AdLib : Night all, thanks so much for a great edition of Vox Populi! See you next week!
MurphTheSurf3 : Ta Ta All.
choicelady : And with that pompous note I too am off to bed. G’night all! AdLib – if you join Cher tomorrow, have a great time and please post pix when you can! Night Murph – keep us up on the debate please! Oh – sorry to miss you food and Khirad! Good night!
choicelady : Correction – CAIN’s lusting after the Chilean model. This keeps up, we will nominate the WRONG MAN and get McCain back again!
choicelady : AdLib – I think you are correct, but I suspect todays economy rests on Milton Friedman’s ideas which I would call simply free market. I’m not sure where they fit Murph’s issues. But at any rate, you can see how well Friedman’s “experiment” played out in Chile. It led to the overthrow of Pinochet. It was a disaster in every Latin American nation where it was imposed. Which is what makes McCain’s lusting after that model – the Chilean model – absolutely insane. He would be implying that a free market dictatorship was fine. It is, by the way, the Chinese model. It thus subverts the European by NOT connecting political liberties with market ones and by NOT connecting the liberation of the individual with market growth. And it’s becoming VERY popular and perhaps may be what American corporations lust after?
MurphTheSurf3 : So much to think about….my thanks to the Planeteers :>)
choicelady : Murph – it might also help if one thought of this in POLITICAL ECONOMIC terms. A very wise prof once reminded me that inside every economic act lies an interior politics. So trying to parse this as two separate things would perhaps be unhelpful?
choicelady : And I could very well be wrong about the labels. I don’t think I’m wrong about the process. Soros and the National Civic Federation are almost identical in goals.
choicelady : I’d love to see your post on this. The People’s View had an article about it a few days ago. My “take” is that neo-liberalism is someone such as Soros who has adopted the tactics of the National Civic Federation 1901-20 that was formed by corporate “liberals” who sought to stave off Socialism by incorporting “benefits” such as workers comp etc. It was designed to balance capitalism so that it had a stasis that kept it running and was not threatened by political forces. Soros I think is the same – make capitalism more humane, pay people, have single payer insurance so everyone is healthy, etc. Same with the original Trilateralists such as Rockefeller. It’s definitely better than massive inequality and immiseration and does rest on certain economic inclusion of workers-cum-purc hasers, but it all rests on one presumption – capital will never EVER share power with employees. That, I THINK, is neo-liberalism since liberalism began as a move to free the individual and was not focused on what became the imbalance of workers vs. corporations each as collective entities, one of unions and the other of shareholders.
AdLib : A real question is what legitimate economic model today’s conservatism is based on. I don’t see a proven or functioning model.
MurphTheSurf3 : Cher…..BEST to you and all those standing up to be counted tomorrow…..be safe and write an article for ALL of us who cannot be with you to share. Very good sign when good folks like you are involved.
AdLib : Catching up on the convo…
choicelady : Murph – what an amazingly great idea! That does change the entire dynamic and makes people focus on issues and ideas,not on personalities or whatever tends to gripe them. Outstanding!
MurphTheSurf3 : If something comes of all of this. I will post it here for you et. al.
AdLib : Great, not sure yet but would be great to see you and great to attend the Occupation!
MurphTheSurf3 : CL…Messing things up or grounding them in real time events and showing causal development. I have gotten good at creating these bulletin boards. I turn every sentence into a bullet point after removing name and other identifiers. I even do this in the brainstorming process when we want to divorce the ideas from the personalities. Works well.
choicelady : Good night Cher – have an excellent day tomorrow!
Chernynkaya : AL–we’re leaving here around 1PM. We decided this time to take the Metro to right near City Hall–that’s where it is. Where we met last time–but I’m sure it’ll be way overflow my then into the surrounding streets. I’ll email you my cell number. Hope to see you! Goodnight all!
choicelady : Murph – oh,my – historians are always messing things up! Thank you for scrubbing the ID!
AdLib : Cher – Could you email me details? I might be able to make it. When are you going?
choicelady : AdLib – it’s my husband who does this. Tonight I’m literally JUST the bag lady!
MurphTheSurf3 : CL…two things…a battle over liberalism as a political or economic term…seems to be pivotal…and the social element has been tossed in for good measure. Second thing…historic al roots which you excel at has reframed the entire discussion.
choicelady : Cher – stay safe tomorrow and have a blast! Occupy Sacramento is pretty tame. And lame. I shall live vicariously through you!
AdLib : CL – You are amazing!
choicelady : Murph – that’s great! What is causing skyrockets the most?
choicelady : AdLib – hope the little one is well! It’s perfectly OK that you had to do that – I ran out, too, to take plastic bags over to where we have the “safe ground” homeless program where people sleep in different churches every night. Husband is one of the people staying over. They needed bags to pick up the dog poop – the dogs stay out in a separate shelter, but they are well tended. Good program, too few plastic bags!
Chernynkaya : Actually AdLib, I’m getting tired. We were discussing neoliberalism, but you missed some good stuff. I’ll see you tomorrow god willing and bring back pix of the revolution.
MurphTheSurf3 : I scrubbed your comments of author tags and put them on a billboard for a dozen or so folks to look at….part of a think tank…you should see the fireworks.
AdLib : Pomegranate martinis anyone?
choicelady : AdLib – how kind of you to think there’s a topic!
Chernynkaya : She not only knows, she made me!
choicelady : Murph – I think these terms are probably useful to economists but not necessarily to us in the political world. Any light you can shed, however, would be appreciated!
AdLib : What is the latest topic?
choicelady : Cher! RAtting out your mindmeld partner on the donut! I’m sure she knows. You being in sync and all.
Chernynkaya : Cl–thanks–I learned something new about liberalism!
choicelady : AdLib – you and Cher can have the pizza. It’s that wheat thingy again. Can’t eat it. But thank you for offering!
Chernynkaya : It was kes!!! There.
Chernynkaya : CL–yes. “Neo” although it means “new” has come to mean “not.”
AdLib : Had to pick up the little one but took longer!
choicelady : Hi AdLib – glad you’re back. I won’t rat out who ate the donut save to say it was not I. SOME people better not either!
choicelady : Cher – it’s not anymore. Liberalism was the late 18thC. move to free markets and was part of the liberty, equality, fraternity of France and the drive for individual liberties in Britain and the new US. It took nearly half a century here to unleash liberalism as an ECONOMIC issue that was predicated on the liberalism of the individual politically. So what NEO liberalism is confuses me. It sounds as if it ought to be interested in greater personal political liberty, but the Wiki article says it is predicated on reliance on markets to drive things. Seems ass backwards. Maybe that’s why it’s “neo”???
Chernynkaya : Three pieces is plenty, right?
MurphTheSurf3 : Back…you guys are going to town on the liberalism/neoli beralism discussion. I am going to copy and archive it for second and third looks. I need to craft a response. I think the term misleads and confuses. Thanks for putting on your thinking caps.
AdLib : Well, that works out, I only have three pieces of pizza left.
Chernynkaya : Everything OK?
Chernynkaya : Hey ADlIb–everyone left but CL and me.
Chernynkaya : Kaynes is considered a liberal (Wiki terms it “embedded liberalism”) while freidman is not. As to the Baggers, I really do see them as corporatists–wh ich is a form of fascism.
AdLib : Well that took a lot longer than planned!
choicelady : Cher – I was citing the list of people in the link from Murph. They had both Keynes and Friedman in the neo-liberal article. Makes NO sense.
Chernynkaya : I just read that Wiki entry again, and I don’t see how liberalism is in any way related to neoliberalism.
choicelady : Cher – oh it does not surprise me that conservatives would not think the Baggers were conservatives. Not clear how to characterize them, but they are nearly nihilistic in their desire to abolish government. Not anarchists – too right wing – but maybe a whole new breed? I think we’ve never seen this from the Right before, though I betcha they’d turn fascist using the power of the state for social control. They just don’t want anyone to get something from tax money and to rise and fall via the markets. Unless it’s themselves, of course.
Chernynkaya : I’m looking that up. Hold on.
choicelady : Cher – I think that’s true about the term being derogatory, but from WHOM? The Sainted Milton is considered a neo-lib along with Keynes. Can’t BOTH be. They were too different. So I’ can’t figure it out. TPV had an article – was that Murph’s I wonder? – saying basically it’s a stupid term.
Chernynkaya : Actaully, people who consider themselves traditional conservatives (which is redundant) think the TP is NOT conservative at all.
Chernynkaya : CL I think the term noeliberal is derogatory and to me means someone who is more of a centrist than a pure, FDR liberal.
choicelady : Cher – I figured the protesters WOULD clean up the park. All one had to do was suggest it. This leaves Bloomberg no justification for busting heads. Probably ruined his weekend. It will be fun to see how he handles tomorrow!
choicelady : Cher – yes, the Clintons were and are neo-libs. It was MY understanding that Cheney, et al. are neo conservatives (tho that is often applied to those who started out Trotskyites and went MORE rogue) and I frankly don’t know the differences among them and between these two views.
Chernynkaya : Seriously kes, please email me and I’ll give him my number.
kesmarn : c’lady I’ll try to learn more about that. And Cher, those goodnight wishes are already tucked under my pillow. And thanks again all you wonderful Californians for being on standby for the lad!
choicelady : kes – get a bit of sleep before he goes. He will be fine – have him check in with any of the Southern CA people or with the couple of us up here in Northern CA if he gets to Sacramento. We will definitely look after him if he needs us!
Chernynkaya : Kes, I knew you were about to leave! Did you get my goodnight wishes?
choicelady : kes – liberalism really IS related to free markets. It’s the original concept following 500 years of a highly regulated NON capitalist economy. Liberal today has more of a political connotation, but in fact it’s about individual capacities to drive markets rather than community regulation. What I find odd in this is linking Keynes and Friedman together – I don’t see how they both can be neo-liberal. Needs more thought.
Chernynkaya : CL I think the faith community is vital now! The movement needs their gravitas and grounding. Looking back on the civil rights movement, who gets mentions? THE CLERGY who marched! It makes all the difference. and BTW, the protesters cleaned up the park themsleves perfectly.
kesmarn : Well, dearies, I have to say goodnight to the son, since he’s leaving at about 3 a.m. for the Detroit airport and I don’t think I can stay up that long. So I’ll take my leave. Have a great weekend, and if you see a young mathematician who looks lost, help him out!
Chernynkaya : Weren’t the Clintons considered neolibs?
Chernynkaya : Thanks, Murph. Will read it now.
choicelady : Cher – if Bloomberg were half a human being (and I had brief hopes from early this morning) he’d build a partnership with the protesters and help them clean up – bags, dumpsters, etc. But obviously his good will lasted about 30 minutes. On theother hand now he DOES know the faith community is watching. That may make a difference!
kesmarn : Wow… if ever there were a perversion of the word “liberal,” that’s it, Murph.
Chernynkaya : Kes–it’s a fast food place here–many locations like McDonald has, but good chicken! Yes–crazy chicken.
MurphTheSurf3 : Popping back on for a moment. Here is the article on Neoliberalism that the author was referring to «link»
kesmarn : The Crazy Chicken? I like that. (El Pollo Loco?)
Chernynkaya : CL–I wish I had been around the labor movemnet years ago.
Chernynkaya : CL– I wish I could do something like that. I thought it was also cool that Russell Simmons offered to pay for Zaccotti park cleanup yesterday to avoid a showdown.
choicelady : Cher – not on my leg, but maybe in my hair? Eeeuuuuwwww!
choicelady : Cher – wow, that is commitment. You’re right – not cheap. This is what I remember from labor stuff years ago. Bito can tell you the same. I used to make soup for the Eastern Airlines strikers then walk the line while they ate. Best things I’ve ever done.
Chernynkaya : CL–if you can’t feel it on your leg, ignore it.
Chernynkaya : kes, apparently it’s true! God, I can relate. What a BUMMER! It’s a rare condition–unles s her allergy is to time.
choicelady : Does anyone know what happens when google crawls? Kinda creeps me out.
Chernynkaya : CL–The most of the Council have been so cool. Yesterday (damn, can’t remmeber who she is) a councilwoman dropped off tons of El Pollo Loco bags for the protesters. That stuff is not cheap either.
kesmarn : Cher, is that story of the Vietnamese woman aging for real? Now I’m curious.
choicelady : Murph – oh good, toss out neoliberalism then go to bed. NOT FAIR! Let’s carry this on at some point! G’night!
kesmarn : “nailed,” not “nail”
kesmarn : G’night, Murph. Get that Neolib thing nail down, no?
Chernynkaya : Night Murph–stay well.
choicelady : Cher – he is a VERY good sort. He also had the smarts to pick GREAT staff. I am very fond of him. Remind me to tell you about his stint in drag during an “end of session” party though…and no I am NOT outing him. It was a gag.
MurphTheSurf3 : E mail is lighting up….the post I got is creating a stir. NEOLIBERALISM? Will say good night. This was interesting. Will return next week.
kesmarn : Lemons, and oranges, and grapefruits. Oh, my.
Chernynkaya : kes–think of the California winters! You’ll never leave.
Chernynkaya : Murph, I know, right? Perfect. And CL–yes, he’s kinda dim but a good sort.
kesmarn : Oh, yeah. I will have to move there, won’t I? How else can I meddle?
choicelady : kes – you will just have to become bi-river. LA and Toledo not actually being on the coast. So if he DOES stay, you get to come visit!
kesmarn : Cantaloupe. And. Listeria.
Chernynkaya : Then YOU”ll have to move here! YAY!!
MurphTheSurf3 : CHER….clever of LA OWS to use the Declaration as their tag line. a page from the tp bible.
choicelady : Cher – oooo I KNOW Alarcon! He is not the brightest bulb, but he always had GREAT bills when he was up here. Good on him!
kesmarn : Wow, Cher. A declaration of SUPPORT for OWS from the LA City Council? That’s great! I think my son is gonna like it there. But then he’ll stay and I won’t see him any more……
Chernynkaya : I saw we feed the TPers cantaloup. (How the hell do you spell it?!
MurphTheSurf3 : «link»
choicelady : “Night Sabreen – enjoy Black. He’s REALLY funny!
Chernynkaya : Here’s another reason I love L.A. This is the declaration by our City Council on OWS: “WHEREAS, the causes and consequences of the economic crisis are eroding the very social contract upon which the Constitution that the United States of America was founded; namely, the ability of Americans to come together and form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense of, promote the general welfare of, and secure the blessings of liberty for all, allowing every American to strive for and share in the prosperity of our nation through cooperation and hard work;.” It’s a three-page resolution mentioning Citizens United, foreclosures, wealth inequality, Egypt and corporate personhood. “I’ve never written one that long before,” says Alarcon.
kesmarn : Murph, is it me? I had trouble with the link. What do they mean by Neoliberalism?
kesmarn : I say we feed the Baggers a nice Vietnamese seafood dinner and then wait 24 hours.
MurphTheSurf3 : NEOLIBERALISM?
Chernynkaya : Both!
MurphTheSurf3 : JUST CAME IN FROM MY OCCUPY LINK….«link» ccupywallst.org/ Over the last 30 years, the 1% have created a global economic system – neoliberalism – that attacks our human rights and destroys our environment. Neoliberalism is worldwide – it is the reason you no longer have a job, it is the reason you cannot afford healthcare, education, food, your mortgage. Neoliberalism is your future stolen
Chernynkaya : Because I hate em.
kesmarn : Tea or Fire?
Chernynkaya : Let’s start another topic: HOW MUCH DO WE HATE THE BAGGERS?
kesmarn : I knew that all the time. I was just kidding.
Chernynkaya : Ah, but I was only kidding, so our telepathy worked. I just put up a humor shield for a minute.
kesmarn : No,Cher! You’re removing the peanuts so that the Kung Po chicken does NOT kill your dog! Our telepathy failed!
Chernynkaya : er, “love’
Chernynkaya : What I live especially about Black is his neurotic delivery.
kesmarn : G’Night, Sabreen. Lewis Black is the best.
MurphTheSurf3 : adios Sabreen.
Chernynkaya : I love Lewis Black!! see ya, Sabreen.
MurphTheSurf3 : Kes..I love BBC, Al Jazeera, Current, Link, MSNBC…..they are my constant companions.
Sabreen60 : I’m listening to Lewis Black – the man is off the hook. I needed to laugh. I’m going to say good-night and everyone take care of yourself.
Chernynkaya : Kes–yes! I’m gonna kill my dog!
Chernynkaya : Here’s a weird interlude story:Vietnamese Woman Ages 50 Years In Days «link»
kesmarn : Makes me wish I hadn’t dropped cable, Murph.
Chernynkaya : Google doesn’t care what we write. It’s just a perv.
Chernynkaya : I like Penn. Hate Piers Morgan tho. Murdoch tool.
kesmarn : You’re getting ready to feed it to someone with an allergy. Like Zorro?
MurphTheSurf3 : Penn: For the U.S. this is “Our Spring.” Chilling!
MurphTheSurf3 : Watching Sean Penn on Piers Morgan on CNN right now…talk about someone who has grown and is now leading….the makings of a social justice giant who really puts himself in harm’s way. His words regarding the organic development of the 99 Percent Movement are really wide.
Chernynkaya : I saw that kes. but I bet you’ll never guess what I’m doing right now. (hint–it involves picking out only the peanuts from a Chinese take out dish. With chopsticks.)
kesmarn : Google is going to be baffled tonight during its little crawl session.
kesmarn : Earlier,it was the word “patronizing” and Cornel West.
Chernynkaya : Good, Murph! kes and I always wind up typing the same thing at least once on Vox Pop.
Sabreen60 : I’ve got to stop hitting the enter key. I think it’s a sign. Anyway, I was going to say, Murph, I like “Visceral voting”. I’ve got to remember that.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sab….you called?
kesmarn : Absolutely. 3hwgiurj743.
Chernynkaya : Kes-[4fvij(78A&^
MurphTheSurf3 : I am more a Romulan than a Vulcan but I do grok what is being said here.
Sabreen60 : Murph,
kesmarn : Cher, mind-meld almost complete.
Chernynkaya : Sabreen I think there is a difference between “swing voter” and Indie. Not sure what it is, but something.
kesmarn : I think there’s a degree of truth to that, Sabreen. Also I think they tend to vote their wallets, rather than principle. People on the left actually do vote to tax themselves — for the benefit of all.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sab…Visceral Voting undid all the hard work of 2008 in 2010. You have named the pain.
Chernynkaya : Of course you were, kes. In fact. no need for us to communicate via type any longer. …..
Sabreen60 : When I have asked the question about indies, I consistently get told they are ill informed. They vote on emotions and not policy; that most don’t know what’s going on because they don’t pay attention. If they’re mad at one party they will vote for members of the other, even if they don’t know what they stand for. I don’t know if this is true, but this is basically the answer I always get.
kesmarn : Once again, Cher, I was just going to type the same thing about Angela Davis.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sab…like your thought..”Repub licans may vote for a “moderate” Romney, but not a crazy Cain. They want a Republican in the WH.”….But the GOP and the GOTP are not the same thing and the TP has the power to derail the train, but not drive it. I am placing a lot of hope in the TP to ruin GOP plans and give us Progressive another chance to take and hold the national government.
Chernynkaya : Murph-totally agree about the design. Is that a reference to Angela Davis?
kesmarn : Interesting point. Anyone know what Rush is saying about this lineup of candidates? I never listen to him…
Chernynkaya : Sabreen–diaboli cal and clever!
kesmarn : Good point, Cher. She needs to remember that it was the STATE people who did this to her, and vote accordingly.
choicelady : Now I have to go tend something for the “safe ground” homeless group at a nearby church. Be right back. I am sorry – no donuts.
Sabreen60 : I have wondered in Rush et al are pushing Cain in order to make Mitt seem moderate. Sane (?) Republicans may vote for a “moderate” Romney, but not a crazy Cain. They want a Republican in the WH. A teabagger would be good, but I think the powers that be in the Repub Party know that’s not likely. So make Romney seem electable to moderate Republicans.
Chernynkaya : Kes, that means she might not vote for pres at all. I think we have to not drop the ball on the Senate races!!
MurphTheSurf3 : Cher…the design is too retro and not diverse….misse s the point I think.
choicelady : Cher – if you could figure out indie voters, you’d be on every talk show in America. Notice we’ve not even heard much from Nate Silver? Slippery folks, those indies. But we just have to wait. Obama’s messages are resonating – up 15 points in just three weeks! Keep that drum beat, finger the perps, and Romney goes with them.
kesmarn : I think they’re having trouble figuring themselves out, Cher. The woman I know who works for the municipal court inadvertently voted for the Gov who’s now trying to crush her union. Yet she’s such a diehard R, she’s having trouble wrapping her head around voting Dem!
Chernynkaya : Time out a sec. I’m noshing.
Chernynkaya : CL–I guess I just don’t understand the true Indie voter enough to make a prediction. I can’t figure them out.
kesmarn : And yet, Obama never seemed to be picking on McCain — or being mean-spirited. Always the gentleman.
Chernynkaya : Gee, Murph–not sure that design is the best.
MurphTheSurf3 : Folks are really massing for a Times Square March in the AM. Oh My
kesmarn : Murph, I haven’t used this word in centuries: radical!
Chernynkaya : KES–Hooray!
choicelady : Cher – Romney is waffling though. He is good when focused, but reminding him he was pro choice, he had this health thingy, he was a whole lot of things he no longer says he is – he gets weird when that comes up. Obama was amazing with McCain who had many of the same problems – Sen. McCain, you once said this, now you say that. Which IS it – and for how long?
kesmarn : I was elated. After deep depression yesterday, c’lady.
Chernynkaya : Kes just call me Eddie Haskell.
MurphTheSurf3 : Shepard Fairey Designs Occupy Wall Street Times Square Invitation «link»
choicelady : kes!!!!! That is GREAT news!!!!!
Chernynkaya : In fact. Mitt is a Masterdebater.
kesmarn : Ray of hope in Ohio. The Ohio Supreme Court just overruled the Sec of State and said that a referendum on redistricting CAN go on the ballot.
Chernynkaya : CL–I agree except for one of your points–Romney has debated very well. And as I recall, Obama was thought to have lost his early debates. Of course, now he’d be spectacular against Mitt. But Mitt is a good debater.
choicelady : Cher – don’t rat out kes on the donut. I’m sure you can find AdLib another.
choicelady : Murph – you have nailed the key issues. Not sure state courts and DOJ can alter the blatant voter supression and redistricting that violates Voting Rights Act fast enough for Nov. 2012. Those are huge worries.
kesmarn : Teacher’s pet!
Sabreen60 : CL: I hope so.
Chernynkaya : I’m telling about that donut!
kesmarn : Yum. Sprinkles.
choicelady : Sabreen – Rev. Al says it’s all on for this weekend. ALL of it! This should be GREAT to watch! Kes – got his donut?
kesmarn : Quick, grab his donut!
Sabreen60 : Oops hit the enter key: …..about Rev Al’s march for jobs and the MLK dedication and the #OWS march taking place at the same time.
MurphTheSurf3 : Remember that ALEC, Citizens United, Crossroads, the Tea Party, Fox, Limbaugh, Drudge/Savage are ALL part of the kleptocracies plan to make the Dems a permanent minority. This has been in the works form many years. With enough ignorance in the electorate and enough money in the propaganda machine and enough voter suppression, it could happen.
choicelady : Cher – remember we thought McCain was strong against Obama, too, but Obama KNOWS what he believes, and McC and Romney both have doubled back so often they can’t keep things clear. Romney does poorly in debates because he can’t remember what he said when. Obama is just that clear – and his messages are GREAT. EVen the Koch machine can’t hurt him. So yeah – the focus will be on the HIGHLY redistricted house and senate seats in GOP redistricted states. But I think that may not help, and the DOJ is challenging several states esp. Texas right now, for violations of voter rights. And the ID laws. It’s just cranking up – but I think it will knock some of this game plan for a loop.
AdLib : Folks, have to take care of something, be back in a bit. No breaking in the liquor cabinet or eating the whole box of Oreos while I’m gone! Be back in a little bit!
Chernynkaya : AL–there is a very clear path for any of the Bagger candidates. If we added all the poll numbers for tehm they have about 70%. But I can only pray they will settle on someone–so far, they don’t seem to love anyone. Maybe they are torn between their ideology and good sense, and cannot see how anyone they like can be elected.
kesmarn : What’s going on about Rev Al?
AdLib : Kes – This is why I say it’s way too early to give it to Romney. The Baggers and Evangelicals make up a huge share of the voting Repubs. And they don’t want Romney.
Sabreen60 : Just did a quick glance at Twitter and there appears to some angst about Rev Al
kesmarn : How does that State helicopter get off the ground?
AdLib : CL – Unless I’m driving a crane, I’m not picking up Christie on a street corner!
kesmarn : You’d think Perry would have a lock on the religious right at least.
AdLib : Romney was a favorite at this time 4 years ago and lost. I think that could indeed happen again. If Cain, Bachmann and Santorum are out of the race due to losses and money not coming in, wouldn’t those voters go to Perry?
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice….just read your point about this message box….Yes, exactly….let’ s see if it could be done.
kesmarn : Yes, if the Repubs grab both houses, we’re screwed. (Now that funk’s son is gone.)
choicelady : Christie may not be running, AdLib. I’m not sure he isn’t waiting at the corner for a pick up though.
Chernynkaya : Cl–I agree but I don’t have much trust in the electorate to see through him. The question is: Do repubs hate Obama more than we hate their candidate. Will that motivate them to vote? Will we Dems do another 2010?
choicelady : Murph – that is what worries me. Rove will concede the presidential and focus on the Congress. We need a FIFTY state effort, and Dean’s outstanding work has been left in the dust. We cannot give up ANYTHING.
AdLib : Christie ain’t running!
kesmarn : Christie really is awful. I hope he sticks to his decision not to run and isn’t considered for veep. Funny how the RW is all about calling Michael Moore a fat ego-maniac. However….
choicelady : Cher – I think Romney cannot challenge Obama because his policies are wedded to what W did; what the GOP has done since 1980. He offers incredibly tired and elitist solutions to everything. Were he the Romney of MA, it might be different, but he’s pretending that Romney never existed. A doppleganger I guess…
AdLib : I think that Perry, with the huge amount of money he has and will continue to generate, could be primed for a comeback, based just on flooding commercials in the South.
Chernynkaya : Murph, I read that too–the Baggers are conceding the nom to Romney and instead focusing on the Congress in ’12.
Sabreen60 : I think it will be Mitt and I think Teapublicans will hold their noses and vote for him in the general.
AdLib : Romney is a good bet but I don’t know, he’s got 75% of Repubs voting against him right now.
choicelady : Murph – since Perry is a Dominionist of the first magnitude, I have paid attention to his policy record, and yes, he is terrible. He makes W look GOOD.
MurphTheSurf3 : Perry’s Texas record is really bad when you dig. He is every bit as awful as he appears….Cain will fade because he has no depth but Romney might love to sidle up to him….Romney has the money and the traditional kingmakers on his side…..He gets it AND they expect him to lose…the REAL TARGET…THE HOUSE AND SENATE with Obama as a scapegoat and foil for four more years.
Chernynkaya : yes, Murph–Cain is running for VP. I think it’ll be he or Rubio.
choicelady : AdLib – honestly I cannot figure out who will be the GOP candidate. I just can’t see Romney moving out of his rut, and everyone else sucks and is largely hated by significant parts of the party. And it better NOT be Christie or I will make it my life’s work to get him to blow everywhere he appears! He is the biggest bully EVER – and against ordinary people. Well -Cain’s not bad at that either. What a pack of evil people!
Chernynkaya : I still believe it’ll be Willard, but barely. remember, McCain was lower in the polls at this time than Perry however. Still, I think it’s his trajectory that nails it. And I still think Mitt is the only candidate who can challenge Obama. I’m worried.
AdLib : I don’t know that Cain would be Romney’s VP. Too much baggage, I think he’ll want a less problematic bagger. Maybe Rubio (as Cher has mentioned) who he might think could bring latino votes (Cain isn’t bringing any black voters…especia lly not Muslims!).
Sabreen60 : Night Funk.
MurphTheSurf3 : Perry’s Texas record is really bad when you dig. He is every bit as awful as he appears.
choicelady : Night funk – let us know if it was a bloodbath over at Maher.
MurphTheSurf3 : Romney’s runnng mate….Cain went to Morehouse College, MLK’s alma mater, in the heyday of the Civil Rights Movement AND NEVER took part in any protest or demonstration. He says it was on his father’s and mother’s orders who told him to keep his head down, do his work and get ahead. I think we know where Cain’s mind set comes from. He accuse Barack of not being part of the black experience. Projection I suspect.
Chernynkaya : Mishigas! Yay! Night, funk.
choicelady : Murph – I get it. The message box at the TOP would let us see what JUST got said instead of having to scroll back and forth. I had my big screen office computer home for awhile, and that also helped. MUCH easier to read and move.
MurphTheSurf3 : Romney’s running mate…..
Chernynkaya : CL–AMEN. I was just talking to Kalima about that–that we have to do our work (personal and professional) in Community.
kesmarn : Yaaay, Thom Hartman! But we’ll miss you, funk.
AdLib : Night Funk!
funksands : Sorry I got to go watch Bill Maher (hope Marion isn’t listening) Thomm Hartmann is a panelist tonight. I like him a lot. It’s going to be mishegas. Goodnight!
AdLib : NEW TOPIC: WILL ROMNEY END UP WINNING THE GOP NOM? WILL PERRY COME BACK USING HIS BIG WAR CHEST? WILL CAIN OR ANYONE ELSE WIN OUT AS THE “ANTI-ROMNEY”?
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…I will post to you re. the position of the Message Box. I am not being clear.
Chernynkaya : Cain is what used to be called an Uncle Tom. He reminds me of Pork in Gone With the Wind. He is a disgrace. But interestingly, Melissa Harris Perry refused to go there, instead stating that there Blackness is not monolithic. I get that.
choicelady : Cher – thanks for the “menchiness” award! I do – but with my husband (I forget the great word we were using) who suffers in silence. I think he also doesn’t listen. And who could blame him? He has the same problem though – he’s smart as they come, but he gets dissed by fools who don’t know a fraction of what he does. It’s just life. We bitch. We move on. We keep alliances where we must, even when they have been painful at various points. Progressives and liberals are too small a universe for this kind of snit fit that Nader et al. are throwing.
kesmarn : Well, I have to say, based on that, I’m kinda fond of Mrs. Cain. Why doesn’t SHE run?
AdLib : Following up with Sabreen’s great insight about Smiley, he was apparently pimping for Wells Fargo to the black community to get them roped into subprime loans. Here’s a good article on that at Jack & Jill: «link»
MurphTheSurf3 : Cain went to Morehouse College, MLK’s alma mater, in the heyday of the Civil Rights Movement AND NEVER took part in any protest or demonstration. He says it was on his father’s and mother’s orders who told him to keep his head down, do his work and get ahead. I think we know where Cain’s mind set comes from. He accuse Barack of not being part of the black experience. Projection I suspect.
Chernynkaya : CL–Here’s the scoop about Cains little woman: «link»
Chernynkaya : FUNK–Literally it means “a Person” but meaning a decent person. A good person.
AdLib : Murph – You can customize the size of the display box by clicking the “+” and “-” links in the bottom right corner of the display box. That should help!
kesmarn : “Menchiness” is a great noun.
choicelady : Sabreen – oh, wow – I did not know that about West!
funksands : so that’s what “mench” means.
choicelady : Eeryone – Cain’s lack of presence of his family MAY be because he can pretend he’s not Black until he shows he is with them. I’m not being funny. Having a Black family underscores his Not White Corporate Man status. Otherwise he pretends he IS just one of the CEOs.
Chernynkaya : CL–Oh I understood. I was not denying the feeling–just that you have too much integrity and maturity ans self-awareness– in short, menchiness, to let it out.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib could the message box be at the top of the page? Or am I missing something? It is appearing at the bottom of the scroll page making keeping track really tricky.
AdLib : Sabreen, yes, I just found that article and a referenced one by Chris Hedges, “The Obama Deception: Why Cornel West Went Ballistic” at this link: «link»
choicelady : Murph – oh, her too! I was thinking of McKinney.
Chernynkaya : Oh–you may be right about Maxine. I guess I’m immune to her coming from L.A. But I think with her it’s for different reasons. I think she really speaks to her constituents.
funksands : Sabreen: oooooooo snap….
kesmarn : OUCH!!!
Sabreen60 : AdLib, Melissa Harris-Perry pulled the covers off West by revealing that he fathered a child with a white woman who lives in the UK. She asked whether he will make the same observation about his own son.
MurphTheSurf3 : The Congresswoman is Maxine Waters….the quote from West is about as arrogant as one can get…which fits West very well…saw him twice in person….talk about being talked down to.
choicelady : Cher – I was speaking of my own irritation with being ignored which is similar to Kucinich’s. I just throw my hissy fits in private, not on the world stage. I have SOME pride, y’know.
MurphTheSurf3 : The Congresswoman is Maxine Waters.
Chernynkaya : Jesus H–spare me, Brother West, you patronizing bloviator.
kesmarn : Ohhh, GAG!!! That West quote! Can we say “patronizing”! Yuck!
choicelady : kes darlin’ – I have many petty days! I just keep them to myself because I KNOW they’re petty, and it’s embarrassing to reveal how shallow I’m feeling! Everyone wants recognition, and Kucinich has passed almost nothing in his time in office – and some of it was good. But honestly that does NOT give him (or me or anyone) the right to trash someone else who is getting stuff done. Behind every great person are legions of us little people who will never be recognized. It’s just life.
Chernynkaya : Oh don’t get me started on that piece of shit Foxx.
Sabreen60 : Murph, Here’s a short article located after a quick search. «link»
AdLib : Cornel West: ““I think my dear brother Barack Obama has a certain fear of free black men.… It’s understandable. As a young brother who grows up in a white context, brilliant African father, he’s always had to fear being a white man with black skin. All he has known culturally is white. He is just as human as I am, but that is his cultural formation.”
kesmarn : Speaking of Congressional idiots: get a load of Virginia Foxx lately? Claiming to be a feminist? That woman drives me nuts.
Chernynkaya : Wait–I got lost. Who, CL–which lady?
AdLib : Murph – Vox Populi is like a bar without a set closing time, we stay open until folks leave then we turn out the lights. On average that’s around 10 pm.
Chernynkaya : CL–I think that is what’s the story about those three. Pettiness. Yes, it’s painful, but they need to get a dose of C’Lady integrity.
choicelady : Murph – I used to like her, but OMG – she acted like a complete idiot over her arrogant refusal to wear her pin and then acted as if a low paid security guy was her oppressor. AND there is that little matter of Qadaffi! What the HELL is the matter with people?
kesmarn : Isn’t it hilarious that virtually every Friday we are talking about a different front-runner for the GOP? And c’lady, I don’t believe you’ve ever had a petty day in your life!
MurphTheSurf3 : Is there an end time to this chat?
choicelady : everyone – look, as someone who has worked her butt off (well, not enough to get back in those slacks…) I GET how the lack of recognition hurts. I hate being ignored by my lobbying peers and even my own friggin’ Board. But I hope I never get to be the kind of person who disses good ideas and good people over THAT. If Kucinich has ego, and West and Smiley have ego, then that is beyond pitiful that they’d lose focus on good ideas and good people over their own petty issues. I KNOW mine are petty!
Chernynkaya : Who, Murph?
MurphTheSurf3 : Got to check on the Wells Fargo, Smiley, West Link….I do know that both remain very insulted that they were not selected to be part of the Obama Brain Trust. Given how they are behaving looks like the White House was wise. And can we throw a certain Congresswoman into that mix?
AdLib : Cher and CL – Well…no, I don’t think Cain can win the GOP nom but he would make a great court jester along with all of the other GOP candidates.
Chernynkaya : No–he has a wife, and she African American. Also 2 kids, but it’s odd that they are invisible.
kesmarn : Come to think of it…where IS Mrs. Cain?
AdLib : Murph – Clear your cache and restart your browser, that should fix it!
kesmarn : And like you both, I used to like Kucinich, too. I don’t know what made him flip out.
MurphTheSurf3 : Got to check on the Wells Fargo, Smiley, West link.
choicelady : Cher. Mrs. Cain? Gasp – are trying to tell us he’s….
choicelady : kes – I know a decent person when I see her. I know she finally voted, along with Stupak, for health reform, and yes that protracted issue debate was painful, but I REALLY REALLY LIKE HER.
AdLib : CL – I’ve met Kucinich too on a couple of occasions, he really was a good guy but something happened and in his quest to be The True Hero of the Left, he undercut all his credibility to be seen as such.
Chernynkaya : Anyone ever see Mrs Cain?
choicelady : AdLib – So what if it’s Cain. Just so he’s Black…
Chernynkaya : Take your time Murph. We all do that.
kesmarn : Yes, c’lady, and while she has her personal views on abortion, she’s never once attempted to interfere with the operation of the abortion clinic in Toledo.
MurphTheSurf3 : Keep gettng kicked off the connection…got to catch up.
Chernynkaya : AL–you’re not saying that Mr 999 has a chance are you? Anything is possible–except that.
choicelady : TAVIS SMILEY WORKED WITH WELLS FARGO????? ACCE is fighting them tooth and nail here in CA against foreclosures predominantly in the Black community! Lying SOBs!
AdLib : Sabreen – Wow, I didn’t know that about Smiley and West and Wells Fargo. Fascinating and revealing! Thanks!
kesmarn : Cher, the Repubs have combined districts now to force Marcy to run against Kucinich for the same district. I pray she wins.
AdLib : Kes – I used to like and support Kucinich but once he dove into Firebagger Lake, that was it. Calling for Obama’s impeachment? What brain problem do people on the Left have that they can’t comprehend that if they help defeat Obama, it’s President Cain!
choicelady : kes – I’ve met Kucinich, I’ve loved him for years since he’s hugely supportive of many things I believe, but yes, it’s time for him to move on. I KNOW Kaptur is anti-abortion (and I’m wildly pro-choice) but she is perfect on all other issues. And she really WORKS on reindustrializat ion while Dennis has reduced himself to lip service. He’s lost his grounding.
Sabreen60 : Tavis has/had a long relationship with Wells Fargo and funneled money to West. They remind of the hypocritical Republicans. They accuse others (the President) of what they are in fact guilty. Wells Fargo with the help of Tavis was instrumental in pushing sub-prime mortgages to black folks. Yet they call the President a corporatist.
Chernynkaya : Kes, I think your wish is coming true. Wasn’t he redistricted out? And he’s a known crackpot now. Olives, UFO’s Impeachment of O….
kesmarn : Please let Marcy Kaptur send Kucinich into political oblivion…Pleee ease…
AdLib : CL – It only goes to show you that those on the Left attacking Obama are petty and self-centered in many cases. They don’t care about what’s best for the people, they’re motivated by painful personal emotions.
choicelady : Murph – I say we take up a collection to help defray Nader’s trip costs. One way.
Chernynkaya : Murph–HAHAHAHHA H!
kesmarn : Thanks, Sabreen…your link was what I was clumsily referring to.
choicelady : AdLib – well, I wasn’t invited to the inaugural either. So what? Most of the people I work with at Applied Research Center, Color of Change, etc. were not either, and they WORKED for Obama’s election. Can West and Smiley say the same? My friends all went but on their own dime and stood outside in the cold. I was there a few days later and walked to the White House and just stood there. So if those idiots think they’re better than the rest of us – eff ’em (glad your son is gone, funk).
AdLib : All we need now is for Kucinich to join Smiley, Nader and West and they have enough for bridge!
Chernynkaya : AL–great point about how Congress made this possible by doing nothing. In a way it was a huge favor to us–the opposite of what they expected.
Sabreen60 : Kes, I linked to that article and Cherm posted it also.
AdLib : Cher – Agreed. As Questinia was joking about GROW, I do think that people getting involved in various rallies along the way, including WI and OH, helped create an atmosphere of activism. And add to that, the disparity between the wealthy corps and people suffering has hit such a dynamic, you can only push people so far. I’d also add in what the Baggers in the House have been doing, repeatedly bringing the nation to disaster and refusing to help…people realize that they can’t sit back and hope government will solve their problems anymore.
kesmarn : Very interesting article on Atlanta, btw, including the history of the 1906 riots, Sabreen. Terrifying days.
MurphTheSurf3 : Nader has been nominated for the Medal of Freedom…by the Martian Federation. He will accept in person.
Chernynkaya : And let us remember that West was once considered the premier black intellectual. And while at HArvard, got fired by Larry Summers (or resigned) and so hates Summers as well.
choicelady : Sabreen – that triumverate looks like a recipe for dismal failure for THEM. kes – yup. The VERY big lie!
Chernynkaya : Sabreen–yes. And they are all disgruntled egomaniacs bitter about Obama’s popularity and office. I see them as petty and churlish has-beens.
kesmarn : ….aaaand my motivation question is answered, AdLib. Unbelievable.
AdLib : Sabreen – Exactly. And they have all disgraced and invalidated themselves by doing so. Apparently, West and Smilely dislike Obama most because they weren’t invited to the inauguration. What small men.
kesmarn : I’ve got to wonder what their motivation is…
Chernynkaya : AL–I agree. In a way OWS IS a part of the Arab Spring as well as Uncut UK and the other uprisings. It finally reached critical mass.
Sabreen60 : Nader, Cornel West and Tavis Smilely have joined forces to bring down President Obama.
kesmarn : ‘Zactly, c’lady! Talk about The Big Lie,no?
AdLib : Murph – Is there much of a difference between Nader supporters and Ron Paul supporters? Are cult members really so different?
Chernynkaya : Murph–awesome!
choicelady : kes – Soros is not that radical, so I’m not sure why he’d support any of the OWS people. And if he DID, wouldn’t they be better dressed with professionally printed signs? You know – like the ‘people’s movement’, the Tea Party.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice…I can tell you more…basically the Nader folk saw us as trying to invalidate their man’s “victory” BIZARRE
Chernynkaya : And this «link»
Sabreen60 : Anytime FOX calls you out you know you crossed the line. I heard Nader on FOX before President Obama had actually won question whether President Obama would be an “Uncle Tom”. That’s all I needed to hear – as if I needed more after the Bush fiasco.
AdLib : Murph – Yes, that’s what became clear about Nader, a narcissist with mutable principles. Remember in 2004 he happily took money from the GOP to be a spoiler. What a weasel. Now, he seems a bit senile, promoting a Wall Street corporatist for president…he’ s lost his mind.
Chernynkaya : HAng on CL–to your hat: «link»
choicelady : Murph! You are part of history! I had NEVER heard Nader’s people stood in the way of the recount. That is horrifying! He really IS nuts!
kesmarn : But dontcha know all those OWS are paid operatives of George Soros? Does he have enough $$$ to double the numbers?
AdLib : Cher – Mmmmm…pink sugar…ghaaaa.. .
choicelady : Cher – pretty donut! Sprinkles and everything!
MurphTheSurf3 : I was part of the recount in Fla and Nader’s Raiders actually worked against us in getting a full recount underway. Saboteurs. The man is a Narcissist.
AdLib : I think tomorrow’s protests will blow the GOP and MSM’s minds! They will be global and big…far beyond the puppet show that the Baggers put on.
Chernynkaya : AL-here ya go: «link»
kesmarn : Well, him and rigged Diebold voting machines, Murph.
choicelady : Cher – NADER is supporting the guy who wants to beat up the OWS people??????? WTF????? He thinks Bloomberg is BETTER – they guy who is protecting WALL STREET????? Please please – provide a source on that???
MurphTheSurf3 : NADER….grrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr . His enduring legacy. He gave us Bush. Will NEVER forgive him.
kesmarn : Nader has truly lost his mind.
Chernynkaya : AL–jinx!
AdLib : Heh, beat you Cher! You owe me a donut!
Chernynkaya : Funk–did you see that Nader is saying Bloomberg should run against O as in Indie?
choicelady : Cher – the Right did it in 1876 when, afraid of mass uprisings, they renounced the people at Bunker Hill as an undisciplined mob. Wrote that right in their sacrosanct MA Historical Society journal that year. So yeah – watch the Right today denounce their hero!
AdLib : Funk – Did you tell that person that Nader has endorsed Bloomberg for president? Mr. Wall Street!
MurphTheSurf3 : Cher and Choice…the fake cannot believe anyone can be for real. GOOD POINTS from you both. Thanks.
Chernynkaya : Adlib–double?
AdLib : TO ALL: How big do you think tomorrow’s protests will be?
Chernynkaya : “Duped.” As in “communist dupe.”
funksands : Ha..literally
funksands : Choice, I had a good friend of mine literally email me the other day, upbraiding every single person that voted for Gore for not voting for Nader, because then we wouldn’t be in this mess and wouldn’t be needing the 99%. *Sigh*
Questinia : Cher: hilarious!
kesmarn : Uh-oh, we scared him off… Sorry, funk
choicelady : Cher and kes – the Right will claim Lech was duped.
AdLib : Cher –
funksands : Scrolling type can only entertain him for so long….
kesmarn : Brilliant, Cher!
Questinia : Hahahahahaha!
choicelady : Cher – and the interesting thing (and the hair on fire progressives do it, too) is that when the doom and gloom fail to come true, it does not change the shrieking and finger pointing. We never seem to believe reality.
Questinia : Called the OWS people “rich with meaningless lives.”
Chernynkaya : Plus, it’ll be fun to watch the right repudiate Walesa and defend communism!
funksands : He’s gone.:-)
AdLib : Wow! Love Lech coming to OWS in NY! The GOP has gotta be messing in their underwear (see Funk? I can only keep it so clean).
MurphTheSurf3 : TP is different from the 99…the 99 are really engaging and not for a single day with Denny coupons and Motel 6 vouchers and touring buses…..hmmmm. ..Dick Armey and the Kochs…think they would help out.
kesmarn : So true, Cher and c’lady. Rush did the projection thing. Called the OWS people “rich with meaningless lives.”
Questinia : It is so cool, kes. It is inspiring.
choicelady : AdLib – that’s a good analogy. People impart the values they have. They know the TP is a lie, so everything must be.
Chernynkaya : Murph and AL–it’s the projection thing they do all the time. So frustrating! I’ve always said, if you want to know exactly what the right will do if in power, listen to what they accuse us of.
kesmarn : Isn’t that cool?
AdLib : Hello to Son of Funk and welcome! Can’t promise to keep it clean though!
Questinia : Thanks kes
Questinia : Thanks Cher
kesmarn : «link»
choicelady : Murph – some people need their little delusions. Sorry you had to deal with that. Good for you on the portapotties.
AdLib : Murph – Sort of the way that criminals think everyone else is a criminal? To Baggers, other grass roots groups are phony like theirs.
Chernynkaya : Q–it’s teu. He’s coming tomorrow.
choicelady : kes – oh that would be amazing! Walesa!!!! The original rabble rouser!
MurphTheSurf3 : Walesa and 9 other post Soviet activists.
kesmarn : Lemme see if I can find the link.
Questinia : kes… GET OUT!
Questinia : Great!
kesmarn : Hey, I hear that Lech Walesa is flying in to lend support to OWS. SOLIDARITY FOREVER!
AdLib : Questinia – Heh! Well, we did help make the Kochs a household name! And CL is helping us move forward with our Truth in Political Advertising initiative. Once we get to a certain point, we will be updating all our GROW folks!
Chernynkaya : Funk, I’m about to read it but wanted to tell you that yesterday on Daily Planet I put up a piece about the LA OWs and it;s spot on. The cops have been donating here.
MurphTheSurf3 : Had a battle tonight with a TPer who claimed the 99% movement was a fraud. Nearly fell over, but I was polite. Needed portapotties.
kesmarn : Awwww, funk! It’s Friday night!!
funksands : My son is reading. Keep it clean everyone. This means YOU Kes.
funksands : I love this town. OccupySeattleDai ly «link»
choicelady : AdLib – good. I was afraid you were going to tell us all to go to sleep – and we just got started!
Questinia : Adlib: I think GROW started OWS in some butterfly~earthq uake way
AdLib : CL – Yep but we were saying hi to all the folks that just “popped” in so I said “hi”.
kesmarn : Wow…thanks for all the kind offers — on behalf of my son! I’ll tell him. Although he and his GPS are pretty tough.
MurphTheSurf3 : Yes, Cher, you did invite over at HP as did Funky. Still fighting the war there.
choicelady : AdLib – isn’t that “Goodnight John Boy”?
Chernynkaya : Oh, but his GF will know–just read you carefully and see she’s here.
MurphTheSurf3 : My two little occupy events (neither in my home state) had lespt up in numbers because of today’s events. Things popping.
funksands : Hi Sabreen!
Questinia : Hi Sabreen! I’ve missed you all.
Chernynkaya : Kes–I wish I could show him around! If you like, email me.
kesmarn : Hey, Sabreen! And I’m sure I missed some people too!
AdLib : Hi John Boy!
choicelady : kes – I hope he has fun. LA is very fine!
Sabreen60 : Hi Kes, Funk, Food, Murph, Que and anyone else that I overlooked
funksands : Your welcome.
funksands : Muuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuurrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrpppppphhh!
Chernynkaya : Glad you made it. Did I do that at HP?
kesmarn : Hey, Murph!
MurphTheSurf3 : Chernynkaya and Funky…salutes for introing me to the Planet.
Questinia : M the S 3 Big thumbs up!!
kesmarn : Cher! So good to see you!
Chernynkaya : FOODCHAIN__HI!
AdLib : Kes – Email me details, hopefully we could at least grab a coffee!
Chernynkaya : I think tomorrow will be huge, and global. We are the ones we’ve been waiting for. Hmmm…who said that?
Questinia : I am so glad he’s appreciated, kes. At least posthumously.
kesmarn : That’s cool, AdLib. He’s visiting his girlfriend. First time in CA for him –ever.
choicelady : Hi kes, food, Murph!
AdLib : Hey Foodchain! Nice to see you here!
Questinia : Beautiful Downtown Burbank!?
kesmarn : Hi Q! Thanks so much for intro to the wonderful photog. Whatta guy!
AdLib : Murph! Welcome to VP!
Chernynkaya : Welcome MTS.
foodchain : Greetings to All on the World Wide Watch!
AdLib : Kes – Yep, I’m near Burbank!
MurphTheSurf3 : My first time on the Vox. Been working on getting services to two Occupy events this weekend (toilets and water). Done.
Chernynkaya : KES!
Chernynkaya : Q–that’s a good link. Guy has it down.
Questinia : Hi kes!
AdLib : How big do folks here think tomorrow’s protests will be…and they will be in other countries too!
kesmarn : Hey funk, my son is going to be in the Burbank, CA area this weekend. Anyone else near there?
Questinia : Sorry about that Ad!
funksands : Kes…what up?
AdLib : Q – Gotcha!
Questinia : East Village
AdLib : Hey Kes!
Questinia : «link»
kesmarn : As always, the phone started ringing at 10 p.m. and only just stopped. Any other day/time, no one wants to talk to me. Good Friday evening, all.
AdLib : Funk – Yes, will check it out. Thanks for creating it!
AdLib : Q – What is EV?
Chernynkaya : It’s supposed to be an online thing but that’s all I know.
funksands : Hi Cher!
funksands : Ad, btw, I finished the WMT, can you peek at it and make sure it is good to go?
choicelady : Cher – no – had not heard about Occupy the Boardroom. That should be very interesting.
Questinia : There is a very strong progressive provenance in the EV
Chernynkaya : FUNK–HI!
choicelady : Ques – I believe NY law allows you to protect yourself, but I’m wildly out of touch with rental issues there. I hope you come out of this well! Bastards!
Chernynkaya : Does anyone know about tomorrow’s Occupy the Boardroom? I can’t figure it out.
choicelady : AdLib – they will GET to $3. They won’t start there – they will gently phase it in with the white collar people. They WILL brutalize the blue collar and service sector. Already are.
funksands : Good twitter lure for the site perhaps
AdLib : I like it! #OPOV!
Questinia : I can be just as big a corporate asshole. Pluse the entire neighborhood has mobilized against them
choicelady : Cher – thanks for reposting a summation of Dionne. He said it really well. Yup – let’s turn over the mess to the people who CAUSED the mess. That’ll fix it. Or us…
funksands : Occupy Planet POV. I’ve got my sleeping bag. Ad, you better have food in the fridge
AdLib : Hey Funk!
Questinia : So I am NOT paying rent.
AdLib : CL – You’re being generous. In a deregulated America, there would be no minimum wage and corporations would pit the unemployed against each other, working for $3/hr.
Questinia : My EV building has just been bought by a predatory corporation. They haven’t returned my lease over three months.
choicelady : Hey funk! Nice to see you. Yes – what is OPPOV?
funksands : Questina, yes! I’m not leaving.
Chernynkaya : I just have to repost this from EJ Dione:So let’s see: The solution to large-scale abuses of the financial system, a breakdown of the private sector, extreme economic inequality and the failure of companies and individuals to invest and create jobs is — well, to give even more money and power to very wealthy people, to disable government and to trust those who got us into the mess to get us out of it. That’s a brief summary of the news from the Republican Party this week. It’s what Republican candidates said during the Washington Post-Bloomberg debate, and it’s the signal Senate Republicans sent in voting as a bloc against President Obama’s jobs bill. Don’t just do something, stand there. Those who have plenty of capital to invest are holding back because consumers don’t have enough cash. But let’s not give potential middle-class buyers jobs and money to spend. No, let’s heap yet more resources onto investors. And if sharp guys made fortunes writing abusive mortgages, let’s repeal all the rules we just passed to prevent them from doing the same thing again. Better yet, don’t blame the people who got the windfalls. Blame poor people. Thus did Rep. Michele Bachmann place responsibility for the mortgage mess on the Community Reinvestment Act, a law aimed at preventing discrimination against people in neighborhoods, many of them predominantly African-American , where banks wouldn’t make loans. The CRA had nothing to do with the proliferation of subprime mortgages; old-fashioned greed did the trick there. But it’s so much easier to pass the buck to the powerless. They don’t make many campaign contributions.
AdLib : Cher – I think that is what ideologues need to be, blind to everything including logic, trying to shape and carve reality to fit in their little minds.
choicelady : Ques – it’s amazing to look at films from the 1950s where ordinary working people had nice places in Manhattan, where a family could raise its kids in decent and affordable housing. It is horrific to see the HGTV program – “Selling Manhattan” where 1 BR condos START at $1 million, and then it’s shoehorn your stuff in…
Questinia : fs- Is that Occupy POV?
funksands : Its time for #OPPOV
Chernynkaya : CL–yes. And if god forbid a Re is elected, you will see unemployment decline, credit eased, and we will be able to compete with the Chinese on their terms–in work camps.
AdLib : Cher – I think you’re right, there could be more radical groups that distill out of OWS but that is part of such a populist movement. As happened in the 60’s, they could have an impact positively if they don’t cross the line. If they do, they’ll be eschewed and eventually marginalized.
choicelady : AdLib – NOW you see the light! The problem is the 1% are supposed to have MORE than they have NOW. Glad you finally understood the Bagger Philosophy.
Questinia : NYC is such a mall for the rich. It has really changed. OWS at least, from a cultural perspective is an antidote to that…
choicelady : Everyone – if you think about the TP message of deregulation, there IS a truth in it. That probably would have eased credit and increased employment BUT in an increasingly narrowed political universe where mergers and acquisitions and political power would have squeezed the life blood out of us. They want workers – lower pay, no benefits, and with NO voice at all. So the question is whether we are willing to take that in exchange for getting $8 an hour management jobs? THAT was their expectation.
Chernynkaya : Q–I agree, and you serving hot chocolate will be great fun too.
AdLib : CL – That Bagger lady makes as much sense as most Baggers. So the problem with the wealthy having so much and 99% having so little…is due to all the laws and regulations keeping the wealthy from having more! I get it!
Chernynkaya : Their cognitive dissonance never stops stunning me. I can only think of them as actually impaired.
Questinia : They say winter will quell OWS in Manhattan. But I really don’t think so. I am fully prepared to go there and serve hot chocolate.
Chernynkaya : AL that will be the challenge. But I bet as in the 60s will form offshoots–like SDS, Black Panthers, etc.
AdLib : Q – So true, I am thrilled with this truly populist movement…as well as the confusion of the establishment at true populism. “But isn’t someone supposed to make a populist group follow them?”
choicelady : AdLib – the Bagger Lady mentioned that – but(seriously) said that it was all because the banks were OVER REGULATED so the government should not have bailed them out, they should have deregulated them and then they’d have solved all the problems.
choicelady : Ques – I hope you’re right. It really demands respect among us for people doing what we are not. The Left tends to sneer at other people’s work if it’s different from their own. I hope this energy and diversity hold up.
AdLib : Cher – Exactly, the GOP and Baggers are now firmly on the side of the 1% and against the 99%. Not very well thought out.
Sabreen60 : Cherm, You deserved it and IMO I didn’t adequately express how much I appreciate all the info you impart.
Chernynkaya : CL-I don’t know which person you mean–not Victoria Jackson? She was inadvertantly hilarious and actually seemed like a 5th column against the TP.
AdLib : CL – It’s hilarious to anyone who remembers the first alleged reason for the Baggers coming together…AGAIN ST THE TARP BAIL OUT FOR THE GREEDY BANKS!!! Look how corrupted they’ve become over just a year and a half!
choicelady : Cher – the spokeswoman (I gather she’s national head of the TP?) looked like a kewpie doll. I was therefore NOT surprised to hear cheeping coming from her.
Questinia : There is the potential for so much creativity with this… no party lines… no specific talking heads. Just personal histories interlacing and synergizin’. I love it!
Chernynkaya : Exactly. I love the pure clarification of the sides now. Of course, that won’t matter to Baggers and other righties–who, I have been reading, are psychologically too dysfunctional to understand.
choicelady : ADLib – yes, I think defending the banks as agents of the people is just about the WORST messaging not to mention policy the TP could embrace. Let it rip!
AdLib : CL – I saw that argument elsewhere too, at the debate as well, “They should be protesting Democrats instead, that’s what the grass roots group we paid for does!”
choicelady : Cher – my fave expression of Emily’s. I can hear her say it…nevermind.. .
AdLib : How about the Baggers trying to slime them? It’s like an announcement, “Okay, we are an arm of the corporate powers! We give!”
Chernynkaya : Emily LAtella.
choicelady : Cher – I loved the repudiation by the TP woman this morning – they are pro-government and hate the free market when the solution is to reduce regulation on banks that CAUSED all this and let them fix the economy! Hey – now that’s a message that’ll play in Peoria, right?
Chernynkaya : I firget AL–nevermind,
AdLib : Cher – To which comment?
Chernynkaya : But even without a leader, I do appreciate that the people from the Left have joined. If the R’s had been smart, they might have been able to grab a piece of it for a few days and muddy the message. But thankfully, they are morons and too hateful.
Questinia : Yeah… thery’re… MOBS!!
Questinia : It’s really the perfect cultural foil.
AdLib : Q – Indeed, without a central figure to slime, all they can do is try to call THOUSANDS of people around the country and the world, “hippies”. Don’t they remember who won between the hippies and the establishment in the 60’s/70’s? They’re casting themselves in the roles of the losers!
choicelady : Ques – that is a very good point. No single focus makes it very hard for people to push back. That’s part of what peeves Bloomberg I’m sure.
Chernynkaya : Q–BINGO!
Chernynkaya : AL–I think you replied to me, no?
Questinia : someone to “investigate”
choicelady : Quest – PERFECT!
Questinia : Because if there is someone on charge then there is a target.
AdLib : Questinia – Same here, I chuckle at all of the pundits an politicians saying, “What do they want?”, “How can they do anything with no one in charge?”, meanwhile the movement keeps growing in numbers, power and acceptance of their central goal.
choicelady : AdLib – I think you’re right, and I am seeing cohesion, not necessarily centralization, moving out of it all. Messages are getting tighter, and focus while still VERY diverse is still focus. I LOVE the “We are the 99%” theme – that really is a unifying idea!
Questinia : CL- she’s right here right now… that’s why I’m Questinia.
Chernynkaya : Hi Sabreen! Meant to thank you for your earlier comment –so very appreciated.
Chernynkaya : Right AL! It’s like another axial age when that happens.
choicelady : Hey Sabreen! Good to see you!
Questinia : Ad- magnets for the majority are fine for now.
AdLib : Hey Sabreen!
choicelady : Oh Quest – I’m so sorry. I’ve never seen one before, only heard about them. I am very fond of working dogs – totally smart and engaging. I’m sorry she’s not with you anymore.
Sabreen60 : Hello Everyone!
Chernynkaya : OH-CL–you are a tonic!!
Chernynkaya : It strikes me as funny though that so many media pudnuts keep asking what OWS is about. If they can’t figure it out they are lying or stupid. We know what it’s about without any particular demands.
AdLib : CL – As you know, from the beginning, my theory on OWS is that it only needs to serve as a magnet to bring together the majority of the nation. With the one simple umbrella of needing to take action to reverse the control the wealthy and corporations have over us and our politics, I think such a massive movement would inevitably have some folks coming together on Health Care, others on tax code, others on election reform. Remember the 60’s? You had civil rights, women’s rights, anti-war, pro-environment, pro-choice, anti-pollution.. .my simple goal is that this motivates and activates people as happened in the ’60’s and action will follow.
Questinia : That is Questinia, my maremma… now passed
choicelady : Cher – you could NOT be codgery if you tried – too pretty and vivacious for that!
Questinia : I love the fact that there are no leaders and no distinct messages. Fucks with everybody’s heads.
choicelady : Ques – the older I get the more individual anarchy appeals. I want to be a cranky old lady who does precisely what she wants. Not there yet. Have to retire first!
choicelady : Ques – like your avatar. Anyone you know personally?
Chernynkaya : CL–I have the same concerns. I keep telling the young ones (and believe me I feel codgery) that when we protested in the 60’s it took YEARS! They have to know that and stay involved–electo rally too.
Questinia : Individual anarchy? Oh I’m probably one of those too. But what you say is spot on, I think.
choicelady : Hi Ques! I am decidedly a SOCIAL anarchist. Not an individual one. I think people have always functioned best when they come together and form communities that are then self directed to large degrees. But individual anarchists are usually just narcissists lookin’ for a better label.
Questinia : Same here Cher. Fall is here and I am not outside so much.
Chernynkaya : Hey Q–good to see you!
Questinia : SMOOCHES to y’all!
Chernynkaya : AL, I think you are completely correct about envigorating all forms of involvment.
choicelady : AdLib – the only bug up my nose about OWS is people saying this is “real” and this energy will change things. If we’d HAD this energy – the energy my folks already put in – around ISSUES, we would not be in this mess. What worries me is there is no follow through for too many – we HAVE to keep talking to elected people about what we want, have to vote, have to be engaged. The Civil Rights movement knew that – this generation does NOT. If they elect a superstar and then find out the rest is grunt work, they get pissed and go away.
AdLib : QUESTINIA!!!
Questinia : I decided I like anarchy.
AdLib : Occupy Planet – LA?
Chernynkaya : A Planet gathering-cum-pr otest! That’s us. No matter what we do, I’m there.
AdLib : CL suggested it after not being able to join Funk and Patsy and I.
choicelady : Oh wow Cher – a family gathering at Occupy LA! Now let the RW diss THAT. Total expression of Family Values.
Chernynkaya : AL really? That would be so wonderful! Any particular reason?
AdLib : CL – In the end, if activism is reinvigorated through OWS, then I think all issues affecting the majority will get more participation and focus.
choicelady : AL – please give me advance notice of the Planeteer in gathering so I can make plans and maybe corral Sue.
Chernynkaya : Thanks AL–I know the feeling is mutual. Actually, speaking of other distractions, for most of my family the OWS movement has been a salve. We have gone a few times. My son mostly, but my niece is here from the UK and will be going too.
choicelady : Cher – awfully glad to know you like your hubster. Makes life soooo much easier!
choicelady : AdLib – My folks are not precisely OWS participants due to age. I know they care, but this stuff is for them to USE health care reform programs, and that has always been a big deal.
AdLib : Sounds like we may have a Planet GetTogether in December in LA.
AdLib : Cher – Same for me, from one hubster to another, say hi!
Chernynkaya : Will do, CL! I like him a lot too!
AdLib : CL – I think that may be it, OWS is pulling a lot of attention, as it should but there are other things to focus on too.
choicelady : Cher – please say hi to hubster for me. I like him a LOT.
Chernynkaya : AL–We will–or at least hubster will.
choicelady : Cher – stuff at work stinks. We’re giving a conference in a week – we have TEN registrations. I think we have to cancel. Cannot explain it – it’s on health care, but I suspect other things have commanded people’s attention.
AdLib : Cher – Take some photos to share here!
Chernynkaya : I think–fortunate ly–there will be plenty more time to go to an OWS event.
Chernynkaya : CL-just “pretty ok”? Not good enough!
choicelady : Cher – what fun! I’ve not spent much time with Occupy Sacramento, but did spend several hours with union people picketing yesterday at the Hilton. That was very fine! Have a really good time!
AdLib : Cher – Very cool! My daughter has a B-Ball game in SGV, wish I could join you then!
choicelady : I’m pretty OK – how is everyone here?
Chernynkaya : I’m doing well, thanks. Going to OWS-LA tomorrow. It’s been great!
AdLib : Hey Cher! Just fine, how are you?
Chernynkaya : Hey AL and CL–how you guys doing?
AdLib : Hey CL! How are you this fine evening?
choicelady : Evening all!
AdLib : Don’t forget to say “hi” when you arrive!
AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PDT. Hope to see you then!