• Beatlex : Hi,goodbye people,Happy 4th

  • AdLib : Thanks!

  • Miles Long : You as well…

  • AdLib : Miles, looks like it’s time to wrap Vox for the night! Have a great 4th weekend!

  • AdLib : Night Funk, hope you can get some sleep! Have a great weekend with the family!

  • Miles Long : Good night…

  • funksands : Have a great night everyone! Hope to “talk” to you soon.

  • funksands : Well I better toddle off too. Trying to get my kiddo to sleep isn’t going to be easy tonight. Big set of fireworks for our city go off about 4 blocks south of us. Nice view, but very very loud.

  • AdLib : Had our roof caught on fire once by a kid shooting off bottle rockets.

  • funksands : Ah

  • Miles Long : Chicago…North side.

  • AdLib : Night Murph! Have a great weekend!

  • funksands : Miles where you at again?>

  • Miles Long : Sounds like Iraq here…

  • funksands : Assholes across the street setting off fireworks right downtown. grrrr

  • funksands : Or something like that….

  • funksands : Night Murph. Happy US birthday to you. I love this country just as much as I ever have and people like you make me optimistic that we’ll make it better again.

  • funksands : Altio and Roberts have another 30 years on the bench, they’re in no hurry.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Well, my friends, a night of conspiracy-minde dness has worn me to a nub…so I am slinking off into the noisy night- gun fire all around….and some firecrackers.

  • AdLib : And risking so much over EOs seems like an unwise move when they have been so successful in their gradual reshaping of our nation.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…and given the House and the Court I suggest that they are going to go as far as they have been told to go.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Funk- the redefining of personhood has provided a path for more far ranging changes….

  • funksands : Murph, as far as they’re allowed to go.

  • AdLib : Miles – The pattern that the Roberts court has established is prudence at chipping away, a little bit here and there, to shape our nation into what they want it to be. Even the latest Hobby Lobby ruling, they went out of their way to say how narrow they intended it to be. This is not a court that takes huge steps, it wants to use a thousand cuts to bleed our democracy.

  • funksands : Murph, I do think Ad is right about one thing. This is not a “power grab” or some sort of soft coup. This is simply the continued chipping away at the public authority to control corporate behavior

  • MurphTheSurf3 : To what lengths are the billionaires who own the GOP willing to go? That is a root question.

  • Miles Long : I doubt it would happen, Ad.

  • AdLib : What we’re discussing here is, what if the SCOTUS declared that they can violate a cornerstone of our legal system? It would be a Constitutional Crisis and some, mostly Repubs would support them while Obama and Dems would oppose them. I don’t see it happening though.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad…I hope you are correct but frankly the last two rulings have me wondering if there are any limits. I wonder if the power brokers have gotten to Roberts and he is now theirs like Scalia, Thomas, and Alito are.

  • funksands : Ad, I’m not so sure. I think they’d be afraid to. Oh they’ll complain, they’ll even threaten impeachment if they ever get the House back, but ultimately they’ll “do” nothing.

  • AdLib : Funk – If that happened and I don’t think it would, that the SCOTUS 5 break the law regarding the necessity of being an injured party to sue, part of the bedrock of judicial law, then yes, I think Obama and many Dems would refuse to accept their ruling.

  • Miles Long : Funk, That won’t happen. But POTUS can make the House’ actions untenable, especially since he doens’t need to hold back in service of reelection.

  • funksands : Miles, the SCourt is subject to impeachment, just like the President. The House would have to bring it for a vote though.

  • AdLib : Murph – This is all pretend stuff, no way do I expect Roberts to endanger his court’s power by making such a big power grab so it won’t happen. But in this scenario, no, I wouldn’t advise the President to send any national guard into any unfriendly state. We would just see more of what we’re seeing now with the ACA, SYG, etc., the red states would abide by the SCOTUS and the blue states wouldn’t. More division and a Constitutional Crisis…it would be crazy. But that’s not going to happen.

  • funksands : By the way, totally off-topic: «link»

  • Miles Long : Please, let’s not discount that POTUS is a Constitutional Scholar. He knows more than the SC, and has the bully pulpit from which to effect change. To believe that the SC or the House can act with impunity is foolish.

  • funksands : Ad, that’s the point. If no harm actually needs to be shown, but rather standing is granted “just because”.

  • funksands : According to the Heritage Foundation, there is no harm in Executive Orders (under Bush)

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad- so, the fed calls out the troops to quell those states standing with SCOTUS…? Imagine where that leads us.

  • AdLib : Funk – I’m not a lawyer so bear with me but…what specific harm can Congress claim? If an EO helps immigrants, what specific harm does that do to House members?

  • funksands : That’s how crazy this has become, where I can imagine the Court doing anything “just because” they have 5 votes to do it.

  • AdLib : Funk – The President is the Commander in Chief of the military. States and cities already ignore some federal laws, like marijuana criminalization. The SCOTUS has no military or police force it controls. If it lost credibility, it may have red states and cities following it but blue states and cities not doing so. It would be a massive Constitutional Crisis but I don’t see the SCOTUS getting universal support for illegal actions.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad, Funk and Miles…I spoke with a friend, an attorney and professor of Constitutional History….He believes that Scalia, Alito and Thomas have a pact to set the Constitution on its proper path- the one they have defined. Roberts decision on ACA was an aberration for which he paid and now they are going for broke….

  • funksands : Ad, true. Bad wording. Why not give standing because of the great harm the President is inflicting on Congress by bypassing their authority?

  • AdLib : Take care PPO!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Taaa Taaa PPO

  • funksands : Thanks Pink!

  • AdLib : Funk – You can’t sue someone because of potential harm, you can only sue someone because they have caused harm. So that’s not really a path for the Repubs.

  • pinkpantheroz : Cheerio, everybody Up Over. I’m off to do some shopping. Enjoy the reast of the 4th.