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AdLib On October - 11 - 2011

Well, I know you’re waiting with bated breath to watch tonight’s economics-only debate between the GOP candidates for President.

For those who will be watching, please join us here for a live blog on the debate which starts at 5:00pm PDT/8:00 pm EDT.

For those who won’t be able to watch, here’s a pre-broadcast summary of the entire evening:

“Cut taxes and regulations.”

Though we’re not likely to hear any meaningful details because the GOP has no plans or desire to increase employment, there should be some interesting drama as Romney has retaken the lead and will be the main target of attacks.

And Herman Cain will count to 9, which should be a real nail biter.

You can watch it online here:


Written by AdLib

My motto is, "It is better to have blogged and lost hours of your day, than never to have blogged at all."

192 Responses so far.

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  1. bito says:

    The Bloomberg GOP debate in 100 seconds

    Can you say “repeal?”


  2. MurphTheSurf3 says:


    As a 3rd Tier, out of nowhere, charismati­c candidate he was interestin­g but now we learn his high powered economic adviser is a small town Wells Fargo personal finance adviser and that all he really knows about his own 9-9-9 Plan is that it WILL WORK (but not why).

    Ron Paul ripped him for his time with the Kansas City Federal Reserve, his opposition to auditing the Fed, and for praising former Fed Chair Alan Greenspan. Rick Santorum said Cain’s “9-9-9” plan would “give the federal government­, Nancy Pelosi, a new pipeline, a 9 percent sales tax for consumers to get hammered by the federal government­.”


    Despite pre-debate promises from Team Perry that their candidate would be well-reste­d and ready to rock, Perry did not deliver…­AGAIN.. His answers were still confusing jumbles, lacked specfics and in followups he got lost. His energy level fell off as the debate went on. AND Perry does not know how to make (or select if others made it up) a good strategic questions for an opponent. Romney took Perry’s Massachuse­tts Health Care question and turned it into a referendum on how poor Texas Health Care is.

    When it came time for the candidates to ask each other a question near the middle of the debate, Romney ignored Cain and Perry and tossed her a very soft ball. “Michelle, dear, darling of the TP, how would you help Americans make ends meet?” Cue her stump speech. AND IF THE TP DON’T LIKE HIM ANY BETTER FOR THAT, HE MIGHT HELP KEEP HER IN THE GAME LONG ENOUGH TO SPLIT THE TP VOTE BETWEEN HERSELF AND PERRY IN A COUPLE OF KEY STATES.

    4. TARP AND THE STIMULUS ARE BACK (CAUSE KEY GOPers BACKED/USE­D THEM) Remember TARP, the bailout plan that is the thing that goes bump in the night for tea partiers? Turns out the two men at the top of the GOP field (Romney and Cain) were for it. Cain and Romney had the unenviable job of laying out their reasoning for publicly backing the program that is pure poison to a large part of their base. Both men basically said it was a good idea badly managed. Bachmann and Perry both got flak for their use of TARP money.

    5. NEWT WILL SAY ANYTHING JUST TO BE NOTICED He attacks debate hosts. He dismisses his fellow candidates as light weights, though he says any of them would be better than Obama. On Tuesday, he turned his guns on his former colleagues in Congress, calling for the imprisonme­nt of Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA) and ex-Sen. Chris Dodd (D-CT).

    with thanks for the inspiration to….. http://201­2.talkingp­ointsmemo.­com/2011/1­0/the-five­-take-home­-lessons-f­rom-the-ne­w-hampshir­e-economic­s-debate.p­hp”

  3. http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/night-9-9-9-plan-022011966.html

    Bachman: “You turn the 9-9-9 plan upside down, and the devil’s in the details,” referring to the number “666”--the mark of the beast described in Revelation.”

    Oh crap, I made that same joke yesterday! I hope I’m not thinking like Bachman these days. I’d like to think she stole that joke.

  4. Kalima says:

    Michael Tomasky gives his take on last night’s GOP debate/debacle.


    The Race for the Worst


  5. MurphTheSurf3 says:


    MYSTERY SOLVED: Who is the Mystery Man Economist Advising Cain

    Rich Lowrie. First….n­ot an economist. He has a master’s degree. He is a financial adviser from Cleveland Ohio. He is on the board of the American Conservati­ve Union. Officially­- Managing Director-I­nvestments at Lowrie/Car­ney/String­/Smith Wealth Management Group of Wells Fargo. No wonder he loves 9-9-9.

    SOOOOOO…­..not very impressive­.

    And Cain is misreprese­nting him and his credential­s.

    My next hunt: what company did the study on the 999 plan and pronounced it a great idea?

  6. foodchain says:

    I know we are doing this, and that this is an Off Topic, but the attempted assassination --2two asses in one word is already remarkable--of a Saudi embassardor s a big thing for US policy, for the middle east posturing. Maybe more than a bunch of lying,thieving GOPS.

  7. bito says:

    I wish I would have read this before the debate, it does put a new light on Mitt’s answers.

    Does Mitt Romney Have Something To Hide?

    Part of Romney’s problem in opposing the Buffett rule is that it likely applies to him. An analysis of publicly available data by Citizens for Tax Justice found that Romney’s tax rate is likely 14 percent, far below the statutory rate for someone who earns as much as he does…..

    The financial disclosure forms Romney filed during his 2008 presidential run showed the former Massachusetts governor was worth as much $250 million at the time. But Romney has never released any tax returns — neither during his campaigns for president and Senate nor during his time as governor — and would not commit to doing so this time around.


    • AdLib says:

      The way to smoke out critters like Romney is run with this estimate and insist he prove otherwise with his tax returns or this will be assumed correct.

      • bito says:

        Ah, the mind of a defense attorney, Adlib, exploit doubt. :-)

        Cain can pull off the “I was born a po’ black black boy” honestly, he was, Mitt was born a “po’ rich child,” a son of a president of an auto company, he can’t--exploitable.

        I am hung up on the the actual “job creation” numbers from both Romney and Cain when they were in the private sector and able to “create jobs.” I feel both of them are very vulnerable on that point.

        Hmmm, I’m concerned and thinking about what will be a very tough general election.

        • AdLib says:

          I expect it to be a tough election but I don’t think it’s impossible that Obama may gain a steady lead once people really take a look at Romney and the Baggers’ agenda which he will represent.

          The OWS movement may make a difference in that as well.

          We certainly would be foolish to count on that but I do see that as a possibility, that Romney or Perry may never command a majority in polls once they’re head to head with Obama.

  8. bito says:

    Did I miss it, but did this attack ad by the Perry campaign come up in the debate? I’m sure Perry couldn’t articulate it, but….

    • AdLib says:

      Perry’s got big problems, he’s been shown up as all hat and no cattle (had to do it to the Texan!) and somehow has to survive long enough to be a contender in the Southern primaries where Romney is hated.

      Cain doesn’t have the money to sustain past the first four primaries, none of which he has a prayer of winning whereas Perry has a big war chest behind him.

      So the strategy here is, Perry has to at the very least outlast Cain which means make it to February 2012 without falling into the single digits. With Cain out, Perry gains back most of those Baggers because as much as they’re soured on Perry, they hate Romney.

      Then Perry would indeed have a real shot at the nom as the anti-Romney candidate.

      I think Perry will survive that long though his surprisingly weak skills could knock him down so far, a comeback would be less likely.

      On the other hand, remember that McCain was out of the running for some time and surged back after Repubs decided they just couldn’t vote for Romney. History could indeed repeat itself again.

      If Romney does win, running as “an outsider”, I hope Dems and Obama hammer him on spending the last ten years being a politician and running for office.

      Yep, he’s an outsider like us, an unemployed person like us, a middle class person like us…who the hell is that clueless?

      • bito says:

        My thoughts ride on a few things. Who does Rove and the money people want and will they dump money into anyone one in the primary they are against? I don’t think they will accept Cain as their nominee and Romney is their best bet for their “Yes Man” and Perry as their second best. Does anyone really like Romney? Who can? The baggers/primary voters dislike him immensely, but the money people do and find him malleable because he is.
        Can Romney sneak by with pluralities in enough primaries ( remember in the GOP, it’s winner take all.)

        Who is “CrossRoads” backing, there lies the answer and with “Citizens United” we may never know.
        Many thoughts, many questions.

        I will end it it with this chuckle:

        drgrist David Roberts
        Why else did Paul Revere carry a flashlight through the Alamo if not to fight off the tyranny of air pollution rules? #perryhistory

        • AdLib says:

          Actually, the GOP changed its primaries so that they’re not all winner take all now.

          Rove has to be backing Romney, I know he hates Perry and knows Cain can’t win.

          Romney is the most likely nom at this point but it is way too early to hand it to him. Remember, at this point in 2007 it was a done deal that Giuliani would be the nom. And Hillary was a lock for the Dem nom.

          Though Romney may look like the default winner and the GOP will have to hold their nose to vote for him…which should depress turnout and enthusiasm for the GOP…don’t count out Perry hanging in there long enough to sweep the South then have the Big Mo on his side.

          Perry’s turned out to be a drastically weaker candidate than I thought he would be (Texas Repubs obviously aren’t very demanding) so his hanging in until the Southern primaries is still going to be a challenge. He did get $15 mil or so in contributions so that could mean he’ll have enough cash to last.

  9. MurphTheSurf3 says:


    1) Romney: Please ignore that my job experience is killing them; my RomneyCare was the basis for ObamaCare; I hated TARP unless we really need it; despite being a near-billionaire I am one with the middle class.

    2) Cain: 999. A well developed and research plan…except he won’t tell you who did the research and how it was developed….he has a panel…but their identity is secret. Shhhhhh. Oh, by the way, Bloomberg’s financiers and economists are incorrect but his mystery men are not.

    3) Gingrich: Put Dodd and Frank in jail. I wonder if Gingrich should have gone to jail when he voted down Glass Stengall and Wall Street Deregulation.

    4) Perry: DRILL….DRILL…..DRILL….DRILL…..please don’t ask me any hard questions cause I really don’t know much about anything. He wants to make the U.S. like Texas….in the bottom 5 in category after category. Oh….and government should not spend money in creating business unless it is the state government and then it is ok. Like the Texas Enterprise Fund.

    5) Santorum: Bring back the Nuclear Family. Leave it to Beaver for the Model First Family. Mythology as history and ecoomics.

    6) Bachmann: I had 23 Foster Kids (none of whom has endorse me, drat!). Oh, and I was a tax attorney working for the IRS that was in charge in raking in your tax dollars (oh, never mind).

    7) Gingrich: Lots of words, lots more words….nothing much else.

    8) Ron Paul: Consistent, honest, direct, and clear. I do not regard a lot of his thinking as good for most people but he is a straightforward libertarian and does not hide it.

    Liked the format and the audience tonight.

    • Emerald1943 says:

      Murph, spot on!

      At least we can give Ron Paul a little credit for consistency..he’s been preaching the very same stuff for years!

      But what? No Huntsman? IMO, the repubs really missed the boat. If there is one person in that bunch of fruitcakes that could genuinely hold his own in a debate against the President, I believe Huntsman is it. I know…he’s not fanatical enough, and he also wears magic underwear! Certainly those are good reasons not to nominate him! :-)

    • AdLib says:

      Nice summary, Murph and I agree that the format and audience was better than previous debates.

      Little substance though and grandiose representations of themselves and their plans to solve the economy…really boiled down once again to tax cuts and killing regulations.

      These are not jobs plans, they are corporate profit increase plans and the two aren’t interchangeable. Corporations are posting record profits now and jobs are scarce. There is no connection.

      I think Perry continues his downward slide, Cain maintains and Mitt is stuck where he’s been. His slimy inauthenticity just can’t be washed off, it’s part of him.

      • MurphTheSurf3 says:

        Perry just needs to hang on to the Southern Primaries where he will be a hometown, Southern Baptist, real conservative, hero and Romney will be a closet-liberal, pagan LDS, villain. Cain is there to blunt both swords.

        I am beginning to think that the GOP insiders have decided to focus on Congress…and so they are offering up some human sacrifices to fall on their swords awaiting the right time to toss in some real heavy weights (Christie, Jeb Bush)

        • bito says:

          Murph, While I disagree about some “heavyweight” coming into the GOP primaries as their final salvation ,for many reasons including money, campaign organization in multiple states and a rare conflicted nominating convention, I do strongly agree with you about the control of Congress. The general for the executive will be hard, but the R’s may see it as a throw-away, PBO will win, they want Congress, especially the Senate! “The house proposes the Senate disposes” and if Mitch only allows Republican House bills to be heard, look out.

          • Emerald1943 says:

            Bito, the point about Congress is right! I saw something a few days ago that indicated that they are intent on taking the Senate and holding the House and that this would be their main focus in their fund-raising. They have seen that they can hold the country hostage, even when they don’t have a majority!

            This scares me almost as much as the Presidency. At least, PBO will still have that veto pen!

          • MurphTheSurf3 says:

            Well then, here’s to our future, which is right now.

          • MurphTheSurf3 says:

            My reference to the Heavies was to a future election, not this one.

            Agree with the rest of your analysis.

        • AdLib says:

          Cain won’t last financially much past January, he won’t win any primaries and his funding will get used up. With Cain out, Perry’s share of the vote will go up and Romney will face a tough fight as Perry takes the South.

          I’d disagree on the tossing in of new candidates, organizationally and financially, getting on the ballot in state primaries, there really isn’t a viable way to jump in much later than this month.

          The first round of primaries begin in early January, not sure how soon one must work to get on a ballot but I’d imagine December will be too late.

          Then Romney is off to the races in NH, who knows about the other primaries but the race will begin to be cemented then and in the following month.

          I agree about Rove and The Kochs putting a strong focus on Congress and The Senate. I think they may be in for a surprise, with approval for Congress at 14% or so, all the millions they spend is unlikely to change that and I expect many Baggers to be on unemployment…they refuse to fund.

          • MurphTheSurf3 says:

            Jeb needs four more years to fumigate the national memory. Might work. He is a competent guy….the bright brother.

            I do not think the Big Boy from NJ will wear as well. He is a bully by nature and they do not play well with others.

            After his service to the state as a Freeholder, his own party ran an opponent against him who won. Like I said, he does not wear well.

            I am working broadly for all Dems at all levels. We need a Tsunami to wash the stables clean of the GOP stink.

            • Emerald1943 says:

              Adlib, I would agree with your analysis…except for the “Stay-Puft Man”. I thought he was the Michelin Man! :-)

              Things in this country have gotten so bad for many people that I don’t know if they will forget who put us into this mess. We, as Dems, need to keep continually reminding them every day from now until 2016!

              I was glad to see the Democrats in the Senate hold it together yesterday on the AJA. That was a vote of confidence for the President, IMO. However, even though we had the majority, we still lost! What on earth are we going to do to fix this?? Just think…if Harry Reid had done something about the filibuster rule in January, we would not be losing every single vote! At least, the OWS protests have focused the attention of the people on what the Congress is NOT doing!

            • AdLib says:

              Still, will America want to say President Bush again? They still blame GW far more than Obama for the economy, I don’t know that they’ll forget in 4 years. Hope not!

              I agree on The Stay-Puft Man, he’ll be to 2016 what Giuliani is to 2012. There’s a time when you have momentum and attention and 4 years later, it’s not going to be the same.

              As you say, even if he runs, his style of being rude and nasty may excite Baggers but Indies are turned off and Dems sure won’t cross over for that piece of work.

              And another unpredictable factor…if Obama is re-elected with a Dem Congress and in contrast to the Bagger years, they get a lot done and the public is pleased, there won’t be much interest in Republicans.

              It’s been so long since Americans liked who they elected, we forget what that’s like but with the Baggers in The House setting the bar so low, a Dem Congress with Obama could be very appreciated.

          • MurphTheSurf3 says:

            My reference to the tossing in of new cabinets was not for this cycle…later means 4 years.

            The rest….we are on the same page.

            • AdLib says:

              Gotcha! 2016 is a long time from now politically but would the public pine for another Bush then?

              And will Christie’s new-car smell still be as fresh 4 years from now?

              I do think we need to work as hard as we can to re-elect Obama and in the end, I think we’ll succeed but it is interesting to imagine if the GOP loses the WH again, whether they go even further right and off a cliff or if they pull back to be less insane.

              The 2016 GOP could be more moderate or resemble a Klan rally where moderates would fear to tread.

    • SueInCa says:

      NOT A BAD ANOLOGY BUT I WOULD ADD ONE MORE THING. None of them are trying to single themselves from the pack. They are tip toeing around each other, I guess the gloves will come off when the primaries actually start.

  10. AdLib says:

    Cain: Workers of corporations don’t have mistrust of the corporations they work for and all corporations treat their workers well.

    Except for all the major ones? Hello Walmart workers who just had a class action lawsuit against Walmart for sexist policies?

    But we shouldn’t count the nation’s biggest employer when we talk about corporations.

    I guess it’s a good thing Cain and the rest of the GOP are so clueless about how most Americans feel. Calling them dumb or ignorant for feeling as they do about corporations and their domination over us is exactly what will keep fueling the OWS protests and movement.

    • bito says:

      Adlib, from what I have read, Cain turned around both Burger King and GodFathers (in the Philli area) by closing a third of their stores. Job creation? A Romney/Cain ticket would have unemployment at 50% and corporate profits up 200%.

      • AdLib says:

        Thanks for the details, Bito!

        If you liked The Depression, you’ll love Romney/Cain 2012!

        • bito says:

          I can’t write, but I do love research. 😉
          Seriously, they both made money for their corporations/hedge funds by laying off people, does that bode well for the 99%ers? That is their mindset, should we think it will change if they were president?

          • foodchain says:

            pphhfff! Think, analyze, critique, write. Nothing better.

            If I were to have dinner with the most interesting people, it would be you, adlib,(really everyone)and hitler,--just because he should talk and stalin so I could poison him. I might not have presented myself sufficiently to be a reviewer, but, as a bad researcher and a good thinker and intuitor, I am so glad to learn from you.

            • bito says:

              Too kind, Food! I learn from you and others, it is the true value of the site. There has not been a day I haven’t learned many things and thought about it on this site.
              So many people dropping jewels for me and others to pick.

          • choicelady says:

            You write fine, bito! And your research is boffo.

            Don’t “misunderestimate” yourself. (I find I have to rethink that word every time. Damn.)

          • AdLib says:

            It certainly is a great point for Obama to make if he runs against Romney or both of them.

  11. SueInCa says:

    Cain wore a flag pin. But he still is a Martha’s Vineyard black man. Not appealing to many black people.

    Did he just say his Chilean tax plan? Republicans don’t like south American politics, he better watch it.

  12. bito says:

    Cain was the winner because no one watching will bother to crunch his numbers.
    Perry was weak, weak, weak and Mitt was Mitt.

    • choicelady says:

      Who wins if no one watched? I forgot it entirely -- had a glass of wine and made dinner. On the whole, a vastly more satisfying activity.

      So as with a tree falling in the woods -- if no one watched, was anything said?

      And YOU guys had to go and spoil it as a philosophical question by actually WATCHING!

    • AdLib says:

      Ignorance flourishes in the GOP because in that environment, there’s no one who has the desire, brains or integrity to question it.

      So Cain’s regressive 9-9-9 BS keeps chugging along as reasonable when it is really about making the poor pay far more and the wealthy pay far less and the government be strangled to death with insufficient revenues.

      It means goodbye to SS, Medicare and a wide array of social services, infrastructure, student loans…goodbye America as we know it.

      And yet, it’s a reasonable proposal?

      I’m not worried about it because Cain could never win the GOP nom or a GE but the MSM just lets destructive plans get passed around like candy that makes you lose weight.

      • choicelady says:

        It sounds reasonable -- but you nailed the problem: it shifts the burden onto us, off the rich, and kills what sustains us in the process. It’s a gift to Grover.

        • AdLib says:

          In the end, it destroys the Middle Class and the American economy and crushes the poor. Since 70% of our economy is driven by consumers, once you’ve gutted the consumer base, the economy collapses.

          Great plan, surprised Al Qaeda didn’t think of it first.

  13. SueInCa says:

    People in New Hampshire are well behaved and considerate even if they are republicans

  14. AdLib says:

    Instant reaction: Perry was weak again, didn’t help himself. All others maintained their positions.

    • Weirdwriter says:

      I’m surprised Jon Huntsman didn’t get asked more questions.

      • AdLib says:

        It does seem that most debates focus most questions on the front runners. Especially since the front runner is most attacked and the rules usually allow anyone who’s mentioned to respond.

        Huntsman swung at Romney but that only let Romney have more time to reply with more meaningless drivel, wrapped in magical thinking.

      • bito says:

        He’s out of the race, WW. He makes too much sense for the GOP primary voters.

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