Vox Populi – 12-18-09

nellie : Thank you, everyone!

bitohistory : Hiip-Hipp Horay for nellie, and all

PatsyT : thank you nellie

nellie : THAT’S ALL FOR VOX POPULI BUT WE”RE MOVING OVER TO THE POST, PLEASE JOIN US THERE! HERE’S THE LINK AGAIN: «link»

nellie : Agreed Patsy.

kesmarn : As they say at the seance….I’ll see you all on the “other side”…

PatsyT : nellie sites like this can be part of the the answer other sites started small nudge nudge wink hp

kesmarn : TRP You are right!

nellie : no problem — good comments!

TheRarestPatriot : Ooopp, sorry nellie

TheRarestPatriot : The web is just so murky anymore. especially as evidenced by HP and the degradation of content and actual news for a sexier payoff….

kesmarn : nellie, and we need reporters who really dig. Not just copy/paste what comes over the wires. It’s down to a handful of reporters who shape the news.

nellie : OKAY FELLOW PLANETARIANS, OUR EVENT IS ENDING! THANK YOU ALL FOR A VERY STIMULATING AND SUCCESSFUL SESSION OF VOX POPULI! WE CAN CONTINUE THE DISCUSSIONS AT THE RELATED POST WHICH YOU CAN GO TO THROUGH THIS LINK: «link»

nellie : That’s the answer, Kalima!

Kalima : Patsy, more people should read the PlanetPOV.

nellie : going w the sensational stories

nellie : But it seems so many “news” sites are doing the same thing as tv

nellie : If we can get sites to really go through the newspapers carefully and pull out the good articles, that would be great

bitohistory : Kersmarn, Yep

PatsyT : the web will have to fill the void – just how can it be better organized?

kesmarn : b’ito! Say it ain’t so!

bitohistory : and this is Moyers last year

PatsyT : ethics in journalism ha fairness doctrine

Kalima : Everyone takes my money with a smile.

TheRarestPatriot : …and they expect your vote next election, too

nellie : And never get punished for it

bitohistory : Kalima crooks may take your money, but crooked politicions do it with a smile

kesmarn : Journalistic ethics–whathehe ll happened??

PatsyT : stories that keep us in the dark & confused so we tune in again tomorrow- so true nellie

Kalima : Well I’ve been popping in and out. Back to my cleaning. See you in a bit.

TheRarestPatriot : Only 2 media people I ever trusted…and was never let down by…Charles Kuralt and Cronkite…

kesmarn : Patsy, Moyers’ documentation is excellent, too!

PatsyT : kersmarn true that on bill moyers one of the only sane voices

nellie : TRP — that’s a good way to put it

bitohistory : there are many senators that can take the money and still vote for the people, only a few don’t, and that is where we get screwed

nellie : It seems they look for the stories that will keep the public most uninformed!

TheRarestPatriot : I hate crooks with political motives and, yes, vice versa….

kesmarn : OOps. Meant to say people can NOT focus for a Moyers show!

PatsyT : MSM right now are all tiger ed up They are a little to weak no cronkites!

Kalima : I hate crooks but I hate crooked politicians even more.

kesmarn : People like Bill Moyers report on the dirty dealings, but the tea baggers never even see it. Nor a lot of center-type people, either. It’s like they can focus for the length of a Moyers show.

PatsyT : house represents the majority and the senate ??? they are behind – lagging indicators!

nellie : And a good bill, too

nellie : true Patsy

PatsyT : It is the senate that is the trouble right now- if it was up to the house we would have health care right now

kesmarn : Right, Kalima. It’s all about the $$$

bitohistory : Patsy ads? where is the MSM on reporting it now?

kesmarn : Yes, nellie. No breaks.

Kalima : kesmarn, bought and paid for.

nellie : I think if people are going to filibuster, they should have to stand in the well and talk.

kesmarn : b’ito. That’s depressing. Maybe the filibuster needs to be re-worked somehow.

PatsyT : I think of the campaign ads that can be made against repubs for being such total obstructionists not wanting to govern

Kalima : That’s my point, they are “supposed” to.

bitohistory : Kersarn, they are are on pace to break that record

kesmarn : Kalima, more & more they seem to work for Wall St. and the insurance industry.

nellie : well, they’re supposed to represent us

Kalima : Nellie on this they should, don’t they work for you?

bitohistory : nellie dems never do

kesmarn : b’ito, I had not seen that 159 figure. That’s appalling. They surely do play dirty.

nellie : Dems don’t agree w each other, that’s the problem.

Kalima : Well there seem to be more of the cry of “I won’t vote.”

bitohistory : It takes 67 votes to change the rules (?)

PatsyT : Dems need to pull together and get on with it they were not elected to fail

kesmarn : It’s tough to know what to do to get the Repubs under control, though. They have just enough Congress people to be formidable.

TheRarestPatriot : wow

bitohistory : It was used 159 times by the rethugs last session

nellie : It’s hard for me to believe the country would give congress back to the GOP so soon after Bush.

Kalima : Nellie, if the Dems don’t pull their socks up, it could be a majority of Repubs next year.

kesmarn : I read somewhere that the filibuster was extremely rare until 2006, when the Repubs started using/threatenin g constantly.

PatsyT : Can the filibuster be tied more into the majority rule ?

TheRarestPatriot : Dems are far too polite and self effacing to use it….(ie: last Admin)

nellie : I think it would be easy to get rid of it — but some people still think it’s an important safeguard. What if the majority were GOP?

bitohistory : it is not so much the rule 22 as is the abuse of its use

kesmarn : How much travail would there be in dumping it?

TheRarestPatriot : I’ll just stick with the obvious maybe….Teddy K.

PatsyT : How can the Fillbuster be what american people want when majority pick an canadiate this just gives the minority a way out NO MAJORITY RULE

bitohistory : S’arah would frost the rethugs and dems alike.

nellie : It can be changed

nellie : It’s a senate rule

kesmarn : Dumb question…is the filibuster just a custom? Or is it written in some unchangeable document somewhere?

Kalima : TRP, thanks, I’ll tell him when he stumbles home.

PatsyT : can we just stop the repubs?

TheRarestPatriot : This has been a weird year ALL around, yeah?…This is a toughie…so, Kalima’s husband…

PatsyT : OK well on the fill o buster

nellie : lol, Kalima

kesmarn : Kalima…awwwwww www!

Kalima : I nominate my hubby.

PatsyT : Only some can make that case for Sarah

kesmarn : True, nellie…in the negative sense!

nellie : There’s a strong case for Joe, too

nellie : I think a case could be made for Sarah

PatsyT : She is having a great year – She got the easy job

TheRarestPatriot : Hmmm….Joe Lieberman?

Kalima : Yes why Hilary?

nellie : Hi TRP — we’re discussing who should be person of the year

bitohistory : Amad dinner jacket.

kesmarn : She’s not S’arah?

TheRarestPatriot : DANG! My power went out and just now came back on! Grrrr~

nellie : Why Hillary

PatsyT : Hillary person of the year

kesmarn : NOW I get it! Obama!

nellie : Who should be PERSON OF THE YEAR

kesmarn : LOL I though you meant who should be Fed Chair, not who should be Person of the Year!!

nellie : I could go with that, bito

bitohistory : All right nellie, we choose PLANET POV>

PatsyT : back

kesmarn : I’d like to see the Repubs actually pushed to DO the real filibuster. Let the American public see ’em for what they are.

bitohistory : Look at Greenspan, he thought he was sooo right. We do not just need regulations, we need regulators

nellie : OUR FINAL TOPIC FOR THE EVENING: SENATOR BEN NELSON IS THREATENING TO FILIBUSTER THE HEALTH CARE BILL OVER ABORTION. JOE LIEBERMAN THREATENS TO FILIBUSTER ANY HEALTH CARE LEGISLATION. LAST NIGHT, REPUBLICANS TRIED TO FILIBUSTER FUNDING FOR THE TROOPS IN A CYNICAL MOVE TO SLOW DOWN HEALTH CARE REFORM. THIS WEEK PAUL KRUGMAN COMPARED THE FILIBULSTER TO BLACKMAIL. EZRA KLEIN CALLED IT HOSTAGE TAKING. QUESTION: HAS THE FILIBUSTER OUTLIVED ITS USEFULNESS? ARE THERE REASONS TO KEEP IT?

nellie : If no one has an alternative choice for person of the year, I’m going to move on to the next topic.

bitohistory : Patsy, well according to my invesment person….lol

PatsyT : be back in ten minutes

PatsyT : Where would be if we had repubs in office ??

PatsyT : Who CAN do that job ? you just can not go to the local headhunter for that

nellie : Time Mag said Ben had steered us away from a global depression.

bitohistory : Why is Ben for the scape goat? Shrub et al

nellie : Who would you have chosen instead?

kesmarn : oops. phone call. back ASAP!

PatsyT : Ben- man of the year, Obama -Nobel Peace Prize Kinda funny

kesmarn : Patsy–I can’t stand Shelby.

nellie : This year, it was awarded as praise.

kesmarn : True, b’ito. They award that for negative–but big–impact, too.

PatsyT : kersmarn LOL funny -anything shelby is for I am against

bitohistory : being chose man of the year is not always praise

PatsyT : Well on Ben, if that many people around you are making that much $$ are you going to be the one to tell them to stop?? He needs to go and sin no more you know like in the catholic church, make it right

kesmarn : On Beranke: I saw Sen Shelby vigorously arguing against his re-appointment! That convinced me he must be the right man for the job!

Kalima : Organize a march on Washington DC.

nellie : ON TO OUR NEXT TOPIC: FED CHAIRMAN BEN BERNANKE HAS JUST BEEN NAMED TIME MAGAZINE’S PERSON OF THE YEAR FOR 2009. SUPPORTERS SAY BERNANKE LED THE EFFORT THAT SAVED THE WORLD ECONOMY. CRITICS SAY HE SHOULD HAVE FORESEEN THE FINANCIAL MELTDOWN AND DONE SOMETHING TO STOP IT. QUESTION: DO YOU AGREE WITH TIME’S CHOICE? IF SO, WHY? IF NOT, WHY NOT, AND WHO WOULD YOU CHOOSE INSTEAD?

PatsyT : Flood the airwaves with you tubes that contain FACTS unlike the teabaggies

kesmarn : I saw a suggestion of a massive DC demo in January. But how many have the work situation, the cash and the health to be in DC on the streets in the winter?

nellie : LOL, Patsy! Any GOP senate seats that we’re challenging this next election

PatsyT : bito good idea lots of you tubes !!

kesmarn : So–he may be a totally lost cause regardless, anyway?

bitohistory : What can we do? some things don’t change. take to the streets. The only thing that gets on tv is visual

PatsyT : It is a shame we need this joe

nellie : He just said this week that he wouldn’t rule out the possibility of running as a Republican next time.

kesmarn : The problem with Joe L. is that we don’t just need him on this battle. We’re gonna need him later, too. So–how to discipline him without alienating him over to the Repubs even more?

PatsyT : but we have to have the foundation to start.

PatsyT : The way Harkin described this is that we can build on it

nellie : That’s true. Obama/Clinton is a good role model. Where do we start?

PatsyT : If progressives can fix this it will be a further reason of why we should be in charge just like Hillary and Obama came together- can we use that as an example

kesmarn : That’s a tough one. I understand where Dean is coming from and I don’t think even Obama is offended. Someone needed to say it.

bitohistory : Patsy, losing any progress will prove to be regressive.

Questinia : Obama should have treated Lieberman like Franken treated Lieberman… not given him an extra minute of time

nellie : We’re discussing whether there’s a way for progressives to get together on these issues where a lot of people feel disappointed.

nellie : Thank you!

kesmarn : Hi, nellie, good to see you as C in C here tonight!

nellie : Is there a way for progressives to mend this rift within their own ranks?

PatsyT : Hi Kesmarn

nellie : Hi Kesmarn!

kesmarn : Hi, friends! Finally made it over here.

PatsyT : Bito you are right progress is progressive

nellie : That’s a good question Patsy T

nellie : It seems we’re all in agreement here that a lot of progressives have unrealistic expectations.

PatsyT : How can we help our Pres.?

bitohistory : do we expect Obama to be alwys on the campaign?

Kalima : Talk to them to reassure them that change takes time.

PatsyT : I love Dean but they should not be haveing these differences

nellie : So how should the president deal with the fact that some of his supporter feel betrayed?

PatsyT : Yes I noticed how on his acceptance speech he was very serious he can not do it alone

bitohistory : Dean may be playing the Devil’s advocate

Kalima : Patsy, he did say that he couldn’t do it alone.

nellie : Do you think Dean is acting like a fair weather friend?

PatsyT : Obama needs more then fair weather friends he needs an army of us working our tails off.

bitohistory : progress is progressive

nellie : FOR OUR FIRST TOPIC: HOWARD DEAN AND MARKOS MOULITSAS ARE BOTH SAYING IT’S TIME TO SCRAP THE CURRENT SENATE BILL BECAUSE IT IS TOO COMPROMISED. A NATIONAL POLL SHOWS 63% OF DEMOCRATS THINK THE PRESIDENT DIDN’T FIGHT LIEBERMAN HARD ENOUGH. A CLIMATE AGREEMENT WAS JUST REACHED THAT WILL ALLOW THE EARTH’S TEMPERATURE TO RISE BY 2 DEGREES CELSIUS. THE QUESTION: IS THE IDEA THAT WE SHOULDN’T LET THE PERFECT BE THE ENEMY OF THE GOOD GUTTING THE PROGRESSIVE AGENDA?

nellie : Hi Kalima. Let’s see if a few more people will arrive.

bitohistory : All Caps for you nellie

PatsyT : Hi Nellie

Kalima : That was Hello, hello?

nellie : Hi all! Welcome to Vox Populi! Please say hi when you arrive so we know who’s here!

PatsyT : Ok this is working

nellie : Sorry guys, I was locked out for a moment.

nellie : Here I am!

nellie : I’m locked out

Kalima : Hell hello?

bitohistory : nelie, where are you?

AdLib : Welcome to Vox Populi! We’ll begin at 7:00 PM PST. We have a special guest Moderator tonight, Nellie! (BIG ROUND OF APPLAUSE FOR HER) Please follow her lead on changing topics and any and all requests, when doing so she will TYPE IN ALL CAPS. Sorry I can’t join you tonight but have a great conversation and see you tomorrow!