Debate for 11-13-09:

Did Democrats compromise too much on the Health Care Bill?

Debating:

Pro: KarateKid
Con: KQuark

  • nellie : Moving to the thread now… see y’all there 

  • AdLib : The Event is closed, please join us at the post on the debate, click this link to go there: «link»

  • KQuark : The first SS bill was barely a passable bill. Actually worse than some of the compromises now, even the Stupak amendment. It expressly discriminated.

  • nellie : The antitrust exemption portion of this bill is very important — that will address costs in a moderate way.

  • KevenSeven : Yes, KQ’s allusions to Social Security was persuasive.

  • AdLib : Last call, closing the event. Click the following link to continue at the post: «link»

  • KarateKid : To be honest with y’all, after the first few comments when I got the drift of what this debate was turning into, I didn’t see much of what KQ was saying because I was typing too furiously.

  • Athena : OK, Kev7, you are right about that. Cost containment will not be acheived until the profit in health care becomes non-profit.

  • KQuark : I’m drinking sake again.

  • KevenSeven : KK, I know we are on the same side, but accusing people of betraying the sisterhood is not persuasive with me.

  • javaz : Switching now to see what’s going on in the homepage, but KQuark, how could you, being a liberal, support a bill that is the beginning to overturning Roe vs Wade?

  • Lance : Well K7 you are right about that. But of course once it’s a totally socialist system we can change the model from fee for service to a patient outcome one eh?

  • AdLib : Folks, the conversation can continue right now at our post on the Home page: «link»

  • KQuark : I think voting for nothing will be a boon for Goldman Sachs.

  • Khirad : Indeed KQ, historical perspective.

  • KevenSeven : Lance! Don’t spell my name correctly! You have outed me!

  • nicole473 : nellie, agreed.

  • AdLib : Okay, thank you everyone for helping us debut this new feature. I’m going to be closing this event now, head on over to the post.

  • nellie : Doing nothing — I don’t see the advantage in it. For anyone.

  • Khirad : Agreed escribacat: that was a good point too.

  • KQuark : There are many misconceptions about how bold FDR was.

  • KevenSeven : Athena, why is the bill no good? because it does not address cost containment worth a good goddam. ONe third of the dollars that we spend on health care is wasted, and almost none of that is considered in this bill. And while I like the idea of everybody getting access, I also like the idea of containing the costs.

  • nicole473 : KQ, I pronounce you the winner of the right side. :lol:

  • Lance : There is no good argument for doing nothing.

  • KarateKid : I’m gonna get another beer. LMAO

  • escribacat : I want a bill but that was the best argument I’ve heard for not doing a bill.

  • KQuark : I’m fighting not to change the status quo. I think I’ve been unfairly accused.

  • Khirad : KQ, I liked the Social Security argument.

  • KarateKid : escrib, and it would be bipartisan, at least more than this one is.

  • Lance : Kevin, it is just SO much fun watching liberals tearing at each other. I work with mostly conservative people so I rarely get to have this kind of entertainment.

  • escribacat : KK: I thought your best point was that we could pass pre-existing and other laws without a big bill.

  • KQuark : I think it’s only a passable too because good for me would be a public plan for everyone.

  • KarateKid : K7, it isn’t about winning or losing for me, its about getting both viewpoints out there for everyone to consider. We are all on the same side, no?

  • javaz : Kquark, have you lost your way, in that you think all people deserve rights, and women? How could fight against women’s rights?

  • bitohistory : Yes adlib please move

Khirad

 Move.

AdLib

 escrib: I’m totally cool with it either way, want to make this better and better.

Athena

 Keven7, you say the bill is not a good one, why not?

nicole473

 move to the post preferred, adlib

KevenSeven

 Lance, you having fun?

AdLib

 QUESTION TO MEMBERS: I was going to end this chat at 8 pm, how many would like to continue or would prefer to move over to the post I’ve put up on the debate?

escribacat

 Adlib you know I’m just giving you shit rigtht

KevenSeven

 KK, you know I love you and all, but you really did not win this debate, not even. I was with you for a bit. But when you write of throwing women under the bus and shit, you lose me. KQ did not write the amendment, and he did not support it, he just recognized that it is a part of what is happening.

nicole473

 JAVAZ, that is wrong.

nellie

 The cost will be less than your current premiums, according to the Washington Post, and for those who can’t afford any coverage, there are subsidies provided for in the bill.

PatsyT

 excribacat has a great point about the box and font

Lance

 Health Insurance Companies. 23rd most profitable industry in America. Spends 80% on health care and 3% on dividends for its stockholders. That leaves 17% for Executive pay and all those EX-doctors deciding that KQ’s heart condition should prevent him from having insurance.

KQuark

 I’m defending myself.

escribacat

 Adlib: excuses excuses

javaz

 I think Kquark is a Liberal, yes? From his argument, I hated him. and I know that was wrong. but jeepers.

KQuark

 I like that we have more Dems in congress but I would like more progressive Dems. The plan was to get conservative Dems out of Repub districts but how do we get more progressive Dems out of moderate districts?

KarateKid

 AdLib, there should be another debate on this after the whole thing is done, it would be a more substantive debate. And my biggest nightmare for my President is to have to choose between reform and women.

nicole473

 KQ, thank you for defending the uninsured, 45000 of them die EVERY FREAKING YEAR.

AdLib

 escrib: Don’t know if I can change the font, larger font would put us back in the same situation where the box wouldn’t be able to display as many comments even if enlarger. I’ll play with it.

escribacat

 What I don’t know is how much is it going to cost me to buy insurance…that ‘s t he big question for me.

nellie

 Congress is no longer paying attention to us, unless we’re on the phone to them. They know they MUST pass something, and they will.

Athena

 If the public option is for the self employed. The self employeed have virtually no reasonably priced options at this time, right. So if the bill solves this problem it is worthwhile.

Athena

 If the public option is for the self employed. The self employeed have virtually no reasonably priced options at this time, right. So if the bill solves this problem it is worthwhile.

javaz

 karate kid, you did great, but being a woman, I was shouting, screaming at my computer!

nicole473

 I didn’t bring up a div & conquer theory, Adlib. I said that the insurance companies want us to do what we are doing. In-fighting and eventually we will just stop and give up. No bill. Ins. cos. happy.

Khirad

 AdLib: or more interested in keeping his local seat.

escribacat

 Adlib: I suggest a bigger font size and a bigger(longer) box.

KQuark

 Yup.

KevenSeven

 Lance has a point, don’t kiss and make up. Move on!

AdLib

 Escrib, don’t know but may be able to enlarge the box by next week.

Lance

 I think Stupak is more ProLife than Pro Democrat but who knows.

KarateKid

 Lance, that’s what a debate is all about, when two people are passionate about their views.

javaz

 wow, this is an awesome thing?

KQuark

 I’m going blind myself.

AdLib

 Nicole: My curiosity is at this “divide and conquer” suggestion against a Dem. That would mean Stupak is against the Dems keeping control of the House?

nellie

 Oh sweetie, keven!

KQuark

 It’s allot better than 70% though.

escribacat

 Adlib: any way to make the chat box bigger??

KevenSeven

 Nellie may disagree with me but she is still the best!

nicole473

 Exactly, Khirad.

nellie

 The public option will also be available to small companies with fewer than 20 employees.

KevenSeven

 Lance has a good point. Demanding that the insurance companies pay out 85% is not a victory.