AdLib : Khirad – An interesting comparison, an unjustly destructive campaign to inflict long term and lasting harm to a society. And as you mention, it is just fate that one was born in the South or the North and being born into a system, even an unfair one, is beyond one’s control.

AdLib : Hang on, reading your comment…

Khirad : Oh, and night.

Khirad : I think The South has reason to feel bitter over Sherman’s March. It’s like Hiroshima, we can argue forever whether it was necessary or not but it destroyed generations. I found it surprising that my ancestors had been well-to-do, because after Reconstruction they were piss poor, and some moved on. It was an unjust system, but they had all their capital in it. They dealt with the system they knew. And none were recompensed for any of it. That’s where a lot of reasonable anger comes from, I think.

AdLib : Well, looks like it’s time to turn off the Vox Populi lights for the night. Thanks to everyone for a rousing edition and see you next week! Have a great weekend!

AdLib : Night Em!

AdLib : Em – Exactly, Sherman doesn’t come off as a hero, he comes off monstrous.

Emerald1943 : My computer is still acting up. I’m really going this time! See you guys tomorrow, I hope!

AdLib : Cher – Just to be clear, the Professor in Khirad’s video link makes clear that The South did not emancipate and enlist black people, the claim is a myth which plays up to the Herman Cain types.

Emerald1943 : Sherman was not altruistic at all. He pillaged and burned his way through the South, destroying property and killing the people. That name is still despised even now.

AdLib : Khirad – Wow…I am fascinated by that era and how decent people navigated being born into an unjust society. At the same time, Sherman’s destruction of life and society in his march doesn’t portray the North as altruistic. Such times do try people’s souls.

Emerald1943 : Khirad, I don’t think my family ever owned any slaves. They were simple farmers, but that didn’t stop Sherman. The Yanks burned everything to the ground.

Emerald1943 : Adlib, does that happen very often? Perhaps we need to do an intervention!! LOL

Khirad : My family managed to get their slaves to bury the valuables before they arrived and invited the officers to dinner, escaping Sherman’s wrath.

AdLib : Wait till you see, “GOOGLE IS DRUNKENLY STUMBLING OVER YOUR SITE.”

Emerald1943 : Adlib, yes it was. Wiped out my family’s home place.

Khirad : That’s pretty much the same revisionism of the SCV and other neo-Confederates . I bet Cain would eat it up. «link»

Emerald1943 : Ooooo Google, you naughty boy!

AdLib : Sherman’s march was brutal.

Emerald1943 : Adlib, I do know that some of my ancestors in South Carolina got wiped out by Sherman.

AdLib : Cher is planning on writing an article on it, I think it’s a great idea for a piece.

Emerald1943 : Adlib, thanks! Must have been that cache. I don’t know that much about Civil War history except a little from North Carolina.

AdLib : I just found it on this site: «link»

Khirad : Was that from the SCV website?

AdLib : Hey! Welcome back! Glad it’s working! We’re talking about how today’s political situation mirrors Civil War times…and a Senator from Illinois is President.

Chernynkaya : Good one AL! Thanks for that!

Emerald1943 : Well, I’m back and it’s working better now!

AdLib : This should please Herman Cain: “It has been estimated that over 65,000 Southern blacks were in the Confederate ranks. Over 13,000 of these, “saw the elephant” also known as meeting the enemy in combat. These Black Confederates included both slave and free. The Confederate Congress did not approve blacks to be officially enlisted as soldiers (except as musicians), until late in the war. But in the ranks it was a different story. Many Confederate officers did not obey the mandates of politicians, they frequently enlisted blacks with the simple criteria, “Will you fight?”

Khirad : Well, I guess that makes it a wrap then.

AdLib : Night KQ!

Khirad : CSA Constitution is big on the God. No controversy over a Christian nation. They would love that.

Chernynkaya : Well guys, huzzy came in and is snacking and distracting me, so I guess I’ll have to sign off–and try to write that post!

KQuark : Night gotta go folks.

Khirad : Judah P. Benjamin was a big-wig.

Chernynkaya : They were only white enough to fight.

Khirad : Funny thing is that the CSA seemed to think Judah P. Benjamin and Jewish soldiers were white enough. That was always odd to me.

Chernynkaya : KQ–I think your safe tonight! Heh.

AdLib : Well, as we all know history, it should be of some comfort to know how things will come out if history is indeed repeating itself.

KQuark : Yup that’s what I mean AL. To me the middle would be more polarized but that’s a bit of an oxy moron isn’t it.

Chernynkaya : And let’s not forget that the Baggers are in favor or the Confederate Constitution now!

KQuark : Sorry should have put a period between English and Irish don’t kill me if Caru is watching

AdLib : KQ – As I mentioned, I don’t know that there is any greater polarization possible than exists. However, an intolerant Dem could push away indies out of even voting and make Dem victories harder.

Chernynkaya : Khirad–no difference. And their supporters are the same types that like aristocracy.

KQuark : Remember too back then the South were Scotch Irish and English, Irish, Italians etc were seen as a different culture to the South too.

Chernynkaya : AL–yes–today it’s the Mexicans.

AdLib : Khirad – They’re not, that is what seems so clear as a parallel to Civil War times.

KQuark : It’s a different kind of polarization that is based on race so it’s uglier but I think that had a Dem tried to be a left wing W the middle would take sides more as well.

Khirad : Sorry, I missed a lot, but just how are the Kochs or Waltons so different from the landed gentry and aristocracy of the Antebellum South?

Chernynkaya : KQ–there was that too–the agricultural conservative mind vs the more liberal industrial cities in the North–culturall y. And even before the war, the South felt dissed and demeaned. Same thing! And why did the poor whites in teh South fight? Fear of Blacks and of free blacks taking their jobs and women.

AdLib : KQ – Could you expand on that?

AdLib : Cher – And the race issue is not so much about blacks as it is about the threat that Latinos appear to be to Southerners.

KQuark : AdLib you and Cher are right but their is an unspoken cultural aspect to why that greed mentality exists.

AdLib : KQ – I don’t know how it could be any more polarized than it is. Obama, like Lincoln, may be the perfect President for his time by being more reserved and looking for common ground. As you say, a firebrand Dem might be worse, not that partisanship could get any worse but providing a clear choice for voters to change things could be an issue.

KQuark : Exactly Cher and even when the Civil War was ending Lincoln did not want to punish the South when Radical Republicans were all about pay back.

Chernynkaya : AL–That is perfect–exactly . And the same types of people were on each side then as now. Most people were agnostic.

KQuark : IDK Cher I go back to the cultural aspect. The GOP (South) wants to go back to the way things where when whites had super majorities and owned all aspects of American life including culture and sports. While we are truly heading for a multi-cultural country.

Chernynkaya : I have been readin about Lincoln–his P)arty was so frustrated with him because he refused to speak out against slavery in the slave states. Frederick Douglass was a firebagger–call ed him a sell-out. So many comparisons.

AdLib : Cher – The South was fighting for greed and profit back then, just as now, the difference is that they are now the puppet on the hand of global corporations.

KQuark : I think if we had a more polarizing leader like a left wing W it would be much much worse.

AdLib : It’s kind of like The South has been bought out by corporations, Southerners are still the army but the generals are all wealthy and corporate people from all across the US.

Chernynkaya : YES! I see the South now as corporatism. It was then and is now. Even thought the North was industrialized, the South was fighting for corporatism on one level.

KQuark : Cher I think he does because he’s obsessed with keeping the country together like Lincoln just in a different way.

AdLib : The only thing is that The South in today’s scenario has no Lee. It has corporate generals like the Kochs.

Chernynkaya : KQ I have been wondering if Obama actually realizes he has the same antebellum situation on his hands.

KQuark : Hey Khirad

Chernynkaya : Heh! Hi Khirad!

Chernynkaya : Thanks. I want to write it already. Blocked.

KQuark : Yup Obama like Lincoln will be way more appreciated after his presidency is over.

Khirad : «link»

AdLib : Cher – No rush, looking forward to reading it whenever it’s ready!

Chernynkaya : It’s amazing the parallels as KQ said. And yes, Obama IS Lincoln reincarnated.

KQuark : Where’s bito with his quiet self.

Chernynkaya : I’m working on it AL! Hoepfully by Sunday.

KQuark : Let Cher do it she’s a much better writer than I.

AdLib : Cher – You’re writing that!

Chernynkaya : HAHAHAHA!

AdLib : KQ – Now THAT would be a great article, comparing today’s political situation to the Civil War!

Chernynkaya : Well, I’m trying to write a piece about that and have been researching all week. Let’s see if I can ever get it written.

KQuark : Chere DUCK!

AdLib : Cher – Jinx!

KQuark : Cher there are so many parallels to the Civil War or at least pre-Civil War days it’s not funny.

Chernynkaya : YAY! And take it from Sarah (KQ) Palin–RELOAD!

AdLib : Em – Yay!!! My Vox Populi Force Emerald to Stay virus is working perfectly!

AdLib : Cher – That’s the best term for it, they are effectively nullifying Roe.

Emerald1943 : Adlib, I’ll try the reboot. It won’t even let me sign off right now! You’re stuck with me! LOL

KQuark : Reload Emerald IDK Vox Populi software builds up a cache or something that slows it down.

Chernynkaya : AL–it’s another form of nullification. (Forgive me–I’m on a Civil War kick.)

AdLib : Em – A reboot should solve everything! And get rid of the Brogger! Have a great weekend!

AdLib : EM – But that’s the point, de facto, they are making it illegal. In many of those states, there may only be one or a few clinics where abortions can be performed. For many in those states who are hundreds of miles away and have no car, it is effectively outlawed for them.

KQuark : AdLib with another GOP GE victory say goodbye to the SCOTUS in many of our lifetimes.

Chernynkaya : So sorry, Em–been there! Take care dear.

Chernynkaya : But do you think the issue is still urgent to most people? I honestly don’t know the answer.

Emerald1943 : My computer is acting so strangely…real ly slow. I’m going to have to sign off for tonight! Thanks so much everyone! Great conversation! I just love VOX Populi! Everybody, have a wonderful night!

Chernynkaya : Em, but I think that has the same effect as banning abortion. I wonder if enough people still have the will to fight for RvW.

AdLib : Cher – Then that needs to happen. If it takes Roe being overturned by a RW SCOTUS for voters to get out to the polls and vote for Dems to pass a law protecting it, then so be it. The path to ultimate victory sometimes requires losing some battles so you can win the final one. As it is, Roe V. Wade is pretty weak and weakening anyway.

Chernynkaya : Good idea, AL. Just make sure their other choices are stupid! (Kidding!)

Emerald1943 : Adlib, theoretically that’s true. But the states are not overturning Roe v Wade itself, just putting impossible laws into effect, like the size of clinic rooms, lighting, etc. to cause problems for the clinics.

Chernynkaya : (I also read a LONG piece.);-)

AdLib : Yes, I saw that Cher and Emerald has expressed the same thing. What I’d like to do is to post a poll for people to vote on what issue they want to pursue first and get Planeteers enlisted in this. Then, we can take on one after the other.

Chernynkaya : When Bush was running for office, I read a ling piece in the NY Review about how under him Roe v Wade would eventually be overturnd by his appointees. It will.

AdLib : EM – But the truth is, abortion IS being outlawed state by state anyway. If it’s overturned, things wouldn’t look much different around the US, the states using sly ways of blocking it would still block it and the states supporting it would provide it. We need stronger enforcement and the fact that states have de facto outlawed abortion means that Roe V. Wade isn’t working anymore.

Emerald1943 : Adlib, I am excited about this. On the voter suppression thing, I am wondering how much of this falls under the states rather than Federal jurisdiction.

Chernynkaya : AL–that’a what I suggested too on DP–I really want that to be our first issue.

Chernynkaya : KQ–that’s actually brilliant! That’s a fact.

KQuark : Cher it happened with Perot and while Nader cost Gore the election no party on the left will ever get more than 5% of the vote.

KQuark : Oh and Cher that’s why I call out the left’s nature. The irony is the GOP hates government but turns out to vote and the left thinks government is the answer and does not want to vote. In some ways this makes conservatives more sincere.

AdLib : Cher and Em – Once the WH’s petition site is up and running, we’ll have some decisions to make about the petitions we’ll initiate or support. Voting rights being violated in states might be at the top of the list.

Emerald1943 : Adlib, agreed…but if the SCOTUS did overturn Roe v Wade, think of the long-term ramifications of that debacle!

Chernynkaya : KQ that’s a possibility and I wouldn’t mind that either!

AdLib : EM – Exactly. There is no point to keeping a useless law on the books. It’s like exercising a muscle, the less you use a law, the weaker it gets. And if the SCOTUS overturns something, it’s cause to fight for a new law. Just laying back in the river and letting the piranhas eat you slower than a tiger would, is hardly comforting.

Emerald1943 : Adlib, no…it’s a brogger!

Chernynkaya : AL–Oh I agree! I think the fact that the 18 Senators wrote is important. WE have to too! But shit–there is so many things to write someone about!!!!

KQuark : Cher very true but I think the other thing that can happen is the Baggers really start a viable third party that would strip GOP votes.

Emerald1943 : Adlib, that’s the same reasoning behind people being afraid to take the abortion rights issue in Kansas to the courts. They are afraid that will allow SCOTUS to overturn Roe v. Wade.

AdLib : Or a Bowser?

Chernynkaya : KQ–but by our different natures (Dems v Baggers) they will never disengage for long the way our side does. They are basically the South–if not geographically, philosophically. ) They are aggrieved always and always hate the demographic shift in the country. So they are always highly motivated.

KQuark : Emerald.

AdLib : EM – Is a Bagger in a Browser…a Bragger?

Emerald1943 : Damn, that bagger in my browser is really annoying!

AdLib : Cher – Yes I read it but such thinking always pisses me off. They’re allegedly afraid of using a law to bring a state to court for fear the VRA will be overturned. That’s like being afraid to use a gun to protect yourself from a killer for fear it could be taken away from you. The law is there and it needs to be used, what does it matter if people violate it purposely and you do nothing?

KQuark : Exactly if the GOP does not deliver and believe me no matter what Boehner says the GOP has not delivered for the Baggers they could turn on the GOP.

Emerald1943 : KQ, we’re going to be fighting the RW machine with “undisclosed” donors, thanks to SCO

KQuark : Emerald true money is the only thing I don’t worry about with Obama.

Emerald1943 : KQ, maybe the baggers will become disillusioned like some on the far left.

Chernynkaya : It may be a unique case–as it was in MAss with Scott Brown. But we cannot afford those mistakes–ever! and they are demoralizing.

Emerald1943 : Adlib, don’t under-estimate Obama’s ability to raise $$$

KQuark : Cher in many ways how they diminish and what they morph into is more important. It would be great if Baggers turned off politics like the further left has done so often.

AdLib : Cher – That’s a unique case, the Dem nom has made a series of missteps and the constituency there is lower educated, conservative Dems who aren’t crazy about Obama. Yet, there is a lot of money about to be thrown in that race by Dems.

Emerald1943 : Adlib, mybagger in my browser did it again! If the AJA kicks in between now and the election, the economny may be somewhat better and unemployment down a little bit. The people are very much aware of things now and will be watching.

KQuark : Fortunately those laws will never be able to keep up with the demographics of diversity AdLib.

Chernynkaya : Did you get to read that link about voter laws and the DOJ?

Chernynkaya : Yes, I agree that they will diminish, AL and KQ.

AdLib : Cher – True, as long as more Americans vote, the Repubs can’t win. Hence all the Voter ID laws and other plots to limit turnout.

Emerald1943 : Adlib, that’s why we can never let down our guard! As far as waking up the rest of the country, things are not getting any better out there for the people. If this A

Chernynkaya : Well, I’d be tempted to say we would take the House. But look at Weiner’s seat in NY! 6 pts to the R.

AdLib : KQ – You beat me to it! Yep, agree!

KQuark : Yes Cher the apathetic middle are a much bigger concern. And that mostly goes with the left center as well.

AdLib : EM – The Baggers are just the Moral Majority with masks on. While their populist masks were on, people were open to them. Now that the mask has fallen away, they are undone. But they can always sneak up again with a new mask on.

KQuark : I think the core baggers will always be their, it’s our history but the follows will drop off in that scenario AdLib.

Chernynkaya : Actually, I think our challenge is not so much to defeat the Baggers per se, but to awaken the rest of the country. Same effect, but the fact is the Baggers are small in number. Since they will always be with us, I think the thing to do is to activate more voters.

Emerald1943 : Adlib, I most definitely think the Dems will take back the House…and hold the Senate…and the White House!!! I wouldn’t have said that several days ago. It all hinged on the President’s speech.

AdLib : Who here thinks Dems will take the House back in 2012?

Emerald1943 : Cher, about your comment on the baggers always being with us, I think this time they may have fatally hurt themselves with their over-reaching in the House. They have made their cause very unpopular with the American people and I don’t know if they can recover.

AdLib : Cher – True but their numbers have been dwindling. And I think a defeat in both the WH and I think the House will send them back under the rock they crawled out from.

KQuark : Nite Nite Patsy pleasant dreams.

Emerald1943 : Patsy, have a good night and get some good sleep! See ya’ tomorrow, I hope!

KQuark : The big part is to break up the GOP club which is totally based on identity not policy.

Chernynkaya : AL–I bet it’s make the Daisy ad pale!

Chernynkaya : Dang–another one bites the dust! Nighty night, Patsy!

AdLib : Night Patsy! Have a wonderful weekend!

KQuark : True Cher the thing is to identify the baggers for what they are, extremist anarchists.

Emerald1943 : CL, thank you! You’re so kind!’

AdLib : I thought of a campaign ad, showing the America that there would be under a Rick Perry and the Baggers. I think it would be devastating if it got a lot of airplay.

PatsyT : I am turning in … Good Night to you all …

Chernynkaya : Night CL!

Chernynkaya : AL–the Baggers have always been with us, and always will be, in some form. But they will dwindle in power, I am sure. The winner in 2016 will likely be a moderate of whatever Party.

Emerald1943 : CL, hope you’ll be back tomorrow. There are several things I want to hear about from you. Have a good night, my friend!

choicelady : Em – LOL!!! Sweet dreams, woman after my own heart!!

KQuark : Night CL! Sleep well.

AdLib : Night CL! So glad you were able to join us tonight! Have a great weekend and thank you for all that you do!

PatsyT : Night Choice … have a great weekend

KQuark : That’s why it fits Obama runs against a secessionist.

Chernynkaya : Yes, we are, AL. And the debt ceiling debacle may have been Ft. Sumter. But we abolitionists eventually had to got to war.

choicelady : Well all, despite the fairly early hour, my computer is slowing down, I’m slowing down, so off to bed myself. GOOD conversation all! Have a lovely weekend!

Emerald1943 : CL, I agree with you! I’m old enough now that I can say what the hell I please…and everybody can just get the f*ck over it!

KQuark : Exactly AdLib!

AdLib : Consider, if Perry is the GOP nom and they suffer a big defeat, does that kill the Tea Party and the extremists…or do they think they lost because they weren’t extreme enough and go psycho?

KQuark : Where am I going?

Emerald1943 : Cher, I would only like to see Perry with the nom so that I could watch Obama take him apart in the presidential debate! That would be great fun!!

AdLib : Cher – We are in a Cold Civil War, putting Perry up might be what we need to finally defeat them!

choicelady : Nigh KQ!

choicelady : EVeryone – I finally decided there is no use growing older without getting pushier. If there is something that needs to be heard, I try to make sure it GETS heard. Luckily I don’t have to be a bitch to do that. Usually… : )

Chernynkaya : Perry as the nom would be so sweet. Except it might start Civil War 2. I’m trying to write a post about that but bogged down.

Emerald1943 : KQ, they can have Texas…so secede already!!

PatsyT : Rest well Sabreen…

KQuark :

KQuark : Perry would give Obama an LBJ type of landslide, save for TX obviously.

Sabreen60 : Hi Quark! Nite Quark

Emerald1943 : Sabreen, No I don’t think Perry can win! Sleep well! See ya’ later I hope! :-0

choicelady : Night Sabreen!

Chernynkaya : CL-Awesome–and right up your alley.

AdLib : CL – You sure make things happen!

choicelady : Em – oh then I saw it!

ChrisR266 : Thanks for another illuminating and interesting discussion tonight, friends. may the force be with us all.

AdLib : Sabreen – Nite and no way Perry can win a GE.

choicelady : Cher and Em – I have a friend who is working on the “death to gays’ issue in Uganda, and he was mumbling about needing research, and I said – already done and I can give it to you wrapped up with a bow. So – we have a panel.

Chernynkaya : No he can’t Sabreen–so you can rest easy!

KQuark : Nite Sabreen thanks for showing up.

Emerald1943 : CL, my post is under Gods, Guns and Greed here on PPOV. I did not post at “Talk2Action”

AdLib : CL – That’s fantastic! Well done! This is a global terrorist threat, it needs to be seen as such.

Sabreen60 : I had to leave, came back and spent the last 15 minutes trying to catch up. Now I have to say Good Night. Y’all don’t really think Perry can win the GE do ya???

Emerald1943 : CL, it is supposed to be available now, I thought. But have not been able to download it yet. I’ll keep looking. I’m anxious to read it, especially your contribution.

choicelady : Night AD – sleep well!

choicelady : Em – I’ll look for your post on Talk2Action!

AdLib : Night AD!

KQuark : TC AD

PatsyT : Nighty Night ADONAI…

ChrisR266 : Good sleep, Adonai.

AdLib : CL – That is a revelation for me about Santorum! Not that he has a “prayer” of winning but the hypocrisy is nauseating at this point.

choicelady : Em – I think the e-book won’t be out until later this month. I have no idea why – you’d think that would be the easier form to do, wouldn’t you?

Emerald1943 : CL, WOW! How do you do it??? That’s amazing!

Chernynkaya : Very cool, CL!

choicelady : AdLib – I just wrangled a panel at a UN convening in NYC in October with Leah, her researcher, and maybe one other person to focus on Dominionism here in the US and how it illegally operates overseas.

Chernynkaya : ‘Night, AD.

Emerald1943 : CL, I have been trying to download it for Kindle from Amazon and they don’t have it listed. I haven’t looked today but hope it’s going to available soon. I can’t wait to read it.

Chernynkaya : CL–That is amazing? If he were any real candidate that would be more well-known.

choicelady : Em – wait until he reads Leah’s book – he won’t be happy with the criticism he gets from HER either!

Emerald1943 : Cher, I posted a comment from Talk to Action website on that earlier today.

PatsyT : CL. Wow Not that Santorum has a chance but WOW.

AdLib : CL – It is surprising how widespread discussion of the Dominionists is now! Very encouraging!

ADONAI : Well kids, it’s bed time. all good times must end. Good night folks. Peace be with you.

Emerald1943 : CL, I did not know about that from Santorum. What hypocrisy!

Chernynkaya : Em, I think that was it.

choicelady : Cher – GREAT! Many evangelicals are NOT Domininists, and I will love to read it!

ADONAI : KQ, Pretty much I just love ron Paul and nothing you say can change that!

Chernynkaya : AD–you’re right!

choicelady : Em – Santorum and his wife had a late term abortion (the baby had no brain) and are proud of it while denying it to others. His hypocrisy would NOT stand! She wrote and article about it for Women’s Day of Family Circle – it’s OUT THERE with them saying they did the right thing, but other women would not because they might choose a different method. Un-freaking-beli evable!

ADONAI : Cher, that actually happens now a days!

KQuark : AD isn’t that the same as crazy

Chernynkaya : “could be”

Emerald1943 : Cher, I also found some stuff about the subject today. Seems C. Peter Wagner is not happy about the criticism he’s getting from some of the evangelical groups.

Chernynkaya : AD–well then, that’s like saying if only women cold be men.

AdLib : Perry will win the first primary in IA. He could lose NH but a decent 2nd place showing there brought Hillary back to life. Then Perry wins SC and NV. 3 of the first 4, momentum is on his side well before FL.

Chernynkaya : CL–When next I do the Daily planet (monday) I have an eye-popper for you. It’s from the evangelicals freaked about Dominionism.

ADONAI : Ron Paul’s ideas aren’t crazy(o.k. most of them aren’t crazy). It’s just crazy to think they would work in the current system.

Emerald1943 : CL, I posted some stuff about them earlier today on the Gods, Guns and Greed comments.

AdLib : Real Clear Politics polling average as of today: Perry +11.0

KQuark : Perry will lose NH but bounce back quick in SC. It’s all about FL.

Chernynkaya : All I need to know about Paul he said at the debate: Corporations will self-regulate for the good because of the free market. If you don;t understand how silly that is, no use arguing.

Emerald1943 : Adlib, that was the most ridiculous statement of the night! Ron Paul is a dimwit for sure! Ain’t no chain-link fence gonna’ keep me in! I’ll show ’em! LOL

choicelady : AdLib – if Perry wins, the numbers of us who will out him on his religious extremism will be huge. The term Dominionism is getting very hot right now, and it’s easy to explain – he wants to take over the Constitution and make this a born-again Christian only country. VEry few people will like that – and he telegraphs that every time he speaks.

ADONAI : New Hampshire could stop Perry. A HUGE loss in New Hampshire

AdLib : Ron Paul does think that border fences may end up locking Americas into the US. Er…

KQuark : Screw that Ayn Rand freak.

ADONAI : Cher, It wouldn’t matter. He’s gold in my eyes.

Emerald1943 : Adlib, Rick Santorum…now that’s a piece of work for you! He has 7 kids…obviously hasn’t found out what causes it!

Chernynkaya : AL–“Zactly!

choicelady : Em – that is the problem with her – we’d have to plan on a TWO year term if Sarah won.

Chernynkaya : AD, I don’t have the energy or the fast fingers to tell you why Paul is a turd.

KQuark : McG was a real hero and a great American.

PatsyT : Ron Paul reminds me of Gollom

AdLib : My proposition is that, if “Ponzi” doesn’t sink Perry now, what could?

ADONAI : RON PAUL!!!

AdLib : New Maryland GOP Poll Rick Perry 25.8 percent Mitt Romney 21.2 percent Ron Paul 16.8 percent Michele Bachmann 12.5 percent Sarah Palin 7.2 percent Herman Cain 5 percent Other/Write-Ins 4.4 percent Newt Gingrich 2.3 percent Jon Huntsman 2.2 percent Rick Santorum 1.4 percent

Emerald1943 : Cher, Sarah’s not going to give up that big paycheck to actually do a JOB!!

KQuark : Two big things Perry has going for him besides the base, the schedule and the Tea Party gang may be so arrogant they think a “true conservative” can win.

ADONAI : HA! Fux

Chernynkaya : CL–She cares only about Sarah. As long as she works for Fux, she’s not running.

choicelady : KQ – I think you’re right about that. I say this is their “McGovern year” even though I was paid staff for McG and really liked him. Still do. But they have gone off the wall by giving over to the Dominionists.

ADONAI : Chris: maybe. I just don’t see it. But you have me interested.

Emerald1943 : CL, yes she is! I’ve been expecting Sister Sarah to swoop in on her broom any minute to save the day!

Chernynkaya : I think the right is too angry for Mitt. I mean, he doesn’t channel their mood like Perry does.

AdLib : KQ – Yes, I am on the record for Perry.

ChrisR266 : Adonai: I could sell it, damn it! So could Howard Dean.

choicelady : Em – that is true. Sorry Cher – that appears to be one role she has assumed. The other may be to come in at the last moment if there is a deadlock and ‘save the GOP’ by being their Dark Horse candidate. Don’t count her down and out yet. She’s a manipulative little bitch.

AdLib : That is, Fundies and Baggers won’t be enthusiastic about voting for Romney, for being a phony and a Mormon.

ADONAI : Chris: It is. I agree. It just doesn’t sell.

KQuark : AdLib are you still on record for Perry?

KQuark : I hear ya CL but hopefully the GOP are making the same mistake Dems did in the 60’s and 70’s and going so far from the mainstream that the pendulum will swing back.

Chernynkaya : So far, only KQ and I have declared. Anyone else guess who gets the nom?

AdLib : I think Romney has a good chance but Perry has the energy behind him. Some Repubs may prefer Romney but Baggers LOVE Perry and that means GOTV will be good to Perry. Will it be enough? I don’t know but I do know that the Fundamentalist Christians and Baggers will be holding their noses and not enthusiastic about voting for him in the GE.

Emerald1943 : CL, no that was Michelle’s UGLY shoes, wasn’t it?

ADONAI : Dang it

Emerald1943 : Cher, the devil made me do it!

choicelady : AD – sorry – we actually DID mention her shoes earlier. Sorry.

ChrisR266 : Ok, Adonai: Had your fun? It’s not the nice, it’s the motive! I’m all for the motive. I ascribe to the views I have because I truly believe that it is in all of our best interest to act in all our best interests. That’s one hell of a great and noble message.

Emerald1943 : Cher, but she’s being billed as a “king maker”…yuck! Enough to make me puke!

PatsyT : ADONAI, we are making progress it’s after nine coast time and this is first mention of the night

Chernynkaya : Em, you little imp!

choicelady : KQ – that honestly is one thing that amazes me. The GOP lie, distort, put in the fix – and have not a shred of remorse. How did it get to that? Well, should not be surprised. My mother brought an ethics charge against her superintendent of schools, a good Christian, who not only lied about his actions but turned around and called her a “known leftist”. That was 1960. No scruples then. No scruples now. I guess it’s true – if you’re born again, you can do anything you want.

Chernynkaya : Sarak ain’t running.

Emerald1943 : Adonai, I wondered if anyone would pick up on that! LMAO

KQuark : She’s out because she does not have the appropriate gear like someone said earlier

ADONAI : NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh we almost made it without mentioning her

Chernynkaya : I wish it were Perry. I think so.

Emerald1943 : Adlib, wait a sec….we forgot to ask Sister Sarah!!

PatsyT : Kinda Romney

Emerald1943 : Adlib, eventually Romney wins the nom.

KQuark : I’m honest split now say 51% Romney.

ADONAI : Romney

Chernynkaya : CL–:lol: But they always will reload because it WORKS for their base.

AdLib : So, quick poll, Perry or Romney wins the nom?

ADONAI : Vote Democrat! We’re nice! Hmmm….. Nope. doesn’t pop enough. can’t sell this. Do you wanna govern or host a Scout meeting?

Emerald1943 : CL and Cher, there is a difference in being a little over weight and being obese! Christie has not missed a hi-caloric meal in many, many years. He IS OBESE!

choicelady : Google’s crawling. Look busy.

KQuark : Chis so true it’s soooooo easy to rise up when you have no conscience like so man GOPers lack.

choicelady : Cher – yes, lots of prejudice over fat. Remember how they called CLINTON fat? And he was NOT even when he had a few pounds on him. We don’t like that in a president.

Emerald1943 : Adonai, Rover worked on that little project for several years to get BushII into the White House.

KQuark : Yup that’s why Bush calls Rove “turdblossom” The rest is obvious.

ChrisR266 : I think what’s more telling, is something my colleague and good old friend said to me today. She was so happy to see Obama back in fighting form last night. And yet she was bemoaning the fact that Democrats are so “nice,” not agressive, seemingly not angry about anything, willing to compromise… I stopped her and said, reminding her: ah, but that’s why they’re Democrats, yes? She said “damn,” and laughed long and hard. Maybe it’s about time we started embracing it and selling it hardc.

AdLib : CL –

Emerald1943 : CL, LMAO!!! That’s good!

ADONAI : Bush’s entire image was created by Karl Rove and sold to the media in soundbites.

choicelady : Em – Perry would weep NOT for making a fool of himself by shooting himself in the foot but for the damage to his $2000 snakeskin boots! It could be said of Perry: every now and then people shoot themselves in the foot. Only Perry goes back and reloads.

Emerald1943 : KQ, yes. All the talking heads have said Romney is a much better debater now than four years ago.

AdLib : KQ – I agree, the MSM wanted to create that meme of the regular guy (son of a president and millionaire!) from TX against the wooden VP. Yeah, it’s time for a change with Georgie! Okay, he’s not so bright and doesn’t know the name of the leader in Pakistan but why would that ever matter?

Chernynkaya : yes, the primary. Did I say the general?! DAMN! OOOOPS.

KQuark : Yup that’s why Romney is dangerous he does not have emotions.

Chernynkaya : CL–well, there is a lot pf prejudice still against fat.

ADONAI : But people shouldn’t spend all their time with the like minded. Then everyone’s wrong.

Emerald1943 : Chris, I think you’re right. The Prez could get Perry to shoot himself in the foot pretty quickly! That would be fun to watch.

choicelady : Chris – that is exactly what Obama did with McCain. He let him erupt (remember ‘”THAT one”?)

KQuark : Put it this way the MSM patronized Bush and worse took him at his word.

Chernynkaya : KQ–exactly. The internet, and people are now living among like-minded folks more and more. I’ll find that link somewhere.

choicelady : AdLib – LOL!!! That puts animal lovers out of his camp!

ChrisR266 : Cher: You know, I agree about the primaries. But I think Any smart opponent (like the President) would spend the first debate egging Christie on. He’d blow his stack in front of the nation, and it’d be all over. This is an easy one, I could accomplish it in three minutes.

AdLib : Cher – You mean you want Perry to win the primary?

KQuark : You have to remember what Bush was sell in 2000 and it was allot like what Obama sold in 2008 only Obama is sincere about it.

Emerald1943 : CL, I agree Perry is a nasty man. He has a really mean look in his eyes sometimes.

ADONAI : HA!

AdLib : Perry is a guy you’d sit down and torture a squirrel with.

choicelady : Cher – even with the obesity crisis, this nation will NOT elect a fat guy.

Chernynkaya : AL–I think you’re right. But I want him to win the general!

choicelady : AdLib – I absolutely get that lack of Bushian charm. Perry is mad, mean, and snide. He is NOT a cute guy even Molly Ivins would like (she did like Bush). Perry’s not a guy you want to sit down and have a beer with. He’s nasty.

KQuark : AdLib Bush’s charm was all fabricated by the right and MSM.

AdLib : CL – Cool, we’ve got both Kasich and Christie attacking police? Love it! Looking forward to Gov elections in their states.

Chernynkaya : Chris–I’m just talking about the primaries generally. But I do think Christie would have a good shot in the general election. I remember laughing at Dubya too.

ChrisR266 : Really, let’s be honest: no one is going to vote for another Texan after getting beaten up twice by GWB.

ADONAI : Perry also doesn’t have a rich, powerful, influential political family behind him.

KQuark : Cher agreed and the internet being what it is let’s you join with millions of other people living in denial on many subjects.

choicelady : Chris – I agree. I sooooooo want the GOP to go to Perry because he’s so AWFUL! He will have his die-hard followers, but I he has NOT substance! What he believes is so off the wall, and he just gutted the Catholic vote because of his deliberate inclusion of Hagee and other fundies who hate Catholics and make no bones about it.

Emerald1943 : KQ, his accent is all wrong. Christie doesn’t have the Bush fake drawl!

AdLib : Perry doesn’t have…painful as it is to say…the “charm” Bush had for indies. I actually am pleased that he has that Texan overconfidence and obliviousness that some there have. They think that because Repubs in TX cheer his stupidity, everyone else in America will. SO, stupidity is put proudly and smugly on display. But without the “charm” to help the emotional voters overlook the stupidity, Perry won’t have Bush’s luck in getting voters over it.

KQuark : Chistie would wear thin on the Southern GOP base real quick with his Jersey bluntness that they love with Texans.

ADONAI : Well,i gotta admit, now a days applauding executions isn’t much different than applauding war.

ChrisR266 : Choice and AdLib: Kasich did it, too, in 2008. Surfaced this year. Too late.

Emerald1943 : Cher, that applause for the executions was appalling! How horrible! 243 deaths and they clap their hands???

ChrisR266 : Cher: I don’t doubt Perry’s popularity or appeal. But I do doubt that most Americans want that crap from a President.

choicelady : AdLib – no it WAS Christie. Bet Kasich did it, too! But I remember its being Christie very vividly.

choicelady : Am – what? You don’t BELIEVE that?

Chernynkaya : Choice, I think that there are plenty of people to whom cognitive dissonance is a way of life. Christie is a tough talking, plain speaking SOB and plenty of people love that shit. Really. I think we make an error when we try to think as they do–we can’t, really. Who would have thought that Perry would be popular? Or that executions would garner such applause?

Emerald1943 : Adlib, yep that was Kasich, not Christie.

ChrisR266 : AdLib: I agree. The Threatening hate is music to beat off by to them. But it is not the tune the general electorate will buy, all the more so now. It is likely to make voters scared as shit.

PatsyT : It tastes hilarious !

Emerald1943 : Adonai, I’m actually laughing out loud!

AdLib : CL – Are you thinking of Kasich on the badmouthing of the cop?

choicelady : AdLib – Yup -Perry is that macho guy. Too bad he has that thin Bush-y voice though. Kinda takes the macho out of some of his blowhard.

Emerald1943 : cl, we do??? LMAO

ADONAI : So 2 cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and asks, “does this taste funny?”

choicelady : AD – we at the Planet strive not to be trite by mentioning things such as Hitler, Stalin, Nazis, etc. Not even when the analogy is incredibly delicious. We rise above all that…

AdLib : CL and Chris – I do agree that the Baggers wanted a man as their first choice. They are bigots against all who aren’t white males. Add to that though, Bachmann was not a strong candidate and not threatening enough for them. They do want a bully and a hater and threatening hate from a Texan man trumps everything else.

Emerald1943 : Adonai, I think it was on last week!

ADONAI : I think FOX already did that one!

ChrisR266 : Nazis! Hitler! Feel better now, Adonai?

Emerald1943 : Adonai, OK…I can handle that! NAZIS and HITLER are good, libruls bad! Fox News Special at 11PM

choicelady : Cher – there is such a damning video of Christie who violated some traffic law, got pulled over, then went to a meeting where he berated the highway patrol office calling him stupid – for enforcing the law. It’s just vile and will haunt him. The Law & Order dude HATES the Law!

ChrisR266 : Christie? Seriously? Not. They could never control him. That scuttles his appeal right away. You can believe that Rove is NOT courting him.

Chernynkaya : Patsy–not a repeat but I’ve seen that! Wowza.

Emerald1943 : CL, if I can be judgmental about Michelle’s shoes, I can sure be critical of his fat ass! What a disgusting blob who has obviously never missed an extra-large pizza!

ADONAI : Em, Well I only brought his name up cause I realized w had been talking for almost 2 hours and no tone person had mentioned Hitler or the Nazis yet. That’s unusual in online discussions.

PatsyT : On Christie … and Koch Is this a repeat? «link»

choicelady : AdLib – that’s the point about Michelle – she was and always will be a place holder til the MAN shows up.

ChrisR266 : AdLib: Don’t think for one minute that the GOPTEA would ever let a woman be their nominee. Not Bachman, let alone whore Palin. They wouldn’t even go to that length to win the nomination.

Emerald1943 : Adonai, awww c’mon…why would Hitler love it? You can’t just throw that out and not expect a follow-up!!

Chernynkaya : Also, this country is definitely in the mood for a bully.

ADONAI : Zing!

choicelady : Em – I suppose we should not be judgmental about his weight, but honestly – he’s piggy!

Chernynkaya : CL–I agree about Christie to a point. He sounds terrific though–he scares me most of all. Plus, America is much fatter now–they could relate.

AdLib : CL – I don’t know that it’s a sexist thing. Look at Ron Paul, he’s more ignored than she is. It’s just that she was too weak as a GE candidate but was a vehicle for the Baggers…until their cowboy came!

Emerald1943 : CL, I agree about Christie! He is disgusting to look at! I was worried about that helicopter being able to get off the ground with his fat ass in it!

ADONAI : Em, Hmmm…. wasn’t really expecting a follow up question. Uh, the ambiance?

choicelady : Em – that’s for sure. But at least they’re not the tart shoes SARAH wears.

ChrisR266 : AdLib: It’s excellent. Shows you some interesting things about MSM agenda setting that are relevant today.

choicelady : AdLib – Christie is too physically unattractive and a bully to boot. You can be the latter only if you have REALLY good hair and a buff physique.

ADONAI : And she stares straight ahead with that creepy smile no matter what is going on around her.

Emerald1943 : Adonai, why would Hitler loved VP tonight?

Emerald1943 : CL, besides she wears really UGLY shoes! LMAO

ADONAI : You know who would have loved tonight’s Vox Populi? Hitler

Chernynkaya : Wha huppen to Michelle is Perry.

AdLib : And they STILL keep mumbling “Christie”.

choicelady : AdLib – she’s a woman. Second class citizen. What did you THINK was going to happen to her? She’s fit for cheerleading, not for leading.

AdLib : Chris – No I haven’t seen it and I really enjoy docs. Will check it out!

Chernynkaya : AL–right you are! This whole media manipulation is painfully obvious–to us.

ADONAI : Everything was filler til Perry jumped all the way in.

Emerald1943 : Adlib, she has completely deflated! The wind is completely gone from her sails. She almost looks pitiful!

ChrisR266 : Kes: We’ll be in Cleveland for the game on Sunday. I’ll wave at you!

choicelady : kes – sleep well! Have a good day tomorrow. Young nurses will be better for knowing you!

AdLib : And poor Michele Bachmann, wa-happun?

ChrisR266 : AdLib: This game is old, but consistent. Have you ever seen the documentary “Spin?”

Emerald1943 : Kes and KT…both of you, have a great night! Get some good sleep! We love you both!

ADONAI : Al, The media is high school.

Chernynkaya : Night KT!

PatsyT : Nighty Night KT

Chernynkaya : Oh dear kes–sleep well!

ChrisR266 : KT: good to read you. Enjoy the weekend, and be well.

PatsyT : Nighty Night Kes..

Chernynkaya : I need a Vox Pop like that cell phine for old people–«link» 0.gstatic.com/im ages?q=tbn:ANd9G cQGd-pN7waT1X1k3 UbffBDv4n6uyTuaU HTX1i9N59H5xPbCN tUEYw

AdLib : Night KT and Kes! Have a great weekend!

Emerald1943 : Kes, be sure to show ’em where to put that rectal thermometer!

PatsyT : Ahhh but they buy results via diabold and with their unlimited campaign cash they make seem like it is posibly for people to think that way

ADONAI : nite kes!

KQuark : Nite KT

kesmarn : G’night KT!

choicelady : KT – good movies, sweet dreams!

ChrisR266 : Huntsman’s real problem with the base is that he answered a call and served this President. I don’t know they’ll forgive him for that.

ADONAI : Peace KT

Emerald1943 : KT, Don’t go! We love it when you’re here!

kesmarn : Dear friends, have to sign off. Short sleep last night and back to showing the student nurses what end is up tomorrow. Have a wonderful weekend.

AdLib : There’s a game being played by the MSM. Ron Paul who comes in 2nd in Ames and above most others nationally is ignored. Huntsman who is at the very bottom, lower than ignored Herman Cain, gets a ton of MSM attention. This is manipulation, trying to hold him up to push the impression that the GOP isn’t as extremist as it is. But his only getting 1% of the vote says it all.

choicelady : Chris – now I’d not thought of that. Wow – I might not have to move to Canada after all!

ADONAI : Em, that was kinda silly but he does have existing relationships with Chinese leadership. And speaking the native tongue could help. Italians love it. The French hate it. Of course the French hate us anyways.

KillgoreTrout : Good night folks. Time to let Hollywood take me out of the real world for a few hours.

Emerald1943 : Chris, from your lips to God’s ears…or from your fingers!!

choicelady : Cher – you are younger than I!!!

choicelady : kes – thank you, but my mind and fingers are giving out!

ChrisR266 : Choice: If they go down in 2012, there will be no GOP in 2016. Grip that reality. They’re done, and they know it. That’s in much part why we’re seeing the desperado crap we’re seeing now.

Chernynkaya : CL–Agreed. I’m too old!

choicelady : AdLib – I honestly do not see Huntsman as the old GOP – more a less nasty Newt. He’s pretty extreme.

Emerald1943 : CL, I think you’re doing great!

KQuark : Huntsman can’t win now AdLib I give that too you but I don’t think the GOP can sustain there BS too long.

Emerald1943 : Adonai, Huntsman thinks he can solve the problems by talking in Chinese to the Chinese. It’s going to take more than that! I was not impressed.

kesmarn : c’lady you do just fine in Vox!

choicelady : Cher – I can’t keep up! Vox Populi is for younger and more flexible fingers!

KillgoreTrout : Hunstman is, after all, a member of the haves and the have nots will see that soon enough.

KQuark : Shite I’m getting my years wrong, right Cher.

ADONAI : Huntsman would slow this economy down. Which we don’t need. But I don’t think he’d utterly destroy it.i think he could actually be brought around on corporate tax rates. call me crazy.

AdLib : How could Huntsman ever win the primary? He is the anti-bagger. He belongs to a type of Repub that has long left the GOP, he has no constituency there.

Emerald1943 : Kes, good point. But I think he’s a little sneaky! I really don’t trust him…just a little too smooth.

ChrisR266 : Em: I know you’re right, and I should probably stop dreaming that these arse*holes are going to give themselves a fighting chance, LOL>

Chernynkaya : Cl–I’m having a hard time reading closely–my mistake. It’s the “lightening round!”

choicelady : KQ – do you mean Huntsman is prepping for 2016? That is the race about which I am seriously worried. I think they will send us a Dominonist with a reasonable voice who will completely soft pedal his religious zealotry and sound rational. That scares me.

Emerald1943 : Chris, that’s because you are a most sane and sensible person! You see Huntsman that way because he talks on your level. But he’s not for the red-meat repub!

KQuark : Nice one Kes.

ChrisR266 : Or maybe more appropriate, in primaries, they vote their fantasies. More the worse for them.

kesmarn : KQ and Em — I hear you. I know I’d never vote for Huntsman. But in the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king, if you know what I mean.

choicelady : Cher – thank GOD! I hoped you were! I agree – since I once had a bellyful of relatives who til they died thought Nixon was God and Reagan even better. But they loved their SS and Medicare! My uncle was a doctor, too.

AdLib : Baggers vote with their gut and think with their nose.

ADONAI : Indeed Em

KQuark : Hunstman is running for 2012 folks and this campaign if Perry is the nominee and goes down in flames in the GE really helps him redefine the GOP.

ADONAI : choice, I noticed that after Paul Ryan revealed his plan, attendance at Tea Party rallies nosedived. It had already been trailing off but it just plummeted after that.

KillgoreTrout : Romney will be hard pressed to win the fundie vote in the primaries.

ChrisR266 : Cher: I agree. In primaries they vote their gut. This will be interesting.

Emerald1943 : Adonai I agree with you about Huntsman. He’s a slick customer, maybe too slick for the dumbf*ck crowd1

Chernynkaya : To me, it all boils down to why people vote in primaries. Do they vote on policy or so they vote their gut. I think it’s the latter.

choicelady : Ad – yes – and I think some of today’s Town Hall shouters were once Baggers. A woman here (purely anecdotal) came to a TP rally, was told they wanted to destroy the ‘socialism’ of Medicare and SS, and she said, “Oh – I WANT those programs!” And she left. She was interviewed by the Sac Bee. True story.

KQuark : He is Kes but he’s also a phoney. The says he agrees with CC and does not want to do anything about it. Not to mention him and his family are one of the biggest polluters on the planet.

ChrisR266 : Kes: yes, he does. and Em, I know he’s really a sheep in wolves’ clothing. But, at this stage of the primary game, who looks like they’re above the fray? He’s staying out of the firing line.

ADONAI : I hate Huntsman but I love him. he seems sane but he has issues I still just do not agree with at all.

Emerald1943 : Chris, Huntsman looks like the adult, but don’t let him fool you. He’s just as much of an ideologue as the rest. His pro-science stance won’t help him with that crowd.

Chernynkaya : OH! Cl I’m only talking about the primary–sorry!

KQuark : Exactly AD that’s why I think a GOP candidate who looks more moderate is a pls

kesmarn : Huntsman is definitely the sanest, Chris, but I think he polls in single digits!

choicelady : Cher – I do not disagree on the primary, but that is a far cry from the general. There you have the independents who LOVE last night’s speech (one was on the call this afternoon) and mod and liberal but pragmatic Dems. They outnumber the Baggers 5 to 1.

KillgoreTrout : Lets hope their need for sensationalism stays it’s course.

KQuark : sorry 2010

KQuark : KT that’s why I think Romney’s chances are good despite Perry these are not going to be the same GOP primary voters of 2008.

ADONAI : But every time someone mentions SS and republicans, I think about the town halls. How Republican representatives are being shouted down in their own town halls over SS. Just as recently as this last recess. I think moderate Republicans are gonna put up a fight. How much ti will matter remains to be seen.

ChrisR266 : Kes et.al: I don’t think that even Romney will get that final nod. The way things are going, Huntsman is beginning to look like the only adult in that GOP loony bin.

Emerald1943 : KT, we can thank the MSM for that!

KillgoreTrout : The least of the craziest will have the better chance. Moderates are very necessary for the GOPers. It’s the squeaky crazies that get the grease right now.

Chernynkaya : CL–I just really do not think they are able to deal with facts. I know the stone soup story and it’s wonderful. Baggers never understand that story tho.

kesmarn : More and more, I’m beginning to think Romney might get the final nod. IF Perry keeps on saying stupid stuff.

Emerald1943 : Cher, the party is asleep. They are still thinking that they have this HUGE base out there when the numbers are waning.

KQuark : Yup Romney appears moderate and he’s not. Worse he’s really weak unlike Obama and will let his base run all over him.

choicelady : AD – I agree Perry can win the primary. I do NOT think he can win the General. He is just too far out there on things most Americans value and he hates.

ChrisR266 : Adonai: You are correct, I think. Perry cannot win a general, but he can get the GOPTEA base to beat off on the mere prospect of him winning a nomination.

choicelady : AdLib – because they honestly did NOT think the GOP would screw them that way. Now they KNOW, and before they did not. They did not believe the Baggers would vote to kill Medicare. Now they know. Before they did not. Big difference.

Emerald1943 : KQ, I totally agree with you on Romney. He is much more dangerous in the general election.

ADONAI : And that’s the big thing. Perry CAN win this nomination. The Repub base eats this shit up. The rest of the country very much does not.

Chernynkaya : Em, well. that is a good pint–they are weaker now, but I’m not sure the Party knows that.

KQuark : Emerald that’s why I think Romney has a better chance than people think.

AdLib : Unemployed Republicans who rely on unemployment checks voted overwhelmingly to elect Republicans who wanted to take their payments away and called them lazy people who were no good. Why would anything change when it comes to SS?

choicelady : Cher – I really don’t think so. Seniors COUNT on Social Security and know if young people pull out, the money DOES fail. It’s not a Ponzi scheme. It’s stone soup. (I will tell the story another day…)

Emerald1943 : Cher, true…but the baggers are not as strong as they were even two years ago.

kesmarn : Apparently, c’lady, Perry walked over to Paul’s podium, grabbed him by the arm and was shaking his finger in Paul’s face. Speculation rampant on what was said…

Chernynkaya : Em, but he didn’t want them to be chosen to run. He was right but the Baggers won and nominated them.

ADONAI : But since most Independent seniors vote center right on immigration, it won;t help him at all in the general.

ChrisR266 : Choice: yep, or the skunks that have taken up in our neighborhood. I hope it was your cat!

KQuark : In fact like usual it made Romney look like a faker and Perry just expressing what the GOP is all about these days.

Emerald1943 : Cher, Rove still has the strength of the Bush crowd behind him, along with his Crossroads fundraising arm. He has tons of money to spend against Perry. Just wait…he’s going to lower the boom on him. Perry has entirely too much dirty laundry.

Chernynkaya : AD–see that’s it! They would rather punish the groups they don’t like than to do what is good for themselves.

choicelady : kes – did not see that? What happened with Paul and Perry?

KQuark : I’ll say one thing AdLib the MSM and progressive media did Perry a huge favor after the debate by saying what Romney and Perry would do to SS is very much the same.

ADONAI : Chris: Perry can’t win a general election. I agree. But he can definitely win his primary

kesmarn : What was the story with Perry and Ron Paul during the commercial break?

choicelady : AD – Senors aren’t going to pick that over their SS checks.

Emerald1943 : Cher, well neither of them won!

AdLib : AD – Nailed it on the stock market, it is a massive fraud that everyone feels obligated to participate in anyway because…what else is there to possibly increase their retirement savings. There does need to be alternatives to it.

ChrisR266 : I hope Rove rips Perry a new orifce. The implosion continues.

ADONAI : If enough Republican seniors chose getting rid of Mexicans over their SS check, Perry wins it walking away.

choicelady : Chris – your dogs started to bark, my cat started to meow – was your dog barking at my cat?

Chernynkaya : Em, Rove didn’t want Sharron Angle or The witch O’Donnel either. For all the good that did. He hasn’t the power he once had.

KillgoreTrout : chris, I think you may be right. Obama took the wind out of their sails last night. And they HAVE to know it.

ChrisR266 : Adonai: remember, who were applauding? None of us were in that library.

Emerald1943 : Chris, I think you’re correct on that one!

choicelady : AdLib – even younger people get that Social Security is solvent and can be strengthened easily. If Perry morphs into privatization in THIS MARKET he is a sitting duck for the dude who put up a sign after the 2008 crash: “My 401K is now a 201K!”

ChrisR266 : KT: They do nothing, they’re gone. They know it. They’re probably starting to panic.

kesmarn : Truly, Chris.

PatsyT : GOP, The Party that Loves Death!

ADONAI : Don;t mess with Texas!!!!!! Seriously. We’ll fucking kill you.

Emerald1943 : Everybody, remember what Karl Rove did to McCain in 2000 when he ran against Bush in South Carolina? Rove hates Perry and will make hash of him before it’s all over.

KillgoreTrout : The death penalty applause was downright Roman in nature.

ChrisR266 : Kes: OMG, really? LOL.

KQuark : Agreed Patsy and Perry saying he has no problem sleeping at night is worse

Chernynkaya : AD–that’s a great point about the applause.

AdLib : KQ – I see such an easy pivot on this from Ponzi to privatization. Then he has the best of both worlds, free marketers and government hating Baggers. I’ll take any bets that Perry will massage this into privatization in the next debate.

choicelady : AD – you are entirely correct about the stock market!

ChrisR266 : Adonai: It won’t suddenly, I agree. The supreme court has to change for its mind to change on this issue.

PatsyT : That death penalty applause was unreal!

choicelady : AdLib – I think that is going to hurt him a LOT. So will the idea that YOU don’t have a personal account which is belied by the memos sent every couple of years telling you what your account HAD IN IT.

Chernynkaya : AL–it’ll keep him in the lead. As I said, never misunderestimate the need of the Baggers to feel right. They are incapable of changing their minds or of having their opinions challenges, even with SS. And Perry will just say he wants to “save” ss, and they’ll buy it.

ADONAI : Florida is so fucked up it’s hard to say what will hurt or help you there. But they do have a high senior population.

Emerald1943 : Adlib, it will depend on the attacks by Karl Rove and his money machine. He despises Perry and will smear him all over the map. I think it could cost Perry the nom.

KQuark : X2 AD on McGrudder

ADONAI : First of all, the stock market is a ponzi scheme. But good luck getting anyone to admit that. And yes it will help him in his primary. did you hear the applause for the death penalty?

Emerald1943 : Cher, I’ve noticed a lot of criticism of DKOS too.

KQuark : I still think it hurts him in states like FL, OH and PA Adlib

KillgoreTrout : Think, if this jobs bill is successfully opposed by the GOPers, things will continue to get worse, and not just for dems. Hunger is a great motivator.

ADONAI : Uncle ruckus is one of the greatest characters ever created. Aaron Mcgruder cannot receive enough awards in my opinion. talk about a man with a social conscious and a great sense of humor.

AdLib : NEXT TOPIC: RICK PERRY SAID IN THE DEBATE FOR ALL TO HEAR THAT SOCIAL SECURITY IS A “PONZI SCHEME”. GRANTED THIS IS DAMAGING IN THE GENERAL ELECTION BUT DO YOU THINK IT WILL COST HIM THE GOP NOM, KEEP HIM WHERE HE IS OR IMPROVE HIS CHANCES?

kesmarn : Believe me. I was “helping” a student nurse who said she “has a delicate stomach…” (Time to switch majors.)

Emerald1943 : Kes, I worked primarily in the ER in a big city hospital…we saw our share of that!

Chernynkaya : CL–yes–I’ve noticed that too. And most ppl are starting to LAUGH at HP/AOL. at least the journos I follow.

PatsyT : Kes, I’ll take your word on that!

Emerald1943 : Kes, I feel your pain having done what you do for many years!

kesmarn : Truth.

ADONAI : Indeed choice. Corporate laws in this country must change fro finance reform to have a chance.

KillgoreTrout : I find that hard to believe!

kesmarn : Em I got distracted listening to Uncle Ruckus explain how the white man’s sh*t don’t smell. After working last night I can vouch for the contrary.

Emerald1943 : KT, I’m well past modesty!

KQuark : Exactly AdLib that’s where the danger comes from.

KillgoreTrout : Em, modesty may forbid…

Emerald1943 : KT< I’m not sure, we’ll have to ask Kes!

AdLib : KQ – It is alarming to see self-hating people fighting so hard to empower the enemies of those that are like them. Disgusting, really.

PatsyT : Sounds painful

ADONAI : Chris: Even if they didn’t, I don’t see how campaign finance reform is suddenly gonna change the system. How would it be set up? It’s awful expensive to run for President. where will the money come from? Whatever price tag you put on being President, someone with personal interests will pay it. People have to change. Our corporate structure has to change. Then maybe finance reform will matter.

KQuark : If you look all the best presidents were lawyers or the equivalent save for one general.

ChrisR266 : oops! barking dog. Be back in a min.

KillgoreTrout : A bagger in your browser? I think that would call for a medical procedure!

Emerald1943 : Adlib, a bagger in my browser…sounds terrible!! LMAO

Chernynkaya : Oh THAT Uncle Rukus! PERFECT!

choicelady : AD – with Citizens United and the related McComish case (AZ) that totally shot down public financing and gave unlimited power to private and corporate money, the possibilities of campaign finance reform are indeed slim. This SCOTUS is determined to create a massively UNEQUAL society.

Emerald1943 : Patsy, yes…it’s gotta’ be!

KQuark : AdLib there is nothing more dangerous than a person that hates themselves for what they are.

ChrisR266 : KQ: Indeed. Law just gets in their way. They can always claim ignorance, that’s why law education is disadvantageous.

AdLib : Em – Sounds like you’ve got a Bagger in your Browser!

Emerald1943 : Kes, whatever works for him! I hope he stays on it!

PatsyT : Em, RW plot.. perhaps?

kesmarn : That would help, Chris. But I wonder if the Prez isn’t clicking on to ways to campaign that don’t involve heavy spending but are very effective.

ChrisR266 : Adonai: I agree. Lobbyists write that, too.

Chernynkaya : KQ–Oh. Thanks.

Emerald1943 : My browser keeps kicking me off!

KQuark : Chis not until college did I now that non-lawyers could be politicians. I naively thought they needed to all be experts in law.

AdLib : Uncle Ruckus, or as I like to call him, Herman Cain: «link»

choicelady : I’ve been very surprised at the numbers of sites that have arisen recently (last year) not unlike the Planet in tone and temperament, and many seem to be reacting against HP (spit) but in general desire a civil discourse! It’s really heartening to know that what once was ‘the silent majority’ actually seems to be ACTIVE and outspoken!

Chernynkaya : I really hope CL and y’all are right. I want so badly to see the people “vote” via email!

ChrisR266 : Aw, AdLib: don’t be insulting the rodents, now. sheesh!

ADONAI : Campaign finance reform? Go ahead. I promise you it will change little.

ChrisR266 : Nothing will change UNLESS the nation changes how we finance political campaigns.

Chernynkaya : Even Karl Rove is distressed at the Gop.

ADONAI : Chris: Oh yeah. I wasn’t even thinking about that.

KQuark : It’s been like that on Twitter too.

KQuark : Nice Patsy

ChrisR266 : Adonai: because regular old citizens and legislators don’t write the tax code. Lobbyists write the tax codes.

kesmarn : OOps…hit the button — by the time his tour is done, we’re hearing screaming mobs yelling: “Pass this bill!

Chernynkaya : Patsy. YES! kes and I say the same things and it reminds me of those creepy twins.

PatsyT : All over FB the chattter is -Make the Calls and Pass this Bill- !!

choicelady : Cher – I think people will do that. There are huge numbers of groups across the country that are totally psyched about this!

KillgoreTrout : cher, like Abbie Hoffman said, tell your friends and they tell their friends and so on and so on.

KQuark : Dunno he’s a character on Boondocks

AdLib : Chris – Only smart people would re-position themselves to save themselves and the GOP ain’t that. They are on the Titanic, seeing it heading into the iceberg and tying themselves to the railing, all the while knowing they will drown because of it. Will they untie themselves at the last minute out of a sense of self-preservatio n? One would have to think Repubs are at least as smart as rodents but they may be disappointed.

kesmarn : I hope by the time the Prez

KQuark : Exactly CL the tax burden has been rising on the middle class and the lowest in decades on corps.

PatsyT : Twin girls in the hallway? Is that a reference to the Shining ?

ADONAI : Chris: O.K. So that has me thinking, all these arbitrary tax increases and tax cuts are just hurting us cause our tax code is ridiculous and the money isn’t ever going where it should. So how come we just keep doing this and never stop to address exactly how the system is set up?

Chernynkaya : KQ-is Uncle Ruckus like Uncle Remus?

Emerald1943 : CL, Columbus, I think…but I could be wrong.

ChrisR266 : He’s going to be here in Columbus and in Cincinnati–I hope he walks his ass across that I75 Bridge. The Secret Service will freak! It would be great.

choicelady : KQ – your wonderful wife can say all she likes. And then you can share.

Chernynkaya : I just hope and pray everyone writes to Congress to PASS THE BILL NOW. I don’t know that enough will.

choicelady : Em – where in Ohio is he going to be?

KQuark : Cain, Thomas, Steele, They are all Uncle Ruckus to me. My wife has worse names for them. he he he

KillgoreTrout : Exactly Em. To the GOPers, Whitehouse means just that.

Emerald1943 : Chris, I can’t wait until he goes to Ohio next week. That should be really good!

choicelady : Ad – that IS what Obama is trying to do. Most personal taxes are not that wacked, but company ones are and corporate ones are volumes of tiny dodges. So yes – simplification is needed. BUT this all depends on who is doing it because tax simplification for people like Forbes means the rich get lower rates and pay way less while the rest of us get screwed.

ChrisR266 : Em: Yes. Now he’s bringing it. I think the wait is going to be worth it.

Emerald1943 : KT, he’s kinda like Michael Steele…too dumb to know he’s being used!

Chernynkaya : Em–that too!

KillgoreTrout : Cain is just window dressing. With the level of bigotry in the GOP, he can be nothing else.

ChrisR266 : Adonai: That is how I understand it, as well, Husband is an irish citizen, and we hear this often from the relatives.

Emerald1943 : Chris, did you hear him today? He was fired up and ready to go!!

Chernynkaya : Twin girls in the hallway!

KQuark : Oh I know it was all a lie but that’s what the Right Wing does.

Emerald1943 : Cher, LMAO! That would be great! Or maybe the rapture??

choicelady : Everyone – the GOPers will blame Obama for the nova in our skies, for the hurricane, earthquakes, whatever. They are beyond caring if it makes sense. So are theFirebaggers.

ChrisR266 : Actually, last night was a real good deal. Nothing’s going to stick to the President for the next few weeks. He needs to take it to the streets now.

KQuark : I defriended someone on facebook for posting that Obama cost the DJIA 6.7 points a minute for his speech. It was someone I worked with about 10 years ago they obviously bought the Tea Bag snake oil.

ADONAI : Here’s how I’ve heard it explained before,and tell me how far off I am. We pay less in taxes overall than most European countries but we pay a lot of different kinds of taxes and our tax code over the years had just become a jumbled mess. If so, at what point do we have to take a step back and completely overhaul it?

Chernynkaya : AL–totally agree. they cannot stop now. Norquist and whatever other asinine pledges they took. Now, if only they would take a seppuku pledge.

Emerald1943 : Adlib, that was a bunch of crap about the market responding to the speech! Ridiculous!

ChrisR266 : Herman Cain: Mr. one pound of cheese on a pizza Man. Wow.

AdLib : KQ – That was a lie too, the market fell because of Europe and they blame Obama…for what? How did his speech make anything different except possibly better. The MSM propaganda machine never sleeps.

PatsyT : I would put nothing past the GOP

choicelady : KQ – that “three pages or less” is a HOWL! Here is a man running to run the nation, and he’s even freaking lazier than BUSH. I have a friend who got assigned (did not volunteer) to work Reagan’s WH – said Reagan insisted all briefings had to be on ONE sheet of paper. Period.

kesmarn : Cher, there you go again…

ChrisR266 : KQ: That’s crap and we all know it. So do they.

kesmarn : KQ — like the sitch in Greece had nothing to do with the Dow?

Chernynkaya : KQ–I read it was about the Euro.

Emerald1943 : Patsy, a RW plot!

KQuark : Agreed CL in that way we have one of the more progressive tax systes.

ChrisR266 : AdLib: They can’t, I think you are on the right track. This situation they made, and they’re now seeing how horrific it’s going to be for them. 14%! you just can’t make this shit up.

Chernynkaya : KQ-and yes, all jetliners need to have instruction manuals in under 3 pages too!

Emerald1943 : Adonai, the 999 plan from Caine! What a dolt!

PatsyT : I heard the speech on npr station from Pasadena KPCC … San Diego npr Station was down

KQuark : The talking point today of course was Obama speaks and the DJIA falls. ugh

ADONAI : Herman Caine: He doesn’t like to read

choicelady : KQ – I hate VAT taxes. Single payer people better get over how wonnnnderful Canada is with its 17% VAT. The poor pay disproportionate ly for their health care that way.

Chernynkaya : And it was caused by ONE GUY!

AdLib : Chris – I do think the Repubs know they are lemmings following each other off a cliff but I don’t know that they can stop themselves. They know America’s fed up with them doing nothing but harm but they don’t want to be primaried…so they may choose to be Generaled instead.

ChrisR266 : Kes: Ha! That’s it. Explains everything. Now we will have to watch if he starts dozing off…

Emerald1943 : Kes, LMAO…that’s it! And it doesn’t smell up the office like other “substances”!

KQuark : I’m Herman Caine and I don’t like reading. All bills need to be three pages or less.

Chernynkaya : Patsy–interstin g take! Hadn’t considered that!

kesmarn : Maybe the Boehner has discovered Xanax. Discreet. No flask required…

choicelady : AD – Herman Cain better be careful – 999 is just 666 upside down…

PatsyT : Oh yes Cher, that power outage started just before the Presidents speech … how strange

ChrisR266 : Choicedarling: I noticed that too. Chapped lips from dryness. Oh hell, he was sober as a nun!

KQuark : BTW VAT taxes are huge in “progressive” Europe.

choicelady : Adonai – YES. Flat Tax Bad!

Emerald1943 : Chris, no way! I swear he was stoned out of his mind! His face never changed!

KillgoreTrout : I think the prez’s speech last night was so visceral, that even the hillbillies stood up and said YES. Because they may be TPers, but when they see their unemployment running out, the message comes home pretty quickly.

Chernynkaya : AD–yes–flat tax bad.\

ADONAI : Can someone explain Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 plan or whatever it was,is all about?

choicelady : Chris – at one point Boehner was licking his lips. Could not decide if the speech made him nervous or it was past happy hour and he wouldn’t get his free olives…

ChrisR266 : Em: LMAO! So the paleness was nausea? LOL

KQuark : CL flat tax is an awful VAT tax. But lowering income tax on business and closing loopholes would give higher revenue and be more fair.

ChrisR266 : Flat tax bad. Good bumper sticker.

Emerald1943 : Chris, I still think he was stoned! :-0

ADONAI : Im’a go out on a limb and say “flat tax bad”

choicelady : Chris – the drunk google crawler has been and gone. The othe one is back. Above. Don’t look!

AdLib : The flat tax is a fraud, a regressive tax on the 50% of Americans who don’t pay taxes due to poverty and low incomes and a huge tax cut for the wealthy down to 10%. No way, no how!

ChrisR266 : All: I think the chess game Obama has been playing with the GOPTEA came to a beautiful climax last night. I was quite pleased. The crap is all in the lap of Congress now. No Wonder Boehner was pinker than his tie last night.

Emerald1943 : CL, good point about the corporate rate!

Chernynkaya : Patsy! Did you lose power yesterday?

choicelady : Hi Patsy!

ADONAI : Hiyoooo! so true KT

Emerald1943 : Cher, Fat Eddie and Rat Rush are two ends of the same candle. They both appeal to the low-info voter on opposite ends of the spectrum. Eddie is a rabble rouser in his own way.

KillgoreTrout : Ha! Two Ks are better than three!

choicelady : KQ – I am wildly opposed to a flat tax because it eats up lower income LIVING money, but if we lowered the corporate rate AND eliminated loopholes, they’d finally PAY something. I think if they’re gonna be “persons” though, they should pay personal rates. IMHO…

KQuark : Hi Patsy.

KQuark : too many Ks

AdLib : AD – Kay!

ChrisR266 : I hope no one brought that drunk google crawler tonight.

PatsyT : Hi to all!

ADONAI : it was cool til KT and KQ showed up. Then it was just too many Ks.

kesmarn : Em, get google to crawl to your browser and give it a good tingle.

ChrisR266 : Evening, Patsy! Good to read you.

Chernynkaya : CL aside from the disgruntalists who are just cynics no matter what or who, the professional firebaggers have that brand to protect. That’s what they sell, and there is no way they will gove up that market niche, no matter what any Dem does. Fat Ed and Fat Rush are in the same biz.

AdLib : Hey Patsy! Hope you brought beer, we’re running out!

KQuark : I figured you would know best CL

Emerald1943 : Patsy!! Glad to see you!

choicelady : KQ – that’s quite right about the rates v loopholes.

AdLib : Just a quick prop to everyone here. The pace may be fast but what fun to have such a great group here tonight!

ADONAI : HELLO PATSY!

Emerald1943 : My browser did it to me again…just when I had a really good comment written. Damn it!

ChrisR266 : FYI: Hope you all know it’s “all beaches all the time” on HGTV tonight. I’m now drinking heavily.

PatsyT : Hey Kes, I am just trying to read and catch up

ADONAI : Adam Muave can;t hold a candle to Adam Burnt Siena

KQuark : Just like the Heritage Foundation and the GOP fringe use nominal tax rates to lie the neoprogs are doing it as well. Rates are secondary because its the loopholes that matter and a lower tax rate for all business helps the smaller businesses that can’t bye loopholes with lobbyists.

KillgoreTrout : KQ, I don’t think both ends will. Yes, we will have the usual suspects bemoaning the prez’s ideas, but they are jus paid flunkies.

kesmarn : Is PatsyT in the house?

choicelady : AD – I always liked Adam mauve myself…

AdLib : Cher – Yes, Green heads up both PCCC and Bold Progressives.

ADONAI : choice, A progressive who dresses in black and listens to The Cure.

choicelady : Ooops – hit the wrong key. What is an emoprog?

AdLib : AD – Green is a Firebagger whose fraud is called Bold Progressives and PCCC. He is a liar and a thief who pretends to be a Progressive.

ADONAI : Adam red was always my favorite.

Chernynkaya : KQ-Isn’t Adam Greene THE PCCC?

ChrisR266 : AdLib: I agree with you. They sold their souls to the baggers and they’re going to burn in that hell hole. They cannot get out now, because they know the mere appearance of trying to climb out of that hole spells doom in the primaries.

choicelady : OK – another true confession of how out of it I am.

KillgoreTrout : Exactly kes! Bush and his cronies took every issue around the country. Dems have to do the same. Our ideas stand on their own merit and need to be brought, personally to every corner.

kesmarn : Yes, c’lady, if these Medicare fraudsters were compelled to spend — say — 85% of Medicare $$ on patient care, we would see some great changes.

choicelady : Adonai – Adam Green is when you mix Adam blue with Adam yellow.

KQuark : Adam Green is a neoprog people are starting to tune out.

choicelady : Cher – yes, I learned just today how slimy he is. Oh KQ – thanks for the translation! Who ARE all these phony lefties? I STILL think Fifth Columnists!

Chernynkaya : Em–I think he can still win the primary–not the general, of course. At least, I hope so.

ADONAI : What’s an Adam green?

AdLib : Cher – So true, Green and Hamsher are crashing and burning along with many of the Firebaggers. They will only end up looking like stale bread as Obama’s new campaign mode energizes Dems again.

KQuark : I hate to say KT but both ends will oppose anything he does now.

KillgoreTrout : Adonai, I think it is very predictable that whatever Obama plans, no matter how smart and good for the American people, the GOPers will oppose him. They will do anything to see him fail, and have said as much…in public.

choicelady : kes – you NAILED it. Obama already cut an $80BILLION deal with Pharma to sell drugs to Medicare people much cheaper, closed the donut hole, and is working on eliminating the “Advantage” plan where the gov’t pays a private intermediary for you to get Plan B. Stupid, wasteful, GOP add-ons. And yeah – the profits. ALL of that can GO and we’ll never notice save for lower costs and co-pays.

kesmarn : Think of how Dubya campaigned to sell that stupid war.

Chernynkaya : WOW. Somehow, the word “Perry” got a raspberry by my browser! Bwahahahaha!

KQuark : agreed KT

Emerald1943 : KT, they are already campaigning against Obama. I see nothign wrong in his campaigning too.

Chernynkaya : CL-Adam Greene is now widely seen amoung the Left as a slimebag. He has lost all cred and many articles have been written about his hucksterism. He is as relevant as Hamster.

KQuark : Progressive Change Campaign Committee CL who came out with the same message as Adam Green

ADONAI : Perry can win hi primary with that crazy SS talk. But not a general election. Which is why I’m sure the White House is secretly campaigning for Rick Perry.

AdLib : In the end, I do think that the Repubs are so hogtied by the Baggers that they will fold to them. The game right now is searching for that one thing they can hide behind to say that they couldn’t vote for the deal while saying out of the other side of their mouth that they want a jobs deal.

ADONAI : That’s true Cher. You can’t really guess what they’ll do.

KillgoreTrout : Obama is “campaigning” for his plan. Bush would campaign for evey plan the GOPers had. This is exactly what Obama has to do. And yes, it could not possibly look bad in the campaign for re-election.

Emerald1943 : Cher, Perry is toast! He cannot win with his SS rant.

ChrisR266 : All: Here’s the thing. These GOPTEAers think they’re so smart, and they have a chip the size of Lake Erie on their shoulders. For savvy pols, it’s like picking flies off horse hockey.

choicelady : KQ – outside of thinking you meant the CCCP (I’m older, I get confused) I have NO idea what the PCCC is. Help!

KQuark : CL young people want jobs now they could give a shite about the debt

kesmarn : When the CEO of a chain of nursing homes can make $28 million a YEAR, there’s fat to be cut in Medicare and I think the Prez knows how to wield a scalpel.

Chernynkaya : My feeling about the Reeps is that one cannot assume they will do the smart thing. For example:Perry. He doubles down on SS knowing that maybe 90% of the country is against his position. The R’s are the same. They have been legislating against the polls since elected.

KQuark : They are lying like Tea Baggers now

choicelady : Follow up – AdLib. NO I think they will be obstructionist and try to “message” that they are ‘protecting our chidren’s future” by keeping down spending. But interestingly even on CNN the doofus commentator who said that got hooted down by a young commentator I’d never seen before – and left the older conservative twisting in the wind!

ADONAI : I mean, we can say the American people are stupid. That’s fine. They do their best to live up to it. But they’re not THIS stupid. Never have been. Republicans have no choice.

KQuark : CL I am so done with the PCCC

AdLib : Thanks for the DoJ link Bito! Hey…you know what would be a great Planet feature…a weekly column on what our government is doing that’s good!

ChrisR266 : Agreed, KT.

Emerald1943 : KT, then the President went straight to Eric Cantor’s district! GREAT Move!

KQuark : It gives him a good reason to campaign KT without calling it a campaign

ChrisR266 : AdLib: Damn, that’s an excellent question. I think they are caught up in their own myth. I don’t know that they can dig themselves out.

Emerald1943 : Adonai, I agree. They know they’ve got to or they are going to lose their asses in the next election. \

KillgoreTrout : Obama’s master stroke was saying he would go to every corner in the country with this plan. That was a direct notice to the repubs who may have thought he wasn’t serious enough. Made me proud of him.

bito : AdLib I just gave the DoJ press release page. «link»

ADONAI : They have no choice.

choicelady : Cher – I think it was Adam Green the PL who wrote today that Obama is giving corporations tax cuts by decimating Medicare. There are some people for whom thinking is just not a skill.

AdLib : CL – It’s a deal! That would be a fantastic article and a valuable one! No one else I know of has covered it!

Chernynkaya : AL-Nope.

Emerald1943 : adlib, I don’t think they’re going to have any choice!

ChrisR266 : Walsh, Douche. It fits.

KQuark : NO!

KQuark : Cheers kes he is a basketball player after all.

Emerald1943 : CL, I like that! I’ll reveal what I know and the rest, well I’ll research it!

AdLib : FOLLOW UP QUESTION: WILL THE REPUBS END UP AGREEING TO ENOUGH OF OBAMA’S PLAN FOR IT TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

ChrisR266 : Adonai: with my class? It was interesting. They were impressed with the speech because they knew intuitively it wasn’t meant for Congress. I have quite a few indoctrinated young GOPers in there who admitted that we have a masterful orator for President. And they were impressed.

choicelady : AdLib – if you’ll do my graphics, I will reveal what I know! And research what I don’t. So don’t stay up – it’ll take a while!

kesmarn : KQ, I like your phrase “the President pivoted masterfully.”

ADONAI : Well, that Eagles money doesn’t last long. Rocky Mountain way can’t sustain him.

Chernynkaya : You did KQ. And I thought that was a good plan, but as I recall you also thought we would be disappointed. I’m sure not. (Or maybe you meant you thought the PL’s would be, and most of them are even quiet for now.)

bito : KQ, is the main difference in this and the Rcovery Act be the aid to sates?

Emerald1943 : CL, you’re right! I can’t keep up!

Emerald1943 : KT, I’m almost sorry that douche Walsh didn’t attend and do something stupid! It would have shown him in a very, very bad light!

choicelady : Em – whew – a slower discussion would be better!!!!

kesmarn : Em and KT, yes. Walsh made himself look the fool. Deadbeat Dad that he is!

ChrisR266 : Bwaaaahahaha, Choice, darling!

KQuark : Walsh is now suing his wife for court fees WTF!

choicelady : bito – the DOJ is alive and well at the state and federal district levels.

AdLib : CL – I would love it if you could find the time to write an article on what Holder and the DoJ is doing. I feel so uninformed about it and I haven’t seen anything anywhere that explains as much as you just did.

Emerald1943 : Chris, they can read the polls too. They know they’re in trouble and on the wrong side with the American people!

KillgoreTrout : kes, Joe Walsh showed his pettiness and bigotry by not attending last night. He thought he’d diss the prez, but he only dissed himself. What a loser!

ChrisR266 : Kes: good old Joe Wilson was sitting there in the crowd last night. He was in front of the dude with the sign that said drilling equals jobs.

KQuark : To toot my own horn told ya the jobs plan would be between 300-500 bil. The good part was Obama set expectations lower this time

choicelady : Chris – I did not know that Cantor, Boehner, et al. could count UP to 14%…

ADONAI : Chris, what would you say was the theme of the discussion?

choicelady : Hi KQ!

Emerald1943 : CL, we’re going to have to discuss this in a slower forum. I would like to know more as I have been disappointed in what little I’ve heard about DoJ.

KQuark : good to hear Chris

bito : Nope the DoJ is on vacation «link»

choicelady : AL – I don’t think the FBI is investigating yet – the voter fraud is still in the hands of the independent commission and it’s against GOP operatives who falsified documents NOT against voters.

ChrisR266 : Em: I’m sure Boehner did. It was pretty clear before the speech that the 14% approval rating is starting to sink in with Cantor, Boehner and their ilk.

kesmarn : Em, maybe the people who would have been overtly disrespectful were the ones who were rude enough not to attend. That really ticked me off. Joe Walsh & Co.

Emerald1943 : Adlib, I’m confused about Wisconsin…ther e are differing opinions on this.

AdLib : Hey KQ!

KillgoreTrout : Wazz up KQ?

ChrisR266 : 30 college sophomores had to watch that speech last night for my class this morning. It was glorious! We had some damned good discussion about politics and classical rhetoric this morning.

choicelady : Em – if you think he helps the Bush people because cases that started under Bush are argued as Bush entered them, that is ALWAYS true. I asked our fantastic US Attorney about that, and it just is how it is. What Holder did was go on through the appeal on things such as torture – got negative rulings, and then DID NOT APPEAL the rulings. That means everything Bush entered was killed. DOA. End of the Bush Doctrine. They have done that over and over – the courts have killed the Bush pleadings, and there they lie. It’s freaking brilliant. Bush’s own policies shot down.

ADONAI : Guten tag KQ!

kesmarn : Hey, KQ. ‘Sup?

Emerald1943 : KQ!! Glad you’re here!

AdLib : CL – The FBI is investigating voter fraud in WI? What’s the charge and against which party? That has to run its course before addressing laws violating the right to vote?

Emerald1943 : Chris, at least there was no overt disrespect last night. I was waiting for it. Wonder if Boehner warned them against some kind of outburst.

KQuark : Sup peeps!

KillgoreTrout : Sabreen, the repubs made a very poor showing last night. They obviously didn’t share the presidents concern for middle America.

ChrisR266 : Obama was the GOPTEA’s worst nightmare last night. Masterful performance, well set up over the first two years of his term.

Chernynkaya : BBL!

ADONAI : Republicans can’t applaud or they appear weak in their mind.

Emerald1943 : CL, well that’s good to know. Holder doesn’t appear to be doing much…maybe his guys are! That’s encouraging.

Sabreen60 : The Repubs looked like zombies last night. They were expressionless even when the President mentioned the troops. Are they on drugs?

ChrisR266 : Em: I agree about Boehner. He looked more and more ill as the speech went on, even though it was only 20 minutes. He didn’t like all the shit the President plopped in his lap.

bito : Exactly C’L the DoJ has no jurisdiction right know in WI without a federal complaint.

ADONAI : Obama pretty much tailored that bill to be accepted by Republicans ON THEIR TERMS! It was really a masterful job. And even if they do hold it up he has options to put people to work right now from what I understand. Without Congress. He must have been working on this for awhile.

AdLib : Em – If anything is strongly aiding all that’s wrong in this nation, it’s that we no longer seem to be a nation of laws. Wall Street and banks can rape us, oil companies can pollute and steal our tax money, corporations can buy laws and our elections, presidents can violate the constitution, torture and start wars based on lies…there is no longer a feeling that people who do wrong will pay a price. That is corrosive to a democracy.

choicelady : Em – actually Holder’s entire network of justices, the US Attorneys, are doing HUGE things at the district level. That’s where most of the action is. The numbers of hate crimes prosecutions is amazing – I get updates on convictions 3-4 times per WEEK (it’s awful to know there are that many)and watch the district level prosecutions of mortgage fraud, Medicare fraud, banking irregularities, and on and on. Very little of this hits the papers though. LOTS is happening, LITTLE is reported.

Emerald1943 : Chris!! Glad to see you again!

Emerald1943 : Kes, he’s completely useless…done more to help out the Bushies than anybody else in government!

Chernynkaya : bito, did you read the link? It says something interesting about the SCOTUS too.

ChrisR266 : sorry for the lag, had to read to catch up. SB 5 goes up as referendum the first Tuesday in November. Barring an act of the force, SB 5 is going down like concrete shoes in the river.

KillgoreTrout : Boehner can manage to look disrespectful without much bodily movement. When he should have been clapping to the great ideas and messaging of the president, he was stone-faced and motionless. I just wanted to slap him.

Emerald1943 : CL, bito and I were talking about this earlier. Does someone have to take a case up to the Federal courts before DoJ steps in?

bito : “to review laws before they are implemented in covered jurisdictions.” That is exactly my point. WI is not a “covered jurisdiction.”

Chernynkaya : KT-not Baggers–who are in effect the Repub Party now.

kesmarn : AdLib and Em, I must admit, I hadn’t given much thought to E. Holder until you raise the issue. Then I thought: “Yeah…where HAS that guy been…?”

choicelady : AdLib – there IS an investigation going on in WI about voter fraud. First it will get vetted by the independent commission, but they have to do it in order to turn it over. The DOJ does not just go sailing in – save for drug cases – no matter WHAT you see on Law & Order! I work with the feds – they have to have a burning issue and evidence. But if it’s there, the DOJ will take it.

Emerald1943 : KT, Boehner looked absolutely sick last night…or just stoned! His facial expression never changed during the entire speech.

Chernynkaya : OK then. I can read for a sec.

ADONAI : Holder has been busy and tied up in court. Just not for the right things.

Emerald1943 : Adlib, he’s done absolutely NOTHING! We had this conversation earlier!

ADONAI : faster than P.F. Chang’s thru….well anything

Chernynkaya : There. Sorry!

Chernynkaya : «link»

KillgoreTrout : Hello everybody. Choice, while I admit that most GOPer constituants are fools, There has to be a few folks in charge that realize how foolish their rhetoric has been lately.

AdLib : Hey Chris!

Sabreen60 : Hello Chris!

Chernynkaya : This chat is faster than fat thru a goose!

AdLib : Kes – The recent revelations in WI should be cause for criminal action by the DoJ, there being an official policy to withhold from people that they can get their IDs free is a poll tax. Why won’t the DoJ do it’s damn job?! What has Holder done over the last 3 years?

Chernynkaya : Howdy Chris!

choicelady : Chris! Hi, how are you? The burning question is the date of the referendum on S5. I understand it’s this fall. Is that correct?

kesmarn : Chris! Howdy! How are tomorrow’s leaders doing in college?

Sabreen60 : Ooops. I meant “Hi”

bito : Bad Link Cher.

Chernynkaya : AD- for the win!

ADONAI : Hello chris!

Sabreen60 : Ki KT!!

KillgoreTrout : Como Es Ta Adonai.

choicelady : KT – great to see you, but what makes you think the GOP are NOT fools????

Chernynkaya : Mr. Trout! Good to see you!

kesmarn : Hey, KT!

Emerald1943 : KT!!!! You’re finally here…we can start now!

ChrisR266 : Hi y’all. Hope everyone is well.

ADONAI : Why thank you Em

AdLib : Hey KT!

kesmarn : Things are terrible in WI, with the instructions to the DMV’s to complicate matters for voter IDs.

ADONAI : Hola KT!

Emerald1943 : Adonai, that was REALLY good!

choicelady : Em – I’m pretty sure it’s this November in Ohio.

KillgoreTrout : Good evening folks. I was so glad to see the president throw a pitch that the GOPers would be foolish not to catch.

AdLib : I saw Rachel last night, she did hop back over the critical fence and was very supportive of Obama’s performance and proposals.

Chernynkaya : Speaking of the DOJ and voting rights–this may help explain:«link» hinkprogress.org /justice/2011/07 /09/264314/sixte en-senators-ask- doj-to-investiga te-potentially-i llegal-state-vot er-disenfranchis ement-laws/

kesmarn : I think you’re right, c’lady. But I’d have to check,too.

Emerald1943 : CL, I thought it was sooner than next year too.

choicelady : Ad – she often beats the android.

Emerald1943 : Kes, I was glad to hear that Wisconsin is being called out for their voter suppression attempts.

ADONAI : She probably said. “i;m the most pleasant person on television and bring up issues that may not be covered like they should. Yet I’m 4th billed behind two lunatics and an android.”

choicelady : ADLib -the Ohio referendum is soon. I will check the date, but I think it’s in THIS November.

Chernynkaya : Cl–Ditto on Trumka. And I’ve stopped watching MSNBC, finally.

kesmarn : We’re also trying to defeat the legislation that makes it much harder to vote in Ohio. So much to do. So little time.

choicelady : Em – I don’t recall exactly what she said only that first she definitely “got it” and second that she was delighted with everything he said. Everyone put the onus on the GOP.

AdLib : CL – Oh? I thought the vote was scheduled for Nov. It’s sooner?

Chernynkaya : So the brilliance of the jobs act is not only is it effective–BIGGE R than the Stim–but has so mnay common sense ideas it’ll be hard to argue about. But they will. They will always go against the common wisdom, cuz they have none.

Emerald1943 : Adonai, give it the old college try..

ADONAI : My rachel maddow impersonation is terrible

Emerald1943 : Somebody please tell me exactly what Rachel Maddow said. I missed it.

choicelady : AdLib – Prop. 2 tackles S. 5 in Ohio, and it’s coming soon – a special election.

kesmarn : Double your creepy. Double your fun.

ADONAI : Depends on how creepy.

Emerald1943 : Adlib, that’s too long to wait!

choicelady : Cher – I know labor is with him, but I will never forgive Trumpka, once my hero, for the snot nosed crap he said about the President two weeks ago! The others who are back in his corner – O’Donnell, Maddow, Center for Budget & Policy Priorities – all people who dissed him within the last couple of months. I think they were pressured, did their critique and now are liberated. Heck – even KRUGMAN said nice things!

kesmarn : Creepy is good.

AdLib : EM for Prop 5? Nov 2012, election day.

Chernynkaya : Kes–we’re like those creepy twins in hallways in all the horror movies! I like that!

Emerald1943 : Adlib, when is that vote scheduled?

AdLib : CL – Prop 5 is going down and Dem turnout will be way up!

Emerald1943 : CL, that’s great news! Now, if all those people will turn out and vote…

kesmarn : Cher,we’ve gotta stop saying the same thing!

bito : Agree k’es, the R’s today wanted to object but didn’t know what to object to or their talking points.

choicelady : Em – way more, kes. They needed 400,000 – they got over THREE TIMES that number!

Emerald1943 : CL, he was pale and sweating! A DISGUSTING piece of crap!

Chernynkaya : CL–yes–about stupid. And I think SB 5 is going down! And Labor is so behind the Prez now.

kesmarn : c’lady. I think SB5 is going down. Even Repubs are voting to defeat it.

ADONAI : Republicans are obviously gonna put up a big fuss over UI extensions. What are some good ways Obama can tackle that issue head on?

AdLib : CL – Yes, I think the GOP is freaking out. They absolutely don’t want to pass a jobs bill but the country has clearly turned on them and they do want to get re-elected. They’re freaking!

Emerald1943 : CL, didn’t they get a whole bunch more signatures than they needed in Ohio?

choicelady : kes – Cantor limp and quivering was a sight to behold!

kesmarn : Em, we were both thinking Cantor at the same moment. Jinx, as usual!

choicelady : Cher – the jury is out on stupid? I’d have to agree. But one thing is very clear – if Ohio defeats S 5 (my ex is one of the union leaders and has passed on the message about NOT bringing the loud progressives in) then the Rethugs are in HUGE trouble.

Chernynkaya : Yes, CL–they are sputtering!

ADONAI : Course there was a “No Wiener Jokes” apron I had my eye on too

kesmarn : Eric Cantor was looking a bit — flummoxed? Stammering for a change. “We…we can work together…” They don’t know what to do.

Emerald1943 : CL, Cantor has been out whining about the ‘tone” of the President’s speech…like he’s got lots of room to talk, the bastard! I cannot stand that man! Smarmy SOB!

Chernynkaya : I want one too, AD. I’ll order one.

ADONAI : I dunno. Is is it?

choicelady : Everyone – is is NOT interesting the GOPrs have nothing to say?

ADONAI : thanks choice!

AdLib : Kes – I want to build a bridge from The Planet to Hawaii. Come on Bito, get in that cabinet and make it happen!

ADONAI : Cher,I want that. Just got a new grill this summer

Chernynkaya : CL–I HOPE most people aren’t stupid. For me the jury is still out.

Emerald1943 : I think the rethugs know they are in trouble. They are going to have a big problem trying to stonewall this one. They can read the polls and they know the American people are NOT with them on this.

choicelady : Adonai – you’re a glorious mixture of passionate progressive and mindless narcissist. Fascinating. We will work on getting you the ‘park anywhere’ plates.

Chernynkaya : AD–instead of a t-shirt, OFA is selling an apron that says, “Fired up! Ready to Grill!”

AdLib : It;s campaign season and Obama is not going to be able to turn the switch off on campaign mode until after November 2012. The Obama that many have been clamoring for…is back and here to stay.

ADONAI : Or work in certain government positions

Emerald1943 : Adonai, you have to be really OLD to get one of those! LOL

choicelady : PASS THIS BILL!!!!

ADONAI : Fuck the country. I want one of those license plates that let you park anywhere.

kesmarn : Awwwww, b’ito! This was the Planet’s chance to get some serious pork!!

choicelady : Em – we would make good advisors. I’d not like to be totally in charge. I’d miss my nap…

Chernynkaya : Yes–what bito said. To me, even more important than focusing on the bill is letting Congress know we are here and support the bill. “PAss the bill.” should be all we need to say–over and over.

AdLib : Em – First the country…then The Planet!

choicelady : Cher – they may try that tactic of passing one or two items, but people are not stupid, and the Obama we love is baaaack and won’t let them get away with that!

bito : k’es, “if nominated, I will not run…”

Emerald1943 : CL, he ought to put the members of PPOV in his cabinet! We could sure solve some problems!

AdLib : Kes – I seconded your nomination of Bito for TS!

ADONAI : Well, you heard them. Their number one goal is to remove Obama for office. So they have to oppose him and contrast him. Even if what he is doing is fan-fucking-tast ic. They’ve signed so many pledges and made so many proclamations that they have nowhere else to go.

choicelady : Em and kes and bito – YES you have my vote, too!

Chernynkaya : Oops AL–I wrote first before I read your comment. Spot on.

choicelady : Em – wish I’d heard it. Hi Adonai! LOVE the T-shirt idea!

Emerald1943 : Kes, bito’s got my vote!

choicelady : bito – you’re right. I already got an alert out telling people what happened last night. We will hammer this regularly. People have to speak up for this!

kesmarn : Remember, b’ito, I was the first to nominate you for Secretary of the Treasury!

ADONAI : I’m getting a t-shirt made. “Obama’s Ride the Lightning Tour” a la Metallica. The back is gonna have tour dates like a real concert shirt. Still can’t decide on a color scheme though. But I got time to wait while I compile dates.

Emerald1943 : CL, it was a rowdy version of last night’s speech. He had a great crowd and he went into campaign mode for sure!

Sabreen60 : I think the President gave a great speech and thoroughly presented his plan to create jobs. I have my doubts about the Repubs getting on board. I don’t want to see the Repubs nickle and dime the bill down to nothing – which they have attempted to do in the past.

Chernynkaya : CL I agree–the R’s will never agree to it. But they will agree to some tiny part of it and claim they cooperated. Then, when it doesn’t work because it’s just a tiny part, they will hoot that it failed.

AdLib : The Repubs seem to be playing a game of “We can look reasonable, don’t vote us out” while scheming on how they can insert a poison pill into any real jobs help. Then they can say, “We tried but Obama and the Dems care more about winning in 2012 then jobs.” I think they’ll do anything to avoid passing a meaningful bill but in the end, I don’t know if they think they can get re-elected by doing so.

choicelady : bito – HI!!! You got your bank! You’re right about everyone ripping off the Planet, but it’s so nice to know we have good ideas. Yours is a winner!

Emerald1943 : CL, this is amazing news! 3 million jobs will certainly make a dent in the problem right now.

choicelady : Em – did not hear the Richmond speech. That’s GREAT!

Chernynkaya : Re the infrastructure bank, Jonathan Alter wrote it’s a velvet-covered fist. With the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and AFL-CIO on board, Obama can say to the local Republican congressman: “I’ve got two out of three of the main players — business and labor — but will not authorize the project in your district unless I have your political support for the whole jobs bill. If you want to vote against the bill — if you want to stand in the way of your local business community’s backing of that new turnpike interchange — that’s fine. We’ll build it elsewhere.”

choicelady : Em – one of the callers today said the infrastructure bank’s capacity to leverage could put 3 MILLION to work right away with projects.

Emerald1943 : CL, the President did not let up in his speech today in Richmond. He called them out hard!

bito : Much like the GOTV the bill will only come close to passing with people’s work. We have to fax them everyday!

choicelady : AdLib – OK. this is like settling down for the pop quiz. I think it will make a huge difference with the America people. The call I was on today covered the waterfront in terms of participants and they LOVED it. I think the GOP will NOT cooperate because they do not listen to polls but to their core, and they will make their policy based on about 15% of the population. It will be their undoing, but it will slow our recovery. Obama called them out BY PARTY last night and certainly by ideology – and he has to keep doing that! It’s THEIR fault if this goes down.

ADONAI : Em, i think everyone yells at the TV every now and then. Some louder than others

Chernynkaya : I think the speech did a lot to advance the discussion and Obama’s campaign. He told us his vision and it should trap the R’s. They have been mostly silent–figuring out what to do next.

Emerald1943 : OK, back to business! I found that the STate of North Carolina will receive almost 2.5 billion dollars and will have 283,000 jobs as a result of the AJA.

ADONAI : Oh the Republicans will keep stonewalling. It will destroy their hopes for 2012, which is good. But a lot of people will bear the burden of that. I just really don’t believe Republicans are backing off of this. No matter how far their poll numbers drop

AdLib : Hey AD! Nice to hear that, I really enjoyed them too! the feedback and analysis from folks here at The Planet seemed far more genuine and insightful than the pre-processed pudnut (copyright Bito) blabber on the networks.

kesmarn : It looks as though it might be a win-win for the Prez. He wins if it passes and he looks better by the day if the Repubs try to block it.

Emerald1943 : CL, drunk again! LMAO Not really! It’s just the story I tell!

Chernynkaya : Hi Adonai!

choicelady : Em! NO ONE is supposed to have TWO! Yikes! How’d you manage to fall off a wall? That sounds AWFUL!

Emerald1943 : Adonai, I’ve done a bit of that too recently!

AdLib : TOPIC ONE: HOW DO YOU THINK OBAMA’S SPEECH AND CAMPAIGN FOR HIS JOBS BILL WILL AFFECT WHERE THINGS ARE NOW? WILL THE REPUBS KEEP STONEWALLING OR ARE THE POLLS AND TOWN HALLS SCARING THEM? WILL A DEAL GO THROUGH THAT IS STRONG OR TOO WEAK? WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Chernynkaya : CL-yeas the Prez. I was away during the discussion and wanted to add my 2 cents.

ADONAI : Really enjoyed the last couple of live blogs Al. Nice to have some outlet other than screaming at my television.

Emerald1943 : Adonai!! Glad you’re here!

choicelady : Sabreen – my aunt had gorgeous pointy toed shoes. Wound up a size 4 1/2 and wore slippers everywhere. Ugh.

kesmarn : Hey, Adonai!

Emerald1943 : Adlib, are we going to talk about the speech?

Chernynkaya : Cl–you are too feisty for pain. EM–JEEZ!!

choicelady : Cher – Speech? The Prez? Or have I, as usual, missed something?

Sabreen60 : Cher – I know that was rough. My sister had a knee replacement and surgery on her feet. She loved those pointed toe shoes and spike heels.

Emerald1943 : Cher, I’ve had one hip replaced TWICE! The surgeon botched the first one. I fell off a four foot wall onto concrete! Now that was an ouch!!

kesmarn : Oh Sabreen….I feel for you. And I was just talking about joint replacements. Option?

ADONAI : Hello

choicelady : Well to all who have ANY form of pain, I’m sorry. I’m lucky – all I have is a little in two fingers, and I can live with it. Most of the women in my family had some form of arthritis, but I don’t. Whew!

Chernynkaya : BTW–Speech was GREAT!

Chernynkaya : Sabreen–I have arth in my hip. Already had one replaced and need another. It’s those spike heels I wore in my youth!

choicelady : Sabreen – Eeeeuuuuwwwww!

AdLib : Cher – I’d bet money on it! Cheers!

Emerald1943 : CL, yes I have it. I am on some pretty nasty drugs and am doing OK for now. It’s early in the disease, but I can tell you that I DON’T LIKE IT ONE BIT!!!

Sabreen60 : Kes: Ha! Maybe some pain is minor, but when you have bone rubbing against bone and touching nerves, the pain ain’t minor.

AdLib : Cher – Yep, that’s exactly like it!

kesmarn : Ouch, Em! Are you dealing with r. arthritis? If so, I don’t envy you!

choicelady : Em – oh wow – if you have rheumatoid I KNOW how painful that is. My aunt had it, and it was awful. I’m so sorry!

Chernynkaya : AW, CL! We would conquer them easy.

Emerald1943 : CL, they don’t stand a chance against our Cher!

AdLib : Aw, CL…what a sweet thing to say!

Emerald1943 : Kes, minor my ass! Try a little rheumatoid and see how minor that is!!!

Chernynkaya : Worse–or better–AL–A JEW among them! HAH!

choicelady : Em – yes, if they tackle Cher, the Dominionists will wilt before her intelligence and charm.

AdLib : Cher – A diamond among the coal.

Chernynkaya : You got that right, Em!

choicelady : AL – you’re the rose, good friend. We will do our best to use our thorns to keep you safe. From what is not clear, but it’s the thought that counts.

Emerald1943 : Cher, God help the Dominionists! LMAO

kesmarn : Sabreen, funny how the commercials refer to “minor pain of arthritis.” Suuuure. Minor. Riiight!

Chernynkaya : AL–me among the Dominionists!

choicelady : Cher – they’re everywhere. Pay ’em no mind.

Emerald1943 : Cher, there are nuts everywhere! Hard to escape them1

AdLib : Kes – A single thorn among the roses?

Chernynkaya : CL–so is the town of Crestline! UGH!

kesmarn : A single rose among the thorns…er…or something…

choicelady : Cher – that’s not fair of me – it’s a gorgeous place so GO! Just look out for people with squinty eyes…

AdLib : Kes – Guess I’m just lucky!

Sabreen60 : Kes, Yeah right. I finally gave in and went to the Orthopedic doctor today. I’d been going to a chiropractor without much success. It seems I have arthritis.

choicelady : Cher – I looked at a Google map – it’s just inches from some kind of Christian Camp. Keep a low profile. Arrowhead is riddled with anti-abortion nut jobs.

Chernynkaya : Ready!

kesmarn : If you can handle being the only guy here, AdLib!

Emerald1943 : Cher, that was gorgeous! We do “poor” really well!

Chernynkaya : Em, yes. Not form our balcony, but right near.

Chernynkaya : It’s the poor man’s Lake Tahoe.

Emerald1943 : Adlib, yes!

Emerald1943 : Cher, was that picture you posted an actual pix of the real place?

AdLib : Okay, since we’ve got a wonderful turnout already, are you ready for our first topic?

kesmarn : Cher, that place looked gorgeous.

Chernynkaya : Missed you too Em! Sorry about the interwebs.

choicelady : Sabreen – sorry your back is out. That IS a headache, no doubt about it. Hope you repair FAST.

Chernynkaya : So anyway. I want to live at Lake Gregory now.

Emerald1943 : Cher, sorry I missed VP last week. Had no internet connection and couldn’t join you. I missed you!

Chernynkaya : CL-Yes!

choicelady : Sorry – man bites dog…

AdLib : Google was crawling…and I burped it.

choicelady : Cher – if AL ate Google, is that man bits dog sort of thing?

kesmarn : Sabreen — you’re a mere child!

Emerald1943 : Sabreen, I’m sorry! Backaches are a headache!

Chernynkaya : AL just ate Google?!

Sabreen60 : CL: Old age !!

choicelady : AL – LOL!!!!

kesmarn : Sabreen, did you overwork or is it related to the rainy weather?

AdLib : ……google…. google…burp…

choicelady : Sabreen – what happened to your back?

Chernynkaya : Oh, AL–don’t mention it! My pleasure!

Sabreen60 : Kes, It’s pretty good, except for my aching back

choicelady : Google’s crawling and we all have nothing to say. Hmmm.

AdLib : BTW, just want to give a huge thanks to Cher for hosting VP last week! Great job Cher!

Emerald1943 : Sabreen!! How are you?

kesmarn : Hey, Sabreen! How’s your Friday?

Chernynkaya : Hey Sabreen!

Emerald1943 : adlib, there are a few placed in the eastern part of the state where we can pick our own strawberries, but I can never seem to get down there. I’d love to have some!

choicelady : Sabreen! Hi!

Chernynkaya : I guess I’m trying to make the best of Google, CL!

choicelady : AdLib – that’s IT – you have to invite us to dinner!

Sabreen60 : Hey Everyone.

choicelady : Cher – Google “crawling” makes me itch!

AdLib : Em, Would send you something if it would survive that but it wouldn’t. Oh, and home grown strawberries are like velvet!

choicelady : AdLib – I do tomatoes, corn, herbs, and fall greens. That’s all the room I have. Oh – and endless morning glories which are about as welcome as kes’ poison ivy.

Chernynkaya : Google crawling me again. ooooh!

kesmarn : AdLib, how cool that you have fruits/veggie pesticide free!

Emerald1943 : CL, it’s gotta’ be! They’ve been lurking!

Chernynkaya : CL-misery loves company. It’s an old adage that applies to the Right.

choicelady : Em! How awful! Tell your browser to grow up! Must be a troll.

AdLib : CL – Yep, Farmer Lib! We have our summer veggie garden too, potatoes, corn, tomatoes, beans, peas, broccoli, most are gone and eaten but tomato plants still going strong!

choicelady : Cher – why do people get their jollies making other people miserable? It’s gonna cost a bundle to clean our computer. I had lunch with SueinCA two days ago – she gave me a place to go if I can’t find one locally I trust.

Emerald1943 : I can’t believe this…my browser just closed and booted me off with no apparent reason! Poltergeists again!