The attack on the Palestinian aid ship may be a turning point for Israel. Many Americans have supported Israel throughout the years, America is Israel’s strongest ally. What has been growing more difficult for many American supporters is the morphing of Israel from a nation that bravely faced its existence being under siege from all directions, to becoming the party that is besieging others.
This unfortunate role reversal places American supporters of Israel in an untenable position. The very principles that justified support of Israel are now more applicable to Palestinians. What is an Israel supporter to do, rationalize why the same principles shouldn’t apply to Palestinians or step back from such strong support of Israel? Or some other alternative?
Each side of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict have valid reasons for feeling how they do. The real story is what the situation and actions as of today reflect about each side. What end game is represented by each side or if one is not discernible, how does the continued death and suffering on both sides characterize each of them?
One need only briefly see video of the suffering and desperation of the Palestinians which this blockade/embargo has created to be outraged. And yet, those ideologues who are leaders of the Palestinians seem to benefit in power, wealth and alliances from the continuation of the situation.
On the other side, Israelis have legit and reasonable concerns about safety but their leaders often pander to fear (sound familiar?) and pursue hostile policies with political dividends for doing so. Netanyahu knows that those who elected him want Israel to be aggressive and unbending towards the Palestinians and he ultimately won re-election by espousing that as his position.
It continues to be an intractable situation that appears most devastating to the Palestinians in day to day life and most devastating to Israel in day to day perception by the world. In the end, can Israel afford to winnow away its support while sympathy for and suffering of the Palestinians grow? Personal feelings aside, can this Israeli policy be successfully sustained indefinitely if it undermines their financial and political support?
The U.S. has serious issues right now economically and with the issue of Muslim terrorism. As Israel continues on such a harsh course, The U.S. is confronted with the impact that its alliance with Israel brings. Might the U.S. be pressed so far by extreme Israeli policies that it may have no choice but to reduce support?
Bottom line, the safety, security and existence of Israelis are absolutely something the U.S. can and should support…but along with the same for Palestinians.
Neither terrorist bombings by Palestinians or Israel attacking ships and killing people in international waters are things that the U.S. should be able to morally support. The U.S. should stand by its friends but it should not compromise its values in the process. Sometimes, when a friend crosses the line, you have to tell them they’re doing the wrong thing. We shouldn’t condone unjustifiable actions no matter who performs them. For instance, the U.S. condemns North Korea for blowing up a South Korean ship in international waters but not Israel for this incident. And what if Palestinians boarded an Israeli ship in international waters and killed some of the people on board? Would the U.S. block a U.N. resolution to condemn in that situation as they have with Israel in this one?
To be clear, the point of this piece is not about taking sides in the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. It is about the U.S. having consistent principles and sticking by them, no matter who the other party is. Perhaps by doing so, we can help influence things to go more in the direction of dialog than death.
Help me out here. It seems to me that the US has been Israel’s benefactor for far to long, even to the peril of our own..I can’t even imagine how those yearly billions (over how many years now, at least a decade, or two) could have helped Americans. But though no one has said it, it would certainly seem like the gravy train is over, finally. We’ll see. Meanwhile, they already had health care for every countryman while we’ve had Americans perish because they were without. Why do we need them again as allies? Seems to me, if your playing fair with everyone, where’s the necessity for an “ally”? Well, Israel continues to alienate all who surround her. I don’t know how that’s working out for them, never been to Israel, but if any of these surrounding countries finally calls “foul” and declares war, this is one American citizen who wants no part of any further support to Israel. And no child of mine will perish fighting a war protecting those who were once oppressed, a very very very long time ago but who now are the oppressors. Fuggedaboutit!
And yet I feel they are winning again.
I’ve shouted at the TV screen before.
But today, spying my hotel’s USA Today story on the flotilla story, I was screaming at a paper!
Jesus Hussein Christ. Would it kill you guys to not be so transparently pro-Israeli?
And the letters-to-the-editor in support of Israel were typical of Low Information analogies.
One tried to say: what would we do if terrorists were coming to America? Wouldn’t you expect the Coast Guard to intercept and kill a few if necessary?
…gawd, how can someone be wrong on so many levels?
And yet, this I fear is still the predominant view.
Wasn’t Netanyahoo a hawk the first go-round? I knew he would pull stuff when I heard he got elected.
He’s such a “hero”. For him, it’s not for the benefit of his country, it’s personal.
He’s been and continues to be a hawk, that’s how he barely won re-election, by preying on the public’s fear and worry about being safe from terrorism.
Netanyahu is the Israeli Bush.
He’ll always be in the shadow of his brother, trying to prove himself.
I am on the same wavelength as MightyWoof. I, too, have supported Israel in it’s endeavors to maintain a homeland of their own for years. With that said, I think it is this new rightist government that is the problem. Netanyahu has been sabre rattling for a few years now. It makes me wonder just how involved the right is with this government? Is there some agreement that was made with the Israelis that would make them act in such a manner and demand the world agree with them?
The Israeli government is holding the people in Gaza hostage much the same as any other country who would oppress it’s neighbor and we would be expected to condemn them. Why would we not condemn Israel just the same? I don’t pretend to know all the ins and outs of the situation but from my vantage point I have to side with the people of Palistine.
All Israel has done with this stunt is to force the Egyptians to open their border. Seems to me this is much more dangerous than any flotilla bringing aid to the people of Gaza
MK Haneen Zoabi of the Balad Party is being accused of supporting terrorists:
This is unsettling. I agree with Prime Minister Dave 100%:
You can almost smell their desperation as they accuse her, the bile just rose to my throat and will stay there no doubt as the Israeli Repugs try to spin their web of deception. This time however they will fail, there were too many international passengers in this group of 600 and as I said in my MB this morning, these people will tell the truth and I for one will believe them over a lying and deceiving government any day.
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Yup, that’s the one, thanks. I’m hoping someone I trust can give me the low down on them – so far I don’t rule out radicalism, but the charges against them – being that was the boat they were most on – smacks of Israel covering their butts. They are a fair sized organization in Turkey, and haven’t been outlawed outside of Israel by the UN or other country, that I know of…
Judging by accounts I have read from European and English nationals on board, most with photos of blue eyed blondes, the Israelis are going to have a very tough time trying to convince anyone that these people who ranged from an ordinary guy from northern England to an author and poet from southern England to an activist from Germany and other European countries, that they were terrorists or connected to any terrorists groups. Good luck with that bibi, be careful your spin machine doesn’t fly off and orbit. As the Brits say, “Pull the other leg mate, it’s got bells on.”
Hi everyone-
My beloved friend, a rabbi who is deeply involved in Mid East peace issues, linked me to the “J Street Lobby”, a Jewish, anti-Zionist and pro-peace lobbying group in Washington. The antithesis of the “K Street lobbyists” (there is no J Street in Washington!) they work to find a solution. Not a common ground or a middle way but a just way.
Here is their statement:
http://jstreet.org/campaigns/in-wake-flotilla-tragedy-j-street-urges-stronger-us-leadership-end-conflict-now
They are mindful that the flotilla MAY have been intentionally provocative. They also find that excuses precisely nothing with respect to Israeli actions. They cast no real stones at the people ON the flotilla who, they agree, were trying seriously to help the Palestinians behind the inhumane blockade.
The world is turning on its axis. Muslims in groups with which I work are constantly denouncing extremism (though the US media rarely report that denunciation. I have BEEN there at unreported press conferences, so I know that to be true.)
Jews are increasingly working for human rights, not Israeli rights alone; peace at any price is not much in favor; Zionism is dwindling.
But the time must come NOW for a two state solution. And there can be no bars and walls and blockades against the people of Palestine to be – they are suffering dreadfully. On the other hand, NO one must EVER forget the Holocaust and the persistence of anti-
Semitism. It is a fact of global life, and Israel must exist to protect a Jewish people whom the world would still drag and away and murder. Even now.
Israel must not, however, become what it abhors. It cannot impose the torture, lack of law, visceral hate that was visited upon their forebears.
We cannot wait. It must end with a two state solution, and the land taken in 1967 and later must be restored. Nothing calms extremism more than nation building. Palestine would not be a threat if their attentions were toward creation rather than retaliation.
And both sides MUST repudiate the Christian extremists! They are the ones stirring the pot! It’s past time for that mystical falsehood of the End Times to dominate global politics! Beware the Family, the New Apostolic Reformation, the Call, the Watchmen on the Wall, Samaritan’s Purse, Joel’s Army, Hagee, and all the rest who come as wolves in sheep’s clothing to kill both Muslim and Jew to fulfill a fanciful prophecy that has no meaning in the world or in faith. It’s time to end the pact between them all.
Question CL: Even if there was a reversion to the 67 borders, and a two state solution was finalized, how would Gazans travel to WB and vice versa?? Through Israel? Why not allow them a contiguous piece of land through which they could travel?
And what about protecting the resources? Qalquilya sits on an aquifer; it has been COMPLETELY walled off by Israel, and pumping stations (on the Israeli side, of course) take the water out. We have photos going to Qalquilya -it makes me weep each time I look at them.
Just wondering what your gorup thinks.
Has anyone here been to Palestine/Israel? If so, where. The Blovicator (my spouse) has, and has a pps that says it all. Maybe we can do a link to it this weekend, for those interested.
AB
PS Nursing one of my Afghans from foot surgery; another coming “home” on Tuesday; another needing help with her housesitting. I’m running ragged, but loving every minute of it and them!!!
Excerpts from an article in today’s NYT:
Well said, AdLib! Principles must flourish, not bias, or even faint hope. Very well said indeed! Thank you!
*Applause*
I’m looking more into IHH. But, from the start they would link to an obscure Danish study that has never really gained traction. Maybe so. But, don’t forget those people like the legislators, the Knesset member and holocaust survivor.
It’s all about smear. And, Israel, I fear, will exaggerate anything at this point for an excuse. I heard two Egyptians may have had tenuous ties to the Muslim Brotherhood as well…
Israel is trying too hard on this. It’s guilt by association, and to mock the “peaceful” protesters for fighting back? Hullo? You committed an act of piracy. What if someone broke into your house and threatened your children?
It reminds me of what the right says about Union toughs – never mentioning historically, why they are needed.
I cannot sort a lot of this out historically because, as boomer points out, it’s the vile side of Hatfield-McCoy – who started what, who hit first, who did what atrocity to whom. I was raised as very pro-Israel by gentile parents with Holocaust consciousness. I was deeply influenced by what I understood to be Israel’s “miracle” defense in ’67, the ’72 Olympics raid and reports of bombings of buses full of children. I was in my 30s before that changed – when I met a woman whose husband was Palestinian. They had been in Lebanon in ’83, and the stories she had to tell me of his family were incredible eye openers. Once I understood the inequalities of power, the actions of Israel, etc., I could no longer have blind loyalty. On the other hand, a woman who supports Palestinian rights blithely told me Israelis had to “get over” the Holocaust – which sent me into a fury, too. No! Not EVER!
I do believe the moral horror of the Holocaust gives Obama one of his strongest points to use – Israel must stop replicating the acts perpetrated so horrifically on Jews. It’s got to be the end. No more torture, ghettoization, ethnic cleansing. No matter what – the nation state of Israel MUST rise to a new level of morality and action and stop these practices. They are no longer victims. They are perpetrators. Obama can build on a moral base as a first step.
Then – and I think I’m right about this – Israel must break off with Christian Zionists who, I strongly suspect, are largely behind the blockade, the fear mongering about Hamas, and the refusal to achieve a 2-state solution, especially with a shared tripartite Jerusalem. I wonder if Israel would have descended so far into the dark side of torture and violence without these evil people whispering in their ears and providing large sums of money for arms.
I may be over-reacting to the influence of the Christian Dominionists, but I think their influence IN Israel is huge. So we might need to confront this in the US before we can make a dent in Israel. And I think blood will be shed here for our defiance. These people are NOT giving up power easily!
I’ve said the same cl. but not as well. Thank you for making a lone, almost lone, voice sing. On MB yesterday I pointed out that with their treatment of the Palestinians, the Israelis were becoming the people they most hated. They built their own concentration camps in Gaza, even in the West Bank and became to some extent the Nazis they have hated for so long. I make no excuses for my choice of words, this is how I observe their actions especially after the last war with Lebanon.
David and Goliath, who in their right minds could respect the giant?
I will try to stop with this subject now before the repression, blackmailing and oppression to speak as you feel is lifted from your politics, your conscience, and your guilt ridden shores. Surely there are more worthy causes to feel guilty about?
I feel so awfully sad for America today, oh and yesterday too. Please prosecute BP for the rest of the ailing world, they also need this too wherever BP drilled holes in this shared earth of ours.
Cheers cl for all you do to make this a better place.
In all due respect I have to wince when people compare the Palestinian occupation to Nazi concentrations camps K. I think that just goes too far because Israel is not practicing the systematic adroit extermination of any one group like the Nazis did in the concentration camps.
The way Nazis set up the slums in Warsaw is much more similar to what Israel has done with the Palestinian territories and Gaza. Israel is trying to make the Palestinians loss a war of attrition through poverty and hunger and yes with periodic deadly clamp downs on Palestinian citizens.
I’m not trying to argue moral equivalence both acts are immoral. I’m just saying one act is more immoral and should not be compared to the other. I know we are just arguing difference in degrees but I think they are wide enough to debate.
Most importantly your fundamental point is correct. The Israeli government is acting very much like the Nazis did and they should know better from the brutalities they faced when they were the powerless.
Yes K, your last paragraph sums it up and I didn’t mean to imply that it was the same, just from a distance that it looked similar. When the oppressed become the oppressors you have to wonder why they can’t see this for themselves and if I can see it, so can others.
Have spent the day reading excuses and downright lies coming from the government and the military there. They did something wrong, to own up and apologize for a change would be something new, but they never do.
Just to prove my point, here is an example of the propaganda we will be hearing from their government, the latest. It makes me so mad.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/10219391.stm
My use of ghetto is very intentional. However; I think the Israeli flags with swastikas are over-the-top. I said so ‘over there’ the other day. You’re not winning over any Israelis with that. Yes, you’re trying to be ironic, but it is inflammatory and designed to get a response. Maybe the Prinsevlag would be more appropriate, but Israel is not systematically putting any Arabs in ovens.
When you have to bring Nazis into it, you weaken your point. I think Kalima would have some leeway to use it as a comparison, though – and, from my visit to the Holocaust Museum, I have to admit the propaganda from Israel is chillingly similar… It remains relevant as a point that they should know better than anyone what it feels like to be on the other side and marginalized, and worse.
Still, I find Apartheid South Africa my preference. Someone actually tried to argue me that there weren’t terrorists in that though… Yeah buddy, and India was freed by Gandhi alone, too. Sure.
History is a little more complex than that.
K and KQ – I think there are deep similarities to the Irish “question” (which it wasn’t to the Irish!). Michael Hechter’s book, Internal Colonialism looked at a situation very similar with respect to the British treatments of the Irish – up to and including starving them to death during the potato famine. Meat and other goods that might have saved lives were blockaded. And from that you raise up, quite predictably, armed resistance that evolved into the IRA of our times.
History notes that unless you DO impose genocide, colonial masters cannot win this. And the legacy of genocide itself ultimately defeats the master anyway. From Rome to the present, the tactic of oppression, even without genocide, simply does not work.
Israel is in massive decline as Jews and gentiles alike rally against the Zionism of its conservatives.
What alarms me is the role people such as Franklin Graham and Hagee and other Christian Zionists play in the persistence of our pro-Israel policies. Never forget that Hillary is an admirer of Doug Coe, leader of The Family who see Israel NOT as a manifestation of prophecy (I don’t think they really believe one damned thing) but of neo-conservative control of the resources and tactical space of the Mid East they wish to dominate. Even if Obama stands by the call for an investigation of this incident, I wonder if Hillary can get the words out of her mouth? Whom does she serve? Coe or the country?
It may turn out that this assault on the flotilla is a major turning point. Israel’s “bridge too far” that set most of the world – and I think most of liberal America – against their tactics and bullheaded assault on Muslims.
I hope this is an important historical moment and that cooler heads both here and in Israel will move to the higher ground and begin working on a two state solution. And then – throw the Christian radicals seeking ownership of Israel OUT.
I’ve stayed out of this debate mostly because my attachments are purely emotional. My committment to Israel came from growing up in the UK and hearing stories of the horrors visited on Jewish people during WW2 and was firmly committed to their right to have a homeland from which they would never be driven and would never have to experience such horrors again. I cheered Israel on through the 6 day war, the massacre in Munich and the raid on Entebbe among all the other ‘heroic’ deeds that small and beleaguered nation had to perform to struggle among a sea of hostility.
I hung onto that even when they started bulldozing Palestinian homes but was finding it harder to view that nation as being heroic or even righteous. I found it hard, but managed anyway, to justify their shelling of Lebanon by agreeing that Israel couldn’t stand by while they were being shelled and the other side was hiding among civilians. Now I don’t know what to think any more. The whole establishment of Israel, if it was done today, would immediately delegitimize it as a nation …. you cannot, as much as you empathize with a people who have suffered so much for so long, just carve out territory and say ‘here you go, have this land – oh, and by the way, don’t worry about the locals, they’ll get used to it’. No wonder the Palestinians are mad as hell – so now my sympathies are split. I’m sorry for both sides and I’m mad as hell at both sides.
There just is no easy solution to this terrible dilemma and there is no solution until both sides want it …. all US Presidents who tried, have failed and, with all respect to Pres. Obama, I don’t think he will succeed where his predecessors could not.
There was an Israeli peace activist, I forget his name, who wrote about an experience he had at a kibbutz. He was talking of peace and reconciliation and all that good stuff.
One of the leaders, a stony man, took him on a walk to the edges of the kibbutz and pointed to an area now overgrown with brush. The guy didn’t know what he was looking at.
And then, he saw the outlines of stones, where a village had been. The stony faced man said matter-of-factly that this is why there can’t be peace. That we took this from them, and (I believe Moshe Dayan said something to this effect, as well) of course they’re mad as hell. You would be too.
At the suggestion that they simply invite the Arab families driven off to live there again, the director’s eyes got incredulously wide as if to say: you gotta fuckin’ be kidding me, right? They would kill us in a heartbeat.
My problem is that I understand the homeland thing. But, the whole creation of this land remains really sketchy to me.
Why couldn’t they have lived as a productive minority, as Jews always do? Perhaps the lessons of history had taught them well there. Even so, why did they need so much land? Why not Tel Aviv?
I of course get the Israeli point of view. Brought up in the West it’s the only side you’re fed.
But, though it may be clich
I couldn’t have put it better Khirad – a European colonial outpost! And I totally agree with what you have said. I’m finding it hard to let go of my sentimental attachment to the notion of ‘plucky little Israel’ but their actions over the last two decades are driving people like me away – I’m not yet way over on the other side but I’m sure firmly in the middle in a ‘pox on both your houses’ mood.
Nah, I’m a pox on both your houses, too. Hamas are nuts and Fatah, corrupt. This leaves al-Badeel, The Alternative bloc of left-wing parties for me to sympathize with.
In Israel, even Labor supporters see little wrong with “protecting Israel” and I wish they would have a wake-up moment similar to our opposition to Iraq or Guant
Here is what the other side is saying, I found this place by accident a few months ago. The RW propaganda rivals the Nazi propaganda machine. Not pleasant especially the comments, the lies are incredible though and how lazy people are easily mislead because they are too dumb to dig for actual facts.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=37281
I’m about talked out on this subject from ‘over there’ taking on Hasbara’s D-crew. Y’all probably know how I feel about this.
If you don’t somehow know my full opinions, this of all the articles I’ve read sums up my view best:
Israel’s latest brutal blunder
By Stephen M. Walt
http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/05/31/israels_latest_brutal_blunder
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America’s and Obama’s world credibility are on the line. Does America have values? Does it mean to start a new dialog with the Muslim World? Or will it be taken down by a liability based on nostalgia more than strategic import? Or will it be a true friend to Israel by checking it into “rehab” and pushing it away until it corrects its self-destructive behavior?
This botched Israeli operation only underscores the heavy-handed approach given to Palestians all this time. Maybe since Americans and Europeans were involved we might care this time? Not from seeing Chris Matthews swallow IDF propaganda, et al…
Oh, and notice how the AP still says that Hamas seized control in all these stories?
We have no propaganda. 😆
This blockade is a political act, set up after Hamas “seized” control (never mind the US involvement with Fatah there). In other words, the wrong party won control in elections.
Israel thinks the people will turn on Hamas rather than the country to blame. This in turn strengthens Hamas, which strengthens Israeli hardliners alike, and so on.
This blockade is wrong. It violates the Geneva Convention and punishes a whole people by creating a ghetto.
Since 2001, 23 people have been killed by Qassam rockets. This was the purported reason behind the blockade.
How many Palestinian women and children has Israel killed, both directly and indirectly?
How dare this flotilla raise the profile of that broader topic with this “publicity stunt” says Israel.
Oh, sorry. We’re all just supposed to trust Israel… right.
War is just another form of show business.
Imagine Ethel Merman as General Petraeus:
“The uniforms, the scenery, the camouflage, the guns!
The blackhawks that airlift you when you’re on the run!
The headaches, amputations, the backaches, the dead!
The sergeant who’s screaming “get out of bed”
The opening rounds when your heart beats like a drum
See the fallen and the wounded that are all around
Theeeeeeere’s no business
Like war business
Like no business I know
Everything about it is appalling
Everything the planet will allow (doo waah aah)
Nowhere could you have that sinking feeling
When there are always
Nu-cle-ar bombs
There’s no people like war people
They lie, cheat, and they know
Yesterday they told you you would not get far
By night you open fire and there you are
Next day on your gurney you see a bronze star
Let’s go on with the show
Let’s go on with the shooooooowwww!”
Amazing adaptation, Questinia! I hope there’s some way to get that version out in the world! Maybe you could sell it to the Capitol Steps – sounds like it’s right up their alley. I think it’s precisely the disconnect between the original and this that would make people THINK about how casually we kill in the name of peace. Wow = thank you!
😆 Brilliant Questinia!!! Loved it!
As for Ethel Merman as Gen. Petraeus and showtunes in the military, we may have to wait until DADT is gone.
Adlib you bring up a good point that the Obama is between it.
I also did not vote for Obama to act on emotion without proper consideration. If I wanted knee jerk responses the other candidate would have been my choice. The US is in a unique roll, especially with Israel and the Palestinians. Our response has to be more muted and considerate because the only country that can bring the Israelis and the Palestinians to the table is the US. So all the people that want Obama to say “we are all Palestinians now” that is nonsense.
Now behind closed doors that’s another thing. We’ve already seen a much tougher diplomatic effort with Israel compared to the last few presidencies.
I came across this interesting blog on the Atlantic. The reporter talked to an Israeli general.
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2010/06/says-one-israeli-general-everybody-thinks-were-bananas/57514/
I look at it this way Israeli foreign policy has always been ruthless when it came to self defense, but they were smart. Now with the right wing in control of the government for so many years I think it has become stupid as well.
First lesson Israel should have learned in Special Ops 101.
Precisely K.
Thanks for the comic relief.
A little “black op” humor on a serious situation.
I second dildenusa, thanks for the diversion KQ!
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Yup I saw the video before the image as well. I think it really showed how stupid Israel acted not just strategically by authorizing the attack but with the tactics they used.
Exactly.
Thats really funny, sick, but funny.
You said it all very concisely, KQ. So true.
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This just appeared on MSNBC.
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/06/01/a-regional-strategy-implodes.html
It’s obvious that Netanyahu not only took the bait, but swallowed it whole while the Palistinians took pictures of the big fish they landed. One wonders what Obama’s options are now. I see him and Netanyahu both in a corner. Obama being a “pragmatist” will see his way out through concilliation, however, Netanyahu will lose face if he doesn’t appear “tough.”
The ironic part was Netanyahu was just declaring victory last week for stubbornly standing by more Israeli settlements in the occupied territories. Rigidity always looks politically tougher but never solves any problems.
For politicians of all stripes, hypocrisy is like mother’s milk. They will gorge themselves on it and then smile and say, “I’m a pragmatist.”
For the Israelis to cause the impoverishment of the entire Palistinian people as a punishment for a few bad apples is immoral. And for the politicians here not to call them on this is aiding and abetting.
Yes dildenusa, I totally agree.
Agreed. I would add that many compassionate and peace-loving Israelis and Palestinians are unfairly characterized by the aggression of their leaders.
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That was then, this is now and people are not as gullible as you think. I have always felt compassion for Israel in the past, but it’s not as if they are innocent of any crimes against humanity and that’s for sure. They treat the Palestinians worse than they would treat their own cattle. What have the Palestinian children and babies done to them in the past to lock them in their own concentration camps, wandering in other countries, never being able to come home or have a home, if it sounds familiar, it should.
This is an international problem, not just an American one. We chose to condemn, you chose to look the other way.
If we make this all about the past, then may I suggest your own country’s history, starting with the Native Americans and then the slavery issues. We all have a history in our respective countries, whether you believe that Turkey’s motives are purely selfish or not, at least they tried to do something, and how many countries can you list who would do anything for absolutely nothing in return?
Very interesting perspective BT. I have to admit my knee jerk reaction was the white hat black hat response you mentioned. I still think Israel acted far too aggressively but I can see where it could have been a trap set by Turkey. Within NATO Turkey has behaved much better but that is not a big leap considering the atrocities it performed in the past.
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I did not think you were defending Israel. I appreciated your post because it broadened my view on the situation. I was originally looking at the situation without considering Turkey’s intent. I just restated my opinion and probably should have made the distinction more clearly.
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It is a pisser that Israel’s played into the hands of the antisemitic types and now they can feel validated in spouting hatred towards Jews.
However, in reality where the rest of us live, condemning this action by the Israelis, doesn’t automatically make the Turks “the good guys”.
You are absolutely right, Turkey has been and is becoming more of a religiously dominated, Muslim state which is really too bad. Was there a political calculation in this effort by Turkey? I think that is kind of inescapable.
Even if it was primarily intended to goad Israel into overreacting, Turkey can say they were only trying to get food and aid to people in great need.
Judo teaches that one can defeat an opponent by using their opponent’s weight against themselves. As long as Israel’s military is so aggressive, such scenarios as this and the 2006 Israeli-Lebanon War could indeed be plotted to lure Israel into situations that damage it.
Another good reason for Israel to find non-military solutions to resolving the Palestinian situation.
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I haven’t been watching the MSM as much, didn’t know they were portraying Turkey as “good guys”. However, this is the simplicity and brilliance of such a tactic, planning on Israel to overreact is unfortunately a good bet.
As for getting aid to Palestinians through channels, there aren’t any really. That’s what this blockade by Israel is all about.
They are trying to inflict suffering upon the Palestinian people so that they turn on Hamas as their leadership for bringing this hell upon them.
Instead, this has worked in reverse, Hamas has become more embraced and supported by Palestinians who would otherwise not be as supportive of them because they are “standing up” to Israel.
This blockade strategy should be abandoned, it is and continues to be disastrous.
I left a link this morning which stated that Egypt and Israel were loosening the blockade restrictions a little. Funny how this can never happen until innocent people are killed and most of the world declares it’s outrage. Like putting make-up on a dead person.
I must have been dreaming, I read it last night but didn’t post it.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_israel_palestinians
What? The Ashdod line? Yes, it was all about the blockade.
How about someone blockade Israel already!
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Okay, but I’m a little testy. I’ve been hearing a similar talking point for days now.
I don’t think this was a faux humanitarian event, though I do believe Turkey was playing their own angle among the many, many, many nationalities, by helping make it happen. I also think Rachel Corrie was na