AdLib : Cheers back at ya, Patsy! And thanks to everyone for making this such a kick!
PatsyT : Thanks AdLib and ALL you are the total BEST !!
Khirad : Wasn’t named something like unobtainium, was it?
kesmarn : Thanks for enduring my bird-in-the-cuck oo-clock in/out attendance. It was fun.
AdLib : Night BDM!!!
AdLib : Can’t remember the name of the corp off hand but the film was clever.
BigDogMom : Well it was great, off to bed for me, nite all!
Khirad : Googled myself once or twice. It kinda creeps me out to be reminded of some of the things I wrote like years ago like that. Ah, Brave New World.
PatsyT : Yes when I do that all kinds of PTA stuff comes up
AdLib : IT’S THAT TIME FOLKS, TIME TO WRAP UP ANOTHER GREAT EDITION OF VOX POPULI…THANKS TO ALL OF YOU! THE CHAT CONTINUES AT THE AFTERCHAT POST WHICH YOU CAN GO TO THROUGH THIS LINK: «link»
kesmarn : What was the name of the Mega Corporation in Wall-E? I know it was funny…can’t recall though…
BigDogMom : Hey, has anyone ever googled themselves? I did it just to see what was out there, and low and behold there was that evil e-mail that I sent to Jack Cafferty at CNN!
PatsyT : Yes I saw them in the Dallas Airport
AdLib : Had a lot more to it then most kid’s movies, the messages were solid and the population of reclined fatties was right on target.
PatsyT : Kes your secret is safe here on line….
kesmarn : Hey guys, keep this under wraps! This is just between us and–as javaz says–55 countries and 66 million people!
BigDogMom : I need a Cyborg to clean my house, I hate cleaning.
PatsyT : Not just a kids movie
AdLib : Yes, my daughter enjoyed it, it was cute.
PatsyT : A kids movie Wall E yes
Khirad : Cyborgs are kinda cool. But we digress…
AdLib : Wall-E?
AdLib : Wally???
PatsyT : Hey AdLib have you seen Wally ?
kesmarn : BDM, yes. Filed electronically. It’s getting easier all the time.
BigDogMom : AdLib –
AdLib : Kes is PlanetCPA.
Khirad : BDM – that was my twisted logic for giving the GOP both houses and the presidency. And yet, some STILL haven’t learned that lesson!
PatsyT : Hey Kes I’m next
AdLib : Khirad, we will soon have our computers surgically implanted. It will make it harder to look at the serial number when calling customer service but you can’t have everything.
kesmarn : Khirad, he had already done most of the work himself. Just needed a quick once-over! (Wish I really could do returns at that speed. I’d change jobs!)
BigDogMom : kes, what did you do, file electroically w/e-file?
PatsyT : I see that young people see through a lot of crap like the DADT and DOMA I feel they are going to be OK
BigDogMom : Sometimes I wished we had a full economic meltdown just to wake some people up and so the we can start from scratch and on an even playing field.
Khirad : Wow Kes, that was fast!
Khirad : I got your point AdLib. …and I also hate that my new laptop will be obsolete in a year or two… but that’s another topic.
kesmarn : Hey, y’all are still here. Got that 1040 reviewed and fired off and now the kid just has to wait for his $$$. He’d better enjoy it before the Repubs find a way to send it to Wall St.
PatsyT : Real issues will prevail That is one of the things I love about Obama he is pushing reality
BigDogMom : The repugs and the teabaggers can only go on for so long, I like to believe that good always triumphs..they will burn themselves out, people will turn on them.
PatsyT : AdLib sorry that I poop pad stinks but good to know
AdLib : Khirad, so my point is, they are a short term thing. They are irrelevant.
PatsyT : Pimpim Okeefes LOLOL !!
BigDogMom : Adlib, you got that right.
Khirad : AdLib – duh.
AdLib : Let’s face it, the baggers wouldn’t be as furious and protesting if it wasn’t a black Dem in the WH.
Khirad : Exactly PatsyT, they’ll be dead soon enough. That’s no comfort for some, but I can wait them out to a certain degree. I’ll deal with the Pimpin’ O’Keefes and soi-disant Ron Paulites.
BigDogMom : Hey, once the bagger’s won’t be able to get their scoot arounds for free anymore via Medicare, then they will really be pissed and look out!
PatsyT : BDM no kidding but the young people are also engaged like never before and they have the tools to gain all the info
BigDogMom : Boy do I need spell check!
BigDogMom : Patsy this sedation that you see is reminecent of the McCarthy era
PatsyT : Those baggers are on shaky ground Look at the population trends the repubs are die ing off
Khirad : That was funny AdLib – Wii Tennis. Don’t dis technology too much. If only WE could harness the organizing power of internet and SMS.
AdLib : I just got a new iPoop. It’s total crap.
PatsyT : AdLlib I see the sedation all around how about that I pad (Ha who did that and ran, the name)
BigDogMom : No Khirad, your right, we just need to bring back some regulation, some new trade agreements, new tax laws for corps…everythi ng O said he wants to do.
AdLib : Patsy, but don’t you think if Repubs regain the COngress or WH and just tell the baggers that they’re right, they’ll just give it up?
Khirad : I don’t get the revolution thing. And replace it with what? We need to abolish a few things here and and add a few amendments there, no? We need an uprising, but not a revolution. I’m being a little anal here though, I realize.
PatsyT : Well the cat is out of the bag now We cannot go back to Business as usual Banks will be made to behave or those baggers will show up at their doors packing heat
AdLib : Patsy, I don’t think there will ever be another revolution in America again. Between the high rate of obesity keeping Americans from being able to march and the distractions of video games, Tivo and iTUnes, instead of fiddling while America burns we can be playing Wii tennis.
BigDogMom : Khirad, only when they can’t find jobs and have to live at home after being on thier own in college
BigDogMom : Let’s hope this gets sorted out and it will be a cleaner, brighter and happier future.
PatsyT : That is funny AdLib my middle daughter (15) asked if we could have a revolution like in previous centuries …. I said only of a sort, I think
Khirad : I would have thought people would have figured it out around Debs’ time. Maybe with the Cold War receding the s-word might not be so bad? I see the teabaggers using it. Do those born after the fall of the Berlin Wall care?
AdLib : I have a 6 year old daughter, I can’t imagine what life will be like for her when she graduates from college. What America will she have grown up to find?
BigDogMom : It will go under if not changed, see great depression banking regulations.
PatsyT : nighty night Nellie…
PatsyT : Besides they are always just a click away they can be woken up when needed
BigDogMom : Nite Nellie
nellie : ight all!
AdLib : Bye nellie!!!
Khirad : Night nellie.
nellie : Great chat, AdLib. Thank you! Great quesitons tonight
AdLib : Is capitalism, the way it is structured in America, viable or in the end will this cvountry go under if it’s not changed?
nellie : I’ve gotta go, everhone.
Khirad : Sure we will see this again, this is what capitalism is all about. Dips and gains, with little regard to stability or human suffering.
BigDogMom : Think about your parents and grandparents, did they forget about the depression, that marked them for life…this is close to that, people, I think will remember this.
nellie : People in this country love the idea of capitalism. THey love the idea of a free market. I don’t think they associate our banking problems with capitalism. They think it’s corruption.
AdLib : Khirad, so true but this time the standard of living is declining in a greater way.
PatsyT : How can they go back to sleep now the music is too loud
AdLib : In the end, we have seen that capitalism is a self-destructive system, under-regulated, it is a snake that will swallow itself. Aren’t we just headed for another terrible crash in the future if this dynamic isn’t changed?
Khirad : This last question seems too easy. They’ll forget, as they always do. Just like they do when oil prices go back down.
BigDogMom : AdLib, I think it will be 50-50 split, so many new people have become involved in politics because of O and have stuck with it.
PatsyT : I know who I’m asking to help with taxes
Khirad : Night kes.
BigDogMom : Nite kes..
AdLib : cYA kES!
PatsyT : Night Kes
kesmarn : So sorry, folks. In another of my previous lives I did tax preparation (even took courses!) and my son is here needing help with his taxes. I’m afraid I have to bow out. Good night, all!
Khirad : In another universe I say Sanders. We said fantasy, right?
BigDogMom : I like Menendez, very well spoken and can take heat from the other side without getting ruffled.
AdLib : ONTO OUR FINAL TOPIC FOR THE EVENING: WITH THE CRASH OF THE ECONOMY PEOPLE BEGAN QUESTIONING THIS WHOLE CAPITALISM THING. AS THE BANKS HAVE COME BACK (BUT AREN’T LENDING) AND PEOPLE SLOWLY GET JOBS (LOWER PAYING AS THEY MAY BE) AND HC (POORLY COVERED UNLESS REFORM PASSES), WILL PEOPLE FALL BACK INTO THEIR COMFORT WITH OUR ECONOMIC SYSTEM OR WILL THEY CONTINUE TO PROTEST ITS UNFAIRNESS?
PatsyT : no joe no way
BigDogMom : There is always Droupy Dawg, my beloved Senator LIEburman…then we can bomb countries at random, oh goody!
PatsyT : I’ll go Rockefeller
PatsyT : Fantasy league we need Pepe for this one..
AdLib : WHo would be the best leader, seniority aside, for the Dems in the Senate?
BigDogMom : Why don’t we start a fantasy league of Dems? Just like in football!
PatsyT : Menendez ?
AdLib : I’m not comfortable with Patty Murray, conservative is marbled through her.
nellie : I think Franken really does want to be the next Paul Wellstone.
PatsyT : Franken way too cool
Khirad : Would Patty Murray be too much like Reid?
kesmarn : OH YEAH, Baby! Franken!
BigDogMom : Yes, FRANKEN ALL THE WAY!!!!
nellie : Love that idea
AdLib : As a fantasy, how would Senate Leader Franken hit ya!
nellie : How long has he been there?
PatsyT : Haa someone else that has seen the Red Green Show
kesmarn : Rockefeller’s cool.
BigDogMom : Two women, that would never go over…Rockefell er would be my choice
Khirad : I can’t figure Feingold out lately.
Khirad : PatsyT – Thanks!!! I’ve been trying to figure out where I heard Sherrod’s voice before. LOL!
nellie : ha ha
AdLib : The senate drum is busted.
nellie : Which is great for us — but maybe not so great for a leadership position.
PatsyT : Rockefeller ?? I love him
nellie : He’s not really marching to the senate drum
AdLib : I second Barbara Boxer.
nellie : I don’t know about Feingold
kesmarn : nellie, BDM–guess I didn’t know about Schumer’s “dark side.” Hmmm.
AdLib : Wouldn’t Russ Feingold be interesting?
Khirad : BDM- it’s also a gay thing with Pelosi. Remember, SF is code for all that is wrong with liberal élite debauched godless democrat partiers. I do love to hear them complain about our ‘obsession’ with SP. They never have a comeback when I point out theirs for Pelosi.
nellie : Too bad Byron Dorgon is leaving
BigDogMom : Schumer has skeletons in the closet, but then again so does most of them
PatsyT : Ohh Barbara Boxer ???
kesmarn : Patsy, yes, Sherrod has that gravelly voice and crazy hair but be’s smart and has good values. A real heart for the people.
nellie : But I like him too overall
nellie : Schumer’s a little DLC for my taste
kesmarn : I like Schumer.
javaz : OT, but this thing is awesome, in that it finally works for dialup! I can almost follow it! May I ask how long it goes, as I am getting sleepy.
PatsyT : Love Sherrod Brown he sounds like that canadian guy on TV the Red Green show
nellie : Because she gets things done
BigDogMom : Why do all the GOP’ers hate Nancy, is it that women thing?
nellie : Durbin would be ok
Khirad : Yeah, I looked up the Senate Leader rules once. They can bend them to have some leeway. Part tradition, part expediency.
AdLib : I think Durbin and Schumer would be at the top of the list, seniority wise.
BigDogMom : If Reid is out, we need someone with pannache! Someone that is strong like Nancy, but likable
nellie : I don’t even know who I would want
kesmarn : Too bad Sherrod Brown is a rookie. He’d be great.
AdLib : Practice in the Senate is respect for the Dems with seniority and in higher positions however it is not a rule. It is likely that the more senior and higher ranked Dems would be the most likely to compete for it.
PatsyT : Yes We have some pretty big hair at our meetings !!
Khirad : Is there anyone to replace Reid should he pull a Dodd? I think the writing is on the wall. It would be nice to have a Senate Leader from a reliably blue state,.
nellie : That sounds right
BigDogMom : Isn’t it the senior members names that are offered to a vote?
PatsyT : Khriad the dems need to step up as the Big Tent – American Party – The Dems truly reflect the best of America !
kesmarn : nellie, LOL!
nellie : Oh dear — Byrd. no no no no
kesmarn : Kinda scary thinking of Byrd running the show.
javaz : kesmarn, the media says no, but I say yes.
nellie : Right– but isn’t there a certain level of seniority that a person needs.
BigDogMom : Patsy – LOL!! Do they have big hair now?
AdLib : Senate leader is an elected position.
nellie : Isn’t senate leader a question of seniority?
kesmarn : j’avaz, do you think Reid has a chance?
AdLib : Survey of 500 Likely Voters in NV January 11, 2010 Election 2010: Nevada Senate Race Sue Lowden (R) 48% Harry Reid (D) 36%
nellie : That’s “ever”
nellie : More than every
BigDogMom : Khir – I think O will be getting the Dems in line, he’s mad
nellie : We still have a very corrupt media
nellie : THey need to get their act together
PatsyT : Our local OfA has mophed into it’s own group with a facebook page kinda Moveon kinda OfA you know?-? I’m a little bit country and I’m a little bit Rock and Roll
kesmarn : Wow. Good question, AdLib. Hafta think about that one.
Khirad : Why do none of them see that they resemble what they decry in the purity of the other side? We are a big tent. Let them on the other side marginalize themselves. As for our doctrinal ideologue “true-believers ” – do we need them if they can’t even see their own myopia?
nellie : I echo that
javaz : Don;t be so sure, AdLib, about Reid being gone,
nellie : Plouffe had a book to write
AdLib : So who would be the next Sen Leader for the Dems?
kesmarn : Agree. Reid’s days are numbered.
nellie : I think Plouffe wanted to leave
AdLib : And Reid will be gone in Novemebr, no way he can win now.
nellie : HP that is
nellie : I go there because it’s an important player in the progressive world. I want to know what they’re doing.
kesmarn : I’m not impressed with Reid, either. Pelosi is gutsier.
AdLib : Bush kept his campaign staff on board, Obama let Plouffe go.
javaz : Why would you still give AH money by going to her site? That’s my reason for boycotting, because she is NOT a progressive, but a right wing hag that writes a right wing rag.
nellie : Agree, PatsyT
nellie : And then once he was inaugurated, they somehow forget they had to keep doing that.
PatsyT : Nellie OfA needs a kick in the pants
nellie : What they did so well during Obama’s campaign was bypass the media
kesmarn : Yes, it’s as though it’s a given that Repubs don’t have to behave responsibly. It’s not a given. They need to be held accountable.
AdLib : I am not a fan of Reid. He is not strong, he is a get-along guy and I see no evidence of how that has worked for Dems.
BigDogMom : Pelosi is great, like her, not sure about Reid, need more umff or something
nellie : I think they dropped the ball
nellie : I’m a little upset w Organizing for America
nellie : She’s tough. I love ite
PatsyT : Kes Yes they have to fight on the right battle field Maybe they need a GPS
javaz : Agree, Nellie, I like Reid too, and the more I hear from Pelosi, I like her better.
AdLib : Khirad, there is a righteousness bleeding from these Purist Dems that is similar to the Teabaggers. It is not maleable.
nellie : Every other comment I post at HP is “VOTE OUT THE GOP”
nellie : `I like that, kes
BigDogMom : Kes, I like that one Death Ray of Anger!
kesmarn : I just straight up told one complaining Lib: “It’s time to turn the Death Ray of Anger in the direction where it belongs: the Repubs.” There was a long silence….
nellie : I like Reid
AdLib : Pelosi is determined! Reid…bends like a Reid in the wind.
javaz : We’ve been here and done this before, and when it comes time to clean house, and it is time to clean house, the voters will do it. The only thing that scares me is the SCOTUS ruling for the corporations, but I really do not believe that we the people are going to take that shit for long,
BigDogMom : Adlib, I think they will be out, the movement is more towards the middle, they will have a hard time just like the repugs
Khirad : AdLib I don’t know how to reason with orthodox delusion. I want to hear if you guys have any better ideas.
nellie : Iknow, that was good!
PatsyT : LOL Khirad – One Jameson away !
nellie : She said they weren’t giving up, and if the gates were closed, they’d pole vault over them, and if that didn’t work they’d parachute in
BigDogMom : nellie, missed that one, what did she say?
nellie : although if the dems pass health care, it WILL be poll vaulting
AdLib : There are Dems that are 100% committed to attack and oppose Obama for what they see as transgressions against Progressive values. They don’t show any concern for the fall out, they are tunnelvisioned. How do we deal with them and what they’re doing to our prospects in Nov.?
nellie : ooops, that’s pole vaulting
nellie : I like what Nancy Peolisi said today about poll vaulting
PatsyT : BDM very good point that b asking effect will make a difference
Khirad : LOL Nellie. One Jameson’s away from Ron Burgandy.
javaz : Oops, it means that the Dems you are talking about, are going to allow the Republicans control again, but that’s not a bad thing. Am I the oldest person here? Americans are angry, and the anger crosses party lines, and for a change, we all are holding our elected officials responsible.
nellie : Chis Matthews was so impressed, he forgot what the president’s ethnicity is
BigDogMom : When the poll numbers turn towards O, they will want to bask in his sunlight
Khirad : Why don’t they just officially join the GOP already… I’m sorry, but I haven’t heard one of them offer me reality-based solutions to get our ideals legislated in the really-real world. P.S. Blackburn demonstrated how unbipartisan the teabaggers are. She couldn’t even say DemocratIC Party to the PRESIDENT.
PatsyT : Uggh… they (the uber dems) have got to get over it. I sometimes think they are repubs hiding in dem clothes to stir things up – they are under cover
AdLib : The GOP has shrunken to just the extremists and absolutists, they are smaller but the upside is that they all march in lockstep. The Dems however are in the midst of a brewing civil war, Dem agaianst Dem. As the saying goes, a house divided aginst itself cannot stand.
nellie : Rachel was impressed
nellie : I don’t trust dems in the media
BigDogMom : O says that he will be speaking to his party as well, they need to comprimise just like the repugs
nellie : Good question
BigDogMom : No, I think the public is getting tired of this BS, they have too much on their plate now, they want to see their paychecks get bigger, less taxes and good HC…the repuglies bickering doesn’t make that happen
javaz : Well, AdLib, here’s what it means to me.
AdLib : ONTO OUR SECOND AND RELATED TOPIC. A NUMBER OF DEMS IN THE MEDIA WERE UNIMPRESSED BY OBAMA’S SOTU SPEECH. THEY VEHEMENTLY OPPOSE HIM BECAUSE OF ALL THE NON-PROGRESSIVE THINGS HE’S DONE AND NOT DONE. THEY ARE BEYOND BEING REASONED OUT OF THEIR POSITION. HOW DO WE DEAL WITH THEM AND WHAT MIGHT THIS MEAN TO NOVEMENR ELECTIONS?
BigDogMom : javaz, those republicans that are not happy are now or will be indies
kesmarn : I hope you’re right, BDM. It always amazes me how much people crave a good brawl.
BigDogMom : I think the majority of Indies don’t like the conflict any more
kesmarn : The MSM thrives on conflict in general and will do whatever it takes to keep it going. Conflict=drama=v iewers=$$$
PatsyT : It seems that the back and forth is what fills their kitty so now it is time to cut the Obama attacks Right? Cue the liberals
AdLib : BDM – Exactly, we have to stop watching the corporate BS and encourage others to boycott it. It only encourages them.
BigDogMom : Adlib, that’s where we come in, what happens when a greater number start complaining and stop watching?
javaz : AdLib, that’s a killer for the majority of Republican voters, because they are disenfranchised more than ever. They do not like being thought of as the Sarah Palin teabagger party and they do hate Limbaugh. The moderates – meaning the actual voters that consider themselves GOP are embarrassed by the party they support. And those are the people we need to reach out to and open a dialogue.
PatsyT : Good point BDM it’s time for the attacks to cool it
AdLib : The MSM is owned by corporations who do not want change. They like things just fine now, as they continue to own more of the wealth of this nation and the people own less. DOn’t expect them to champion Obama consistently…j ust long enough to keep supporters watching some of their commercials.
BigDogMom : Adlib, please don’t insult Dead Heads everywhere by comparing the repuglies to them…not good
kesmarn : People would be pleasantly surprised at how much “big government” can do for them, AdLib.
BigDogMom : What we need is the MSM on O’s side, once public opinion switches as it did during the elections, they will swing, it’s all about viewership
AdLib : BDM, yes, the GOP are The Living Dead (Heads).
AdLib : Think how thrilled the American Public would be with the filibuster gone and sweeping, positive legislation flowing through COngress. Government works and works well! This could be a home run in every direction.
PatsyT : BDM great point – we can only hope
BigDogMom : Adlib, does this mean they will start eating each other?
BigDogMom : I think the American public is getting weary of all this back and forth, the money, the hipocracy….if O can motivate the public morally than we are set
AdLib : Meanwhile, the GOP is becoming more closed: On the AP right now: HONOLULU – The Republican National Committee, pressed to find a way to more clearly distinguish itself from Democrats, on Friday adopted a rule that will prod GOP leaders to provide financial support to only those candidates who support the party’s platform.
PatsyT : Kes yes they have been taken for a ride
kesmarn : Patsy, part of the problem with the right, though, is that the naive ones believe they ARE serving a higher cause…ironical ly.
javaz : They do not want to, AdLib, and that’s what we have to figure out.
PatsyT : We are really asking a lot of people in this capitalist country to not look at the $$$ as motivation How can they drawn to a higher cause ??
kesmarn : I see your point, AdLib. In effect, it removes the “cushioning” effect and lets the bad legislation stand for all to see in its ugly glory…
BigDogMom : Well, HC aside, let’s see if they can get the consumer protection agency voted in and other things that help the voters, that’s where it’s at…
AdLib : javaz, that’s what we try to do at The Planet. Talk about issues and not attack the person. We can do that in a bigger way as well and at the very least, set the table for others in the GOP to join us. We can’t make them sit down though if they don’t want to.
Khirad : Especially when the filibuster is abused. I’d settle for 55.
nellie : It’s about the indignation in the public. It’s about the money in the congress.
kesmarn : Exactly, nellie, it’s morality as much as money.
AdLib : Kes, think about this. By using the filibuster, the Dems make Republican rule more palatable. SOme people might like the dynamic because they can count on the outrageous things to be stopped by the Dems. What if that wasn’t the case? Then outrageous things would pass, voters would rise up and tell the Dems to take over and reverse the damage. Yes, bad policies can happen under Repub leadership but why should we be supporting anti-democratic policies like the filibuster?
nellie : It’s about the money
PatsyT : Nellie ahhh the $$ there in lies the trouble of it all
nellie : There’s a lot of moral indignation on both sides.
javaz : We’ve got to stop thinking “we vs them” when it comes to everyday life and take on the media and we have to start talking somehow to the other side. That’s what Obama did today, and we all must find a way to do that, but the question is how?
nellie : I think you’re right, kes
BigDogMom : nellie, no matter how paid off they are, look at Chris Dodd, he saw the light, the voters spoke
kesmarn : j’avaz, when I’ve tried to engage the right in discussion, I find the main problem is that each side often quite honestly believes the other side is morally bankrupt…even depraved! It sure is a conversation killer
nellie : They’re bought, BDM
BigDogMom : The Dems need to get some balls, excuse me for saying this, but they need follow O’s example…
AdLib : javaz, I think we first have to accept that there is maybe 20% – 30% of voters who will never vote for a Dem or support a policy that comes from a Dem. That said, if we focus not on attacking the Repub followers but on policies that benefit Americans, we can hopefully attract whoever is wiolling to put principle over partisanship.
kesmarn : AdLib, winning back control from a Repub majority has not always historically been an easy thing, though. Then again, I don’t think the Dems are morally depraved enough to use the filibuster the way the Repubs have, either.
PatsyT : BDM CM has a great point there and I love how Obama is willing to re-calibrate and grow in the posistion
BigDogMom : Adlib, at this point in time, we need to reverse the damage that has been done to us, so nuke away I say
javaz : We and by we, I mean you and me, we need to somehow end this ‘right vs left’ thing in the country, because we’re all angry with our dysfunctional gov’t and we need to somehow engage those that disagree, and find a way to work together.
AdLib : kes, I think there is a great argument to be made for nuking the filibuster, whether Dems are in the majority or minority. First, it restores some democracy to the Senate, gets rid of the tyranny of the minority. Second, if Repubs have the majority and are fucking up the country, more reason for the Dems to win back control and reverse things. The filibuster anchors us close to the status quo and at this point in history, we need to be able to change substantially or forever descend.
PatsyT : Well AdLib don’t get me started on CA – but you really can see how NOT to operate by looking west !
nellie : forever
BigDogMom : But nellie, how long can they go on like this with out it effecting them in the long run
nellie : They just Dont. Care.
nellie : What they say
nellie : What they think
BigDogMom : Patsy, like Chris Matthews says,”he’s learning as he goes and learning it well”
nellie : They don’t care about people
nellie : Speaking of CA, the Governator is about to veto single payer health care for the THRID time. That’s the GOP for you.
PatsyT : Filo or no Filo -I like how Obama is forgeing ahead no matter what they toss in his way. He is getting better and better at this.
AdLib : Patsy, exactly. This last budget crisis in CA and all the unfair cuts came because of a small minority dictating terms of extortion. Super majorities are as undemocratic as it gets.
javaz : BDM, they don’t necessarily need to be first, but they need to hit back and hit back hard. We need to form our own teaparty but we need a different name.
BigDogMom : Adlib/javaz, I think that’s the strategy, we will be seeing a lot more of him
kesmarn : Will there be any point down the road, when the Dems are in the minority again and will wish the filibuster had not gone away? Just a theoretical ?, I really don’t know…
AdLib : javaz, totally agree, the Dems and especially Obama need to make a sustained public campaign but at the same time they need to get rid of the filibuster.
BigDogMom : The Dems need to be in every news camera mans face, and get there first before the Repugs
PatsyT : Yes AdLib dump the Filo That is what is wrong with CA They can just look here and see that super majority crap fails all over the place
AdLib : Think of all the meaningful change that could happen with a 51 vote threshhold in the Senate.
javaz : AdLib, the Democrats need to take control of the media and when the Republicans hit, the Democrats need to hit back and that hasn’t happened in this admin until today.
kesmarn : Slightly O/T, but not entirely: what do people make of that 94% “A” grade people gave Obama’s first year on the Fox O’Reilly Poll? I think you posted that one, j’avaz.
AdLib : Folks, with the filibuster gone, the floodgates open. Pull that thread and the whole GOP strategy unravels.
javaz : Oh man, the first time that I get to do this thing, and b’ito leaves – good night b’ito.
AdLib : I think there needs to be a three pronged strategy. Push the positives of HCR, keep attacking the Repubs for denying Americans reform and coverage and work to nuke the filibuster.
kesmarn : Seriously, b’ito, have a good night’s sleep!
Khirad : Nite bito.
BigDogMom : Night bit.
AdLib : Bye bito!
nellie : Nite bito
nellie : Has either snowe or collins voted for ANYTHING dem legislation this year? I don’t think they have.
PatsyT : nighty night Bito..
Khirad : By the way, how is the filibuster majority number changed – and can you imagine when it had to be 67?!
kesmarn : Hey, b’ito, no fair leaving the party when I show up!
BigDogMom : When O and the Dems make it a fiscal choice, it is to their advantage, it boxes the Repuglies into a corner once again. This tune of no will eventually get tiresom even to their base
PatsyT : Javez, he let the banks recover to help the 401Ks and now they have to pony up- I think it can be put to the public that way and they would go for it.
AdLib : nellie, they have voted No to all plans with public options.
bitohistory : missed my nap today, having too much fun here! so Nitie, nite all
javaz : Nellie, Pelosi has said that she’s going to take away the anti-trust for insurance companies and that will help as it will open them up to regulation.
Khirad : Obama made a good point on stimulus. On individual issues people like them. But as a whole don’t. Make the GOP filibuster individual issues one by one?
nellie : snowe and collins have voted NO on everything
AdLib : 59 votes and 2 Repubs who would be in a lot of trouble by voting against it, Snowe and Collins.
PatsyT : I like when they make it a fiscal choice and International competive issue on HCR That is one of the ways Obama can box them into a corner
nellie : 59 votes
BigDogMom : @javaz, I think from today forward O will be after Wall Street/Banks/Cor ps…he has to go after them, it for the good of the party and nation
AdLib : nellie, if a bill had only consumer protections, who could oppose it…aside from the No Party?
nellie : Terrible for the dems in the fall
nellie : And the GOP will call it a victory
nellie : I think if they start over it will never pass
AdLib : Sometimes, you have to stop throwing good money after bad. If Congress can’t find a way to approve the current bill in the next month, they need to quickly start over by simply breaking out the provisions that can pass and set a groundwork for a 2nd bill that will provide Medicare for All.
javaz : That’s true, Patsy, it is only his 1st year, and what a year. It’s going to take time to get us out of this, but what I am angry about is that Wall Street and the bankers and mortgage lenders, they get away with causing the crash, and not only that, but bailed out, and then we all get to see the bonuses.
nellie : Then lets’ take care of senate rules — and fix other parts of the bill
nellie : But in the meantime — let’s get people some coverage.
AdLib : but the process doesn’t allow for what we would like done to be done.
nellie : true — but people need coverage now. They’ll never get those things fixed by starting from scratch.
AdLib : nellie, they can only deal with financial provisions in reconciliation, things like the anti-abortion stuff and other things can’t happen there.
kesmarn : Hey, b’ito! Thing is, I’m never late for work, but everything else is chaos unlimited.
PatsyT : Obama had to start somewhere This is still just the first year
BigDogMom : kes, no one said it would be easy.
kesmarn : Hola, Patsy, AdLib!
nellie : I’d like to see them do the fixes in reconciliation — things that would make the Senate bill ok. And then pass the senate bill.
bitohistory : Just like an RN…late hey k’es
PatsyT : Hi Kesmarn
javaz : From what I’ve learned about Rahm, his hands are dirty due to his affiliation with FreddieMac, and I don’t get why Obama refused the request to examine Rahm’s perfidy.
kesmarn : BDM, good to be here. It’s not fun “out there!”
AdLib : Hey Kes!
nellie : BDM == check it out. He’s working for the insurance industry
AdLib : javaz, unless they can somehow rescue the current HCR bills, my proposition for starting over is one bill with all of the consumer protections for a 60 vote majority, that sets the structure for a second bill to follow that can be Medicare For All and passed with 51 votes through reconciliation.
kesmarn : Hey, nellie!
BigDogMom : Hey kes
bitohistory : Maxine is too strident for many
nellie : Hi kes!
BigDogMom : Oh poopy! He’s the one that got the base going, plus some
PatsyT : Rahm should maybe stick to dancing Maxine Waters great Idea ! Or how about Alan Greyson
kesmarn : Late for the most complicated reasons, but this isn’t the time/place to explain! Hello, all.
nellie : Daschel is a lobbyist for insurance now
BigDogMom : We need Tom Dashel
nellie : They should have hired Maxine Waters instead.
Khirad : I don’t get it. Rahm was supposed to be oh so scary our “hammer”, but just turned out to be a tepid DLCer.
bitohistory : Rham got a majority of dems to do anything in unison? master cat header?
AdLib : This failed approach including the backroom deals with the Insurance Corps. was all Rahm’s plan.
BigDogMom : I think Rahms days are numbered, he will back out due to family stuff
javaz : The senate bill is not going to be much help for KQ and people with pre-existing conditions, since there are age limits. 19 years old and younger will be forced to have coverage from the Senate bill and that leaves far too many people without health care. I do hope they take out the mandatory penalty and turning that over to the IRS for penalties. That was never a good thing.
nellie : He has failed the country
nellie : He has failed the president
AdLib : Get rid of Rahm. What good has he done?
Khirad : Well, he came to it different this year. And it was beautiful to see him expose their BS.
BigDogMom : O overide Rahm on this one
AdLib : Yes! Rahm needs to go and the filibuster needs to be nuked.
BigDogMom : Patsy…this was the Indie 500, the Daytona 500 and, and…
nellie : Rahm needs to go
AdLib : Emanuel.
nellie : he house has passed FOUR bills that are just sitting idle in the senate
AdLib : But Blue Dogs don’t want a public option, nor did Rahm Emanual.
bitohistory : Yes,nellie the senate-is the problem
PatsyT : Hey Khirad Today Obama won the Indy 500 !
BigDogMom : Khirad, very strategic on O’s part, Repuglies are regretting it now…this is major damage
nellie : People in MA want a public option — polling showed that
AdLib : Khirad, he did this last year as well so I think it was on the schedule and prepped for some time.
nellie : javaz — I don’t think we disagree. I’m using health care as an example of not doing the people’s business
nellie : But they need to see revisions from the senate
Khirad : How long was today’s counterattack planned and prepared for? This was strategic neutering and a play to the indie.
AdLib : Kill the Fil!!!
javaz : It wasn’t about health care, imho, but it was about Congress – the Dems and Repubs not working together for change, and Brown promised them that he would not toe the GOP line but reach across the aisle to work with the Democrats. At least, that’s what I thought from reading articles about it.
nellie : I do believe the House will pass the senate bill
nellie : The senate is the problem
AdLib : Hey Khirad!
AdLib : Nellie, this is the question. Can Dems do what they usually don’t, not get scared and run when faced with a threat but stand firm and more resolved?
bitohistory : Khd, shape up, dog!
BigDogMom : The Dems have no choice but to follow suit, O has set the standard now
PatsyT : BDM no kidding and it was not hyped at all. Very Clever on Obama’s part.
AdLib : BDM, I think today was positive but until we see Obama pounding on Sen Dems and getting results, it’s a long road from here.
BigDogMom : javaz, what worked?
nellie : They may try to take a step back, but the momentum is not with stepping back.
Khirad : Menendez has a cute, intelligent daughter… carry on.
javaz : Oh wow, it worked!
BigDogMom : Patsy, today was a very important day, a turning point
AdLib : But the Dems in Congress responded by saying, “Let’s take a breath” and “Let’s step back”. They were not re-energized to pass HCR. Hopefully Obama has reignited that.
nellie : That’s what the polls show
javaz : I disagree, Nellie.
nellie : what I mean is, the protest vote puts congress on notice. they have to realize that they need to pass health care. that’s what the MA vote was about
BigDogMom : O has set the Dem agenda, we will see him and the Dems constantly…
bitohistory : Sen. Menendez has a good platform going for elections.
AdLib : Nellie: Why can’t there continue to be protest votes in November?
PatsyT : Things are turning faster then ever – what a difference a day makes -has never been more true.
AdLib : Obama needs to be unrelenting and in the MSM constantly, he needs to pull an FDR and be omnipresent, pushing his agenda…until it is passed!
BigDogMom : Adlib, yes
bitohistory : BDM that is why I said now. It is a long time before elections
nellie : MA was a protest vote against congress — according to the polls.
BigDogMom : The Dems will follow O’s lead, and will make sure they are getting face time on MSM…
AdLib : Look at MA, GOTV was not effective against demoralized Dems. Isn’t the need to energize Dems behind Obama and his SOTU agenda the post important, after passing HCR?
PatsyT : I see how they are turning this anti incumbent thing to the dem advantage
bitohistory : not to sound like a record it is always GOTV
AdLib : I think Dems have 3 months to pass meaningful legislation, then we’re deep into election year and it will be hard to get anything done.
BigDogMom : bito, that can change after today
Kalima : Where is FlyingLoutus, I so enjoyed the laugh last week. See you later.
BigDogMom : Dems know now that they have to come out swinging, the will need to pass things and fight hard for them
bitohistory : There is still a strong anti incumbant sound right now,
PatsyT : It helps that he puts out the challenge If you have a beater way of doing this (health care)
AdLib : Nellie: I agree passing nothing isn’t safe but for Congresspeople, they believe things like that.
nellie : I don’t think passing nothing is safe at this point.
BigDogMom : O is no match for the Repuglies, the match today was 240 against 1 and O won the match
nellie : Making the GOP look like fools isn’t going to get legislation passed, though. It might help in November
AdLib : Election season is fast approaching, I’m concerned that the Dems in the Senate would rather play it safe and pass nothing.
PatsyT : My crystal ball says that we have serious President that they can not hold back no matter how much they may try – He will make them (Repubs) look like fools if they keep it up.
Kalima : It will hurt them in the end, plus they also have no new ideas to improve on anything Obama has been trying to push.
bitohistory : Listening to the spin from the R’s after the “meeting”. they are still the party of NO
BigDogMom : This may turn some indies away from them, it’s hard to tell how this is going to play out in the media…
AdLib : Dems in The Senate have fought reconciliation throughout, will they really agree to it now?
AdLib : Will the public turn on the GOP harder for continuing to say “no” or will the antigov sentiment keep helping them?
Kalima : The Repugs will stay Repugs, they have no idea how to even spell the word yes, especially to the President.
bitohistory : agree with mom!
PatsyT : I think he strengthened the dem posistion all around
nellie : that’s whit
nellie : And the GOP won’t change a white
nellie : Then the House will pass the senate bill
nellie : I think the changes the House wants will go through reconciliation in the senate
BigDogMom : Repugs will still say no, blue dogs will piss and moan, but will follow
Kalima : Have fun everyone while I’m slogging away here.
AdLib : OKAY, LET’S BEGIN! IN LIGHT OF THE SOTU ADDRESS AND PRES. OBAMA’S DEBATE WITH REPUBLICANS TODAY, HOW DO YOU THINK THINGS WILL ACTUALLY PLAY OUT? WILL ANY REPUBS WORK WITH DEMS? WILL OBAMA REALLY FIGHT WITH CONGRESS TO GET HIS NNOUNCED AGENDA PASSED? WILL IT BE COMPROMISE WITH BLUE DOGS TO GUT BILLS? DEADLOCK? WHAT DO YOU SEE IN YOUR CRYSTAL BALL?
PatsyT : Yes BDM CM was behaving
bitohistory : mSNBC is re-running it now
nellie : it means hi folks
nellie : yes
BigDogMom : Just watched it, very good commentary, even Chris Matthews was good
bitohistory : nellie , can I say that in public?
PatsyT : They had a 2 hour special on MSNBC about it
BigDogMom : Would anyone else like some tea?
PatsyT : Bito you are welcome, that one was under the radar …
AdLib : No sugar in mine!
BigDogMom : teas ready, be back
bitohistory : Patsy , just one more time. Thanks for the links today!!
nellie : bito, say “boa noite, gente!”
BigDogMom : bito, what would you like to say?
AdLib : Howdy!!!
PatsyT : Hi everyone
bitohistory : I don’t want to say “hi”
BigDogMom : Going to make a cup of tea, be back
AdLib : Hey, just heading around The Planet to round folks up.
BigDogMom : Adlib, is it time?
AdLib : Welcome to Vox Populi! Please say “Hi” when you arrive!
AdLib is online.