Joe Stack had reached the end of his sanity. He was not a hero, he was not a martyr. He was an American who was driven into mental illness by despair.

According to the letter he left behind, he saw the American Dream as a cunning deception that Americans are brainwashed to believe when they’re young, meant to pacify them throughout their lives while the wealthy and powerful plundered the nation’s wealth and power. He felt helpless to combat the inequity and harm that such corruption wreaked upon him.

Joe Stack had lost everything else and he had now lost his mind.

The letter he left behind (you can read it here: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0218102stack1.html), reflects a familiar and sympathetic story of a man who felt victimized by the corruption of America. What is striking is how he could be so rational in describing what had led him to deciding to commit an irrational act.

There are more than a few Americans that are on the verge of giving up in the face of such intractable and only increasing corruption of this nation, its government and its society. For some, giving up means disengaging, not even trying to make a difference any more because, “What’s it going to change?”. For a very few however, it means venting that frustration and hatred of all that’s wrong on society, its symbols and people who represent a corrupt society to them.

The suicide plane crash into the IRS for ideological reasons is not so different from what happened on 9/11. No matter how upset or frustrated anyone becomes, committing an act that could kill innocent people is not justified. Joe Stack committed an act of domestic terrorism and should be condemned for it.

At the same time, an American flying a plane into an American government building out of desperation is unfortunately symbolic of the futility that many Americans feel about trying to fix and change their government. In an era when our SCOTUS selects the president and hands our democracy to corporations, when the MSM functions as an agenda-driven propaganda machine of major corporations, when one of the only two parties governing our nation blocks progress and helping Americans who are otherwise dying just to help their prospects to regain power…it is not surprising that some feel our democracy has become so diseased and unrecognizable from what it started out to be, it is now their enemy.

Consider the Teabaggers, Anti-Abortion groups, racists, religious extremists, etc. Now consider Activist Progressives,  anti-corporation people, Dem Obama critics, pro-single-payer supporters, etc.  What do ALL of them have in common? From their own perspectives and using different issues, all see government and our democracy as corrupt.

80% of Americans oppose the SCOTUS handing our democracy to the corporations. 80%. Think about that. There’s got to be Republicans, Independents, Democrats, Libertarians, even some Teabaggers to get to that percentage.

Though they may not be protesting in the streets as they should be, if a majority of Americans still feel that more and more each day, our society and government is becoming increasingly corrupted and dominated by the wealthy and powerful…even if they are only privately thinking  that our society and democracy are failing, the decline of this nation and more terrible acts in response likely lay ahead of us.

There is only so far the rubber band can be stretched until it breaks…and those stretching the rubber band are so greedy, their mindset is that when the rubber band is reaching the end, the most profitable thing to do is stretch it faster and harder to get as much as they can before it breaks. They do not fear the outcome of their destruction. They are “too big to fail” and the government MUST always support them or they will drag the whole nation down with them.

Joe Stack may have committed a terrorist act by flying his plane into a building but what about the corporations who kamikazed into our state and local governments, the businesses we work for, our jobs and salaries, our home equity and life savings, our schools and hospitals, our police and fire departments and our life-sustaining health care? Who has truly conducted the most destructive terrorist attacks on the American people?

With all this in mind, any terrorism is wrong. The only way to improve society is to be constructive, not destructive. And as with Joe Stack, things may not improve in time to help us but it may help the next generation. So we can’t give up, we have to step up. We don’t have to give our lives to the cause of rescuing our democracy from the hands that now hold it, we just have to give a bit of time and energy. We have to be willing to write letters and make calls to our representatives, we have to be willing to attend meetings and protest in person, we have to be willing to invest at least a small share of our life to salvage the America we believe in.

Many Americans join the military for the same basic reason, to protect America from its enemies. Thousands of them have died in just the last several years…they have died, they have willingly accepted the loss of their life if necessary to protect this nation.

If we respect the huge sacrifices other Americans make each day in the pursuit of protecting us and our democracy and the many who came before them, the least we can do to honor them is to sacrifice a small amount of time and comfort to be active in fighting for the return of democracy to all Americans, including those overseas risking their lives for our nation.

We have started down the path of forming an activist group here and I hope the enthusiasm to organize and take action to try and right our democracy is profound and enduring. We can do something meaningful and constructive, there are many others out there doing so in their own way. It is not far-fetched to see a convergence somewhere down the line of many of these groups and people, a potential tidal wave of Americans demanding change that would not be held off by corporate propaganda or corrupt politicians.

There was an exchange in the movie Gandhi, I don’t know that it was from an actual quote of his but when it comes to the concerns of futility in taking action to take back our democracy from the wealthy and corporations, I do find it appropriate:

Brigadier: You don’t think we’re just going to walk out of India!
Gandhi: Yes. In the end, you will walk out. Because 100,000 Englishmen simply cannot control 350 million Indians, if those Indians refuse to cooperate.

This is the one and only thing that the wealthy and corporations fear. That we will come together in numbers to oppose their rule. They know that is the only way they can be defeated and that they simply can’t combat that. So, of course, they happily participate in trying to split us up and divide us against each other.

Because if 330 million Americans refused to cooperate with the Fortune 500, they know full well who would win that confrontation.

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choicelady
Member

I want to recycle this to respond to Cher on “one man’s terrorist is another man’s hero”.

If any of you have ever seen “The Battle of Algiers”, that issue is front and center. It opens with three Muslim women taking off their veils and robes, cutting their hair, putting on makeup, and sauntering outside to place bombs in milk bars and other public places. One woman, leaving her bomb, looks at the little boy near her – a blonde, French boy about 6 years old – and you can see the struggle she is having with the morality of this. She walks out, the bomb goes off, and probably the child is killed or at least maimed.

But then they show what the French did to the Algerians. They stopped all practice of Islam, tortured – hideously – the Muslim Algerina men, forbade people to even get married under shura law, and stripped them of every ounce of national or religious observance. The Muslim population was ghettoized in the Casbah, and they were virtual slaves to the French landholders.

What is right? My pacifist brother HATES the milk bar bombing and can find no justification. My gut is in turmoil becauase the UN would not intervene against France, and Algerians suffered a slow, daily, terror and death at the hands of the French. Coming so soon on the heels of WW II, the French genocidal policies were beyond tolerance. Their use of torture made the Gestapo look like choir boys.

Where is the line? IS there a bright line at all?

One thing I know beyond question is that every question embodies some moral relativism. It depends so much in whose shoes you are walking.

But back to my first long post (and thank you all for the kind words)that somewhere we have lost sight of victimhood. We have elevated our own inconveniences and even hard times into a kind of suffering that, from any objective viewpoint, is not suffering at all. Criminals and miscreants shift their punishment for crimes into a kind of persecution. Bullies justify their actions on the grounds that someone ‘dissed’ them or annoyed them or walked in front of them or something.

So while we may have real debates about Hamas, Hezbollah, the IRA, etc., what we need to do is stop seeing inconvenienced people or those who brought things upon themselves as “victims”.

I hope I did not already say this, but some years ago, an anti-abortion protester yelled at me that “pro-choice Christians” were being “persecuted”. In fact they were somewhat controlled by one of the few federal injunctions that mandated they keep their hands OFF the women (including people NOT going to clinics but their own physicians in a general medial building) and stay 15 feet away from clinc entrances. Over these pretty slim guidelines, the protesters were now rending garments and gnashing teeth because they had to mind their manners or face a fine.

So this angry protester ranted about the “persecution” and how they were ALL being “locked up” and “silenced”. So (because I have a very snotty streak sometimes) I asked him where he was right that moment. He thought I was nuts but answered he was on the sidewalk outside the medical building. And, I asked, what are you DOING? He snorted that he was handing out literature and ‘counseling’ women seeking abortions. And, I asked where was he going when he was done? He said, “Home”.

So much for incarceration, restraint, and muzzling.

We may not always agree on who has a justification for violence. But man – we sure can tell who does NOT. It ain’t that hard.

Khirad
Member

Juan Cole points out the obvious. He sounds kinda pissed to me (in an exasperated I’ve-been-at-this-too-long way). Or, maybe it really didn’t need a long entry. It’s just that obvious.

http://www.juancole.com/2010/02/hypocrisy-over-irs-bomber.html

It’s the shortest Juan Cole entry I’ve ever seen.

My measure? Let’s see how much is made out of this: Five Muslim soldiers arrested over Fort Jackson poison probe: report

Chernynkaya
Member

Here was an interesting comment to the blog:

Not only will it not be considered terrorism because it is domestic and the perpetrator is white, but I suspect the same right-wing commenters will discover that the race and religion of the criminal is not important. Then same people who called for racial profiling of Muslims, who approved of the mass sweep of Muslims after 9/11, and who approve of American policy to search all persons from certain countries such as Pakistan, will suddenly discover that he is an individual and not representative of all white middle-aged males who support the Tea Party movement. They will strongly argue that this is a sign of anger but he is a lone wolf – an extreme example. I would like to applaud their ability to have a more nuanced view of the world and realize because a member of a group who commits a crime does not necessarily mean the whole group is guilty or should be targeted. Unfortunately, the hypocrisy of people like Michelle Malkin is such that a defense of the Tea Party group will quickly be followed by another call to hold Muslims indefinitely without trial.

Kalima
Admin
Khirad
Member

Indeed, more is coming out and I’m glad I left you guys. I’d still like to wait further.

Morning Joke just excoriated this guy for being a top 1% income earner who was upset that he was paying half the taxes he would have in the 70’s and said if you believe that is tyranny, you need to move to get a real taste of tyranny.

Hey, even conservatives can have their moments. I know I’ll catch flack for that, but…

Kalima
Admin

LOL maybe, I’ve heard nothing but rants about him in the past.

Khirad
Member

Yeah, he has plenty of those, too. 😆

Kalima
Admin

I miss all the fun, I’d like someone to rant about in my mornings too, not fair. 🙁

TheRarestPatriot
Member

Night all. Sorry I’ve whacked a hornet’s nest in here regarding this event. I apologize to nellie and ‘cat. My intention was not to insult anyone. We all have opinions and they are all valid no matter the issue. That’s the best thing about emotions….we all have them….good or bad. I think in the end we can all see how things can be interpreted so many ways. In some ways, everyone is right here. Maybe I have an unrefined way of stressing a point that seems to insult others. I didn’t see it that way, yet perhaps that’s a character flaw of my own. I’ll work on that.
Time for some Olympic curling…my fav…..

Khirad
Member

I’m really enjoying women’s curling, actually. 😯

Pepe Lepew
Member

Can’t quite figure out the lingo, though.

“Russia’s got nowhere to hide!”

nellie
Member

I want to say right here that I take exception to the emotional overlay that has been attributed to my arguments. It’s a way to devalue what I’ve said. And it’s a lazy way to debate. Counter my points. Don’t try to cast them as somehow less than thoroughly considered and logical — as “knee jerk,” or “politically correct,” or “emotional.”

I’m going to sign off now. My posts speak for themselves.

escribacat
Member

Yes. I am getting the same dismissive argument and there’s no basis for it. Ditto and ditto.

nellie
Member

And I know why it happens. And I won’t participate.

Night e’cat.

escribacat
Member

Yep. I know too. Good night, Nellie.

KQµårk 死神
Member

Face it this guy felt entitled he was just pissed off that he did not make it to the position he thought he was entitled to get. He would have no problem being the pisser instead of the pissie if he did get to where he wanted in life. That’s the problem with Joe types they have delusions that they are so much more special than everyone else that they should be part of the rich class. That’s why low level earners vote Republican so they can lower taxes on the rich because they think someday they are going to be rich.

choicelady
Member

Amen, KQ! Years ago after the S&L debacle, I joined with a number of progressives to circulate a petition at a festival in an upstate, largely blue collar city asking that 25 cents per $100 of deposits over $100,000 be collected to re-fund the FSLIC protection for small account holders. Hardly anyone would sign because they all thought that even if they did not have that kind of money, someday soon they would. Insane!

A century ago, people of modest means understood that the rich were exploiting them. Now the rich feel exploited even though they have had the rest of us once again bearing all their risks. I realize Stack thought the rich got too many benefits, but he blamed the current administration, not the corporate gougers, for this turn of events. And overall he blamed the IRS not himself for the mess he’d made of his own life. So he thought it “fair” to kill people because he had money problems. And he thought himself some kind of avenger against those low-wage schnooks who put one foot in front of the other, paid THEIR taxes, and were trying to make ends meet on far less than he had. That’s terrorism. Manifesting your personal disgust through violence against the innocent. Enough already!

TheRarestPatriot
Member

Point well taken. Yet, most of his rant is America’s dinner table rant. And that is just simple truth. I’m going to walk away from this topic now as the tide is turning and good points are being buried by emotion. Something changed today.

PatsyT
Member

Just a Observation… right now if I look to the right on the screen
there is that Prof. from Alabama and they are saying – Insane ??
Creepy to be reading all about the Stack guy with that Alabama
woman staring back.

TheRarestPatriot
Member

…and now for something completely different….

Take a gander at what I just found and posted on Time Out. You won’t believe what you’re hearing and it has nothing to do with this all too heavy subject here…

Adlib, forgive the commercial interruption, please….

choicelady
Member

I know a pretty cool woman, Susan Pace Hamill, in Birmingham, AL who made a point that pertains to Stack and his actions. She led the movement, “Alabama Arise” to revise the outrageous tax inequities in that state whereby the poor pay the heaviest tax burdens, and the rich get off nearly scott free. She notes that America is a “low sacrifice society”. We don’t want to have to do anything to bear our own weight in this society. We want something for nothing, and the only things we focus on have nothing to do with ourselves and our responsibilties. We point fingers at gay rights and abortion and other people’s poverty or lives because we never then have to examine our own lives, our own selfishness, our own irresponsibilities.

Reagan started some of it with the “government is the problem” mantra. But once we descend into utter narcissism, we forget that taxes are the dues we pay for democracy. It’s what gets us good roads, schools, ports, harbors, airports,public safety, fire fighting, streetlights, stop lights, on and on. It’s how we preserve clean drinking water, air we can breathe, land we can work. It is a manifestation of our Common Good – the way we support those things we all need and use. It’s also how we look out after one another, especially in hard times.

If we want total individualism and thus no taxes, then we have to revert to what did not work. We also have to give up taking one red cent for our businesses, agriculture, and protection. We go back to paid-for fire departments so if my house catches fire and yours is threatened, we each have to call our individual fire department – if we’ve paid for it. Or we have our houses burn down since MY fire department cannot rescue YOUR house. We will have nothing but toll roads. Nothing at all. We will have to pay fees and tuition for our kids’ education at top rates rather than lower taxes. We will not have anything that is a public good – you want clean water? Don’t turn on the tap. Buy bottled water only or have your own cistern. Clean wholsome food? Good luck to ya.

Taxes give us the “stone soup” principle. Stone Soup: A town under siege had no food and was on the verge of starvation. An old lady hauled out a huge cauldron of water, put it on a fire and threw in a stone. As she stirred, neighbors asked what she was doing. “I’m making Stone Soup,” she said. “You can have some. But you know, you have only a couple of carrots, so if you throw those in, it will taste better. And you – you have an onion, and you have some barley, and you have a bit of meat. Toss it in for flavor.” So everyone put in what they had, and pretty soon the soup was made full of nutrition and flavor and enough for everyone to get what they needed – soup. That’s taxes. Stone soup.

We are not “overtaxed” at all. We are less taxed than any other industrial society. And we don’t get all they get, but we have a good nation, a good society, lots of freedoms, and no reasonable fear of government.

Mr. Stack made his own hell trying to have stone soup without putting in a carrot. He bought the Kool Aid – you can get without paying. That’s the Reagan, low-sacrifice principle. Make someone ELSE pay – the “taxes are for little people” belief of Leona Helmsley that has beset us all. Mr. Stack had money and cheated on his taxes. When he got caught, his problems began to escalate, but it was and is entirely of his own making.

So to show the “injustice” of the “system” rather than examining his own selfish assumptions, he tried to murder his wife and kid, he set a bomb to kill innocent people at the airport, and he crashed into a bunch of low-wage government employees apparently killing at least one person and terrorizing the others.

Mr. Stack is the perfect tea bag low-sacrifice person. It’s never about him. It’s about “them” whoever they may be. And he is less justified than even bin Laden because the government did nothing to him that he did not do to himself. At the end only one thing mattered to Stack. Himself. And his willingness to kill others to satisfy his own rage is the essence of terrorist action.

Chernynkaya
Member

People who don’t want to pay taxes:

Let their dog make a mess on their neighbor

boomer1949
Member

Republicans?

Chernynkaya
Member

Yes, Boomer– that sums them up nicely!

KQµårk 死神
Member

Here is the utter proof you need that we are one of the most under taxed nations in the world.

dftt

Right wing think tanks love to talk about tax rates for corporations but when it comes to the taxes corporations actually pay it’s much much lower because of all the loopholes and giveaways are not even part of the equation.

The so called “Fair Tax” would make things much much worse. Think about it. 98% of family income goes into consumption which what the flat tax is. So the rich can acquire as much wealth as they want through salary and capital gains and if they horde it or invest it they pay ZERO taxes on it.

Blues Tiger
Member
Blues Tiger

*

choicelady
Member

Hi Blues.

Consider the erosion of basics that occurs with a flat tax. Take 10% of $40,000 – it leaves you with only $36,000 for mortgage or rent, food, clothing, etc. Take 10% of $400,000 and you’re left with $360,000. It is not fair at all because you have the ability to cover all basics AND have disposable income at the higher levels, while you’ve eaten into the survival base of the lower income person or family.

The CA Budget Project (www.cbp.org) shows that even with a graduated tax, those in the bottom decile pay MORE as a percentage of their income overall than do the wealthy. A flat rate would make that much, much worse.

De Toqueville noted that in the 1830s that one man’s imposts were another man’s bondage.

We do not tax productive wealth. In businesses, we tax profit that is over and above productive wealth and goes for personal disposal.

With a flat tax, we would tax all income, so when you take IN less, you would be taxed on the productive wealth by which you pay for your survival costs as well as on any surplus. As you increase the wealth, a flat tax DECREASES in its impact on survival income.

That is anti-democratic.

If you start back with deductions, you tend toward larger deductions for the wealthy, smaller for the middle class.

To read more fully on this, try David Cay Johnston’s “Free Lunch” and Jacob Hacker’s “The Great Risk Shift”. They are eye-opening on the issue of how we indeed have redistributed wealth – UPWARD – from the middle and working class people to the rich, all through flattening the taxes and reducing obligations on those with the greatest incomes.

It is a myth that we tax productive wealth today. We do not. And I do not want to start doing that now!

Pepe Lepew
Member

Hey, Canada is pretty far down that list!

Mightywoof
Member

I was surprised to see us that low down – I was also surprised to see the relatively small difference in taxes between our 2 countries (apart from sales taxes – the worst formn of tax) …….. the constant conservative drip, drip, drip is that we must cut corporate taxes here or remain uncompetitive with the States – based on this chart our corporate tax rates are only .5% higher and our corporate SS taxes (including payroll taxes) are .2% lower. Conservatives are crazy loons!! If you consider that our health care comes from general revenue then we are very competitive and conservatives up here are every bit the idealogues they like to paint liberals and socialists. Plus, like Republicans, they like to paint themselves as good financial stewards and then run up deficits like they’re going out of style!!

escribacat
Member

Fascinating chart, KQ. Could you post a link for this? This would be good in our library.

msbadger
Member
msbadger

You nailed it. Excellent post! And I’ve always loved the Stone Soup story. Thank you!

escribacat
Member

Great post, choicelady.

nellie
Member

Brava, choicelady. A stunning post. Your last paragraph is perfect.

Chernynkaya
Member

I’ll say it again, because it’s just another prespective:

nellie
Member

You know what this reminds me of == that guy who owned the Z Channel, which went belly up. And when it did, he shot his wife and then himself.

TheRarestPatriot
Member

Well, except that the channel went belly up due to his bad management. It was his ‘fail’. Joe Stack’s America failed him. When you are a victim of an evil machine you have no power to stop or cajole, the weight gets pretty heavy and the threat looms large. Yes, he did have IRS issues from way back. But I can’t think of one person that loves the IRS or even can read its policies and procedures and agree with them…so…there’s a built in beastie right there. LOL~

nellie
Member

And Stark’s IRS problems resulted from his failure to pay his taxes. Sounds like the same self-inflicted wounds to me.

This guy was well off. Not some poor schmuck victim.

TheRarestPatriot
Member

Do you realize how many Americans vehemently disagree with the tax laws in this country? He had money, yes…but that’s all relative. Rich people spend what they make too. I’d love the chance to live the life this guy built. I’ve never had that kind of life. Probably never will. But alas, I digress….I know what you’re saying nellie….I truly do.

nellie
Member

And I know what you’re saying. I do understand. I just disagree.

And yes, I know our tax system is ass backwards. But that’s beside the point. And, to tell the truth, so are his finances.

I just think this is not the individual to hold up as an example of the hardships being borne by Americans right now.

TheRarestPatriot
Member

I’d never make the guy out to be a hero. Far too many people today have no outlet to vent. The pressure builds and the kettle boils over. It’s happening in far too many homes tonight…and tomorrow. Lots of people feel helpless…and hopeless. And that’s an awfully bad place to be…believe me.

nellie
Member

And I respect that. I just think THIS guy is the wrong guy to use as a symbol for all the people feeling that way.

Kalima
Admin

Again, why kill his wife, did she want to die?

nellie
Member

No. She didn’t. And I’m sure Stark’s wife didn’t want to die, either.

Z’s owner was an obsessed guy on a mission — just like this guy.

Kalima
Admin

Of course neither the spouse or the children would want to die and here in Japan murder/suicide is very common. It always makes me mad that the guy who has lost his job or had a chronic illness would presume that there is no life left for the family, except to live in shame without him. It is a purely selfish act.

nellie
Member

I agree. And Hollywood was all, “Poor Walter.” And here, his wife is dead.

It’s tragic. But it’s selfish, too. It makes me very angry — perhaps because there is suicide in my family. I can’t imagine killing someone else along with yourself.

Kalima
Admin

There was a suicide in my family too, a favourite, larger than life, always joking uncle who waited until his wife was out of town and hung himself in their basement where she found him the next day. Even though mu aunt was in poor health, he wouldn’t have ever considered harming a hair on her head.

Kalima
Admin

I’m so sorry nellie.

nellie
Member

I’m sorry to hear that, Kalima. In my case, it was my dad.

It’s very complicated and very sad. And like your uncle, he would never have harmed anyone else.

TheRarestPatriot
Member

I think it must be said that there is no manual. No operator’s guide to life. All of us are unique in our actions and our methods. Joe Stack is unique in his actions…but not alone in thought or divination. As I wrote in in Time Out this morning when this event happened, all of us have shared similar ideas about our dying Republic and its hubris, corruptness and failing society as Joe Stack had.
Again, there is no handbook to guide those of us in society that have no outlets or sounding boards to allow us a venue or platform to express serious concerns of this nature without sounding like kooks. Somehow the TeaBaggers can act like idiots, express pure hate, ignorance and racism and still get media coverage as though THEY represent America.
I do not condone the injury or death of innocents….anywhere…for any reason. But it’s a different matter when you speak of corporations and their CEOs, governmental bodies that snigger away in back rooms making deals that border on genocidal and those that would see this Nation fall for their next mega-annual bonus. I am not a pacifist. I used to be. Yet, this world and its evil have taught me to be wary and cynical. It may well be my life situation that has me so revved up, but I was well on my way to this point for years. To call Joe Stack insane or mentally ill is, well…to call me the same…and so many others that are fed up…and I don’t mean “fire off an angry email” fed up either. I want justice in my lifetime. We realize this world ‘owes’ us nothing. This is a mind-trap the MSM plays out for those that act out. Justice is what we want. There IS however a document in DC that DOES say I, as a US citizen, AM entitled to certain things in this Republic. and far too many of us watch as those entitlements fade away. How in the world are any of us supposed to pursue happiness when we as a tribe are left without care when we’re sick? Or we are monetarily destroyed by those that buy $4000k shower curtains? Or watch our jobs float off into the haze of another country as our car payments are due and we’ve lost our jobs? Eventually, we learn as Pavlov discovered. Or we fight…for things that ARE ours. But we can’t all act alone like Joe Stack. And we can no longer be pacifists I’m afraid.
There is no handbook. And to dissect the man that was Joe Stack is to take a scalpel to America. He was NOT mentally ill…he was frustrated, angry, wronged and, yes, depressed to see his America fail him…and all of us so badly.

KQµårk 死神
Member

Believe me there is a flying manual somewhere that expressly says you don’t fly planes into buildings.

How do you know if he was mentally ill or not?

But his actions were definitely that of a entitled narcissist.

Kalima
Admin

We don’t know if he was mentally ill, that is the way people prefer to think about someone who murders his family, abuses a child, a spouse or an animal or flies a plane into a building, so are the suicide bombers in the ME, Afghanistan, Kashmir and all over the world also mentally unstable?

KQµårk 死神
Member

He definitely was mentally unstable and I think he was probably mentally ill.

Kalima
Admin

And such a nice, quiet man who payed his bills on time.

We are perceived as to how we present ourselves to the people in our daily social circle outside the privacy of our homes, this is why it would be so hard to identify and stop the next Stark. One man blowing his mind over certain issues will not help to change the minds of others who will one day try to do the same. These are basically angry people, I’ve met angry people in my lifetime and no matter how much you talk to them, nothing will change their minds. They remain angry about most things and a few will no doubt take things into their own hands.

We all have concerns about our daily lives, most of us learn how to deal with it. It seems rather reaching to blame the government about everything that goes wrong with our lives, especially when you haven’t been paying your taxes while others are struggling to survive from day to day.

TheRarestPatriot
Member

Bingo~

TheRarestPatriot
Member

Well, the man ran two software companies, lead a relatively normal life including buying pianos, playing in a band and having relationships, know enough to buy and fly his own plane, etc… Sounds pretty normal to me. It’s sorta like the old yarn about the guy falling off a 35 story building….it’s not the fall that kills you, it’s the sudden stop and the end. Perhaps in the last hour of his life he may have had a psychotic break, but mentally ill? Nah, that’s the easy answer isn’t it?
We are all brainwashed to detest these events because they are all so horrible. Yet. like I said…we ALL feel very similar about many issues as this guy. Does that make us all insane? are we insane ALL of the time or just some…maybe when we get angry…are we insane then? Or is it just when we act OUT are we insane?
As I said, I do not condone the taking of innocent lives in any circumstance. I can, however, totally understand WHY this guy did what he did.

bito
Member

Dog, TRP, I have had a stroke, been diagnosed with stage IV cancer, lost my job, house, car, savings….Should I now uddenly become some “stable-minded” terrorist bomber? Do I have “enough” justification? Have I missed my calling?

Oh, woe is me. I am not some woman in Darfur, getting gang raped while trying to gather roots and fire wood to feed my family!

Frustrated people do not burn down their house, with their wife and child inside, fly a plane into a building full of innocent people.

KQµårk 死神
Member

Exactly bito I really appreciate survivors like you that cope so well with what life gives them.

That’s why I don’t think there is anything about this guy that is special. It takes a brave person to face life’s challenges.

nellie
Member

b’ito, you are a gem and a credit to mankind.

Chernynkaya
Member

x2!!!

bito
Member

nellie, no, I’m not. 🙂 I am just as pissed-off as Joe Stack, Joe the plumber, Joe the carpenter. “Joe the everyman.” I am not going to take someones life because I can blame it on some outside harm.
I could have made my life easier by going to Nam and killed people. I could just have blamed “the government.” I chose not to, and suffered for it. Big deal. My choice.
I am just a shlub trying to reach the “inner wheel.” No greater or smaller than you.

Good night all. Another thoughtful day at The Planet. thanks all.

nellie
Member

You are no shlub, dear friend. Far from it. And you’re just going to have to accept the truth gracefully.

Sleep well.

TheRarestPatriot
Member

As I said, I do not condone what he did. I simply understand why. I, too, have lost it all…some of it due to this governmental policy. Should I do something so wicked? I haven’t.
Yet, I doubt that every terrorist suicide bomber, Indian protesters setting themselves on fire, or every Patrick Henry was insane or mentally ill. Right?

Patrick Henry said, “Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!” Do you remember what the crowd chanted after his oratory?

“TO ARMS, TO ARMS”…..

Was out nation founded on insanity? Well,…now that I think on it….LOL~

I do not take lightly your suffering my friend…and I do consider you a friend. You are a survivor. You are strong.

bito
Member

TRP, What? Did Patrick Henry burn down homes/buildings with innocents inside? Did the Government steal your health? Did any one steal his health?
Patrick H. fought with words.

I am not a survivor, I am a patient. My bootstraps are gone. You have your good health.
I cannot justify/understand the taking the lives of innocent people.

TheRarestPatriot
Member

No. Henry sacrificed himself. A death is a death. Again, I’d never condone taking innocent lives. I am sorry you are dealing with cancer. I sat with my wife for over 7 months watching the chemo reduce her to 85lbs killing the mutations that had spread to her lungs, as well. I watched her suffer and nearly die. I’ve slept in those hospital room chairs designed to break your back and your spirit after a day or two. I know Vanderbilt UH like the back of my hand for all of the time I spent there roaming the halls weeping. I want you to be a survivor.

nellie
Member

Why he set his house on fire with his wife and daughter inside? There is no “why” for that. And that’s the same impulse that flew that plane into the IRS building.

TheRarestPatriot
Member

There is no handbook to tell him what to do about anything. When a person snaps,…they do stupid things. Sometimes there is no ‘why’…there just…is.
Sort of like why CEOs or politicians plunder America to the point where people lose their lives because of it. Is that any more ‘sane’ than what Joe Stack did?
Tons of ‘triggers’ in this life. It’s what you do in the crunch that defines you. I suppose after all that has happened to me I could just as easily snap and do something similar. Yet, I haven’t. Does that make me stronger than Joe Stack…..or weaker? Slippery slope…

nellie
Member

TRP, I know mental illness. I’ve had a lot of experience with it.

Undoubtedly this has some mental health issues involved — my opinion is something like KQuark’s in that it seems like obsessive narcissism to me — but mental illness is not necessarily violent, and not necessarily murderous.

nellie
Member

Well, if that’s the case, then we’re not talking about social ills — we’re talking about an individual who handles life in a very inappropriate way. Which is exactly what I and other have been saying.

TheRarestPatriot
Member

I suggest a sudden, tidal psychotic break…Otherwise I think we’re just dealing with a guy with personality issues. Yet, he WILL be labeled as a mentally ill person. He has to be portrayed that way to prevent so many in America as seeing themselves like him. And loads do. It’s an easy and effective containment method for societies.

Khirad
Member

Good points all… I think I’m gonna stop conjecturing for tonight and wait for more info to come out.

Khirad
Member

Anyone?

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/02/18/scott-brown-terrorism-yawn/

Repost from a poster over “there”:

A few things to keep in mind when evaluating whether or not his rage, and the attack, was justified:

1) He tried to k1ll his wife and kid
2) He appears to be a tax-cheating fothermucker
3) He was wealthy enough to own his own plane
4) He owned his own house
5) He had a retirement income

Kalima
Admin

Sounds like your average, nutty anti-government rage to me, certainly wasn’t suffering as many are in your country

bito
Member

This from one of the links on the Think Progress article.

RabidinL.A. wrote: We have to sell our family home of 53 years to pay inheritance taxes – money that’s already been taxed for two lifetimes. I can relate and sympathize with this. And to think the taxes from our home will be spent to support illegals and their ilk (anchor babies) just makes me ill. There is definitely something wrong with the system when you have to sell your home to pay abusive taxes. My taxes will be paid, but we will be homeless. It’s a good thing I don’t have a plane too.

He is in a rarefied tax bracket of the top 0.02% and I am supposed to believe this person is going to be homeless?

I smell “troll”

PatsyT
Member

You smell right !

escribacat
Member

“…illegals and their ilk…” I wonder which “ilk” he’s referring to.

Kalima
Admin

A very nasty and hateful troll, any excuse to blame the “brown” people.

Khirad
Member

No kidding.

escribacat
Member

Scott Brown strikes me as a big yawn.

nellie
Member

He really does seem to be an empty suit — but he’s a charming one. And an attractive guy. He’ll get far with those superficial qualifications. And I don’t think he’s a stupid man — so he won’t be making the same mistakes that Palin has been making.

escribacat
Member

Okay, here’s where we part ways, my friend. This guy is not my type. He is not attractive at all to me. He reminds me of a ken doll. Now…Sherrod Brown….hmmm. 😆

nellie
Member

😆 You are funny, e. He’s not MY type either — but he’s attractive in the scheme of things.

No sirree — I’m a Keanu Reeves girl!

escribacat
Member

😆 Keanu is pretty cute!

Khirad
Member

I saw Rubio today talking… sigh. Seems to fit the same suit.

escribacat
Member

Khirad, you are full of *sighs* this evening! Rough day?

Khirad
Member

You ever wake up feeling ‘off’?

Kalima
Admin

The party of NO will be hailing him as their Obama before the next election. Laughing too much makes my neck hurt. 🙂

KQµårk 死神
Member

I’ll give you good odds that they will canonize this guy at CPAC.

Kalima
Admin

He needs to perform at least one “miracle” before that. Maybe he can drop his pants and make the Repub ladies faint, or maybe not.

escribacat
Member

I often question the motives of killers who do violent acts for “political” reasons. Only the most narcissistic personality could come up with “I must kill others” as a response to a personal, financial, or spiritual crisis. My guess is this guy wanted to dress himself up with high-sounding language and his “manifesto” but the fact is he just couldn’t cope with the same problems that the rest of us cope with and he was selfish enough to want to punish others for it.

Many of the Islamic terrorists also strike me as just plain psychopaths, using a great religious war (jihad) to make themselves look and feel bigger and more important and more profound than they are. I’m sure they believe they are doing it for Allah, but they are actually just doing it for themselves.

nellie
Member

I couldn’t agree more. Especially when it comes to groups that hold themselves up as righteous — only to murder thousands of people.

Excellent points, well said.

Khirad
Member

exactly, I’m with you on this – as muddled as my other points have been… *sigh*

bito
Member

Well said, E’cat.

I often question the motives of killers who do violent acts for

KQµårk 死神
Member

Spot on analysis!

It’s about entitlement to allot of these people as well. Guys like this think they are entitled to a great life with riches and no problems.