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Comments Posted By choicelady

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The T Party — T for Terrorists

Dear boomer – what I have learned from all of you is nothing short of amazing! I LOVE the Planet and its people! You all have the best sense, and even in disagreements remain civil. Even when hot under the collar there is TALK, not screed. The air is fresh over here, and I learn every day from each one of you. I thank you for letting ME vent, too – I get a lot off my mind here. GREAT place to be!

» Posted By choicelady On March 25, 2010 @ 7:59 pm

I LOVE MIke! He once read a letter of mine on the air pointing out his diatribe against Islam was wrong – it’s culture, not that faith, that leads people to some of the biazarre stuff they do. Many Muslims adopt western ways in their own nations, many others are stuck in the Stone Age. He was SO nice to do that.

I am so ambivalent about this, but my friend would have been killed not once but on several occasions had she not answered the door with gun in hand. I now know how to use them (trained by the FBI – how’s THAT for irony) but hope never to take a life or do injury or ever need to be that scared again.

» Posted By choicelady On March 25, 2010 @ 7:57 pm

Sanity – I’m a card-carrying, knee-jerk, bleeding-heart liberal who thinks sometimes you need a gun. For years I supported a woman who had gone “inside” these movements to gather evidence. She was and is a civilian, and her life became untenable. You can hear her and her experiences in an interview she did for “The Story” – Dec.2 last year. It’s in their archive at http://www.thestory.org It aired on many PBS stations. Once not long ago when I was with her, we came under siege from RW people in the woods around her house (long story of why) which stopped only when she went to get her guns from the car, and I SAID that. Once the WORD was uttered, we had no more trouble. Scariest two days of my life.

So yeah. Guns. Sometimes needed.

But it does depend on YOUR having a decent relationship with the local sheriff and being open about it. Makes a huge difference if ever they are called to your place. Knowing someone has a gun gets different responses based on what they know about YOU. And I hope you and your family all know how to use them WELL. An emergency is no time to learn.

I want guns registered. I want urban Saturday night specials banned. I want very tight controls on concealed carry. I want laws on USE of guns very clearly limited to immediate and real threats – not idle fears. NO armor penetrating bullets. I want us to stop substituting human intimacy with gun lust.

But sometimes, even the good guys need guns because the bad guys don’t care what they do to you. And no, I do not have one. Yet.

» Posted By choicelady On March 25, 2010 @ 8:02 am

Showered? Did it work? I have to use bleach.

» Posted By choicelady On March 24, 2010 @ 9:40 pm

August Kreiss (sp?) who headed the Posse Comitatus in Ulysses, PA announced that the Twin Towers was the work of Al Qaeda BEFORE anyone else thought it was anything but a horrific accident. He gloated about it, and a couple of years later when he’d bulled his way into becoming the head of Aryan Nation after the death of its founder, declared his ALLEGIANCE with Al Qaeda! He was so virulently anti-Semitic that he decided that was a good way to go. We’ve never been able to determine if he had prior knowledge of 9/11, but he to date has escaped any kind of prosecution.

When the horrible shootings broke out around DC, one of the hate monitors predicted where the last three shootings would occur because they were forming a pattern of a backward Chi-Rho, the symbol of the Phineas Priests, a movement rather than an organization, that embraced the idea that killing people was their step toward ordination. Paul Hill who murdered an abortion provider and pro-choice escort in FL, was a self-avowed Phineas Priest. Now the two guys who did it were reported seen at (I KNOW this is weird) a white supremacy site before the shootings began. How could a Black man, Muslim convert, be accepted by white supremacists? Back to Kreiss. No one ever checked that report out. Thanks Bush FBI… The hate crime monitor who spotted the pattern was herself working tangentially for the feds, and her predictions were spot on, but that was never checked either. (And no she was not the shooter!)

We are left wondering WTF?

And I saw John Doe No. 2 in Buffalo NY in May 1992. He was near, though not immediately with, Tim McVeigh during the siege of Buffalo in the “Spring of Life”. When we reviewed those tapes of that day, we saw that behind the blue-haired Catholic ladies on the curb across from a clinic were dozens of white supremacists, neo-Nazis, and other extremists who were not obvious because they remained behind the ladies. Only the photographer caught them all on tape.

This uprising of the T party people (GOOD name!) is not new but an extenstion of the 90s violence and hate. What it is today is more bold and more emboldened. They have a target that Bill Clinton did not offer – a Black president, and that has also energized them and restored the cooperation and actions that dwindled off during the Bush years.

So am I scared? Yup. I expect another OK City, a possible assassination attempt, the murder of congressional leaders – something, anything. And I also see already a spiral in hate crimes directed at individuals who are not famous. It’s almost as if the 90s were the practice run, and today is the real thing. Fewer but nastier. And they are trained, armed, and ready.

It’s not if. It’s when.

» Posted By choicelady On March 24, 2010 @ 9:39 pm

Hi everyone!

If it’s any comfort at ALL, I dealt with this in this intensity in investigating hate crimes in the 90s. There were actually MORE of these groups, armed and dangerous, especially after the Estes Park summit following Ruby Ridge (the FBI shoot out with a milita group OK’d by GHW Bush that wound up killing a woman and teenager).At Estes Park, representatives from every wingnut extremist faction was present from militias to anti-abortion to anti-tax. It was there that the nexus among the groups was established and some measure of cooperation was born. There was created the “multi-mission extremists” that prowl the landscape today.

After Waco in 1993 (another FBI shootout with a religious cult accused of child sexual abuse among other things) the intensity rose culminating in the bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City. After that, some things settled a bit, but the intensity of the conspiracy theories grew with myths about ‘flame throwing’ tanks (not) in Waco and other things that simply festered and boiled until Bush was elected.

Those of us who dug out old files see that there are actually FEWER groups now than then. Just as much hate and projection of gummint take over, just as much spittle, just as much racism – so what’s the difference? Why is it so clear that these people are actually a lot more dangerous now than then?

One thing – massively more coverage in the news. They are the entertainment central for both progressive AND conservative 24-hour feeds. Another – MORE elected officials dodging and weaving on support/no support for them but involvement with them nonetheless. Even with the support in Congress for these violent factions, it’s nothing compared to today. That alone changes the dynamic enormously.

This perceived sanction by Republican leadership truly emboldens the extremists. The anti-abortion Dems who voted for the health bill are being treated EXACTLY as if they were abortion providers – the tactics used against them are identical, and those (prochoice or anti-abortion) being threatened come from hubs of anti-abortion extremism: Buffalo, NY; Cincinnati, OH, Canton, OH, Virginia. Stupak is from the area where the Nichols brothers, Tim McVeigh’s cohorts, lived. These people have harbored those who’ve killed before. No reason to think they may not harbor someone who’s ready to kill again.

These targeted congress people have reason to be fearful because no one in their party or on their ideological side is rallying to their cause. Oddly it’s WE who are trying to protect them, even when we do not agree with them. I personally called Stupak’s office to provide some support and comfort. I don’t like what he DID in his threats to women, but I like the way he moved to support health care, and I owe him a thank you and kind word. The woman answering the phone was shell shocked that I was kind. That’s purely sad.

I will say that what WE do, privately and publicly, matters. Calling these reps under siege is crucial. I think we need to write letters to papers saying this is disgusting behavior and calling it out as un-American and (for those who can) un-Christian. The lovely bit tonight on the Planet about what gun would Jesus carry is very funny – but scary to me, too, because these perverts have so twisted the Bible that they BELIEVE Jesus packed – or at least would do so today. NOT true, and it needs to be called out.

I think the media are largely to blame, and I think the Reep leadership is definitely to blame.

Funny – these are the people hollering at the poor, immigrants, moms on welfare, the homeless saying they all need to take “personal responsibility” for their lives.

Wonder when they’re going to step up and take theirs?

No one should be holding his or her breath.

» Posted By choicelady On March 24, 2010 @ 9:19 pm

Shut Up and Listen

KQ – well, that does seem to work in Canada and the UK. I’m not clear in my own mind – as a person who has BEEN the target of hate speech turned to acts – about whether “free” speech has limits. On the face of it, no, but even that takes you in to Absurdistan when the ACLU opposes hate crimes because they “punish thoughts.”

Uh – NO – they punish ACTS for which the motive is to send a message, over and over and over, designed to stop more than just the individual from acting. We assign motive to all crimes, and this is not different, but it IS recognizing that ’cause crimes’ are meant to spread fear to victims around the actual target. So hate crime sentencing is an enhancement equal to the enhaced motive of the act itself. Here I and the ACLU have to part ways – hate crimes are real and are not about “free expression” but about harm. Real harm.

So yes – absolute free speech has NO limits, and I’m not entirely clear that this is what was meant in the Constitution nor necessarily that it is a good thing.

I don’t see Canadians rallying against hate speech limitations, nor Brits, or, well, just about anyone. When speech provokes acts, it is called a ‘true threat’ and there ARE standards in place on what that is and how to deal with it. So we can at least start with what already exists.

Whew – thorny problem.

However – I do think Ann Coulter needs NOT to be gagged but ignored and possibly diminished in her appearances on talk shows anywhere but Faux TV. Maybe she will lose those cushy fees and have to apply for welfare. Would THAT not be fun!

» Posted By choicelady On March 28, 2010 @ 8:12 pm

Hi Voltaire – er – Marion.

I’m one of those people who thinks if she’s being satrical and reaching over the top, it’s not working. But I intensely dislike Bill Maher, too, for much the same reason.

That said, I have come to believe that barring speakers, no matter who, is just not part of the US form of free speech. We on the progressive side whoop and holler when one of our own is barred, but we’re fine with one of ‘them’ being censored. I do agree that money being spent, especially from a collective pot, ought not be unchallenged, but censorship is self defeating.

There are times – and I have championed them – when someone can and should be barred. I helped disinvite a Christian extremist who is a former Nazi (a woman) from speaking at the US Air Force Academy because the Academy has presented NO alternatives EVER to her schtick that the military is there to evangelize. Were she part of a robust debate on this issue, even stretching over years, that would be one thing, but her hosts brought her and others to inculcate our cadets with Christian zealotry. I’m far more oppposed to the HOSTS’ agenda than to her as a simple one-time speaker. She would have been paid out of tax based money, and enough already.

But overall, no. I lived in Canada for a time and think on the whole they are enormously open minded, far more than we overall, but they have pretty strict standards for public speaking on the taxpayer’s nickel. I really do think Ann intended to cross the line, not because of her snark but because now she’s a martyr. It’s more the narcissism of the woman (shared with Bill) than the satire that is the triumphant, dominant note in her presentations.

In the US, I deal with her by 1. not ever watching her, 2. never buying or reading her books, 3. never going to see her. I think the best way to deal with people whom you do not like is voting with your feet – going the other directions.

Yesterday a young man heckled Sarah Palin at her rally for McCain, and my question is: why bother? Now she looks triumphant and a sympathetic person. We used to tell escorts for women seeking entry to clinics just to shut up and NOT argue with the other side, but damned if you could get most of them to do that. And what’s the point? Why argue with zealots since you cannot win, and they FEED on your energies. Thinking of the religious right as “pod people’ who live by taking your vitality, you might want NOT to give them sustenance!!!

Letting the Anns and Bills, for that matter, say their say does NOT mean we have to go or buy or listen or engage in any way with them. But censoring them and then demanding that OUR side be left unmolested to speak is the cheapest form of hypocrisy, and it really gets us nowhere fast.

Thanks, Marion. I think your assessment of Ann is very kindhearted. Even if I don’t agree with it, I DO defend your right to think it, consider it, and SAY it, and I’m in no way offended by your expression of kindness!!!!

» Posted By choicelady On March 28, 2010 @ 2:16 pm

Hey Jesus, Are You Packing Heat?

Sigh. You know, all these RW Jesus-hailing’, gun-lubbin’ nut cases just make my life sooooo much harder. I’m out here trying to wade through the teachings and history and theology and make sense out of it all to promote a world of kindness, inclusion, justice, equity – and these folks trump everthing I do with that freaking ceramic, painted, flower-embellished semi automatic.

No wonder when someone smiles an oily smile and says, “I’m a CHRIS-tyun” I run screaming for cover.

I’d give up, but DAMN, I won’t give them the satisfaction!

I just have one observation. Jesus wore robes. Where would he PUT the damned gun? No pockets. Same as God and the credit card. Where? Just asking.

» Posted By choicelady On March 24, 2010 @ 8:50 pm

The definition of cognitive dissonance, part 2

One of my forebears helped found the Republican party in 1857 as he voice of justice against slavery. MAN am I pissed about what it’s become. OK – no one on my mother’s side has voted Reep since FDR, but how anyone could retain the idea that this party is a party as opposed to a cult is beyond belief. I knew Reeps who were great in the ‘old days’ such as Chuck Percy who supported my brother’s CO status during Vietnam, and John and Lincoln Chaffee who had that old time sense of obligation to ordinary people. How did this all go so wrong? My forebear must be spinning in his grave!

» Posted By choicelady On March 23, 2010 @ 4:53 pm

Just an aside – in Buffalo, NY which was the 3rd-hardest hit city with anti-abortion demonstrations 1988-92, we found yes indeed, the anti-abortion trolls were ALL on disability or Social Security OR welfare! I was testifying in the federal injunction trial when I left home one morning during the middle of my testimony to find what looked like a credit card in the street in front of my house. Was a welfare benefit card in the name of one of the defendants.

That’s how we started learning how they could be there day after day – the taxpayers paid them for their retirement, their “disability” or their “inability” to work. I am sick of accusations against people on welfare – now a 5-year limit – but these guys deserved to be outed. What a rip off! Capable of shoving us around and blockading doors, but not able bodied enough for a job. Must be nice living off the public dole…to foster your anti-government, anti-tax, anti-women, religious right agenda!

I despise these people!

» Posted By choicelady On March 23, 2010 @ 4:47 pm

Hi Pepe – yes, the bill would/WILL help him since the insurance companies may not cap payments as UH appears to have done. Initially it will be for new enrollees, but by 2014 ALL policies will have no annual or lifetime caps, and you – not they – will have picked the level of coverage you want. If UH burns out, if this accident or his lousy attitude cost him his job, he can get immediately (90 days from today) into the high risk pool at rates pegged to his income or free if he winds up at or below 133% of the federal poverty level.

I agree with nellie below who says he may have general anger management problems or personality quirks that make it impossible for him to reason well, but at some point, yes indeedy, he will have some need of this HORRIBLE plan that AWFUL president has MADE us all accept.

Do update us when that happens, will you Pepe?

» Posted By choicelady On March 23, 2010 @ 4:40 pm

Keep Your Head Low and Your Powder Dry

Excellent observations, Vitupe!

As for the stealth part, this is where SueinCA comes in when she gets to “The Family”. Too many of the religious right are swept up in the End Times frenzy (I just read a delicious evaluation of them – calling them “rapture ready”!) and in the manifest ugliness of anti-Americanism to be collectively dangerous. They are losing support because of their brutality.

The Family, however, IS capable of deep and dangerous conspiracies. I think Jeff Sharlet has not even scratched the surface in his terribly scary book. Linking various historical actors, we can see that Family supporters were also involved in the attempted coup against FDR, were supporters of Hitler and fascism in general, and that the Family has deep and abiding ties to the CIA. What ELSE they may have done is pure speculation, but they are deeply engaged in support for tyrants this nation is often working to repudiate but that they continue to fund and endorse.

One wonders if their dab hand was in our own national tragedies.

And they are quiet. I have done corporate power research for decades but never answered the “who is behind” question until Sharlet’s book. I have dealt with the obvious religious right also for decades, and never heard of The Family until Sharlet’s articles in Harper’s. I know some of the players, but I’d never seen the depth of these people’s involvement until the last few years. They are stealth personified, and I truly fear them. They believe nothing, are not interested in being personally ‘rapture ready’ since they are more like Cheney and the neocons in desiring an empire here on earth. Religion is a cover, not a belief. So shining the light of day on them is HUGELY important. And Sue is about to do that, along with what Sharlet has already uncovered.

Full disclosure, full exposure is what shrivels the stealth operators.

» Posted By choicelady On March 24, 2010 @ 10:30 am

Superb! Thank you Whatsthat!

Grandiosity is nothing new. Falling by the way is also not new.

» Posted By choicelady On March 24, 2010 @ 10:13 am

Today’s Historic House Vote on HCR – LIVE FEED AND BLOG

Breaking news: Rep. Lynne Woolsey (D-CA) will introduce a public option bill tomorrow as the President signs the existing health care reform bill!!!!!!

» Posted By choicelady On March 22, 2010 @ 2:45 pm

Reply to below-can’t click anymore!

I think you’re quite right, and that the CBO could make a solid case for a PO inclusion as a responsible budget issue!

» Posted By choicelady On March 22, 2010 @ 12:19 pm

Hi MIghtywood – thank you for the kind words! I do have today off – still in my jammies – but back at it tomorrow.

I agree about the MSM, but the way the religious right got its hold was berating the media and its editors, and I’m thinking we will have to do the same. Nice does not mean wimp!

Many of my activists are older and many retired. NEVER underestimate what a legion of blue haired progressive women and old men with trusses can do. They crack me up with their feistiness!

The media will rue the day they thought we were disposable! My folks don’t holler – but they do keep coming BACK. Sometimes they bring cookies, but they DO keep coming BACK.

» Posted By choicelady On March 22, 2010 @ 11:18 am

That is certainly the most probable option, but if you’re right about this as an amendment to reconciliation and it can be passed with simple majority – then WOW! I just don’t know those rules and will ask around about that.

If so, if you’re right, then we don’t have to wait a year. Reid said he’d raise it SOON, and I’m thinking he might not have said that if it were to be filibustered, so you really may be on to something.

Keep the hope!

» Posted By choicelady On March 22, 2010 @ 11:11 am

Definitely WILL be raised – Reid promised. See Sanity’s recommendation below. I will check that out because if it can be passed by majority vote and not blocked by filibuster, that would be HUGE.

» Posted By choicelady On March 22, 2010 @ 11:08 am

Khirad and AdLib – I totally agree. At the health forum yesterday, one of my friends who is a total single payer fanatic just would NOT deal with the impending vote but kept saying it “only” covered 32 million people. He kept insisting it would leave OUT the newly unemployed who probably raise that figure to 46 million. I finally got exasperated and said the bill did not have numbers but conditions and that it would help everyone without health insurance. I then reminded him this is precisely how Germany and Switzerland started. He pooh-poohed that saying we “should” know better.

Well, we aren’t there yet. Single payer needs a new name (and at the state level Medicare doesn’t work) and a LOT more advocacy and education for ordinary people. I’m working my butt off in CA for the bill, but we are not going to get it nationally save through incrementalism. That is how America WORKS. We aren’t France and England and places that have wage and incomes policies, national planning, etc. We ARE different in our sense of self and government, and it’s no use banging one’s head against it. Smart cookies look to how one works with what one has.

Don’t whine! Organize!

» Posted By choicelady On March 22, 2010 @ 10:41 am

Hi Sanity – yeah, sorry to say, it’s out. I have the 153-page amendment that eliminates ALL the original Reconciliation Bill language that had the PO in it. Once the Amendment trumped the original bill, the PO and some other provisions (allowing undocumented immigrants to purchase insurance in the exchange) were dead for the time being.

Now – you raise a MOST tantalizing issue with the Byrd rule – but since it is not part of the reconciliation act (one per year is all we get)it can’t pass that way. HOWEVER, I wonder if you’re on to something crucial if it’s an AMENDMENT to that act and could fall under the simple-majority Byrd rule? Clearly a PO has major budget savings implications!

VERY clever, Sanity – I will check that out! I freely admit that while I understand a lot about CA political process, Congress baffles me with its arcane rules. I will definitely toss that out to my allies and see what happens! WISE words from you, and many thanks! I will keep you all posted.

» Posted By choicelady On March 22, 2010 @ 10:21 am

Hi and thank you, nellie!

The single biggest supporter who organized us all is Faithful Reform in Health Care. (See http://www.faithfulreform.org – right hand column has all of the linked-in state and national organizations. The letter has more of the local groups that weighed in.) The Executive Director is a tireless woman REv. Linda Walling.

A letter to her would be circulated to all:

Rev. Linda Walling, Executive Director
Faithful Reform in Health Care
3000 Euclid Avenue
Cleveland, OH 44115.

You will see that the reform effort was supported tirelessly by the United Methodist Church, United Church of Christ, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, NETWORK – those pesky nuns who turned Stupak (heehee) – American Muslim Health Professionals, and two major Jewish groups the names of which I forget but are on the sidebar. There are a number of state groups also on the sidebar.

Faithful Reform helped write position papers for the Congressional Black Caucus and, I believe, the Progressive Caucus. We don’t do this from a “religious” view but definitely from a moral frame.

The media have totally ignored us, and the numbers are in the millions of people of faith supporting health reform. My organization alone had hundreds of thousands actively writing, visiting, phoning, emailing Congress. Yesterday I met several people at the synagogue who are on MY mailing list – who knew?

Look – the religious right is a lot more interesting than we are. I know that! But we DO make a difference on policy AND civility that this nation sorely lacks. I got a fair number of clergy to go to town halls last year. They reported how important it was to have “collars” there to calm things – at which point the TV cameras all left.

So yes, nellie – in addition to letters to the faith community, it IS critical that the MSM start acting like reporters instead of the National Enquirer. Brute stupidity is NOT the only story!

Thanks for caring. It means a lot to me! After all the years of work toward this victory, I do feel both elated at the results and a bit like the Maytag Repair Man! So your concern makes my day!!!

» Posted By choicelady On March 22, 2010 @ 10:06 am

The PO is not alive anymore, Khirad. It was in the reconciliation master bill for about 15 hours, then eliminated in the Amendment that is what passed in the second major vote yesterday.

Reid has promised to raise it very soon, and WE who lobby understand that there ARE the votes to pass it, but getting past filibuster will be, as always, highly difficult if not impossible. We cannot do reconciliation since there is one bill per year, and we just did it. But if Reid has any gumption, he will call for filibuster to be the “Mr. Smith Goes to Washington” version – reinstating the “be on your feet and keep talking with everyone else locked in” status it used to have.

Filibuster as a “oh, by the way, I’m filibustering and off to Aruba, see ya” is obscene. Let’s make PROCESS an important part of our advocacy? These things have to mean something, not just be forms of obstruction for obstruction’s sake alone.

» Posted By choicelady On March 22, 2010 @ 9:32 am

I know hockey well enough to get it, but don’t you mean Clyburn? Coburn is the idiot from OK – the doctor, I think he is, who hates patients.

» Posted By choicelady On March 22, 2010 @ 7:51 am

Thank you from me, the professional agitator! I woke to the reports that the supporters of the bill outside the Capitol yesterday were a couple of nuns. Period. NO word at all about the hundreds carrying signs, “People of Faith for Health Care”. When the Dems crossed to the Capitol from the House office buildings, they came as a group, and walked over to this crowd, shook hands, hugged, and were cheered on by those who’d been tireless in support. Did you see THAT anywhere? The faith and secular groups supporting the bill were utterly ignored in the media as if their presence were totally without merit. So THANK YOU, BT, for thanking them and all of us including yourself for working so hard to do what is good for all people.

» Posted By choicelady On March 22, 2010 @ 7:47 am

Nah. Business as usual.

» Posted By choicelady On March 22, 2010 @ 7:43 am

Night Sanity – enjoy the film and sweet dreams!

» Posted By choicelady On March 21, 2010 @ 9:24 pm

When I did the health forum at the local synagogue this afternoon, women were seething about the XO deal with Stupak. I just pointed out – nothing has changed. It is what it has always been. So we can go on.

Stupak got no support did he? His Reep and C Street buds called him a “baby killer” right on the floor. I think he woke up to the fact that his views as a Dem, even an anti-abortion Dem, don’t make him part of that inner circle. He should also know that being a Catholic makes him an automatic outcast at C Street. I’d find another place to live were I he.

Bet the nuns from Network could find him a room. I know a convent where I stayed last year that has space…

I actually felt sorry for him when they turned on him, but I saw the dawning realization that he’d made a bad choice in buddies. That might help in the future.

» Posted By choicelady On March 21, 2010 @ 9:22 pm

Sorry AdLib – it’s out for the moment. Got swept away by the Amendment to 4872, the Reconciliation Act, that wound up amending HR 3590, the Senate Bill that got passed tonight. By my reckoning, the PO lasted about 15 hours. I’m VERY glad we worked it because Reid has promised to raise the issue. There’s still that filibuster thingy, but he heard us!

But do NOT lose heart. It will become obvious very quickly that we NEED a public option. It is the only fiscally responsible thing to do since it would save a bundle.

Sorry to get everyone’s hopes up – the amendment took it out so fast – but our work was NOT in vain!

» Posted By choicelady On March 21, 2010 @ 9:17 pm

You were right to be skeptical. But you never really gave up hope. You were in there pitching! Just being cautious and, in this environment, sensible!

Who knew we’d pull this off!!!!!! Three cheers for the Dems and Obama getting a spine and KEEPING it! Clinton would have caved. Obama did NOT. Hoo-hah!

» Posted By choicelady On March 21, 2010 @ 8:35 pm