Vox Populi, our weekly live chat about the week’s events starts tonight at 7:00pm PDT. Hope to see you then! AdLib 3 hours ago

Hey glenn! Happy Georgia Day! AdLib an hour ago

Hey Ad–Indeed! A happy day in Georgia! We found a repuke with integrity! glenn an hour ago

And djtrumpjr has COVID 19! So sad! glenn an hour ago

Greetings Glenn and Ad! MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Hi Murph! How are you? glenn an hour ago

Hey Murph! AdLib an hour ago

Hey PPO! AdLib an hour ago

Hey PPO–How are you and Fergie? glenn an hour ago

Happy Birthday, Joe! pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Glenn…dad’s legacy for his heir. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Doing ok….. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

PPO….and Fergie……feeling better? MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Hi everyone. Fergoi is OK just now, DG. We’re muttering along as usual. pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Murph–what a legacy. Is it wrong of me to hope jr. gets very, very sick? glenn an hour ago

glenn – Your SoS may be the last decent Republican in government! AdLib an hour ago

Love that the Mi GOP told Trump where to shove it pinkpantheroz an hour ago

PPO–Glad you’re here with us. glenn an hour ago

..or was it Wi? pinkpantheroz an hour ago

PPO – Good to hear Fergie is okay but hope she feels better and better. AdLib an hour ago

Ad–No kidding. A decent repuke is hard to find. glenn an hour ago

The governor here got jeered at by the state press corps for his unwillingness to speak honestly about the need for state wide making, distancing, sanitizing, and limiting gatherings. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

thanks, glenn. missed last week, but that was a one off, thank goodness. Future eye injections will be on fridays pinkpantheroz an hour ago

PPO–If you’re talking about the repukes who told the RTLB they would follow the law, then it is MI. glenn an hour ago

Mi it was! Thanks g pinkpantheroz an hour ago

The dam is really breaking. Repubs coming out at a trickle so far but it will soon be a flash flood as they try to get out of the Coup Camp before it collapses on them. AdLib an hour ago

BRB… AdLib an hour ago

Don’t trust Romney! pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Murph–I have a question for you. Wasn’t the electoral college set up for exactly what the RTLB wants it to do? IOW, thwart the will of the people if the electors determined that voters didn’t know what was “best”? glenn an hour ago

Glenn I found the Michiganders who came to the WH today response wonderful…”nothing to see here, learned nothing that alters our voting….” the thud in the background was Trump faceplanting. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Murph–repuke governors are going to be repuke governors. glenn an hour ago

Glenn….electors were named by the state legislature qne MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago


pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Murph – Good to hear, your Gov is as destructive as they come. AdLib an hour ago

Someone mentioned onTwitter that an 1800 law obliges the States to declare for the Pop vote winners. Against the law to do otherwise. So can we relax a little? pinkpantheroz an hour ago

PPO – Oh no, don’t turn your back on Romney, he knows exactly what sharp utensil he can insert into it. AdLib an hour ago

Glenn…electors were named by the state legislatures and were to follow following trends in their states…recall that only men, almost all white, and property owners could vote. The legislatures set the rules for elector conduct. In very little time electors were bound to specific candidates and voting for the candidate meant voting for electors who suppported that candidate. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

–why anyone would think they would learn anything by going to meet with the RTLB is beyond me. glenn an hour ago

glenn – The EC is a remnant of slavery, giving states ultimate power over elections…especially black votes. It is archaic and ridiculous. It has to go. AdLib an hour ago

PPO and Glenn…an issue resolved a few years back was that if an elector is “faithless” i.e. does not vote for the candidate they were declared for then they could be punished…..fines, jail? Not clear. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Murph–so, what was it that “bound” the electors to specific candidates? glenn an hour ago

I love it that the 2 guys statement says they discussed other matters, then just quietly kicked him in the nuts. pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Ad–I agree the EC has to go. I think we discussed this in another VOX, but I forget. Does it require a constitutional amendment to abolish the EC? glenn an hour ago

Glenn….electors declared that they were “for” a candidate ticket. If that ticket won the popular vote those electors were bound to vote for him (and now maybe her) in the electoral college. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Glenn…..EC required. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

My proposal for what Dems should do politically from now until 2024, is promote and get passed in the remaining states needed, the National Popular Vote Bill. They have the majority of 270 EVs through states that have passed it, once it hits 270, the Electoral College will be defunct. Here’s a link: https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/state-status AdLib an hour ago

Glenn….EC elimination requires a change in the constitution. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

So, Murph, I’m still not understanding…sitting low in my seat tonight….what “binds” an elector to a candidate? glenn an hour ago

What Ad is pointing to is what must be done. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Murph–so electors could decide which candidate they were “for” and were bound to that candidate. What if that candidate did not win the popular vote? glenn an hour ago

Why isn’t lindsay graham not in prison? pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Murph – Check the National Popular Vote Bill out, its passage in sufficient states provides a workaround for ignoring the EC without passing a constitutional amendment. AdLib an hour ago

Ad–Never heard of the National Popular Vote Bill, but that certainly is a good idea. glenn an hour ago

Glenn….the electors declaration that they will vote for candidate A. If A gets the most votes those electors are bound to vote for A. There have been cases of electors being “faithless” (not many) and there have been efforts to hold them to account. SCOTUS has judged this to be constitutional. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

PPO–Lindsay is not in prison because IOIYAR. glenn an hour ago

Of course, g! pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Ad….I have read the bill…..and the workaround is interesting but I think there are grounds for very serious challenges and given the makeup of the SCOTUS now…..well…. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

The way the NPV works is that states agree to commit their EVs to whoever wins the national popular vote. So it doesn’t get rid of the EC but makes it moot and winning states moot. They have states with 196 EVs signed on, as soon as that reaches 270, it becomes active. Don’t forget, 7 out of the last 8 presidential elections, Dems have won the popular vote. AdLib an hour ago

Murph–hopefully, the makeup of SCOTUS will change soon. glenn an hour ago

Ad–That is an interesting workaround of the EC. glenn an hour ago

how about Rudi’s meltdown, fiuratively and literally? RTLB must be totally desperate if Ruby is all he can afford as counsel pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Ad……here is the other side of the NPV debate….https://www.heritage.org/civil-rights/report/the-national-popular-vote-misusing-interstate-compact-bypass-the-constitution MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Murph – I disagree, the Constitution clearly gives states the right to decide how elections will be run in their states and how electors will be awarded. Nothing in the Constitution to prevent a state deciding to use the national vote as a determining factor. AdLib an hour ago

Ad–the NPV would, it seems to me, prevent the calling of the election until ALL states have voted. glenn an hour ago

Rudy and the other attorneys spin webs of deceit in public appearances and then go to court and spin a lot of nothing because there they are accountable to judges who demand a logical, evidence based argument. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

PPO – While Rudy literally melted down, he caused the rest of Trump’s Clown Car Legal Team to have to quarrantine for COVID. So over the next two weeks as states certify Biden the winner, he has no legal team! AdLib an hour ago

PPO–That meltdown was so bizarre. Didn’t he feel that stuff running down his cheek? It just shows how really stupid Rudy is. glenn an hour ago

From Twitter: Trump just lost Georgia for the third time today, but that’s not even his worst news. A SDNY federal judge just removed the DOJ from ⁦ @ejeancarroll ⁩’s defamation lawsuit and ordered his high priced legal team back on the job at his expense. Oops! pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Murph…don’t rely on The Heritage Foundation for even an aspirin . AdLib an hour ago

Ad…I agree with you but there are counter arguments….my link takes you to a number of them….and we have a SCOTUS that I think will find some compelling. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Don Jr. Has COVID-19. pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Did you all see how the WH Press Corps reacted to the Pence COVID Crowd making mock presentations and then leaving the briefing room without taking questions? An uprising. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Ad…why is Giuliani’s team in quarantine? MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Murph – Hey, Trump has counter-arguments for why the election should be overthrown. Heritage is terrified of losing the Repub advantage in the EC and will throw out all kinds of weak charges against something that takes it away. It is a non-realistic claim to think an interstate agreement is unconstitutional. No real grounding for that lame argument. AdLib an hour ago

Murph–the goal of all this spin is not to win in court; the RTLB and his team know deep down, that they are not going to win. The goal of all this is to make sure that his cult members can keep repeating these lies ad nauseum. It’s just giving them justification for voting for a loser, because he didn’t “really lose”. And, if you throw out all the Democratic precincts that would, of course, be expected to vote for the Democrat, then the RTLB didn’t “really lose” either. Because, only repuke votes count, dontcha know? The point is to sow discord, the RTLB’s go-to maneuver. glenn an hour ago

Murph – Giuliani’s son has COVID and Rudy was around him then around his whole legal “team”. They are all out of action now! Don Jr. has COVID now too! AdLib an hour ago

Ad….time will tell. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Ad….so is Giuliani out too…. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

yes, Ad! pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Will Pfizer take pity and give them first dibs at the vaccine? I think so, so that they get FDA approval pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Glenn…and energy generated by the anger you describe among the Trump cultists creates a permanent money giving, crowd gathering, street marching, base….the Trumpistas……this should be scaring the shit out of the GOP. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

PPO–And, as I said above, I hope DJTJ gets very, very sick. glenn an hour ago

Murph – There’s a very simple solution to this lame charge by HF. Just do the NPV independently if SCOTUS was to oppose it. By then, all the necessary states would have passed the bill and state legislatures can just pass a bill to do so independently. AdLib an hour ago

glenn, with you on that. pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Maybe Giuliani and the rest of his circus sideshow should just take hydroxychloriquine? AdLib an hour ago

murph, the Tea Party was as feral as this lot, but have faded away. Hopefully these cretins will as well. pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Or the poison that the My Pillow guy wanted to sell. AdLib an hour ago

My Pillow posted the bond for the White Supremacist shooter. What a Dick! pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Ad….perhaps…..I can see a SOTUS decision that declares that measure is an effort to subvert the intention of the framers, i.e. the Holy Grail of the Right, and thus the efforts of individual legislatures are not permissible. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Murph–I agree, it SHOULD be scaring the shit out of the gop. However, I don’t see any signs of that; they’re still the same, silent enablers they’ve been for the past four years. I think they thought they could control the monster they created with the tea party and the RTLB, but the monster has turned on them and they don’t have the guts to stand up to them. glenn an hour ago

PPO…the TP was a device funded by a half dozed billionaires and promoted by a network…when it was of no further use….it was defunded and Fox stopped talking about them. In this case the Trumpistas actually exist apart from external structures. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Ad–giuliani and his cohorts should just inject bleach. It’s quicker. glenn an hour ago

Murph – There’s a flip side for that though. Maybe after draining his cult of money year after year, they might not be into donating more as the economy struggles and they and their community get sick. Right now it feels like the momentum is really turning against Trump. Polls, for what they’re worth, show Biden in the 60s on approval and rising, Trump is falling into the low 40s, high 30s. This scheme is backfiring among most, maybe not the core cultists but they are still a fraction of his voters. AdLib an hour ago

Glenn…..the TP was a device funded by a half dozed billionaires and promoted by a network…when it was of no further use….it was defunded and Fox stopped talking about them. In this case the Trumpistas actually exist apart from external structures. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

PPO–not sure that the tea party has gone away; they have just morphed into “this lot” as you say. glenn an hour ago

I hope repeal Of Citizens United is high on 46’s agenda, then the Kochs and their ilk can eff off and just die. pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Ad…for him to remain a potent force 30 percent seems to be the number to look for. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

PPO – Yep, My Pillow guy and Ricky Schroeder from Silver Spoons both helped bail out the racist murderer. Schroeder has made a quick exit from Twitter for Parler. He’s from Staten Island so maybe not so surprising. AdLib an hour ago

Ad….when people who are dying of COVID are recorded declaring that they Stand with Trump against the hoaxers…..reality seems to have little to do with their decision making. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Murph – Sorry but that’s not even on the table. The Founders gave the full right to decide how elections an Electors are decided to the states. There is nothing in the constitution that dictates to states how to award their electors. Nothing. AdLib an hour ago

Murph–maybe. If the trumpistas, don’t get the oxygen from the RTLB, then they will have much less “clout”. Oh, they’ll still get to be on TV whining about what a raw deal the RTLB got, but I do believe it will be far fewer soon. glenn an hour ago

Ad….the original intention gambit is how so many right leaning decisions get made. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Glenn….here is hoping. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Well, it is encouraging that so many of the frivolous lawsuits are being kicked out – with prejudice, so they can’t refile! pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Murph – Consider this. The GOP represents about 31% of Americans. So a fraction of that is a small fraction of the population. AdLib an hour ago

Since the purpose of the electoral college is rooted in maintain a “balance” such that a cluster of states could fix the presidency (the fear of the Southern States in 1791) that intention could tangle efforts like those you describe. What I never tiring of saying is that the word State meant Country in the 18th century and the retaining balance was seen as a key to keeping what was fundamentally an Alliance together. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Evening all. The EC must die so we can live. choicelady an hour ago

Ad…..what does that 31 percent represent? Looking at the makeup of state governments, and even the results of the current Presidential election…..does that 31 percent hold up? MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

PPO– Supposedly, the remaining Koch brother has “regrets”: Speaking to the Wall Street Journal, the billionaire who, along with his late brother, David Koch, has arguably done more to harm society than nearly anyone in modern history, said he now regrets dividing the country by plowing billions of dollars to Republicans in order to further his anti-regulation, anti-health care, anti-social services, anti-taxes, anti-doing-anything-whatsoever-to-stop-climate-change agenda. “Boy, did we screw up!” he essentially writes in his new book Believe in People: Bottom-Up Solutions for a Top-Down World. “What a mess!” Which might be acceptable if he was apologizing for, like, sending out invitations to a congressional mixer with the wrong date on them, and not for burying the planet in a shallow grave, among other things. ” glenn an hour ago

Link: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/11/charles-koch-what-a-mess glenn an hour ago

glenn – totally agree about the power of Koch. choicelady an hour ago

cl! pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Murph – But here is another proposition of mine. Once Trump loses the big stage of being president AND is being criminally prosecuted in NY AND is going bankrupt from $1 billion in debts being called in within the next 2 years AND suffering huge losses in his business because no one is going to his properties to curry favor…his power will shrink greatly and the fervor of his fans will dissipate. AdLib an hour ago

Hey CL! AdLib an hour ago

Hey PPO! How are you and Fergie! choicelady an hour ago

If Koch has really had a change of heart….let him put his money were his big mouth is. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Hi Ad and glenn and Murph – good to see you. choicelady an hour ago

Ad–Yeah, now that they’re being held somewhat accountable for their lies on twitter, so many rightwingers are moving to Parler. glenn an hour ago

Ad…that is the scenario that Hope will become reality…..a sort of Palin Epilogue but far worse. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Hey CL–good to “see” you. Ho are you? glenn an hour ago

Murph – Kochs have been pushing the anti democracy platform for YEARS. They are now in league with Dominionist religious extremists, too. choicelady an hour ago

Hey choice…spirited debate here tonight. MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

glenn – doing OK. choicelady an hour ago

glenn – How are YOU? Hooray for GA! choicelady an hour ago

CL…which is why the Koch “reform” is more hooey! MurphTheSurf3 an hour ago

Murph – When a right is Constitutionally assigned to the states, there is no “backsies” for the SCOTUS to claim should move a power froim states back to them/the Feds. It’s a doomed argument. AdLib an hour ago

Murph – sorry to be late – trying to coordinate TWO PEOPLE in lockdown is proving difficult. choicelady an hour ago

getting by, CL, thanks. Echocardiograph Dec 1. But weight now steady. Optimistic. pinkpantheroz an hour ago

Ad–I hope you are right about the RTLB’s cult members. I hope they are relegated to the ash heap of shame. glenn 44 minutes ago

Ad…SCOTUS can do what it wants to do if the votes are there no matter this works against precedence in its operations. MurphTheSurf3 44 minutes ago

PPo – VERY good she’s holding on in weight. May the ECC show what needs doing. And that you can do it! choicelady 44 minutes ago

CL….how is it that you are doing that good deed. MurphTheSurf3 43 minutes ago

CL – That’s one of the things we’re discussing. I think Dems should focus on passing the National Popular Vote in states needed to put it over the top. Then the EC is gone without a constitutional amendment. AdLib 43 minutes ago

thanks, cl. We hope so too pinkpantheroz 43 minutes ago

Murph – I don’t think SCOTUS is that rogue. They are mindful of precedent whether Amy is or not, and of their legacy. With ALL the states w GOP legislatures now on board with Biden and with Roberts and even Gorshuch embarrassed by Trump, I don’t see them going rogue. Just don’t. choicelady 43 minutes ago

glenn – I saw that but I would never believe a Koch. He was supporting the same RW causes this election cycle. Like most RW types, he’s all about propaganda, not to be trusted. AdLib 42 minutes ago

Ad – I don’t think getting rid of the EC is that easy. choicelady 42 minutes ago

CL….my point re. SCOTUS was in regard to the discussion that Ad and I are having per the National Popular Vote state movement. MurphTheSurf3 41 minutes ago

Murph–exactly. As the article says, Koch isn’t apologizing. And further on in the article, it notes that he is pouring billions into Perdue’s and Loeffler’s campaigns here in GA. If he really wanted to unite the country, he’d donate to Ossler and Warnoff to give Biden a unified Senate and House. All talk, no cattle. glenn 41 minutes ago

Murph – I do think we will need a CA not just a statute to gut the EC. choicelady 41 minutes ago

CL…..AD…..and let the next round begin. MurphTheSurf3 41 minutes ago

Glenn….Koch was, is and will be a scoundrel. MurphTheSurf3 40 minutes ago

Murph – hell’s bells, I’m not recovered from the FIRST round, thank you. choicelady 40 minutes ago

CL….we are on the same page I think… MurphTheSurf3 40 minutes ago

glenn – You made a great point about this, look what happened to the Tea Party once their main financiers and manipulators moved on. They disappeared. Even RWs like Koch don’t want the manic Trump back, the Repub powers that be will not be blowing wind into his sails and he will be buried with debt, trials and a failing business. AdLib 40 minutes ago

Ad–agreed not to trust him. I just thought it was interesting he even said it. glenn 40 minutes ago

Murph – States can do what they want to do if the SCOTUS intrudes on their constitutional rights. AdLib 39 minutes ago

Ad….once more you lift the Palin Epilogue up for our salutation and praise. MurphTheSurf3 39 minutes ago

CL–same old, same old here. Yea! I live in a blue state now. For how long, I don’t know, but I’ll take what I can get! glenn 39 minutes ago

AD……states are subservient to SCOTUS in practice unless we return to the idea of secession. MurphTheSurf3 39 minutes ago

glenn, maybe the fact that the Grim Reaper’s hands are on his shoulder is making him try and hedge his bets. pinkpantheroz 38 minutes ago

Glenn….it is stretch to consider GA Blue- it requires blueness in the state government as well. MurphTheSurf3 38 minutes ago

glenn – I agree, but look at Rob Schenck, former co-head of Project Rescue who is trying to “reinvent” himself. I have evidence he was in league with James Kopp, the man who murdered abortion provider, Bart Slepian. Can’t prove it, and the cops agree w me. But something necessitates his reinvention to mainstream. AND I DO NOT TRUST HIM AT ALL. choicelady 38 minutes ago

CL–What do you think the chances are of getting a CA regarding the EC. glenn 38 minutes ago

glenn – I thought it was interesting too but as soon as I start reading any quote from a Koch, my spidey-sense tingles, I look at it as strategic, to manipulate. Koch will never be a get-along guy, everything he does is to serve his goals. AdLib 37 minutes ago

glenn – figure the votes. It’s the states in the middle that will NOT likely support it. It will be harder than the ERA. choicelady 37 minutes ago

Thanks, Ad. I do think it’s going to take time for the RTLB’s cult to fade away, but hopefully they will…. glenn 36 minutes ago

PPO–Absolutely. I hope the grim reaper takes him soon. He is an evil man! glenn 35 minutes ago

Very few RW people, secular or religious, actually have a “come to the REAL Jesus” moment in their lives. VERY few. choicelady 35 minutes ago

An aside….I would not be surprised if Trump has a major mental/emotional breakdown and follows Hughes’ lifestyle example but at Mira Lago. MurphTheSurf3 35 minutes ago

Does anyone know if the Republicans can ever recover from being the promoters of RTLB and his insanities? pinkpantheroz 35 minutes ago

If we want to be devious, we should sow seeds of distrust between the atheist Koch contingent and the Dominionists. Hee hee hee. choicelady 34 minutes ago

Murph–yeah, I know about the blue….just like to bask in the fact that we turned blue for at least the presidential election. Also, we have a RINO SOS, according to the repukes, so that helps too. glenn 34 minutes ago

PPO….Trump is not their only problem, Q Anon, Right Wing Thinking in the Form of the Militia Movement, and the general decline of the quality of life in very red states are just as frightening. MurphTheSurf3 34 minutes ago

PPO – even the core supporters who are now the Lincoln Project and Never Trumpers think they cannot go back to the party, need a new one. choicelady 34 minutes ago

Murph – it’s those reasons: QAnon, terrorists, etc. that drive the Big Guys out. choicelady 33 minutes ago

We in Australia are petitioning for a Royal Commission Investigation of Murdoch’s monopoly and break it up. pinkpantheroz 33 minutes ago

PPO – HOORAY!! choicelady 33 minutes ago

CL..yup. MurphTheSurf3 32 minutes ago

Murph – It would be the same situation we’re having with Trump right now. Trump is trying to declare that state legislatures have rights that they don’t have. The SCOTUS would have to go so rogue, to the point of not basing a decision in law, to claim that states don’t have the rights they are constitutionally given. At that point you have a constitutional crisis and states would be right to refuse to follow an unconstitutional decision by the SCOTUS. BTW, remember what the Trump Admin did after SCOTUS declared they had to resume DACA. They ignored it. And what happened to them? Nothing. The sustem of government we have works on respect for the powers of each branch. You’re proposing that if one branch disrespects the power of another, that theirs would continue. It would be self-destructive if the SCOTUS made clearly unconstitutional rulings, they would and should be ignored then by the states, returning the favor of disrespecting the powers granted each branch by the Constitution. AdLib 32 minutes ago

CL–Yeah, I don’t think these kind of men actually regret their evil; they just regret that they aren’t as effective with their evil as they were before. glenn 32 minutes ago

Murdoch is one of a number of media moguls who are a concern. MurphTheSurf3 32 minutes ago

CL–That was my take on the EC vote, too. Do you think Dems will push to start a CA? glenn 31 minutes ago

Murph – I’ve thought the same thing, Trump seems ripe for a mental breakdown if he isn’t already having one. And wait until everything waiting for him falls on his head after Jan 20th. AdLib 31 minutes ago

Ad…my point is that in this discussion we are having we come back to a reality: our constitution paradigm is innately unstable. MurphTheSurf3 31 minutes ago

Ad – SCOTUS would have to overturn their summer ruling, a 9-0 on EC elctors having to follow state law AND 1000 years of NO EX POST FACTO laws. What’s ON a state’s books is what prevails at the TIME OF THE VOTE. This would be a declaration of war to all of us if SCOTUS overturns it’s own damned self. choicelady 31 minutes ago

Ad…so the horror you are putting forth is possible…… MurphTheSurf3 30 minutes ago

how many of you join me in castigating the WHPC for only now, 4 years later, having the balls to call out RTLB pinkpantheroz 30 minutes ago

Murph – I don’t think it’s ALL innately unstable, but we need to realize we have a whole party engaging in magical thinking and that requires statutory shoring up. choicelady 30 minutes ago

Ad–I think the RTLB is already having a mental breakdown, but as usual, repukes are covering it up/ignoring it. glenn 30 minutes ago

PPO – What I think we learned after Obama was elected and Repubs won back Congress in 2010 is that Americans have extremely short memories. I hate to say it but I don’t think the GOP will suffer long term damage from being associated with Trump. But staying extremist will hurt them. AdLib 29 minutes ago

Murph–is there anything, in your opinion, that make our constitution more stable? glenn 29 minutes ago

CL….I re. the model of an independent executive branch that can govern in isolation from the legislative and can shape the executive as a very bad design. MurphTheSurf3 29 minutes ago

glenn – IF they think it can pass, yes. If not – not now. choicelady 29 minutes ago

CL – I like that idea of the Dominionists and Koch locked in a death match. AdLib 29 minutes ago

…that would make our constitution more stable? glenn 28 minutes ago

Murph – yes, but that’s why we need new and better laws. choicelady 28 minutes ago

glenn, he will never concede. but that is moot. #46 happens on Jan 20. Apparently trump retweeted a parody email from ‘his sister’! pinkpantheroz 28 minutes ago

Ad…here is who had long memories…those who hated having Obama in the WH and what that represented….they looked for someone to turn that on its head…and his initials are DT MurphTheSurf3 28 minutes ago

PPO–joining you for sure. glenn 28 minutes ago

Ad – Libertarian/Dominionst Cage Fight. Except for the fact it’s fat old men, it holds some allure. choicelady 27 minutes ago

BRB- choicelady 27 minutes ago

Glenn…..it is a good question….frankly….no. MurphTheSurf3 27 minutes ago

Murph – I understand but here’s my point in a nutshell. If the SCOTUS decided a case claiming that women didn’t have the right to vote, it would be plainly unconstiutional. Would they ever do that? I think not. If they did, would states abide by it? I think not. So the SCOTUS only has standing as long as they follow the Constiution. They can have unpopular decisions but if a decision explicitly violates the Constiution (or amendments like sufferage), they lose their power. AdLib 26 minutes ago

OK, folks, time for me to depart to weeding duties! See you all next week, closer to THE DAY!! pinkpantheroz 25 minutes ago

We have three really extremist judges – Alito, Kavanaugh, Barret. The rest are variable to solidly Constitutional. choicelady 24 minutes ago

CL…but who makes those laws, and then who enforces them and then who adjudicates re. the nature of the laws and their application…..we get back to where we started. McCain Feingold was an excellent start in campaign financing and it was designed to be the first of a series of stepped reform….and it was support broadly on both sides of aisle….within two years the legislature was cannibalizing it, the executive was ignoring it, and the judiciary was declaring that it was wrong headed and the money had a voice. MurphTheSurf3 24 minutes ago

Good night PPO! choicelady 24 minutes ago

CL – Agreed! Roberts and others on the SCOTUS know that the only power they have is the respect of the people and the states. If they were to attack the rights of the people and the states, disobedience would follow. Not a risk any SCOTUS wants to get close to. AdLib 23 minutes ago

IF we get the Senate, we can revive McC-Feingold. We can pass laws curtailing if not money, secrecy which makes money nervous. choicelady 23 minutes ago

Ad…you pick a case that makes your argument work….fair enough. How about Homosexual Marriage? Think that would follow the route you lay out? MurphTheSurf3 23 minutes ago

CL…a virtually 50/50 senate will have a hard time getting the support that revival will require. MurphTheSurf3 21 minutes ago

Murph – But I think those same people were racist and authoritarian before Obama. He was just a rallying cry for the racists, they will continue to be here, true but their numbers can be diminished once a president is not cheering them on. AdLib 21 minutes ago

Murph – might be hard. Doesn’t mean impossible w Harris as the tie breaker. choicelady 21 minutes ago

Ad….oh, I agree…..they were there and they organized to undo Obama…..and they are still very much with us. MurphTheSurf3 20 minutes ago

CL – It would be a slow motion cage match with Bill Barr and Koch in the cage but I’d still pay to watch them knock each other around. AdLib 20 minutes ago

I want to make filibusters mean something. Mr Smith Goes to Washington types of filibusters – on your feet, clad in your Depends, until you drop. No paper submitted and off to Aruba. choicelady 20 minutes ago

Ad–have to agree with your assessment of gop suffering long term damage. With that in mind, do you think the never trumpers and Lincoln Project members will have any influence on the gop in the coming years? I believe that as long as they are former members of Congress, or former cabinet members, party honchos, etc. that they don’t have a chance. I think they need to start supporting/running candidates to change the “nature” of the gop. glenn 20 minutes ago

CL…but McCain Feingold passed with broad bipartisan support and it barely made it out of the gate before it was being dissected. MurphTheSurf3 20 minutes ago

Ad – Barr is not going to represent the Dominionists. It will be Hagee. choicelady 19 minutes ago

Glenn…one of m problems with our system is that it locks in a two party system making the formation of a third reform party nearly impossible. MurphTheSurf3 19 minutes ago

Murph–then we will be continuing lurching from one extreme to the other? glenn 18 minutes ago

Murph – we have to try. And it was dissected by a GOP Senate. If we have and can keep both houses, we will strengthen the good legislation. choicelady 18 minutes ago

Glenn…I think so. MurphTheSurf3 18 minutes ago

glenn – we MUST return CIVICS to our school curricula. MUST. choicelady 18 minutes ago

CL…we would have to have and hold long enough for the reform to become widely accepted….. MurphTheSurf3 18 minutes ago

Murph – whoever takes DNC, and I’d pump for Abrams, needs to push downticket hard. choicelady 17 minutes ago

CL…and civics was methodically removed fromt he curriculum in both blue and red states…why? stupid voters are very malleable. MurphTheSurf3 17 minutes ago

Murph–that is part of my question to Ad regarding never trumpers and the Lincoln Project. Do you think they have the clout/means/whatever to begin a third party? Or will they continue as republicans or independents? glenn 17 minutes ago

Murph – Gay marriage is interpreted to be constitutional. The SCOTUS can interpret laws one way or back the other. That is a different thing. An explicit right given in the constitution, like the 2nd Amendment, must prevent the SCOTUS from declaring all guns illegal to everyone. They can’t do it without violating the Constitution. The right for states to determine how electors are chosen is explicit in the Constitution, there is no interpreting an explicit power. AdLib 17 minutes ago

Abrams is someone I admire a lot because her organization principle is grounded in education and awareness. MurphTheSurf3 16 minutes ago

Murph – this started in the mid 1970s. The GOP did not want another well informed student movement. My mother retired over such crap. choicelady 16 minutes ago

CL–civics and civility. glenn 16 minutes ago

Ad…..I re. the SCOTUS as innately uncontrollable. MurphTheSurf3 16 minutes ago

glenn – civility YES. choicelady 16 minutes ago

CL – I would kind of like to see filibusters go away but if they required a physical filibuster as in the old days, maybe I’d support that. Though I think it mostly hurts democracy nowadays because it would continue to be abused. AdLib 15 minutes ago

Murph, maybe so, but it’s NOT uncontrollable when it’s a matter of overturning their OWN decisions that, at the moment, are good for us. choicelady 15 minutes ago

Ad – they can’t be time limited a la “Green Eggs and Ham” Cruz. They have to be talk til you drop, no bathroom or food breaks. You want it? DO it. choicelady 14 minutes ago

SCOTUS has veered from one side of the road to the other on many issues……I just think it is a bad model. MurphTheSurf3 14 minutes ago

Murph – what are you thinking of re: veering? choicelady 14 minutes ago

glenn – I think the Lincoln Project folk and other reasonable Repubs will remain a minority in their party and while I think they will try to take the party back, which I would support, I think they’ll find themselves on their own island. There may need to be a new party for decent Repubs that sometimes sides with Dems when up against extremist Trumper Repubs in GEs. AdLib 13 minutes ago

A word about COVID……her in MO. one county after another has decided on a radical path: required masks, avoid crowds, keep your distance, and limited publicly approved group settings…..WoW….so novel, so inventive. MurphTheSurf3 13 minutes ago

Murph! MO did THAT? Well, good on them. choicelady 12 minutes ago

CL….oh…slavery is one, the rights of women to vote, protection of those who are gay, segregation of the military and more. MurphTheSurf3 12 minutes ago

OK and WY (I think) are entirely out of ICU beds. MO could see it coming. choicelady 12 minutes ago

CL – I don’t know, the Repubs always seem to weasel a way to pervert or ignore Senate rules anyway. AdLib 12 minutes ago

CL–I’m with your mother. I retired from teaching 10 years ago and really dI on’t regret it for a moment. Did volunteer work as a mentor and I actually teaching again. Hopefully, with Dr. Jill as FLOTUS, we will see some meaningful educational reform. glenn 11 minutes ago

Murph – I don’t see a lot of recent lurching on recent decisions. I do see evolution. choicelady 11 minutes ago

Ad…and as I have pointed out our system locks in two parties….a reform movement leading to a new vibrant party is doomed from the getgo. MurphTheSurf3 11 minutes ago

glenn – I am hopeful Dr. Biden will make a difference! choicelady 11 minutes ago

CL….well we may now have a court that will Do the Lurch again and again. MurphTheSurf3 10 minutes ago

Murph – we must rid OURSELVES of our own Big Mouths who are wickedly uniformed and have a scary agenda. choicelady 10 minutes ago

Ad–Agreed. I think the Lincoln Project folk and others like the GA SOS will remain a minority. glenn 10 minutes ago

Have you seen the female Trump Gov, Kristi Noem in SD bragging that unemployment is down as they are the 2nd worst state in COVID infections? Yeah, unemployment is down because so many people are dying off. She seems to be trolling on purpose, to get more noteriety. She is a sick puppy. AdLib 9 minutes ago

Ad – she is really horrid. choicelady 9 minutes ago

CL…Mo. did it because there is no choice and the resistance is huge….most counties have put in fines for those who do not cooperate…..and that has raised the rage level but without teeth the new rules mean nothing. MurphTheSurf3 9 minutes ago

Real Men Do Wear Masks. choicelady 9 minutes ago

What a great discussion tonight, folks, but I find I can’t concentrate any more. Hope you all have a wonderful Thanksgiving, and hopefully will see you the day after. Take care. glenn 8 minutes ago

AD Kristi makes it clear…She is for FREEDOM First, Last, and Always….give me a break….her state leads the country in deaths and if it were a nation would be number five in the world. MurphTheSurf3 8 minutes ago

Sidebar – the night after the rally by the Proud Boys (very few) in Sacramento, they were prowling the streets ARMED. This is entirely illegal. Cops did nothing. choicelady 8 minutes ago

Murph – I think a 3rd party is possible but it would take a long time, remarkable candidates and a lot of money. The Lincoln Project guys could throw in with a lot of other reasonable Repubs to start small, try and be a kingmaker at first then grow over time to be competitive. AdLib 8 minutes ago

Good night Glenn. MurphTheSurf3 7 minutes ago

CL…and you wonder why I worry. MurphTheSurf3 7 minutes ago

Ad – I don’t think their goal should be Third Party. System isn’t working for that, which is fine – parliaments with proportional rep are often disasters in alliances of R, L for voting strength. But I do think the Lincoln Project could eventually take back the GOP as a sane party. choicelady 6 minutes ago

Murph – It seems like a cvicious circle right now, thanks to Trump. He has doomed so many people in red states because protecting one’s neighbors, family and friends from COVID is a partisan issue. I think we’ll see COVID waning in bluer states while continuing to rage in red states. AdLib 6 minutes ago

Ad….the system is set up to partition off third parties…..the pathways to power are built to serve the bifurcated political state. MurphTheSurf3 6 minutes ago

Good night glenn! choicelady 6 minutes ago

Ad – rate of infection in NYC is 3%. In SD it’s 91%. You’re correct. choicelady 5 minutes ago

CL….but Parliamentary system are far better incubator for party reform and even reidentification….leading to new political entities….. MurphTheSurf3 5 minutes ago

Ad….your prediction seems oracle-like to me. MurphTheSurf3 5 minutes ago

Murph – It’s so easy to take Noem down. Isn’t being alive and healthy the absolute freedom? And what about being a good citizen vs. selfish? She is devoid of morality though she tries to claim it. AdLib 5 minutes ago

Murph – I used to think Parliaments were better. I no longer do. They are just as corrupt, and the pacts made w the other side are horrid.’ choicelady 4 minutes ago

Ad…and yet she remains very popular….bizarre. MurphTheSurf3 4 minutes ago

Murph – Thanks pal! Here’s what I think may happen this year. Repubs will refuse to take the vaccine because it is being administered under Biden. Folks in blue states will build immunity while red states have persistent and rampant COVID, spiking here and there. It will be a Tale of Two Parties. AdLib 3 minutes ago

CL…..Parliaments have the same issues but there is a reason why our system has never been adopted by any other nation. The German structure which is a blending of Parliamentary and Branched System works very well….. MurphTheSurf3 3 minutes ago

I did a LTE on “The State of Jefferson” refusing CA directives despite soaring COVID. I noted we ask these regs for the care for them. Their disinterest in care for US means we won’t be patronizing their shops, motels, hunting-fishing areas. BOYCOTTS. choicelady 3 minutes ago

Murph – I know German politics mostly from lefties who don’t like it at all, but then no one likes THEM at all. choicelady 2 minutes ago

Ad….I think that may be so among whites…but I fear that blacks and browns are going to see anything with Trump’s fingerprints as something to be avoided. MurphTheSurf3 2 minutes ago

CL….funny and true……re. Germany. MurphTheSurf3 a minute ago

Murph – It seems that the RW Repubs need to believe in a mythos first and an “us vs. them” above all. Logic, personal safety, caring about others, all takes a backseat to the racial anxiety they feel. AdLib a minute ago

OK gentlemen, my brain has official exploded remembering teaching German gov’t course as a TA. Can’t handle Germany when I can barely handle the USA. Good night to you and a most happy Thanksgiving in small family groups or alone. Stay safe! Put a mask on that turkey – can’t be too safe! See you next week! choicelady a few seconds ago

RWingers are inherently rabid ideologues…. Well…the witching hour has come and gone and I think it is time for me to go to ground MurphTheSurf3 a few seconds ago

Good CL and Ad MurphTheSurf3 a few seconds ago

CL – That’s how it will have to be, avoiding and boycotting states where citizens won’t protect themselves or others. AdLib a few seconds ago

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