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AdLib On January - 22 - 2010

Hope you enjoyed this evening’s edition of Vox Populi! The chat continues here!

Categories: Vox Populi

Written by AdLib

My motto is, "It is better to have blogged and lost hours of your day, than never to have blogged at all."

170 Responses so far.

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  1. KQuark says:

    OK I’ve being a little disingenuous to make a point.

    Probably in 100 years I would not vote for a Republican unless I get Alzheimer’s but I think it’s important to stress what 2010 and 2012 will look like if Obama does not pass his signature issue. I know we have our disagreements on how to get there, but we must get there. Nine months of Obama’s presidency would have been spinning his wheels if healthcare does not pass. Not passing healthcare is simply not an option and makes the future that much worse for Dems and most importantly for us. Every other big issue is predicated on the success of healthcare as well because if it is not passed there will never be enough support to pass other meaningful pieces of legislation.

  2. KQuark says:

    This is my favorite semi-recent protest band “Rage Against the Machine -- Wake Up”

  3. KQuark says:

    To throw out another hypothetical how many Repubs in the Senate right now would vote for the Senate bill maybe with a few changes if McCain was president Rather than Obama?

    • boomer1949 says:

      KQ-
      All of them. Why? Because McCain isn’t African-American.
      These guys are against anything, and I mean anything proposed by this administration. And, if the truth be known, 99.9% of them agree with policy, but would never, ever step up to the plate. Why? Because their constituents would “seek & destroy” their careers.

      Amazing how none of these guys (WHITE guys) only have balls when they are paid for them. Ouch. Isn’t that Prostitution? And all they ever do is throw the women in jail.

      • KQuark says:

        In this case even if Hillary was president and she would have won too. The Repubs would have used the same tactic. They take pleasure in doing it more with an African American in charge.

    • Kalima says:

      None, he’d have them all gathered in the Men’s Room singing “Bomb, bomb Iran.”

    • escribacat says:

      If McCain were president I doubt there would be any discussion of HCR at all. Bush never mentioned it to my knowledge. It was Obama who put it on the front burner.

    • FlyingLotus says:

      I think that hypothetical is moot, as there wouldn’t be a bill if McCrash was prez.

  4. FlyingLotus says:

    Kalima, you’re talking to a first rate snorter.

    Hi, my name is FlyingLotus and I snort when I laugh.

  5. Tiger99 says:

    Hows bout some Steppenwolf…


    Once the religious, the hunted and weary
    Chasing the promise of freedom and hope
    Came to this country to build a new vision
    Far from the reaches of kingdom and pope
    Like good Christians, some would burn the witches
    Later some got slaves to gather riches

    But still from near and far to seek America
    They came by thousands to court the wild
    And she just patiently smiled and bore a child
    To be their spirit and guiding light

    And once the ties with the crown had been broken
    Westward in saddle and wagon it went
    And ’til the railroad linked ocean to ocean
    Many the lives which had come to an end
    While we bullied, stole and bought our a homeland
    We began the slaughter of the red man

    But still from near and far to seek America
    They came by thousands to court the wild
    And she just patiently smiled and bore a child
    To be their spirit and guiding light

    The blue and grey they stomped it
    They kicked it just like a dog
    And when the war over
    They stuffed it just like a hog

    And though the past has it’s share of injustice
    Kind was the spirit in many a way
    But it’s protectors and friends have been sleeping
    Now it’s a monster and will not obey

    (Suicide)
    The spirit was freedom and justice
    And it’s keepers seem generous and kind
    It’s leaders were supposed to serve the country
    But now they won’t pay it no mind
    ‘Cause the people grew fat and got lazy
    And now their vote is a meaningless joke
    They babble about law and order
    But it’s all just an echo of what they’ve been told
    Yeah, there’s a monster on the loose
    It’s got our heads into a noose
    And it just sits there watchin’

    Our cities have turned into jungles
    And corruption is stranglin’ the land
    The police force is watching the people
    And the people just can’t understand
    We don’t know how to mind our own business
    ‘Cause the whole worlds got to be just like us
    Now we are fighting a war over there
    No matter who’s the winner
    We can’t pay the cost
    ‘Cause there’s a monster on the loose
    It’s got our heads into a noose
    And it just sits there watching

    (America)
    America where are you now?
    Don’t you care about your sons and daughters?
    Don’t you know we need you now
    We can’t fight alone against the monster

    • Khirad says:

      Not much has changed. The view from Slovenia, ’cause I know that’s what everyone wonders, ‘how do Slovenians think of us?’ (chose this over a few German bands, actually)


      So the Land of the Free
      and the Home of the Brave
      Are your stars still so bright
      Does your banner still wave
      Oh, the Land of the Free
      and the Home of the Brave
      Are you heaven on Earth
      or the gloom of the grave

      You
      The people of the United States
      Did you form a perfect union
      Establish justice
      Ensure tranquility
      Secure the blessings of Liberty
      to yourselves and your posterity
      How blind can you get
      for your country
      right or wrong

      America
      The melting pot

      So the Land of the Free
      and the Home of the Brave
      Are your stars still so bright
      Does your banner still wave
      Oh, the Land of the Free
      and the Home of the Brave
      Are you heaven on Earth
      or the gloom of the grave

      [preacher sample]

      Praise the Lord
      and Praise the Holy Spirit
      to save us from your
      Freedom, Justice, Peace
      Accordance and Illusion
      from Arrogance and Pride
      from Violence and Confusion
      your Great Despair
      and Great Depression
      Satanic verses
      of your superstition
      the Land of Plenty…

      Your Bill of Rights
      the Enterprise
      the Free Will (or Wheel?)
      and the Unbroken One (Wand?)
      your Self-Esteem
      and Self-Desire
      your Trust in God
      and in Religious Fire

      America

      The end of History
      The end of Time
      The end of Family
      The end of Crime

      • Tiger99 says:

        Yeah it’s always all our fault… Now we gonna get blamed for the end of it all too…

        Heh Heh Heh

      • KQuark says:

        Wow the last part is rough. One of Eastern Europe’s biggest problem is there xenophobic movement. There are more skin heads in Russia the the rest of the world for example. Poland is almost unbelievable. I watch a documentary series “Gangland” and the Easter European gangs are the worst.

        • FlyingLotus says:

          Artists, generally speaking, in any country are leftyists.

          I think people bestow an almost mythical perspective on America.

          Maybe I’ll blog on that topic, after the Bordeaux is long finished.

          • KQuark says:

            I worked with European companies half my career and talked with many Europeans. The look at America as a huge enigma filled with contradictions. In some ways we do great things like the way we respond to crises around the world and are the first western country to elect a non-Caucasian but on the other hand we still can be racist and xenophobic and very right leaning especially our military intervention.

            • FlyingLotus says:

              KQ, life, individuals, et all is, are full of contradictions.

              Few, very few are not subject to that trait.

            • KQuark says:

              True.

              The biggest things Europeans don’t understand is why we make it so tough on ourselves. Why we put up with the hours we work, not taking enough vacation time and most of all why we are obsessed without having government help people. It could be our diverse population because since Europe has opened immigration I started hearing them start complaining about the state helping people more.

    • FlyingLotus says:

      I’m a child of the sixties.Reading the lyrics makes me think not much has changed really.

    • AdLib says:

      Nice pick! You know, after they originally broke up, there were many separate and simultaneous incarnations of Steppenwolf? Really amazing story and history.

  6. FlyingLotus says:

    I may have to call it a night soon.

    The SCOTUS decision made me, well, in a word disgusted.

    Made me think of this..


  7. AdLib says:

    I mentioned this in Vox Populi and just wanted to share with folks who missed it, I received an email from an editor at the Crossville Chronicle in TN who asked if he could run “Corporations Are People Too!” in their paper.

    It’s our first pickup from a paper so a big thanks to John Wund for his interest and sharing a piece of The Planet with other “pinkos” in TN!

  8. boomer1949 says:

    So, I tried this before and will try this again. No political chat importance, not a continuation o VP, just an extension of the Merlot and the fact it is 12:35 am EST (and waaaay past the amount of information my brain is able to handle in a 24 hour period of time). :-) Night all…and what a difference 10+ years makes…for each of us:

    Tina Arena First 1996


    Tina Arena 2009 (this one is similar to Austin City Limits and/or
    the MTV Unplugged


    • FlyingLotus says:

      Boom, she’s got some pipes on her!

    • Khirad says:

      Just a continuation of the merlot… priceless! 😆

      • boomer1949 says:

        Nah, I had to pay for it, but it is payday and it is Friday, and (okay Saturday), and I can get up whenever I want or at least until the cats have waited long enough for what they perceive to be breakfast.

        • Khirad says:

          Maybe a little hair of the dog, while you give the cats “breakfast”?

          • boomer1949 says:

            oh khirad,

            haven’t done that in years…of course it will be 5:00 pm somewhere. Maybe I’ll just pretend I’m meeting Kalima & WhatThatSound for Happy Hour in Tokyo, eh?

            • Kalima says:

              Starts at 6 pm, don’t be late or we’ll start without you.

            • Khirad says:

              LOL! I’m already getting too old for that myself! Ah the days when I could go out clubbing and get hammered and still go to work on three hours sleep the next day…

            • boomer1949 says:

              Year ago, I could go to sleep at 4 am, get up and be at work by 7am, have bacon, eggs, coffee, & juice feel 1,000% and turn around and do it again.

              Jezze — part of me feels the same — yet it takes longer to recover. I guess that’s the key. The longer it takes to recover, the older you are. :-)

  9. boomer1949 says:

    Well for goodness sake — did we have a power outage or did we just drop middle america?

  10. Khirad says:

    Wondering where you went. Not much, I don’t think.

  11. AdLib says:

    Everyone agreed with me that I was right and you were wrong. It was so sweet! I can’t believe you missed it!

  12. KQuark says:

    Wow I just went to Huffy a second, don’t ask me why save for the main it’s all about the banks. I just don’t get it people.

    • AdLib says:

      You’re the one who renamed it Bankington Post and right you are.

      Check out the site, I couldn’t find one main article about SCOTUS handing our democracy to corporations.

      I think Huffy likes that, they want to influence elections?

    • Khirad says:

      Don’t get me started. I try not to alienate those into econ, and know it’s important, but something still stinks to high heaven about the obsession. It was a banking main when the Haiti news first broke as the main story on every other site. They got to it the next morning. After all, it was supposed to be another one of their marquee expos

  13. KQuark says:

    One of the reasons I blame Obama less than most is because in the process he’s the only Dem or pundit or whoever that was invoked in the process that never did anything to slow it down on purpose. He revived the whole effort after teabag August only for people to say he was being too visible. He never said wait for this or that or step back. He tried to set down due dates. He definitely did not say kill the bill like our progressive friends.

    Yes some of his actions slowed down the process like trying to get Snowe on board sure. But again most other players did much more to slow down the process than that. Pelosi could have rammed through the House bill before the August recess or at least by the end of September for example but wanted to wait for the Senate. Reid could have seen that he did not have the votes for the PO and got it done in the Senate earlier. The legislator legislates and I think it got further this time because a bill was not rammed down by the white house. Dems hate passing pieces of legislation they don’t own in Congress. Republicans are different in that regard.

    In fact now is the only time I saw Obama say slow down. That’s why I know anything new is impossible. He knows that if the House does not pass the Senate bill there is no other way to pass healthcare reform.

    The biggest thing that happened to the legislation is that after the Senate passed it Democrats got complacent just like a team on the one yard line of a football game and first and ten they thought the last part was inevitable. If they had realized they had two weeks to consolidate the bills it might have been different.

    Again I’m serious if Romney runs on healthcare reform in 2012 I will vote for him. The fact is the GOP over demonizes government but progressives over demonize business as well. Other great healthcare systems that are 100% private run well in countries like the Netherlands, Switzerland and Singapore even at much lower cost and with better service than ours.

    • AdLib says:

      KQ, go back and check the record. Romney did next to nothing to get health care passed. It was happening before he was elected.

      And that Romney was your grandfather’s Romney. This one is even worse.

      You are mistaken if you think Romney was a champion of or did anything of substance to bring about Universal health care in MA.

      Please reconsider, he is not your friend and he won’t help you.

      • KQuark says:

        Check my logic though. It would be crazy for Romney not to run on healthcare first because he can make hay on Obama’s failure failure. That was Dole’s problem not picking out Clinton’s failures. I saw him in the debates against Repubs and he was touting his healthcare reform but they just did not care in their primaries. But if they saw it as a way to dethrone Obama they would. Then he gets into office even with a slight Democratic majority that really wants healthcare reform. He can easily get some Repubs to cross over. Obama will face ZERO votes from Repubs for 8 years as president if he did win reelection and I doubt very much we will see 60 again in those 8 years.

        • AdLib says:

          I don’t agree. The corporations own and run the GOP and they will not support a candidate who would take money away from them or force them to cover patients with pre-existing conditions.

          The flaw in your logic is that the GOP does not support universal health coverage. There is no way they would cover you. No way.

          • KQuark says:

            That was one of my conditions it would have to be a Democratic congress and a more moderate. A Palin or even Pawlenty no way. Romney had to sprint to the right but he can work with Dems if he has to.

    • FlyingLotus says:

      Romney?

      Gasp!

      • KQuark says:

        Hey he passed HCR in MA.

        • escribacat says:

          Are you talking about Mitt Romney?

        • Khirad says:

          Gonna have to liquor me up and do some more persistent cajoling for me on that one. I admire the cajones for propositioning the idea, though.

          • KQuark says:

            The logic is simple. Dems even if they keep their majorities will not be able to do enough between now and 2012 to pass healthcare. Romney could easily pass healthcare because he’ll have almost all Republicans and unlike the Republicans now enough Dems will splinter and vote for healthcare reform even if it’s 100% private.

            I really hope I don’t have to and I probably still won’t but I can’t wait 15 more years like some.

            • AdLib says:

              The flaw in your logic is assuming the GOP wants substantial reforms to healthcare. There is no proof of that.

              Consider what McCain’s position on healthcare was, that’s the best you’re going to get.

              Tax deductions if you buy health care. If you are allowed to buy it.

              That’s not what I think you’re looking for.

            • KQuark says:

              For the record the driving forces will be the defeat of Obama. They would buy into that no matter what. The other is that the healthcare problem in this country is not going to get better in fact it will get much worse now. They will see it as they dodged a bullet and take their profits even more now.

              Keep in mind much of what I’m saying is specific to Romney with and a Dem congress. All Repub and they won’t ever consider it.

            • AdLib says:

              KQ, I appreciate the hypothetical exploration of this concept.

              I just think that one would have to accept so many contradictory propositions that it isn’t viable.

              Would the GOP support “socialized” medicine? Would they support damaging the revenues of one of their biggest industry supporters? WOuld a Repub President be able to override the will of the corporations and the entire GOP?

              Too many huge leaps to buy.

              Leopards don’t change their spots, the GOP has no record of doing anything in recent memory that didn’t benefit the wealthiest and corporations and I don’t believe that is suddenly going to change.

            • Khirad says:

              It sorta reminds me of the counterintuitive thinking behind those saying that ironically Bibi could deliver on a peace deal. Don’t mean to change the subject, and that’s the last I need to hear on that. Merely saying that the principle can backfire -- horribly.

            • escribacat says:

              I’d say there’s plenty of proof for the opposite — the last thing they want is HCR.

            • KQuark says:

              In allot of ways that was the real way to kill the employer based system we have now when you include taxing benefits. It sounds horrible but right now employee based insurance has been dominant because the benefit is deductible. I also think it would not be McCain’s plan either because we would still have a Dem congress.

              This is about as crazy a what if argument as you get but just saying.

            • Khirad says:

              Ah, I do get the logic on that, actually.

        • FlyingLotus says:

          True but I can’t get passed the rest of him.He’s as slick and slimy as they come.

        • AdLib says:

          Technically but it was already happening before he was elected.

  14. FlyingLotus says:

    So what’s the situation here?


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