• AdLib : Night all, thanks so much for a great edition of Vox Populi! See you next week!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Ta Ta All.

  • choicelady : And with that pompous note I too am off to bed. G’night all! AdLib – if you join Cher tomorrow, have a great time and please post pix when you can! Night Murph – keep us up on the debate please! Oh – sorry to miss you food and Khirad! Good night!

  • choicelady : Correction – CAIN’s lusting after the Chilean model. This keeps up, we will nominate the WRONG MAN and get McCain back again!

  • choicelady : AdLib – I think you are correct, but I suspect todays economy rests on Milton Friedman’s ideas which I would call simply free market. I’m not sure where they fit Murph’s issues. But at any rate, you can see how well Friedman’s “experiment” played out in Chile. It led to the overthrow of Pinochet. It was a disaster in every Latin American nation where it was imposed. Which is what makes McCain’s lusting after that model – the Chilean model – absolutely insane. He would be implying that a free market dictatorship was fine. It is, by the way, the Chinese model. It thus subverts the European by NOT connecting political liberties with market ones and by NOT connecting the liberation of the individual with market growth. And it’s becoming VERY popular and perhaps may be what American corporations lust after?

  • MurphTheSurf3 : So much to think about….my thanks to the Planeteers :>)

  • choicelady : Murph – it might also help if one thought of this in POLITICAL ECONOMIC terms. A very wise prof once reminded me that inside every economic act lies an interior politics. So trying to parse this as two separate things would perhaps be unhelpful?

  • choicelady : And I could very well be wrong about the labels. I don’t think I’m wrong about the process. Soros and the National Civic Federation are almost identical in goals.

  • choicelady : I’d love to see your post on this. The People’s View had an article about it a few days ago. My “take” is that neo-liberalism is someone such as Soros who has adopted the tactics of the National Civic Federation 1901-20 that was formed by corporate “liberals” who sought to stave off Socialism by incorporting “benefits” such as workers comp etc. It was designed to balance capitalism so that it had a stasis that kept it running and was not threatened by political forces. Soros I think is the same – make capitalism more humane, pay people, have single payer insurance so everyone is healthy, etc. Same with the original Trilateralists such as Rockefeller. It’s definitely better than massive inequality and immiseration and does rest on certain economic inclusion of workers-cum-purc hasers, but it all rests on one presumption – capital will never EVER share power with employees. That, I THINK, is neo-liberalism since liberalism began as a move to free the individual and was not focused on what became the imbalance of workers vs. corporations each as collective entities, one of unions and the other of shareholders.

  • AdLib : A real question is what legitimate economic model today’s conservatism is based on. I don’t see a proven or functioning model.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : Cher…..BEST to you and all those standing up to be counted tomorrow…..be safe and write an article for ALL of us who cannot be with you to share. Very good sign when good folks like you are involved.

  • AdLib : Catching up on the convo…

  • choicelady : Murph – what an amazingly great idea! That does change the entire dynamic and makes people focus on issues and ideas,not on personalities or whatever tends to gripe them. Outstanding!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : If something comes of all of this. I will post it here for you et. al.

  • AdLib : Great, not sure yet but would be great to see you and great to attend the Occupation!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL…Messing things up or grounding them in real time events and showing causal development. I have gotten good at creating these bulletin boards. I turn every sentence into a bullet point after removing name and other identifiers. I even do this in the brainstorming process when we want to divorce the ideas from the personalities. Works well.

  • choicelady : Good night Cher – have an excellent day tomorrow!

  • Chernynkaya : AL–we’re leaving here around 1PM. We decided this time to take the Metro to right near City Hall–that’s where it is. Where we met last time–but I’m sure it’ll be way overflow my then into the surrounding streets. I’ll email you my cell number. Hope to see you! Goodnight all!

  • choicelady : Murph – oh,my – historians are always messing things up! Thank you for scrubbing the ID!

  • AdLib : Cher – Could you email me details? I might be able to make it. When are you going?

  • choicelady : AdLib – it’s my husband who does this. Tonight I’m literally JUST the bag lady!

  • MurphTheSurf3 : CL…two things…a battle over liberalism as a political or economic term…seems to be pivotal…and the social element has been tossed in for good measure. Second thing…historic al roots which you excel at has reframed the entire discussion.

  • choicelady : Cher – stay safe tomorrow and have a blast! Occupy Sacramento is pretty tame. And lame. I shall live vicariously through you!

  • AdLib : CL – You are amazing!

  • choicelady : Murph – that’s great! What is causing skyrockets the most?

  • choicelady : AdLib – hope the little one is well! It’s perfectly OK that you had to do that – I ran out, too, to take plastic bags over to where we have the “safe ground” homeless program where people sleep in different churches every night. Husband is one of the people staying over. They needed bags to pick up the dog poop – the dogs stay out in a separate shelter, but they are well tended. Good program, too few plastic bags!

  • Chernynkaya : Actually AdLib, I’m getting tired. We were discussing neoliberalism, but you missed some good stuff. I’ll see you tomorrow god willing and bring back pix of the revolution.

  • MurphTheSurf3 : I scrubbed your comments of author tags and put them on a billboard for a dozen or so folks to look at….part of a think tank…you should see the fireworks.

  • AdLib : Pomegranate martinis anyone?

  • choicelady : AdLib – how kind of you to think there’s a topic!

  • Chernynkaya : She not only knows, she made me!

  • choicelady : Murph – I think these terms are probably useful to economists but not necessarily to us in the political world. Any light you can shed, however, would be appreciated!

  • AdLib : What is the latest topic?

  • choicelady : Cher! RAtting out your mindmeld partner on the donut! I’m sure she knows. You being in sync and all.

  • Chernynkaya : Cl–thanks–I learned something new about liberalism!

  • choicelady : AdLib – you and Cher can have the pizza. It’s that wheat thingy again. Can’t eat it. But thank you for offering!

  • Chernynkaya : It was kes!!! There.

  • Chernynkaya : CL–yes. “Neo” although it means “new” has come to mean “not.”