• AdLib : Bito, just skimmed that site, it’s a wacko nobody. Sure, let’s take our marching orders from this guy, his BS seems nasty!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Bito….your last link….what a well crafted, nice looking, den of lies.

  • bito : G’night all

  • AdLib : Cheers Murph! Have a great weekend!

  • bito : At #fullrepeal it seems that their go to reference is «link» I wonder who is behind this site? Mitt?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : On this note…having celebrated the ACA victory and having bashed Sketch with a little contempt for Issa and his truth adverse gang…..I think it is time to toddle off to bed….a happy mojito snooze is pending……Che ers!

  • AdLib : Well, looks like it’s that time, to close the Vox Pop bar. Thanks to Murph for the delicious mojitos! Bito, great to see you on Vox tonight! Take care all and thanks for another invigorating and enlightening chat!

  • bito : Nite C’Lady, take care, sorry about your Ice box.

  • AdLib : Thanks CL, get that fridge back to work! I too am still processing my excitement about the ACA victory, it is so huge! Have a great weekend and see you soon!

  • AdLib : CL – I always look for subtext to figure out people. What the cloaking of Lady Justice represented was a religious extremist whose regard for institutional norms was non-existent. He was oblivious to other ways of thinking and other views. I’m a big Sherlock Holmes fan and deductive reasoning always appeals to me.

  • choicelady : OK all – I’m heading out, too. Our refrigerator just dies its second death in 6 months. Have to go re-ice til we find out if it’s fixable or we need a new one. Then off to bed since I woke up thinking about ACA at 4 am and never went back to sleep. Have a GREAT weekend, hope those with rain get sun, and those with heat get relief. Be well – see you maybe next week?

  • AdLib : Murph – Thanks for these details. This shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that this was solely a political witch hunt and Issa is as crooked as they come. When this all comes out, and Holder should be aggressive about getting the truth out there, Issa will have lost all credibility and be exposed as the slimeball he is.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Night Sabreen….

  • choicelady : AdLib – KNOWING that about Ashcroft in a way made the Eagle song and the nudie coverup less awful. I was already creeped out!

  • AdLib : Night Sabreen! Take care!

  • bito : Can I say it this time Sabreen? Good night see you on twitter.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Report: Former ATF head blamed aides for not informing him of Fast and Furious By Meghashyam Mali – 12/25/11 12:13 PM ET Tweet Kenneth Melson, then-head of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), blasted subordinates in a deposition taken in July claiming they failed to inform him of a controversial gun-tracking program that may have led to the death of a Border Patrol agent. «link» AND GUESS WHAT…ISSA DID NOT ENTER THE DEPOSITION INTO THE RECORD OR CALL HIM…Holder knew nothing because he knew nothing….his basic point.

  • AdLib : CL – I didn’t know all of that about Ashcroft at the time but his severe RW religiousness was creepy. Hearing him sing “Let the Eagle Fly” is like witnessing a religious zealot in mid-frenzy. And his covering up Lady Justice was really scary, a Taliban was in charge of our nation’s justice system. Now I learn he was a friend to the Klan! What a POS.

  • choicelady : ‘Night funk! ‘Night Sabreen! I will look for you on Twitter!

  • choicelady : Sabreen – no, Issa has never been convicted of anything. Got off every time. Holder could not turn over any docs pertaining to ONGOING investigations. And Issa freaking well KNOWS that. He’s despicable, is Issa.

  • Sabreen60 : Night Funk. I’m right behind you. I’ll see some of you on the Twitter and hope to all of you next week.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL….Ashcroft’ s memory is reviled in Mo. among thinking people….so the 10 of us really don’t have any respect for him or what he did…..well, maybe 12.

  • AdLib : Sabreen – Add to that Issa has refused to have Bush era AGs and DoJ people testify about the original FFs and wouldn’t allow any testimony from anyone who contradicted his trumped up charges. It was a fraudulent endeavor and he looks slimier in its aftermath.

  • choicelady : bito – I’m spot on with you. Better a Blue Dog than a Bagger any day of the week. If this vote was well thought out as a way of retaining the seat, then strategically it’s not a bad idea. If the vote means nothing but it saves you, the incumbent, go for it. I’m also that pragmatic. Blue Dogs have voted well – Baggers NEVER do.

  • choicelady : AdLib – Ashcroft is one of the most corrupt people EVER. When he was Governor in MO, he allowed the KKK to sell their stuff on state property even though NO one else was permitted to do so. He is simply the MOST unprincipled man maybe EVER. He’s Assembly of God, let the Army of God get away with murder – literally – and was Attorney General so we dubbed him the AOGAOGAG. Still fits.

  • AdLib : Bito – Good point, I know that in politics, standing on principle one day can mean having a Bagger standing in your place the next. Still, one has to consider the issue of corruption in our democracy when our representatives don’t vote honestly but in order to help assure re-election.

  • bito : Night funk, keep in touch with yourself

  • Sabreen60 : Issa is a thug and if I’m not mistaken a convicted felon. The fact that he could investigate anyone is a joke. What really pissed me off was that Holder had turned over 7600 documents, appeared 11 times and was negotiating to turn over more documents. Also, Holder couldn’t provide certain docs Issa wanted. I don’t know how the majority of the public viewed this, but they may believe Holder is hiding something.

  • choicelady : Good night, funk! Go forth and get light tomorrow! You ALL will be better for it!

  • AdLib : Great chatting with you too, Funk. Have yourself a great weekend!

  • bito : Careful AdLib, there are many “bluedogs” that vote with leadership 85% of the time, including important ones. The Holder vote was a non vote but a yes vote for some to retain their seats. I would much rather have a blue dog than a teabagger

  • AdLib : Murph – Working with Repubs who feel helpless but to be minions of the baggers has got to be deteriorating on one’s self respect. Who wants to work for a toadie?

  • funksands : Folks, I gotta run. Great seeing all of you tonight. Please have a good weekend.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….and, I suspect, your understanding is at the root of my friend’s decision. He is not a hypocritical person. We disagree on most things but he has always been a straight shooter…but in his current setting, he cannot be.

  • SallyT : Sabreen, there is a good article on Mother Jones about this and the Fortune article that shows that the government wasn’t walking guns.

  • AdLib : CL – When your top law enforcement guy spends time covering up Lady Justice because she has breasts, literally covering up justice, what other clues does one need?

  • AdLib : Murph – That is an instructive tale on the destruction of the GOP. So the choice now is between a non-bagger who votes identically to baggers but only to go through the motions, and a bagger who votes the same way because he’s a true believer. How can these people live with themselves. He may think he is better than a bagger but he is more unprincipled because he’s voting against his beliefs while a Bagger is at least being true to his insane self.

  • Sabreen60 : Issa said he had no info that the WH was part of any coverup. He said he had no knowledge that Holder was part of any coverup. WTF?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Sabreen- I saw two Dems who did not vote for the contempt citation but who said they understood why they were doing it…the nature of their districts….par ty leadership gave them the go ahead…no pressure since holding the seat is the ultimate good.

  • choicelady : Murph – I sort of get your congressman’s actions, but even more I get why your friend is leaving.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…your LEO and Ashcroft contributions fill in a lot of blanks for me. Thanks.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I don’t necessarily subscribe to the “GOP created 9/11” conspiracy theory, but they sure botched the possibility of STOPPING it.

  • Sabreen60 : What about the 17 Dems who voted for contempt? How are they going to justify their vote?

  • bito : Sabreen, no there aren’t that many! :lol: actually they went up to Phoenix to do the straw buys. Not as much in Tucson

  • AdLib : Sabreen – Perhaps we can see the strategy of the NRA and Issa floating the gun control conspiracy theory about FF and Obama. They know that reasonable people who learn about what happened will want more controls on gun purchases so they did a first strike by howling about the conspiracy. That way, if Obama or Dems even bring it up, they’ll say, “Aha! What did we tell you?!”

  • SallyT : Yes, Sabreen, they are called straw sales and there are like 750 gun shops.

  • choicelady : AdLib – I got caught tangentially in the changes of Ashcroft’s reorganization of law enforcement. During a federal murder investigation it was a model of multi-jurisdicti onal cooperation until Ashcroft ordered the FBI to distance the agents and keep mum. That was Feb. 2001. He ruined – destroyed – inter-department al and even INTRA departmental cooperation. When the woman FBI agent in Minneapolis reported the suspicious air training of Muslims, she was told to shut up. That was critical info that never reached anyone who might have acted on it before 9/11. Ashcroft is now chief ethics leader for Xe – Blackwater. Figures.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Re. the Contempt Vote….I got a chance to speak with “my” Congressman’s legislative director at his office yesterday. I know the guy and he, and his boss, are old time GOP. They keep their heads down. He told me that his boss was going to vote for the contempt citation because it means nothing and keeps him out of trouble. He suggested that better his boss than the Tea Partier waiting in the wings who is a true believer….I told the guy that since his boss is doing nothing for the district what difference does it make…..I got a lot of silence and then this statement….”y eah, well this is why I am throwing in the towel….”

  • Sabreen60 : If I understand correctly there are a gazillion gun shops along the border. Most don’t do background checks. Someone can buy a gazillion guns and sell them to whomever. So if this is true, how will anyone be able to control the guns going across the border? Are these sales known as “straw” sales?