• AdLib : Looks like time to bring tonight’s edition of Vox Populi to an end. Thanks Sally and everyone else for making it another great evening and discussion. See you next week!

  • AdLib : Get some sleep Murph and please do fill us in on what you see and hear!

  • AdLib : Murph – Ike was a military man and McCarthy was attacking the military as having commie infiltrators in it, he wasn’t a man to back down.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Well, I think we have whittled the crowd down to a nub. And I must get some wisdom sleep. So….let us away. Great closing point Ad Lib.

  • AdLib : Murph – Great point, I think you’ve put your finger on it. The desperation comes from their realization that winning the WH is slipping away. And the comment from the business owner fits the cliche but true image of Repubs today, they would rather have their own lives damaged than have their party not “win” power.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….I agree with you re. the rush comparison. Still one of my points of admiration for Ike focuses on his repugnance for McCarthy – he knew the guy was no good and decided to take him on.

  • AdLib : Night Chris!

  • AdLib : Night Kes, sleep well!

  • AdLib : Take care CL and take care of your back and have a nice weekend! And no disappearing!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : ALL….I am really mulling over the comment I shared with you. The crowd at tomorrows GOPfest will have a number of folks I know as neighbors but there will be others and I need to have my wits about me. AdLib’s great image of the burning bridge comes to mind. I do not want to be a spark. I think folks here are getting desperate because they see the chance to get rid of Obama at the ballot box slipping away. A friend who runs a pretty sizable home repair/refurbish ment business told me that his partner (who is the business guy in their work) told him that it was almost too bad that their business had picked up so much in the last 8 months….becaus e it made Obama look better….desper ate.

  • AdLib : Murph – The McCarthy story is sort of a Rush Limbaugh situation. People were in fear of the power he wielded in his anti-commie campaign and begrudgingly followed him but once he was weakened, they were happy to discard him ASAP.

  • ChrisR266 : Golden slumbers, Sally and Kes, and I am out the door with you. I have an extended date with my laundry equipment tomorrow. Keep the faith, all.

  • SallyT : Night Kes and I am out the door with you.

  • kesmarn : As it nears 1 a.m. here I really should say good night, too. It’s been so interesting tonight! Have a great weekend, all!

  • choicelady : Good night AdLib – talk with you soon!

  • choicelady : ‘Night Sally! Thanks for sending the rain – we needed it!

  • choicelady : kes and Murph – Good night to you both. Murph – do let us know all about your Great Adventure tomorrow! Best of luck getting through it all! Have a good week, kes!

  • SallyT : Night CL! Will see you later!

  • choicelady : Goodnight Chris – you do the same. And float away on dreams of your cruise! We want to hear more about it!

  • kesmarn : G’night, c’lady. Rest that back!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice….adieu

  • kesmarn : Sally, if we get control of Congress and when the Prez gets re-elected…wel l then my optimism will be unbounded!

  • ChrisR266 : Good evening, Choice. Take care of you.

  • AdLib : Murph – Thanks for the kind words. I think most Planeteers are the same, we don’t look for conflict but we won’t run away from it. When we’re on solid ground, as we are, we can absolutely prevail. As we’ve discussed about McCarthy, when others stand on the shaky ground of lies and prejudice, they can and will be upended by us, sooner or later.

  • choicelady : Well everyone, my aching back tells me it’s time to bid you all adieu. It’s clearly MY weak link these days! So off to get horizontal and wish all of you a great weekend. Talk with you next week – sweet dreams all!

  • ChrisR266 : AdLib: I get you. That’s why the force is apt. It works for good and evil.

  • SallyT : If the President gets elected for a second term, correction, when the President gets reelected, it will be different because he can make changes that worried him when running for election. If we get control of Congress, people will live with changes for the good of them and the country.

  • kesmarn : Yes, AdLib. It happened almost overnight, it seems. I long for that sort of epiphany to happen now.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : AdLib….the hearings were important, but mostly because McCarthy was abandoned by the rest of the GOP…..and indeed attacked by them…why…Ike hate McCarthy and let it be known that anyone supporting him was in big trouble with the Prez (and you did not mess with the General). Murrow gave the whole thing a popular spin….but it was McCarthy’s isolation then and in the months to come. He died a broken man abandoned by all.

  • ChrisR266 : Murph: Oh wow. That is the sort of desperation born of deep seated fears. I am not suggesting that those fears are at all founded, but I do think that so many of these desperate folks like this man/woman see “their nation” slipping away, and know at some level they are powerless to stop it.

  • AdLib : Kes – Yes, that’s what I’m referring to, the “have you no decency” speech made at the Army McCarthy hearings shattered McCarthy’s image and campaign. But many others like Murrow hammered it to pieces.

  • choicelady : Murph – that IS a disturbing and very accurate statement. It’s what we all fear. But I think he will survive and will be re-elected. I just would prefer he not go the way of A. Lincoln in his second term. I deplore the violence that exists against him – it’s truly scary.

  • kesmarn : What did he mean by “a lot of desperation” Murph?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : ALL- Part of my conversation tonight in prep for the GOP Mo. caucus tomorrow was this statement: “Hey Murph, do you know what it’s going to take for Obama to win a second term?…..Stay alive….there is a lot of desperation in the ranks of our people right now…..” I said nothing. Disturbing statement (wrapped in what I suspect the speaker imagined to be “welcoming”)

  • AdLib : Chris – I look at it from the other direction. When people lose the things they’ve taken for granted in life, when their freedoms are being taken away, they get mad and they get out in the streets.

  • choicelady : Murph – the real push was during the uptick in the Depression years. By 1936 the major industries were starting to make profits (I once did a year by year assessment, and that was the year.) That led to the CIO, the sit down strikes, Little Steel strikes, the Wagner Act, and a number of other major changes. The GOP did adopt the demands of the returning vets, but they had to do it by repudiating the Cold WAr extremists who are the predicates to the Baggers and GOP of today. The Right of the 50s were the SAME DAMN PEOPLE as they are today – just younger. I think a big loss this election will push the Right back toward the middle. I hope that happens.

  • kesmarn : Yes, AdLib. I sometimes wonder if McCarthy collapsed due to one simple sentence. “At long last, sir, have you no decency?”

  • SallyT : Nothing wrong with being prepared.

  • ChrisR266 : Murph: and, to face the dark side effectively, you must understand the power of the force. Indeed.

  • AdLib : Murph – McCarthy was brought down by the Army McCarthy hearings, by folks like Edward R. Murrow and brave writers and other Americans who stood up to him. We have many brave folks like that today, OWS is proof of that to me.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….you are being a MIGHTY PROGRESSIVE WARRIOR tonight against the forces of GOP inspired doom and gloom….A*P*P*L *A*U*S*E……bu t like LUKE in Star Wars we have to face the Dark Side……

  • kesmarn : Chris…good points!

  • choicelady : ADLib – I LIVE for a better SCOTUS!!! You know – one that actually obeys the LAW???

  • ChrisR266 : Choice: on this we agree.

  • choicelady : Chris – that’s quite true. The strongest movements are not from those in dire poverty but those standing NEXT to them who have the resources to act. Starving people do not make a strong movement, but those feeding the starving do. That is what I think is happening – people coming out of complacency and using their resources well.

  • kesmarn : It’s a bit daunting to realize that we have to fight basically the same battles OVER and OVER. Women’s rights…union rights…civil rights… it never seems to be settled once and for all. Each generation or two –we have to re-invent the wheel!

  • AdLib : CL – If we fight hard this year and if Dems take back Congress, I think Obama will be in a strong position to make some big Progressive changes to this country. That is a powerful incentive for us to work hard for his re-election. And if he could replace one of the evil 5 on the SCOTUS???

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Choice, the 1930’s- the great depression galvanize opposition but it did not become effective until WWII shifted power back to citizen soldier cohort who came back from war demanding their piece of the pie. The GOP adapted to that.

  • ChrisR266 : Kes: Might I also add something? It seems that people’s vision clears when they have a bed in which to sleep, a place to do that which is relatively safe, and the capacity to feed themselves and those they’re responsible for. When living is not such a struggle, it’s easier to see more clearly.

  • choicelady : kes – what galvanized the opposition was the draft. What may do the same thing is the war on labor AND on women as well as the attempt to roll us back to Jim Crow. AdLib is right – they have over-reached, and all the money in the world won’t stop the anger of people disenfranchized.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Kes…McCarthy was brought down by Ike and GOP establishment. Do we have a similar internal reform movement available today?