every issue except, maybe the TPP. He may even just be giving “lip service” to us against it. I just don’t trust trump on any issue.

I hope that Hillary will try to get us out of these endless wars. I supported Bernie because he is against endless war and huge defense budgets. I am not sure Hillary will do anything to cut the fat out of the defense budget. Time will tell.

Bernie has gotten a bunch of his issues in the platform and I am proud of him for that and also for the way he conducted his campaign. Bernie never took advantage of her weaknesses or her email scandals. By running a fair and clean campaign, Bernie has shown us how politics should be done.

I will back Hillary for POTUS. It will be good to see the first woman President and have her a Democrat to boot.

Peace

KillgoreTrout
Member

Hey Nirek. Do you mind if I ask just what your political ideals are?

Bernie hasn’t given up. He has simply joined in Hillary in preventing the absolute worst candidate in US history from becoming president of this great country.
He has vowed to continue to work with Hillary in moving our country forward, in every critical area of governance. Elizabeth Warren will also be joining Hillary and Bernie in the struggle.

The 2016 platform of the democratic party is the most progressive platform since FDR, and possibly even more so. I really don’t see any good reason you should be unhappy with the way things have turned out. Sure, your guy didn’t get the nomination, so I understand being a bit disappointed about that, but Hillary is NOT the enemy. She honest to goodness really is NOT the enemy.
I know how you feel about the environment, clean, renewable energy, and social justice. Most Americans feel the same way. Hillary feels the same way.
This is politics. We don’t always get what we want. We have to recognize the best and the brightest and work to give them the power they need to change things for the better. That’s all we can really do, rationally, civilly and peacefully.
I am joyful that Bernie’s monumental efforts have moved the democratic party more to the left, especially on social and environmental issues.
Think of your granddaughter, that you love so dearly. Think about helping to make her future brighter. Cheer up old, friend. The sky is not falling.

Nirek
Member

Sure you can ask any question, KT.
Thanks to Bernie the platform is the most progressive in history. There are a few issues that I would have liked to see also in the platform.
1, bankers who break the law should be prosecuted, not fined and allowed to go back to their jobs.
2, Fracking!
3, The defense budget is now 55% of the budget over all. We could make some big cuts in that bloated defense budget.

I believe that every item on Bernie’s agenda was right for America. I believe that Bernie is a rare politician, honest, morally correct, and fair minded. The best candidate we have ever had in my life time.

That is why I am disappointed with Hillary. She is not the best choice we had. That said, she is the best choice we have now.

I just had high hopes for our environment and economy.

I never have had as much respect for a politician as I do for Bernie. Maybe because I know him better than most other people do. I have talked to him in person on a few occasions.

I hope that clears the air some for you. Peace, my friend.

KillgoreTrout
Member

Thanks Nirek. I think your hopes for the environment haven’t been dashed. Bernie and Hillary will both work for better regulations and clean energy. They both feel the same about that issue.

kesmarn
Admin

Thanks so much for your thoughts, Nirek. I agree. Bernie has every reason to be proud. He ran a clean campaign and he kept his word regarding his initial promise to support the eventual nominee. No one could ask for more.

And this was in the face of DNC duplicity and — I believe — corruption. When all is said and done, he’ll be able to hold his head high. Debbie Wasserman Schultz? Maybe not so much.

Now the mission is to keep The Donald out of the White House. And to continue to hold the Democratic Party accountable for once again returning to its FDR ideals and for advocating for the common man. Not the corporations. And for keeping this country out of war.

No more endless war!

KillgoreTrout
Member

I hate to be a bummer here, but when has the world been without war? Sure would be nice, but not bloody likely. Unfortunately we have enemies, civilization itself has enemies now. No way around it that anybody can figure.

Our enemies want a global Caliphate and see all westerners as obstacles in the way of their nutty goals.

At least were don’t have a hundred or two hundred thousand troops engaged in combat.

kesmarn
Admin

Homie, I know there’s a lot of rhetoric out there about “caliphates,” but I think Pope Francis nailed it more accurately when he said that a great deal of the bloody conflict around the world is rooted in human greed, the love of money and the will to exploit other human beings — not religion or even nationalism. (Although religion and “patriotism” are used as a pretexts to motivate the hapless warriors who get sucked into the endless conflict.)

My hope is that the next administration can go back to being focused on defending American moral values, rather than “protecting American interests” around the globe. Fingers crossed. And I’m willing to take a wait-and-see, patient attitude. Not wishing any more challenges for the next American president than the normal ones that go with the job. Because if the president fails (no matter which party), in a sense the whole country does too.

And we’ve already been there with Dubya. And then some.

KillgoreTrout
Member

Well, I think the Pope is first, and foremost defending religion. He’s in that business.
There is absolutely a religious component to this whacked out dream of building a global Caliphate. That is really what these nutbags want. It’s not just rhetoric, and unfortunately, they’re not going to give it up. These maniacs don’t mind dying. It’s something they are eager to do.
We can discuss their motivations, but it won’t change the fact that they are bent on killing westerners…infidels, and anybody who doesn’t bow to their demands.
It’s a brave new world Homie.

kesmarn
Admin

Well, sadly, in many ways it’s anything but a brave new world, Homie. It’s an fearful old one. One that seems to be veering back to old cold war mentalities and is giving growing room and a listening ear to right wing fear-mongering and xenophobia.

One that’s afraid of the kind of self-examination that might lead to the conclusion that this “exceptional” country has had a lot to do with radicalizing Muslim youth around the world.

One that’s afraid to admit even a mere 10,000 Syrian refugees to this country who have already been thoroughly vetted and cleared.

One that says “Love trumps hate,” but seems to be too fearful to actually believe it.

Kalima
Admin

Just finished watching the President’s speech, and he knocked it all the way to the moon and back. He was sensational! America has been so very lucky to have him for the last almost 8 years. An incredible man of passion, honesty, integrity with a deep love for his country, the American people and determination to improve lives for the better.

Simply wonderful!

KillgoreTrout
Member

Signed, Sealed and……..DELIVERED!

I think this speech will be remembered for quite some time to come. And so will the man who delivered it! 😉

pinkpantheroz
Member

Couldn’t agree more, Kalima. Boy, will he be missed, and the poor TP schmucks don’t realize it yet.

Kalima
Admin

Two people touched my heart tonight. The President when he talked about his white grandparents and the change of tone in his voice. Then Bernie Sanders sitting there with his wife when Obama praised him and finished with “Feel the Bern” which brought a wistful smile to Bernie’s face.

Many won’t know what they have had until he’s gone.

glenn
Member
glenn

After listening to President Obama’s speech, I have one thing to say, and then I’m going to bed!

I would rather be led by hope than ruled by fear!

Peace!

G’night!

KillgoreTrout
Member

Hey Ad! I understand what you and Kalima and Kes are saying, and for the larger part, I completely agree. Maybe we are defining the term Buster differently.
These people hate Hillary with an unbalanced passion. They hate the DNC and think the primaries were rigged to the point of actual voter fraud, which is just not the case. Many of them are not democrats and trash us like there’s no tomorrow. They attack Elizabeth Warren almost as ruthlessly as they do Hillary, and they trash Obama as well.
I have to say, you are much more optimistic about these fools than I am.
I hope you are right, because I would love to see them understand and act like responsible adults instead of petulant children.
I’m not going bonkers over this, by any means, but I had to let my opinion be known. What really jerks my chain is that these people call themselves progressive. All the while they are willingly taking part in aiding and abetting Trump. Hard not get pissed at them. I’m no saint.
I will say, that some of them are surely paid Trump trolls pretending to be Busters. So there’s that.

Fergie1
Member
Fergie1

Exactly KT. My sentiments totally. I could not add anything better than what you have written. I think some are missing the point. I’m with Sarah Silverman!

KillgoreTrout
Member

Thanks Fergie!

Kalima
Admin

Funny you should mention repub trolls, KT, as I had though that being likely. In 2008 there were so many on HP who admitted being payed for it. In 2012 we had some here on The Planet too but they were soon shown the back door. Stands to reason that they would try to widen the gap between Bernie voters and Hillary voters at this crucial time.

Kalima
Admin

Hi KT, ran out of buttons so will reply here. Yes, I understand your frustration and would suggest not to engage them anymore. Alienating will only end up with a loss of votes for Hillary with those who are still undecided, and that was my point about the video not being helpful at a time that Hillary will need every vote she can get. Multiple kudos for you for remaining polite, I know only too well how difficult that can be at times.

Now I really have to get some work done.

KillgoreTrout
Member

Thanks Kalima!

Fergie1
Member
Fergie1

Just posted this in TO/OT but can’t resist posting again here in case!

No disrespect to any “principled” people intended!

https://www.youtube.com/embed/hLpE1Pa8vvI?autoplay=1&autohide=1&showinfo=0&iv_load_policy=3&rel=0

KillgoreTrout
Member

Oh Fergie, if I could give that video a thousand thumbs up, I would. The creativity alone deserves many kudos, but the message there is spot on, as well.

Thanks! I was literally laughing out loud nearly through the whole thing!

Kalima
Admin

You know what, Fergie, this is exactly the kind of thing that will turn off the 85% of Bernie supporters who have said that they will vote for Clinton in November and make them rethink their decision. If you remember their valid anger at being insulted by the Clinton surrogates and Bill Clinton, then painting any group with the same brush could prove to be counterproductive. Not all young people are the same, not all Bernie supporters are young people, it might be useful for Clinton supporters to remember that as only half of her fight is over, and the constant ridicule after giving up their dream of having Bernie as the nominee, could just as easily backfire.

KillgoreTrout
Member

They have no sense of humor and take themselves wayyy too seriously. Almost every Buster I correspond with has a sense of entitlement that is acres wide and a mile high. It’s all about them and their precious consciences. I know this may sound harsh and overly judgemental, but I see it every damn day.
Bernie is now working with Hillary and has asked his supporters to join him in defeating one of the biggest threats to decency, peace and prosperity that this nation has ever face in a candidate for the presidency of the United States of America! My country, and millions and millions of others’. I have little time or patience, for someone’s hurt feelings when it comes to this election.

We don’t need them. Fortunately, there are plenty of mature, intelligent Bernie supporters that understand the crisis way face. They understand the huge threat that looms before them, like a dictator’s gigantic ghost from decades past.
They will have no trouble voting for Hillary, because they know that the perfect, is the enemy of the good.
Hey, it’s their future at stake here, us Boomers are on our way out.

What rough beast, it’s hour come round at last

Slouches toward Washington.?

Kalima
Admin

If you don’t need them, why insult them further?

What with the insults to young women voting for Bernie from the Clinton campaign, the demeaning Berniebros also from the Clinton campaign, the blatant disrespect for the man they trusted and voted for, and the fact that every younger generation known to man has always protested against doing things they believe to be wrong, the holdout are not on their own.

I watched many video clip from both inside the convention hall and outside, and there were just as many older protesters as there were younger protesters. It was inevitable that not all of the 18 million who voted for Bernie would vote for Hillary, it happened in 2008 with some who voted for her, so why the double standard?

In 2008 there was Palin the clueless to deal with. This year it’s trump the clueless. My point is that trump is ahead in a few states, and now is not the time to alienate any of the voters who are still considering a vote for Hillary. She still has a tough fight on her hands, and a win, or a landslide is not a given. Having hope is good. Being complacent is dangerous.

In four years these voters will get to vote again, and will probably not be with the Democratic Party tainted by the behaviour of the DNC and the elite Dems.

KillgoreTrout
Member

I can’t answer for the behavior of others. I have given my opinion, from what I have seen, day, after day, after day.
The insults and false allegations, and outright demonization of not only Hillary, but Elizabeth Warren and even Bernie himself.
The Bernie or Busters I have encountered would rather burn the whole village down…to make it better.
I get passionate about this and not offered any untruths.
This is American politics, probably at it’s worst. this is beyond my control.
I don’t believe I mentioned age in my comment. but yes, the majority of Never hillarys, are young.
I also said in a previous post, that if I were 18-20 these days, I’d probably being screaming for revolution too.
There comes a time when people have to face reality, like it or not, and the Busters need to be reminded of thaat little fact.
I make a clear distinction between sensible Bernie supporters, and those that refuse reason and logic.
I will not apologize for how I feel about them. I am merely expressing my personal opinion. I don’t expect everybody to agree with it.
I have spent hours and hours being polite and writing comment after comment trying to explain the situation. They don’t want to listen. I too have been insulted in amyriad of ways, merely for saying that I plan to vote for Hillary. I will not coddle fools. That’s just me.

KillgoreTrout
Member

Kalima, again, I’m talking about the hardcore Busters that vow never to vote for HIllary, under any circumstance. i am not generalizing when referring to them.
The Buster I encounter are on Salon, and some of them are obviously intelligent in other areas. We have things in common, but not when it comes to this.
I know what I’m talking about, because I see it every day.
i see them as irrelevant, and they have made themselves irrelevant when it comes to this race.
I don’t coerce anyone. I merely state my opinions, informed opinions, on a few internet discussion boards.
I wasn’t talking about millennials only, or the video.
I have even more contempt for the old holdouts, because they of all people should know better.
As I said, I have spent hours and hours with these people, being politie and diplomatic even. I have explained over and over and over again what is at stake, and they don’t give a shit.
I tell that over 12 million people will lose access to proper healthcare. They don’t care. I tell them that women will lose the right to chose how to manage their own bosies and lives, they don’t care. I tell them nothing will be done to improve the lives of black people, they don’t give a squat. I tell them thousands upon thousands of Latino families will be split apart by irrational deportations, they don’t care. I remind them that Trump has vowed to stack the SC with RW judges, who will have lifetime appointments. They don’t care.
It makes me ill, and really, considering how much they anger me, I’m still being polite.

Kalima
Admin

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, KT, but generalisation is never fair or accurate. You mentioned once that you commented on Yahoo, if that is the case, then I’m not surprised that you encounter the worst of the worst from any party.

My point was that the Dem party will lose a majority of the 20 to 40 year old voters for the next GE, even those now willing to vote for Hillary to stop trump. i respect and understand how you feel, but this conversation was about the video and rubbing salt in the wounds of voters, not just the busters; who might still be deciding to vote for Hillary. Her becoming the next president should not be taken for granted even if trump has insulted many groups of eligible voters. We have no idea how people will be feeling on Election Day, or what could happen in the time from now until then. All we can hope for is that more people will come to their senses, but it won’t happen if the insults don’t stop on either side. Trying to force people to do something or make them feel guilty, will usually have the opposite results. That is one thing I remember about my own youth.

I will miss most of the initial reactions after the election because I leave for Europe on the 6th of November and won’t be back until the 14th. I also won’t have the time to access a computer. Those stupid enough to vote for trump are thankfully in the minority. Those not voting at all are throwing away a chance to be a part of defeating a monster. That’s on their conscience should he win.

You and others are happy to vote for Hillary. Bernie supporters are being asked to vote for a person they don’t trust, don’t like, and don’t want to vote for.

So we will just have to agree to disagree on the merits of the video at a time Hillary will need to garner every vote she can get.

pinkpantheroz
Member

We Do need great Education.
We do need some thoughts for youth.
We need good teachers in the classroom
Who will bring our Kids along.
“All in all it’s just another
Crack in the Glass!”

Congrats Hillary. One small step for a Woman …..

KillgoreTrout
Member

Hillary is about to shatter that ceiling. I would like to see millions more women break through.

glenn
Member
glenn

I’m actually learning a lot about Hillary’s early life. All I’ve ever heard is how she was a “Goldwater Girl”, and here is Bill pointing out some of the other things she’s done, many of which I didn’t know. I’ll wait for the fact checkers to tell me how much of it is true!

glenn
Member
glenn

Oh my, here comes Bubba!