Vox Populi – 6-15-2012

AdLib : Thanks CL! Hope I win a chocolate gold medal tomorrow for the water balloon toss!

AdLib : Thanks so much CL! BTW, thanks for the background on Simone. It does sound like she is best where she is right now and you are best where you are, far away from her.

SueInCa : Oh holy shit CL that kind of thing just rubs me the wrong way. The pope is in bed with the RR you know.

choicelady : Have a great evening, Sue. Enjoy the shows and Anthony! AdLib – I think I will pack it in, too. I see funk is offline, so we should spring you to prepare for the BD party AND Father’s Day. Have a great weekend!

SueInCa : AL I will. Night CL reading your comment then I am out like a lightbulb

AdLib : Hey Sue, that sounds like fun! Have a great evening and say hi to that clever son of yours for me!

choicelady : Sue – no she has NOTHING to do with the molestations. The entire body of nuns in America are under Vatican investigation for focusing on the poor and sick and NOT using all their time prattling on about abortion and the evils of homosexuality. Simone is right to point out that the nuns on the streets ARE carrying out the church’s teachings. After all, is the Church asking the abortion clinic protesters if they are feeding the poor children who are here? No. Do they challenge their rich donors who are pro-capital punishment? No. The VAtican is on their case because NETWORK as an organization and the body of nuns that follow NETWORK supported the Obama health reform. THAT was the unforgiveable sin – dissenting from the Bishops’ position because the nuns said abortions could not and would not be covered by federal health reform when the Bishops were all atwitter that it would. NETWORK was right – but they were not sufficiently deferential to The Boys.

SueInCa : Ok I think I am about burnt for the day. time to put on Fresh Prince and watch some boob tube with Anthony. He is discovering all the old shows my kids watched.

SueInCa : …I really really have not been watching the talk shows

SueInCa : In Catechism if you did not listen you got a rap with a ruler. What investigation? The molestations? Do you trust she will do the right thing?

choicelady : AdLib – she IS doing a good job. I just have lots of scars from her acid tongue lashings. She always stole the limelight and kicked out any other opinions and ideas that weren’t hers. So she’s the perfect person for this role – but i NEVER want to be within 40 yards of her ever again.

choicelady : Sue – she’s not pushy that way. She’s rapaciously power hungry. She trashed ALL of us who worked in the same arenas, and no one was sorry to see her go. I do admire her work now in relation to this stupid investigation, but I KNOW her soft-spoken stance is a game. She’s eating this up. And any other nun who might have a different view – crushed under Sr. Simone’s feet. She tore strips off all of us. And we’re used to her predecessor who took NO hostages in the legislature – but she never was mean and never took anything away from the rest of us. Simone is a scary control freak.

SueInCa : AL it is pointless. I know a few really mellow republicans and we have some lively conversations. My aunt is a Tricky dick republican and even she has mellowed moving back to CA

AdLib : CL – I really like that nun! She is brilliant and charming and so damn right. She’s doing great and I like that she’s being backed up by so many others. The whole idea that championing the central work and message of Jesus is an attack on the Catholic Church says volumes about the church and the Pope.

SueInCa : CL we were Catholic until I turned 8 then my mom changed religions. Uh oh didn’t Palin do the same? OMG I am her twin sister. Not likely

SueInCa : A pushy nun? Who would have thought? Ever been dinged in the head by one? I have

AdLib : Sue – I like that and am with you on that. I no longer have conversations with people who are Republicans once they start playing the Fox tape recorder in their head. What’s the point? As I often say, you can’t use reason to change the opinion of someone who didn’t use reason to obtain it.

choicelady : AdLib – Hooo – that is GREAT! That’s about the level the Pope would aspire to! George Bush indeed!

choicelady : AdLib – you know the nun who is the spokesperson for those being investigated? She’s made the talk show rounds. Her name is Simone Campbell. She was here, and at one time we were friends. She is coming off VERY well, very respectful and measured but sure and steadfast in her devotion to core values of healing the sick, tending the poor. Well – I no longer am friends with her. She is a bitch and several of us who worked with her were REALLY glad she left Sacto for DC. She is very power hungry. I do think she’s doing amazingly well at standing up to “The Boys” as she calls the bishops. But I know this was the moment she’s been waiting for – being in the public eye, being THE figurehead. And I’m very supportive. But I never want to see her again. EVER.

AdLib : CL – I agree that technology has accelerated the movement to intransigence and self-righteousne ss. Isn’t that at the heart of what’s wrong with our political and social worlds today? People can’t work together because they and their party need to be infallible. Compromise would be an admission of imperfection.

SueInCa : i turn people off if they cannot carry on a decent conversation. It is useless to try to talk to them when they only want to discuss their side of things. I have been known to also walk away.

AdLib : CL – I was going to add on one more sentence to that, “And who does the Pope think he is, George Bush?”

AdLib : CL – Now that would make for a wonderful article here! Exploring the psychological need to be right and how that has disintegrated being able to have conversations and compromises.

choicelady : AdLib – asking if W is the Pope might not be a good example. The Pope ain’t too hot these days!

choicelady : AdLib – I think that pursuit of being right is actually quite pathological in our society. The NY Times had a feature a few weeks ago about the ‘death of conversation’. The author attributed it to electronics, but I think the electronics are the escape valve from the pre-existing condition of nasty one-upmanship. Why have conversations when the point is to triumph and never learn? Kids are afraid of that – and I can see why? How can you discuss anything when you’re always being pounced upon? Tweets are perfect – short and sweet, and you can block your critics. Even email is too intimate sometimes. If we’d give up being mean, it might open a world to all of us! That’s why the progressive blogs like this that insist on civility are so important. Conversation!

AdLib : Sue – Well, generally we’re out around 10 but as long as a conversation is going, the VP bar stays open.

AdLib : Sue – Right. I mean, remember Bush was asked once what mistakes he wished he could do differently and claimed that he couldn’t think of any mistakes he made. Really? You’re the pope?

SueInCa : BRB when is last call AL?

SueInCa : CL if you can sew a blouse you are pretty good

SueInCa : David Barton comes to mind AL

AdLib : CL – Man, you hit a sore spot for me. The need to be right by people, especially in families but of course, also in politics. People can do and say some pretty regrettable things solely in the pursuit of “being right”. Some will lie, rewrite history or deny something that you personally witnessed, a silly thing to try and be dishonest about, yet being right is sometimes all that matters.

choicelady : Sue – oh, yeah. Seam ripping sucks! I used to sew and have a machine, but I don’t do much anymore. I should – I can’t find any of the blouses I like anymore. I could make them.

SueInCa : Dang CL you know what work it is to rip a seam out> I threw one garment away and my mom dragged it out of the garbage but she let it go because it was HER sister

SueInCa : AL that was funny.

choicelady : Sue – yeah, the need to correct instead of help is not a good, warm and fuzzy impulse.

AdLib : Sue – Yep, the LA Kings.

SueInCa : CL my aunt was like that she was a teacher too. She got married finally and actually chilled out but I tell you I would barely speak to her. She would watch me sew a seam all wrong then tell me when I was done. How bitchy is that?

choicelady : Sue – I love hockey. Not the fights, but the game itself is amazingly interesting.

AdLib : Sue – I heard a humorous political talk show on an NPR station today (KPPC) and one guy was going off on why MSNBC has SE Cupp on because she’s such an ignorant hack. He said he emailed Alex Wagner and said, “I’m dumber than SE Cupp, can I be on your show?”

SueInCa : Are the Kings in LA?

choicelady : AdLib – my mother taught 5th grade. She was a grammatical imperialist. And since, to the core she was a bitch, I got a great deal of satisfaction out of noting that she carried for life a regionalism – she called the absence of rain a “drouth.” It’s Drought. She thought anyone who spoke regionalisms was so beneath her contempt, but she perpetrated that one her whole life. So finally I gave as good as she dished out! Now what kind of relationship rests on THAT idiotic one-upmanship? She HAD to be right, and I was sick of being eternally WRONG. Stupid, both of us.

AdLib : I’ve been to one hockey game in my life many years ago, expected to be bored but enjoyed it at the time. It’s not a sport I would typically enjoy watching on tv but I would’ve liked to see the Kings win.

SueInCa : That is one way to think of her. Who the hell is her compatriot> she has no business on these shows she adds nothing and takes up space

SueInCa : CL never fear I would never go to a hockey game. I don’t like violence

AdLib : Sue – You mean S E Cupp, as in So Empty Cupp.

AdLib : CL – Indeed, I never like to make anyone, child or adult, feel foolish for saying something the wrong way, especially when they’re so earnest. It can discourage kids and adults from trying to express themselves with new words or ideas out of fear of humiliation. There’s always a subtle way to correct mistakes that’s constructive, I prefer that approach.

choicelady : Sue dear. Don’t EVER travel to a hocky town. You will be besieged by the fans. Hockey lovers do NOT understand hockey ignoramuses.

SueInCa : Is stnley cup related to ce cupp?

choicelady : AdLib – I was in Vancouver last year for the first Stanley Cup game. Was damned glad I was not there for the last one though! It was a lot of fun – they won, and everyone was in such great spirits!

SueInCa : Who are the kings? and who is stanley cup? LOL LOL

AdLib : Nope, haven’t had much time for watching much more than politics in the afternoon. I didn’t even see a single Kings Stanley Cup game!

SueInCa : AL he was very smart but had a hard time translating into a school situation

choicelady : AdLib – and you’re good hearted about it I’m sure! I never saw the point of humiliating kids for mistakes. I loved the old Kodak commercial with James Garner and the little boy when he asks the boy what colors are in the picture. “Red, Yellow, Blue, Prayple.” Garner asks. “Prayple?” and the kid asks anxiously, “Isn’t that Prayple?” And Garner smiles and says, “Yes. That’s Prayple.” I thought it was kind-hearted and loving. The kid’ll get it right soon enough.

AdLib : Sue – Your son sounds very clever and talented! Well done!

SueInCa : uh oh 4 to 2 for Giants. did anyone watch Cain’s perfect game? My friend was there

AdLib : Sue – That’s very cool about your son looking up words! I like that a lot.

SueInCa : My son also played the sax, the guitar and the piano by the time he was twelve. He did not learn to read music until he was 19 in college. He just taught himself.

AdLib : CL – Love “took the wind out of his balloon”! Made me smile! They do usually grow out of their invented words and phrases and with me as her Dad, she has a built in spellchecker at all times.

choicelady : Sue – that may be it, but the one series I read I think had a different name. Probably the same principle though?

SueInCa : are you talking about mad gab CL?

choicelady : There is a whole game of made up words that aren’t but should be. I’m not good at that, but my ex was. It’s fun. Can’t think of any right now, but when you read them, they hit just the right notes!

SueInCa : Our son used to look up a new word everyday. I swear he was a nerdbut he was no doubt the funniest of the two our daughter was always more serious.

AdLib : Sue – Heh! Love the suddenly unexpected word just leaping out!

SueInCa : It should be washmouth

choicelady : ADLib – I think she’s on to something with that. I hope she outgrows it. I know someone who still mangles things – “Well, that took the wind out of his balloon.” “It spread like wildflowers.” Innovative but…

SueInCa : AL I know I know. My son was riding to school with me and the mountainin our area had snow at the top. He was maybe six and he said Mom that mountain looks stupendous don’t you think? i barely held it back

AdLib : For a long time, mouthwash was “washmouth”.

AdLib : Thanks Sue and CL!

AdLib : Sue – I love all the mispronounced and misunderstood words and combos they come up with, some just make you strain not to burst out laughing because you don’t want to make them feel bad.

SueInCa : yeah 7th grade this year he thinks he is da thing Is funk still here? Happy Fathers day Funk

choicelady : AdLib and funk – yes, happy Father’s Day!

SueInCa : Hey Happy Fathers day

choicelady : Sue – wow he is growing so fast!

SueInCa : Kids are so much fun after the baby stage. I loved how original and forthright my kids were

AdLib : Sorry for all the Dad talk! Her birthday and Father’s Day are just days apart so it’s on my mind of course.

choicelady : funk – are you there?

choicelady : AdLib – that sounds like a BLAST! Have fun!

SueInCa : AL that is neat. Heck my grandson is older than your daughter he is 12

choicelady : I have a 5-year-old granddaughter by proxy (my husband’s younger daughter’s girl) who is already doing FOOTBALL (touch) as well as dance, etc. She was a hotshot at jungle gym at age 2 and was the Queen of the Slide about the same age. She is very self confident without being a brat, and it’s great to see.

AdLib : CL – Her 9th birthday party is tomorrow, we’re doing an Olympic themed party with competitions and chocolate gold medals for the kids.

SueInCa : AL my husband and I were always fair with the kids. Matt used to play with dolls too. Mostly he pulled the legs off lol

SueInCa : CL LOL she was just recently asked to play volleyball too. Oh wow she started younger than my daughter I think she was 10

choicelady : ADLib – wow – I remember when you had her 8th birthday party! How time flies! She sure is growing up!

AdLib : She’s been playing first base mostly, she’s taller than all of the boys and good at catching…she’ s also played catcher and got a couple outs at home. And she’s 8…9 next week.

SueInCa : Good for her we always encouraged my daughter I will tell you a funny story sometime.

choicelady : Sue – It’s OK – you can brag, too. AdLib – yes, my mother was very weird.

AdLib : Sue – Tell your daughter she has another fan! Good for her! My daughter didn’t want to pitch at the beginning of the season, too worried she couldn’t throw strikes. Then after practicing, she couldn’t wait to get a turn. Her first time she pitched to three batters, only threw two balls and had one strike out.

SueInCa : AL she will enjoy it in high school too. Not sure if she has picked a postion but my daughter started out as a pitcher and then she hated it because they always called on her and one other girl in HS. By then she wanted to play shortstop and did but she had to take her pitching rotation as well.

SueInCa : Ok those caps were a bit much. Did not realize they were on.

SueInCa : A; MY DAUGHTER WAS BB TOO SHE MADE ALL STARS AND HAD A ROUGH TIME. tHE PARENTS WERE WORSE THAN THE BOYS ESPECIALLY WHEN SHE PITCHED A NO HITTER AGAINST THE BEST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE.

AdLib : CL – Wow, what an odd divergence. So your standing out among the boys as being talented she saw as a negative? Why was that a bad thing? I get a kick out of watching her outperform the boys who were so quick to discount her at first.

AdLib : CL – In fact, one reason I still haven’t ended up putting her in soccer is that for kids, it is the one game where all the kids can feel like they’re all doing good just because they run around. Not to mention some of the rabid parents! I also think that individual sports like tennis are good too, no way to avoid that you’re doing well or not when you can’t blend into a mass of kids.

choicelady : Night, Murph!

MurphTheSurf3 : Night all.

choicelady : AdLib – how times have changed. I was GREAT as a soccer goalie, and I was (along with many other things) removed from that because my mother thought when I was good I was “drawing attention to yourself” which was BAD. Interestingly, my mother was still something of a feminist – just not about ME. I’m probably the annoying person I am in compensation for that!

AdLib : Murph, you’re immensely appreciated as well, great to see you here tonight! Have a wonderful weekend!

choicelady : AdLib – cool Dad!

choicelady : Murph – you’re several hours ahead of us, so being thunked out is perfectly sensible. Get rest. Can’t say things will be better tomorrow, but you’ll be up for them better prepared. Thanks for all you contribute! We care very much about what concerns you – let us know if we can help? Sweet dreams!

SueInCa : night murph sleep tight and yes cl the door is ALWAYS OPEN

AdLib : CL – Actually, my daughter plays on a girls BB team but on a co-ed baseball team and because of her performance, the boys that initially ignored her came to cheer for her. One parent who has twin little girls said they decided they wanted to play baseball instead of soccer because they wanted to be like her. I made sure she knew about that and understood how you can set an example by how you perform which of course is a wonderful thing. Dad Brag/off.

choicelady : Sue – can I come over? Mine wasn’t nearly that yummy!

MurphTheSurf3 : Well….we few…we happy few…we band of progressives…. we weighed in on a lot of heavy stuff tonight. I intend to go back and do some re-reading. Appreciate you all…AdLib, ChoiceLady, SueinCA and funksands- all the folks still listed as on….for tonight, I think I am thunked out.

SueInCa : choc on choc

choicelady : Sue – wow. I had ice cream but an off brand. Good though. What flavor?

choicelady : AdLib – yes, I see that NOW. But four minutes without anyone is a long time. And on my computer it CAN mean it’s frozen. Wouldn’t be the first time.

SueInCa : iam2 eatin hagen das e

choicelady : AdLib – if the trophy is for participating, that’s fine. By your wise leadership, you are letting them know that just showing up and hanging out is not enough. It’s not the trophy per se, it’s the sense that no effort EVER has to be made to excel. You are NOT playing into that sense of entitlement. Bravo – raising solid, healthy young women!

AdLib : Yo! I’m here! Was writing a longer comment!

choicelady : Where’d everyone go?

AdLib : Sue – I’ve coached my daughter’s baseball and basketball teams and while they all do get trophies, I always made clear to them when they’re achieving and when they need to work harder. The truth is, kids don’t look at trophies as defining their performance, they know who is good and who isn’t on their team and whether they are or aren’t. As the speech Murph shared explains, trophies become meaningless to them because they all get them. But when they play, if they’re given a sense of what’s achieving and what isn’t, they understand the difference. Still, I do agree that there is way too much pampering and head patting over just existing. Kids, like adults, should be recognized for their choices or take the heat for them.

choicelady : AdLib – triangles make for SUCH a bumpy ride!

AdLib : Sue – I think the anarchists would have happened anyway, mostly because they were infiltrators of the RW. Indeed, the anti-leadership delusion they were under was simply naive and clueless. Amazing that these were mainly college students, they didn’t seem to know any history about how movements changed society. Never has it happened without leaders and strategies. So they wanted to re-invent the wheel and make it a triangle?

choicelady : ADLib – you don’t have to apologize for slamming my friend. After 37 years, I am not sure I can continue to BE her friend. She is a hypocrite, and it just sticks in my craw.

choicelady : Murph – wow. Amazing! Thank you! My friend’s kids are in the death spiral. One is a “guest of the state” and the other sells drugs. My friend has a BA, her parents had MAs and were comfortably middle class. Everyone in this period is either on social supports or living in the underground economy. No one pays taxes. And they ALL bitch about “people on welfare”!!! Which they ARE. I have deep sympathy for those whom this society has thrown away. I have NO sympathy for those who have thrown away society.

SueInCa : Murph I always hated that about little league. All the kids got a trophy win or lose? That is just wrong but my husband was on St Louis farm team and he knows how hard the world can treat you

AdLib : Cl – Yes,that is disappointing, having a friend pride themselves on ignorance with the justification, “I don’t know who to trust…so I choose being clueless and uninformed.” Ouch. Hope you excuse me, not trying to slam your friend but it is a kind of laziness people should be ashamed of. How about, “Then think for yourself and research on the web what’s true and what isn’t. Find sites that you can trust for the truth (insert plug here) and be a responsible member of your society. Jeez…

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…here it is…. a powerful, if hard graduation speech from a teacher on the current generation. «link» Key quote: McCulloch told the graduates that they had all been “pampered, cosseted, doted upon, helmeted, bubble wrapped – nudged, cajoled, wheedled … feted, fawned upon and called ‘sweetie pie’….He attacked what he characterized as “an epidemic in America of loving awards more than achievement.” “If everyone gets a trophy,” he observed “trophies are meaningless.” He got a standing ovation.

SueInCa : AL I have been thinking about it and while a team is a good thing you do have to have a leader to keep some balance. Perhaps a council I don;t know but they might have controlled the anarchist better had they done so.

AdLib : Sue – Very interesting appraisal of OWS, there was indeed a degree of group think in an ironic way, we should all think that nobody should lead us. Wow…

choicelady : Bourne and Murph – I will go back and find the grad speech. Thanks!

SueInCa : Bourne I know someone who knows someone but you are too close now wouldn’t work LOL

choicelady : Bourne – have a great weekend, and please – do NOT assassinate your neighbor. No matter what. They don’t let you do Vox in prison.

BourneID : Again, good night all, have a great weekend.

BourneID : CL, one more thing re the young talking in 140 characters. Read Murph’s comments on the graduation speech. Says it all.

choicelady : Bourne – you need bail money, honey?

AdLib : Bourne, very glad you jumped in! Have a wonderful weekend!

SueInCa : Bourne let me know if you need some beating up help LOL I will get someone for you. Notice I did not say me?

choicelady : AdLib – I KNOW you’re right about that. But I want a strong society regardless of who wins, and it’s mealy and soft bellied. I just had a set to with my oldest friend – she has revealed some amazingly warped views of everything, and she prides herself on never reading the paper because “I never know whom to believe.” Well – try reading WIDELY and then talking a LOT, and seeing what really is happening. Too few people bother.

MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne….you are getting very, very good at this…very, very good…thanks for your many contributions tonight.

AdLib : CL – You nailed it. Obama is most likely to win by all accounts and if he does, he could become quite determined in working around Congress to get things happening that need to happen. No re-election to worry about and as you say, he knows what bi-partisanship is worth when dealing with Repubs. Obama will be stronger in his second term and 8 years of Repubs blocking progress will take a toll on people’s support of them.

BourneID : AdLib, do you remember when I signed in I said I was only here as a guest tonight – no talking? Well I’m comletely out of words, out of ideas, out of breath. So you all, an enjoyable conversation tonight. I’m getting the hang of this. CL and Sue, we are to meet in a couple of months, after I have my neighbor assassinated = we’re in a legal battle now unless you want to come to cuort and watch. Court date is in October.

SueInCa : CL I think OWS is reflective of what they know and that is groupthink

choicelady : Bourne – I really worry the young CANNOT talk to one another or to us. It concerns me that they think in 140 characters. I think that’s fun. They think that’s ALL. I hope they can be as activist and strong as their peers in the sit-ins, anti-war actions, etc. I am just not sure they have any focus or knowledge.

AdLib : CL – Just to be clear, I don’t think Romney will win so none of this is something I think we’d have to deal with. I’m just projecting out what would happen if Romney won. He won’t win though, he is a fragile and weak candidate and just the right hammering will shatter him.

SueInCa : LOL CL you never ever could be

choicelady : Sue – oh, baby, I’d not want to be the object of your wrath, girlfriend!

AdLib : Murph – I think she’s reading a bit into things but I appreciate her positive sensibility. Obama would beat Romney if the election was today and the economy is doing worse now than it will probably be doing in Nov. there is an economic cycle of growth in the winter, lagging in the summer, growth again in the Fall. If this pattern continues, Obama will be even stronger in Nov than he is now on the economy and Mitt will only be able to whine, “So what? It should be better!”

choicelady : Mruph – and if he WINS, he’s getting even MORE backbone than he had (which was huge). He’s given bipartisanship a good shot, and now he’s doing what he must, however he must, and I LOVE it. I like his statesmanlike way. But I also love the fire in the belly I am seeing recently!

BourneID : CL, there’s something i really have a probem with and that’s the our disillusionment with OWS. We are not talking to the young people. You know, life is moving like the speed of light. The difference between the young in 2008 and this year is like 2 decades. These kids have experience and seen the same crap that that we all see today. No matter what Bush did, we didn’t know he was doing it until he left office. The economic collapse was the best secret in the century. McCain suspended his campaign to rush back to DC to fix it remember? A lie of curse, he was trapped with Sarah, but the point is these kids have no dirction. Technology and their use of is exponential. We just get impatient, but we dont’t invite them into the conversaion.

SueInCa : oh sweetie they are effers but there is a comment section on the mls I get I will be commenting LOL

choicelady : Sue – well, that sucks.

choicelady : AdLib – you MAY be right about this. A Depression might change everything, but I do NOT relish losing everything I have for security and then have to fight to get it back before I die with violence possibly everywhere.

SueInCa : Murph I think he will be an insurgent even if he wins. What has he got to lose and to set it up for 16?

MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…and that sentiment about desperation and action is what my friend was referring to in looking to a post Obama loss….she says his rhetoric is hardening to match his positions. She thinks he is positioning himself to be the determined leader of an insurgent opposition….IF he loses…

choicelady : Murph – I totally agree. I just don’t want to have to take up arms. BTW – I was trained by the FBI. I’m a crack shot with an MP5 and a 9mm. But I DO NOT WANT TO.

SueInCa : No my loan officer is a doll the banks with all the properties are the effers

choicelady : Sue – get ye to Golden!. We have our mortgage there, not a problem to be had. Set up an account, get a loan. Easy peezy.

AdLib : CL – I think the dynamics change when you lose your security. If Romney won, and he won’t, his economic plans would send the nation into a Depression and all those people on their comfy sofas will become desperate. No unemployment extensions, slashed money for the poor, on and on. When there is no other way, you get angry and act.

MurphTheSurf3 : CL- Clearly defined goals, hard work, lots of time, patience, a devotion to the cause, a recognition that compromise is often the price of victory, accepting that leadership and leaders are necessary if you are going to win…etc. All very unOWS and very much you, me, Ad Lib, Bourne, Sue, Funk, Sabreen.

SueInCa : CL you don’t want to know. I am going to write it up sooner or later but banks are at their old tricks. I have a great loan officer for the small loan we are getting(50k) the rest is cash and banks are effin playin games all over again

BourneID : c: TJERE

choicelady : A friend made up a sticker I’ve not got the nerve to put on my car: SAVE AMERICA! ICE THE TEA PARTY!

BourneID : CL tJERE

choicelady : Bourne – Jimmy Carter is vastly more important and a better leader now than he EVER was as president. That is true!

choicelady : Hey Sue! How’s the househunt going?

choicelady : Night Sabreen! Sweet dreams!

choicelady : AdLib – I have faith in unions, in working people old and young, yes. But OWS did not do much, and it’s pretty much dead. It’s endurance that lacks here. We did clinic work for TWELVE YEARS. My friends on picket lines for EAstern Airline for THREE YEARS. Day in, day out. Who is up to that now? It’s the Bubbas who want to be Rambo who scare the crap out of me.

SueInCa : Al I hope so I cannot imagine what I would do if Romney won. I know I would write up a bumper sticker asking if America has a fuckin brain for sure

MurphTheSurf3 : Night Sabreen thanks for your contribution tonight. Helpful

BourneID : Murph, I think the lady who told you about the President’s next step should he lose has done us a great service. He will, if he loses, become as influential and powerful as Bill Clinton is now. I was not a Clinton supporter (I was very republican at the time) but I do admire what he is doing internationally. Presidents are most effective when they are no longer sitting in the Oval office.

AdLib : Night Sabreen! Hang in there, by the time we’re watching Obama’s speech at the Convention, we’ll be smiling, fired up and ready to go!

AdLib : Sue – Don’t allow that to take any hope away, it is idle chatter. This election will be a fight, both Obama and Romney have to wonder what they would do if they lost but that’s natural, not a reflection of what outcome they expect.

SueInCa : Night Sabreen

Sabreen60 : Well folks I’m starting to see double – time to say good night. Hope to see you on the Twitter, back here or some other sane blog.

SueInCa : mini discussing I mean

SueInCa : AL I agree with you we were minin discussing that this afternoon Murph and I

SueInCa : Murph that is interesting that it is even being discussed. Does not give me much hope

BourneID : Murph, that is a GREAT graduation speech; I hope the parents listened carefully and took notes. Wow, thanks for that.

AdLib : CL – The scenario you paint is possible. But so is a movement like OWS but broader based that brings out Liberals, old and young, to take on the challenge of their lifetime. When people are oppressed enough, they do get up and out of their recliners. When they don’t have jobs because of a plutocratic government, not enough police or firemen or teachers for their children to get by…they will get upset.

SueInCa : AL ok I get it now. I would have welcomed a revolt of another kind

MurphTheSurf3 : Sue….she is someone who really knows the campaign inside out. I think she is saying that Obama would become a crusader for reform and a constant thorn in the side of the GOP majority.

AdLib : Hey Sue! The entire 2008 election was a revolt against Bush. A black man named Barack Hussein Obama was elected President…that was no doubt revolting to the RW!

SueInCa : Murph what does this mean? She told me that she thought that Obama was preparing to fight an insurgency from the left if he loses…

BourneID : CL, I’ve seen this in them for years They live the fine life in Palm Springs; very taken in by affluence and the right parties, etc. One of them said a couple of years ago when I said Imight drive down for a visit, :Well that would be great! I’ll be in residence on the 10th..” I said, “in residence? Will your flag be on the roof so I’ll know?”

MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne- a powerful, if hard graduation speech from a teacher on the current generation. «link» Key quote: McCulloch told the graduates that they had all been “pampered, cosseted, doted upon, helmeted, bubble wrapped – nudged, cajoled, wheedled … feted, fawned upon and called ‘sweetie pie’….He attacked what he characterized as “an epidemic in America of loving awards more than achievement.” “If everyone gets a trophy,” he observed “trophies are meaningless.” He got a standing ovation.

choicelady : AdLib – I am NOT being snide here. What scares the bejeezus out of me is that if it all falls apart under Romney, and it would, I do NOT see the progressives getting out of their comfy chairs and doing one damned thing about it. Now bito can tell you – he and I have a history on the streets, picket lines, defense of clinics, etc. We CAN be there. I know almost NO one else who has that background. I am thinking of all the whiners who bitch, piss, and moan – and would BP&M but do nothing. So that leaves the guys with the guns, hunting experience, and cammo to take the ground. And that scares the crap out of me.

AdLib : CL – And Linda McMahon lost with all her millions of outspending. And there were other millionaires with money advantages that lost in 2010…and again, that was the anti-Dem 2010! Money can be and has been beat and we’ll just have to do it again.

SueInCa : AL I don’t remember a revolt against Bush hell the man never came out of the WH once the shit hit the fan

BourneID : Mueph, I am now officially depressed. I had no knowledge of this. You know, though Kennedy seems to be the key to the ACA and the other bill (?), Sacramento media, both tV and print, have nothing to say about the man. Agree or disagree with him, he is a major figure in DC and it’s sort of like everything else we do here – no big deal. I called Channel 3 our NBC affiliate if anyone had considered doing a piece on him since he’s looked at so much now that these decisions are being made, and the answer from the newsroom editor – “that’s not a bad idea.” I’m sure he then went to lunch. Wow. CL do you find the same in Sac.

AdLib : CL – Your caution on revolutions is very wise. Look at Egypt, despite winning their freedom, it’s now being taken away again by tyrants. I don’t think Romney will win but I am proposing something that I would predict would happen if Romney won, whether it was political or otherwise, there would be such suffering wrought by him and the Baggers, there would be a revolt at least as strong as the one against Bush in 2008.

choicelady : AdLib – RIGHT – forgot Fiorina and Whitman. Meg Baby spent more than any other candidate EVER, and she lost big time. Take heart everyone – if Jerry could pull it off, the game ain’t over. My husband and I both looked at each other and said, “We’re voting for JERRY????” And we did. And so did everyone else. If I weren’t so busy doing advocacy, I’d join the party and throw his tushy OUT.

choicelady : Bourne – that’s sad. They want someone else to do stuff for them. Ouch. It’s partly why the baggers won; it’s an American value. One is you have to race to the head of the line (on a freeway that’s pretty hard) and the second is that you should not have to break a sweat to get what you want. Someone else should get it for you. And we wonder why nothing gets better…

AdLib : CL – Thanks for the correction about Yes on 8’s money and how they self-destructed on that. The problem comes when one tries to simplify things to fit a single proposition. Such as “Money always wins”, Prop 8’s loss proves that’s untrue, as did the losses of Fiorina and Whitman. It isn’t a fact. People lose for many reasons that aren’t based on money though money plays a strong role. I do not think Obama will lose in Nov, I think he wins despite the money being spent against him because of things that are as powerful and convincing as money. After his speech at the Dem Convention, he will be on fire and so will Dems. That day is coming and we will be rallying and energized from then on. It just takes a little faith and a little patience.

BourneID : CL, I really didn’t have all the info you just gave me o Prop 8 – really. I’m amazed at how much detail you and Murph and everyone else puts in your writing. I just didn’t know all this. The LGBT in SF marches every year – I’m sure no one stays home. Maybe that should another march on election day…not a bad idea I thin. I have 2 nephews who are gay and they talk a great game, but honestly they want someone else to do stuff for them.

choicelady : ADLib – it would be a nightmare! Are we really thinking blood in the streets is a GOOD thing? If Romney wins, he controls the SCOTUS for decades, and then we would have almost no recourse other than violence. I’ve never been interested in a society that has to come apart like that – and we have NO assurances that progressives who are a very small part of America would be the ones pasting it back. The RW is too dangerous to even think about opening the doors of chaos – because brown shirts can goosestep right in past our pitchforks.

BourneID : Murph, that is fantastic. I do not want him to lose, but if he does and if I don’t move to Canada with CL, I will watch him and support everything he does.

AdLib : CL – Can you imagine the real prospects for a revolt if Romney won? With all the slashing of social programs, education, police, firemen, SS, Medicare and tax cuts for the wealthy? The Europe type austerity recession, if not Depression we’d fall into. There would be a real revolution then against the 1% and all the castle walls won’t protect them.

MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne from Think Progress. “Kennedy is widely viewed as a moderate conservative, but this perception is inaccurate. Although Kennedy does sometimes deviate from conservative orthodoxy on social or on criminal justice issues, he is a hard line conservative on economic justice. Kennedy is a zealous supporter of forced arbitration, a practice that allows corporations to force their workers and consumers into a privatized arbitration system that overwhelmingly favors corporate parties. He cast the key vote against Lilly Ledbetter and against equal pay for many women in the workplace. He cast the key fifth vote empowering corporations to immunize themselves from consumer class actions. And, of course, he also voted to install install George W. Bush as president.”

choicelady : Bourne – YES on 8 did NOT outspend NO on 8. There is a terrible lesson here – about 25% of the SF LGBT community did not even VOTE. And they rejected allies in the minority and faith communities, hired THE stupidest PR firm in the world (the guy in charge fired people if they did not do EXACTLY what they had scheduled in 15-minute blocks) and despite have the same money, they lost from stupid. No Murph – money does NOT always win. We beat the crap out of Mercury Insurance, T. Boone Pickens, the health care insurance folks, and on and on. I was part of a group that eviscerated the soft drink companies and all their money when we drove soft drinks out of public schools. I’ve seen the lesser spender win reasonably often, and the lesser spender on ISSUES as well. It’s NOT always the way to go, and the victory is NOT 90%. It’s more like 60% if the underfunded opponent is stupid about what they do and less than that if they are wise, have good PR (creativity is not always at the priciest level). It’s NOT hopeless.

MurphTheSurf3 : I spoke with someone a couple of days ago who worked in a principal organizing capacity for obama in ’08. She is now working with the Senate reelection efforts. She told me that she thought that Obama was preparing to fight an insurgency from the left if he loses…not going away quietly but staying in the fight. He is certainly young enough to do that. What is interesting to me is that this is even being talked about.

AdLib : Bourne – The anti-prop 8 forces had far less money and resources, that situation was more like the WI recall, a totally unfair fight. If Obama and Dems have 1 billion to spend and Romney spends 1.5 billion, well, there’s only so many effective ad spots that can be bought and $2 billion is way more than can be accommodated anyway.

BourneID : Murph, the Kennedy info still surprises me. I’ve always thought of him as the voice of reason. He’s a fellow Sacramentan, taught law at McGeorge (University of the Pacific) and always seemed so centered, reliable, responsible. It really hurts to think he’s one of them.

MurphTheSurf3 : Justice Kennedy writing for the majority in the Citizen United Decision: “Independent expenditures, including those made by corporations, do not give rise to corruption or the appearance of corruption….Th e appearance of influence or access, furthermore, will not cause the electorate to lose faith in our democracy.” NAIVE OR DECEPTIVE. Either way….we lose and Kennedy is their so called moderate (he really isn’t).

AdLib : Murph – I can find fault with a number of your points. First, the stat about the one with the most money winning isn’t how it appears. Incumbents typically have the most money and are typically victorious, it is the incumbency from which the money and wins stem. The slots filled 24/7, maybe when only one side has a lot of money but the Dems and Obama will have around half of those slots in the last couple of months, when it really counts. I know it looks insurmountable, to look down the barrels of a billion aimed right at us but we have lots of ammunition too and many ways to combat their money in a national campaign that there isn’t in a state campaign.

choicelady : All – THE best analyst of social change I know is Theda Skocpol. She wrote the definitive book on revolutions. She said “revolutions are not made. They come.” They are never caused by social movements. They are caused by major fractures in the structure of society. Obama understands this I think and, because revolutions are hideously hard on citizens, is paying strong attention to the right things to keep us going. His refusal to count ANYONE out, to be sure as many as possible are cared for, is helping buy us the time to fix what the 1 % has wrought without the bloodshed, ruin, disruption, loss of services, and unemployment that a full tilt revolution would bring.

BourneID : Murph, I agree with much of what you say about the power of money; I still have some lingering hope that people will come to their senses and he Romney will dull his way to November. But your point fits into the CA Prop 8 that was defeated – something that stunned me then and still does. And it was Mormon mony that did it. How this happened in a state as open and ree as CA is beyong my capacity to analyze. They have paid people to vote the way the outcome shows.

MurphTheSurf3 : WHAT DOES MONEY GET YOU? A) Expertly designed PR campaigns that shape the message to influence the vote. B) Slots filled 24/7 to overwhelm the voter on radio, tv airwaves, cable and satellite. C) Massive Get Out the Vote Efforts with paid for phone banks and street based canvassers. D) Polling firms to fine tune the messaging and focus on key, and moveable groups. E) Staff…tons and tons of staff to coordinate the on the ground game. F) Lots of paraphernalia in the form of yard signs, buttons, shirts, banners etc. And such efforts pay off….with victory 90 percent plus of the time. The folks with the most money win 90 to 97 percent of the time (per Open Secrets)

choicelady : Everyone – I do not see the Dream Act resolution today as entirely political. Obama said “It’s the right thing to do.” He is giving REAL pushback, is not apologizing or waffling, and he is not hanging around waiting for the GOP to give anything. He has, for about the last year, been cooly decisive. And I LOVED that he took down that incredibly rude reporter! Oh the RW may have cheered – but I cheered when he stood his ground!! These are national good things, Murph. Not helpful for your immediate situation, but something from the bigger picture to help get you through.

AdLib : Bourne – Good point. The 1% has been owning DC and pols for a long time, this is not new. It’s become ridiculous now and there can be a silver lining to it. People can become fed up with it and reject it, even activist about putting a lid on it. The pendulum always swings and there are always unexpected consequences to extremes. The greater the wealth and power of the plutocrats, the more inevitable their downfall at the hands of the majority.

funksands : Ad, I agree. I’ve also been focused on my state’s governor’s race.

Sabreen60 : Muph, I live in a blue state – Maryland. I really like Gov. O’Malley and could see him making a run in 2016. I am thankful that I’m not in a red state. I’m trying to be confident about November, but with voter suppression, Diebold machines, RW SuperPacs, I admit I’m worried.

choicelady : Murph – I think it’s going to be highly variable nationwide.I think red states are the big money targets not because of the electoral or popular votes but because there is NO pushback. No money, no millionaires, no real will in places such as MO. In larger swing states they are having less success. In blue states, they’re basically not bothering that much. So money IS going to be a big ass deal, no doubt, but I think what you see from us is the high differential among residences. And yes – given that I do this all day long, I do partly come here to laugh and be reminded of our strengths rather than pounding on our weaknesses. I think we don’t give you enough support because your situation is REALLY FREAKING AWFUL. And I haven’t a clue how to help you other than to remind you that MO is something of an anomaly. And that’s no comfort I am sure!

BourneID : Murph, watched NBC nightly tonight. There was a piece on Nixon and Watergate and it was suggested that the beginning of the decline of the GOP and the dirty stuff they pull began then.They’ve been doing this for years; they’re good at it. Dems act more like crusaders expecting everyone to be reasonable, nice, civil. We’re dealing with ugly here..really ugly. it scares me.

AdLib : Murph – I think it’s just a therapeutic way of getting out the frustration and disappointment with all of that. We’re in a holding pattern right now until the summer is over, stuck with the BS that the Repubs fill the airwaves with until the GE really gets under way. Then, things will change and what we do can make a difference.

funksands : Murph, I have accepted that until Citizen’s is repealed, the GOP will have a permanent advantage in money. The money game is over. Now the Dems simply need to figure out how to raise enough money to fulfill their needs.

AdLib : Funk – I will take your advice under consideration… I just repaired my car!

BourneID : Fiml. why doesn’t AL just ask Romney how to do it? He’s been a coma his whole life.

choicelady : Bourne – a flag waving lady? Are you SURE you’re in the right place here?

MurphTheSurf3 : ALL- May I ask a question….perh aps because I am in the a state where the money issue is slamming us up, down, left and right….where millions of dollars appear overnight….all because McCaskill is among the most vulnerable as the GOP’s masters look to create a Senate that is hard to stop…..I AM EXTRAORDINARILY CONCERNED. What are your thoughts? I think a lot of the conversation here tonight reflects that desire to run away form the mess which unlimited money has made.

funksands : Ad, you need to deliberately total your car and slip into a coma tomorrow. By the time you wake up in October, you should be ready for Romney

AdLib : That’s it, Stillson! And Obama is Christopher Walken, trying to prevent the Armageddon that Stillson will cause.

BourneID : CLL you are such a smart a** – sorry, I just can’t spell it out. I’m such a lady.

choicelady : funk – YES!!!!!!! Now if someone could just set him up that way to show his cowardice and venality right out front…

funksands : Ad / Choice, here’s the Romney scene: «link»

choicelady : Bourne – it was actually quite clear once we got out the manual of interpretation.

funksands : Choice: He’s Greg Stillson!!

AdLib : Funk – Yep, I remember the Dead Zone. You see ROmney as the Martin Sheen character?

choicelady : funk – OMG – that’s IT! That is absolutely freaking IT! I’ve been trying to remember what film Romney reminds me of all the time!!!!

AdLib : Bourne – No worries, you should see my handwriting!

BourneID : AL May I call you AL? Obviously I can’t find the keys when I type so I’ll produce a book of instructions…m ove one letter to the right or left and/or one letter above. You should be able to get my drift.

AdLib : CL – Well, I don’t believe Romney can or will win but just for argument, if he did, for me it would be like the GOP sticking out their chin, daring to be knocked out. And I would love to join others in having that honor.

choicelady : ADLib – I’m not sure about the cookies. Maybe he and his staff trashed TWO places? They were rude, dismissive, never thanked her for the use of her place, broke a cherished momento, and destroyed a couple of tablecloths – that’s what Romney sneered at: her tablecloths. He made clear he though that was trivial and of no interest to him. The cookie I don’t know about.

funksands : Anyone ever see the movie “The Dead Zone”? With Christopher Walken and Martin Sheen?

BourneID : AdKubm U di see Romney as you describe. He has two dimensions, boring and chidish.

funksands : Ad, I think Romney has a very tenuous grip on his own sanity. Seriously.

AdLib : CL – Which IA cafe was that, the one where he dissed the cookies?

choicelady : ADLib – what an interesting observation. Romney is REGRESSING as he gets more power. That IS like a snot nosed kid.

choicelady : AdLib – I lived across the river from Canada for years. They wax, they wane, they come back. But they still have a better society overall than do we much of the time. I just want to STAY home, grow old where I love to be, and I’m damned if anyone is running me out without a big fight. I remember the blacklisted folks in the 50s – not having that again, thank you!

AdLib : Does anyone else see Romney morphing into a teenager each week like I do? He seems to be shrinking down from what he seemed to be into a greedy little kid who agrees with the mean teacher so he can be in charge of the class when she steps out of the room and torment the other kids.

BourneID : AL, I agree about people finding a level of happiness in that religion, but I believe those born into it lose so much. A couple of the agents I worked with when I was a spy were Mormon and their lives were so structured; their children so immaculate, smiling, obedient. I can only say copared to my uncilized nieces and nephews, they just made me uncomfortable.

choicelady : funk – I know a Mormon bishop very well. He’s very liberal and a great guy. So I’m totally in sync with you. That’s why Romney’s “gestalt” (sp?) is sociopath, not Mormon. The Mormon just inadvertently led him to smile inappropriately. Did anyone hear the cafe owner in Iowa who now hates his guts for the damage they did to her place and the snotty “apology” Mitt made over the phone? That TV broadcast went all over Iowa – don’t think Mitt did himself any good, and it’s his borderline sociopathic self coming to the fore.

AdLib : CL – I do like Canada, it’s a great option but they now have a Bush-loving conservative government up there.

choicelady : Bourne – LOL!!!! That is the NICEST thing you could have said today! Makes me feel I lived up to my dis of the Dominionist bitch! Really did laugh out loud at what you said!

funksands : Choice, the mormon bishops that I know, that are family, are 10x the man that Romney is. Romney is just a shadow of a person.

AdLib : Bourne – I saw an ad for Book of Mormon opening here in LA, I definitely want to see it. Some of the happiest people and families I’ve seen have been Mormon. There is something about it that make many people very happy and I accept that even though I don’t get it. Conformity for some is a relief, for others it’s offensive and bewildering as something people would seek. It does desensitize you to those not like you and that may be one of the things that strikes you about some of them.

BourneID : funk, thanks. I like noisy, rowdy, rude, people. I’m a native Californian. CL, I love the way you talk -well, hhis is an awkward moment. I just say I like rowdy, rude peole and then I compliment you on the way you talk. well….

choicelady : Bourne – I once met a Puerto Rican pro-choice Mormon, so anything is possible. She was a stitch! But yes – I understand the “Stepford” problem, and Romney is right in that mold. His dad was NOT though, so I think we have to go back to AdLib’s post on sociopathy which explians Mitt better than perhaps does his religion.

funksands : Bourne, that is hilarious and very true.

choicelady : AdLib – the problem with being an expat for me is that I hate hot weather, and am just too freaking set in my ways. I know how expensive the UK is which is why I’d think Canada. I know parts that aren’t that bad. I used to live near the blue collar towns outside Toronto, and they’re actually pretty inexpensive, no worse than CA. They also aren’t very attractive, but hey…

BourneID : AL I haven’t seen the film; I’d like to see The Book of Mormon on Broadway. I’m not surpried at your description of the community. It is a very odd group of people. I just don’t feel comfortable with someone who smiles all the time.

AdLib : CL – Suh-weet! That had to be damn nice! Bye-bye, don’t let the door…ah hell, let the door hit you on the way out!

AdLib : CL – Really, you would move to the UK? Nice to visit but the weather, economy and expense out there is something to consider.

choicelady : AdLib – not slammed by ME, trust me on this!

choicelady : Hey Murph – hope you’re feeling OK? I’m not sure after my dealing with a hard core murderous Dominionist today that I have ANY insights. Those people bring out the ‘pistol packin’ Mama’ in me.

MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne…yep

AdLib : CL – Perfect. I expect to be slammed next week so no worries at all, I know how it is!

BourneID : CL, Murph is stil here, he’s just reading and letting us do all the work.

choicelady : Oh funk – THAT is just GREAT!!! I’m keeping that one!

MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…I am still here, just reading along, looking for insights and perspctive.

AdLib : Bourne – I do have a lot of issues with the history and tenets of the Mormon religion. I especially have trouble with anyone who wants to bring their religion into a political office. Have you seen the film SLC Punk? It is a very entertaining film but shows the counter culture in UT, the young Mormons who don’t want to conform who are total outsiders. It is the conformity that creeps me out about some religious people and the “other” mentality when they look at those not of their religion.

choicelady : Oh oh Bourne – Murph left. What happened before I came aboard? Poor Murph – he lives where it REALLY sucks.

funksands : CLady: «link»

choicelady : funk – no HERE. (That’s a lame joke…)

BourneID : Okay Murph. You’ve had enough rest. Come back.

choicelady : AdLib – the bitch who called – who may or may not have been the actual person she is saying she is – gasped when I told her I knew where all this was coming from. The Dominionist fighter pilot ratted her out – and never TOLD her that! I took the bitch DOWN, and I took him down with her.

funksands : I’m watching a replay of the 2005 Fiesta Bowl Boise State v. Oklahoma right now. What a game.

BourneID : CLl I am the world’s most dedicated flag waver. Iam an American too and very proud to say it.

funksands : Hear Hear!!

choicelady : But everyone – I AM AN AMERICAN AND WANT TO STAY HERE!

funksands : Bourne, all my in-laws are Mormons. I’ve known them for 20 years now and can say that I am close to them, love most of them, and trust nearly all of them. That said, there is no way in HELL I would every want any of them in a position of authority over me or my family.

choicelady : AdLib – hmmm. South of France. Must be nice! But I’m wedded to my very Anglo Saxon heritage, so it’s probably Canada or GB for me.

AdLib : CL – Just wanted to make sure! Haven’t heard “steeplejacking ” before but I get it. Good job, hope it was a satisfying slap down!

choicelady : funk – delightful to see you!

choicelady : AdLib – I’m working on what you sent over the weekend and will be back with you Tuesday. I had not one second to spare this week almost from the moment I set foot in the office!

BourneID : All, I don’t mean to disparage (if that’s a word) the Mormon faith, but there is something missing in most of them. When I worked for the DOD as a budget officer in my last leg of that long journey, I travelled to Oklahoma and Alaska 4x a year. On the OK trip, we always landed in StLakeCity. i must say, I would sit in that airport waiting to change flights and everyone moved exactly the same -it’s actually frightening to watch.

choicelady : Sabreen – you’re NOT! It’s the GOP doing that all by their little ol’ selves.

AdLib : Australia sounds fine but has had a conservative government. New Zealand is cool too. Then of course, the south of France ain’t too bad.

choicelady : Hi AdLib – I sure did and am NOT blowing you off.This has been a week from HELL up to and including an attempted steeplejacking by a Dominionist fighter pilot. I fixed HIS little red wagon.He’s trying to get one of our denominations to leave us – but the woman he put up to it has no authority to do so, and I told her to give “christianfight erpilot” (his web site) my “regards”.

Sabreen60 : Hi Choicelady! The guys have been trying to boost my spirits. I didn’t mean to bring anyone down.

funksands : By the way, how the hell is everyone? Good to see you all!!

funksands : Choice, we are going to Australia in December. My wife’s already said that if Romney has won the election she isn’t returning.

AdLib : Hey CL! Nice to see you! Btw, did you get my email?

choicelady : Sabreen – Vancouver is not very cold. Expensive as hell but not cold.

funksands : Oops. He’s missing a few puzzle pieces. My familiarity with the Mormon male priesthood holder makes me really frightened of a Romney presidency.

AdLib : Sabreen – It is amazing to think back to George Allen’s losing the VA race for calling a man, “macacca” yet today Republicans openly shout down Obama in the midst of a formal speech and get cheered by the right for it. But the reality in America is that racism has always been here, even if bubbling beneath the surface. For those who knew the extent of it, this is probably not surprising. A black man is President of the United States, what could set these racists off more than that?

Sabreen60 : Bourne, I love Barbados. My husband is looking at Canada, but it’s too cold for me.

choicelady : Jey Bourne – I agree. He moves as a unit. He never turns his head – he turns his whole body. Stepford President.

funksands : Bourne, good to see you. Romney is exactly as you describe. He’

choicelady : Hi everyone – I’m picking up Sabreen’s expat sentiments. I have the same. Funk – I’m with your wife. Canada is my choice. I would HAVE to leave – all the GOP signed a pledge to investigate every group that supports LGBT equality, and my organization helps to lead the way. I am NOT testifying before Congress unless I go in there to rip them to shreds over their bigotry!

funksands : Sabreen, maybe its best if they aren’t hiding it anymore. Snakes are more easily dealt with in the sunlight.

MurphTheSurf3 : All…I am still here. I am just reading along. It has been a long several days.

BourneID : funksands, it’s interesting to read what you say about Romney. There is somethng so odd about him. It’s like he was assembled but they forgot to put the instructions in the box; a moving part is missing. I just want that man in the Oval office; he in that office and a Koch brother in an office on each side.

AdLib : Hey Funk! First, Romney won’t win or I’ll move to planet Kolub.

Sabreen60 : Funk, sometimes it just gets hard. I don’t know if I’m bitter. I’m just tired. I thought many of these battles had already been fought – not just for minorities, but for women. Are we really having to fight about contraceptives again? How many abortion bills has the House passed this session? The racism is your face. They aren’t even trying to hide it. As I said, maybe my spirits will improve, but this shit is off the hook.

AdLib : Sabreen – Your disgust is totally justified. Also, it’s infuriating to hear that your husband has been treated so horribly. For me, what happened today though was a net positive for the good guys because it tarnished and diminished the RW and elevated Obama. There have been some pretty nasty people in politics since the beginning, what happened today is an insult to our democracy and The Presidency and one thing it’s done is rekindle the conversation about the racism of the RW and their extreme disrespect for our President because he’s black. No white president has experienced such disrespect. But we will defeat them because of their willingness to display their racism, indie voters don’t like that and they’ll be seeing more of it along the way.

funksands : My wife has already very seriously threatened emigration if Romney wins. She refuses to live in a country run by priesthood holder from her former religion.

BourneID : Sabreen I’m also sou’re disillusioned. It is tough living here these days. Have you thought of where you will go?

funksands : Sabreen, sorry you’re feeling so bitter.

BourneID : Murph, are you back? McCain and Plouff are guests on Meet the Press re the President’s announcement about immigrants. I don’t like the program any more but I want to watch because McC talks out of both sides of his mouth these days. He really getting too old and cranky to stay around. Also, wasn’t the dem win for Gabrielle’s seat in AZ great? A small glimmering, but hope

Sabreen60 : Bourne, I’m retired (early) and my husband has a couple of years before he can retire. We have discussed relocating many, many times. It’s definitely on the table. My conscience is clear. I’ve been fighting battles since the Civil Rights era. I’ve paid my dues. I worked for stone call racist and so has my husband. He’s been stopped driving while black 4 times in his life. As Fannie Lou said, “I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired”. Maybe my spirits will improve. But today, I just plain disgusted.

AdLib : This is why I think that in the end, when they walk into the voting booth in Nov, most Americans are not going to say, “I miss having an elitist and ignorant, lying jerk in the WH who had no empathy for me and the rest of the American public.”

BourneID : Murph, where are you?

AdLib : Bourne – So true. We all remember the smirking, snide fool that Bush was. Obama is an adult with class and the Repubs would be happy with another childish, greedy bully in the WH.

BourneID : AL, This President is an ELEGANT man – somethihg that few GOPer cannot recognize and certainly cannot imitate. He epitomizes style and class. I’m proud of him.

AdLib : Sabreen – And you notice, the whole RW is silent about it all. Isn’t there anyone with any decency who calls themselves a Republican and is willing to prove it by condemning the actions of assholes.

BourneID : Hi Sabreen, I don’t think we’ve talked. You can’t leave. As annoying as things are, my job is to hang around and make every repub I meet as miserable as possible.

AdLib : Bourne – Yes and I think it only increased sympathy for Obama, considering what humiliation white men keep trying to heap on top of America’s first black President. It is an embarrassment but as always, Obama handled it professionally.

AdLib : Hey Sabreen!

Sabreen60 : Hiya folks. Adlib, to say that I was pissed at ANOTHER person disrespecting President Obama is an understatement. I’ve had it. You know I understand why young people walk away from politics. I’m really on the edge. I am so ready to leave this country. I really am.

BourneID : AL the rude AH who interrupted the president is exactly what I expect from many in the press. I was proud of the president’s response. I like it when he gets p’d off.

AdLib : Bourne – I am very pleased with it. It is indeed, as he said, the right thing to do. And political, it was very savvy, knocking ROmney off balance and forcing him to look bad by tap dancing around illegal immigration. A home run IMHO.

AdLib : Issa is not well liked around the state, just in OC.

BourneID : AL You have a way with words … clever: tequila Romney. BTW, what you think of the Pres’ announcement re illegal immigrants? I love it. Anything he can do to help them and irritate Jan Brewer.

AdLib : So what did you think about that Daily Caller wanker disrupting Obama’s speech?

AdLib : But in the 1700’s.

AdLib : His district includes Oceanside and Temecula.

BourneID : AL = ;et ,e say that one more time. I didn’t realize he was from Orange County. What town/city? (the other is my new English version)…I need a secretary.

BourneID : AK U dudb;t reakuze Issa was from Orange County; what town/city?

AdLib : Or tequila. As in, we’re going tequila Romney in Nov.

AdLib : Murph – Try the malt wine.

BourneID : Why bitter?

MurphTheSurf3 : bourne….nothin g…sadly….exc ept the cup of bitter tears.

AdLib : Bourne – In LA, we consider Orange County to be a whole other country so we don’t think of him as one of ours. Still, if I could take him out of DC, be glad to.

BourneID : Hi Murph. What have you been drinking?

BourneID : Everything is great in northern CA. Hey AdLib, would you southern CAians consider taking Darrell Issa back? what a pig he is.

AdLib : Hey Murph! I’m all for karaoke!

MurphTheSurf3 : Hello AdLib and Bourne…..here we are altogether as we song our song or is it a dirge?

AdLib : Hey Bourne! Please do be our guest! I’m doing fine this mild evening in LA, how are things up there?

BourneID : Hi AdLib and funksands. i’m signing in but I’m going to behave as a guest. So please make it interesting. How are you?

AdLib : Don’t forget to say “Aloha” when you arrive.

AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then!