Vox Populi, our weekly live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7:00pm PDT. Hope to see you then!
AdLib3 hours ago
Hey CL!
AdLiban hour ago
Hellloooooo? Anybody home? Who’s got the margaritas?
choicelady
an hour ago
I think a couple of us started early on them!
AdLiban hour ago
Hey, AD – fancy talking to you again today! Got my tickets, should hit Civic Center about the same time you do.
choicelady
an hour ago
Hang on – BRB
choicelady
an hour ago
Murph and TW let me know they couldn’t make it tonight so not sure if there will be more than us tonight.
AdLiban hour ago
Sounds perfect!
AdLiban hour ago
I’m back. Well, we can bemoan the SCOTUS or pick something less angrifying.
choicelady
an hour ago
And if that’s not a word, it should be.
choicelady
an hour ago
I like “angrifying”!
AdLiban hour ago
As in “makes one want to puke”.
choicelady
an hour ago
I think Satchell Paige used it. I like it, too.
choicelady
an hour ago
Couldn’t follow the news today, too angrifying. These corrupt SCOTUS hacks have in one year, reversed decades of progress for the US. Now I am angrified by Biden who said he won’t support expanding the court because it would “politicize” the SCOTUS. How out of touch is that view?
AdLiban hour ago
And to be frank, Biden is looking very weak and “old” lately. His voice is whispy and slow. This is not good.
AdLiban hour ago
Don’t waste a second being angry at Biden. He refuses, rightly, not to raise this issue when the votes aren’t there. Some time back he said he WOULD look at it if we had a chance of passing it. I think he’s very rational. He remembers FDR and what happened then.
choicelady
an hour ago
I am indifferent to his persona. RFK, Jr. staged pushups (4) and weight lifts (had someone there helping), so I’m not worried about Joe.
choicelady
an hour ago
If the Dems don’t have the votes for expanding the SCOTUS, at least as a majority, the country is in huge trouble and there is no escape for the expanding Christofascism the SCOTUS extremists have been implementing.
AdLiban hour ago
We don’t have the votes. We CAN if we do well 2024. But he is like Pelosi – don’t waste your energy on symbolic stuff you lose. Hoard your strength for a win.
choicelady
an hour ago
RFK is such a Titan submersible of a candidate, he will implode very soon on his own. Just concerned that some voters who don’t like Trump and voted for Biden last time may not bother to vote for such a weakening candidate. And I like Biden, he’s not weakening on policy but he is barely getting through speeches, I root for him to have a spark but that’s not a great thing to have to do.
AdLiban hour ago
I get that. Biden doesn’t need to insist on expanding the court now but he is strongly embracing tha “wrongness” of doing it and if Dems were in a position to pass that in 2025, his hypocrisy will be detrimental.
AdLiban hour ago
We will always have the snotty “too good to vote” crowd. Had it 2020. But more and more people see what’s going on. Every special election since then has resulted in a Dem win. I don’t think most people feel negative about his speech. They are actually seeing what he’s done. That’s more important.
choicelady
an hour ago
Biden should at least be focusing on how unjust the SCOTUS is, not using inflammatory language but hammering on that and wholly abstainging from any opinion on expanding the court if he would truly support that salvation of the country in 2025 if Dems win back both houses of Congress.
AdLiban hour ago
He is resisting expanding it NOW. He SAID if we have the votes he’d look at it. NOW is absolutely the wrong time. Let’s see who has the power after 2024.
choicelady
an hour ago
He has been focusing on the lack of justice, the reversion to the past, and SCOTUS’ reliance on personal RW opinion. He said all that over the last couple of days. Pulled NO punches.
choicelady
an hour ago
On one hand, there will be very activated voters among women, LGBTQ, students and ex-students struggling with student loan debt, not to mention AAs and Latinos, after all these horrible and corrupt rulings. So we have advantages but it is a bit concerning, how much vigor is lacking in Biden when he speaks. He seems quite old and weak. And I haven’t really given into that criticism before but I saw him speak today and it was a little concerning.
AdLiban hour ago
I wish more pundits – people in the know – would point out how today’s SCOTUS rulings deviate from the norm. No precedent, no legal foundation, and personal whim at play
choicelady
an hour ago
CL – Nope, he didn’t say “now”, here is his quote from yesterday’s MSNBC interview: “”I think if we start the process of trying to expand the court, we’re going to politicize it maybe forever in a way that is not healthy,” Biden said.”
AdLiban hour ago
Ad – so what? He seemed that way 2020. Everyone said so. But people look at his accomplishments. The days of “I want a president I can have a beer with” followed by “I want a president I can grab pussy with” are OVER.
choicelady
an hour ago
This is hugely a mistaken declaration by Biden.
AdLiban hour ago
Today’s comment comes on the heels of the past – there is NO VALUE in telegraphing your wants when your enemies hold a full House. Keeping things under wraps until you can act vigorously is the canny Dem way.
choicelady
an hour ago
CL – Yes, this courts total destruction of precedence AND deciding cases that are phony, lacking standing, even lacking actual injured parties, is a destruction of justice.
AdLiban hour ago
He’s correct. Talk about it now – expanding the court – with NO possibility of getting it done? It becomes a political football. The RW will holler “court packing” and politicize it totally. Keep your powder dry until you can fire the lob across the line. I totally agree with him.
choicelady
an hour ago
Everything you say is true. This court is not just financially corrupt but MORALLY corrupt for departing from law and practice.
choicelady
an hour ago
In 2020, Biden had his moments of gusto, talking tough and loudly. I don’t see him capable of doing that anymore, his age is more pronounced now, his speech is so soft and sometimes hard to hear. This is not an ideal scenario for Dems in 2024, who knows what Biden will be like in a year.
AdLiban hour ago
Well, what do you want to do about Biden? His numbers are up, people are seeing his power in policy accomplishments. Why do we need to be fearful of him – the age of bully he-man is OVER.
choicelady
an hour ago
My fear isn’t that he’s soft spoken. MY fear is there will be a disaster – OKC style – the RW will blame on him.
choicelady
an hour ago
But the problem is, Biden is standing against the acceptance of a majority of Dems on expanding the court. He is saying it is a bad idea and that is the opposite of building support for it. If he does a 180 after being re-elected, he still will have discouraged Dem pols from supporting it. AND, he opposes ending the filibuster. We’re not mindreaders, we don’t know that he really feels the opposite on both issues, he could truly be mired in the past way of thinking and genuinely believe both would be bad for our democrsacy which is just plain dangerous.
AdLiban hour ago
He is NOT doing that. He’s saying NOT NOW. He’s said that several times. And why in the world would you WANT him to give that as a political football to the RNC?
choicelady
an hour ago
He said on the filibuster that it’s no longer HIS CALL. He’s not in the Senate. It’s on us to get out the vote and throw the GOP OUT so these issues can have legs/
choicelady
an hour ago
Remember the quote, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,” Biden may or may not believe expanding the court is a bad thing but by opposing it, he is doing nothing in the face of evil, IMO.
AdLiban hour ago
Everything you’re saying about Biden was said about Pelosi when she soft peddled issues she couldn’t pass. When they CAN pass, there is bravado and celebration! This is wise – keeps the RW off balance.
choicelady
an hour ago
Well, OK – what SHOULD he do then? How should he expand the Supreme Court which failed so spectacularly under FDR? If you want him to “do something” please say WHAT.
choicelady
an hour ago
I think we’re kind of locked in with Biden for 2024 unless he has a health issue. I think his growing weakness in his speech and demeanor will make him more vulnerable in 2024 than he should be but thankfully, against Trump, he is a much easier choice. I do wonder if some may flock to 3rd Party candidates to protest vote against a fascist vs. a weakened, elderly candidate as the choices. Again, I didn’t think the 2020 Biden was in this situation, I was concerned that he was but he had speeches that proved he still had fire in the belly. Nowadays, I don’t see that, I am just concerned at how I feel the need to root for him to get through speeches and answers to the press each time.
AdLiban hour ago
Today he talked about ways AROUND SCOTUS rulings. How to revise the loan forgiveness, how to keep focus on race and related issues in college admissions. His path was stunning. He found alternatives until we CAN reform the court.
choicelady
an hour ago
Well, still and all tell me how we should have him reform the court NOW?
choicelady
an hour ago
CL – Absolutely, killing the filibuster is on Senate Dems if they winn a majority (without Sinema and possibly Manchin) in 2024. The probllem IMO is that Biden is using his bully pulpit to push back against it. He could at least say it’s for The Senate to decide but like expanding the court, he is vocal about fully opposing it.
AdLiban hour ago
That won’t convince more Senate Dems to support it.
AdLiban hour ago
When did he discuss the filibuster lately? I’ve not heard a thing.
choicelady
an hour ago
He has said over and over he won’t discuss what will become a GOP and rotten press political football. It has proven successful w Obama, Pelosi, Biden to NOT allow issues you cannot pass to be appropriated by the Right. Then go for the jugular when you can.
choicelady
an hour ago
Yes, I was glad to see how prepared he and his team were today to lay out new ways around this ruling to help debt-drowning students. On one hand, I think Biden and his Admin are brilliant, effective and progressive. It is the campaign for re-election that concerns me, not the fantastic record Biden has.
AdLiban hour ago
Here is a Biden quote from 2021: “Biden says eliminating filibuster would ‘throw the entire Congress into chaos’
AdLiban hour ago
Our biggest issues are with rotten media. I grew up with journalism at its peak – and it is pathetic today. We need to focus on MAKING media tell the POLICY successes not focusing on Biden’s soft voice.
choicelady
an hour ago
That is not the position of someone who actually supports removing the filibuster.
AdLiban hour ago
Ad – that was TWO YEARS AGO. And he said then if I recall that it wasn’t his call.
choicelady
an hour ago
So? Pelosi refused impeachment for MONTHS until she didn’t. Remove the filibuster, you do have to make sure the Dems are IN CONTROL of the Senate for LONG times or it bites us in the butt.
choicelady
44 minutes ago
You can change rules in ONLY the first weeks of each Congress. We never had the power, even 2023, to eliminate the filibuster. We need more DEMS to change the RULES to make things work better.
choicelady
43 minutes ago
CL – I think Biden and the Dem party should be coming together behind the message of, “If you are as concerned as we are by the extremist path that the MAGA SCOTUS and MAGA GOP are forcing the majority down and destroying so much of the progress weve made in the last 100 years, vote us into power in 2024 and we will restore the rights and respect due every American citizen.” No need to directly say, “Expand the court!” or “Kill the filibuster!”, just a firm contract with the Americvan people that voting them into unified power in 2024 will allow them to reverse this destructive course SCOTUS and Repubs are forcing on us.
AdLib42 minutes ago
What GOP Senators are up 2024? I haven’t seen a list yet.
choicelady
42 minutes ago
Biden did that today, yesterday, the day before. He did EXACTLY that – and who the HELL reported it? Saw it on Twitter not in major media.
choicelady
41 minutes ago
I agree, the media is horrible and happily pumping up Repubs and Trump as equally viable with Dems to push the close competition to get morre viewers and readers. Both-sidesism is corrupt and greedy. I really dislike most media entities for how they’ve worked to hammer Biden while he succeeds on so many fronts so they can have the horse race they can profit from.
AdLib40 minutes ago
It’s why I stay on Twitter – I see things, sometimes live, that I find in no other place. And that’s what REALLY scares me. The media are waffling at best. Bought and paid for at worst.
choicelady
40 minutes ago
CL – There’s no escaping the facts though that Biden repeatedly uses his bully pulpit to attack ending the filibuster and enlarging the SCOTUS, there are zero statements from him even being ambiguous about either and that of course sways any who look to his opinion, pushing them the wrong way.
AdLib39 minutes ago
AGain – BRB – someone at the door. Again.
choicelady
38 minutes ago
I’m back. That was TWO YEARS ago. And no, he will NOT politicize expanding SCOTUS when he has zero leverage but it would be used against Dems. This is rational. It’s the long game.
choicelady
37 minutes ago
Right about Pelosi but she opposed impeachment UNTIL these two massively egregious crimes by Trump with Ukraine and 1/6 occurred, his obstruction of justice and collaboration with Russia was not enough for her. She didn’t change her position, she just responded with positions on situations that were more extreme…though Trump collaborating with our known enemy seemed pretty extreme.
AdLib36 minutes ago
choicelady
36 minutes ago
That’s the point – you don’t telegraph your willingness to do something BIG until you have the ammo to do it.
choicelady
35 minutes ago
See the link I sent. He proposed a commission to look at the courts.
choicelady
35 minutes ago
Don’t have the full list of GOP Senators up in 2024 but I know Tester in MT and Rosen in NV are the two most vulnerable Dems in 2024.
AdLib35 minutes ago
choicelady
34 minutes ago
I support both Tester and Rosen with monthly donations. Sherrod Brown, too.
choicelady
34 minutes ago
CL – Don’t you remember the conclusion of Biden’s panel to study the judiciary? It explicitly stated that expanding the SCOTUS was not a good idea.
AdLib34 minutes ago
So that’s my point – until we get to the point where we can get some traction on that expansion, he’s not going to say he’s FOR it. That’s political suicide w the GOP jumping on ANYTHING to pretend he’s a radical leftiist.
choicelady
32 minutes ago
CL – You need to follow the conclusions of that commission to see it opposed expansion of the SCOTUS: “Biden Panel Wary of Expanding Supreme Court, but Open to Term Limits Preliminary draft materials suggested that adding justices might be seen as a “partisan maneuver,” but said that an 18-year tenure merits “serious consideration.”
AdLib32 minutes ago
CL – If now isn’t the time to capitalize on building greater traction to expand the SCOTUS and dilute the power of these extremists, I don’t know when would be.
AdLib31 minutes ago
And that issue of term limits arose yesterday. He did not oppose it. It is not essential that he is where WE are since it is because of our activism on issues we can give him political cover, and he can shape a path forward when we have the votes.
choicelady
31 minutes ago
When is the TIME? After Dems win 2024 is the time.
choicelady
30 minutes ago
I think the pendulum is moving our direction, but I learned strategy 1972 – you don’t give your best stuff to the other side to mock and destroy. You keep it until you can win it.
choicelady
29 minutes ago
CL – We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this. I think there’s a huge difference between simply not addressing expanding the court and being vehemently against it and helping to convince moderate Dems to remain opposed to it. It would be like someone who is not racist saying they opposd the Civil Rights Act until he saw there was enough support to pass it. It is not ethical to openly oppose something right because you’re afraid you’ll get attacked by saying nothing.
AdLib28 minutes ago
Yes he did, I just provided you his wuote from yesterday wholly opposing SCOTUS expansion on MSNBC, once again, this is his quote, “”I think if we start the process of trying to expand the court, we’re going to politicize it maybe forever in a way that is not healthy,” Biden said.”
AdLib26 minutes ago
People who were for the CRA before there were votes kept it quiet. Once there were the votes, they were vocal. EVERY good policy begins on the QT. Always. Today Biden said that SCOTUS wasn’t “noraml” and expounded at some length on the justices’ pefirdy. That’s the opening wedge on reform.
choicelady
26 minutes ago
CL – My question is, does Biden have to fully oppose something that you and others may think he would support if he had a majority behind it? Couldn’t he just demur from expressing any opinion and stay neutral? Why is it right to say he opposes something when he doesn’t? That’s lying to the American people, it doesn’t help distinguish Dems from lying Repubs.
AdLib23 minutes ago
You do NOT start with “reform the Court”, you start w delegitimizing the one we have. You build a case. You marshal your evidence, you build your BASE, you take stock of possible votes. You do NOT declare, boldly, we’re going to reform the court! He’s doing it the right way. Use these past few days to remind the non voters, naysayers in your own party, that everything HRC predicted has dome true, and this court is off the rails. BUILD the case. Don’t DECLARE it and give ammo to the RW to call you radically out of tough. Establish THEY are the ones out of touch.
choicelady
22 minutes ago
In a way, I think we agree for the most point. Biden shouldn’t be getting out over his skis on expanding the court but if he sees the necessity of it, he shouldn’t be giving aid and comfort to those who oppose that including the entire GOP.
AdLib22 minutes ago
As for the CRA, yes, exactly, keep it quiet. But do you know of any of the main proponents of the CRA who vocally came out to oppose it just to hide their support for it?
AdLib21 minutes ago
He isn’t giving aid and comfort to the GOP – it’s to the worried middle. And that’s whom he needs to pacify and assure. It’s not you and me, it’s not McCarthy – it’s them. And he’s doing it exactly right. Delegitimize SCOTUS making reform INEVITABLE.
choicelady
21 minutes ago
Sure – almost ALL of them opposed it initially! They got brought around. Remember when Obama “opposed” gay marriage equality? It’s a strategy. He didn’t. It’s a way of showing you can look at things differently without fear. That’s how all the best, most durable reforms get done. Building the case, and removing any pot shots the RW can make.
choicelady
18 minutes ago
We have always done best when we do things systematically, quietly going from where people ARE to where we want them to BE. That’s what Obama and Biden are most skilled at doing.
choicelady
17 minutes ago
I think the SCOTUS has fully made the case against themselves that they are not “justices”, that they pervert justice/precedent/civil rights. All Dems need to do is recite the twisted and dishonest decisions they’ve made, the argument is over IMO, the crashing ratings of SCOTUS in polls seem to indicate that. Now is not the time to state that we just have to live with things as they are, it is a time to strike while the iron is hot now that the SCOTUS has stripped the majority of Americans of civil rights they’ve had for decades. I think Biden is wholly wrongheaded in standing up in opposition to expanding the court, it is aid and comfort for the MAGA RW right now. He should at least say, “I don’t know right now what the best way forward is to deal with these corrupt, unethical and extremists on the SCOTUS but it’s important we have justice and respect civil rights in this country.” He can say a lot of things that don’t negate expanding the court but he has chosen to explicitly oppose that. It is a huge mistake IMO.
AdLib16 minutes ago
CL – Agree with your points about how people were turned around after opposing the CRA. But that’s not what you’re saying about Biden, you’re saying he is intentionally misleading the public about his position on expanding the SCOTUS out of concern that not enough people support it yet. The CRA instance is about changing hearts and minds, this propositiion about Biden is saying he’s being dishonest about his opposition to expanding the court for political protection. Not the same.
AdLib13 minutes ago
Biden KNOWS how wrong they are, and his ‘work around’ proposals to day were freaking brilliant at showing the way they shot down righteous proposals. He took the politics out of it by NOT talking expansion, and stood for the ISSUES they effed up. If he keeps affirming the righteousness of the policies they shoot down, if he makes things better for people outside of their rigid ideology, the more political capital he has if we get big wins in 2024.
choicelady
13 minutes ago
NEVER give away your plans. First rule of politics. Stand on the status quo where it’s important. Then bring people around to seeing the status quo is dangerously insufficient. Been true on the big stuff for decades. Still is.
choicelady
12 minutes ago
And I’d suggest based on approval numbers for SCOTUS at record lows in the 30s and likely to dip into the 20s after the recent decisions, the majority is clearly opposed to the current SCOTUS having power. I have not seen a poll showing a majority opposed to expanding the SCOTUS.
AdLib11 minutes ago
Reforming SCOTUS is every much a ‘hearts and minds” issues as CRA. People have a fear of change. If they see his desire to expand the court as naked partisanship, they will vote against him. This is a wise strategy.
choicelady
10 minutes ago
Never giving away your plans means keeping them quiet, not lying bald faced about them. And personally, I don’t believe Biden is lying, I think he is an old school pol who wants to maintain the rules as they have been and try and work within them as he did today to move things in the right direction. I think that’s wrong in the modern day but not coming from a bad place.
AdLib10 minutes ago
Disliking SCOTUS is NOT the same as wanting to change it via expansion. They want ethics rules, etc. more than expansion.,
choicelady
9 minutes ago
He’s not lying – he’s saying the truth. Expansion today would be a disaster. DISASTER. We can’t get the votes, and the GOP would be the ones politicizing it to Biden’s detriment. Saying you oppose expansion is legit. So do I. Now? No freaking way. Not talking about it, not pushing it, nothing yet. Get the votes? Totally on it. Politics isn’t about being nobly for a lost cause. That’s how to be sure it remains a lost cause.
choicelady
7 minutes ago
The public is already there, here’s an article from a poll from last September: “Slim majority of Americans support expanding Supreme Court as confidence wanes”
And this was before all the exposes about the SCOTUS taking bribes and the most recent anti-American rulings. The majority is already on the side of expanding the court. Biden doesn’t need to declare that he wants to do so yet but there is no need to vocally oppose it.
AdLib7 minutes ago
Look at the Squad and Bernie who come out demanding things NOW. They never get them. Lots of reasons, but one is – showing your strategy when it’s vulnerable. Good leaders don’t do that. They opt for the status quo. That’s legit in the here and now.
choicelady
6 minutes ago
Polls don’t mean a thing. The RW would bash Biden and expansion, and that support would crash quickly. But lead people to wanting it on their own? It’s durable. I never favor public declarations over stealth.
choicelady
5 minutes ago
You’re misstating what Biden said, he said yesterday that it would be a disaster to expand the court because it would permanently make the SCOTUS look political. That is, frankly, oblivious. Once McConnell and the Senate denied Obama the right to appoint a justice and rammed through Coney Barrett, the SCOTUS was plainly a political vehicle which is now issuing political decisions, not legal ones. The SCOTUS is already political and Biden should recognize that, he should instead declare that he will right the ship of justice and equalize the SCOTUS back to being a servant of justice and the Constitution by appointing deserving and thoughtful judges.
AdLib3 minutes ago
We can carry this on in an Uber! Got the injections yesterday, and my eyes are still blurry at night. So I’m going to wrap up before I start typing any worse. Even as a fair touch typist, seeing is very useful. I will say Biden will never declare a policy he cannot deliver. No wise leader will. He is doing this right. It’s now on us to deliver the votes so he CAN reform the court. There is NO other way to do it well.
choicelady
a few seconds ago
That’s not the argument I’m making. I’ve said repeatedly that it would be fine for Biden to keep his cards close to his chest for now. I haven’t said sanywhere that he should proclaim court expansion must take place right now, not at all. Since neither you nor I know what is really in his mind, I think we should at least consider he is a relatively honest man who earnestly believes that expanding the court could permanently politicize it in a detrimental way. That is a legit opinion though I think it is old fashioned and wrongheaded.
AdLibin a few seconds
So I bid you a good night. See you next week. Hope it won’t be too hot down there – 108 here tomorrow. Ugh! Take care – be well. Safe flight to SF on Thursday.
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