Vox Populi – 12 -11-09
- AdLib : THAT’S ALL FOR VOX POPULI BUT WE”RE MOVING OVER TO THE POST, PLEASE JOIN US THERE! HERE’S THE LINK AGAIN: «link»
Bernard Marx : night all
nellie : Night all!
Bernard Marx : Bigotry IS stupid
escribacat : Night john boy
BigDogMom : night kesmarn…night jim bob, night grandpa….night all!!!
nellie : Bigotry makes people stupid.
AdLib : boomer: I totally understand, it is almost impossible to penetrate that kind of ignorance.
boomer1949 : Over? Bummer…
escribacat : Gnight k
AdLib : Night kesmarn!
boomer1949 : AdLib…Ignoranc e?Racism? I grew up in a family where the “N” word was tossed around at SUNDAY supper like a football. Then, when I told everyone they couldn’t talk that way in front of my kids? Oh my GAWD…circle the wagons my friend,,,I was the ENEMY!
AdLib : Khirad, very pleased that you like it. Next Friday, we’re back at it again!
BigDogMom : Thanks AdLib – another wonderful Friday night
kesmarn : Must take my leave, dear friends. Early meeting tomorrow…yuck!
BigDogMom : Passengers please form a line, no pushing, please remove all personal belongings from your overhead compartment…th ank you for flying Planet POV
bitohistory : k’ersmarn, we will talk, i’ slow
Khirad : Aww, already?
nellie : Thanks, AdLib — another fun session!
escribacat : Thanks Adlib
AdLib : OKAY FELLOW PLANETARIANS, OUR EVENT IS ENDING! THANK YOU ALL FOR A VERY STIMULATING AND SUCCESSFUL SESSION OF VOX POPULI! WE CAN CONTINUE THE DISCUSSIONS AT THE RELATED POST WHICH YOU CAN GO TO THROUGH THIS LINK: «link»
kesmarn : I think I get your point, now, b’ito!
BigDogMom : AdLib, that’s what I was trying to say, you stated it much better than I, they were just scared, this is all new to them…
escribacat : Adlib…true.
bitohistory : Kersman, from the book whats wrong with kansas?-? and doing union work
Khirad : Oh, BDM, no, I don’t have that bravery, you win! Agree on homework e’cat. I have no patience, you don’t have to be up on every new thing per 24 cable news. But by the time that Oct-Nov rolls around and they’re undecided? Really?
KQuark : bito I think those people vote on image more than reality.
FeedUp : Bito, yes how does a staunch repub feel know if they aren’t working now, inquiring minds want to know
AdLib : BDM: We should have a discussion on racism, it is literally not a black and white issue. There are people out there who are very kind people and don’t hate but are a bit ignorant and take for granted white people are better than black people. They would never be rude or insulting to a black person but in their mind, they would not think of them as equals.
escribacat : Repuggly neighborhood. LOL
kesmarn : Please elaborate, my friend b’ito!
escribacat : Swing voters are the types who procrastinate on their homework. Deciding who to vote for is an unpleasant chore.
nellie : I guess both are true. Bigotry prevents you from seeing the truth for what it is. It leads you to ignore critical thinking and evidence, leads you to make really bad decisions based on erroneous beliefs — makes you act stupid.
BigDogMom : Try going door to door in a Repuggly neighborhood…n ot the hood
bitohistory : Kesmarn , the ones that vote only pricipal and not the wallet get me
Khirad : bito: I don’t know if I can ever do that again… data entry for me.
AdLib : nellie: I see it the other way around, ignorance breeds racism.
BigDogMom : AdLib – They may not be outwardly predudice, they have never experience this before
KQuark : good analogy kes.
nellie : Well, bigotry makes people really stupid.
kesmarn : The swing voters who get on my nerves are the ones who vote only with the wallet. Not on principle.
BigDogMom : I’m with nellie and khirad on swing voters, most indies where for Obama, not the GOP
bitohistory : Khirad oh the phone banking!
AdLib : BDM: I agree, they were prejudiced against a black man being president. Is that an intelligent thing, to think that the tone of color on someone’s skin makes them more or less qualified to be president? Even though they knew the white man in office was a total failure, white is better? Not intelligent, I’ll argue.
KQuark : Think about it. It took FDR and WWII to get out of the GD. People have no perspective today. Obama started out with many more problems than FDR.
boomer1949 : AdLib – BDM is correct, I was being flippent.
nellie : A swing voter is someone who votes dem sometimes, votes gop sometimes, depending on the issues. I don’t think that’s the same as someone who’s perpetually confused.
Khirad : Doing phonebank canvassing, I came across one or two true independents, really up on the issues, truly in the middle. Most of the time though, I think they just go with the flow. Little respect for that. I don’t care if they’re “tricked”, let’s just do it better, they deserve it. Is that elitist?
kesmarn : KQ. Right. Funny how there’s a double standard. Dems are supposed to act like adults. Repubs…well, boys will be boys…
BigDogMom : AdLib – They were scared of a Black Man
boomer1949 : AdLib…swing voter can’t even decide what brand of tp to buy.
AdLib : escrib: Hard to not pay attention when you lose 70% of your retirement money and possibly your job and house or at least see people around you that are.
nellie : e’cat — that, too
KQuark : kes yup but if he made one cohesive sentence it was hailed as great
bitohistory : KQ, started with nixon for me
boomer1949 : bito…no edit button dear…you’re at the mercy of your fingers.
nellie : That’s not how I define “swing voter” To me a swing voter is someone who can be persuaded, not someone who can’t think
escribacat : Adlib…they might be intelligent, they’re just not paying attention
BigDogMom : kq – I think the countries still in shock and wants something done NOW
FeedUp : KQ, so true
KQuark : Bush broke the last bit of trust people had in government.
AdLib : nellie: Here’s my proposition, anyone who was a Swing Voter in 2008 was not the sharpest tool in the shed because they had a choice between voting for more of the same of the worst 8 years in our living history or change. And they had a lot of trouble making up their minds. That’s not my definition of intelligent.
nellie : LOL bito!
bitohistory : Where is my edit button?
FeedUp : It is gonna take awhile to turn the boat around, shipping almost all the mfg out of the country, the war, and finacial collapse…. what a gift to Obama
bitohistory : luntz is a piece of somethine
Khirad : LOL @ Luntz the putz comment. Btw, all this talk of Bush, do we believe that poll? 46% Reaallllly?!
nellie : Very hard to know what kind of voter those people are — self selection is not a good statistical method
nellie : I think those are not random samples
AdLib : Luntz is a real piece of work but he doesn’t put those groups together for all the networks.
escribacat : That’s what they kept saying about Palin after debate ..glitch..me too
kesmarn : KQ, yeah, we misunderestimate d Bush, to our sorrow…
KQuark : Ironically Obama’s hardest thing to overcome are peoples high expectations of him.
BigDogMom : Sorry – got a little glich ok now
bitohistory : Hey boomer.
nellie : AdLib — you can’t call any group cobbled together by Frank Luntz representative of anything objective…
AdLib : Hi BDM, what’s up?
escribacat : KQ EXACTLY!!
KQuark : W’s whole success was people’s low expectations of him.
Khirad : Yeah KQuark, they somehow think that someone just like them could run a country. I’m with Sarah Vowell, I do NOT want the guy I have a beer with to be my prez!
BigDogMom : Hello, is this thing on?
boomer1949 : Hi ya bito!!
escribacat : Me too
nellie : Now I’m lost, lol
AdLib : Bye Boomer and thanks!
bitohistory : Nellie tried that and she still said no. lol
FeedUp : Dubya was a prop!
nellie : Those are not what I would call swing voters
escribacat : Nellie, I do like working on the Disgruntled Dem over on HP
AdLib : nellie: I think Swing Voters are idiots. Have you seen these nitwits interviewed after debates? How can anyone be in the midst of a possible depression and be undecided if they want more of it via McCain? Idiots.
kesmarn : The scary swing voters are the ones who thought Sarah was a good substitute for Hillary. Both wear skirts…ugh…n o difference….
KQuark : But the worst voter of all is the guy I want to have a beer with voter.
nellie : Hone up your argument — make them swing your way!
escribacat : What about Adlib’s knees???
boomer1949 : See? Even old goats can’t project well. Just sayin’ I’m still and y’all are way cool. Especially AdLib…knees and all.
escribacat : Feedup true
FeedUp : Nothing like a bad recession to bring out the swing voters
BigDogMom : e’cat – oh good, my sister-in-law looks good in Kaki
escribacat : Nellie…good-so unding arguemnt works just as well.
nellie : I like people who can be persuaded.
AdLib : nellie: Exactly, the town halls were staged and Swing Voters are so thick, they just nodded their heads with the teabaggers…onc e they pulled their heads out of the pork rinds bag.
KQuark : AdLib I’m with you if you’re a swing voter between Repub and Dem you must be brain dead.
nellie : You have to have a good argument
nellie : I like swing voters! They can be persuaded.
escribacat : BDM. Send them first
bitohistory : end the war re instate the draft!
BigDogMom : Adlib – can we send those who watch Faux news there too?
escribacat : Adlib,,,they’ll just hide.
kesmarn : FeedUp, true. It’s the climate change and evolution kinda science that really spooks ’em.
nellie : BDM — good for you!
AdLib : I think COngress should pass a law that drafts all Swing Voters into the army and put them on the front line in Afghanistan. Maybe they’ll get an opinion then.
bitohistory : AdLib they knew no facts
boomer1949 : AdLib…”brough t to our knees..and not in a good way” lol!!
FeedUp : keman, if it lines their pocket then it is fine
nellie : Oy vay
BigDogMom : I educate my sister whether they want it or not, I tell them that they love me so they have to listen
escribacat : Nellie, her husband (my bro) listens to Limbaugh and rants all night long
nellie : Paid for by insurance lobbies
nellie : Town halls were statged
AdLib : People are for HC reform now but during the toen halls, it went upside down.
kesmarn : FeedUp, science scares Repubs…
nellie : I bet if she had some real facts at her disposal, she’ appreciate it
escribacat : My sister in law is a swing voter…she never has a frigging clue what is going on.
nellie : I think people are tired now, looking for another way to deal with each other
escribacat : Adlib….LOL!!!
nellie : All they have is fear and anger, so they pile it on
FeedUp : the repubs have taken us back to the dark ages, we no longer are the pioneers in r and d,
AdLib : escrib, sorry!
bitohistory : Pass hc and GOTV
nellie : AdLib — I think people are being goaded and baited. By media and by the GOP leadership
BigDogMom : I keep hearing 60% for
AdLib : excrib and BDM…my training as an Admin is hard to put aside sometimes. Let me put it this way, Swing Voters are a dead branch on the tree of evolution.
escribacat : BDM…depending on how the poll is phrased
BigDogMom : AdLib – put when polled, the people want healthcare now
KQuark : AdLib Republicans have successfully divided the nation to win a few elections.
nellie : Night boomer!
AdLib : Night Boomer!
escribacat : and old goat having a hoot, eh?
BigDogMom : aDliB – too polite
escribacat : Adlib…you are correct. and you are being polite.
boomer1949 : EVERYONe..this is a hoot…even if I’m an old goat, up way past my bedtime EST, on a Friday night in a cold dreary Midwest. Way cool!!!
escribacat : ew
BigDogMom : on ol’huck there
escribacat : Chucklberry LOL !!!!
AdLib : BDM: I think it’s a dichotomy. On one hand, the voters are tired of partisanship. On the other hand, attack ads and fear mongering work. I mean, McCain did get 46% of the vote even with Palin as his VP. And people turned against health care reform this summer when the loonies took over the town hall. Americans are not…consistent .
FeedUp : it is speed posting/blogging
nellie : Chuckleberry — sorry couldn’t resist
escribacat : .LOL. going down what?
BigDogMom : e’cat – Chuck’s going down with Huckleberry there
bitohistory : Fun too you read everyone!!!
escribacat : typos are allowed
BigDogMom : bito – good to see you, it takes practice..but I’m getting the hang of it
FeedUp : bito, u r fine here
nellie : Hey bito!
kesmarn : Hey, b’ito. Good to see you!
Bernard Marx : bitohistory – me too!
bitohistory : I am too slow witted and typer for this
BigDogMom : Adlib – well don’t you think their time has passed, the regular voter doen’t like all this ugliness
escribacat : I thought the repubs might run Chuck Norris for President
Bernard Marx : Nellie – I’d be interested to hear his argument too
FeedUp : No more actors or Divas
AdLib : threw…
escribacat : Adlib…that’s pathetic
boomer1949 : bdm-I got to the point wher I a) put my hand over my ears and wen nah,nah,nah or b) just unplugged the television.
nellie : Arnold… Don’t get me started….
AdLib : BDM – Yes, I do think the GOP is in a deeper hole but don’t forget, Californians through out Gray Davis and elected Ahnold because he was daring to balance the budget with a small car registration fee. Now, under Ahnold, California is on the verge of financial collapse. No, it’s not all his fault but HE’S JUST A FUCKING ACTOR!!! And he won! And screwed us.
nellie : He’s encouraging
kesmarn : nellie–oh–okay . I get it. I’d like to hear his rationale…
nellie : BDM– LOL
boomer1949 : AdLib, I know and it makes me ill to see wveryone try to sweep it under the rug and yet we still hear from the btards.
nellie : Not these days, Kes — days to come
FeedUp : LOL
escribacat : BDM LOL
kesmarn : nellie, seriously? He thinks these are good days economically?
escribacat : More homework, nellie!!
BigDogMom : feedup/boomer – hubby used to bring out his old decoder ring when bush spoke…
nellie : No — I’ll post something on him, too. Wow… making too much work for myself…. LOL
boomer1949 : BDM-sorry I can’t type fast enough.
escribacat : FeedupLOL
FeedUp : I used to get tied up in a know, when bush used to turn the page of his primary reader during a speech
escribacat : That sounds encouraging… is it just b/c of Obama or other reasons?
nellie : He’s very positive
Bernard Marx : I wish I shared Ravi Batra’s optimism
boomer1949 : Night TRP…
BigDogMom : Adlib – The GOP are digging their hole deeper with their antics now
nellie : Not according to mr batra
nellie : I was responding to a post from KQuark
kesmarn : nellie, more like New Gilded Age. The rich are in the saddle!
boomer1949 : e’cat — kinda’ like my oldest daughter.
FeedUp : Ok thanks
AdLib : boomer: That is our strongest campaign tool, 8 years of Bush and 6 years of GOP rule in DC, brought us to our knees…and not in a good way.
escribacat : I never even listened to Bush’s speeches. Couldn’t stand it.
nellie : Ravi Batra — economist. He calls it a new Golden Age
FeedUp : nellie, who predicts a progessive shift? did i lose something in translation?
BigDogMom : boomer – LOL, I thought I was in a nightmare
TheRarestPatriot : Night all….~…Poof~
Bernard Marx : Nite TRP
boomer1949 : AdLib…I for one wil never let anyone, anywhere forget about the 8 year of Bush and his cronies. Makes me sick to think we aer seduced and didn’t even get to enh=joy it.
AdLib : Night TRP!
nellie : TRP — good night!
escribacat : Night TRP
TheRarestPatriot : Loved this….really.. ..
BigDogMom : night TRP
nellie : He predicts a major shift toward progressive values in this country
TheRarestPatriot : I think I’m done….Pasture. ..great idea….LOL…Ni ght all
kesmarn : TRP, please drive thru a cow pasture on our behalf.
nellie : K — do you ever read that economist ravi batra?
BigDogMom : yes boss
AdLib : WE’RE A FEW MINUTES OVERTIME, WOULD YOU LIKE TO CONTINUE FOR ANOTHER TEN MINUTES OR HEAD OUT?
boomer1949 : FeedUp nor does she really know.
KQuark : The future generations of this country will be much more progressive mostly because there will be a huge demographic shift.
BigDogMom : AdLib/TRP – stop I can’t type and laugh at the same time
kesmarn : Double LOL, AdLib
AdLib : TRP: How can you tell when they’re muddy?
boomer1949 : AdLib..SP? OMG never in a million years. I knew she was trouble from the very beginning.
kesmarn : LOL, TRP!
escribacat : TRP LOL
nellie : e’cat that’s what I think
TheRarestPatriot : Adlib, I use them as mud flaps on my Prius…the locals don’t appreciate the irony,…LOL
escribacat : boomer…I think she’s one of those borderline personalities that doesn’t know when she’s lying any more
nellie : “Calculating” is a good word for our prez — in a good way
boomer1949 : Sister Sarah is evil. Period.
BigDogMom : Was it Barnard who said he was ‘calculating’? I think that’s was he is doing, this is a chess match for him and he knows he will loss some pieces along the way
AdLib : TRP: Did he leave any spare jowls in the closet?
TheRarestPatriot : Relocation is on my ‘MUST do’ list….Yes, Surrounded…
boomer1949 : AdLib–Ms. P? How can anyone not?
escribacat : TRP…you are surrounded
nellie : BDM — there was a great article in.. I don’t remember.. called “What Obama is up against” that dealt with the entrenched powers he must tiptoe around, and how difficult that is.
kesmarn : Deepest sympathies, TRP…
KQuark : Nixon started the derisive southern strategy though.
AdLib : No matter what any Dem’s complaints are, Pres. Obama is a smart man, a responsible man, a man who is trying to work with the system to change it and is not in the pockets of corporations because WE financed his campaign for the most part.
TheRarestPatriot : Agreed Bernard
boomer1949 : BGM-Probably! It’s very scary. I was always the black sheep. Would use the “N” word, told my father he could swear all he wanted when my kids weren’t around and nver in my house. OMG I’m still on everyone’s S-list!
escribacat : Para Sailin…LOL!!!
TheRarestPatriot : Let me let all of you in on a little shame secret I have and you’ll understand my mania and pain a bit more. I am as Liberal as they come…realistic ally….I currently live in Fred Thompson’s home town in Tennessee. Yeah,…I know….
kesmarn : Also heard her referred to as Para Sailin’ As in waaaay out there in space….
nellie : LOL, AdLIb!
escribacat : Bernard…yes, anti intellectualism seems a big part of their platform now
BigDogMom : AdLib – LOL
Bernard Marx : TRP – there was a time when repubs had solid intellectual foundations (even if I disagree with what those are), but Reagan marks the turning point – the anti-intellectua lism that has culminated in Palin today
BigDogMom : Adlib – I think Obama is trying to fight the good fight against those in power in Washington…
nellie : AdLib — that is such a good point. The GOP is even more extreme now than it was when those posters were created.
AdLib : Nellie: Actually, when I fill my pail with horse manure, I don’t bring my PALIN to the house.
escribacat : I couldn’t get that links to work. You will posst it later, nellie?
FeedUp : Right, doesn’t know or care
AdLib : nellie: Great idea, I think that truly is and will always be the best argument towards those dissing Obama. Remembering the Bush years and allowing them to return under and even more extremist and corporately controlled GOP.
BigDogMom : Feedup – Palin doesn’t even know how govt is run
nellie : Well it kind of relates, AdLIb — no matter how bad people try to make thing out to be, they PALE IN comparison to PALIN
TheRarestPatriot : When I see, think or imagine sister sarah, I see ALL that is wrong with our nation. In SO many ways. It really hurts. I mean, tere was a time when I personally thought of Mayors, Governors and Reps as solid, educated people….
kesmarn : Why do people stand all night in the rain to see her? Don’t get it!
FeedUp : Palin, I mean she doesn’t even care how government works
escribacat : I was going to say…did adlib post a new palin topic?
Bernard Marx : no not her own talk show – I can’t stand her voice!
BigDogMom : FeedUp – She’s more than just a phoney….she’s , she’s….augggh hh
bitohistory : But a real phoney
AdLib : BDM: Palin was just the butt of my joke, not a signal to begin talking about her. I hope!
nellie : I think she should have her own talk show
FeedUp : She is a phoney……..
nellie : AdLib — I’m going to revisit that in a post, I think. When HP was really on a roll
BigDogMom : Why does every thread make it’s way back to sister sarah?
escribacat : I admit I find her infinitely entertaining
nellie : hee hee
AdLib : nellie: the new link works, excellent link!
escribacat : Me too
nellie : Palin is my number one source of entertainment
BigDogMom : thanks nellie
escribacat : Nellie good ..
TheRarestPatriot : Oh god,…not Palin….please. …my poor heart can’t take it….LOL
boomer1949 : BDM-Dems in GOP clothing.
FeedUp : You learn alot watching C-span. How the system really works
nellie : I’ll paste it in an article — okay?
escribacat : Couldn’t get it …
AdLib : boomer: I can understanding having faith in religion, friends and family but in Sarah Palin?
nellie : I like that idea, FeedUP
nellie : Counterparts to Cato and Heritage
boomer1949 : Instant gratification… same as those who don’t enjoy sex. Ooops…sorry.
FeedUp : Yes, i did
BigDogMom : boomer – are we related? My hubby family sounds like yours.
nellie : Did someone mention think tanks
AdLib : nellie: just paste the direct link and it will show as “link”.
boomer1949 : AdLib..they took a huge swig of the Koo-Aide? AKA…they believe all of the tabloid faux news sppoon fed to them?
nellie : «link»
nellie : nope…
AdLib : boomer: Cheers to you, that’s not easy to be the one cutting against the Repub grain in a family.
escribacat : How come we have to go through hell just to get health care reform?
nellie : <a href=”«link» w.huffingtonpost .com/arianna-huf fington/huffpost s-the-bush-year_ b_75722.html” target=”_blank “>The Bush Years</a>
KQuark : escribacat we made one but like any Dem endeavor it’s imploding out of impatience and money.
TheRarestPatriot : Same here, Boomer…came from REAL Republican stock…now you see why I am an outcast….
escribacat : I think PTSD is right…we look at Canada and Europe
escribacat : okay
nellie : I’ll post a link if I can figure out how to do it.
Bernard Marx : Adlib. Yep, I think voter apathy is the biggest worry from people’s dashed hopes
nellie : That was something HP did that was actually great.
BigDogMom : Did anyone see Robin William, that’s what he said in his monlogue – PTSD like TRP
escribacat : yes
nellie : The bush years posters?
boomer1949 : Voting GOP…I am the only one in my family who didn’t or ever did. OMG, I am so embarrassed to know I’m related to these people. Certainly wouldn’t choose them as friends much less family.
escribacat : Nellie…what’s that
escribacat : TRP…true.
nellie : I’ve actually started posting those HP Bush Years posters at HP when people start up with a lot of nonsense.
FeedUp : yes, the think tanks, Cato Insutitue etc. all for the corporations
AdLib : The problem wouldn’t be Dems voting for Palin or Romney or Huckabee (don’t count him out), it’s that they wouldn’t be donating to Obama, working and pushing and calling for him. The apathy of the spoiled brats could have a serious effect.
kesmarn : I was glad that Obama did a review of where we were a year ago when he intro’d the jobs bill. For the ones with short memories…
TheRarestPatriot : Well, think about it though. After SO many administrations. ..a lifetime for most of us here, raised our hopes and expectations…i t’s does sort of sound like we as a people suffer from PTSD or something like it..
nellie : I like your thinking e’cat
BigDogMom : nellie – we have constantly remind them what it was like with past admin, willful amnesia
nellie : Me either, K
escribacat : We need our own propaganda machine
KQuark : Look what base politics made of the GOP. I’m a progressive but I don’t want a party of purist.
bitohistory : lobbying has been here–long time, look at the # of front groups at scourcewatch.org . That is where the unknown money is at
escribacat : instead of for dems
nellie : So what’s to be done?
escribacat : Many times I voted against republicans….
nellie : I meant… I CAN’T forget
escribacat : Adlib…yes, it’s immaturity
Bernard Marx : Nellie – exactly lets not forget
nellie : I CAN
boomer1949 : Nellie…yuck. They sound impatient to me and with no wisdom to boot.
escribacat : Nellie…I have not
AdLib : escrib: I agree, these Dems are like spoiled brats who want everything and they want it now or ‘I hate you, you’re not my best friend anymore!”
nellie : have people forgotten where we were just one year ago?
escribacat : I was that way when I was younger. I remember turning against Jimmy b/c the Iranian students had made a fool of him.
TheRarestPatriot : When they Willie Horton Hickabee, those numbers will fall….LOL
KQuark : Most will come around and those that don’t might as well vote Republican. We need years of progress not one term.
escribacat : Bernard…exactl y. AStronomical expectations
nellie : Purists — people who can’t compromise or wait a realistic time period for things to get done
kesmarn : Huckabee??? After he pardoned that guy??
Bernard Marx : I think much of the problem comes when hope and idealism meet pragmatism and realism – many people feel disillusioned or cheated
TheRarestPatriot : Death to lobbyists or limit their influence in massive ways. I had always believed WE THE PEOPLE we all the lobbyists this nation needed…
escribacat : Some may stay home.
BigDogMom : But e’cat who will they really vote for?
escribacat : FeedUP …glad you clarified!!
boomer1949 : Someone explain Purists…
AdLib : Did you see the PPP poll out this week that has Huckabee 1% behind Obama in 2012. Granted a poll at this point is worthless but how could such a thing be possible?
FeedUp : meant some jail time for lobbying
escribacat : It’s the Instant Gratification crowd
escribacat : TRP Exactly
boomer1949 : Hi Bernard — glad you’re here.
escribacat : Nellie — I am too!
FeedUp : Yep, Big Fine and Some Jail
TheRarestPatriot : People (anymore) seem to get offended in the easiest ways. I think it’s a lack of perceived power. They had their feelings hurt and they’re taking they’re toys home and not coming back….’til next time.
escribacat : KQ I think you’re right. THey’re not reading HP
nellie : But what do we do with these “purists” as Keven calls them. I’ve been writing so many emails to radio stations and posting on AlterNet, Raw Story — I’m tired of the whining!
KQuark : Moderates voted Obama into the white house and they will vote him in again in 2012.
kesmarn : Hi, Bernard!
AdLib : Welcome Bernard!
escribacat : Yes, there are plenty Yanks on that site saying the same sort of stuff
boomer1949 : AdLib…my philosophy and solution for the entire mess is that LOBBYING SHOULD BE ILLEGAL period. The people we elect to represent should be required to do just that. Represent us. Regular folks like us should not have to compete with billion dollar companie, private jets, and any other perks.
BigDogMom : Oh, I get it now – I wish?
AdLib : nellie: I hope I’ve hit a nerve because the Dems like this have real nerve worth hitting.
escribacat : LOL
BigDogMom : Hey Bernard
kesmarn : Oh, well then, who cares what she thinks! )
nellie : Hey Bernard!
escribacat : Hi Bernard
Bernard Marx : Hi all,
escribacat : She was loving Obama from afar
escribacat : LOL
TheRarestPatriot : Oh boy am I ever Irish
escribacat : She’s Irish Irish
escribacat : She doesn’t vote
BigDogMom : e’cat – what’s being Irish have to do with it?
FeedUp : People want instant gratification
AdLib : I’ve repeatedly seen bloggers I know to be Dems claiming they may just stay home in 2012 because they’re unhappy Obama hasn’t done everything they want.
escribacat : This lass is Irish … .but… there are a thousand more over at HP where that sentiment came from.
TheRarestPatriot : Well, …hmmmmm….
nellie : AdLib, you hit a nerve with that one.
kesmarn : I just have to ask ’em. Who ARE you going to vote for?
BigDogMom : I don’t think they are pure Dems
escribacat : Allow me to clarify something: she is Irish
FeedUp : KQ, your right
AdLib : OUR FINAL TOPIC FOR THE EVENING, AS ONE OF OUR MEMBERS REPORTED TONIGHT, A POPULAR DEM BLOGGER AT ANOTHER SITE KNOWN FOR ITS UNUSUAL AROMA, QUIT THERE CLAIMING SHE NO LONGER CAN SUPPORT OBAMA. WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT ALL OF THESE “PURITY” DEMS WHO ARE NOW LINING UP ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE FENCE TO OPPOSE OBAMA BECAUSE HE ISN’T DOING EVERYTNING THEY WANT?
escribacat : TRP and Nellie…both right
TheRarestPatriot : Bye Kalima!
KQuark : Glas Steagall only covered banks and the Lehmans and AIGs would still have failed so we really needed something much broader.
Kalima : Oh, I’ll be back after this. escribacat, LOL.
nellie : THey just don’t report the truth any more
BigDogMom : FDR had the same problems as Obama is having, took him almost two terms to get close to what he wanted
nellie : TRP — I lay a lot of blame at the feet of our media
escribacat : KQ that govt plan looks pretty darn good to me.
TheRarestPatriot : Right, but like I have said for years: If we can’t get reform with someone like Barack in office, what in the hell kinda’ chance do stand at all…in our lifetimes? I just don’t know what, short of a revolution, is going to take back this nation from corporations.
kesmarn : G’Night, Kalima! You’re just too popular!
BigDogMom : Night Kalima, take care
nellie : Night Kalima! See you at Stupid O’Clock!
escribacat : Kalima….I’m SHOCKED
Kalima : Ok everyone, see you later. Every time I try to park my cheeks, the doorbell rings and no it’s not the postman.
escribacat : Nellie true
nellie : This isn’t FDR’s environment. There was possibility of a French style revolution!
kesmarn : boomer, my friend said that to a Repub who argued against health care and it totally silenced him!
escribacat : Adlib — those pigs are doing what they’re trained to do. That’s called SUCCESS in this country. They are admired.
boomer1949 : AdLib…image of the Koch brothers. Yuck.
BigDogMom : Adlib – did you see that the UK will be taxing bonus’, I think we need to do that
FeedUp : Where is FDR when u need him
TheRarestPatriot : Bravo Adlib….
TheRarestPatriot : Oh boomer,…you big softie. You’ll NEVER be allowed in the conservative clubhouse with talk like that!
AdLib : BDM: The only pressure is from the pigs at the top of these companies whao were and are about stuffing their pockets and fuck everyone else.
BigDogMom : bye cher
boomer1949 : Bye Cher…
boomer1949 : Okay, here is my two/three cents. Know one, adult or child, in this country should be without a warm bed to sleep in at night, enough food to allow them to sleep peacefully, OR adequate healthcare to make sure they stay healthy. It boils down to a moral and ethical issue. I went without healthcare for 12 months and it was damn scary. How does one think a little kid feels.?
AdLib : Night Cher!
TheRarestPatriot : Bye Cher,…honey is good for you….
KQuark : Night Cher
BigDogMom : Adlib – they are bowing to presure, Goldman is giving bonus’ in non-pref stock
kesmarn : B’bye, Cher!
escribacat : Gnight cher
nellie : Buy Cher! Good to talk w you!
escribacat : Nellie — yes.
Chernynkaya : Guys, sorry to say goodbye, but my honey just came in. I have enjoyed this time here immensely. See you soon.
nellie : We need Glas Steagall back
KQuark : Feds actually lose much oversight power.
nellie : AdLib — yep. that’s what they’re doing.
escribacat : I think some good old fashioned trust busting is in order.
TheRarestPatriot : No I realize that, boomer. My voice in my head says if something is hurting you, do something else…drastic if need be. Not everyone is fat like me either, but skinny folks sell me bon-bons….
AdLib : Saw the guy on Jon Stewart this week saying that the banks and Wall Street have gone right back to business as usual and are paying back the TARP mnoney just to be free of CEO salary caps that come with it.
nellie : I haven’t really looked at this bill either — and there is so much that needs to be done w the banks. What happened w the Fed? Is that decided yet?
KQuark : What’s weak AL what someone tells us is weak with consumer protection these regs are much better than we had.
BigDogMom : Boomer – The Finacial Consumer Protection Agency
Kalima : And the RW tries to discredit the Brit NHS, it might be old and decrepit but it still works.
boomer1949 : BDM — Wlizabeth Warren’s baby — where?
escribacat : ~bowing~
TheRarestPatriot : A rare and appreciated comment, cat
boomer1949 : RP, but, but not ALL of us are greedy. That’s the point.
AdLib : My concern here is that, coupling the Insurance Reform bill with the FInancial Reform bill, if these are too weak to work as well as they should, it may be decades before this is ever tried again and opponents will have a lot of ammunition to attack reform for not working.
FeedUp : To appease a few, while the masses suffer
KQuark : Take best parts of house and senate bill and you have good HC bill.
escribacat : I don’t know enough details on this to comment intelligently.
TheRarestPatriot : I am with Nellie. This patriot knows when bible thumping capitalism is dead and when a well defined Socialistic plan is needed. We did it to ourselves. Greed has forced us to consider Socialism.
BigDogMom : Adlib – is that Elizabeth Warren’s baby?
kesmarn : Hafta say this subject scares me…because I don’t like bad news. And I’m afraid I’m gonna find out just how totally Wall St. really does control congress. Don’t wanna look…
KQuark : oops link «link»
Chernynkaya : AdLib.No war not over–these are first salvos. But we are headed south on this and everyything. Don’t mean to stop the debate, but THE ONLY important legislation from here on out is Campaign finance reform. Every other pice of legislation is brought and sold.
boomer1949 : AdLib..absolutel y. My son in-law lost his job a year ago. However, my daughter is 2 qtrs away from her Masters (school system pays), yet they’re struggling. On the other had, my other daughter and son in-law live in the opposite end of our state. Get this…she’s a stay at home mom. Go Figure!
BigDogMom : nell, I’m getting close to where you are
AdLib : There is Consumer Protection in the bill but in essence, the banks will not be regulated by states.
KQuark : bdm that passed in house today.
escribacat : Nellie…LOL
escribacat : kq I don’t see a link…
nellie : This socialist is for nationalized banks — so it’s never enough regulation for me.
Kalima : I have another friend 41, can’t work because she is sick, I fear they will be left at the side of the road.
FeedUp : Question is which one should be done first. Obama get out a daily to do list. I am tired of seeing the usa go down the tubes.
BigDogMom : What has happened to the Financial Consumer Protection, that’s what they were trying to save with that provision
KQuark : here’s the link to federal plan. You can even see what they get by state.
nellie : It’s complicated
TheRarestPatriot : LMAO…It’s all just a money shuffle and a game of musical chairs
AdLib : Echo..
AdLib : Sorry folks, not trying to be too negative but this topic dovetails with our previous topic, the coprporate control of the course of this nation.
nellie : ha ha
TheRarestPatriot : Finance reform…~blech~
TheRarestPatriot : Finance reform…~blech~
Chernynkaya : Know what? canada doesn’t want us unless we are emplyable and have some $. Checked into it.
nellie : Kalima — he needs a public option provision w a subsidy
TheRarestPatriot : They’ve successfully divided the people here, Nellie….We will never mobilize…if WE did, we’d probably just end up fighting Tea Baggers….
Kalima : Where does all this leave my friend, 43, unemployed, uninsured and sick
AdLib : ONTO OUR NEXT TOPIC, A FINANCIAL REGULATION BILL HAS BEEN PASSED IN THE HOUSE WITH SOME GOOD PROVISIONS. HOWEVER, DEMS AND REPUBS WHO HAVE TAKEN BIG SUMS FROM THE FINANCIAL INDUSTRY AND OPENLY THREATENED BY THE U.S. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, HAVE VOTED TO STRIP REGULATION OF DERIVATIVES FOR MANY ENTITIES AND NOT ALLOW STATES TO HAVE STRICTER GUIDELINES ON BANKS THAN THE FEDERAL ONES. HAVE WE WON THE BATTLE BUT LOST THE WAR ON FINANCIAL REFORMS?
escribacat : I know it’s what Obama was talking aobut in campaign
FeedUp : Yep, Germany has a system that works. Been there sat it with my own eyes.
escribacat : KQ…That what it seems like but i’m not clear on the Fed Empt Cafeteria Plan. What is it?
nellie : KQ — That’s right. It’s the same.
BigDogMom : We can’t get out of our own way at times
KQuark : I see little difference between PO and Federal Employees cafeteria plan with non-profit choice.
escribacat : nellie…true. Europeans don’t have this hatred of govt
nellie : They’ve already had their REAL revolutions in Europe. We’re still working on ours.
TheRarestPatriot : I just got my 1st passport 3 months ago…I am serious about leaving if 2010 goes badly or 2012 goes to someone like,..gulp…Pa lin….
AdLib : boomer: and the sad thing is that by the time the kids now are adults, they won’t likely be in a position to indulge that “me-me-me” mindset.
FeedUp : Cher, u r right… No nonesense about HC in Europe they don’t argue about it for thirty years.
escribacat : KQ I agree
kesmarn : KQ, the 55 buy in needs to be at the right price, though, no?
nellie : Agreed KQ — although I think the PO is a needed fail safe for people under 55.
boomer1949 : AdLib…my grand kids are 8, 5, and 3. Then I have my other kid, married, childless with 18-25 Kindergartners every year. Kimmers is not yet 30, yet her “kid” weigh heavily on her mind. I hear you dear, but it was soo much different when my two girls came up. Today our society is more “me, me, me”
Chernynkaya : Adlib– I have only one son and two step daughters. My son is 30, and I’ve told him to leave the country–move to Europe/CAnada.I love him. I want him to have a better life than here.
KQuark : The hc bill is fine as long as the 55 buy into mc stays in tact. Fastest way to virtual single payer. PO always a bandaid.
escribacat : The guy who owned the game site figured it out.
nellie : We don’t know what we’re getting yet — and we don’t know what he’s doing behind the scenes
escribacat : It was some kind of site with games on it. People would click something that said “Do you want a free gift card for K mart?” and it would take them through some routine that ended up with them signing some anti reform letter and sending it.
nellie : Now – I have to stick up for Harry
kesmarn : Agree, FeedUp. Reid lacks “fire in the belly.”
nellie : I like that TRP
TheRarestPatriot : Football season, baseball season…campaig n season! Hmmm…think of the marketing!
AdLib : Cher: your point is solid. Instead of our waiting to see what comes out, we need to be coming at the Dems now to demand what we need in that bill.
BigDogMom : e’cat – tell us more, I don’t get msnbc
FeedUp : Reid is not a strong leader Boehner has him beat there
nellie : LOL ecat
escribacat : ….it was a scam that tricked people into sending letters to congressmen
escribacat : Rachel Maddow had a guy on tonight who discovered an automatic anti-health reform letter generator.
AdLib : If the Dems really wanted a good bill no matter what, why isn’t Reid telling them that they either vote for cloture or lose all funding and chairmanships from the party?
escribacat : Cher, Yes, keep writing letters.
nellie : Cher — I agree
kesmarn : I would love to see time limits on campaigns, too. It’s not only expensive to campaign for two years; it bores the population into a coma.
TheRarestPatriot : agreed Nellie
Chernynkaya : Honestly, I think NOW is the time to put the greatest pressure on Congress–NOW. It’s a new tipping point. Don’t let them fail at this. Make them pass something decent and build, ut let them know we are engaged.
BigDogMom : Adlib, that’s what scares me, it has become the norm
nellie : I’d love that — if the bill were a bad one
TheRarestPatriot : Frankly, it would shock and awe the world if The Boss vetoed the friggin’ bill on his desk and told them to get it right with a PO. Ahhh….dreams.. ..
AdLib : boomer: I have a 6 year old and I worry at the world she’s going to grow up in as the corporations grow larger and fewer and their ownership of our democracy becomes more accepted by the public.
escribacat : I think the Dems know this is the most important thing they’ve worked on their entire careers. They don’t want to blow it.
boomer1949 : AdLib…this is where BO must step in and take a stand.
nellie : TRP — campaign finance reform would solve a lot of our problems
BigDogMom : kesmarn…thanks , we needed that moment
boomer1949 : AdLib…I know. However, I’ve seen and heard it all. Not to mention a kid who stays up nights worrying about her students. It’s painful.
kesmarn : A moment of silence for health care reform?
TheRarestPatriot : I dunno, BigDogMom…afte r the Industrial Rev, we all just seemed to buy the dream…then they over priced it, regulated it and now they simply steal it away….I truly hate what our Republic has become. Don’t mean to ruffle feathers…I” m just SO very tired of corruption, hate, fear…etc, etc…
FeedUp : Term Limits don’t work. Re-elect someone new every four so it takes a while to build a relationsip with “k” st. Choke it off as much as possible
AdLib : Cher: I think the Dems are tunnelvisioned, they need to pass the bill and you remember how many, including the Obama Admin, were comfortable with no PO as long as the bill could pass. I’m concerned they will pass something, no matter how bad it is.
nellie : ecat — exactly
escribacat : Cher, the bill could be wildly unpopular even if it’s good. People don’t pay attention
nellie : Cher — they’re going to have to do some major pr when they campaign — I think they can handle it.
BigDogMom : I’m a little slow when it comes to glitches
kesmarn : I’m fine. Glitch-free.
Chernynkaya : AdLib– agree on that. but if the bill is wildly unpopular, it is still a disaster. Can’t they SEE THAT?! Can’t they see that the pub;lic will know if it stinks and punish them for it?
BigDogMom : What are we to do about the big corps running our lives and country
TheRarestPatriot : Fine here
boomer1949 : thank you nel.
nellie : yep
AdLib : No glitch here, everyone else okay?
AdLib : boomer: I was being sarcastic, ridiculing the “have it all” mentality of too many Americans. We’re on the same page.
escribacat : Anyone else just have a glitch?
nellie : BDM —
nellie : boomer — right again
AdLib : The Dems can’t end up without passing a bill, even if it’s going to be a disaster.
TheRarestPatriot : Oh god, …my new favorite is the lady holding her kid and telling her we have enough natural gas for like a hundred YEARS! That’s a long time she says as she starts counting with her kid. Of course, her GRANDCHILDREN will be plum run dry…but heck…
BigDogMom : nellie – I think you should trademark that remark – doing a HP
kesmarn : AdLib, I’ve seen those commercials. A tax on soda is a tax on the poor? Huh?? Didn’t Dubya enjoy his Cheetos, white bread and orange soda?
boomer1949 : AdLig…having it all only applies to a select few. The rest have been seduced into thinking they can have it all. That said, there are many who will never see the light of day, much less decent healthcare. My daughter teaches Kindergarten and has been doing so for 6 years. OMG the stories I could tell you. No food, money going for drugs, no annual visits to the doc. It’s sinful absolutely sinful. It’s great for those who can afford it, but innocent children? Give me a break.
nellie : I want to see what the bill looks like before I do an HP. The House bill is not bad.
AdLib : TRP: more like a Fingerin’ Slip but it was ironic indeed!
Chernynkaya : The question remains: Bad legislation –good for Dems anyway?
FeedUp : Yep, it is a process not an event
AdLib : Have you seen all the commercials by the food industry, the mom coming from her car with a pissed off look saying that “Washington” wants to make us pay more tax on our soda in times like these! Leave us alone!”
BigDogMom : Baby steps
TheRarestPatriot : wow Adlib whatta’ Freudian slip and SO appropriate!… We know you meant fat…but fate…?….Clas sic
nellie : ha ha
Chernynkaya : All th food reform is fine.Let’s do health care reform for now, OK. They can’t handle that, let alone the agra lobbies!
BigDogMom : I’ve already seen ads about taxing soda, not good, bought & paid for by big corps
kesmarn : Being in healthcare, gotta say the biggies are tobacco, sugar, alcohol and firearms!
nellie : I’ts all tied togehter — health care, big agra, big oil
nellie : Let’s tax coca cola for all its transgressions
TheRarestPatriot : YES – Nellie
nellie : Tax on soda — I like that idea
escribacat : TRP — agreed. tax on soda sounds good…other stsuff like that
nellie : Buying organic is expensive because the sector is so overregulated. Big agra does not like organic farming
AdLib : The only way to improve health in this nation is to regulate the amount of high fructose corn syrup, salt and fate that’s in our food supply. And what mega-corp food businesses would allow that to happen?
FeedUp : nellie, someone will cheat for a profit
BigDogMom : I would prefer to subsidise organic farms, encourage competition
boomer1949 : Sorry KQ…saw w=everyone said they hoped you feel better. OT, but what happened. I’m sure it can be related to Healthcare.
TheRarestPatriot : Well, obviously you can’t regulate eating, yet you can tax the snot out of bad food producers.
escribacat : Cher…your comment is pending approval…
Chernynkaya : AdLib– Fuck Reptilians by their bootstraps.
nellie : You can regulate ingredients, and you can allow organic food producers to operated un harrassed.
KQuark : hi guys. not feeling too bad tonight.
escribacat : Call me a socialist bot
TheRarestPatriot : I’m guilty of eating bad things…I know better, but buying organic and ‘healthy’ is over priced. They know this. Sort of like solar panels…keep ’em too expensive and oil rules the century.
escribacat : Nellie YEAH
escribacat : TRP — how can you legislate eating behavior?
nellie : I’m going to stand up and be a socialist!!!
BigDogMom : Well Personal Responsibility does mean taking care of yourself…stop eating crap
kesmarn : KQuark, how’re you doing? Have you been injured?
AdLib : KQUARK!!! WELCOME PAL!
escribacat : Hi KQ
AdLib : TRP: But I thought the point of being an American is being able to have it all. That “personal responsibility” stuff is just not American.
KQuark : Hi trying to type with one hand.
escribacat : Cher, we wouldn’t want anyone to say we’re being SOCIALISTS
nellie : Food democracy is one of my big issues
boomer1949 : It isn’t that hard and only requires COMMON SENSE. Any other approach is purely selfish and self-serving. Basically, they’re all on the take. Big Pharma owns them.
BigDogMom : TRP – I’m with your there, we could stop subsidising big agra corps and pay for half the healthcare
Chernynkaya : E-cat re subsidies. MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING TO (oops) do with interfering in private companies.so subsidies instead of forcing a co to change their pricing.
nellie : Hey K!
KQuark : 25 pages for 1/6 of the economy. I just don’t think so.
nellie : RarestPatriot — YES
AdLib : Cher: The giveaway to private insurance is the amendment presented that would allow private insurers to cap the amount any patient is eligible for.
TheRarestPatriot : I’m going to make a few enemies with this statement (I hope not), but…as long as the underlying cause of major health issues are addressed, like pumping high fructose corn syrup into our veins with everything we consume, not much is going to help healthcare.
Kalima : Sorry everyone, it’s gift giving time here and the phone and doorbell just won’t stop. I’ve lost my place.
escribacat : We may have a “majority” but we don’t
FeedUp : Yep, key phrase if they wanted to.
nellie : I like the training and community health center provisions — it’s that kind of thing that makes the bill long
escribacat : Yeah, but it wouldn’t pass
BigDogMom : This could really be a 25 page bill if they wanted it to be
FeedUp : AdLib, your idea sounds viable
boomer1949 : I work full time and have insurance. However, I just turned 60 and do not want to work until I have one foot (or two) in the grave. I have 2 adult kids and 3 granchildren. I’d go on welfare before I’d see my kids/grandkids suffer. Sorry, but we have a bunch of old goats with too many hands in their pockets to be obejective — unless of course it comes to their own families.
AdLib : Why can’t we just have a payroll tax that pays the premiums proportionately to salary and just do single payer? It’s so fucking simple.
escribacat : Cher…I don’t know
kesmarn : Hola, just got home. Gotta read for a while to find out what’s going on! I’ll lurk for a bit, OK?
FeedUp : First start getting rid of the Medicare Fraud, shut up the republicians
Chernynkaya : Can anyone explain this– if we get into Medicare, why is that a giveaway to pvt insurance?
BigDogMom : If they don’t do something that is for the people, none of them are going to be around for very long
escribacat : One idea I don’t like though is subsidies. Why don’t they put caps on premiums instead of subsidizing the high prices of the insurance companies
Chernynkaya : Nellie– Agree
escribacat : Rarest– exactly!!!
nellie : A lot of the problems in medicare — if I understand correctly — are caused by private sector pricing. I think if there are more people on the plan, and reform puts an end to subsidies and price supports for private plans, it might be solvent
AdLib : javaz, at least you’re here!
TheRarestPatriot : The Admin on both sides of the isle keep using a very KEY phrase in all of this. “An affordable plan everyone can afford”…Well, folks…if you’re not working, anything is TOO much!….
BigDogMom : You would fall under the medicare system, but pay what it would cost to cover you
javaz : Dial up sucks
FeedUp : This can’t backfire. If it forces companies not to hire people in the early 50’s. So many folks not working now.
AdLib : My problem with the PO is that it only applies to a fraction of people AND the premium will be higher than private insurance so most likely, the insurance companies will pick and choose and the unhealthiest ones wioll be shunted to the PO.
Chernynkaya : AdLib– absolutely–Medi care expansion brilliant. But only if it is int regular Medicare, not some private insurere crap. I don’t understand that. Anyone?
AdLib : Medicare does need to increase what it pays though, it’s strapping doctors and hospitals.
escribacat : If the premium for medicare is going to be $600 a month, that’s way too high.
nellie : I think we need both the Medicare Buy in AND the Public Option. There are several in the senate who want to see that kind of plan go forward.
javaz : I’m all for them lowering the age for Medicare but will it mean that the companies we worked for will force us out and make us buy into Medicare?
AdLib : Welcome Boomer and TRP!
escribacat : I can see why young people might think the people getting the good deal (buy in) are the older folks and the youngers ones aren’t getting anything
BigDogMom : e’cat – then he should qualify for something, they can’t expect everyone to be able to afford this
AdLib : Are we all agreed that the Medicare buy in is far better than any Public Option? It creates a precedent and momentum towards single payer.
TheRarestPatriot : Hi all,…found my way here after the other Music room cleared out….it was like crickets and tumbleweeds in there…LOL~
escribacat : He works in a restaurant, makes nothing.
escribacat : Yes, my young nephew (22) is worried about the mandate
BigDogMom : I like the medicare buy in
boomer1949 : Me too, a little late, but was hung up..
Chernynkaya : The worst and most unpopular part is the mandate. peoplemHATE thast, esp to private insurers. That cannot stand. The only mandate acceptable is for a PO.
nellie : That was encouraging
escribacat : This Medicare expansion thing only came out in the past week or so
BigDogMom : Yes, the boomers are taking everyone down, another repug ploy
escribacat : But how many times has it changed direction?
Kalima : Isn’t it better to wait until there is less speculation and more actual truth and facts?
AdLib : I agree with those who say, don’t get crazy about any provision until the bill is finalized but we can see what direction it’s going.
FeedUp : I am getting a feeling both sides are wearing everyone out and nothing will get passed.
escribacat : I saw some interesting posts from younger people … calling it a Boomer plot
BigDogMom : I’m holding out for the final version, new polls say more want some kind of public option, such as medicare buy in
Chernynkaya : I can’t not pay attention til bill final– need to kno0w who to scream at in Congress b4 then
AdLib : You’re never too late, Kalima!
Kalima : Well I’ve rebooteded, almost forgot what to do. Am I too late for the party?
escribacat : Adlib, I think there are all kinds of things that could go wrong.
nellie : So I can’t get worked up over this
Chernynkaya : Nellie– not, not yet
AdLib : Here’s the scenario that concerns me, with the mandate for coverage in place and no control on premiums…and possible limits on coverage, could we be cementing ourselves into a system that just can’t work? And if it fails, the idea of reform will be fatally wounded, the Repubs will rise and the Insurance companies will have finally won the last battle.
escribacat : Yes, I agree, Dems must pass something but I think we’ve got enough champions fighting hard that we’ll get something reasonably good.
nellie : This isn’t the final senate bill, is it?
Chernynkaya : If this bill stinks, the Dems will fail in 2012. They are between a rock/hard place. Must pass the barest decent bill.
nellie : Exactly
escribacat : I just consider this another DOWN on the roller coaster ride. I’m not getting upset about any of it any more.
nellie : This is not the final version.
nellie : I don’t think the house is going to let a bad bill pass. And I don’t think the progressive wing of the senate will either. I’ve been listening to Bernie Sanders this week. He wants a good bill.
BigDogMom : I’m also convinced that this won’t pass
Chernynkaya : On the other hand:
escribacat : Hello, sorry I’m late!
AdLib : nellie: In some ways it may not be as bad but it could run the whole concept of reform into a ditch.
Chernynkaya : On one hand:The bill’s failure will be a big victory for the Republicans politically, will invigorate their obstructionism and their wild-eyed base, and cause a demoralizing loss of momentum for the Dems. I don’t want to see that at all. Bad as the bill is, it is a start and an important win for the Democrats– one that might help put more REAL Democrats in office in 2010. The alternative is unthinkable.
Chernynkaya : on one hand:
BigDogMom : The Cap will be a boon for the insur co’s, but a bust for anyone with a major illness such as cancer…this doesn’t boad well for us
nellie : Anything that’s going to be worse won’t pass. I’m convinced of that.
AdLib : Right with ya on that, javaz.
javaz : Hanging in but let’s talk the loophole on healthcare,
AdLib : FOR OUR FIRST TOPIC, AS CHERNYNKAYA POSTED TONIGHT, THE SENATE MAY ALLOW INSURANCE COMPANIES TO CAP HOW MUCH MONEY THEY SPEND PER PATIENT. ALSO, ALLOWING PEOPLE 55 YEARS OLD AND UP TO BUY INTO MEDICARE SOUNDS GREAT…BUT IF THE PREMIUMS ARE $800/MONTH AS PROJECTED AND MANY WON’T QUALIFY FOR ASSISTANCE, IS IT TOO EASY FOR HEALTH CARE REFORM TO BECOME A WORSE DISASTER FOR THE NATION AND THE DEMS AS A PARTY?