AdLib : Bito, just skimmed that site, it’s a wacko nobody. Sure, let’s take our marching orders from this guy, his BS seems nasty!
MurphTheSurf3 : Bito….your last link….what a well crafted, nice looking, den of lies.
bito : G’night all
AdLib : Cheers Murph! Have a great weekend!
bito : At #fullrepeal it seems that their go to reference is «link» I wonder who is behind this site? Mitt?
MurphTheSurf3 : On this note…having celebrated the ACA victory and having bashed Sketch with a little contempt for Issa and his truth adverse gang…..I think it is time to toddle off to bed….a happy mojito snooze is pending……Che ers!
AdLib : Well, looks like it’s that time, to close the Vox Pop bar. Thanks to Murph for the delicious mojitos! Bito, great to see you on Vox tonight! Take care all and thanks for another invigorating and enlightening chat!
bito : Nite C’Lady, take care, sorry about your Ice box.
AdLib : Thanks CL, get that fridge back to work! I too am still processing my excitement about the ACA victory, it is so huge! Have a great weekend and see you soon!
AdLib : CL – I always look for subtext to figure out people. What the cloaking of Lady Justice represented was a religious extremist whose regard for institutional norms was non-existent. He was oblivious to other ways of thinking and other views. I’m a big Sherlock Holmes fan and deductive reasoning always appeals to me.
choicelady : OK all – I’m heading out, too. Our refrigerator just dies its second death in 6 months. Have to go re-ice til we find out if it’s fixable or we need a new one. Then off to bed since I woke up thinking about ACA at 4 am and never went back to sleep. Have a GREAT weekend, hope those with rain get sun, and those with heat get relief. Be well – see you maybe next week?
AdLib : Murph – Thanks for these details. This shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that this was solely a political witch hunt and Issa is as crooked as they come. When this all comes out, and Holder should be aggressive about getting the truth out there, Issa will have lost all credibility and be exposed as the slimeball he is.
MurphTheSurf3 : Night Sabreen….
choicelady : AdLib – KNOWING that about Ashcroft in a way made the Eagle song and the nudie coverup less awful. I was already creeped out!
AdLib : Night Sabreen! Take care!
bito : Can I say it this time Sabreen? Good night see you on twitter.
MurphTheSurf3 : Report: Former ATF head blamed aides for not informing him of Fast and Furious By Meghashyam Mali – 12/25/11 12:13 PM ET Tweet Kenneth Melson, then-head of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), blasted subordinates in a deposition taken in July claiming they failed to inform him of a controversial gun-tracking program that may have led to the death of a Border Patrol agent. «link» AND GUESS WHAT…ISSA DID NOT ENTER THE DEPOSITION INTO THE RECORD OR CALL HIM…Holder knew nothing because he knew nothing….his basic point.
AdLib : CL – I didn’t know all of that about Ashcroft at the time but his severe RW religiousness was creepy. Hearing him sing “Let the Eagle Fly” is like witnessing a religious zealot in mid-frenzy. And his covering up Lady Justice was really scary, a Taliban was in charge of our nation’s justice system. Now I learn he was a friend to the Klan! What a POS.
choicelady : ‘Night funk! ‘Night Sabreen! I will look for you on Twitter!
choicelady : Sabreen – no, Issa has never been convicted of anything. Got off every time. Holder could not turn over any docs pertaining to ONGOING investigations. And Issa freaking well KNOWS that. He’s despicable, is Issa.
Sabreen60 : Night Funk. I’m right behind you. I’ll see some of you on the Twitter and hope to all of you next week.
MurphTheSurf3 : CL….Ashcroft’ s memory is reviled in Mo. among thinking people….so the 10 of us really don’t have any respect for him or what he did…..well, maybe 12.
AdLib : Sabreen – Add to that Issa has refused to have Bush era AGs and DoJ people testify about the original FFs and wouldn’t allow any testimony from anyone who contradicted his trumped up charges. It was a fraudulent endeavor and he looks slimier in its aftermath.
choicelady : bito – I’m spot on with you. Better a Blue Dog than a Bagger any day of the week. If this vote was well thought out as a way of retaining the seat, then strategically it’s not a bad idea. If the vote means nothing but it saves you, the incumbent, go for it. I’m also that pragmatic. Blue Dogs have voted well – Baggers NEVER do.
choicelady : AdLib – Ashcroft is one of the most corrupt people EVER. When he was Governor in MO, he allowed the KKK to sell their stuff on state property even though NO one else was permitted to do so. He is simply the MOST unprincipled man maybe EVER. He’s Assembly of God, let the Army of God get away with murder – literally – and was Attorney General so we dubbed him the AOGAOGAG. Still fits.
AdLib : Bito – Good point, I know that in politics, standing on principle one day can mean having a Bagger standing in your place the next. Still, one has to consider the issue of corruption in our democracy when our representatives don’t vote honestly but in order to help assure re-election.
bito : Night funk, keep in touch with yourself
Sabreen60 : Issa is a thug and if I’m not mistaken a convicted felon. The fact that he could investigate anyone is a joke. What really pissed me off was that Holder had turned over 7600 documents, appeared 11 times and was negotiating to turn over more documents. Also, Holder couldn’t provide certain docs Issa wanted. I don’t know how the majority of the public viewed this, but they may believe Holder is hiding something.
choicelady : Good night, funk! Go forth and get light tomorrow! You ALL will be better for it!
AdLib : Great chatting with you too, Funk. Have yourself a great weekend!
bito : Careful AdLib, there are many “bluedogs” that vote with leadership 85% of the time, including important ones. The Holder vote was a non vote but a yes vote for some to retain their seats. I would much rather have a blue dog than a teabagger
AdLib : Murph – Working with Repubs who feel helpless but to be minions of the baggers has got to be deteriorating on one’s self respect. Who wants to work for a toadie?
funksands : Folks, I gotta run. Great seeing all of you tonight. Please have a good weekend.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….and, I suspect, your understanding is at the root of my friend’s decision. He is not a hypocritical person. We disagree on most things but he has always been a straight shooter…but in his current setting, he cannot be.
SallyT : Sabreen, there is a good article on Mother Jones about this and the Fortune article that shows that the government wasn’t walking guns.
AdLib : CL – When your top law enforcement guy spends time covering up Lady Justice because she has breasts, literally covering up justice, what other clues does one need?
AdLib : Murph – That is an instructive tale on the destruction of the GOP. So the choice now is between a non-bagger who votes identically to baggers but only to go through the motions, and a bagger who votes the same way because he’s a true believer. How can these people live with themselves. He may think he is better than a bagger but he is more unprincipled because he’s voting against his beliefs while a Bagger is at least being true to his insane self.
Sabreen60 : Issa said he had no info that the WH was part of any coverup. He said he had no knowledge that Holder was part of any coverup. WTF?
MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen- I saw two Dems who did not vote for the contempt citation but who said they understood why they were doing it…the nature of their districts….par ty leadership gave them the go ahead…no pressure since holding the seat is the ultimate good.
choicelady : Murph – I sort of get your congressman’s actions, but even more I get why your friend is leaving.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…your LEO and Ashcroft contributions fill in a lot of blanks for me. Thanks.
choicelady : AdLib – I don’t necessarily subscribe to the “GOP created 9/11” conspiracy theory, but they sure botched the possibility of STOPPING it.
Sabreen60 : What about the 17 Dems who voted for contempt? How are they going to justify their vote?
bito : Sabreen, no there aren’t that many! actually they went up to Phoenix to do the straw buys. Not as much in Tucson
AdLib : Sabreen – Perhaps we can see the strategy of the NRA and Issa floating the gun control conspiracy theory about FF and Obama. They know that reasonable people who learn about what happened will want more controls on gun purchases so they did a first strike by howling about the conspiracy. That way, if Obama or Dems even bring it up, they’ll say, “Aha! What did we tell you?!”
SallyT : Yes, Sabreen, they are called straw sales and there are like 750 gun shops.
choicelady : AdLib – I got caught tangentially in the changes of Ashcroft’s reorganization of law enforcement. During a federal murder investigation it was a model of multi-jurisdicti onal cooperation until Ashcroft ordered the FBI to distance the agents and keep mum. That was Feb. 2001. He ruined – destroyed – inter-department al and even INTRA departmental cooperation. When the woman FBI agent in Minneapolis reported the suspicious air training of Muslims, she was told to shut up. That was critical info that never reached anyone who might have acted on it before 9/11. Ashcroft is now chief ethics leader for Xe – Blackwater. Figures.
MurphTheSurf3 : Re. the Contempt Vote….I got a chance to speak with “my” Congressman’s legislative director at his office yesterday. I know the guy and he, and his boss, are old time GOP. They keep their heads down. He told me that his boss was going to vote for the contempt citation because it means nothing and keeps him out of trouble. He suggested that better his boss than the Tea Partier waiting in the wings who is a true believer….I told the guy that since his boss is doing nothing for the district what difference does it make…..I got a lot of silence and then this statement….”y eah, well this is why I am throwing in the towel….”
Sabreen60 : If I understand correctly there are a gazillion gun shops along the border. Most don’t do background checks. Someone can buy a gazillion guns and sell them to whomever. So if this is true, how will anyone be able to control the guns going across the border? Are these sales known as “straw” sales?
SallyT : As far as gun control that is in AZ.
AdLib : And now that Holder has been harassed and abused by the RW, I would hope that he’s going to go after them on voter suppression with even more gusto.
SallyT : Especially in AZ, Bito. It sure has brought to light how stupid the laws or lack of laws are down there.
AdLib : Bito – I agree, I think Issa looks like a small, greasy fraud right now and he has so alienated the Dems in the House, when they finally take control of the House again, he’ll be very sorry.
choicelady : Murph – that is really shocking! I know one LEO in Springfield whom I really respect, and I’ve had the understanding, unspoken, that he’d agree with your acquaintance’s assessment. His issues are deeply embedded racism in the S’field department and that of surrounding areas. Same difference. He protected my friend from there – but his hands are tied in many ways even though he’s respected pretty much universally. MO is a creepy place in many ways.
AdLib : Murph – That’s not greatly surprising. Think about the pissing matches between the CIA and FBI that allowed the 911 terrorists to commit their acts! It’s absurd and outrageous.
SallyT : My daughter got mine here in town as a present. It is great. Has a timer. I will ask her tomorrow where she got it.
funksands : Murph, that’s an interesting perspective, and not the first time I’ve heard that.
AdLib : Funk – Now it becomes very clear why the NRA made the contempt vote a scored vote for them. They KNOW that loose laws are allowing the guns to go over the border and they don’t want Holder to do anything about it because all those murders represent profits for gun manufacturers.
bito : I think it actually back fired on Issa, more people are wanting some gun control than before.
MurphTheSurf3 : Spoke today with a drug unit officer from a sheriff’s office, high ranking, much experience, specialty field- meth labs….he says that EVERY federal law enforcement agency he works with is LAZY, INCOMPETENT, POORLY LED, AND LACKING DIRECTION and they control the money that goes to local enforcement….T his entire episode seems to him to be a PISSING MATCH between agents operating on two relatively low levels who successfully kept the info from their bosses which is why Holder does not want the interdepartmenta l e mails revealed.
choicelady : bito – oh, GOOD!
choicelady : ftunk – Ours is a BlueMax. Table top, gooseneck and ugly as sin, but it really helps him.
SallyT : Funk, my light is called Apollo and it is make by BriteLite.
funksands : Sally that would be great.
funksands : What’s really interesting about the FF case is how helpless the ATF seems in its fight against gun trafficking, border state prosecutors and drug gangs. The agents don’t paint a pretty picture.
AdLib : Murph – Heh! I think that instead of the PR bonanza Issa had hoped for, it has ended up being a net negative for the Repubs and shows them as being petty, hateful and dishonest. Overreaching seems to be the halmark of Repubs when they have power.
bito : I didn’t CL, I can’t talk to idiots on twitter.
SallyT : I have one, Funk! I can look it up for you.
choicelady : bito – be careful NOT to answer those folkd. I got banned last week for answering a string of RWNJ posts. They’re just MEAN.
AdLib : Bito – Romney is a human version of the RW, just a walking tower of lies. That’s all they have left, they have become wholly corrupt. Which is why an ongoing campaign to expose them as such could pay dividends down the line.
funksands : CL, what’s the brand? My wife and son suffer from SAD
choicelady : AdLib – the “contempt vote” was contemptible and fell like a thud. NO one is paying attention other than FOX.
MurphTheSurf3 : AD LIB…darn you….like Michael in the Godfather….”E very time I’m almost out…..you pull me back in….” Holder and the contempt vote. I am going to stick around for awhile.
choicelady : funk – my husband has SAD and has a light that we use for 30 minutes in the mornings when it’s dreary. I REALLY helps. I strongly recommend it. There are all ranges of prices. Google them and see if you can find one.
funksands : Ad, the GOP has faced very little consequence for any of their odious actions. Until they do, they won’t give a shit how stupid they look as long as the nodders and mouthbreathers get riled up.
SallyT : I think it is because we didn’t have much of a summer last year either.
AdLib : And since the Justice Department has of course refused to prosecute the bogus charge of contempt, that’s pretty much the end of it.
Sabreen60 : Nite AB!
bito : OT Just got hung up reading #FullRepeal on twitter, it’s full of RWNJ “facts'” about the ACA without a single link to any “facts” Wow, this is who we are against.
funksands : Sally, I’m on life support over this. I can’t remember the last time it bothered me so much.
SallyT : Funk, will he get warm here soon? Tell me it will.
AdLib : Now, on another subject, didn’t the GOP’s railroading of Holder come off as a stain on the GOP after the SCOTUS ruling?
Sabreen60 : Thanks for the mojitos, Murph. I blame you for all my typos. Stay safe.
funksands : Thinking about turning the heat on here tonight
SallyT : Cool out there AB.
funksands : Night Murph
funksands : Night AB
AdLib : AB, great having you here tonight! Sleep well and stay cool!
SallyT : Murph, be careful out there. Some of those Show me State folks maybe my relatives and they can be dangerous.
AdLib : Murph – Thanks for the mojitos! Delicious! Looking forward to the post! Have a great weekend!
AlphaBitch : Yikes. Look at the time! Time to crank up the AC and pass out. Night to all – see you soon, bros & sisters!
AdLib : CL – Whoops, sorry about that. You get my point though, he can only conceive of religion in a binary way, all religious people are ignorant fundamentalists and atheists are superior geniuses. He had to try and fit you in that narrw single box in his narrow little mind.
MurphTheSurf3 : ALL- time to go…..I will leave the dregs of the mojitos behind…I will work on the post I promised to do.
AlphaBitch : Diogenes died trying, CL. And so will I.
AlphaBitch : AdLib: you win.
choicelady : AdLib – actually I am NOT religious since I know almost nothing of doctrine. But we and I are people of FAITH which is wildly different since we have no use for the rules and rites and rigidity. Most of our members are the same – on a quest for truth. Nobody’s found it yet!
AdLib : AB – I once had a job shoveling elephant Scalia at the circus. People asked me why I didn’t quit and I responded, “What, and leave politics?”
choicelady : funk – SO glad you know the ditty! It’s a critical part of reworking justice.
AlphaBitch : Peter Rowan (the singer) once told me he was a Pentecostal Buddhist. I liked it.
choicelady : funk – I like your Daddy’s saying! Yeah – I guess that’s true, but he did not like my cc’ing Mikey at first. A fundamentalist atheist indeed. Well, my mother was an evangelical Unitarian, so I guess it’s all possible.
AdLib : CL – This guy has a very small mind and what he’s trying to do is to get you to fit into it. All religious people are one thing, you’re religious so you have to be that one thing. What a moron.
AlphaBitch : My dog took a Scalia in the neighbor’s yard.
MurphTheSurf3 : ALL….my post did not publish….Granh olm was fantastic tongiht…she took the governors who are saying they will implement Obamacare to task because she knows how governors really work…..and she brings in great experts. Love having someone as well spoken and sharp as Rachel with an amazing resume.
funksands : It’s the other ones you gotta worry about. Look at the bomb throwing clowns like Bachmann, Gingrich, Gohmert. They don’t actually decide anything or do anything. It’s the quiet, rational ones that steal the goose from the commons
AdLib : AB – I parked my car under a tree and got bird Scalia all over the windshield. I blame Obama.
AlphaBitch : Funk: and I’d prefer not to have that in my face, thank you kindly.
choicelady : AB – but he and I are allies around issues with the Military Religious Freedom Foundation. He wants to tax all churches, and to make his point, I guess I have to become a bad guy so it makes a perverted sense. But I told him since he wants to tax secular non-profits that if he REALLY stood by that, he had to tell Mikey. He has not got the nerve to do that!
SallyT : God flooded FL because He was tried of them having their heads in the sand.
funksands : CL, like my daddy always said: “At least he’s an asshole to your face”
MurphTheSurf3 : ALL-+— Jennifer Granholm was wonderful tonight…I love having a former governor (and a bunch of other offices too) as a pundit, host….she is Rachel with a very impressive resume.
AlphaBitch : Ask the Dominionists why God has flooded FL.
choicelady : funk – ain’t that the truth. There is no reasoning with this guy – he’s an atheist determined to make me a religious conservative so he can pound on me along with the dominionists. NOT TAKING IT.
AlphaBitch : My fave tactic is to thump the Bible back, with the directive from Jesus not to pray in public and all that.
AdLib : Funk – I just learned that my income tax refund is being held until I buy and eat two pounds of broccoli! Scalia, you were right all along!!!
choicelady : AB – well, some blame Obama for the wildfires. Others blame Mikey Weinstein for attacking the Dominionists trying to take over the Air Force Academy. One said it was God’s vengeance. So now God is burning out his supposed followers while Mikey is several hundred miles away? Like THAT makes sense!!! That;’s the Dominionist mindset.
MurphTheSurf3 : CL..an atheistic bible thumper….good lord (by which I, of course, mean Krishna).
AlphaBitch : AH, but CL – if you don’t take it literally he/she has no way to combat you. I mean, if you go all think-y and everything.
AdLib : CL – There are loonies on the atheist side just as on the religious side. This guy is a nut whatever his beliefs.
funksands : AdLib, fried foods aren’t allowed anymore in the era of Obamacare
funksands : CL, assholes come in all shapes and sizes.
SallyT : AB, I said the other day that we don’t need to be afraid of terrorist on planes. All they have to do is set fires around the country. We aren’t about to keep up with them anymore.
AlphaBitch : I took a huge Scalia and blamed it on Obama.
choicelady : ADLib and Murph – the Full Circle came to me this week when an atheist with whom I’m associated in the anti-dominionist work got furious with me because (I am not making this up) I WOULD NOT TAKE THE BIBLE LITERALLY. This from an anti-religious, anti-dominionist person. That is how nuts this country has become. HE kept pointing out verses he said my organization HAD to obey! I finally just had to delete him. How obnoxious is THAT?
funksands : Speaking of energy. This picture is wild. Picture of the NDakota tar sands from space at night. «link»
MurphTheSurf3 : AdLib…with Baptists and most of the other evangelical types, the minister is not the whole story….backing him up is the Church vestry, elders who form the core of the believers and who are eyes, ears, hands of the WORD of GOD in the (usually small, but there are lots of them) congregation. This creates a very disciplined, and closed crowd. As you say.
AdLib : My bag of fries fell on the floor today when I pulled out my burger. I blame Obama.
AlphaBitch : Aren’t they blaming Obama for the wildfires in CO???
AlphaBitch : CL: It is poring HUGE amounts of money in the state.
AdLib : We should post a string of videos of Romney and Repubs attacking Obama for gas prices then post the decreased price and have a cricket chirping.
AlphaBitch : Sally: no I did not know that. Shame. Oil junkies is whats we are.
choicelady : Ab – Well Frack him…
choicelady : Murph – I really DO understand about MO. Family history and a friend who had to flee Springfield one step ahead of the skinheads. Meth, incest, fundies – all mixed together – I get it. But I think McCaskill could build on the NON nuts parts of working families if she just WOULD. Blue Dogs get too scared. There’s IS a legitimate position, but it has to be taken in Affirmation, not in Fear of not being GOP Enough.
SallyT : AB, you know that is a big problem here. Hertz and Rental Trucks don’t have you fill the tank when you bring them back because they are having trouble with gas getting stolen out of the vehicles.
AdLib : Murph – My theory is that the more religiously subservient people are, the more vulnerable they are to being one of the GOP faithful. The GOP is like a hard right religion, they have a strict orthodoxy and unbelievers are ejected. You’re either with what the leaders say or against them. So critical thinking doesn’t occur. People who are used to wholly trusting authority figures like priests just project that onto Republican leaders and voices like Rush…and it helps that their religious leaders endorse those Republican leaders as preachers of gospel.
AlphaBitch : CL: I’m in Big Frackin’ Country, which is why Perry is so damn extra obnoxious of late.
AlphaBitch : Funk – and I got a video of you “getting” gas. Expect a knock on the door soon..
choicelady : AB – but you’re in OIL COUNTRY! We’re lucky it’s only $3.44 or whatever I said.
MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…hi…miss ed you slipping in through the side door….love your economic rundown…CL got to my “WHAT ABOUT GAS” comment….love it
funksands : AB: I got gas out of your car for $0
funksands : CL! Yes I did! Good catch.
AlphaBitch : HEY I got gas for $2.99 today at Costco.
AlphaBitch : Funk: In Romney speak, that’s Rut-ro!
choicelady : funk – you forgot gas prices dropping like a rock. In the past two months we’ve come down from $4.25 to $3.44. And where oh where is the credit to the Prez?
Sabreen60 : Nite Sue – take care.
AlphaBitch : Then thank you KQ. I mean that.
MurphTheSurf3 : CL…the trick in Mo. is to know how rural, and very backward, this place is. Religious fundamentalism defines the backwoods and any appeal to social justice is considered to be socialist/commun ist/atheist…de spite that this is a total rupture in logic since the condemnation happens in churches. I DO NOT understand how most of my neighbors can think anyone GOP is for them.
choicelady : Night Sue – write and tell me about your new place! I missed all that!
AdLib : No one fought harder on the web than KQ for the ACA to get it passed, this is a win for you KQ in many ways!
bito : Sorry Sabreen :lol;
funksands : Speaking of bad news for Romney: Housing prices and sales way up / Eurozone stabilizing / Stock market up / unemmployment claims dropping / ACA affirmed. Uh oh.
SallyT : Sorry Sabreen! I made that mistake, too. STAY PLEASE!
Sabreen60 : Nite KQ!
AlphaBitch : Nite KQ. Till tomorrow.
choicelady : KQ – take care of yourself. Now we’ve pinned down your insurance, focus on the YOU. Sweet dreasm!
AdLib : Night KQ! Have a relaxing weekend!
bito : See ya KQ, take care brother
funksands : Night KT / KQ / Sue /
SallyT : Gosh, KQ, I haven’t had much time to talk with you lately. Hope we can soon.
choicelady : Thanks, Sabreen – got it saved!
Sabreen60 : Bito, are you kicking me out?!? I was saying good night to KT
SueInCa : Night KT and I think I am out as well. My connection is starting to sign off by itself again
AdLib : CL – I do think Scalia has degraded so I’ll go along with him losing it but I don’t think he’s nuts. I think he’s become so self-indulgent that he thinks whatever he feels should be treated as righteous.
KQµårk 死神 : I’ve got to get some rest too. Keep up the good fight folks.
SallyT : Night Sabreen! Have a good weekend.
Sabreen60 : CL, here’s EJ’s column re Scalia: «link»
bito : G’night Sabreen, see you on twitter
SallyT : Good night KT. See you later and if you get to Portland you better look me up!
choicelady : KT – have a good night’s rest. Those neck things HURT, so take care. See you soon I hope!
choicelady : Sabreen – did not see Dionne’s column, thanks.
SallyT : Thank you Bito. you are always looking out for me!
AlphaBitch : KT: Night. catch you next week if not before…
AdLib : Night Killgore. Get some rest and stay positive. Big victory this week, more in Nov!
AlphaBitch : Sabreen: That’s great. I’ll find it later.
choicelady : AdLib – but his legal statements are no longer even about the law. That is where he used to keep control – it reflects a loss of focus, a retreat to emotionalism, and a distancing from his duty. THAT, more than his personal bluntness, is what makes me think he’s losing it.
Sabreen60 : Good night KT. Take care.
KillgoreTrout : Getting a few neck cramps (computer cramps)so Ill say good night to to you folks, until tomorrow. Stay young at heart!
AlphaBitch : CL: Agree totally on McCaskill.
SallyT : CL, someone that he fired from his casinos is suing him and it is all coming out. Supposely some brothel in China of all places. He has casinos around there.
Sabreen60 : EJ Dionne had a column calling for Scalia to resign.
bito : Here’s the link to Sheldon Adelson’s pimping «link»
AdLib : CL – I don’t know that Scalia is going nuts, I think he’s acquired that loss of self control syndrome that some people get when they’re older. it’s the, “At my age, why should I have to bite my tongue?!” And with someone as pompous and self-righteous as Scalia, that seems inescapable. He has no regulator anymore and it makes him happy.
SueInCa : kQ that Ricketts put money up against her He is pissed because Rahm shut the door on him
choicelady : KQ and Murph – I REALLY believe if McCaskill would be a DEM instead of an emphemeral Reep, she’d pull ahead. She could garner a lot of support from the really downtrodden in MO if she’d just stand up FOR them.
KQµårk 死神 : Last I saw McCaskill was losing by 8 points in polls.
AlphaBitch : CL: Aren’t they prostitutes of a sort themselves?
AlphaBitch : CL: I once had a friend murdered – we talked of it before – just when a sociopath loses “control” is when they are most dangerous.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sally T….love Reed. Been there for meetings.
choicelady : Sally – REALLY? Addelson has a prostitution ring and supports Mr. Holier than thou Newt?????? Now Mitt?????
AdLib : Murph – Very smart and agreed, it shows the effectiveness of turning big money ads against the entities themselves. My hope is that a more populist tone will grow out of the Dem convention and the resentment of big money will grow stronger so the more the advertise, the more people resent them and their ads.
SallyT : Reed college is here.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sally T…so much of Eddelson’s money is from Macow where his casinos, are also brothels and where the wild life generates a huge amount of money So this guy is funding the party of high end morality.
KillgoreTrout : Sally and Sabreen, my daughter lives in Portland, and I was there for almost a year, but mostly in Vancouver Wash.
AlphaBitch : Funk: I still have the shirt. Weirdest place I have EVER been to in my life….did you ever see the gorilla Ivan?
choicelady : AB and all – if you think back to Scalia’s “the Constitution doesn’t protect women”, from that point on, all his pronouncements have been illogical EVEN from his own points of view. I watched a state Senator go nuts, and she evidenced exactly the same pattern. Some things – OK. Some things – incresingly off the wall. She went deaf, part of it, and I had to warn another lobbyist NOT to touch her to get her attention. She’d have hit him. She was so scared at what was happening, but it made her constantly angry. I see the same in him. Dementia is very awful, and I think Scalia is going through that.
KQµårk 死神 : CL that’s a great point about the CA elections. The general election will have millions and millions of low information voters and hundreds of thousands (mostly poor and minority) votes will not be counted.
AlphaBitch : Sally: I think you are right. Funk: he’s a human bowling ball head with greasy hair.
funksands : AB, I used to live and work in Tacoma, but I never made it there.
funksands : Someone called Scalia a bitter, pompous martinet the other night. Martinet fits him.
SallyT : Didn’t Addledson have his prostitution ring brought out in court today?
SueInCa : My philosophy is if you think it you might as well have said it so I try not to think hate or wish bad things on others sometimes it just does not work though
AlphaBitch : Cripes, Funk. I forgot. I wanted to go to Evergreen when I was starting college, but it was new and not yet accredited. I spent time in Olympia. Did you ever go to Bob’s Java Jive in Tacoma?????
AdLib : AB – The thing is, I don’t want anything to happen to Scalia before Obama is re-elected. The prospect of an opening on the SCOTUS could super-energize the RW and I don’t want to have to fight that!
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….McCaskill has some smart people working for her. Her ad stream begins with…”why is BIG MONEY putting so much money into defeating her….what is in it for them?…..and then goes on to make her case.” Her second stream actually uses the ads against her, makes the money point, and then takes apart the ad. The best sign that this may be working is that a number of those ads have disappeared.
funksands : Evergreen is in Olympia, WA AB. You might be thinking of Reed College
AlphaBitch : AL: I’d do the happy dance.
AlphaBitch : KT: Believe so. I think it’s where Evergreen College is, right Sally?
AdLib : AB – I try not to hate people but Scalia is taunting me to do so. If something happened to him, I would not be any more heartbroken than when Breitbart died.
SallyT : Real difference between those places KT. You would like Portland. It has lots of culture and stuff I think you would enjoy from the little I know you. And, it is very liberal! Very green thinking, too.
Sabreen60 : KT, my husband has two cousins who live in Portland and they love it. Evidently the people are mostly sane! I remember candidate Obama speaking before about 70,000 people in Portland. That was the first time I believed he had a chance at winning.
SueInCa : Well we can share the “not liking Scalia”
AlphaBitch : CL: I think HE thinks he’s from Sicily and the Godfather. My new name for him as of yesterday is Godfarter.
choicelady : Murph. Yes!
KillgoreTrout : AB, thanks. Isn’t that where Ken Kesey lived?
AlphaBitch : Sue: Okey dokey, but I think you are only even.
choicelady : AB – I dont hate Scalia. I honest to Pete think he’s senile. His arguments are not legal, not logical, all political, and meandering. I want to know how you remove a justice who’s LOST IT!
AdLib : CL – We’ve seen big money lose against the ACA yesterday. Big money lost in many senate and governor races even in the anti-Dem 2010 elections. Money is something that has to be fought against hard but when it is behind a bad candidate, it loses in many cases.
AlphaBitch : CL: If I had a million dollars……. I still couldn’t give as much as Sheldon Addledson.
MurphTheSurf3 : CL….ah, I get it. So making sense = liberal. I guess we should be complimented but somehow I don’t think the GOTP did not mean to thrown us a kiss. Yes?
SueInCa : Me AB pick Me
SueInCa : JQ is that your name in Japanese or Chinese? My name has no spelling in Chinese weird
choicelady : AB – I used to sing along with a 10-year-old. We were an odd fan club, she and I.
AlphaBitch : Who hates Scalia more than me??
AlphaBitch : At least Huntsman had a brain.
choicelady : Murph – I said Huntsman was “too” liberal. Not that he WAS liberal. That’s all it takes in the GOP. Having good sense makes you automatically TOO LIBERAL!
AlphaBitch : KT: Eugene is nice.
SueInCa : Thanks AL
KillgoreTrout : I agree Murph, and that is comical.
AdLib : Good news Sue! COngrats!
SallyT : Hey there Sabreen!
AlphaBitch : CL: LOVE BNL!
funksands : Huntsman ran as GWBush pretended he was in 2000
KillgoreTrout : Thanks Sally. I may be moving to Oregon in the near future. It’s a toss up between Portland and Grant’s Pass. Urban or semi rural.
choicelady : KQ – I understand about CU, but CA already had the test run, and the big spenders lost BIG time. Not all that glitters is Gold. (Apologies to Bare Naked Ladies.)
funksands : Hi Sabreen, Hi Ad
MurphTheSurf3 : CL- Huntsman “liberality” was just an impression…poi nt by point he was very, very conservative, in the old GOP way…not crazy…but yes, he was wooden.
AdLib : Hey Funk!
choicelady : Hi SAbreen! Glad you’re back if only for a bit.
AlphaBitch : Sally: I caught your message; I actually lived in SEattle (Redmond) for 10 years. Spent a lot of time in Portland. It was great, but I was so pissed about W. throwing Ms. Ann out of the governor’s mansion that I moved back home to raise hell.
SallyT : Funk, I think that is true with most sisters.
KillgoreTrout : It’s literally impossible for Romney to relate to the middle class and working poor. He has no idea about such lives.
SueInCa : Thanks AB we really do love the place 1500(alnost square feet)
AdLib : CL – You make a great point! There was no “Obama” in the GOP primary, no one who was likeable and charismatic. Only one miserable hater after another. Put Romney up against someone with real charisma and likeability and Romney’s phoniness will stand out even greater in contrast.
choicelady : Murph – Huntsman was too “liberal” AND was as wooden as Mitt. Bad mix.
Sabreen60 : I’m back for a few more minutes. Hi to everyone who came on while I was gone, Sally, CL, Funk, and anyone else I missed.
KQµårk 死神 : We have so many unknowns with this being the first general election under the Citizens United ruling. While I’m sure the Obama team are visiting ever possible scenario they can think of their will still be unknown consequences of all the money being poured into the race. So for that reason I’m throwing out all of the precedents in this election.
MurphTheSurf3 : KT which is why Huntsman did not appeal to the GOTP base voter
AlphaBitch : Congrats, Sue. Couldn’t happen to a nicer SueinCA!
SallyT : KT, the weather her in portland is in the low 70’s but it isn’t raining. Suppose to on Sunday, tho
choicelady : Hey Sally! How’s the rainy northern woods?
KillgoreTrout : Murph, no doubt, but seen among the others, he looked like the only sane man on stage.
funksands : Sally: Agreeing to Disagree. They get along great, just piss each other off a lot.
SueInCa : Yep our offer was accepted today not Rockwell but nice
AdLib : Hey Sally! Wondering when you’d make it! Great to see you!
SallyT : Hello Funky! How’s your wife and her evil sister?
choicelady : Sue! You got a HOUSE??????
SueInCa : Holder was being punished for his going after voter fraud. they are trying to nuetralize him
KillgoreTrout : Greetings Sally. How’s the weather in the Great Northwest?
AdLib : CL – Agreed. I don’t think the conventional wisdom applies to Romney anymore than it did to Kerry. Personality is the trump card, no matter how much money is spent by Romney, he will always come off as an alien to most Americans whereas Obama will come off as an accomplished, genuine human being they can relate to.
MurphTheSurf3 : KT but Huntsman was every bit as conservative as any serious conservative can be….reasonable but on the far right.
choicelady : AB – that is a huge part of the issue: get off your duff and WORK. It fell apart in WI – people were exhausted. But it worked in Ohio and in the first part of the WI effort. And they got back control of the Senate which is HUGE come November when they go back in session. We have a real chance if we register people (get their ID if they need it), walk precincts, and GOTV. Couple that with GREAT messaging from Obama and the wooden cigarstore statue that is Mitt – not too worrisome. I am far more concerned about Congress and Senate – we have to do those races, too.
AlphaBitch : I know Huntsman isn’t great, but in my mind he was at least somewhat tolerable. I saw him try and speak the truth, anyway.
funksands : Hi Sally!
SueInCa : Funk thanks Huntsman is Romney’s cousin
funksands : AB, Huntsman took a job with Brookings Institute
funksands : Sue, your new place looks really nice! Congrats!
KillgoreTrout : Huntsman was the only one that didn’t seem batshit crazy!
AlphaBitch : KQ: SEriously? Newt had baggage???
AdLib : Sue – I read that Obama has already brought on an army of lawyers to confront election day monkey business by Repubs. The difference this time as opposed to 2000 and 2004 is that we now know what dirty tricks the Repubs will pull. And going after their voter suppression months ahead of time reflects that.
SueInCa : In the primary most were losers of one type or another and no one ever really took the lead.
KQµårk 死神 : AdLib let me add to your argument that Romney’s competition was easy to make negative ads about with all their baggage too.
AlphaBitch : CL: Didn’t you somewhat like Huntsman? I did. The best of a rotten lot, I thought.
choicelady : ADLib – Of all the GOP candidates in the primary races, not one of them was nice. Not one. Mean spirited, snarly, stupid, venal, and awful. Even I think Mitt was charming by comparison – and you KNOW how I feel about Mitt overall!
KQµårk 死神 : I get exactly what you are saying AdLib. It would be unprecedented for the candidate with the greatest ‘it’ factor to lose the debates. But we are in uncharted territory on so many things in politics today.
AlphaBitch : I think it’s more important to work NOW to get people “properly” registered w/ all the required BS. Can’t help the money, but I can get off my duff and do the work.
SueInCa : CL I posted my new house in OT
AdLib : KQ – The negative ads helped Romney win in the GOP primary because none of his opponents could get anywhere near him in spending, he’d beat them by 10 to 1. That won’t be the case with Obama in the swing states. I think it’s apples and oranges, using the GOP primary as a basis for the GE.
SallyT : Hey AdLib! How’s things going tonight?
choicelady : AdLib – that’s what I’m saying. Mitt has no core, no soul, no nuttin’. The more exposure he has, the less likeable he is. Kerry was wooden. Bush was a good ol’ boy. Substance matters, but so does personality. Obama has personality and a GREAT smile! Mitt – meh.
funksands : Big fan of his movies.
AlphaBitch : Yep Funk. You gots to!
funksands : Hey KT
AlphaBitch : KQ: Me too, buddy, me too.
funksands : AB, that’s the new Wes Anderson one right? I will see it.
KillgoreTrout : Hey funk!
MurphTheSurf3 : CL…your last message re. authentic likeability makes a LOT of sense.
AlphaBitch : Funk: I know which bars to prowl. I saw Moonrise Kingdom – you MUST go – everyone – features the coonskin cap AND the pink dress!!! Who knew?????
AdLib : KQ – You put your finger on the issue in debates. Kerry may have won technically but the perception to swing voters was, “Bush seems like a nice guy, I don’t relate to that Kerry guy at all.” Swing voters are superficial and as mentioned, low info voters. They vote on who they’d like to have a beer with, not who has the best detailed economic plan. Romney will have the same problem Kerry had, he doesn’t connect with people so whether the pudnuts declare him the winner or not, those who watch will connect more with Obama than the artificial Romney.
choicelady : Hi KQ!
KQµårk 死神 : Much better after yesterday AB.
SueInCa : Republicans are squared to cheat this time as well only they are so obvious about it. Last election the DNC posted attorneys at crucial polls
funksands : Hey KQ!
MurphTheSurf3 : CL…but much of the money is used to lay out and flay the opposition….ma king the issue about who you are NOT going to vote for….thus focus on Obama.
AlphaBitch : KQ – how ya doin’?
choicelady : Murph – forgot to add…Kerry was flawed. He was and is elitist, wooden, and out of touch. Obama is NOT. The persistent likeability of Obama matters, and his messaging coupled with his instant pushback on GOP ads also matters.
funksands : AB: Why? You obviously found me.
KillgoreTrout : That’s interesting AB. It was good salsa!
KQµårk 死神 : Hey CL, funk and AB.
AlphaBitch : FUNK! Read my message below searching for you…
choicelady : Murph – Money puts the candidates in the spotlight. If the candidate has fatal flaws – stupidity, cravenness, greed, and cold distance from ordinary people, the more exposure he gets (or she in the case of Whiteman and Fiorino) the more that exposure HURTS them. The quality of both the messaging AND the candidate matters.
AlphaBitch : AdLib: ‘Splain this: Obama adds are running non-stop in Texas. No Romney ads.
funksands : Howdy! Looks like a full house tonight.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….as we saw in Wi….big money also buys big organization and lots of game on the ground.
KillgoreTrout : Bush cheated.
AlphaBitch : CL: Amen. I ate lamb burgers tonight, and thought of the scene where Joshua is watching the lamb go to slaughter….the n I took another bite. (I’m Biff, remember?)
KillgoreTrout : Romney has told so many lies and changed positions more times than a porno queen, how is he going to keep all those lies straight in a high pressure environment?
KQµårk 死神 : Don’t get me wrong AdLib I don’t think Romney can come off likable either. But I’m not so sure how much that will matter. The negative ads won the primaries for Romney not his likability.
AdLib : Here’s the problem with the money issue. If Obama concentrates his spending in the swing states and buys an equal amount of what is a finite number of available ads on shows with meaningful viewership, those in swing states will see no difference in spending. Obama doesn’t have to spend lots of money in blue states or red states, just swing states. And there are only so many advertising slots on each station in a day.
MurphTheSurf3 : CL…would you say some more about your last post re. money shining sunlight on bad candidates.
choicelady : AB – it’s never a wrong time to read “Lamb”. Never.
AlphaBitch : KT: The man whose dad invented Pace lives nearby. He sold it to NJ for $2 billion (I think Campbells) and now has invested in restoring and revitalizing our city. AND he’s a Dem!
choicelady : The one advantage of CU and money is that it can and does expose a really BAD candidate to the harsh lights of his own weaknesses. We keep thinking money helps. It can also expose flaws BIG TIME!
SueInCa : A lot of indies are bush people who are embarrassed they voted for him perhaps they will be the brighter ones having been burned once
AlphaBitch : I personally – all kidding aside – think effective messaging w/ bumper stickers is good. Short, sweet, to the point. And when you are stuck in traffic, wha cha gonna do??
KillgoreTrout : Nachos without guacamole? Pace pecante sauce then!
MurphTheSurf3 : KQ…and who won…Kerry or Bush…point made.
KillgoreTrout : I don’t think we should lump all independents in one clump. I do think that some are just very cautious about political rhetoric, up until they see the candidates side by side.
SueInCa : I watched that first hand and the debate, in my opinion was a strong consideration for people AB
AlphaBitch : CL: Just thinkin’ it’s time to reread Lamb.
KQµårk 死神 : As wooden as Kerry was he still cleaned W’s clock in the debates. Even the MSM spun it that way.
AdLib : KQ – I aqree that we can’t afford to let any confidence we have in Obama limit our dedication to fighting as hard as we can for his re-election. I do just disagree with the proposition that ROmney can come off as likeable and genuine in a debate with Obama and that he will be fast enough on his feet to deal with what may be thrown at him.
choicelady : AB – an Carly Fiorino! Both those babes outspent the Dem and LOST.
AlphaBitch : Money matters, folks, but let’s not forget the ballad of Meg Whitman.
choicelady : AB – He has no way to be fluid. It’s too hard to remember what you’re saying now, and what you used to say. It’s a synapse problem.
AlphaBitch : CL EDIT: He IS A…
bito : Exactly KQ!
AlphaBitch : KT – did you say Nachos? Con guacamole?
AlphaBitch : CL; He has stutterer. (Is that a word?)
AdLib : Hey CL!
KillgoreTrout : Buenos Noches AB! Hope all is well.
choicelady : Hi everyone – how are you? Just picked up on bito saying Mitt won’t be a complete doofus. bito – that’s very kind of you, but does he have any other “speed” than doofus?
KQµårk 死神 : All I’m saying is we can’t be complacent or rely on the debates. It’s going to be a hell-of-a fight all the way to the end.
AdLib : Hey AB! Welcome!
SueInCa : Exactly KT it was funny
MurphTheSurf3 : Bito…I agree with your perspective on the debates. A debate based strategy is aimed at the educated, informed, engaged….you are correct that most of the “independents” will vote but not based on the quality of debate performance
bito : And Fox said McCain won some of the debates. Enough, but don’t expect Mitt to come across a complete doofus.
AdLib : KQ – Kerry was a weak candidate and the public saw that. Romney is a weak candidate and the public sees that, which is why he remains behind in the swing states. Sure, you can sell BS to the public in advertising campaigns but it doesn’t mean that once people actually get a taste, they’re going to like it.
AlphaBitch : AdLib: There’s a sticker: side by side photos of Obama and Mittens. Captioned: One killed bin Laden. The other kills jobs.
KillgoreTrout : Sue, I have to laugh every time I think of the debate between Obama and McCain, where McCain just started wandering around the stage, like he was suffering some sort of dementia! It was just too funny.
SueInCa : KQ I am not talking about funds, likeability and trustworthiness are worth a hell of a lot
AlphaBitch : Hola, mis gentes! Sorry I’m late but I just went to the best movie! WHERE is Funk??????? The movie had both a Davy Crockett hat AND a pink dress – why, it was Mr. & Mrs. Sands. Go see Moonrise Kingdom if you get the chance….
KQµårk 死神 : I don’t think people are paying attention for better or worse yet AdLib and the big money has not been spent.
SueInCa : I am not putting a hell of a lot into the debates but it is the nation’s chance to see them side by side who comes out looking more sincere and trustworthy?
KQµårk 死神 : McCain had matching funds and there was no Citizens United ruling.
AdLib : KQ – If that was true, why isn’t Romney ahead in the swing states already? Even without the hundreds of millions of SuperPAC money, Kerry was ahead of Bush at this point.
SueInCa : Obama and McCain nuff said
KQµårk 死神 : Face it Kerry lost the election before the debates.
KQµårk 死神 : Exactly BITO. IDK how debates are going to counter a billion dollars in negative ads by the right wing. Add the fact that CNN and Faux News are on Romney’s side as well.
AdLib : Bito – Perhaps you and KQ will be proven right. I will however bet you both $1 Planetary Dollar that Romney is ultimately harmed and not helped by the debates.
bito : I agree KQ, too many people are putting too much into the debates.
AdLib : Bito – It is true that there is a superficiality to debates and that the pundits anoint winners on sometimes the most prepared and premeditated insults. Still, in this case I would argue that the feeling viewers are left with, seeing a man of conviction against a man who comes off as plastic and unnatural, they will in the end prefer the man of conviction and deeds.
bito : Murph, they may be uninformed and disengaged until the last moment, but they vote.
KillgoreTrout : The biggest concern about the debates, for me, is how much fact checking will be done afterwords and how will our corrupted MSM report on the findings?
KQµårk 死神 : Take care Bourne
MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne…good night PL
AdLib : Bourne, nice to see you. Have a great weekend!
KQµårk 死神 : That’s my point BITO. A few well placed lines and we would be looking at President Romney.
AdLib : Murph – The bottom line with underinformed voters, indies that is, is for good or evil, if they personally like one candidate over the other. Yes, it’s superficial but if they feel better about Obama, specifics on issues aside, than they do about Romney, they will vote for Obama. Considering how cold and insincere Romney comes off, I would not expect most indies to like Romney more than Obama.
KQµårk 死神 : Surf unfortunately most independents are moderate conservatives who just can’t stomach the GOP but still vote mostly for them.
KillgoreTrout : Bourne, I’m always glad to see you on VOX! Have a great night.
bito : C’mon people, you know how debates are, they don’t get into specifics. What do you remeber best about Raygun and Carter? a bumper sticker line of ‘There yu go again’
KQµårk 死神 : ex PA Gov Ed Rendell sp? was on MSNBC tonight. He shared a story were Romney was touting Romneycare so proudly. Now what type of person scuttles their biggest accomplishment just to win office. I hope Americans find out that person is not fit to be president.
BourneID : Hey y’all. I’m going to sign off now; I’ll read the transcript in a few days when it’s published. I’ll also catch up on my new articles this week. KT, good to see you again. Hope all of you have great week. Murph, thanks for the mohito; post the recipe.
KillgoreTrout : Bito, independents, for the most part I think, are better educate and more informed that Romney’s pod people.
MurphTheSurf3 : Bito- who do you think are “the independents” I think it is a dignified word for a group that is mostly under or uninformed and disengaged until the last moment, rather than free thinking persons weighing both sides.
AdLib : Bito – True but consider what position he will have to contort into to woo indies in swing states and how he will be saying the opposite of what he said just months earlier. Obama will nail him on it.
KQµårk 死神 : For example your typical Republican will say ‘Obamacare will bankrupt the country’ but Romney specifying what it will cost puts his figures on trial. They are both lies but one is much more verifiable.
KillgoreTrout : Romney has no real substance. He’s the proverbial “hollow man!” He say he’ll do this and that, but NEVER say how he would accomplish such things.
Sabreen60 : BRB. But I’m interested in everyone’s take on Eric Holder being held in contempt.
bito : Mitt won’t be trying to appeal to you AdLib, or to anyone here nor the baggers. he will be trying to get the independents in the swing states
AdLib : And there was no intelligent person in GOP debates to dismantle Romney’s lies. It’s going to be a whole different story against Obma. And consider the stature of the two men standing on the stage together. One has killed Bin Laden, the other has killed businesses and jobs for profit.
KillgoreTrout : Bullshit only spreads just so far!
AdLib : Bito – I think it’s apples and oranges with Romney doing well in a GOP debate and pandering to indies in a debate with Obama. The fact that he’s nailed himself to opposing the Dream Act and being for self-deportation are problems that didn’t exist in the GOP debates.
MurphTheSurf3 : Watching Real Time with Jennifer Granholm to follow. Really like her.
KQµårk 死神 : Sabreen that’s my point Romney’s lies are so easy to dispute. If he just talked in right wing rhetoric like it would be another thing but he can’t.
SueInCa : Sabreen he will stutter at that point and that is my point he has no detail it is all fluff. BRB
AdLib : Romney didn’t win the primary based on the debates, in fact, the more debates he had, the more people disliked him. For a Repub base, he did better when hating on immigrants, gays and women’s rights. No way for him to win playing those cards in a debate with Obama. In fact, by then he will have etch-a-sketched towards the middle and will open himself up hugely to charges of hypocrisy and dishonesty. Obama remembers all the things Romney said in the primary, you can bet he’ll be confronting Romney with them at a debate and Romney will squirm.
KQµårk 死神 : Surf the teabagger types hate specifics. The like to hear things in generalities even when it’s GOP lies.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sue-+- sounds like a fun game….of course Mitt is playing a game that if he wins…we all lose. So drinking makes a lot of sense.
Sabreen60 : When Romney says the ACA will add trillions to the deficit and PBO states that the CBO says that the ACA will decrease the deficit by $200+ billion over the next ten years, what is Romney going to say?
KillgoreTrout : KQ, if the moderation during the primary debate are any indication, I think you are right. I think Obama will be well prepaired for such behavior though. Obama is just hundreds of times smarter and more composed than Romney ever will be.
bito : No Sabreen, It’s not. We all know that Mitt is a liar and an ass, but for some that don’t follow him closely, he will hild his own in a debates. As Murph said, if he doesn’t look like a moron, the MSM will say he did great against the Prez.
SueInCa : Ok it looks like it is two to two so everytime mitt blows it Adlib and I will take a drink. If we are on the floor mid debate you all will know we were right
MurphTheSurf3 : KQ…ah…so those lies appeal to noone…hmmm…w orth thinking about.
KQµårk 死神 : That’s my point Surf Romney’s lies are not the type of lies the base likes. The like someone who can hyperbole speak if you will.
SueInCa : OK LOOK
MurphTheSurf3 : Bito-+- just a matter of how it gets out there. The concept is to let the e-mails propogate the message rather than starting with a wide open blog, like the Planet.
KQµårk 死神 : KT I think Obama needs to say ‘Governor Romney you use to agree with me on that issue’ or something to that effect allot because the moderators will not help.
AdLib : Bito – Mitt loses it in debates when his honesty and integrity is questioned He is a very poor debater and only won by default against a band of mental dwarfs. He will not be able to sustain a long debate without looking like a phony. The fact is, the more people see of Romney, the less they like him. He is unlikeable and comes off as artificial. No escaping that.
bito : Lord Murph, a bigger blogosphere?! once things get tweeted from PPOV it goes to many many thousands. how big do you want?
MurphTheSurf3 : KQ…those lies are for his base and those he wants to draw into the base….they love the lies as they confirm their world view.
SueInCa : You all have to remember he is going up against the Black Guy and when that Black Guy gets the better of him he is going to lose it. His church still does not let Black Guys in the big church
KillgoreTrout : Bito, I think Romney will have a hard time explaining all his flip flops and outright lies. Sure, the righties will love him no matter what, but the independents may get a better idea of just how phony Romney is. IF the moderator is honest in his questioning.
MurphTheSurf3 : Bito….my thoughts exactly. Romney will be lifted on high by his faithful, by those who want him to do good because they hate Obama, by the “balanced, objective” media who are in his corner or who want a close contest to make more moolah, and by the so called pundits who will react to any performance that is not moronic as “genius.”
KQµårk 死神 : AdLib Romney’s weirdness factor really has to come out.
Sabreen60 : bito, that’s sarcasm, right? Romney is a liar. One thing about liars it’s hard for them to keep their lies straight. Also, what Romney going to say when PBO hits him over the head with facts?
AdLib : Get some rest Kes, great seeing you here tonight!
KQµårk 死神 : The amazing part of Romney’s lies to me is how he lies about easily verifiable facts like saying the ACA will add ‘trillions’ to the debt. As crazy as the rest of the GOP is they lie in hyperbole like saying ‘Obamacare will destroy freedom’. Willard just doesn’t even know how to lie like a Republican. Like he’s an alien in his own party.
SueInCa : Bito I saw him stutter many times in the Republican debates and he gets that defensive posture and loses it Bnight Kes
AdLib : KQ – You’re right to a degree, the pundits blather about expectations but Romney won’t be able to fake having substance in a long debate against an intelligent man. So even if pundits applaud Romney for not coming off as much of a douche as expected, the net impact on viewers will be, “He’s kind of a douche, isn’t he?”
KillgoreTrout : Golden slumbers kes, sounds like you earned it.
MurphTheSurf3 : AD LIB…thanks for the response….I need to check with my group but since we intend our e mails to get out into the wider blogging world I suspect the group will want me to wait a couple of days, and then post.
SueInCa : Kes I knew the whole thing was much ado about nothing. That is why it was so ridiculous to hold the vote.
bito : Why is everyone saying “I can’t wait for the debates”? Mitt is a good speaker, a good looking white man and can hold his own in debates. he will appeal to many independents.
kesmarn : Friends, I know it’s only 11 p.m. here but I think I need to get to bed a little early. Short sleep last night and a working weekend coming up. Have a wonderful weekend and stay cool. (You always are.)
AdLib : Murph – Absolutely, feel free to post it here. A while back we used to have a section called Troll Busters, which was intended to provide folks with ideal responses to RWs when they spout the memes their leaders program into them. This kind of thing is just fine to post here.
MurphTheSurf3 : AD LIB…a repost for you…Ad Lib….that group of activists I belong to has been brainstorming for weeks. This is one of our tactics. Create really well done e mails and post them widely. Sue asked me to send it her….I could actually do it as a general post here with a blanket permission to use it as a response to TP activity. What do you think.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…did you see my post/question re. a possible article from me?
kesmarn : Thanks, Sue and b’ito, I knew you would have the info.
KillgoreTrout : I love the fact that Romney is on the wrong side of history. OUCH!
bito : The DOJ has never prosecuted a house contempt charge since Raygun
AdLib : Sue – I just can’t wait for the debates. I know ROmney will be on full playback mode with many rehearsed non-answers and attacks on Obama but as his refusal to address questions and facts add up, he will indeed be exposed as the fraud he is. Can;t wait!
kesmarn : Oh b’ito, I loved that! I posted it on FB too! So funny.
Sabreen60 : Y’all I meant “THUNDER”. I swear I haven’t had anything to drink, yet!
SueInCa : DOJ will not prosecute him
AdLib : KQ – I read a bit about that, how hilarious! Romney is not only in conflict with himself from years ago, he gets into conflicts with himself from just hours earlier! And in his response to the ruling, he insisted on repeal and replace…then listed most of the ACA’s provisions as what his “replace” would be. So as I mentioned, his version would be a reheated meal Obama prepared but no one ever has to pay the bill. Ridiculous.
kesmarn : I’ve missed so much of the news cycle. What is the word on Eric Holder? If I might change the subject a bit…
bito : Better than a cartoon: «link»
SueInCa : Possibly KQ but when he loses his composure there is no covering for him and he will already have a hard on for Obama and Obama will do his scholarly thing and piss him off more – meltdown
KillgoreTrout : Please excuse the multiple posts.
SueInCa : Bourne you days are coming he he he and KT it was an accident of birth
kesmarn : Right. The cartoonists have been having a field day with this one. It’s almost too easy.
KQµårk 死神 : The only problem Sue is debates are all about expectations and spin. If Romney does half good the media will praise him.
KillgoreTrout : Sue, sure, rub it in! I really miss Cal from time to time.
BourneID : ue it’s been in the 70’s in sacramento and in teh 50’s at night. fabulous.
SueInCa : I saw that Murph. I know I would love it
AdLib : Kes – Very funny! Sally has also been finding a number of very funny cartoons about the ACA ruling, I’ve never seen so many on target cartoons, one after another!
KillgoreTrout : Sue, sure, rub it in!
KillgoreTrout : Sue, oh sure, rub it in!
MurphTheSurf3 : Sue- take a look at what I just wrote to AdLib re. your request to me.
kesmarn : AdLib, this is one time when their usual techniques — obstructionism and denial — are gonna fail.
SueInCa : Kes that is why we moved back here the perfect weather
KQµårk 死神 : Yeah Climate Change is a librul conspiracy.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….that group of activists I belong to has been brainstorming for weeks. This is one of our tactics. Create really well done e mails and post them widely. Sue asked me to send it her….I could actually do it as a general post here with a blanket permission to use it as a response to TP activity. What do you think.
SueInCa : KQ the debates will leave no doubt about his lightheaded personality
kesmarn : Sue, luckeeeeee…
AdLib : Kes – These GOP governors are just full of braggadocio and hot air. You can’t defy federal law that the SCOTUS has sanctioned. The Feds will just go into their states and set up exchanges on their own, there’s nothing these weasels can do to stop them.
SueInCa : Today it was 75 and breezy here in the SF Bay Area
KillgoreTrout : Sabreen, we had one here in central Ohio, a few hours ago. I love thunderstorms, as long as they don’t knock out power.
KQµårk 死神 : AdLib just today Romney accepted parts of the Dream Act in an interview and his campaign had to walk it back. He’s a gaffe machine as well because like every liar he can never remember the true story.
kesmarn : The rainstorms just passed through here, Sabreen, and it was 103 yesterday. Now it’s cooler. Hope your power stays on.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen….107 here in Mo. today…no rain for 14 days (and that was just a trace)….no rain in forecast for two more weeks….global warming/climate change….it’s bunk you know…ask the Senior Senator from OK (whose state has seen its cattle ranch industry move north for lack of grass)
AdLib : Murph – That’s good news. I don’t underestimate the millions the Kochs and FreedomWorks will invest in trying to whip up the Bagger crap again but the timing is all wrong now for them to be seen as anything other than the ones who jeopardized the nation’s credit rating, shutting down the government and refusing to compromise. Not this time, ain’t gonna work.
SueInCa : How about Mitt’touch tone samwich dispensing machine?
KillgoreTrout : John Stewart had a great show yesterday, exposing CNN and FOX for the RW hacks that they truly are. Also a great commentary on just how dysfunctional that some MSM outlets have become.
SueInCa : I love thunder and lightening and almost any kind of storm. Sabreen
kesmarn : And every time Mitt does a “who let the dogs out?” or a “WaWa’s” he reinforced that elitist, out of touch image. Keep it up, Mitt!
Sabreen60 : We’re in the mist of a thumber storm and the power keeps going on and off. So I might disappear for while.
SueInCa : Murph please do I am intrigued
MurphTheSurf3 : Sue- Hi….not a site….just a standard message that we send out as needed. I can post the message to you as a reply to one of your comments if you like.
AdLib : KQ – Yep, the Repubs have absolutely the worst candidate at the worst possible time. Mr. Romneycare, Mr. 1%, Mr. Car Elevator, Mr. Liar N. Hypocrite. All at a time of such great financial stress on the 99%. We couldn’t have gotten luckier.
Sabreen60 : Hi Bito!
KQµårk 死神 : Good one kes.
AdLib : Hey Bito! Can we help Rush pack his bags?
kesmarn : Good one, AdLib! I saw a cartoon today in which the scythe-carrying figure of Death was saying: “I’m bummed!” about the SCOTUS decision.
AdLib : Killgore – That’s how I see The Planet, the artist’s colony of the modern day. So many clever and creative people here who appreciate literature, art and of course politics. I’m always in awe at the community that has developed here.
Sabreen60 : Sue, that’s funny. I can drink white liquor, but not dark. And Murph – nah. I just like what I like – a bottle of Patron in the freezer when I decide a want a small one – not often, but on occasion.
BourneID : Hi Bito, Good news about Rush leaving the USA. Wasn’t he supposed to do that a few times two or three years ago? What a jackass he is. He started his career here in Sacramento and has never been different. He ned a target; his target here was a small blue collar tow called Rio Linda, which he laughed at every day. great people, schools, and every service you need is there. He has never been different
SueInCa : Hey Murph can I get a link to that site?
AdLib : Kes – From now on, people who get ridiculously gleeful over bogus information about millions of people suffering will be called, “Full of Schmidt”.
KQµårk 死神 : I love how Red States are shooting themselves in the foot by not setting up exchanges. All States will have exchanges but if the state does not set them up the Feds will.
kesmarn : Some of the crazy-governor’ s association seem to think that if they just dig in their heels and do nothing,it’ll all go away.
SueInCa : Bito he is such a big bag of hot air but it would take a major sized needle to prick him for a release
KillgoreTrout : Sabreen, I see these “rebels,” as I do someone who buys a gun and just can’t wait to shoot somebody. They’re in love with the “idea,” of armed rebellion, but would shit their pants if one actually happened.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad…suspect you are correct…..my groups have already written a statement which we are disseminating on the internet and to all of the media which basically names the reality- astroturf called into action to serve those who work against the interests of most in the TP….and encouraging everyone to spend their time becoming familiar with the reality…links supplied.
AdLib : KQ – I posted a map that was on Yahoo News, showing the states anticipated to expand Medicaid and as one would expect, it is mostly the South and Midwest that are more likely to leave their poor to suffer.
KQµårk 死神 : AdLib they played a few clips of Romney supporting the mandates and brought up his 2009 op ed suggesting the mandate again. The more he talks about it the more of a hypocrite he looks like to swing voters.
kesmarn : Hahahaha! b’ito, so Costa Rica has universal health care. That’s gonna be a deal breaker for Rushbo.
Sabreen60 : Seems some wingers are calling for revolution and rebellion. A couple of elected wingers had to walk back their talk of armed rebellion. These folks are nutz.
BourneID : Murph are you going to go to the rally? I hope youwill so you can tell us about it next week. I didn’t know you did spy work like that. I’m imressed.
AdLib : Murph – I have seen the RW heads exploding all over the place and am enjoying it. My bet is that there will be this minor resurgence of the Baggers but it will soon dissipate as they realize no one cares about them anymore except for Romney…archite ct of ROmneycare.
bito : So Rush is so mad about the big gubment ACA he is moving to Costa Rica «link»
SueInCa : Sabreen Patron is perfect for a top shelf margarita. I got really high on two margaritas at a local mexican rest when the bartender told me he had better than a top shelf marg. I swear I was sliding under the booth almost
MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen….a sophisticate!
KillgoreTrout : My pleasure AdLib! I’ve always wanted to be in a “colony,” of writers and painters and poets. The Planet just may be that place.
kesmarn : Crazy Jean Schmidt of Ohio was caught on vid screaming her silly head off when she thought ACA had been ruled unconstitutional . I would have loved to see the opposite scream when she found out she’d been misinformed.
KQµårk 死神 : With liberals lamenting the Medicaid part of the ruling I was surprised that no one mentioned that Medicaid was always an optional program for states. So since congress made the expansion mandatory if the states accepted Medicaid at all I could at least see the logic of why that was struck down.
MurphTheSurf3 : AD LIB…seen the crazy, frantic, angry RW reaction to all of this. I am on a Missouri Tea Party mailing list (under an alias) and there is a call for a rally on Sunday in five locations to organize to resist the SOCIALIST TAKEOVER OF OUR MEDICAL CARE…..here we go again.
KillgoreTrout : I do think that Roberts was thinking his decision may save the SC from complete ridicule and outrage.
SueInCa : The absolute best part was watching the right wing heads popping
AdLib : Hey Sabreen!
Sabreen60 : Hey all. Murph I would looovvve a Mojito. I like mine a little sweet. Or if you have some Patron I’ll take that straight up with a little salt and lime.
AdLib : KT – Thanks for the kind words!
SueInCa : Lucky for us we were watching MSNBC
KillgoreTrout : Sue, it definitely was!
SueInCa : Thanks Kt if that was directed my way too
AdLib : My prediction was that the mandate would be struck down but they wouldn’t dare kill the whole thing. Man, was I wrong, one vote away from a confirmation of a RW coup over the other two branches.
KillgoreTrout : Hey Sabreen, Happy Obamacare day!
SueInCa : No BFF part of the Reich get it
kesmarn : Hey, Sabreen! Wasn’t that “jumping the gun” thing hilarious? They looked ridiculous.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen….hey, hey, hey…care for a Mojito. I am pouring. The drink of the night.
AdLib : KQ – The way I see it, nothing changed, Kennedy has been a RW ideologue all the time but it was just confirmed. He did side with the Bush anointment and Citizens United. Just because he occasionally likes to look independently minded and divert from lockstep occasionally, never meant he was ever a moderate. After reading the dissent he signed on, he definitely never was one.
SueInCa : Murph I ask the same question all the time. Reich is brilliant and he does not seem like a yes man Hey Sabreen
kesmarn : BFF, is Reich an insider, trading info?
Sabreen60 : Hi Everyone. Hope all is well. I’m so glad I had on Stephanie Miller and go the right info from Jacki Schechner. TeaNN and FOX were wrong as usual.
KillgoreTrout : Oh, and the same congrats to AdLib on his article. I think you guys are turning into very good writers! (if you weren’t already) Articles like yours make me proud to be a Planeteer!
SueInCa : BFF He is an agent of the Robert Reich and he knows everything
MurphTheSurf3 : Kes…why isn’t Reich part of the Obama brain trust….he is far more correct than in error.
KQµårk 死神 : Ironically KT this is the kind of Justice Roberts promised to be in his hearings with showing judicial restraint. But this is the first time he really showed it.
SueInCa : KT I think that episode at the SOTU where he shook his head at Obama may have had an impact on Roberts. Perhaps he realized he was heading far right or perhaps he knows CU is wrong
AdLib : CNN – Crippled News Network
kesmarn : Robert Reich predicted it exactly right –even to the Roberts thing. I have no idea how he knew.
SueInCa : Me too BFF
KillgoreTrout : John Roberts, of ALL people. I didn’t see that coming!
AdLib : Sue – You know how satisfying it is to share something so satisfying as that Moyers episode, it was truly my pleasure but you wrote a wonderful post inspired by it.
kesmarn : Typically, I was totally prepared to hear that they had ruled against ACA, so it was a major happy-shock to find I was wrong.
KillgoreTrout : KQ, maybe Kennedy learned a big, big lesson yesterday!
KQµårk 死神 : I think the biggest think lost with the SCOTUS decisions of late is how Kennedy is no longer a swing vote but a far right ideologue.
SueInCa : Bourne we just got an offer accepted today. I posted a link to the pics of the house/condo in OT
AdLib : Bourne – I got up early like it was Xmas morning yesterday, it was a big day and for some reason, I felt like it would be a good present. I guess we’ve been good this year.
MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne- Ad Lib’s terrific article titled: Supreme Court Upholds Affordable Care Act…and nearly 300 comments on it- with Ad Lib responding again, and again and again…..WooooH ooooo!
SueInCa : “A further reading shows….” famous last words TeaNN
KillgoreTrout : Bourne, was that just a shining example of how deterioted our news media has become?
BourneID : Sue, as I was about to say before once hitting the wrong key, cutting myself off, glad to see you here and areyou still for a house or purchased yet?
SueInCa : KQ you are so correct. I never watch either one. Hey Bourne
kesmarn : CNN and especially FOX were so darned smug when they though the ruling had gone their way. The moment of realization must have been a sight to behold.
BourneID : Hi Sue
MurphTheSurf3 : I woke up early yesterday to work in my garden and then tuned in Bill Press from Current. Bill was upbeat. A glance at Morning Joe and his usual fake-balancing act (while rooting for all things Obama negative) and went to CNN. I actually saw the CNN first report- ACA overturned….bu t was reading a running SCOTUSblog and knew they were wrong. OH HAPPY DAY…..
BourneID : Hey Murph – did I miss an article? God I’m so far behind.
SueInCa : KT the article almost wrote itself
SueInCa : Thanks Adlib deserves credit for steering me to the show. It was one of Moyers best
KQµårk 死神 : Bourne CNN and Faux News getting it wrong at first was indeed icing on the cake. They showed they are nothing but shills for the right and corporations.
AdLib : Murph – Thanks for the kind props. And just to let you know, I will be keeping my mouth open when you pour it!
KillgoreTrout : Hey Sue. Congratulations on your recent article. Masterfully done and spot on.
SueInCa : Bourne it is not CNN anymore it is TeaNN
BourneID : Hi KT I’ve missed you. Hey AdLib, I don’t think anything, even the moon land, made me happier than the announcement yesterday about the ACA – and I completed loved watching Fox and CNN dump whatever dignity they had left
KillgoreTrout : Hey Murph! Happy Obamacare indeed! June 28 is now a date in American history! And the brainless righties are on the wrong side of it!
SueInCa : Naw I am drinking a Top Shelf Margarita I have much to celebrate tonite
kesmarn : It’s been a while, BFF.Between work and travelling to WI! I miss y’all,too.
AdLib : Hey Sue! And a happy ACA and mojito to you!
SueInCa : BFF! You are here this week miss you when you are not
MurphTheSurf3 : BOURNE….I have one of those coolers you see on the sidelines at football games….what we do not drink I plan to dump on ADLIB at the end of the night by way of congrats for his WINNING article about the SCOTUS decision yesterday.
kesmarn : Hey, BFF!
SueInCa : Yes I am here I was just reading some of the comments. Hello everyone and Happy ACA week
AdLib : Hey Murph! Pass me a tall mojito if you please, I’m here to celebrate!
KQµårk 死神 : Cheers KT.
MurphTheSurf3 : Hello AdLib, BourneID, kesmarn, KillgoreTrout, KQµårk 死神, MurphTheSurf3, SallyT, SueInCa HAPPY OBAMACARE!
KQµårk 死神 : Chris Hayes had a great point tonight. Every time the GOP is not talking about the economy it’s good for Obama. The GOP is so distracted with their own hate machine.
kesmarn : Rush was hysterical. I have such schadenfreude over the thought of that guy having to buy coverage (he never has) or pay the fine.
AdLib : Bourne – Sounds delicious. I had the same in the form of the SCOTUS ruling yesterday and I’m still enjoying it.
BourneID : He Murph that sounds great. Did you make enough for all of us?
KillgoreTrout : Good evening Bourne and KQ! Glad you could make it.
AdLib : KQ!!! Sure has been one hell of an historic week!!!
AdLib : Hey Bourne!!!
KQµårk 死神 : AdLib it’s going to be fun to see Romney rail against Obamneycare with all the video of him touting the mandates etc…
AdLib : Killgore – And the RW heads continue to explode today. It’s amusing the hell out of me, they’re proving to the nation that they’re lunatics just before an election! Love it!
KillgoreTrout : I like that phrase AdLib…”snarl word!” That is perfect!
kesmarn : Yes, AdLib and KT, his amazing sense of humor is much missed. But the eagles have to leave the nest.
MurphTheSurf3 : Mojitos for one and all….ummmmm… ..Just in case you are not familiar with this wonderful drink….traditi onally, a mojito is a cocktail that consists of five ingredients: white rum, sugar (traditionally sugar cane juice), lime juice, sparkling water and mint. Celebrating the SCOTUS miracle! HEY THERE ALL!
KillgoreTrout : kes, it’s always hard when a loved one goes away. But like you said, it for a great reason.
KQµårk 死神 : So much for the MSM group think again. They don’t know shite.
AdLib : Kes – Congrats on your son! It can’t be easy seeing them go though, have a few friends going through that this summer as well.
kesmarn : Hey,Bourne!
kesmarn : KQ! That it was!
KQµårk 死神 : Hey folks. What a week huh?
BourneID : Hi everyone. I would have signed in sooner but I had to finish the most incredible “Oh my God” ice cream -darkest chocolate with cruncy chocolate covered almonds and fudge swirls in it. It’s as close to sin as I get thsse days. And, Happy Obamacare Day peple. We need to nam June 28 a national holiday. What an incredible surprise and pleasure it was to watch the squirming.
KillgoreTrout : I was so pleasantly surprised yesterday when I turned on my computer. The though of right wing heads exploding across the country gave me great delight.
AdLib : What’s kind of funny is that “Obamacare” has been used as a snarl word by the RW but as we move forward from this ruling and more and more people embrace it, it will become a positive phrase and the more the RW invokes it expecting a negative response, the more surprised they’ll be.
kesmarn : Hey KT and AdLib, I’ll join you in that low spot, KT. Got the empty nest thing going now that the son is off to Madison, WI. He’s doing great, though, so I’m happy for him.
AdLib : Hey Kes! You bet he does and in a big way!
KillgoreTrout : Hey kes, how is our angel of mercy this evening?
AdLib : Killgore – I fully understand. That’s what friends are for, as the song goes.
kesmarn : Obama does care, friends.
KillgoreTrout : AdLib, kinda of in a low spot on the ups and downs scale, but you and others here have kind of put an end to that. I get down from time to time, but that’s par for the course with me. I hope you are doing well.
AdLib : You bet! Hey Killgore, how are you this evening?
KillgoreTrout : Can I say Hi to Obama? Better yet, congratulations?
AdLib : Don’t forget to say “Obamacare” when you arrive…or “hi”.
AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. See you then!