A federal judge today blocked many of the key provisions of the Arizona Immigration law. Score one for the Constitution and rationality.
Aside from the aspects of this law that institutionalized racism (giving BS lip service to, “We won’t racially profile while we’re racially profiling.”), this law created a huge government intrusion into Americans’ lives.
For the Repubs, yes, Mexican Americans, Arab Americans, etc. are Americans too even though they’re not Anglo Americans.
But the buzz among the MSM is less about the details and more about, “Does this hurt the Democrats in November?” “Does this hurt Obama?” So, though the MSM wants to shove every issue into the political horse race meat grinder, the judge seems to have actually considered the practical ramifications of the AZ police arresting a massive amount of people and having to verify their citizenship or else be sued by citizens for not fully enforcing the law.
The net result would be innocent Americans being detained for undetermined amounts of time though they did nothing illegal, enormous costs to the AZ taxpayers and a squandering of law enforcement resources to house and process all of the people caught up in this poorly thought out law.
Meanwhile, McCain and Kyl block any attempt at a sensible immigration law wailing “NO AMNESTY!”, along with the rest of Republicans, because it’s to their political advantage to rile up the RW who hate “ferners” and non-whites…while attacking Congress for not passing reform. As with gay marriage and abortion, they don’t want a solution, they want the issue to continue because it helps raise money for their campaigns and rally their voters to the polls.
When the SCOTUS rules in favor of corporations, the GOP heralds the judicial process. When a state’s immigration law is found to conflict with federal jurisdiction, the judicial process is corrupt.
It’s like playing Monopoly with a self-centered eight year old brat, when things go his way, it’s great. When they don’t, he knocks the pieces around or kicks the board over. He doesn’t respect the rules unless they work for him. He isn’t there to play a game, he’s there to win a game and anything that gets between him and winning is the enemy.
Just as with the RW/Rove method of calling those who complain about racism, “racists”, we continue to be spiraling down in the world of public discourse, we seem to now matter-of-factly accept that one party (and one news network) are openly racist but because they make a strong argument for why they shouldn’t be viewed for what they are, many let them off the hook.
Will open racism end when a white man is president again? Sadly, I think it may decrease when those who are racist “feel” like white people are in control again.
We can thank The Founders for not making federal judgeships elected positions, one can only imagine how much worse this nation would be with judges pandering to Tea Partiers and Birthers.
And the younger Sheriff Joe from AJ and Pinal County – and both Babeu and Joe are from Massachusetts, go figure – and to make things even better for those of us in Pinal County is that Babeu’s nephew is running for Justice of the Peace.
And you know what that means – easier access to search warrants.
Hey, what was this I heard about Babeu on a White Supremacist radio show?
Sheriff Joe update – Toughest Sheriff?
(yeah, right)
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2010/08/joe_arpaios_latest_bogus_death.php
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2010/08/joe_arpaio_in_non-compliance_u.php
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2010/07/salvador_reza_released_prosecu.php
Okay…it began as “Take Back Ohio,” but I wouldn’t “Like It” and it took me to “Take Back America”. Be sure to read the comments, “breeding illegal immigrants”… Puhleeeze…
http://www.facebook.com/AmericanMajority?v=app_10442206389#!
Hi bito- thanks for publishing this link. I found myself without internet access to do the same. Many of the people who turned out for the mosque were my folks, and I’m overwhelmed at the support in what could have been a dangerous situation. I LOVED the comment by the woman – these are not al Quaeda – these are our neighbors. Perfect!
The disturbing side is the excuse that the reason there were only 2 protesters (apparently not even including the guy who sent the original alert from the teabaggers) was their “fear” of the Muslims. That is what drives all of this, isn’t it?
In the NC Times it mention that Salam al-Maryati was there. He’s the Executive Director of the Muslim Public Affairs Countil. I know him well and think the world of him. Creepy neo-con Danial Pipes calles him “the most dangerous man in America”. Why? I am NOT making this up – Pipes says it’s because Salam speaks without an accent. I once had him and the ED of CAIR Sacramento in my car to take them to the airport, and as I backed out of my spot I said, “I guess you two make this the most dangerous car in America!” Two nicer and more gentle men you could NOT wish to find.
I’m glad it was peaceful, but the Baptist minister who said he planned to try to convert each and every Muslim gives me cold chills. Christianity is the only religion I can think of that sets itself the chore of “turning” every single person to its rules. Even when they mean well – and some do – it’s arrogant. I was pondering this Friday at a restaurant called the Miwok cafe that is owned by a Miwok family. There was a picture of a shaman before a campfire with several other people – surrounded, clearly in some cases, and in shadows in others – by wolves, all peaceful, all listening to the shaman.
I think our drive as Christians to be missionaries is born of an unspoken issue, at least with respect to First Nations people. We believe that Christian missionaries fought to convert the “natives” because we believed we were more rational and in touch with a superior truth. In fact I think it’s because we feared First Nations people were right and did not NEED salvation. They were already where we needed to be. If your faith brings you to universality and oneness with nature and spirit, you are already there. White Westers rational people have a religion of rites, rules, regulation. Many other beliefs focus on oneness. We try to convert people to Christianity not because we think they are wrong so much as we fear they are right, and we have lost the power of pure spirituality with the One and with the world.
When we insist that Muslims are trying to impose Sharia law on us all, that’s not true. But they, far more than Christians, actually live with their faith. We stick our rules of economic justice in the Old Testament – prohibitions on interest, Jubilee ever 7 years to forgive debts, preservation of boundaries around harvests to give “first fruits” to the poor without reservation, control of profits and prices, justice for every person without regard to origins – and we pretend they are archaic artifacts we do not need to honor.
Muslim live by the Quar’an – there is a bank in Whittier CA and a nationwide financial operation, LARIBA that invest money in people rather than charging interest (riba). I refer homeowners there all the time. They pay attention to the details of the religion that confer justice and reverence. WE pretty much I have learned how magnificant the faith is and how much the awful stuff – stoning adulterous women – is entirely NATION based and not faith based.
So we fear Muslims because, rather than whining about not eating meat on Fridays, they live by a code of oneness and spirtuality that exceeds our own commitments. bin Laden has given Christians a great excuse to avoid confronting our own spiritual emptiness and lack of self discipline and for turning our own dis-ease with our beliefs and practices into self rationalizing hate of these other people.
I think we are watching the death throes of Christianity as an imperialist religion. It won’t go quietly and it won’t be pretty, but from the great thrashing out of what really matters, I hope a new spirituality will bloom and grow. It already is. Witness 60 people showing up on behalf of others to protect them. That is the face of hope and renewed commitment.
So eloquent, as always, c’lady.
Christian evangelical fervor always baffles me. True conversions happen when folks look at someone who positively radiates peace, joy and love, and say: “Gotta have me some o’ that.” No arm twisting should be required. If it is, something is radically wrong!
It seems that the god of the RR is a very tiny, weak and insecure god, if he needs bully-troops to protect him and push his cause. Apparently he is made in their image.
The genuine Article, on the other hand, can handle it. All of it. Atheists, non-Christians, Sarah Palin…everything this world can throw at Her.
I rarely watch EWTN, the old-school Catholic cable channel. But I happened to catch a bit of Fr. Benedict Groeschel’s program this morning. This guy would be an unlikely candidate for liberal of the year, but he does seem like a sweet, smart, sincere gentleman. He mentioned that he had been reading up on Jewish and Muslim mysticism and saw how many things seemed so familiar — so similar to Christian mysticism. His comment was: “These people have found God. Not Christ. But they have found God.”
Fr. Groeschel, that comment put you of the bad side of the fundies. But I’m right there with you.
Kes – good for the good Father! I know who he is even though apparently we don’t get EWTN but I’ve seen him in other cities that had it. He always did strike me as kind hearted indeed. Many of my friends here are nuns – amazing women. The Vatican should be proud but would be horrified! They are just astonishing in their warmth and compassion.
Good people to be found everywhere. Lots of creeps running loose, too. Best we can do is try to sort them out, keep compassion for those who are creeps with possibilities, and stay clear of the creeps with no redeeming features. And some day maybe we’ll learn to talk with one another. You never know…
But they Want to build a Mosque, C,Lady!!! Are “they” allowed freedom of religion too?
Some fool a few years ago had this to say about building a non-Christian place of worship in Newport, R.I. What kind of American patriot is he?
Wonder if would be allowed to join the Teabag Patriots? He probably doesn’t even own a dog to keep away them Mooslums.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/bigotry.html
The links in this article are many and good.
http://pr.thinkprogress.org/
This is from a letter from George Washington in 1790.
cl, welcome back. I’m so glad that only 2 protestors dared to show their faces and that the rest of the screamers were too cowardly to show theirs.
You said that Christians are the only religious group who want to convert, but that is not exactly true if you add the fundamentalist, radical element of Islam to the mix. We hear all the time that their goal is to convert the whole world, although I know that this is a failed quest on their part. This group is not just in the ranks of Al Quaida and the Taliban, it rears it’s head in the street protest by radical Muslims in the U.K. where freedom of speech allows them to call for death and violence against the British people and the government. It lurks in many cities and countries all over Europe, so being scared of this group of people is perfectly normal, while being scared of Muslims on the whole is not. You don’t have these kind of radical street protests in the U.S. so what are these people afraid of, they are afraid of what many people are afraid of, the unknown. They have no interest in learning about Islam, they prefer just to hate that which seems alien to them. While many more people want to learn about other religions and the cultures it creates, these ignorant, self-righteous “know it all but know nothings” will remain as they are because they believe that only what they are brainwashed into believing is the right way. If you offered these people a chance to learn about Islam, they would be running away with their hands pressed over their ears. A very sad situation, bigots and racists not even aware that their words and actions are bigoted and racist.
Hi Kalima. I got an update, and apparently 35 protesters were there but only two with dogs, one of them a poodle. Hey tough guys – a POODLE?
I think even radical fundamentalist Muslims don’t actually “convert” so much as they push existing Muslims to be more extremist. I’ve never encountered a Muslim missionary! Any faith can have these kinds of extremists – hey, any ideology of any kind can have them. But we(meaning Christians) are the only ones I can think of that have made an entire industry out of talking people OUT of one belief and into ours. Pentacostals who have sent missionaries to Central America do it to convert one Christian (Catholic) to another (Theirs), and here is where it begins to dovetail with radical wahabbism, the extremist form of Islam.
Fundamentalists of all types give me the willies, but ours don’t even pretend to live within their own codes of conduct. And mainstream Christians are the worst.
My nephew is Jewish, and I went to his bar mitzvah where for three hours he had to make speeches, read Hebrew (MY nephew can read Hebrew???) and engage with all the ritual. Add Ramadan – 30 days of fasting from dawn to dusk – and if Christians had to do ANY of that, there would be seven of them. And I’d not be one of them.
Christianity is a very low sacrifice faith these days. Can you see anyone being a martyr in reality? Oh, sure they SAY they’re martyrs because they can’t have everything they want, but honestly – would any of them really suffer and die for what they believe? I seriously doubt it. They have become far too fat and happy as people of wealth and privilege, and they are now the oppressors, not the victims. Now their big “sacrifice” is having to – GASP – allow other people their rights. Oh horrors! When WILL this persecution END????
So huzzah to my good folks who outnumbered ’em even with 35 (and a poodle) and who understand simple things: This is America. Everyone is welcome. Your faith doesn’t undermine one single thing I think or believe. You can be my neighbor and I yours. Let’s go for a beer. (Unless you’re Muslim and don’t drink then we’ll go for a milkshake. Same difference.)
God bless the world. NO exceptions.
“35 protesters were there but only two with dogs, one of them a poodle” gosh yes, a really scary poodle, poor little thing.
Of course you are correct about the missionaries, the Catholic nuns in Africa even when I was still a child, which changed over the years to genuine caring and helping the poorest survive. One thing I have never seen from my Church is the selling of God from door to door and our doors are always open to people in need, regardless of their faith or beliefs.
Living here in Asia, I see little of the pushiness, although I’ve had my share of speaking to very pushy JW foreigners at my door wanting to share their bible reading with me, I’ve always been polite but firm, telling them thanks but no thanks, I’m a RC. That all changed this Easter when an English speaking Japanese woman, after I had told her that I was a Catholic, asked me if we believed and celebrated the death of Jesus. For some reason it annoyed me and for the first time in years, I went outside to confront them. By the time I had finished, she knew exactly what I believed in, why I didn’t appreciate some things that she believed in, and that we Catholics are not ardent Bible readers and as far back as I can remember, never were.
I have always been tolerant and accepting of other faiths, I was taught to be by my grandparents, but don’t look to kindly on people knocking on my door trying to sell me Jesus like he was a commodity or an insurance policy.
We had dear friends many years ago and the wife converted to JW, she became so involved with the church that she parroted the teachings to anyone within earshot. Within less than two years, she had changed from a light hearted woman to a very serious, chastising and unapproachable human being, who was totally convinced that only the church had the right answers. When she attempted to convert her young children and her husband, he took the children with him when he left. No longer being able to reason with her, he filed for divorce. A very sad ending to a very sweet and loving couple.
I have heard that this same kind of story has been on the increase here in Japan in the last decade.
Oh my gosh, Kalima – JW’s!! Yup – I have also described them (and the Mormons) as being as bad as the Fuller Brush man peddling their wares at the door. I am no longer even polite when I answer the door to find them standing there!!
I know someone, close to me, who became a JW over a decade ago and, like your friend, she became such a dour woman I no longer recognize her. The final straw, for me, came when I sent her an email I had received – one of those “life is short so tell those you love that you love them and don’t stop” – and her reply just floored me; effectively she told me she was happy in the knowledge that she was going to heaven and didn’t need anybody’s love. Needless to say I haven’t communicated with her since. I remember her as the fun-loving, spirited young girl she was – not the mean woman she has become.
How did she know for sure she was going to heaven? Did she receive a special memo telling her she was one of the 144?
I work with a person who has followed this path since childhood along with children, and grandchildren. Often, the stories I hear make me cringe. It is a closed community, cliquish, no diversity outside the Hall. They walk among us, but after reading about the origins, and the entity making the money and holding the purse strings…it’s frightening.
I know for a fact that children are dragged to meetings (on school nights, often not getting home until 10-11 PM and still there is homework to do. Yet there seems to be a disconnect because the grownups can’t understand why the kids aren’t doing well in school or don’t want to get up in the morning. It isn’t rocket science.
Of course, I guess any organized faith has it’s flaws – which is exactly why I am no longer organized…or part of the flock…any flock. Exception…like Kalima, I love my furry family, and they give me a reason to get up in the morning and come home every night. Two very important things that most human friends can’t do.
Maybe rational people have learned these lessons. I still have some Islamophobic ankle-biters ‘over-yonder’ though. They do the whole generalized “the Muslim world is barbarous” horror story links and scoff and bristle when I suggest that they are painting with a broad brush and attempt to introduce perspective and nuance to the various cultures. They always lose against me, but they can never admit it or give it up, either. They just play cute. One even criticized me for trying to teach them about Persian culture when I innocently added something to a story and they got an attitude for me merely humanizing the situation and adding all the Muslims who were against said injustice (whenever I do this they get visibly irked that I’ve complicated their caricature of a purely medieval world of scimitars and burqas). Hurrah, taking pride in ignorance. The great America of Palin.
To add to this point though. I think, in history, that when there’s been the greatest ruckus, is when that side is already losing their battle. As with Civil Rights, as with Latinos now.
Daniel Pipes. Do not get me started on him… but I’m very impressed you know director of MPAC. 🙂
Here is the story from Loonwatch:
http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/08/mosque-protesters-bring-their-dogs-met-by-freedom-of-religion-protesters/#comment-17002
Man, these people are, forgive me for my language, dumber than shit.
Apparently they just make up things they don’t like about Muslims. Their idea of ‘Muslims’ becomes a receptacle (thank you Bachmann) for all of their delusional fears.
Apparently a troll berated the Democrats for being “anti-business and pro-Islam.” I mean, as if it were an insult to be “pro-Islam.”
I asked them: just how many non-white demographics do you intend on eventually alienating and purging?
More and more I’ve noticed they’ve completely dropped the pretense of differentiating between extremists and the majority of Muslims. It’s actually gotten worse the further we’ve gotten from 9/11, in a sense.
It may seem kinda weird, but I actually appreciate it. I think they’re being more honest no longer paying lip service to Bush, whom ironically did go out of his way to stress the difference – Obama could never go to a mosque like Bush did. I wish he would though. Screw these haters. It’s becoming where we not only need another race speech after Sherrod, but we REALLY need a speech on religious tolerance, as well. Hold it at the National Cathedral with an interfaith panel. Please!
Khirad, I just had to post and let the good folks at Loonwatch know that, as c’lady said, two dogs were brought to the demonstration — one of them a POODLE. I’m so glad she posted that! 😆
The Temecula Islamic Center demonstration, with dogs, yesterday occurred with only two dogs and two dozen people. According to the article there were 60 supporters of the center vs. the two dozen. One exchange I did like, some I didn’t, was this:
I don’t see any national coverage on the demonstration.
http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/temecula/article_4aaac15f-a0a7-576d-9da4-25d240cd45c4.html
Duh, Jan, that is how our government is organized! You know, THREE branches of government? No,instead you and your fellow travlers would rather spew your inflammatory, hateful remarks.
I like how she tries to have it both ways. It is constitutional,but….
Now about your supporters and threats to the millions of Hispanic-Americans and the judge, any words for them?
R’s: Politics over policy!!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100730/ap_on_re_us/us_arizona_immigration
Has anyone mentioned that a civil right’s lawyer, who just happened to be a black woman, was arrested for unknown reasons?
She was an observer.
Also, a photographer for the Arizona Republic was also arrested?
Sheriff Joe is on a rampage, flexing his Republican muscles, and he’s regained his popularity now.
I don’t know how to do a link with the problems we’ve been having with our laptop, but check out the Phoenix New Times if you’re interested and azcentral.com.
Sheriff Joe is still under a Federal grand jury investigation for abuse of power, but the grand jury only meets once a month, so it’s a long process.
Sheriff Joe has been encouraged by the SB1070 popularity and he did another raid in a part of Chandler yesterday that is heavily Hispanic.
I can’t explain it correctly ever when it comes to SB1070, but there is not one American that supports illegals that are drug runners, coyotes or human smugglers or criminals.
Heck, I’ll even go as far as to say that I do not support illegals that come over and stay.
It’s a complicated issue.
The thing that I am against when it comes to SB1070 is the racial profiling.
We worked with legal Mexicans.
Actually, we worked with Mexican Americans that were children born from legal immigrants.
Way back when Sheriff Joe did one of his first roundups of illegals, they snared 2 of our engineers that were 3rd and 4th generation legal Mexicans.
They were stopped, and this happened back in the 90’s, and were arrested.
These were 2 men that had driver’s licenses, but it wasn’t enough to save their dignity.
They were released once their wives brought in their birth certificates.
This is the United States of America, and we as Americans should never be asked to show our papers, whether we are white, black, brown or any other color.
That original roundup in Chandler by the way, is still in the courts when it comes to settlements.
The last I read about Sheriff Joe was that some judge and certain county officials ordered that the county would no longer cover Sheriff Joe’s legal expenses for when he is sued for wrongdoing, but he must cover the cost personally.
For those of us that are Arizonans, we should support, imho, Rick Romley, and yeah, he’s a Republican, but he has never taken any shit from Sheriff Joe.
One thing that gets me is how much national news did Gov.Janet Nepolitano (D-AZ) and Gov. Richardson (D-NM) get when they sued the Bush administration on immigration enforcement? They made news for about minute and a half! Same with all the demonstrations and marches in SOAZ concerning all the deaths in the deserts. Obama is enforcing the laws more than Bush ever did. Oh, I forgot; He’s a Dem and black.
I still have my files on Sheriff Joe, B’ito.
He fascinates me because he gets away with so much.
He’s responsible for so many deaths and hardships from his jails and his actions cost the taxpayers of Maricopa County millions of dollars, yet people still love him because he hates Mexicans – legal or not.
I’m on vacation, and have been taking a break, but I can never take a break from Sheriff Joe.
He’s such a prick and a racist prick, and not only that, but he gets away with far too much.
He’s had the New Times reporters arrested wrongfully for investigating his land deals.
The taxpayers of Maricopa County had to pay the New Times 60G’s for wrongful arrest.
And the thing with Mexican females that were pregnant, and they had to give birth while restrained with handcuffs and a deputy in the delivery room – it’s just too much.
George Wallace must be proud of Sheriff Joe.
Joe is 78 years old, and he’ll never give up.
He’s evil, like Cheney, so when they say only the good die young, that’s true.
j’avaz, Khirad and I were lamenting that we weren’t getting your great posts on Sheriff Joe, you have some good stuff on him and his exploits, but NO! You have to leave us and enjoy yourself, vacation! 😉
“This Just In” from the LA Times
“Islamic group denounces planned protest against Temecula mosque
July 27, 2010 | 11:39 am”
Zarro is one of my guys! Cool!
I fear for the people who are the targets of hate. As with the lynch mobs of yore, they believe they have the RIGHT to harm those whom they don’t like. I hope the cops are stand up people because their first and only duty is to prevent harm. Children come to the weekly prayer service, and it curdles my blood that they will see such actions directed against them and their parents. Children who are victims of hate never get over it. Never. I hope they also see the people who are there for and with them.
This has GOT to stop, but I don’t know how to make that happen.
Here’s what the Sheriff in my neck of the woods in northern Arizona is saying about SB 1070.
http://www.mohavedailynews.com/articles/2010/07/29/news/local/doc4c512a7fc628a374182160.txt
This intolerable situation can be blamed squarely on the repunlican leadership in congress. They have been dragging their feet ever since they gained control of congress in 1994. Their goal has always been to eliminate minimum wage laws and they saw illegal workers as a club to force the American people to accept their policy. When the democrats gained control of congress in 2006 they tried to pass comprehensive reform. So now what is the republican policy with regard to illegal immigrants? Make their lives so hellish to get them to leave on their own. Well, you know what? That’s what Hitler did to the German Jews when he came to power in 1933.
I think there is a division here, between what the Repubs really want and what they’re feeding into the heads of their followers to rile them up enough to show up on election day.
The Repubs want the cheap labor so they don’t want illegals to become legal through amnesty and be entitled to minimum wage. Meanwhile, they use the only tools they have, fear and anger to whip their lemmings up so they’ll contribute and vote.
It’s a very cynical game and the rank and file are too needy to vent their anger and frustration at the disappointing life their own party has pushed them into, to look up and see things for how they really are.
with the financial problems of both the state and counties, this is one section of the of the law that our sheriff disagreed with. The cost to the counties could be large.
Hi- I was just at a farewell party for my former intern who is now heading to grad school after a couple of years working for the ACLU in Sacramento. Several of the people there, I included, knew about the federal ruling, and it provoked great cheers, toasts, huzzahs – sense prevailed, and it was a relief.
I want, NOT off topic, to refer you all to the best book, maybe ever, on the origins of our national mythology and the truth that underpins it. “Confederate Reckoning” by Stephanie McCurry just blows the image of the Confederacy to smithereens. She looked at women and slaves under this regime and found that the Good Old Boys – all slave owners – created a government for Rich White Slave Owners, exempting their plantations and sons from conscription in the process of secession and war. They allowed the merchants to jack up food prices to the point that the women left behind who were ordinary hardscrabble farmers were priced out of food. It wasn’t the Yankees who starved the South – it was the SOUTH that starved their own people. Women joined together as “Regulators” and first petitioned the merchants then, when the merchants refused to lower prices, stormed the warehouses and took the food. Slaves were NOT devoted to dear old Pappy – they left in droves, and when forced to fight, did NOT comply. White deserters from the Confederate Army found refuge and support from fleeing slaves.
Today the pink and misty pretenses about the glory days of the Confederacy MUST be challenged by this book. This was the Rich Old Guys war, and they used and disposed of tenant and small farmers and craftspeople as if they were garbage. Every NON elite, NON aristocratic Southerner should celebrate their own family histories by tearing down the stars and bars, stomping on them, and turning on their masters. White and Black need to make pacts together against the evil that was done to them.
Anti immigrant sentiments among the descendants of any immigrant group that was equally opporessed, hated, and rejected, need to be rejected. It’s not beyond the pale that Italians, Eastern Europeans, and anyone else the WASP majority hated a century ago could become the target of hate once again. Molly Ivins once wisely noted that politics in America is not Left and Right – it’s Up and Down. Until we get that in our minds, we will never EVER win this battle. The Ruling Class is laughing at us all, hating immigrants instead of them. Immigrants take nothing from us. The ruling class takes EVERYTHING from us!
Immigrants, Confederates, steelworkers, whoever – we are in this together. And this coming Friday the Tea Bag people are rallying at the Islamic Center mosque in Temecula, CA and bringing DOGS to terrorize and intimidate Muslims headed for weekly prayers. I’ve asked my people to turn out as “Friends of the Mosque” – this cannot go unanswered and unremarked. I’d love to know what kind of reception the Tea Bag people’s forebears got when they showed up in my ancestors’ town – I regret that despite some very positive things my family did (ran an underground RR stop in Illinois and refused, like Thoreau, to pay taxes for the Mexican American War) they were WASP snobs who hated immigrants.
When will people stop identifying with “Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous” and begin honoring their own immigrant, labor, union, progressive, populist past that brought people together and made them strong against the ruling class?
Are we really so stupid today? Are we really so ignorant? I hope that all of this is the presage to illumination. If it’s not, we are doomed as a nation and democracy is doomed as a system.
The gathering of wet tea bags with dogs outside of a mosque, can’t be legal surely?
It sounds like public harassment and disapprobation of religious freedom to me. If the authorities don’t step in, it would be unforgivable. These people are mentally sick.
They are ruining an image of Americans being kind hearted and tolerant for many of us who live outside of your country. Not everyone who reads about these and many other issues, blogs as I do on an American based Progressive blog and therefore don’t really grasp that these groups of nutters are only comprised of a small percentage of American citizens.
Kes posted this link yesterday in O/T
http://www.doveworld.org/
… I was horrified at the kind of mentality that these people, and others like them, possess. I really fear that hate of the ‘other’ is growing by leaps and bounds in the States; that 9/11 and the Bush government’s response to it has left such fear and loathing in it’s wake that it has become OK to openly be a racist against any non-white, any non-straight, any Other. I don’t know what can be done to turn this around, I really don’t ….. reason and sanity seems to have disappeared from the national discourse.
I’ve been browsing a lot of blogs in the last few days and happened on one that was written by a Republican gay man (don’t remember the name so I don’t have a link) who was ranting on about Sherrod being a racist and, apart from his reasoning behind his attack, the comments section just blew my mind.
Normal, decent-minded people from both the left and the right have got to take the two parties back from the nutjobs and corporate hacks out there or this will only get worse.
As much as I am concerned for you all, I am equally concerned for my country …. there’s a lot of seepage of ideas that flows north. We’re always a few years behind but Thatcherism arrived here and now we have Bush-lite heading our government – I’m waiting with bated breath for the open racism to start; and it will – I’ve already seen some not-so-veiled comments on Canadian sites and I worry about my country.
When did it get to be OK to stand with dogs outside a mosque – I just don’t understand!
I saw the link Mw and watched the video too. By the time this weirdo had finished, I felt as if I was going to barf all over my Mac, but I was very angry too.
Yes I’m worried about the U.K. too. There was a lot of tension and violence against minorities 30 years ago in the north and even the Midlands were my father still lives, mostly young, ignorant and often drunk thugs, but it was always there under the surface.
These days with the open aggression allowed in the streets by fanatical Muslims shouting and threatening the people and government of the U.K. it won’t be long before the pot boils over. On MB I left a link to something Cameron said that caused an uproar in Pakistan and England.
The mosque being harassed by sickos with dogs, made me think of the past in the south when AA were hunted down using dogs, same mentality, I see little difference. There should and I hope there is a police presence on the scene, and that some people there to support the people entering the building bring video cameras, so that their crap can be shown on youtube for all the world to see.
What to do about it, well their so called leaders should be shamed into publicly explaining if they support this crazy behaviour, why they support it, or grow a pair and disown the movement on tv.
Sorry I got a bit carried away, I forgot to say good morning. Good morning Mw.
Kalima – it IS identical, and I’d not be surprised if some of these Tea Bag people were direct descendants of the lynch mobs of the South.
The police are supposed to be present, but…who are THEY? Hate crimes committed under color of authority are on the RISE. I have watched police turn blind eyes to all kinds of violence if they like the perps and hate the victims. WE are only marginally a nation of laws if the enforcers themselves choose who’s deserving and who’s not.
I hope things will be peaceful, but we won’t know until after 2:00 tomorrow afternoon when the worshippers leave the mosque. And then – will they all make it safely home? Last year a young woman, a wife and mother who wore the hijab, was shot at point blank range after she apparently opened the door to someone. I’m not over that. It curdles my blood. I’m already thinking Anne Frank – is there room for my friends? I will MAKE room for my friends!
It really is a shame that the media won’t get off their fat arses to report on this live. Maybe had she known about it, Rachel could have arranged for someone to be there to film the buggers.
Yes, it all depends on the police, but this is downright harassment, and should the yobos turn violent, I can only hope that they do the job they were trained for, and haul these idiots off to jail.
Please, if you have the time, keep us informed. I’ll think of these people and pray that no one gets hurt. Hearing about this made me think that we must be living on another planet. What right do they have to do this, for what purpose and why?
Last year a young woman, a wife and mother who wore the hijab, was shot at point blank range
That’s awful!!!
Is it too soon to say that anarchy now reigns in the US of A??
I agree with you about the police presence and the problems that may present – who will police the police! We are hearing awful stories in this area about police misbehaviour during the G8/G20. All good-thinking citizens should be very concerned about the seeming thugs who now hold positions of power.
Please be safe tomorrow CLady – I shall not rest until I know you are!!
I hear you about the racism in the UK – it was alive and well when I was a child – my Mum worked with a fellow who was just awful when it came to folks who weren’t white. It hasn’t gotten any better over there and in Europe in general. ‘Muslim’ is today’s ‘black’ …. it is sickening.
Kalima = Dr. Harthout who is mosque president did tell me the police would be present, but it rather depends on the police, doesn’t it? Is this what our founding fathers wanted in the right to assemble? For those bringing the dogs, that’s how they seem to interpret it. The rant they posted is “Islams (sic) are afraid of dogs” so the point is sheer terrorism.
I agree that if anyone outside the US were to read of this they would assume people of hate were the norm. But the people of hate are NO different from the lynch mobs of old – and in fact we have reason to believe they’re still lynching men of color, just covering it up as “suicide”. Easy enough to do if the lynchings go on under color of authority. We are recapitulating our early 20th century Jim Crow history, just with new targets, new faces. The hate, however, is the same.
If you are going to be present, please be careful, and good luck to all of you. Many people need you to continue the great work that you are doing.
When you find the time, please keep us informed about what happened there, thank you.
Good day and good night cl.
Thank you, dear friend, but I can’t be there since it’s about 450 miles away, and I am headed elsewhere today. I will stay in touch with my friends in the Muslim community and will let you all know what happens. I’m sure I can find a computer where I’m going! It’s NOT the outer woods!
It is a minority that is racist and hateful but from the stats, it may represent 20% 30% or more of Americans. That’s still a lot of ignorant, hateful people out there.
They do seem to be more localized, outside of most urban areas and that’s no coincidence.
I found this recent NYT article interesting and enlightening on this:
ChoiceLady, I must say there are too many folks
that we will just have to call, Dummies!
httpsh://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPStL89TcMY&feature=player_embedded
Patsy = I fear you are so correct! Does anyone think the dumbing of our educational system is an accident? I don’t. I think after the 60s those in power determined they never again wanted educated, thinking people who challenged the system of power and privilege. All our efforts to “improve” schools focus on skills that make us good little worker bees, not smart people. When Glen Beck says he’s not an intellectual but he IS a “thinker” (Gag) he means he’s busy with magical thinking, and that today passes for deep intelligence. A nation of dummies indeed.
Well said, CL!
But dummies with lots of self-esteem and confidence, c’lady and Patsy! Thanks to the dumbed down schools and the glorification of T-Bag tactics, we now have a whole new sub-culture of the grandiose ignorant.
Like the 22 year old who got in my face last evening at work, when I didn’t hop to it and obey her orders fast enough. Her orders included taking her father out of the hospital and across the street (when he had just emerged from the recovery room after surgery 15 minutes earlier) — so that he could smoke a cigarette! That and overdosing him on IV pain meds. She was furious when I said no. After all, she — who hadn’t managed to get through even the current “user-friendly” high school curriculum — was not going to take a back seat to any person or system that was trying to limit her or Daddy’s freedom to smoke and be drugged.
And their numbers seem to be growing…
Scawy…. 🙁
kes – I’m supposed to be non-violent, but I wish you had the latitude to bitch slap some sense into her! Obviously reason and logic don’t work, nor simple civility to others.
I am appalled at the amount of sheer nastiness that enters our most casual transactions. I think it’s because we all feel ripped off by our current system of privilege for the few, but honestly – what IS the point of being nasty to YOU when you’re helping this man and doing the right thing for and by him? It’s what lies behind shootings over feeling you’ve been “dissed” by someone. Some rich white kid gave me the finger because he was backing into me with his truck, and I had the NERVE to honk to warn him I was there. Wooo – what an evil person am I! That’s how stupid we’ve become.
I have memorized only one Bible verse: Jesus wept. But it’s come in handy more and more as time goes by.
How dare you try to prevent an accident by tapping on your horn, c’lady! I would guess you’re supposed to count yourself lucky that Richie Rich didn’t leap out of his vehicle and punch you in the face for that offence against his dignity. 👿
As I’m sure you know, the young lady I dealt with at the hospital would have been the very first to have a personal injury lawyer on speed dial if I had given the green light to her father’s smoking excursion, and he had a fall or suffered post-op complications. Nice situations we’re placed in, no? If I refuse their T-Baggy demands, I’m reported as not “customer friendly.” If I accede, and anything happens, I’m sued for malpractice.
Not to make this “all about me”! But the Obama admin,, and the left in general is really in the same situation. As the only adult in the room, we’re forced to take charge. And, natch, when we do, the rocks start flying in our direction from people who have no rational plan of their own, but plenty of outrage to “compensate.”
That’s one of my favorite vids. It’s amazing to me how few of them realize that minus slavery, they are advocating all the “talking points” of the South. Tyranny! Nullification!
Choicelady, very much appreciate your post. It makes far more sense and fits far better into the scheme of things.
Throughout history, war has almost always had the support of the powerful and wealthy because of how it will enhance their power and wealth, but rarely has their physical support in fighting a war.
I saw another story about a cult-Christian church (Dove) staging a hateful protest in front of a mosque on 9/11.
Are we that ignorant? No. Are they? Yep.
Ironically it was the democrats prior to the Civil War who were slave owning southern “gentleman.” Remember Jefferson and Jackson? The whig party was anti-slavery with a northern political base. When the whig party disbanded and became the republican party in 1854 it retained it’s northern roots.
After the Civil War the republicans held the presidency except for Grover Cleveland, and Woodrow Wilson. Then Franklin Roosevelt was elected in 1932.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States
Today, thanks to Nixon and Ronnie Raygun, regionalism has dissolved into a “free for all.” New England states, once a bastion of republicanism, are now firmly democratic. Southern and western states except for Utah and Idaho could go either way. Same thing with the midwest. Also Wilson was elcted because Teddy Roosevelt ran a third party campaign. The same happened with Ross Perot and Bill Clinton in 1992.
You are right on the Confederacy. The only thing I can take away from me clinging to some small – I don’t know the word – it’s not nostalgia or affection – but some small feeling, is for the average Johnny Reb whom stayed and fought valiantly for their home, their state. That being said, they were pawns, and their fight was misdirected. I know you’re right, I’ve mentioned my struggle with this a few times. I can’t stand so many things about the CSA, am glad it didn’t survive (I reckon it would’ve collapsed on its own anyway) and its continuing ideology under the Tea Party guise today, but its romantic portrayal is hard to completely extricate. Sigh, what is wrong with me?
I may be harping on this issue, but I am frustrated that this uproar against Muslims is not getting the attention it deserves.
One question: if this were against Jews and synagogues, do you think it would be getting more attention?
What’s the real difference? In fact, these are the same people that would have been rabid anti-Semites in the last century.
Actually, another question. If they want to show up with dogs (which they may be surprised, not all Muslims hate – and in fact are regarded with contempt among conservative Hindus as well), what could we show up with in return? It’s a Friday, so maybe you could have a Halal BBQ and invite them to partake?
Khirad, I think we all recognize why this bigotry against Muslims isn’t getting the attention it should, because bigotry against Muslims is widespread across the nation especially after 9/11.
News channels are probably skittish about focusing on it for fear of viewer outrage. Look at how little MSM pushback there’s been about the BS about a Mosque being built at Ground Zero…even though it would be two blocks away. On that issue, what ordinance do these haters want? Only Christianity can be worshiped within a one mile radius of Ground Zero?
Kalima mentioned below, there’s been no discussion about the outrage of rounding up all Muslims right after 9/11. We look back at WW II and the internment of Japanese in America as a shameful and wrong thing to do…yet doing the same to Muslims was business as usual?
And imagine if a Muslim group was angered at being the target of hate and protested themselves, how would that be covered on Fox? For that reason, I think Muslims are socially pressured in this country to keep silent and not protest too loudly about the prejudice against them.
Khirad – I confess I don’t understand the nostalgia if your own family was not part of the gentility (odd word for people who owned and trafficked in human flesh, but there it is) but were used as canon fodder to preserve upper class power and privilege. Some of the planters’ wives joined with poor farmers’ wives to protest the food scarcity – manufactured by the merchants. They did not become “Regulators” but did write and petition for fairness. So please understand – I do NOT understand. I don’t think anything is wrong with you at all – I just simply don’t “get it”. Wouldn’t be the first time!
As for tomorrow at the Mosque, well I just hope my folks turn out and that the police keep it civil. Because I know LEOs can be just as bigoted as anyone, I have grave worries. I’m so scared for everyone JUST GOING TO THEIR SERVICE. The rants against Islam I’ve read that are being used to justify this action with dogs are simply disgusting ignorance.
Right after 9/11, the FIRST people to step forward on behalf of the Muslim community were Japanese Americans. They knew all too well how easy it is to demonize an entire population. About five seconds after that, at least in Sacramento, the faith community (well, OK – the progressive faith community) stepped forward as well.
One sort of funny but maybe awful story – Sept. 12 a group of us were meeting at a Mideastern restaurant simply to show support. I was walking from my car a block away and passed a man dressed in jeans, cowboy boots and hat, with a bandanna around his neck. But it was clear to me he was Mideastern. So on 9/12 it was better to be though an undocumented Latino than a legal Muslim. I can’t decide whether to laugh at his ingenuity or cry over his necessity.
If you want to show up with Halal BBQ let me know – I’ll book a plane! Whatever shows joy and humanity, comfort and community all works. But food is always good! Especially that! Thank you, Khirad.
There is quite a lot of coverage of this proposed event in southern CA papers, but since it has not yet happened, and no one has yet been bitten, the MSM see it as a big yawn. Would it be different if it were a synagogue and Jews? I just don’t know. I’m thinking it’s reduced to “if it bleeds it leads” mentality and that no one and nothing actually matters anymore. “Investigative reporting” today is confined to rooting our welfare fraud and revealing sexual trivia about elected leaders. Justice? Community? Brother- and sisterhood? Discrimination? Double yawn.
I do not know how to make people care. We did once. What happened to us?
When I wrote that hypothetical question I was thinking about this Jewish thing with the ADL making the swastika a universal hate symbol receiving coverage, for a spate of swastikas appearing against not only jews, but directed against blacks, as well.
Quite honestly, I can’t wait for these haters to graffiti a swastika on a Hindu temple!
I think the problem with the South I have is what many people have with soldiers fighting in Iraq, or Vietnam. How do you tell the families not to be proud for a lost cause, an unneeded war? My ancestors fought and lost their lives (and I have those who fought for the North as well) for a tragedy of a war which didn’t need to happen, nor which needed to last as long as it did. I honor them, and their ‘uniform’ (metaphorical as this is), but not their cause nor their country’s leaders – which did use them as canon fodder – how many plantation sons fought?
Furthermore, the idea of being a rebel, completely divorced from the reality of the facts was alluring to me as a child (and especially as a teen). I don’t even associate this with the revisionist Southern history “heritage” groups, but with the likes of Lynyrd Skynyrd, Tom Petty or Johnny Depp in Cry-Baby.
Like the swastika, I guess I see two completely different meanings to Southern symbols. Unlike with the swastika, one of these is the product of romanticization, and not two separate histories. It’s sort of like how outlaws have been dramatized, when in reality, they were often just amoral, sociopathic murderers (
I understand where you’re coming from Khirad ….. emotional attachments can overwhelm reason and logic at times. I still get a tear in my eye when seeing a Spitfire in flight and strains of the Dambusters sing in my head ….I still have romantic notions of the British Raj even knowing what happened in India was awful. Neither of us would wish either the pre-Civil War or the Empire days back but there are those folks out there who do 🙁 …… yeah – that’s it – blame Hollywood 😆
Phew. I’m a bit slugged out on this topic. I was, if I may so humbly say so, demolishing the haterade patroll [sic] today.
It was kinda fun, I’ll admit it.
But, like you say – when they lose an argument or get cornered, they fall back on “this is about rights for illegals” or the magic word “amnesty.”
My favorite part about them focusing on the straw man of focusing on illegals, without once recognizing the true problem this posed for legal citizens with a natural tan – reveals to me a mindset.
It’s like a peek into a mindset that doesn’t readily see brown people as citizens in the first place. Whether or not any number are racist, I don’t know what percentage I’d reckon.
But, there is a latent racism here, even if they be good people with the best of intentions.
How fun it must be for so many Repubs to be able to have one issue after another manufactured by the RW in which they can exercise their hatred and racism under cover of “Americanism”.
As I mentioned below, the bottom line is that these corporations which the mindless Repub lemmings worship would move their jobs to where the ex-immigrants are if they weren’t in the U.S..
And how many of these racist whiners has ever worked or would ever work picking strawberries?
It’s all a scam to infuriate Repubs and drive them into the voting booth. Repubs want issues, not resolutions, because if voters instead had to choose between whose policies they supported, Repubs would never control Congress or the Presidency again.
I posted this link in OT earlier and I hope everyone takes the time to either read it or watch the video. Is is an interview on The Travis Smiley show with the sheriff in Pima County (Tucson). He has been saying the same thing for months but he is rarely heard outside the “liberal media. He has been a cop in this border county for over 50 years and is a voice of experience (daily) and reason. What a difference it would be if Jan Brewer, et al, had listened to him, a frontline law enforcer.
http://www.pbs.org/kcet/tavissmiley/archive/201005/20100511_dupnik.html
And this one especially like. It pretty much covers the “why now” question.
I saw this Sheriff on MSNBC yesterday and previously, he’s speaking for many in law enforcement.
Again, here is a man who is discussing the actual logistics of implementing this insane law and how messed up it would be. The supporters just speak in general BS about it, of course it sounds great to the angry, mindless people out there, they’re not having to confront what the law would actually do.
This is a very postive development but sadly you are right Adlib. The politics of division and fear still prevails in this country. You don’t have to go any further and so called progressive media like HP who feeds the flames of discontent.
Like most things illegal immigration is a problem mainly perpetuated by big business that fights any real checks on undocumented workers. The same people who blame illegal immigrants for “stealing our jobs” just can’t connect that those jobs would not be there if business did not create them.
Yep, if only the Dems would explain that if the immigrants were shipped back out of the U.S., the jobs would go with them.
If the only place a corp could employ low-paid workers is Mexico, they’ll move their operations there. This major flaw in the racists’ justifications has not been exposed the way it should be.
This says it all.
http://azstarnet.com/news/opinion/fitz/image_dabd759e-9a91-11df-b008-001cc4c002e0.html
They don’t have enough water. Rule of thumb is 1 gallon per day per person. In the desert you have to double or triple that.
😆 Fitz ❗ A Tucson Treasure! He sticks his thumb in their eye with the best of them!
Heh, I was posting that today.
And for Repubs who live in the desert, the number of gallons of water they consume per day coincidentally matches the number brain cells they exercise per day.
First off – Greetings from Ronan, Montana!
Am I the only person that saw the article about Michael Bloomberg – the mayor of New York – joining together with CEOs of major corporations and gasp! Rupert Murdoch demanding amnesty for illegals?
Or maybe it was worded the “path to citizenship”?
The corporations, imho, are going to let this madness only go so far before they call a halt to it.
Corporations want illegals – read “Think Progress” about Target supporting Republicans because of minimum wage – they want to eliminate minimum wage.
That’s not news.
I’ve been unable to read the news or even see the news, and that’s a good thing, but am catching up when we can get WIFI and the tee-vee.
SB1070 has made Brewer, who was despised when she first took over when Napolitano was appointed the head of DHS.
Brewer was hated by Arizonans (I’ve lost my spellcheck somehow, so please forgive me) because she couldn’t even work with the majority of the state’s legislature, which is Republican.
She raised our property taxes, and did a ballot initiative for an additional penny sales tax, which brought us in AJ up to ten cents per dollar.
She cut taxes for the rich and corporations, while raising our taxes and cutting funds for the schools and poor, and laying off state workers, teachers and police and firemen.
She was despised, until SB1070, and now she is the most popular governor (and she’s not elected yet) not only in the state, but in the country.
She will win the election for governor on SB1070 alone.
Two of her close consultants are lobbyists for Corporate owned prisons – read TPM for that bit – so, SB1070 is not only a racist bill, but it has the potential to make private prisons very rich.
When we were camped at our last site, I met a young man from Chicago, and he was very dark-skinned.
He asked me about SB1070, and I told him that I was against it and then we talked about gun laws and how Arizona has the most liberal gun laws in the nation while Chicago and Mayor Daly are striving to have the strictest.
He actually asked me if he were to visit Arizona if he would be stopped and asked for his papers.
The man had the Chicago accent and was an American, and my reply to him was that I could not promise him that it wouldn’t happen.
Those of us in Arizona that are Liberals, Progressives or Democrats like to say –
Welcome to Aryanzona – it’s a dry hate.
A few years ago McCain and Ted Kennedy introduced legislation that would have enabled any illegal alien who had been in the country for an extended period and could prove it, stay. They would have had to pay a fine and return to their home country if only for a few days and then enter the country legally and return to their jobs. McCain decided he had been hoodwinked into supporting amnesty. Was he? I don’t think so. Then McCain flip-flopped when he decided he wanted to run for president. DUUUUUHH! Big mistake. Hispanic voters abandoned him.
Years ago I spoke with Senator McCain and said that I disagreed with him most of the time, but I respected his integrity. Since he lost the election I would now tell him that I disagree with him and he has very little integrity. He has been shameful since, and I don’t understand why he has damaged his reputation rather than just retire.
Perhaps, I was fooled from the very beginning.
Never ever have I seen a candidate so spiteful after losing a presidential election. I even appreciate Dole and the first Bush a little more after the way McCain has acted so horribly.
Not to mention that every campaign promise like immigration and Wall Street reform he simply lied about.
I still shudder to think that a man this bitter and nasty was almost president.
I think we were all fooled a bit by McCain. This expose of McCain in Rolling Stone during the 2008 election cleared up the whole thing for me, that McCain is a fraud and an opportunist and always has been:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/12637/64653
I was fooled in 2000 and if McCain had run against Gore I would have considered voting for him. As it was, Bush ran against Gore and I had no second thoughts about voting for Gore.
Hey j’avaz and dr’graz, Isn’t it grand that AZ is the #1 topic in the news today? Not for AZ Gov wins Peace Prize or Az Legis, is lauded by Amnesty International… No instead we get this crap. Lucky for you, you have been missing it and enjoying some time with Mother Earth.
I looked up where you war and noticed that you are on a Rez. Do you know what Tribe/Nation it is? The reason, I mention it is because of all the tribes down in SoAz and the immigration situation. Many, if not most, speak Spanish, have Mexican names, and the tribes themselves have cross border populations. Wonder what type of ID they are expected to carry?
Khirad mentioned the other day about missing you AZ stories and links, even though we both live here, you had some good ones.
AZ seemed to be slowly turning purple but now with this, i am afraid you are right about Brewer. They RW here is “inspired” and the Dems are going to have a tough time. And you are right, before this, she would have never won statewide office but now she seems to have become the state’s biggest cheerleader for bigotry.
That mention by you of her consultants and their private prison connections is hardly even noticed. How can one be her Chief-of-Staff, connected to private prisons and push bills through for his benefit? AZ ethics?
I hope when you guys left AZ you remembered to bring along “your papers.” Remember you have to cross the border to home. :-0
Need to clean up the supper dishes. You guys enjoy your selves and have a large time.
Heh, “dry hate”!
As you say, the Repubs want and are forcing the current situation to continue to benefit their corporate owners while stoking the fires of frustration that things aren’t changing.
The bottom line, the Repubs claim they support guest worker programs, so corps can continue to exploit low paid workers but oppose amnesty…which would mean having a slave class of people living in the U.S.
Meanwhile, they BS the Teabaggers that they want to deport 11 million illegal immigrants in the country. How would they do so? What about children born to illegal immigrants in the US with citizenship? How much would it cost to legally deport 11 million people (FYI: it would cost billions just to deport them, not to mention the cost of such a massive disruption in our society)?
The truth is, there is what Repubs want and what they say they want to the idjits that follow them. Their mindless followers lap up their BS like it was sweet, narcotic nectar. And the Repubs, as caught on recordings even recently, refer to their followers as suckers and idiots.