This thread is for anyone watching the current debate who would like to discuss it.
Senate debates Health Care Bill
RECENT POSTS
I Believe in God, But I Hate Religion Part 2
The thought of eternal suffering is a significant motivator for those who are strong in their religious beliefs. It is also conducive to those who push various religious doctrines on their congregants to keep them in line.
People Are Stupid
“Democratic republics are more likely to perish through misuse of power than through lack of it.” — Tocqueville Democracy in America . It’s as if Tocqueville looked into the future.
Thought best to move over here. HC BILL. McCain up now (AGAIN) and asking once again to send the bill back to committee. He wannts nothing less than to kill this bill. He didn’t even show up half the time in the committee meetings to work on the bill!
It’s almost 2:30 a.m. where I am. I’m finally getting a chance to see what transpired in the “real world” (if DC can be called that) while I was at work, thanks to all of you here. Reading through the hundreds of play-by-play comments made it really come alive. Things are looking better these days. Hope Reid et al can pull it off!
But before I hit my new memory foam pillow, I have to say once more that AdLib is that rare combination of a very capable tech person and an amazing “people person”–namely a very calm, fair, even-handed and even-tempered administrator. You have no idea how much that is appreciated.
Are there ever nights when you go to bed with a giant headache?
Hello kesmarn.
I can’t and won’t speak for him but have a funny feeling that tonight could be one of those nights.
Goodnight. I hope you can get to sleep and feel better in the morning.
kesmarn, your very kind comments are soothing indeed, very appreciated!
I’m going to say good night as well. I have empty pages staring at me that must be filled with writing, or I’m in the dog house w my two puppies!
Today was another good day on the planet. Thanks everyone. Peace and pleasant dreams, all. And Kalima — have a great rest of the day.
Good night nellie, don’t work too hard. Sweet dreams for after your pages are filled. Later then.
I’m off too, night all…
Nite — today was fun. Thanks for all the good info.
Good night BDM, take care and hope to see you later. *wave*
Good night all meds an beds time for me.
Kalima, have a nice Tea Time
Good night bitohistory, I wish you well and thank you.
Nite, bito. See you here soon.
Hang on, hang on, hang on!
What? This is not the LAST cloture motion?
This business is killing me.
I cannot believe not one republican female voted to proceed against a brazenly sexist insurance industry. Shameful.
They might step up if they’re actually needed. I still have hopes for Maine.
I really called Snowe wrong, but there is that senior chair they threatened to withhold from her. Still…maybe she knew her vote was not necessary today? I don’t know.
I’m not giving up on Snowe. Or Cantwell. They knew the dems had 60 votes today. I think they both want health care reform. And it looks like the party of no coalition just might be weakening, what with Palin’s interference and her destructive impact.
Snowe or Collins, nellie . It’s getting late
Thank you, bito. But it’s only 8pm where I am. I always make that mistake.
I think that’s a good call, Nellie. It seems to me all the movement lately has been in our direction. I realize it could change …
Keeping our fingers crossed. I do think Snowe has an independent mind.
Palin is to womankind as Clarence Thomas is to the black man.
All threads lead back to Sarah….Why Lord, Why us?
Lord says you belong to the chosen few. lol
Oh, I think Clarence deserves a skosh more credit than that, lol!
They are Republicans. That trumps having a uterus, apparently.
Or having had one. Most of them are rather mature.
This was fun while it lasted,
Keven is going to be ban me,, so c’est la vie,
Bye
Am banned, so tyvm, and it was a good run
Nite javaz, take care.
There is no banning here. Alors, a bientot!
javaz, Keven can’t ban you, I am the Admin and we don’t ban here. This exchange is very unfortunate but I guarantee all here that I will be working with everyone involved to resolve this, put it behind us and move forward positively.
As I mentioned below, conflicts happen between husbands and wives, parents and kids, best friends and the constructive response is to recognize such moments are inevitable between independently minded people but if they share most of the same sensibilities, it’s just the task of ironing out what happened and putting it behind them.
That’s what will happen in this case.
Yes, it is unfortunate when people call others assholes.
Or infants. And that’s all I’m going to say about this.
don’t forget silly.
Now now. That was a description of her behaviour. Another thing all together.
Kind of like when I called you honest and mature. See?
I don’t think any adult likes being called an infant.
Yeah, it is a real pity.
Not quite as harsh.
But I did withdraw it.
You are not banned. Wish I could show you the thread 3 days after signing in here. K7 told me I was on probation for my conflicts at HP. Adlib set him and I straight.
Javaz, please don’t go anywhere. One thing I’ve learned over the last 3 weeks, that to disappear is not solution. I aborted 4 socks at HP, and I now regret it.
We must keep the fight for the correct going. And you clearly are an important member in that.
Good night sweetness.
See you tomorrow. Promise.
You might want to drop the violin.
I am not going to ban you.
I am not certain that I could.
But you have no business calling me an asshole.
Only Admin can ban here, meaning me and only for outrageous conduct, none of which has occurred to date.
Name calling is against the rules of conduct here for everyone who blogs here without exception or prejudice.
That includes me too.
Doo doo head!
K7 can’t ban you javaz.
Good Night, dear one. We will all find our civility on the morn. Sweet dreams.
javaz you are not getting banned. What the hell happened? I go away for a few minutes and all hell breaks out.
I’m thinking we should always follow a nerve-racking vote with a music thread. Last night’s was fabulous.
She called me an asshole. Strangely enough, she though that that might have consequences.
I have been here since early this morning. I have gone most of the day having many civil and thoughtful conversations concerning the HC vote. Nary a word about about HP or their posts and comments. It has been enjoyable. In the words of Bret: “Scarlet, I don’t give a shit about HuffPo”
May I suggest, with AdLib’s permission, that every one wanting to discuss the late HuffPo, that they open their own post. Speaker corner?
IMHO
bito
Censorship?
Nope, Speakers Corner is for non-news/issue-related articles. It’s open and public like every other category here except the articles posted under it just don’t appear as front page articles, like our Morning Blog which is there right now. It’s an editorial choice to feature POVs on issues of substance on the front page.
I appreciate bitohistory’s suggestion, we do strive to have important issue-based articles on our front page but Authors will always remain free to write articles as they choose.
I can’t help but think about all the nail biting followed by really good news since Mr. Obama came on the scene. First the primary — my apologies to Hillary fans, but I was an Obama supporter. Then the election. Then Sotomayor. The House health care vote — another squeeker. And now the Senate Cloture vote.
I could get used to this nail-biting, happy sigh of relief routine if we keep making progress.
Nellie – I also do the nail-biting/deep sigh thing! Thank you for making me realize I’m not alone. I agree though – unlike our narcissitic “progressive” allies on “the other post” that real progress has been made indeed. But I surely do agree – it would be a LOT easier on the nerves if it could be less perilous! Why do RW things seem to ease by but progressive reform is agonizingly slow? Oh. Right. The RW are the people paid billions to screw up the world. We volunteer to fix it. That’s why.
I think your explanation is spot on.
Anyway, where were we? Oh, yeah.
The Dem party’s primary initiative just passed the last hurdle, and we will have a bill to defend in 2010.
Me, I think it will go well. With a little luck, KSM will have been convicted by then. That would be cool.
(I passed on that straight line.)
Hi all – been out of touch much this week working the DC line to get this to this point. BUT, even though I’ve been talking to some Hill staffers, I’m not so sure this is a done deal. I fear the NEXT cloture vote to move it TO a vote – that’s where Lieberman et al. can screw us if this bill is actually good for people. For some reason, even some Dems don’t seem to think things that benefit people, that reflect our common humanity and responsibility for one another, are nearly so neat as things that make corporations rich. So – someone talk me down! I’ve been working on this daily for MONTHS, and I think I left many of my brain cells on a flight from east to west. Help!
We’ve had a question today — the next cloture vote — would that be on the conferenced bill, or is there another chance for a filibuster on the Senate bill?
Both, thanks. The Senate bill that emerges from debate has to be moved to a vote and can be blocked. This will be the most dangerous moment. If that passes and goes to Conference and a new version comes out, it goes BACK to the Senate – and can be filibustered to prevent a final vote. Why the Senate permits this – it’s a rule, not a Constitutional mandate- is beyond me. Remember the Reeps on the “up or down vote”? That’s just for their issues…the right to filibuster should either be revived in full – you’re on stage 24/7 – or dropped. However, it exists, and we have to deal with it.
Arrg! So we have TWO more knuckle-biters — 60-vote hurdles to get through.
Are you certain of that?
I find Senate rules so obscure.
This is not the last cloture vote?
Thank you, I did my best scouring my feeble memory and reading “senate rule 22”. http://www.senate.gov/reference/reference_index_subjects/Cloture_vrd.htm
The summery was not precise, to me.
I never really had to keep up on this rule until the election of 2006 and worse 2008.
Thanks
bito
Wow, that is news to me. I did not realize the Senate bill could be blocked again after amendments.
What’s up with that procedure? It seems to be designed to get nothing done.
I’m learning so much from all of you, thanks.
Question: Do you really think that the Republicans would try a filibuster?
I see them threatening it, but I don’t see them actually doing it.
Also, when was the last time there was an actual filibuster?
Where someone actually talked? It’s been a while. Someone read from the phone book once.
Thanks nellie, this is so confusing to me at times.
Recipes,bibles, hometown news papers…
I here there are some good recipes in the old journals 🙂
Now RECIPES would have been worth hearing. Better than the bs we had to sit through today!
I remember they hired a speed reader earlier in the year for some threatened filibuster.
I do remember the one reading the phonebook…not recipes. That would be pretty good.
LOL
Yeah, the speedreader was hired to read the phone book…
BDM, read this link:
http://www.senate.gov/reference/reference_index_subjects/Cloture_vrd.htm
It is a discussion on cloture/filibuster/senate rules and some history of them
Thanks, copied it, too late to read tonight..
The Rethugs absolutely will filibuster if they can.
Well, choicelady, I’d like to congratulate you and thank you….so far so good anyway! The bill has “died” a thousand deaths already, and it still chugs along. I must be an eternal optimist. I think it would never have made it this far if it wasn’t going to pass. I think some of those slimebags are holding out for some more “candy” in exchange for their votes. I think we’re going to get it passed.
escriba, that is how most legislation is done.
However in my life, I don’t recall congress being so idiotically divided. Maybe close to it on passage of the first civil rights bills
This is what the Dems need, some forward positive momentum to give them some confidence in standing up to those dweebs.
I don’t need undeserved shit from a poster who clearly has it out for me.
See you later kids.
It is not permitted to refer to another poster here as an asshole.
Now that is just naughty.
Smoooooch.
And BTW, “Babe” is one of my favorite words.
Hey, I have a brother too…didn’t see him for 17 years, and he’s resurfaced recently. He looks amazingly like the Stockbrocker dude at Huffy.
Javaz, thank you very much for your compassion and understanding. Wasn’t trying to do anything but post relevant concerns relating to my state, which is very much in the shitter compared to bygone days. NY used to be a top contributor to the feds.
🙂
Let me ask Kevenseven, a question?
Or multiple questions?
Is it really necessary to correct people’s spelling?
Is it really necessary to correct people when you do your weekly seminar to tell them, in not so friendly terms, that they are off topic?
Are you one of the founders of this site?
Lighten up.
Or you are going to lose members.
Lighten up, or you are going to lose valuable people.
Happy to answer your questions:
Is it “necessary” to correct spelling? No. Let me ask you a question: What sort of adult is wounded by simple corrections of spelling? I don’t write “what, were you home schooled”.
Is it “necessary” to tell people that they are off topic in a discussion that I am leading? (And I was perfectly civil about it) Yes. That is the whole point. To move toward an answer to a question. Answers to other questions do not advance the goal.
Yes, I am one of the charter members of this site.
I don’t know what you mean by “lighten up”. I was asking HITO if she could explain why it matters where I live? But if I hurt your feelings, I am sorry.
I don’t want anyone to leave. But I also don’t want people to challenge the validity of other’s opinions on frivolous and insulting grounds.
You are free to have a differing opinion. This is a political debate site. It is not a universal group hug. We need to be civil to each other, but if you need ointment on your bunions, I may not be the guy to ask.
And calling me an asshole is against the rules. You should not do that.
Kev have you ever considered that the person who you chose to correct, could be dyslexic?
Well, I suppose that is possible. And seeing as I am not throwing around insults with the occasional correction, I don’t know why it would cause so much pain.
Correcting someone’s spelling on a public blog is demeaning to that person, just my opinion. Sorry.
My opinion is that one needs to have a very thin skin indeed to be wounded, as an anonymous person, by such a correction from another anonymous person.
But what do I know?
Anonymous or not, there are people like myself who find it unnecessary or even rude. Nothing at all to do with the thickness of one’s skin.
I’m sorry, I was brought up in Europe, maybe we view things differently there.
I was worried about ol’fishlips Lieberman, but when I was over at HP, forgive me, the planet seemed to be stuck, then I saw this:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/11/21/806735/-20,000-pledgers-and-$1MM-pledged-if-Lieberman-filibusters-health-care
Gee, now I feel so much better…..
I love Jon Stewart’s impersonations of him and his whinny mumbling.
I love it, he really sounds like that at times…God, he’s my senator….you just can’t imagine how embarrassed I am to admit that.
I have DiFi, so I think I can relate….
Was amused in my visit to Never Never Land where the junior Rethugs were doing their standard lines. “Well, this is as far as it gets.” Etc. Somehow they need to learn to deal with their disappoints better. Will they all be in front of their altars to Sarah Palin praying for that miracle tonight?
They weren’t even worth commenting to. Of course, neither was much of anyone else there either.
There are still a number of clever and thoughtful folks over there, wish we could convince more to liberate themselves from the unnecessary abuse and repression over there.
I know some think they’re fighting the good fight but I think many here believe that war’s already been lost.
I think the good fight is better fought by leaving the site and sending a message that progressives are looking for something better.
I just observe the patterns and don’t see many of them changing. It’s Huffington’s Desease, highly addicting and difficult to defeat. I think that some of our friends over there really do like the fast paced banter and questionable social behavior they cannot exercise elsewhere. I understand we’re working slowly towards a critical mass, but we aren’t providing some of the “juice” that it seems others crave. Personally, I can do without it here and am much happier. But I admit I go over to roll some heads on occasion.
I confess I’m just as addicted as ever. My obsessive personality. But at least it’s better than some other addictions I’ve had in the past! Honestly, I’m more concerned at this point about the amount of time I waste. It’s interfering with other things.
Is it me? Can’t refresh fast enough. I’m waiting though…it’s worth it.
Is this thread only open to comment from residents of NY, or can anyone join in?
Knock it off, wise guy!
Adlib, make them play nice. 🙂
Who? Me? I am just wondering if my opinions count, seeing as I do not live in NY. I for one think that they do.
I think we’re only counting opinions from Manhattan, upstate New York is outta luck!
Ha!
I am only mid-Hudson Valley Adlib, so I’m still in this discourse!
You are a good moderator, btw.
Hudson Valley???? Is that where all the DeSotos are parked?
Cheers! All good folk here, just like in any relationship, conflicts come up, they need to be dissolved, reconciled and forgotten.
Now that is not nice.
Just cut and paste this:
Keven: It was wrong of me to question the validity of your opinion based on your residence.
Kev, you’re right, the rules apply in both directions.
Let’s get back to issues and not criticisms of other members.
Fine. Just as long as we don’t get any of this “some of the animals are more equal than the others”.
I had enough of that elsewhere.
Excuse me, I thought that we were here to set an example and not be part of the fray.
Maybe I read the wrong memo before we started this site or was it my piss poor eyes?
Kalima, I am just explaining that it is not cricket to dismiss people’s comments based on where they live.
Really a small detail.
Yes I know that kev, but we all have a choice on how we chose to word our replies, right?
Haha. You are so funny Keven.
Is it my imagination, or do you just hate me?
K7 and I have gotten into it on issues as well, please don’t take it personally.
Still, we do require that people respect each other while disagreeing on opinions, that applies to everyone including all of the founders. We’re all peers here.
No, I don’t hate you, don’t be an infant.
You said that my opinion on the utility of trying KSM was not of value because I am not from NY.
So I am just asking if the rule applies here?
I never said that. That would be projection on your part.
I continue to question the possibility that NY will absorb some of the costs of trying KSM. It is a valid concern regardless of your stance.
Chas. Schumer said he will request the feds pick up the bill for this.
Why did Schumer have to ask to begin with?
YIKES
Keven scares the hell out of me.
When he writes them things whereby we’re supposed to converse, well, I wonder if Keven is my brother that lives in California and he disowned me.
Lighten up.
Wow. You should not scare that easy. There are actual reactionaries out there to battle.
It is not a question of whether or not NY will absorb some fraction of the cost.
You asked me “Do you live in NY?”
What difference does it make where I live? That is my question to you. Which you seem to have a problem answering.
OK, perhaps if you did live in NY you might share some of my angst, given NY is $13Bil in the hole, and our NYSED system is as well.
Was just looking for a some shared sentiment, not trying to attack you as you have clearly posted.
I’ll go away now K7. Hope you are happy.
What is your problem?
Well, that is a fine response.
Like I could not have empathy with NY and it’s finances? My state is bankrupt as well. Do you want to have a cry-fest, or shall we just discuss the issues of the day without personalizing them?
Javez, I thought I was clear:
I object to having my comments dismissed because I am not a resident of the state the action is happening in.
Schumer did the correct thing, he brought the subject up at a hearing in commie with the A.G., Eric Holder. There is a process to move the funds to cover all of the expenses that NYC may incur.
Seriously. As if the Feds are not going to cover the bill.
Kev, the rules don’t allow you to name call. Please don’t do that.
Please Kev, feel free to discuss the issues you have a problem with but don’t personalize it.
That’s the HuffPo way, not The Planet way.
Fine. I object to having my comments dismissed with “Do you live in NY”.
There. Clear enough?
I think that everyone needs to read the rules again and remember why we started this site in the first place.
X4!!!
Absolutely.
And I want to hear your opinion even if you don’t live in NY.
He reminds me of one of my brothers, and he sounds so much like him, I’m wondering.
Lighten up.
What, Tokyo is banned?
Never, Kalima, adlib doesn’t want Godzilla swimming over here and coming after LA. 🙂
😆 I see that I DO serve a purpose here after all.
I thought you were the keeper of the flame during our darkness and your daylight! What could be more valuable than that?
I am and will always be on the side of justice for all and not only in a court of law.
I am humbled. *blushesintoherhankie*
I only want the opinions of people who own lots and lots of cats.
😆 You called?
What’s the minimum. I have 2.
You have more than one nellie, welcome. 🙂
Phew!
The city objects to people having more then three.
Of course, I might lose my mind if I did have more than three.
It’s the max the two dogs will allow!
No dogs?
Well, if no dogs is the case, I’m just going to pick up my doggies and go home! Cats, indeed. @%#%^#^#^!!
I think there is a cat bias here, I would pick up my doggies if I could, but one at 100lbs and the other at 80lbs, I’d break my back.
So, I’ll just get my red wagon and haul them away with me, so there!
😆 I love dogs too, just not well enough to take them for walkies.
Without dogs, I would not be a sane person. Without cats, I believe I’d be a little saner.
Oh nellie, how could you think that. 🙂
LOL…we all seem to be animal lovers here, maybe we should forget politics one night and just talk about our critters!
I grew up with dogs. Now I just can’t stand them. Too needy.
But that is me.
Yes, that is you. My dogs seem to need nothing from me but dinner. I think I get much more from them. They are terrific companions. Better than most people — present company excepted.
We are running a bit slow when comments reach a certain number on each thread. AdLib is on it but it might take a little time. Thank you for your patience.
Kalima, no worries. Was just whining. Sorry, long day.
You guys do a great job. Adlib knows I have much respect for his work.
I do indeed and it’s very appreciated, my friend!
I know all about long days, hope that you feel more rested soon.
Nope, it’s me. Just adjusted how many comments appear per page (click “Older Comments” below to see more).
When we get a few hundred comments and they’re not paged, it takes a long time to load them all each time there’s a refresh!
Sorry about that!
Do NOT be sorry. see above.
Adlib, you are the one. You keep us floating.
Thanks.
I have no problem AdLib. Beats having comments dissipate.