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BlueStateMan On November - 14 - 2009

I want to COMMEND Attorney General Holder & the Obama Justice Department for deciding to try Khalid Sheikh Muhammmad & others in a CRIMINAL COURT in NYC.

FINALLY, an Attorney General & a President that actually EMBRACE our Constitution & have not only RESPECT for it’s precepts, but FAITH in them as well.

The contortions that Gonzales, et al had put it through to try & skirt our VALUES as Americans.. TORTURING those involved so that ANY evidence found under those circumstances were THROWN OUT.. even by this CONSERVATIVE SCOTUS… even by the kangaroo courts & “tribunals” that they had created.

Tribunals are for MILITARY JUSTICE, as you know.. but the defendants are NOT “military”.. if they were, they be considered POWS & subject to the Geneva Convention.. ESPECIALLY regarding TORTURE.

THAT is why they were deemed “enemy combatants”.. so that Rummy, Cheney, et al could TORTURE them with seeming impunity.

They tried to have it BOTH ways… they lost, as even THIS conservative SCOTUS found.

If they are CIVILIANS, then a Tribunal is Unconstitutional.. if they were MILITARY, they were protected by the Convention that WE SIGNED.

One of the BEST things that can come out of these trials (besides justice) is the exposure of those who spit on our most sacred document & our values as a nation with it.

We’re BACK!

FINALLY.. once again a Nation of LAWS & NOT of “men”.

46 Responses so far.

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  1. peacekitten says:

    incidentally, even as “enemy combatants,” these people were protected under the united nations human rights charter. NONE of the international treaties we have ever signed regarding torture allowed for a classification that would fall OUTSIDE the limits of those treaties.

    now that the hysteria seems to be calming down regarding how to handle these people, at least among those of us who are SANE, there can be little question that 9/11 was a matter to be handled by international law enforcement and not a military action. no war has been declared, the authorization for force did NOT provide for all out war, it is controversial as to whether or not the congress even has the right without changing the constitution to abrogate its responsibility for declaring war, and bush and cheney broke every treaty we have ever signed with regards to rules of war, human rights, war crimes and crimes against humanity. i hope that we will hold them as accountable as the “terrorists.”

    • Mogamboguru says:

      Amen, Peacekitten!

      An interesting development for you to behold may be the tiny fact, that NONE of the perpetrators of the Bush-administration travelled to Europe anymore, since they lost ther immunity from persecution after they left office January 22nd -- because they know that several european courts have issued search warrants for them already for crimes against humanity, which obliges every signatory state to the UN-ICC-treaty, to arrest and deport them to the Hague, Netherlands, the minute they would set foot on their soil.

      (Something which goes for the political and military masterminds of the Israeli butchery assault on Gaza of November/December 2008 too, by the way.)

      The members of the former Bush-administration may have ignored international treaties while they broke international law, Peacekitten; but the international law doesn’t ignore the breaking of international treaties by the members of the former Bush-administration.

      And finally, the law will win.

  2. KQuark says:

    Amazing. Not one story on huffy like your story BSM. Not one so called liberal pundit on huffy can applaud AG Holder’s actions to try KSM in a civil court. The only article I do see is a reference to a New York Post article where the Pearle family is complaining about the AG trying KSM in NY courts. There is no such thing as a liberal base that any Democrat can count on for support even when they are taking the most liberal actions.

    • peacekitten says:


      i’m not in the slightest bit surprised there is nothing out there like this. HP has become a tabloid that reports half-truths and doesn’t believe in free speech.

      it’s too bad that the perle family has allowed themselves to be blinded by their grief, even if it’s somewhat understandable. every word obtain from KSM while being tortured has been ruled inadmissible in court, so i hope the bush junta is proud of themselves for making it more difficult to pursue the course of law. any terrorist that goes free because of illegally obtained evidence are squarely on the shoulders of bush and cheney.

      military tribunals to try civilians are unconstitutional. period. he should be tried in public, and his insanity exposed. there is no better cure or better weapon against any kind of terrorist than the truth.

      i am very, very proud and pleased that this nation is returning to its system of justice, slowly but surely. it’s long overdue.

      • KQuark says:

        Great to see your moniker again PK! You are so right. I am so proud that AG Holder is finally restoring rule of law and of course the usual suspects are against it like Sarah Palin. It’s amazing how people who constantly preach we are the best country in the world are afraid to follow our own principles. I never understood how the proper use of our justice system ever became so controversial and debated for political purposes.

        If Bush had not messed up so badly these criminals would have already met with justice one way or another.

        BTW I just used you as an example the other night in a response because I said you are thoughtful poster and even your posts were getting scrubbed on HP. I just gave up the moderation and scrubbing was maddening over there.

        • peacekitten says:

          i’ve had it to the teeth with that place anymore. there are a few people there i still enjoy talking with when they are around, but the website seem to have developed an allergy to the truth.

          thank you for your kind words. i hope you are doing well and taking care of yourself.

          i too often wonder just when it was that our system of justice and laws became negotiable. i think it began under reagan, and at the time, i don’t think people really considered just how much damage and how deep it went that iran/contra really did to us. we are suffering now the consequences of not carrying out the proper laws then.

          i hope that president obama has realized that striving for “bipartisanship” was a lost cause from the beginning. why would the people who benefitted the most from breaking the laws in the first place suddenly change their minds and want to uphold them.

          i think this decision to pursue the due process of law in such a high profile matter that has been so contentious for so long is one of the most important decisions the obama administration has made yet.

          • nellie says:

            Good to see you here, PK.

            I think President Obama will continue to strive for bipartisanship throughout his presidency. He is setting an example for our future leaders. I doubt he has any illusions about the GOP in its current incarnation. They have not stopped him from following any of his agenda. They have not blocked any legislation. Not so far. They have succeeded in blocking his nominations, but slowly those move through the process as well.

            It’s frustrating for us, but it’s good for our system that he operates this way. He is president of all the people. And he models that. It makes the GOP look even more like obstructionists and ideologues.

            You make an excellent point about this decision being very high profile and important. So many Americans know so little about what makes our country unique. They shout about patriotism, but when our principles are thrown aside, they don’t even notice. This trial not only brings the debate about Guantanamo out into the open, it brings the debate about our judicial foundations out into the open. That’s a very good thing for the country.

            • KQuark says:

              The best development is that AG Holder is showing independence from the political process which is the way it’s suppose to work. Bush basterdized the process so much that too many people on both sides forgot that these investigations were suppose to be apolitical. In this case their is no room for bipartisanship like in some legislation because it’s about the rule of law.

  3. KQuark says:

    Very dissapointed in what Senator Webb said in response.

    “I have never disputed the constitutional authority of the President to convene Article III courts in cases of international terrorism. However, I remain very concerned about the wisdom of doing so. Those who have committed acts of international terrorism are enemy combatants, just as certainly as the Japanese pilots who killed thousands of Americans at Pearl Harbor. It will be disruptive, costly, and potentially counterproductive to try them as criminals in our civilian courts.”

    This sounds like Republican logic. There are enemies but they are not enemies of an organized army like Japanese soldiers were during Pearl Harbor. I don’t recall the pilots who bombed Pearl Harbor every being charged with a criminal act anyway. This is a very bad comparison and raising the specter of fear unnecessarily.

    • AdLib says:

      So with that flawed logic, Timothy McVeigh should not have been prosecuted in criminal court for his bombing of the Oklahoma City bombing since he had declared war on the U.S. Government.

      Can’t wait for Webb to come out against the wrongful conviction and execution of McVeigh.

      Remember all those folk cheering Webb for Obama’s VP? Lesson learned I hope.

      • HITO says:

        I’m split on this guys.

        Webb had O’s back before. Perhaps things of transparency are getting so that it’s ok to engaged varying opinions. I am OK with that and will not micromanage it.

        Buenos noche all.

        • AdLib says:

          Of course I agree that opinions should be openly given but my problem with Webb is more my problem with conservative Dems in general.

          They often speak out to the benefit of Pres. Obama’s Republican opponents.

          Webb, has been pretty good on the issues, he has agreed to breaking a filibuster but will not commit to voting for health care reform.

          I’m just a bit tired of half-measure Dems. I feel better that Biden is VP, a conservative Dem would have been a mistake IMHO.

          Night, sleep well HITO!

        • nellie says:

          There may be room for honest disagreement on this point, but legally speaking, Webb is wrong. Terrorism is a crime. It is not considered an act of war. The president is doing the right thing.

          • AdLib says:

            If terrorism was an act of war, the U.S. would be reduced to being officially at war with a single person, if another McVeigh committed an act of terrorism.

            How ridiculous is that?

            Webb is justifying the U.S. to declare war on one, two or three people?

            It’s just plain crazy.

    • Mogamboguru says:

      I am suspicious long since, that it’s part of a Republican long-term-strategy, to have some of their members intentionally converting to Democrats like wolfs in sheeps’ clothes, so as to act as a Republican Fifth Column in the Democratic party whenever it becomes profitable for the Republicans again.

      • KQuark says:

        You know I’m not the conspiracy type but you have to wonder. At least a swath of Dems are trying to keep the party in the middle or center right which is undisputed. Webb was a Republican as late as the 90’s so who knows. It just really sucks that when AG Holder is being independent like he should that he’s getting flack from his own party.

      • BigDogMom says:

        Ya know Mo you may be on to something there, wouldn’t put it past them.

  4. KQuark says:

    While he is probably being scapegoated a bit I’m still glad to see white house counsel Greg Craig step down for his roll in botching the Gitmo closing. Sure there are others to blame but you’ve got to love accountability after eight long years of the Bush administration having no accountability.

    I also see Mukasey already complaining about Holder moving the trials to the US. We’ve got to have his back on this one because you know the right wing will try to pull the fear card.

  5. javaz says:


    Sister Sarah’s “wise” words concerning the trial, because all posts are eventually about SP! :)

    • peacekitten says:

      please, god in heaven, no more about that woman, please!

    • BigDogMom says:

      javaz, all your links here today are great, yes all posts do eventually come aroung to Sister Sarah, the mental midgit that she is.

      Would like to know where she received her Law Degree from though, sheesh….wish she would just go away, far away…

      Can’t wait for the Oprah interview, apparently she does usual word salad when questioned…

      • Kalima says:

        O/T BDM, I’ve found the transcript of the President’s speech in Tokyo, it is very long, so I will have to post it in parts and under different headings as he touches on many different issues.

        I will start sometime today when I have a little more time if that’s ok. Thanks!

        • BigDogMom says:

          Thanks, whenever you have time.

          • Kalima says:

            Still in my morning zombie state sorry. I just clicked on to my newspaper online and there it was. Enjoy!

            Following is the full text of U.S. President Barack Obama’s speech Saturday at Suntory Hall in Minato Ward, Tokyo, as released by the White House after it was delivered:

            Boosting ties: U.S. President Barack Obama delivers a speech Saturday at Suntory Hall in Minato Ward, Tokyo. POOL PHOTO/KYODO PHOTO

            “Thank you so much. “Arigato.” Thank you very much.

            Good morning. It is a great honor to be in Tokyo

            • BigDogMom says:

              Thanks Kalima, looks like he and his speech was well received by the Japanese.

              Also, read the article on the Air Base in Okinawa, let’s hope that gets resolved. Would like to see it closed, but the powers that be must see it a strategic base.

              Thank you again for the link.

            • Kalima says:

              I’m glad you found this link. The one in my post doesn’t work. *hangsherheadinshame*

  6. AdLib says:

    Hmm…wouldn’t doubt that we may see teabaggers outside the courthouse during the trial, protesting it because the attack on 9/11 is being treated as a crime.

    Wouldn’t that be ironic? Radical religious, fundamentalist, virulently anti-American people who wish harm to America…protesting a trial against Al Qaeda.

    • Mogamboguru says:

      If you don’t hinder fools from it, they always disqualify themselves over time -- see Sarah Palin, who has become the laughing stock o the Republican party as of late.

      I feel that the influence of the Tea Baggers and the extreme right is vaning.

      But this can only be a warning to president Obama, to go ahead with a progressive agenda full speed: Because, if he keeps stuck in the mainstream-middleground-mess (MMM) which is considered the must-have of politics in Washington these days, it might well be, that a revamped, re-energized Republican party might be able to catch up on him.

      I am convinced, that the way past the quagmires in Washington as well as in the Middle East lies left of the mainstream!

  7. KevenSeven says:

    David Brooks (Dog, I just detest him) is crying a blue streak about this.

    The AG did not consult with Obama??? So?

    The AG calls 9-11 a crime. Brooks says that is wrong. That 9-11 was a declaration of war. Really? By who? Cosa Nostra could “declare war”, but it would not be a matter for the military, would it?

  8. javaz says:


    Answers the questions about an impartial jury and addresses the ‘myths’ surrounding this trial.

  9. javaz says:

    Someone asked last night if it’s possible for these people to get an impartial jury.
    It will be interesting to see the attorneys for the defendants.
    Will the defendants take the stand and answer questions?

    • KQuark says:

      Just the fact that your asking such a poignant question shows how great this development is. The old tribunals system was so opaque we could not ask these questions.

  10. AlphaBitch says:

    Great post. Shows what can be accomplished with a competent AG. I worked as a lead litigation paralegal (civil) for 20 years; I would gladly volunteer my time to help with such an endeavor. I’m just so grateful to see the law prevail again!

  11. nellie says:

    I will never understand the GOP position on this. 500 “detainees” from Guantanamo have been released with no due process, no judicial review. We don’t even know whether they are guilty of crimes against the United States. But we couldn’t hold them, because of the mishandling of our own laws by the Bush Administration. No one ever brings this up. And the right wingers who are so afraid of the four men who are going to be brought to New York don’t seem to care at all about these other people who are free and doing who knows what.

    It makes no sense. (Not that I’m particularly concerned about these people, I’m just pointing out the disconnect.)

    On the other hand, the GOP seems to think New Yorkers don’t deserve their day in court. NY has waited so long to face their attackers. And there’s no closure — if there ever can be any closure — until New Yorkers can do this.

    It’s the most illogical of the illogical antics the GOP has pulled over the past 15 years.

    Their fear makes them completely irrational.

  12. BigDogMom says:

    It’s quite nice having intelligent adults in charge again, that will not pervert justice and the constitution for their own gain.

    This is just another step in our thousand mile journey to get our country back to where it’s supposed to be. I applaud Pres. Obama and Attny. Holder.

    But of course the ‘pundit’s’ are going to have a field day with this, they’ve already started on CNN last night.

  13. Kalima says:

    The President was asked this question here in Tokyo last night by a very breathless, female U.S. journalist. The way she asked the question seemed a little on the aggressive side but he answered all questions as he always does.

    He said that Attorney General Holder would be announcing his decision in the evening JST, without further ammunition, she promptly sat back down in her seat. It was fun to watch.

    • BigDogMom says:

      Evening/Morning here in stormy CT, Kalima. Missed the debate, no power. How’s everything, I saw this press conference on the early news last night, he was brilliant as usual.

      I believe that the press has totaly underestimated Obama’s ability to cut these leading questions to the quick. I love watching him do this to them, he is a master at this and they don’t even see it coming.

      • Kalima says:

        Good morning BDM. I was just getting ready for bed when I popped back one more time, a habit of mine. I posted my impression of the reaction of the Japanese to his visit here on AdLibs post at the top of the Home Page. He apparently gave a Speech at a place called the “Suntory Hall” and as soon as I find the transcript I will share it because according to my hubby’s evening newspaper, he totally captured his audience there and everyone is still singing his praises. That is the way it should be reported by the press, by giving the man credit where credit is due.

        Shame about your hypocritical, scandal seeking msm but the world is much smaller now and we have the internet and people who live in different countries who will report the truth.

        I will say goodnight and wish you a nice weekend.

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