Ladies and gentlemen, start your engines! Today there are two races for spectators to watch, a demolition derby run by the GOP in South Carolina and a drag car race between two hot rodding Dems in Nevada.

This can be a pivotal day for many campaigns. On the Republican side, a poor showing by Ben Carson (as expected) and by Jeb Bush could sideline both out of the race. A surprise loss by Trump could hobble him and his hopes for winning. A 3rd place showing by Cruz could be profoundly damaging but a victory could turbo boost his chances. And Rubio “recording” less than a 3rd Place finish would be a bruising defeat but doing better could open the floodgates for the GOP Elite’s donatioons.

On the Dem side, if Bernie wins Nevada after being so far behind for months, and doing so in an ethnically diverse state, the whole narrative about him being too fringe to win the nom would be exploded. Meanwhile, a strong Hillary win could pave a path of victory to South Carolina next week and onto the SEC Southern states primary in March.

So much riding on today’s results and so many twists and turns possible, join our thread throughout the day and night to discuss your predictions and reactions with your fellow Planeteers.

It should be exciting!

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agrippa
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agrippa

I cannot say that I care for any of those people running for President, whether they be GOP or Democratic. We have a two party system, with first past the post.
I have very little respect for any of them; I have little respect for their knowledge, wisdom or integrity. They are the epitome of the least common denominator.
But, we do have to pick one. Drat. I prefer Seinfeld; with him, the fatuity is taken pure without the corruption of cant.

I do wish that we had a multi party system with proportional representation. Such a system would have the possibility of including the actual diversity of opinion in the USA. If that results of that cause “government instability” ( “musical chair cabinets”),so be it. I prefer that to government by gridlock and the resultant political cowardice. And, the animosity would be overt rather than covert.

It seems that this election season will say little about foreign policy; owing to the fact that we have the candidates that we have and the politicians that we have and the media that we have, it would be naive to expect an adult debate about foreign policy from those people.

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Kalima
Admin

Hello, agrippa.

Although I understand the need for multi party choices, it won’t happen any time soon. Look at what happens in places like Europe and the U.K. where other parties either get 1% of the votes, or fascist, racist parties like the French far right National Front and Golden Dawn in Greece, actually win seats in the government. You have enough nutcase voters as it is, and those votes would compromise the chance of someone who actually gives a shit from being elected.

You say that you have “little respect for their knowledge, wisdom or integrity”. That’s easy enough because GOP candidates have none, but what about the two Democrats? Why do you believe that Sanders has no knowledge, wisdom or integrity? Do you know of his history in politics and what he stands for?

Being as we have both Sanders and Clinton supporters here, I’m sure they would like to know your reasons.

As for foreign policy I would be more worried about any of the GOP being elected, because if they get the WH, you can kiss foreign policy goodbye. There will be no diplomacy there, and the threat of bombing Iran, sending thousands of young Americans to fight in Syria and Iraq would certainly become a reality.

There would be millions more poor people as benefits dry up. Health care would be stolen from millions. Women would be treated like cattle taking away their right to choose what to do with their own bodies. Black Americans and their rights would be trashed. So would your SS and Medicare. I could go on but am sure that you know the risks of a Republican WH, after all, George Bush was elected twice and ruined America’s reputation and standing in the world.

I wish I could fly, but I have to take a plane. I wish I could wave a magic wand and heal the wounds of the world, but I can’t and have to rely on the person who I feel will do the least damage and try to make meaningful changes.

You are of course welcome to your opinion, but with so much at stake at home and abroad, I would concentrate on making sure that no republican sits in the Oval Office again for many years to come. Of course with a GOP WH, the rich would thrive and grow like the fungus they are, infecting and taking out all that is good and decent about your country. With many thanks to President Obama for all the changes he was able to make.

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agrippa
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agrippa

I will vote for either Clinton or Sanders. The GOP people are blind kittens. I am not one who thinks that “the two parties are the same”. They are not.
I am most concerned about foreign policy, as we are living in an “interesting time” and the GOP does not have a clue. I think that
Sanders does need to expand on his foreign policy views, as it is the White House that runs USA foreign policy. I have a fair notion of what Hillary Clinton would do. Sanders, not so much.

And, I do not think that we have anything close to a consensus on domestic issues. I really cannot see a basis for thinking otherwise.

On the domestic side, the mischief that GOP Governors and state Legislatures get up to is a real issue. That is mostly missed at the National level.

I think that PBO has done very well; he had little help from the Democratic controlled Congress when he had one, and the GOP in Congress has done its’ very best to oppose him.
Foreign policy has been mostly damage control; trying to keep the lid on and avoiding more war. Cuba and Iran have been two important successes. I am very glad to see that he was able to do both.

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Kalima
Admin

Hello agrippa,

Well I’m relieved that your distaste of the candidates won’t stop you from voting. The President had to grow into foreign policy as well as handling a financial crisis, and I believe he kept a cool head and made the right decisions for America. As long as the GOP don’t take the WH, I think the next Democrat in the Oval Office would be well advised to follow his lead in diplomacy. It works.

As for the many domestic problems caused by GOP governors and crazy legislators, it is up to the American people to vote them out of office.

I’m at the stage now where I just can’t stomach watching any of the repub candidates speak. Reading about them is bad enough. Watching them would be torture. Never have been partial to ignorance, bulging eyes, frothy mouths, lies and total gibberish.

Less than 9 months to go, and I’m feeling sorry for anyone who is not voting for a GOP candidate being accosted by a barrage of nonsense daily from your msm. May the Force be with you!

One more thought. If you are not sure about Sanders, how can you question his knowledge, wisdom and integrity?

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agrippa
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agrippa

The WH, in the USA, does foreign policy. Congress, most of the time, is not involved.

And, so much of foreign policy is for “raisons d’etat”. Thus, it is secret. So, we do not know what is being said or done.
We have to trust the President ( whomever that may be) and the people he appoints. We have a pretty good idea who Hillary Clinton would want to have working for her. Knowing the appointees can tell us a lot about the policy of a President.
That is how it will have to go with Sanders. Who are his advisors on foreign policy? As he does not really have a body of work, assessing those people come first.

On foreign policy, the GOP candidates are blind kittens. Full stop.

I am of the view that we do not have a consensus on what to do about domestic issues; and, Congress does that by passing legislation ( which is very difficult thing for a legislator to do). If Clinton or Sanders is elected, I see another divided government. Members of the HoR have, for the most part, have safe seats; and, do not lose reelection. Resulting in a GOP HoR.

Because we have first past the post, and no proportional representation, voting for a third party is a mere gesture.

The media is the media. When one comes, they all come; when one leaves, they all leave.

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SallyT
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This video will show you how unorganized this caucus was. Unbelievable.

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monicaangela
Member

Thank you Sally…I love the Young Turks, that always get it right. What a mess.

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SallyT
Member

The one to blame for all this is the DNC and lack of preparing and doing it fairly. (I have an opinion on that, too.)

“The Nevada Caucus Was A Nightmare”

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/02/20/3751818/nevada-caucus-chaos/

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Nirek
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I don’t understand how a caucus is democratic. They don’t let all the people who will vote in November in to caucus. People who work in some areas don’t get time off to go but others do.

To me it is about as undemocratic as you can get. It shuld be one person one vote.

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monicaangela
Member

Exactly Nirek, and if you will notice it was held on a Saturday. People of the Jewish faith could not participate because it is their Sabbath. Not that Bernie practices the Jewish faith or anything, but I’m sure that left out a lot of voters who may otherwise have voted.

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SallyT
Member

I agree, Nirek. One person and one vote. These caucus make it very hard on many people that would also like to keep that vote private from their neighbors, co-workers, and bosses. A caucus does not allow that.

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SallyT
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SallyT
Member

“Why Hillary and Bernie both won and lost in Nevada”

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-35624018

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monicaangela
Member

Wow, Cruz and Rubio in a tie for second place in SC.

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monicaangela
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Again AdLib, this has been quite a year for republicans. They appear to be gerrymandering, stealing elections, and winning, however as you say their party appears to be headed for a really low status if they have to take this to a brokered convention.

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kesmarn
Admin

It just occurs to me that we’ve heard Clarence Thomas and Melania Trump speak.

On the same day.

Remember February 20, 2016.

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monicaangela
Member

I’m definitely going to have to mark my calendar Kes….I wonder why Thomas never speaks when he’s at work?

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monicaangela
Member

Voter Fraud?

https://twitter.com/andiwonderthis/status/701156372340027392

It appears some of Clinton’s voters voted without registering.

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pinkpantheroz
Member

I saw on Aussie News that some areas RAN OUT of English Registration forms and many people had to fill out reg. using the Spanish language form! No conspiracy here, I feel.

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SallyT
Member

I heard the nurses are really calling foul.
“Representatives for the National Nurses union which has thrown its support behind Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders are accusing the Clinton campaign of trying to hoodwink Nevada caucus-goers by wearing the red t-shirts normally associated with the union.”
“Union members are easily identified at Sanders rallies sporting bright red t-shirts, with some members wearing special ones with “BeRNie” screened over a heart.”
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/02/national-nurses-accuses-clinton-campaign-of-trying-to-trick-bernie-sanders-voters-at-nevada-caucuses/

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monicaangela
Member

BTW: I was correct about the voter turnout Sally, reading an article just now I read the numbers again. 80,000 in this caucus election vs. 120,000 in 2008.

Also read this in the article: Sanders’s now-proven ability to court Latinos should help his prospects going forward in states including Texas, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico and California. He also said that the loss in Nevada will not affect Sanders’s plans to remain in the race through the Democratic National Convention.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/clinton-defeats-sanders-in-nevada-black-voter-support-appears-decisive/ar-BBpJDQz

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SallyT
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Bernie is ahead in the polls in Colo right now. 49 to 43.

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monicaangela
Member

Wow, this smacks of dirty politics, it appears the Clinton campaign has pulled out all the stops to try to win this election. With all of her experience and the other stuff they continue to try to sell you would think this would be a cake walk for her without having to stoop to any dirty tricks.

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kesmarn
Admin

I’ve heard this too, monica. It needs to be looked into.

There were some questionable activities in Iowa too.

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monicaangela
Member

I remember hearing a couple of things like that after the Iowa race, and suddenly it went away. The video I posted above doesn’t lie. When are these people going to learn we are in the tech age now and everything can be captured as it is happening?

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Beatlex
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Beatlex

There is something very spooky about Marco Rubio.The money men on the R side love him.That should scare us all,it is like GWB all over again

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pinkpantheroz
Member

I just noticed that Hillary’s ‘victory’ is less than YUUGE. there were only 11,000 votes cast in Nevada. Not a big turnout, really.

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pinkpantheroz
Member

That’s according to HP, anyway.

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pinkpantheroz
Member

Isn’t it a total kick in the head that there are three liars contesting the GOP nom. Will we be able to see anything on screen with all the mud slinging? Will anyone be recognizable after the mud wrestling? Hillary and Bernie, settle down now and get going. Dems, GOTFV!

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monicaangela
Member

It appears voter turnout among democrats was lower this year than in 2008 according to CNN:

Nevada Democratic Party spokesman Stewart Boss estimated turnout at 80,000, falling short of the nearly 120,000 voters who turned out in 2008.

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SallyT
Member

Monica, did they say anything about the Independent vote? Most of these younger voters are not party affiliated and NV is an open primary.

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monicaangela
Member

I haven’t heard them say anything about a breakdown of republican, or independent turnout and it appears the turnout I heard them repeat was from the 2012 race. Sorry about that.

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SallyT
Member

Monica, I heard Rachel Maddow comment that the turnout in NH for Democrats was down, too. But, she never said anything about the Independent count. That I found elsewhere and it was up. Bernie got over 70% of that vote! MSM and the DNC are no help to BERNIE!

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monicaangela
Member

I’m not sure about caucuses, but I believe you have to register as a democrat or a republican to vote in a primary. Maybe that is why they don’t consider the Independents during primary voting.

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SallyT
Member

Independents can vote in primaries if it is an open primary. They can’t in a closed primary. In NH it is not a closed primary but if you are registered as a Republican or a Democrat, you have to vote your party. Independents can vote either. NV is an open caucus so they can vote.

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monicaangela
Member

Yep, Bernie is running against the tide alright. Did you see the tweet I posted above. It appears some are saying some Hillary supporters voted without registering. They were captured on video entering without registering.

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SallyT
Member

Saw and posted the one on the nurses calling foul.

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kesmarn
Admin

Rubio-Roboto delivering yet another of his canned, memorized speeches. No need for the networks to replay it at 11 p.m.
He can deliver it word-for-word all over again then.
And at 2 a.m.
And on Meet the Press at 9 a.m….

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monicaangela
Member

LOL!!! How long does he intend to keep this up?

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kesmarn
Admin

You’d almost think he’d won, wouldn’t you Monica?

😀

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monicaangela
Member

Yes Kes, I believe he does this every time he loses. I hate to think how long the speech will be if he actually wins one. 🙂

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kesmarn
Admin

He could give Fidel Castro a run for the money…!

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