AdLib is online.
  • AdLib : See you then, Sally!

  • SallyT : Okay, I’m out the door. See you later around here somewhere!

  • SallyT : Never understood that either, AdLib.

  • AdLib : Sally, looks like we’re closing down the Vox Populi bar once more together. Thanks so much, time to turn out the lights I think, grab a bottle of whatever you’d like and have a great weekend!

  • AdLib : Whoops, missed that Murph had checked out, a belated goodnight to you, Murph!

  • AdLib : Sally – It still bewilders me how the majority of Repubs are poorer, rural white folks who haven’t a prayer of becoming millionaires…b ut in a disconnected way, imagine that they somehow will some day so they obliviously fight as the army of the wealthy. Poorly educated people in denial about reality and their being manipulated. I do feel bad for them, if only they had been taught critical thinking and had a good education, they wouldn’t be angry, limited in job potential and easily manipulated.

  • AdLib : Night CL! Get some rest this weekend! Welcome back to Cali! And turn that dehumidifier off as soon as it’s done!

  • SallyT : Did you watch the video that he did for the Teacher’s Union or the one with Hannity?

  • AdLib : Sally, I will watch that video. I appreciate his saying straight up in the media what we say to each other.

  • SallyT : See you later around here CL! I’ll stay dry, I think…….

  • AdLib : Sally,

  • choicelady : Well dear friends, I am absolutely knackered and am about nuts from the elephant-sized dehumidifier blasting in my ear for over three hours how. I think I’m turning IT off and taking myself to bed. Have a GREAT weekend everyone – Sally stay dry if you can! See you all next week I hope. Murph – get better? I’m sorry you’ve been unwell and hopeyou heal quickly. Good night!

  • SallyT : Good night, Murph.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice I will spend some time reading up on Mondragon…grea t lead. Thank you. And goodnight.

  • SallyT : AdLib, watch that video of Asner’s when you have time. It is cute but it is so true. Explains how the wealthy got us to believe how we all will be rich like them someday so we have to let them win now because someday that will be us! BUT, we are getting smart, as the video shows.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Well folks…time to fold my tent. Been nice being back with you tonight. Thanks for conversation.

  • choicelady : Murph – OUR level of CEO pay? Yes. Mondragon votes on pay. The top manager of the whole corporation gets 9 times what the assembly person does. If he or she on the floor gets 100 E a week, he or she at the top gets 900 E. Instead of 900,000!!! Most Mondragon managers make 7 times more. And ALL of them in the corporation – all 83,000 – VOTED ON THOSE PAY SCALES. It is hugely successful but no one will EVER get stinking rich at any of those jobs.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL Left out a key word. CL- Know someone who works in Germany in upper level management. He says the big bosses there consider the level of CEO pay here “a crime”.

  • AdLib : I do think the whole trickle down and job creator BS, supporting the real class war going on is being destroyed. If Obama succeeds as anticipated in raising rates on the wealthy and presiding over an improved economy, it really could be a death blow to the whole argument for giving to the wealthy. The GOP’s central reason to exist will cease to exist.

  • SallyT : That is right, AdLib. That is what I meant.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL- Know someone who works in Germany in upper level management. He says the big bosses there consider the level of CEO pay “a crime”.

  • choicelady : AdLib – you nailed it. MBA studies all presume that the firm – be it a steel mill or a bank – is identical to every other firm. The MBA holder is horrified to discover it’s not true, and that they do NOT understand how to shift their thinking when they move from corporation to corporation. So they kill them off as they go – they don’t “manage” so much as “pillage” for the short term bottom line. MBAs are killing American ingenuity, know how, and drive.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib and Sally- the GM at the costco I know began as a stocker at the company 25 years ago. He went to college in a Costco cooperative program and paid back his loans while working. Intersting Wal Mart had such a program long ago.

  • AdLib : MBAs are only taught about how to make money, not how to oversee a long term sustainable system.

  • choicelady : Murph – yes a little. Used to teach a course in post-war political economy of France, UK, Germany. All European nations (save from Thatcher on in the UK) did this, and it has been quite to their advantage. Mondragon shows how successful one CAN be with integrated decision making – they have ZERO unemployment while Spain’s unemployment is 25% and climbing. Banding together makes for sustainable economics. But – it also means the rich do NOT get it ALL. Americans desiring to be the “rich and famous” cannot bring themselves to share, and sharing IS the foundation of stability.

  • SallyT : MBA’s are corporate taught.

  • AdLib : CL – Yes, read it and I think you are 100% right! If blue collar workers can do the job of the Harvard MBAs, the justification for paying them millions and giving them power evaporates. Of course it makes them mad.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally- Yes, WalMart has to accept delivery to its distribution warehouses from whoever drives its stuff in, but after that the system is all theirs.

  • choicelady : If you think about it, the GOP in gov’t AND in business is made up of, at best, the mediocre people. Being challenged by less well educated people who work for wages has GOT to make them nervous. Labor’s wisdom and knowledge show up the poorly educated and ignorant “leaders” who have to put labor down to lift themselves up.

  • SallyT : Oh, and Murph, there are the long shore men….

  • SallyT : Murph, that is WalMart for you! But, I know for a fact that there are Teamsters at several points before the WalMart trucks get to the terminals to load.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…do you know anything about the German system of governance for their big businesses? Planning councils made up of the owners, the unions, the financiers, and the government reps….everyone with skin in the game.

  • KillgoreTrout : Oh, you too my friend.

  • choicelady : Good night, KT! Have a lovely weekend!

  • AdLib : Murph – No question, the GOP is the party of killing the golden goose…IOW, greed over good business sense.

  • KillgoreTrout : Have a great night Ad.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sally…WalMart handles that by having its own non-union drivers…

  • choicelady : AdLib – see my reply about anti-union sentiment. It’s all about ego and pretending labor is just a commodity and of no use to the company.

  • AdLib : Night Killgore!

  • SallyT : See you later, KT. And, I have a couple in there just for you. I’ll wait to see if you guess which they are.

  • choicelady : Sally – the view that labor is a commodity is very 19th century, and it did not work then and does not work now. Too many corporations wanted to break the Social Contract thinking it saved money. It does not, but you cannot get them to see it. Eastern AirLines had no profit from 1969-87 but GOT profitable when the IAM union got a seat on the Board AND got the airline to change how it did business based on their recommendations. Frank Borman (former astronaut) was SO angry that the UNION made money for the company when HE did not, he sold out to union buster Frank Lorenzo just for the ego issues. I am convinced that class warfare really comes down to the refusal to admit that blue collar people can and do know more about companies than managers whose MBAs never prepared them for the real world. It’s that stupid really.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…I have to believe that the GOP is driven by a lot of mindless ideology- and certainly the business approach that many of its biggest supporters embrace is one that is based on short term profit up against long term growth.

  • AdLib : It’s interesting, the spate of labor protests that have been going on. Teachers in Chicago, port workers in LA, Fast food workers and Walmart workers nationally…the re’s a real movement here that could be harnassed.

  • KillgoreTrout : Ah thanks Sally. I don’t doubt ya. I will say goodnight for now. take care and I’m looking forward to the Sunday Funnies.

  • SallyT : Without the teamsters, Murph, those truckloads of products won’t show up at Costco.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : At the Costco I have gotten to know the Teamsters have a strong presence. The Costco approach….give them a room to meet in and offer refreshments…. smart.

  • AdLib : Murph – So if Repubs are all about what’s best for business, what economic justification do they have for opposing unions and better pay and treatment of workers?

  • SallyT : You can confess to me anytime, KT. After a few drinks I might tell you a tale or two that might just shock the boots off ya!