AdLib : Night all!!!
KQµårk 死神 : Real progressives do come to their senses. OK this time I’m really out.
AdLib : Yes, purists are anarchists. They are Howard Roarks who would blow up what their party and country has built because they personally felt it wasn’t exactly what they wanted.
AdLib : Well…I wouldn’t call those people Progressive, there’s nothing progressive or supporting progress about people who would let Rome burn because it wasn’t perfect.
KQµårk 死神 : I should say very few of the purist who are really anarchists.
KQµårk 死神 : Save for some of the purist. You have to admit AdLib some progressives would like to see the whole thing crash down.
AdLib : KQ – Yep, really enjoyed starting early tonight…and going late! Sleep well KQ and have a wonderful weekend!
AdLib : KQ – Yep, Progressives believe in progress, which is why they use that label. They don’t seek destruction like Repubs.
KQµårk 死神 : Wow look at the time. I think we broke a VP record on time. Take care AdLib and BITO.
AdLib : KQ – Only under Reagan. One doesn’t need Sherlock Holmes skills of deductive to deduce why Reagan would secretly sell to an avowed enemy of America instead of to an ally. Because of course, it wasn’t an option, it was required.
KQµårk 死神 : Dems just don’t have destroying America in their DNA. That’s why I’m proud to be a Dem.
AdLib : Bito – He would have had a truly failed presidency…but the Dems would have wanted to destroy the nation and that would never happen.
KQµårk 死神 : The list of sales were all in the 80′s and easy to find on Wiki. August 20, 1985. 96 TOW anti-tank missiles September 14, 1985. 408 more TOWs November 24, 1985. 18 Hawk anti-aircraft missiles February 17, 1986. 500 TOWs February 27, 1986. 500 TOWs May 24, 1986. 508 TOWs, 240 Hawk spare parts August 4, 1986. More Hawk spares October 28, 1986. 500 TOWs
bito : oops, was going to bed then saw the name Raygun. How good of a president would he have been if the Dem leadership called for him to be one termer at all costs and filibustered/hel d/blocked everything he proposed? I other words treated like Obama?
AdLib : Get your rest, CL, you need it and deserve it! Hope it goes well!
KQµårk 死神 : Goodnight sleep well CL.
AdLib : Can you imagine if Bush sold arms to Iran? With all the countries Reagan could have sold arms to, why Iran? Seems pretty obvious to me.
choicelady : Well folks, I think I’m packing it in. I have to be on the road Sunday at 6 am for a two-day training I’m doing in the San Luis Obispo area, and tomorrow is my only “day of rest” so I’m starting it NOW. Take care and be well – talk to you on Thursday if not before! Good night!
AdLib : CL – I will look for it later but let’s just look at two simple facts. The hostages were released without Iranians receiving anything in return. A few years later, Reagan sold arms to Iran, an avowed enemy of the US, to fund their war on the contras in Nicaragua. Could a deal be any more obvious?
KQµårk 死神 : Oh absolutely AdLib. Lehrer should have pushed for details on Romney’s tax plan. It was crazy Obama had to do that on his own.
choicelady : Reagan was the most clearly venal president we’ve had – worse than even Bush who was far more stupid. People forget Reagan made the deal with the religous right in 1980 and in the process became a follower of Rushdoony whose extremist views were incredibly scary. Add it all up and he makes Nixon and Bush II look pretty good. But his personality and movies keep him in the public memory as a genial all-American guy. Horrors!
KQµårk 死神 : The deal was Reagan would not engage with Iran for taking the hostages in the first place. Despite all Reagan’s bluster he was not stupid enough to start a war with Iran. I’m not saying Carter would have started a war with Iran either but with the arms deal Reagan gave them the cake and frosting.
choicelady : AdLib – where is the final “proof” and why has this not been trumpted to the skies??? Last I’d heard, several years ago, the charges were dismissed. Reagan would therefore be the first fully treasonous candidate then president EVER. He was a civilian – clear violation of the Logan Act if nothing else. Despicable. Absolutely despicable.
AdLib : KQ – COnsider Lehrer’s lame questions, “What makes your policies on Social Security different from his?” Wow, really specific and detailed question Jim, well done!
KQµårk 死神 : AdLib no doubt Bush’s biggest lie campaigning was that he could work across the isle. He was a stone hearted partisan but people believed that lie.
AdLib : CL – It’s been documented that Reagan’s team made a deal with the Iranians to not release the hostages until after the election, not a conspiracy theory. The hostages WERE going to be released before the election…until the Reagan team got in contact with them. I don’t know though what promises were made but there was a deal, it wasn’t a coincidence that they were released after Reagan won.
choicelady : AdLib – in the C-Span restaging of the Galesburg, IL Lincoln-Douglas debate, each SIDE had at least 90 minutes! I watched a hunk of it re-enacted, and I had to give up after Lincoln since it was well over 90 minutes when I quit at 3:30 am. People took these things seriously. They did not expect large issues settled in sound bites.
KQµårk 死神 : Oh on that arms for hostage deal CL. I take that as a true historical fact.
KQµårk 死神 : The biggest shame in this debate was the questions that were not asked. The whole role of government thing was a joke as well because other topics bring that out.
AdLib : KQ – Bush was a cypher on foreign policy, it was Cheney who pushed the wars forward after convincing Bush to follow him. So, was he lying as much as ROmney? I don’t know.
choicelady : AdLib – I honestly cannot remember if they lied. I think some, and with Reagan the “secret plan to release the hostages” was, I think, the arms deal. But to this extent? I don’t think any previous candidate has been this power mad and this crazy. I am NOT exaggerating the Borderline Personality Disorder issue. He is not a well person.
KQµårk 死神 : Exactly AdLib I forgot to say that and even though the issues were important back then they were not nearly as complex as they are today.
AdLib : KQ – But the Lincoln Douglas debates went on for many hours, didn’t they? An hour and a half is not long enough and the timer on responses hindered getting into details.
choicelady : KQ – to my dying day I will always believe Reagan made a deal with Iran to keep the hostages. They hated Carter for giving aid and comfort to the Shah, and the deal for arms was too damned good to pass up with Reagan. They were fine with it because they did not care who was president so long as they got arms. The Contra part came later – the arms for HOSTAGES was blatant when they were released during Reagan’s inauguration. If he did that, it’s treason, and he rises to the top, surpassing Nixon in disgusting betrayal of his nation.
KQµårk 死神 : No and No. Actually GWB lied the most to get in office with his anti-war and unity stances.
KQµårk 死神 : The format for the first debate was just insane. They tried to bring back the Lincoln Douglas format but there are too many issues in modern America for that type of debate.
AdLib : KQ and CL – You’re both talking about a sitting Pres lying in office…but did Nixon or Reagan lie to this degree when campaigning?
KQµårk 死神 : I think the town hall format fits Obama much better too. I can see Romney really turning off questioners.
AdLib : CL – I miss Molly! What a wit!
KQµårk 死神 : Oh I know what you mean CL. Reagan was just smooth about his lies.
choicelady : AdLib – remember what Molly Ivins said about the not inhaling: it meant we’d get a whiff of progressivism but we’d never get a good high from it.
AdLib : I think the Media is now going to go for the new debate underdog, Obama. They want the drama of having Obama win the second round so that the third round will be The Big Showdown or Winner Takes all. So…I think it’s nearly a done deal that Obama will be called the winner of the second debate. He will be prepared for an all out assault of lies from Romney and the MSM will be rooting for him to win Round Two.
KQµårk 死神 : Agreed CL it was great to see. I think the Obama campaign should use it in a mailer. It not only backs Obama greatly but really nails Romney too.
choicelady : I agree about Nixon – but I think Reagan was perhaps as devious. His lies were covered with charm and ‘hail fellow well met’ comraderie. But I think him the most evil of president with about the same absence of core values we see in Mitt. Even Nixon was more understandable – venal, power mad, grasping. Reagan was driven by – we can’t even see it. He was horrid.
KQµårk 死神 : Really Obama and Carter are the only basically truthful candidates I can remember in my lifetime.
choicelady : KQ – the SL dispatch editorial is AMAZING! Whoda thunk it in MISSOURI????
choicelady : Good night bito! Wonderful to see you tonight.
AdLib : Bito, take care pal and get some good rest! Have a relaxing weekend! So nice to have you back!
KQµårk 死神 : Take care bro.
AdLib : KQ – Will read it later, thanks! Nixon was a liar and many candidates lie about this or that in campaigns…Bill CLinton didn’t inhale? Really? I believe that? But…I have never seen the basis of a campaign be a bed of lies.
KQµårk 死神 : Then again bito I never saw a candidates own campaign fact check them like Romney’s campaign did with covering people with preexisting conditions.
bito : Thanks KQ, I think I will make that read my nightcap. Time for meds and bed. Have a nice weekend1
KQµårk 死神 : BITO the only one I could remember remotely this close was Nixon. And his lies were not nearly this blatant. He just played like he was centrist very well.
KQµårk 死神 : For something really positive BITO this endorsement or Obama is a great read. «link»
bito : “It’s hard to remember a time in American politics where you had someone who’s a major nominee for the presidency being that fundamentally dishonest about core parts of his campaign platform.”
bito : Plouffe pretty much covers it:
KQµårk 死神 : When he said Romneycare was a model for states my jaw dropped. I thought he gave that one up.
KQµårk 死神 : So true BITO.
KQµårk 死神 : That’s what I’m hoping for AdLib. That he just can’t keep his story straight. I mean he changed his story a couple times in the last debate and should have been challenged.
KQµårk 死神 : Yup as much as I knew Romney was a liar. He even threw me when he disavowed his own tax plan.
AdLib : But being a pathological liar is unsustainable, I don’t believe it can be maintained for three debates, let alone one more. Romney has now exposed how low he will go and that allows Obama to come at him in a holistic way now.
AdLib : Bito – That’s about the size of it!
AdLib : KQ – Thanks for the link. This seems to be an honest admission. I think all of us were astounded at him denying that gravity existed and that the Earth was round, he denied just about every truth about his campaign. Hard to be prepared for someone to be a pathological liar in a debate. But dishonors to the MSM for only caring about who “looked” like a winner instead of how someone lied to look like he was the winner.
KQµårk 死神 : BTW I’m not a fan of inside info coming from a campaign because it shows they are worried about something.
KQµårk 死神 : I think Ryan is a much worse liar than Romney and has tons of tells so that should help. And you are right since Romney has such fuzzy math it should make Ryan look worse.
KQµårk 死神 : I’m not a big fan of inside info coming from a campaign but the Obama campaign explained a little about what happened and a very little about how they will fix it in the next debate. «link»
choicelady : KQ – I agree about slippery Ryan but here’s a thought: could Ryan be TOTALLY freaked out by Romney’s denials in the debate? Ryan has already deferred to Romney saying he’s the boss, so is he scrambling to get a grip on Romney’s 100% fully reorganized but unarticulated campaign policies? He must be totally FREAKED OUT since he already admitted HIS plan has no numbers, no substance, but it did have talking points. What of these new policies – no tax cuts, keep some of Obamacare, all the things Ryan HATES and that now he has to embrace. He must be hysterial with fear that he just signed on to be Veep to a man who is 100% batshit crazy.
AdLib : CL – Yes, Obama should never say “lie” but he could come up with an amusing term for Romney lying, killing two birds with one stone. Nailing Romney for lying and coming across as amusing and not hostile for Indie voters.
choicelady : I don[t know why, but it occurred to me that one tactic, one that seems natural to Obama’s personality, is a kind of Will Rogers or Gary Cooper kind of drawn out, slow and sly rebuttal of Romney. MAKE him look like the chipmunk on speed that he was this past week. As a lobbyist I’ve also learned the A word – “you know, that’s not ACCURATE”. It make the point of the lie without the confrontation of the word. Works wonders.
KQµårk 死神 : The Obama campaign can’t take Ryan for granted either. I hope their is more foreign policy talk but Ryan is a slippery salesman too.
AdLib : Night Sue! Have a lovely weekend!
AdLib : And just how depressed will Repubs be if after the jobs report, Biden KO’s Ryan and Obama nails Romney in debates?
AdLib : KQ – I think Obama has time to sit down with his team and construct an approach to choking off Romney’s lies by carrying a theme of “Romneyspeak” or something like that. I wouldn’t be surprised to see something like that in the next debate.
choicelady : Good night Sue – hope your grandson is engaged in meaningful work. Or fun.
AdLib : Murph – We had a great crowd for this week’s debate, many folks I haven’t seen for a while. Was a lot of fun and next Thursday should be no exception!
choicelady : ‘Night Murph! See you during the debate I hope.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…goody
AdLib : Murph – You bet, live chats here for all the debates including Biden-Ryan! See ya then!
AdLib : I think Obama has the space now to drop the hammer on Romney as a liar and as in judo, use the weight of his ongoing lies against him. In a debate, the more he lies and flip flops, it becomes a negative once it’s pointed out by Obama for what it is.
SueInCa : My grandson is too quiet I better go see what he is up to, night all
MurphTheSurf3 : AdLib….live event this Thursday for Biden/Ryan???
KQµårk 死神 : Absolutely AdLib that’s probably the only strategy Obama has. Obviously it was not a strategy that was easy to employ in the first debate. I think the real problem or Obama is timing. He just does not have much time to prepare because of his day job and Kerry is NOT the best person to be playing Romney either.
AdLib : Night Murph! Have a great weekend!
AdLib : Maybe Obama should use the phrase “Romneyspeak” for the BS Romney spews. As in, “There he goes again with more Romneyspeak, stating untruths, promising you can have it all and it won’t cost you anything, who can believe anything he says anymore?”
SueInCa : Night Murph I will be behind you in a few too.
MurphTheSurf3 : Well time for me to fold the tent. So, wishing you all a peaceful good night.
AdLib : KQ – When some one is using a pea shooter on you, you don’t try to stop each pea, you take away the straw. Obama needs a broad approach to framing Romney as a liar (without using that term of course) and when he bellows out a flood of lies, he shouldn’t try to knock all of them down, knock down a couple then go back into framing Romney as someone who will say anything to get elected, promise anything, guarantee anything but he’s not telling you the truth. Keep hammering that, especially using a phrase that could become a catchphrase.
SueInCa : Top Shelf Margarita
choicelady : Going for a glass of wine – BRB. Can I get anyone anything while I’m up?
SueInCa : Sales people leave their messes behind because they are only worried about commission. We had them at WFB and I tell you the messed up accounts we had to clean up whoo boy.
KQµårk 死神 : Unfortunately there are people who are gullible and they tend to be the swing voter types. The good thing for Obama is that many of these voters are women who hate hard sales pitches like that.
choicelady : KQ – that’s a very good analogy – Romney the Snake Oil Salesman. Tell ya what ya wanta hear, no matter what it may be! But he will always have that fine print to weasel out of keeping ANY promise and will tell YOU you are paranoid and delusional for thinking he ever made a promise in the first place. Borderline Personality Disorder.
SueInCa : That is a good analogy KQ. Anyone who has worked with sales people should be able to recognize it.
KQµårk 死神 : BITO! How are you?
SueInCa : Thanks Murph I will check it out. Adlib I turned it off i did not want to hear their shit. Ed is famous for doing that and it pisses me off
KQµårk 死神 : I go back to the salesperson thing again. Romney is the ultimate chameleon when it comes to what salespeople do. I just hope people see the sales pitch for the vapid reality it is.
bito : Hello, C’lady and all, it is nice to get on line once in a while.
choicelady : Murph – that’s GREAT. It does remind me of my husband’s fave joke: a liberal, a conservative, and a moderate go into a bar. The bartender says, “Hi Mitt.”
AdLib : Hey Bito! Great to see ya!
AdLib : Yes, I found the hysteria at MSNBC and the venom from Schultz aimed at Obama quite offensive and just plain ignorant. And Chris Matthews shrill insistence that Obama needs to watch MSNBC was the height of egocentric lunacy. I hate when people who appear to be on the left act identically to nutjobs on the right. This is why Obama is a remarkable man and they fail to see it. His behavior remains true to who he is and separates him from Romney and the GOP. The MSNBC crew’s behavior reflects the same emotionalism as Fox News when “their” guy doesn’t seem to be fairing as well. If MSNBC was as principled as Obama, all of them would have been thoughtful and contained their extreme emotions.
SueInCa : Well I sam surely going to catch that vid of hom. CL that was my point about the whole night. I have been having a debate with a good friend ever since via email Hey Bito!
KQµårk 死神 : CL I agree believe me when Romney is throwing out 3,4,5 lies in every answer it’s easy to get caught off guard. Of course the thing I worry about is how do you combat that even when you know it’s coming.
MurphTheSurf3 : BEFORE I FORGET THIS….check out «link» RoboRomney is a great fun site….quite impressive what it does.
choicelady : Hey bito – lovely to see you! Yes. Senile would be my take.
bito : The thing about Welch was he was wrong on so many points. He also said that the fall in unemployment was the biggest since 1983. That is just so wrong. We have had bigger jumps within the last 2 years. Senile?
choicelady : KQ – of course there’s no way to know, but maybe Obama DID watch MSNBC and that was part of the problem? My take is that he walked into a room expecting a debate and encoutered a raging buzzsaw. Who can rationally respond to someone who interrupts, dominates without being controlled by the moderator, and LIES through his teeth then denies he said anything earlier OR just now. It was Borderline Personality Disorder incarnate.
KQµårk 死神 : Maddow was not too bad at least to the point where I started playing Madden 13 but Tweety and Ed were off scale.
SueInCa : That is funny Welchers. The model had nothing to do with hiring or firing really it was more on the coaching, counseling and communicating with your staff. No surprise reviews if you know what I mean. No review should have been a surprise with that model. Visa only outsourced divisions that were becoming defunct.
AdLib : Thanks for the kind words, Choicelady!
MurphTheSurf3 : KQ…yes MSNBC crew went berserk….only the Rev. and O’Donnell kept their heads about them.
AdLib : Sue – I accept that Welch may have had some effective business practices but he also had some detestable ones. BTW, heard on MSNBC that those who see conspiracy theories behind jobs numbers should be called “Welchers”.
SueInCa : Murph that man repulses me no end
MurphTheSurf3 : Sue….Sunnunu was as good as the Romney campaign could get for a while, detestable from the start.
KQµårk 死神 : Shite I though Ed was going to have a heart attack in front of millions. They are all so freaking arrogant saying that Obama NEEDED to watch MSNBC to win the next debate.
SueInCa : Well we were using the model he used in the US and it sure did not include that. That must have been internal to GE. We picked up the model in 1998
choicelady : AdLib – that’s masterful, comparing pundits to peacocks! LOL!!! It’s spot ON, thank you!
KQµårk 死神 : Exactly Sue like I told AdLib earlier Welch would fire 10% of his workers each year and most people he hired to fill in were overseas. I know because I worked for a company where one of our divisions was bought by GE and some people I use to work with told me how they operated. It was a draconian nightmare.
SueInCa : so is Sununu why anyone would give that criminal the time of day is beyond me
AdLib : KQ – You said it! Pundits, including the often insightful Sullivan, are like peacocks in the old days, used as alarms because they squawked whenever anything stirred. Not every little development is important to most people yet pundits have the restraint of two year olds in a candy store.
MurphTheSurf3 : CL …. they did….I think once he started working for the big press they set some standards.
choicelady : Sue – maybe he’s getting senile?
SueInCa : Well we went to DC for a personnel convention and the whole convention was teaching the methods he used in personnel and they worked. We had much better results in personnel issues after we started using that model
choicelady : Murph – they sure cleaned Nate up, didn’t they? He looks freaking respectable. Does he have a handler who keeps him on haircut and wardrobe appointments? He defines NERD but now doesn’t look like one. So much…
KQµårk 死神 : CL he’s the only prognosticator that matters IMO. If he get’s a big nervous than I will but not until then. Of course poor Andrew Sullivan was hyperventilating AGAIN and overreacted. He and most pundits don’t know how to separate out pundit world with the real world.
AdLib : Sue – KQ mentioned that part of how Welch turned GE around was by being a pioneer of outsourcing and a huge polluter.
choicelady : Sue – too bad about Welch. Proof that everyone who has too much time on their hands needs a hobby. Preferably one that keeps them OUT of the public limelight!
MurphTheSurf3 : Saw Nate Silver on the Bill Press Show this morning….he is so cool and his methodology hard to challenge
SueInCa : Nerd Wallet had it higher than that a few weeks ago. I am going to check that too tonite
AdLib : The Repubs KNOW Obama is going to win and this jobs report just explodes the only remaining reason to vote for Romney. I think it’s over for Romney now, totally over and no debate will change that.
choicelady : Nate Silver reaised Obama’s re-election chances to 86%, the highest maybe EVER. Nate’s pretty reliable!
SueInCa : CL Welch did a great job turning GE around in fact we were using their personnel model at Visa. He retired and turned in to a shit
AdLib : Sue – Yes, we were discussing it. When you see high profile Repubs go mental in full public view, it’s a good time to increase your bet on Obama’s re-election.
choicelady : Sue -I tweeted Welch and told him these were the same figures Reagan used, Obama was a very good president and to suck it up. I never heard back for some reason…
KQµårk 死神 : I know and close to double digit flip flops in swing state polls. It was totally orchestrated if not fixed.
MurphTheSurf3 : CL…Michelle’s dad….feel like I know him through her.
SueInCa : They have been doing it for years and now it is their birthrite. Did anyone see Jack Welch have his meltdown this morning? I am going to hunt the video down after this tonite
choicelady : Murph – Michelle O’s father? Wow. I think he was terrific – and he had a fabulous sense of humor. Taught me to laugh out loud. Not a lot of people do. He could make me laugh until I cried – he was great.
AdLib : KQ – Amazing that after the conventions, we’re told it will take a week to see how the polls are affected but somehow the day after the debate, we see RW polls that are supposed to reflect Romney gaining because of the debate? How dishonest is the MSM and how little respect do they have for the people to BS so blatantly?
MurphTheSurf3 : CL….now I get it….thanks for the background…you r dad sounds heroic…reminde d my of Michelle’s dad.
SueInCa : It was just really hard to pin it down. Texas lost to the O’s
choicelady : Sue – I don’t know much about BOEs and charters. I just read the charter school results – they stink.
AdLib : Sue – I don’t know what the story is on charter school oversight. But there have been a lot of problem charters here in LA…a lot!
choicelady : KQ – those are very good points!
KQµårk 死神 : One of the worst they they did was pump up those early conservative polls in swing states. You talk about cooked numbers.
KQµårk 死神 : Both AL it was aweful.
choicelady : Murph – grew up in Chicago suburbs, my Dad worked for the Chicago Assn. of Commerce and Industry as their director of research. He used data to do two things: promote racial integration as an essential part of prosperity and to uphold unions as equally essential to middle class stability. His work was extolled to me as a young adult by people who recognized my last name and then told me what amazing things he’d accomplished. He also worked against block busting with thoughtful neighborhood integration. He was amazing – and all suffering with Parkinson’s he’d acquired during WW II and with which he lived for 60-plus years.
KQµårk 死神 : Let a playa play. I had my fun but I think it’s worse if you don’t sow some oats at least a bit. Alas I still got married too young the first time at 22. No regrets because it probably kept me out of trouble.
SueInCa : Adlib and CL what is wrong with the BOE’s and their lack of followup with the Charters? I never found out if it was not required or if they just do not follow up. There were different ops everywhere
AdLib : KQ – Do you mean the articles, comments or both at HP? They did happily jump on the “Obama Blew It!” wagon editorially but I did see articles nailing Romney for lying and flip-flopping.
AdLib : CL – Only a matter of time, Rhee is mercenary and an ideologue, those types always slip up.
choicelady : KQ – that may be TMI, dear!!!
KQµårk 死神 : AdLib talking about huff po. God were they terrible for the last two days. I swear they looked just like Drudge.
choicelady : AdLib – I agree her glitter has tarnished, but I’d never count that snake down and out til she’s dead and buried. Or just buried under some inescapable scandal.
MurphTheSurf3 : CL…how do you know so much about Chicago and Harold?
SueInCa : good call ad lib
KQµårk 死神 : Of course she had no problem sleeping with a gentile heh heh heh
choicelady : Murph – I know you’re right about Harold and Barack. Two good men for and out of Chicago.
AdLib : CL – Rhee and Johnson sound like a Michael and Arianna Huffington type arrangement.
SueInCa : I would not put it past her I thought he had more sense though
KQµårk 死神 : I remember when a Jewish girl I was hitting on in college said she would only marry a Jewish man. I just thought they still fucking make you.
choicelady : Sue – I think Kevin and Michelle are a marriage of convenience.
choicelady : KQ – oh, you’re just biased because you’re open minded. (That IS a joke, KQ!)
MurphTheSurf3 : CL I think back on that time working for Harold as my warmup for working for Barack. Harold would have loved Barack and I think Barack would have loved Harold.
AdLib : CL – Knowing that, I will keep an eye on her but my point is that her momentum has greatly diminished and she is becoming moot to the public at large.
choicelady : KQ – Muslims have way too good taste to do that, but it WOULD be funny to watch FOX get its collective panties in a wad.
KQµårk 死神 : There you go AdLib. Making the cons go batshitcrazy would be fun to watch.
SueInCa : Maybe that was why their wedding was so secretive
choicelady : Murph – I know Hyde Park, think what you did was a MAJOR social good, and thank you!
SueInCa : I agree
KQµårk 死神 : I know right CL. I hate all those segregated dating thingies even the ones for just African Americans or Jewish folk make my skin crawl because they are so closed minded. I understand personal preference but not cutting off yourself to good people just for one physical or philosophical trait.
choicelady : AdLib and Sue – don’t count Michelle Rhee out just yet. She married the Sacramento mayor, idiotic charter school founder and total all around doofus Kevin Johnson (former basketball player, yes) to give herself the money she needed to promote her “non profit” advocating charter schools and “parent rights”. She is very dangerous, relentless, and self centered.
AdLib : KQ – Maybe we could collect money from folks to put up a “Muslims Mingle” ad on Fox News. Then let’s see their defense against “The War on Religion”.
SueInCa : CL wht I found when researching them was dicey, vulture capitalists running them on my tax money. How do you justify using tax money on schools where not everyone can go? Talk about big gubmint and righties think it is just fine
MurphTheSurf3 : Cl Absolutely and Harold was a big part of that change. I really liked Harold, a lot. I worked his campaign as a white guy who lived in Hyde Park and campaigned in black precincts BECAUSE so many blacks did not think it was ok for them to vote for the guy who was not the Machine’s Choice….the final outcome. Washington won with 37% of the vote, versus 33% for Byrne and 30% for Daley.
AdLib : Sue – Rhee has been disgraced among many and the public strongly supports teachers. This push of hers seems on the downswing.
choicelady : KQ – the “husband” with that hat gives me the major creeps in the Christian Mingle ads – he looks just like one of the anti-abortion zealots I knew.
AdLib : KQuark, MSNBC is a whore. They put up some really crude and cheap-looking RW commercials spewing birtherism and other racism. They are co-owned by Jack Welch’s GE and Repub Comcast. Happy to get ratings from Progressives and more money from advertisers and just as happy to take money from racists to broadcast their ads.
KQµårk 死神 : There I’ll go back to watching Star Trek Voyager reruns since the wifey is out of town this weekend.
choicelady : Sue – they might once have been good, but they exist to do three things: legally segregate. Kill the unions and with them standards of excellence. Permit religion in the classroom. Those that do NOT do that are rare.
SueInCa : I sure hope so Adlib. I was getting real tired of hearing about her wonders. I did some research on Charter schools and what I found was appalling and scary
KQµårk 死神 : Here we go another Christian Mingle commercial I got to turn off MSNBC. BRB.
choicelady : Murph! I did not know that about you! I thought the world of him. Richie Daley did pick up some of the pieces, but he never had the machine of his father because he was prochoice, not a bigot, had to realize diversity was permanent, and never could assemble the power his father had. It may have been intentional or a byproduct of the machine busting, but it is NOT Daley’s city anymore.
AdLib : Sue – Michelle Rhee has been getting justifiably knocked down rung after rung in esteem and the charter school push is not working. Americans like public education and teachers. And that anti teachers film, “Won’t Back Down” was dubbed the biggest Indie film bomb ever, it crashed and burned. Really pleased about that, says everything about the public not gobbling up the anti-public education BS.
KQµårk 死神 : But of course the case with the coal company goes way beyond that.
KQµårk 死神 : Thanks for bring that up AdLib. That is so typical Republican. I know what that type of pressure is like not in financial terms but being surrounded by conservatives. They take for granted that if you are white and male and in management you are automatically conservative.
choicelady : Sue – in Chicago some charter schools were absolutey wonderful. The West Side benefitted from some amazing schools in an otherwise blasted area. Overall I detest charter schools, and Obama has moved AWAY from Rhee (whom I also detest) as her actuall Washington DC record has become clear. She did huge damage to schools all in the name of “liberating” them from teachers’ unions. She did not do one good thing for DC.
AdLib : And how about the slave-donation (as opposed to slave-labor) practiced by that coal baron, forcing all employees to contribute to his RW Repub SuperPAC? This is modern day serfdom!
choicelady : ADLib – I want Akin to answer me this: More businesses are now owned by women than by men. Do women have the right to pay WOMEN more than MEN just because they are the owners with unfettered rights?
SueInCa : I loved Chicago and Wrigley field
KQµårk 死神 : CL great story. Obama sincerely has personal integrity so even being in a Chicago environment didn’t affect his personal ethics.
MurphTheSurf3 : CL- I lived in Chicago when Harold Washington became mayor…hell I worked for him…he was in office for 4 years but he broke the back of the machine…which was dying anyway…he was a reformer and after being elected fought Council Wars for four years ruling by veto. It worked since there was so much power vested in the mayors office (by precedent not by law). After he died there was a struggle for power and Richie Daly picked up the pieces.
SueInCa : The esteemed legislator from ARkansas thinks it was all better when blacks were in slavery…..
choicelady : KQ – Rahm may be old style, but he’s no dope and not venal. He is also not a bigot – Richard Daley surely was. His son was not. Things change, people change, things get better. Chicago is a wonderful city now, and some of it was due to Richard J.
SueInCa : Adlib even Obama is in on the teacher union/school issue to a point. They are all backing that slime ball Michelle Rhee and pushing for charter schools. Charter schools take district money without any reporting requirements
AdLib : CL – Yep, Todd Akin thinks we should get rid of discrimination laws and minimum wage law so employers can pay minorities and women a fraction of white men and pay them all under a dollar an hour. What a party, who wouldn’t want to join it?
KQµårk 死神 : Sorry Rahm
choicelady : AdLib – I remember gasping at that statement from Romney. I CANNOT find it but did hear it!
KQµårk 死神 : Interestingly it seems like Obama learned what not to do from Romney in the White House too.
choicelady : Sue – yes, all cities have problems. Maybe not Portland and that ilk, but most that have long, ethnically diverse and machine politics backgrounds. KQ – I think you’re right about PBO learning early on what NOT to do. I have a good friend who knew him well when he was in the state Assembly and she, a minister, took no guff from anyone. She thought and thinks the world of him.
AdLib : CL – Really? I didn’t remember that quote from ROmney. He complained about saving union jobs? Wow.
KQµårk 死神 : Rahm is old style Chicago politics for sure.
AdLib : CL – Good to know it’s not as bad as it was in Chicago but Rahm manipulated laws to even run for office and he’s such a slimy guy…attacking teacher unions? That’s a Progressive? Nope, and he never had been.
KQµårk 死神 : CL good summary. In a way that helped Obama learn what NOT to do in politics which is sometimes as important as learning what to do.
SueInCa : CL Chicago is no wworse than Boston or Brooklyn don’t you thin? They all have their thugs
choicelady : AdLib – we all know that slave labor jobs are so much more American…
choicelady : ADLib – and more manufacturing jobs SAVED. I’d love to find the clip where Romney said – and I heard it – that the failure of the auto bailout was that it saved UNION jobs. He made that point very clearly!
MurphTheSurf3 : TO ALL…my point is that “taking names and kicking ASS” runs contrary to his upbringing, his childhood environment, his own life choices….AND I will throw another one in….NOT being a stereotypical BLACK MAN…the basketball analysis is particularly telling for me.
AdLib : 500k manufacturing jobs created…or as a Republican would call it, failed policies and a conspiracy of corrupt statistics.
KQµårk 死神 : Cheers I stand corrected Murph. I though he lived there for a little while.
choicelady : Just one thing – in defense of Chicago politics. It’s no longer Richard Daley awful. Remember Harold Washington was in for quite a few years. Illinois politics are not brassknuckle politics anymore. They have not been in many a moon, even when Obama was first there. What it is now is mediocre, but I do think the diversity of representation, the power of minorities, the public eye on the mess has done a LOT to clean many things up. That said – it’s a city, and it’s a city with a lot of problems. Obama came late enough to avoid most of the corruption that we lay at Chicago’s door. During the 1920 the MOST corrupt city in America was – tah dah – St. Paul, MN. Who’d think that now?
SueInCa : By angry black man I mean more assertive in Obama’s terms
KQµårk 死神 : The good part is Obama’s background gave him his greatest trait as well which is an almost ungodly calm and considerate demeanor.
MurphTheSurf3 : KQ…I don’t think Barack ever lived in Ks. He did live with his Kansan grandparents in Hi.
SueInCa : I hear that Murph but he is not dealing with normal people here, none of us are. I am very mellow by habit but even I have become somewhat deranged dealing with stupid all the time. There comes a time when you have to assert. I believe he is the only one who thinks the angry black man is not appropriate
AdLib : Murph – That makes a lot of sense, that an individual is partially a product of his or her environment. Beach type communities often are far more laid back and easy going. I lived in San Diego at one point, many beach communities near LA, that’s what I’ve seen. So no surprise to me that Obama is exactly the man he’s always appeared to be, a cool and calm guy.
KQµårk 死神 : And Indonesia since he didn’t know the language made him somewhat of an introvert too.
KQµårk 死神 : Murph you have a great point about Hawaii but also add rural Kansas when he lived with his grandparents. Obama entered the NE and Chicago culture relatively late and not during his formative years.
choicelady : Sue – they believe in fairy dust, unicorns, the Second Coming with AK-47s. I don’t begrudge them their happy place. It just can’t be next to ours.
MurphTheSurf3 : For Sue and Ad Lib (and anyone else) a repeat. A HAWAIIAN INSIGHT INTO OBAMA AND CONFLICT…Obama was raised by very laid back people in the most laid back of places…did you know that Aloha translates best as “I accept you as you are.”? He chose to become an academic and live in the world of ideas. He fell into his Illinois Senate seat and then won his U.S Senate seat without a real battle. His debate performance in the 2008 primaries was not great and never really got great- especially with Hillary. McCain? The GOP was friend so it did not matter. MY POINT- this is a guy who does not like external conflict. I have read that when he plays basketball he rarely shoots. He is the playmaker- setting up the pattern and then triggering it. Rough and tumble argument in the style that Romney used on Wed. is not his forte and will not be. The word from the WH is that his approach to conflict is to disarm it, to bring down the room temp and move all towards common ground. WHAT THINK YE?
SueInCa : God I hope so CL maybe they will be finally happy with the unicorns
AdLib : KQ – South Park has kind of outlived its best years but it has its moments at times. Here’s a link to James Cameron “raising the bar”: «link»
choicelady : Sue – oh, I think you’re right. Flying monkeys! But if they DID declare End Times, would they rapture away and leave us in peace? Something to hope for…
SueInCa : Murph curious what about the roots?
SueInCa : CL I call them my flying monkeys
choicelady : AdLib – if Obama ever used a Reaganesque line, the skies would open with RW screaming dementia. The winged monkeys would all come out, and the end of times would be declared.
SueInCa : That would work adlib I was practically jumping out of my chair the other night. Not sure what was up with Obama
MurphTheSurf3 : ad lib Did you see my comment about O’s Hawaiian roots and the Wed debate? I think you were on the phone when they landed.
KQµårk 死神 : CL I just think they loaded up Romneybot’s SD Drive with a 64GB memory card.
SueInCa : Hey Murph
KQµårk 死神 : Speaking of hankie. I stopped watching South Park after Mr. Hankie. Hideeho.
choicelady : Murph – DAMN. I hate when a good conspiracy of ours has to give way to reason. Not for us the endless cycle of paranoid delusion. Sigh.
SueInCa : It really does not matter anyway. Bush cheated too
AdLib : How about this, slipping index cards into a hanky you toss on your podium? Even so, what does it really matter? He just spewed lies. Obama does need to have a solid strategy of confronting Romney as a liar and instead of trying to knock down each and every lie, just bring it back to, “There you go again!”.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sue- hey there. I was here in the pre game and then gone a bit and back.
choicelady : Murph – You have a VERY good point there! He’d make a great backpacker – leave only your footprint – if he ever thought to break a sweat in the great outdoors. You are probably correct.
KQµårk 死神 : Nite you all folks are dropping like flies.
SueInCa : The FBI could enhance the pic to see what it was. I vote for further investigation
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- I think what we see at the start is a hanky- so does Rachel M.- at the end- why grab the papers- this is the man who leaves no trace of himself behind wherever he goes- remember buying the computers and wiping out the hard drives in Mass and at Salt Lake.
choicelady : ‘Night kes and Em – great to see you. Sweet dreams!
AdLib : Night Kes! Night Emerald! See you both soon!
AdLib : Choicelady – Oh, that means you have to clear your cookies (or just your planetpov cookies if you know how to do select just them) then restart your browser…it happens when a planetpov cookie is corrupted…or drunk.
SueInCa : I agree Adlib totally with you on that. Night Em don’t be a stranger
choicelady : kes – Good night! Sorry I wasn’t here earlier so we could chat more!
Emerald1943 : Kes, I have to sign off too. I am so glad to “see” you again. I will definitely be back! Love to you all!
choicelady : kes – that sticker’s right up there with those “I have a gun and will shoot you if I don’t like you” ones. Horrible.
SueInCa : Night Kes sleep well
AdLib : Sue – South Park has declined a bit in its level of humor but this week they did an episode about Honey Boo Boo and the bar dropping so low…James Cameron took a sub down to the bottom of the ocean to raise the bar. We are at such a low point that terrible behavior is now actually celebrated. There does need to be a push back against fans acting like thugs and tv exploiting what’s worst in our society.
kesmarn : Friends, I wish I could stay longer but it’s work again tomorrow. Have a wonderful weekend. And don’t be a stranger, Em!
choicelady : AdLib – whenever mine is missing, I get the pushback “I hate spam”. I’ve never had this happen before but will at least TRY next time before panicking. I was reading for an hour missing you all terribly – for no reason!
SueInCa : I don’t know it must be the times but that display tonight was horrible
choicelady : Sue – didn’t see it, but it’s all over the Twitter universe with some people. Sounds awful – more violence and over a game. I KNOW they were screwed – or think they were – but this kind of behavior must END.
SueInCa : KQ you know what they say Happy Wife Happy LIfe
Emerald1943 : Sue, I’m not a baseball fan, but I do love my football! Some of those fans don’t act very nice either…sign of the times??
SueInCa : I know BFF it is really bad
KQµårk 死神 : Being beaten in a debate is no big deal. I’ve been married for 20 years and I’m 0-3475 in debates against my wife.
kesmarn : People are so spring-loaded to just go off. Saw a bumper sticker on a Dodge Ram the other day that said: “Heavily Armed/Pissed Off.” Nice.
SueInCa : That is funny Adlib proChoicelady
choicelady : Murph – he put something ON the lectern that wasn’t a hanky at the very beginning. I know he had one – what we do not see is from where he pulled it. I can’t figure why he’d so deliberately go back and take the note paper, fold it, and pocket it – Obama didn’t. That’s why I think he had his own that he slid in there. But the MAIN point was – why did he do a 180 on everything but Big Bird? He always had the poor Bird in his sights…
SueInCa : Acting like thugs not baseball fans
AdLib : CL – The names appearing at the top are referenced info and have nothing to do with who can or can’t use Vox. Sometimes there’s a delay until you actually start writing comments. Never let that deter you! I am totally pro-choicelady.
SueInCa : Bad call by the ump and the fans erupted throwing cans and bottles on the field
KQµårk 死神 : Presidents always under perform in debates because they have the toughest day job in the world, save for Clinton who probably is the smartest president we had at least on an intellectual level.
kesmarn : What happened, BFF?
Emerald1943 : Sue, what happened in Atlanta?
SueInCa : Did anyone see that disgrace in Atlanta tonight? Those fans were disgusting
kesmarn : And yet Obama is more steely and gutsy than Mitt. He proved that when he gave the order to take out bin Laden. He’s tough when he needs to be.
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice- I would love to think he pulled a Paper Palin, but I think not. The paper seen at the end is the paper on the podium for note taking during the debate. Obama was seen taking notes, but Romney apparently has a gift that I have seen other business folks use….big writing, key words, and hardly looking down at all.
choicelady : AdLib – I sent a note that I couldn’t get on, but I’d not actually TRIED, and that worked. Who knew you could send a message if your name wasn’t up there in lights? I’m good, so ignore the message please!
KQµårk 死神 : Romney had literally weeks off the campaign to practice for the debates. He’s good at memorization all he did was spit back prepared answers. When he did go off script he ended up capping Big Bird.
Emerald1943 : CL, you pegged Romney perfectly!
SueInCa : Hey Mruph did not see you come in eveinig
choicelady : Murph – I think you’re right. Now can the American people accept an adult who is calm and collected or do they want bombast, lies, and the Tasmanian Devil?
kesmarn : Yup, c’lady. Mitt had a “crib sheet.” I’ll bet he cheated all the way through school too.
SueInCa : I AGREE cl AND hI aDlib this new keyboard is killing me
KQµårk 死神 : Surf absolutely ‘hang loose’ is not a slogan in Hawaii it’s truly a lifestyle.
choicelady : Who believes in Hankygate? I watched it – it’s notes. Paper. NOT a hanky.
AdLib : Hey CL and Sue! Sorry, got a call but I’m back now! Welcome!
KQµårk 死神 : Of course the catch 22 is that we need to trust authorities without transparency which again I understand is difficult.
choicelady : kes and all – that meme of the private sector doing it more cheaply for us all is the most damaging thing out there. It is quite the opposite – it always costs more. Maybe not at first – but ALWAYS. Look – I WAS a contractor for federal programs, and we were paid terribly for our work. I know there is a place for temporary specialty engagement. But NOT PERMANENT programs because they pay workers terribly but cost MORE in profit demands. Remember the DOD and defense contractors with the $800 toilet seat and the $1700 hammers?
MurphTheSurf3 : A HAWAIIAN INSIGHT INTO OBAMA AND CONFLICT…Obama was raised by very laid back people in the most laid back of places…did you know that Aloha translates best as “I accept you as you are.”? He chose to become an academic and live in the world of ideas. He fell into his Illinois Senate seat and then won his U.S Senate seat without a real battle. His debate performance in the 2008 primaries was not great and never really got great- especially with Hillary. McCain? The GOP was friend so it did not matter. MY POINT- this is a guy who does not like external conflict. I have read that when he plays basketball he rarely shoots. He is the playmaker- setting up the pattern and then triggering it. Rough and tumble argument in the style that Romney used on Wed. is not his forte and will not be. The word from the WH is that his approach to conflict is to disarm it, to bring down the room temp and move all towards common ground. WHAT THINK YE?
Emerald1943 : KQ, I would have to agree with you. No killing is good, but are we just supposed to let them kill thousands of us? Seems like the lesser of two evils.
SueInCa : Good for your dauhghter Em. She is still fairly close to DC
kesmarn : Oh, Em, you should be proud!And thank her for all of us.
SueInCa : I am not much of a fighter but I am going after someone if after all my years working I get some dammned voucher
KQµårk 死神 : Thanks for you input on drones CL and Emerald. I mean I get the case against drones but the only other real alternative is to do nothing. Maybe we should do nothing more but sometimes we have to do something when we are sure about the threat.
Emerald1943 : I just want to tell you all…I am so proud of my daughter. She is working in the Newport News, VA area for the Obama campaign! She is on a fellowship and is working her tail off! I can’t believe she left her hubby at home in DC and took off to work for the remainder of the campaign.
kesmarn : Yes, when R-money kept saying that the private sector could do things cheaper, I kept wondering “what about that little ‘profit thingy’ you guys are so in love with?”
choicelady : Sue – I’m with you. WTF???
SueInCa : If they pull that CL you are going to see some proverbial you know what hit the fan.
choicelady : KQ – wow – saving two/thirds???? That’s freaking amazing. I know the issue – once you hit a (mumble) age, the premiums skyrocket.
SueInCa : When he said that BFF I was WTF?
KQµårk 死神 : Unlike what Romney portrays it’s Obamacare that is forcing insurers to compete for customers NOW.
choicelady : Sue – one thing you are NOT is a grifter! You have worked your butt off all your life, and you are anything but a “taker”. The overlooked issue in the “47%” tape is the TONE OF VOICE he used saying “they think they’re ENTITLED to health care, food, what have you.” That is NOT being promoted enough – he is sneering at the idea that you actually believe in “LIFE, liberty, pursuit of happiness…”
Emerald1943 : KQ, I’ve been on Medicare for two years and it is wonderful
kesmarn : Sue, I’d like to see Mitt and Ann on the voucher program.
KQµårk 死神 : CL last year she was quoted THREE times that.
choicelady : KQ – I’m fine. CONGRATS on the Medicare!!! And on your wife’s BCBS for such a reasonable amount of money!!!!
SueInCa : Romney will have me on the voucher program, I am 59 lying piece of …..
choicelady : KQ – as one with a friend who’d been on a peace mission to Iraq pre war and then heard of many of her contacts blown to bits, drones seem far more careful. Perfect? Hell no – but a definite improvement over shelling, bombs, what have you. War is disgusting horrible awful – but drones seem the least of the evil we could inflict.
Emerald1943 : Hey, KQ…I agree with you on the drone question. I still have those horrible images in my mind from Somalia. I don’t believe that war and killing solves anything, but that’s just too idealistic in these times. I make myself remember what those people would do to us if they have the opportunity, and the drones are certainly better than putting 100K soldiers on the ground over there.
SueInCa : K@ you are not 65 right
KQµårk 死神 : Like I told Kes, I got my Medicare card this week CL.
choicelady : kes – I guess my invisibility cloak worked for about an hour – now I’m “visible” at the top for some reason. How odd.Disappointin g, too – I’d LOVE to sneak around Romney’s HQ and tell you all what I heard!
kesmarn : Thanks, KQ. Truth.
KQµårk 死神 : ICU CL. How are you doing?
SueInCa : Emerald I was thinking of yu when Boomer showed up the other night
KQµårk 死神 : Great story Kes.
kesmarn : Are you wearing your stealth suit,complete with cape, c’lady?
Emerald1943 : Sue! I am so glad to see all my old buddies here, holding down the fort! I hope you are doing great!
SueInCa : BFF I meant voting exp
choicelady : Em! It’s great to “see” you!
KQµårk 死神 : I have an issue with the number of drone strikes (even though I admit I have no idea what the proper number should be) but in the back of my mind I think what if Clinton had drones at his disposal. He would have most likely killed OBL and we would not see Americans dragged through the streets of Somalia.
SueInCa : Bff good to hear and how ar you CL
choicelady : Hey – I’m ON – but my name’s not showing up. I’ve been knocking on the screen for an HOUR thinking I couldn’t get in. Does this mean I’m invisible? Then I will infiltrate Romney’s camp and report back the REAL things he says!
Emerald1943 : Choice!!! I am so glad you are here! I have thought about you so many times!
kesmarn : I read you c’lady. And Happy Friday, BFF!
SueInCa : Happy Friday all
kesmarn : Small anecdote. I hope not too much O/T. I voted early today. And was happy to see that the AA community is fired up and very much involved in the electoral process. Most of the poll workers were AA and they were the epitome of professionalism. I had a voting guide with me, and at the top the names “Obama/Biden” were visible. The woman working the polls said: “I’m sorry but may I ask you to fold that paper, please?” She was so concerned that some other voter might see it as bringing “campaign materials” into the polls. She showed much more concern for the rights and sensibilities of Republican voters than many of them have shown for hers. I was so impressed.
choicelady : Can anyone read me?
Emerald1943 : KQ, it’s hard to imagine a “single issue” voter anymore. Things have gotten so complex and complicated and there is an awful lot on our plates in this country.
AdLib : I will go on a limb and say that today was the end of Romney’s chance to win the election. The only thing that can happen in the debates is negative for Romney. If he “wins” again on lies and hostility, it won’t give him any more indies and in fact push more over to Obama. If Obama spanks him, he will look like he’s lost the only bright spot he had. Now he has lost the economy issue as being potent. I think he has nothing left to convince indie voters.
KQµårk 死神 : I agree AdLib especially when that issue is so narrow. Obviously I can understand a healthcare single issue voter more or should I say people who prioritize the issues they care about like most people do.
Emerald1943 : Adlib, I totally agree. He could not have been much more serene…if that’s the right word for it. I was yelling at the TV!
KQµårk 死神 : Obama’s biggest weakness as a pol is he’s not a good salesperson. Even W was not too bad a salesmen when he needed to be. Why because unlike Romney, Reagan, the Bushes and even Clinton, Obama is not a good liar. He even has trouble spinning things when he knows it’s spin.
AdLib : Emerald – I mentioned this to Kalima, I don’t think Obama wanted to be seen as weak as he appeared in the debate but he is keeping his eye on what Indie voters like to see, a calm and non-hostile candidate. Now that the MSM has plowed the ground for Obama to prove he can stand up to Romney, I think we’re in for a far different debate next time.
Emerald1943 : Hello KQ! I am so happy that all of you are still hanging in here! It’s really good to see all of you!
kesmarn : Yes. The real world is not a tidy, pretty, morally lovely place. And to abstain from getting involved until things are perfect is just false pride.
AdLib : Emerald – Nice to hear!
Emerald1943 : Kes, we just have to remember that THIS president plays 3-d chess!
AdLib : KQ – My feeling is that single issue voters are idiots. Are the drone strikes a valid issue of concern? Yes. Is refusing to vote and giving Romney more votes that aren’t cancelled out, contributing to the possibility of Romney dragging us into war with Iran and Syria and way more drone strikes around the world a smart move? Nope.
KQµårk 死神 : Great to see you Emerald. I think Obama still ‘lost’ but it’s not nearly as bad as people said. Romney won on lies and flip flops so it hugely dampened his ‘win’.
kesmarn : That’s been my sense too, Em. To me it was a lot like a snarky, arrogant, incompetent boss vs. a weary but brilliant, decent working man.
Emerald1943 : Thanks, Adlib. I have missed you all and hope to be back a lot more now.
Emerald1943 : Kes at first, I was really bummed out with the President’s performance, but I thought about it and I think he gave Mitt just enough rope to hang himself. The second debate should be a lot different!
KQµårk 死神 : I thought of Phyllis Diller too.
kesmarn : I’m with you, KQ. Pro-life means Pro Obama!
AdLib : Emerald, even livelier now with you here. BTW, we had a lively chat during the last debate and will have them for future ones so feel free to drop in for those too!
kesmarn : I hear you, AL. I had only the audio on on my computer for a while and I could not tell what gender it was!
KQµårk 死神 : I’ll bring up a tough topic. What about the purest Dems not voting for Obama because of drones? My take not even including Romney’s hawkish stance on Iran is that Romney would lead to more than 50,000,000 Americans being uninsured by ending Obamacare, drastically cutting Medicaid and voucherizing Medicare. This would lead to tens of thousands of more deaths just in America.
Emerald1943 : Hi Adlib! I trust you all are doing great! Looks like a lively group tonite!
kesmarn : What are your thoughts on the debate, Em?
AdLib : Kes – I told KQ that Jack Welch sounds like a drunken Cloris Leachman to me.
Emerald1943 : Hi
Emerald1943 : Kes!!!!! I am so glad to see you! I am OK…thanks for asking!
kesmarn : I saw an interview with him tonight, AL, and he sounded totally deranged. I mean seriously!
AdLib : EMERALD! SO wonderful to see you!!!
kesmarn : EM!!! I can’t believe it!!! HOW ARE YOU, GIRL?
AdLib : Kes – Welch is now claiming that Obama, the Trilateral Commission, UFOs and Bigfoot busted in on the BLS and threatened them until they fudged the numbers.
Emerald1943 : Hello, all you beautiful people!!!
kesmarn : Good news, KQ! Things are getting better. And the nonsense that is spouted about doctors not wanting to take Medicare patients is NOT true.
AdLib : Congrats KQ! That’s great news!
MurphTheSurf3 : Kes- in passing, yes…but we a bit eclectic tonight and the job numbers issue is on the table right now….so I say weigh in.
AdLib : Murph – Damn, wish I could have been there! Must’ve been kind of fun to see the racist right all pumped up than deflate like balloons!
KQµårk 死神 : and my wife was able to get BCBS for under $250 a month. It’s ridiculous to say HC insurance premiums are going up as fast as they were.
kesmarn : Hey Murph! Have y’all discussed Jack Welch’s jobs numbers conspiracy theory yet?
AdLib : KQ – Way to few to mean anything. And any low info voters leaning Romney after Debate 1 aren’t cemented in, after Debate 2, they could move into Obama’s camp. Such a small number anyway.
MurphTheSurf3 : KQ….I can guarantee the card will be good until at least the election- after that….it all depends.
kesmarn : Thanks AL! Since he’s really a self-made man, I give all the credit to him. And KQ! YAY! You soshulist, you!
MurphTheSurf3 : Hey Kes….
KQµårk 死神 : Hey Kes. Got my Medicare card this week. Yeah!
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…I was at a early morning meeting with a mixed group and all of the chatter was about how Mitt kicked “the magic Negro’s butt”(remember I live in Mo. the homeland of Rush)and then the word passed through the crowd about the new job numbers and it was as if something kicked the big mouths in the face….excellen t
AdLib : Hey Kes! Glad he’s doing so well! You should be proud of that boy and I’m sure you are.
KQµårk 死神 : It definitely takes any winds out of his sails abusing another metaphor. I think Romney still gets a relatively few low information voters based on the first debate.
AdLib : Especially when Romney refuses to give details on anything?
kesmarn : Hola, friends! Just off the phone after catching up with the son in Madison. All is well in the Land of PhD studies.
AdLib : Can Romney make an argument now for why he should be elected? “If I was President, it would be better?” Is that really a viable campaign theme?
AdLib : So…does this jobs report pull the rug out from under Romney’s campaign? Is there a reason left for any undecided voter to choose him?
KQµårk 死神 : AdLib I like that.
KQµårk 死神 : Absolutely Murph.
AdLib : If the GOP disputed the Wisdom and National Knowledge report (WANK), wouldn’t they be called “wankers”?
MurphTheSurf3 : KQ- we probably cannot argue this here- both too complex and too outside of the experience of most….perhaps in another forum…
KQµårk 死神 : So it’s still undemocratic since technically the government is run by a minority of cons.
MurphTheSurf3 : KQ Agreed. Parliamentary districts do not always reflect the popular vote….it is the electoral college issue we have here writ small.
KQµårk 死神 : Kalima spanked me for saying that once Murph so I looked it up.
AdLib : Murph – Need to think of more things the Repubs could dispute that would lead to an insulting term!
KQµårk 死神 : Actually that’s a Tory talking point. There are 304 conservatives and 254 Labour and 57 Lib Dems in the House of Commons with several smaller parties.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….”Thar she blows!”
AdLib : Heh, Ari Melber is calling those Repubs who dispute the jobs numbers, “The Jobbers”. That kind of has a double meaning, yes? I mean, you gotta hand it to them.
MurphTheSurf3 : KQ- understand your point about the Tories, but the Tory governing coalition does represent the majority of the members in the Lower House AND the whole thing can be dissolved via the vote of confidence or the dissolution of a coalition. We get locked into the mass we vote by our term structure.
KQµårk 死神 : Take care AB don’t let Faux News brainwash you too much.
AdLib : AB – What’s the difference between a paranormal convention and Fox News? One is a collection of believers in things that can’t be explained or proven and the others believe in ghosts.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- yes, BBC was the only game in town when I was there, very high nasally toned and dry…now there is some variety…now the Press…always been a bit looney.
AdLib : So glad you stopped in AB, I will indeed check out that email now! Get a great night’s rest, hope your oddessy continues to be a great adventure!
KQµårk 死神 : Our minority rule problem is actually easier to fix, the filibuster.
AlphaBitch : PS – we are at a hotel with a paranormal convention AND faux news in the lobby. Should I send the Blov on a reconn?
KQµårk 死神 : But Murph sometimes those coalitions lead to only a minority of voters getting represented like today with the Tories controlling the UK while most voters voted for left leaning parties like Labour and the Liberal Dems.
AdLib : Murph, right, I appreciate the Parliamentary system the UK has, what I meant is that election coverage is often asinine and absurd in similar ways in the UK and here.
AlphaBitch : Hey, I need to dash off. We had just rolled into the hotel (well, not literally thank God) and I need a shower. have a 6AM call to the Falls tomorrow, so can’t stay. Just wanted to say hi and bye and hopefully see you soon. Check that email, Ad. You’ll like it…
AlphaBitch : Ad: True dat. But they are trying to be so fair and balanced even though they will go the way of the dodo with funding cuts. All PBS/NPR – bye bye no matter who is elected. and my only alternative was Bejeebus stations.
AdLib : AB – Absolutely. Nate isn’t a pundit really, he’s a statistician. He doesn’t just make up numbers and opinons, he uses arithmetic (kryptonite to Repubs) then provides his analysis of why they are what they are.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad…the biggest difference in UK elections is that a voter has two choices in the BIG elections- what Party (or coalition of Parties) reflect your interest and which person running for the seat in your Parliamentary District represents that party. There are also local elections (very local with small numbers of people electing officials they know). It makes the whole thing more real, more personal, and more immediate.
AdLib : AB – There is no “he said, she said” to facts. He said facts, she said “I don’t believe facts”. That’s not two equal arguments, one is just unsubstantiated denialism.
AlphaBitch : Ad: Can I still believe in Nate Silver and Santa Claus???
AlphaBitch : NPR had the “he said, she said” approach to the jobs report. Anything of note that you guys caught?
AdLib : AB – That was my main message on Debate Night, ignore the pundits and predictions, they’ve all been wrong the whole campaign and the immediate moment doesn’t matter, it’s what issues have legs and keep pushing the electorate…lik e the 47%. The debate was really a non-event and boring to the average American, just the pundits and the politically involved such as ourselves see and explore the details.
AlphaBitch : Debate schmbate, Adlib. I just go for the “in your face” approach these days. no point in wasting time. And no one can accuse me of NOT being aggressive enough…..ask the Blov
AlphaBitch : So it’s rather nice to be isolated from all the analysis and stuff. I’m thinking most people are tuckerred out. Not a lot of signs/stickers anywhere.
AdLib : Murph – It doesn’t seem so different from US elections either. Perhaps a bit less silly, that’s all.
AdLib : AB – I gave up on the concept of debating hard core Repubs. I had a better success ration debating my morning slices of bacon. And they are deliciously stubborn…and crunchy!
AlphaBitch : It’s the Davy Syndrome. Remember the ALamo used to be in Mexico and all that stuff.
AdLib : AB – What an ambitious journey! Glad you and the Blov are safe and all is well! Proactiveness rocks!
AlphaBitch : jess, Ad. Sokay – just my newest “piss off” sticker
KQµårk 死神 : I wish.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib….lived in the UK for quite a while and the electoral process there is a bit quirky but more honest and straightforward than how we do it. Still that video does capture some of foolishness of the pundits unpacking the events of the night when results come in.
AlphaBitch : Blov noted trying to debate R was like trying to nail jello to the wall. Anyone else catch the jaw muscles working on O???
KQµårk 死神 : Puff puff give huh?
AdLib : AB – Been a bit nuts this week and fell behind! Did you email me?
AlphaBitch : I’ll have what KQ is having tonight, please.
AdLib : KQ – But only revised jobs reports under Repub Presidents are authentic, don’t you know anything?
AlphaBitch : did you get our message, Ad? Love the sticker? We made it across rural TN, KY and most of OH today without being run off the road. I’m a little worried about a break in tonight, but what the hell. Fun to be provocative.
AdLib : Hey AB! Thanks! What can I get ya?
KQµårk 死神 : Hey AB sup?
KQµårk 死神 : I mean that’s almost 600K jobs revised upwards in one month. I know the unemployment rate is a different survey but it just looks like the two surveys are finally converging.
AlphaBitch : What’s shakin’ bacon? Can’t a gal get a drink? A round on me for the house!
AdLib : The Sensible Party vs. The Silly Party.
AdLib : KQ and Murph: Perhaps this is the election update you were thinking of? «link»
AdLib : That’s pretty remarkable stuff, KQ!
KQµårk 死神 : People keep on forgetting that the BLS said the numbers from 2009 to March 2012 were upwardly revised to 386,000 Jobs and this month because of revisions over 200,000 new jobs were created the last three months than previously reported. So now Obama is on track to create over 500,000 NET JOBS his first term. That’s big big news considering the great recession and GOP obstruction.
AdLib : Hey, BRB!
MurphTheSurf3 : KQ-+- now I know where his strategy is coming from…actually makes sense…I think his gait is from the Ministry of Silly Walks….
KQµårk 死神 : Murph. We now know that Romney watches Monty Python too because he used the Monty Python defense when Obama pressed him on his $5 trillion tax cuts by repeatedly saying ‘No I won’t (cut taxes).’
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib- re. your last comment- yes you tend to «link»
MurphTheSurf3 : Hello and So Long Kalima- wish you could stay with us but you live a world away….hope your health is ok…..sending good vibes your way.
Kalima : Bye for now K.
Kalima : Hi Murph, pretty exhausted and it’s only after 10 in the morning here.
KQµårk 死神 : AdLib I’m sure there are conservative and liberal bifurcated dating sites out there as well. While I think I could never get along with a conservative spouse that’s still stupid.
Kalima : Aufwiedersehen.
Kalima : It’s trilingual and my typing sucks on my iPad.
KQµårk 死神 : Take care K. Great to see you at least for a little bit on VP.
KQµårk 死神 : I don’t like the Jewish folk or African American folk dating sites either. It’s just super close minded to me.
AdLib : Sayonara Kalima, you have a great weekend too!
AdLib : KQ – Then you definitely won’t like the Bagger Mingle commercials.
Kalima : After all the negative bs in the media, I don’t doubt he. Will fight back in the next de debate. ok, have to go, have a great Vox and weekend. Sayonara.
KQµårk 死神 : Can I bring up a pet peeve. Another ‘Christian Mingle’ commercial on MSNBC. WTF? What if you real soul mate is not a Christian? I always thought dating only one group was just insane behavior as well. It’s different than just having a different type you are attracted to.
AdLib : Take two: Kalima rocks!
AdLib : Kalima ricks!
AdLib : Kalima, you never told me that your computer was bilingual!
MurphTheSurf3 : Hi Kalima…gosh great to “see” you- how is the author of my favorite AM reading?
AdLib : Murph – This is what annoys me about the short sighted MSM but why I have remained so optimistic along the way. Last year the same thing happened as it has in most years. In the Fall, the economy usually gets a boost. Kids are back in school and more jobs open up, spending increases as the holidays approach, it’s not rocket science. Instead, the MSM acts as if there is no probable forecast for jobs in Sept and Oct and we should be biting our nails. Knowing that all Romney had to run on was the economy and that the economy would look better in the 2 months before the election, I have been confident that Obama would have and retain his advantage until election day…barring any unpredictable outside event.
Kalima : Sorry AdLib, I was fighting with my Google page, they had changed everything into Kanji and I can’t read a thing.
KQµårk 死神 : My last director was a black belt in six sigma. Ugh! He always tried to push it. The truth is the Japanese really invented it and it had to do with product quality. Every product had to have a one in a million or so defect rate. But trying to apply that logic to people is just insane.
AdLib : Murph – Yep, that’s why I made the “lawn” joke. He looks like one of those old white men who talk with other old white men about how miserable minorities and women are. And I thought dinosaurs were extinct.
MurphTheSurf3 : KQ and hello to you as well…..your life?
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib – if October is typical it will be a big month- retail expansion is normal, but I have heard from a friend at Target that the company is sending out requests for inventory replacement which means more orders and more jobs. So, the Friday before the election….anot her report….hmmm
AdLib : KQ – Excellent background info, thanks, didn’t know that! Not surprised though, GE is an bad player in so many ways and being one of the pioneers of outsourcing only highlights that.
MurphTheSurf3 : Welch on Hardball today looked like the cranky old guy who yearned for the days when slavery was fun (see the Arkansas legislator who has written a book that has that as a central theme)
AdLib : Murph – The dropping unemployment numbers could have a big impact for Dems all around the country.
KQµårk 死神 : Remember too Jack Welch was one of the pioneers of outsourcing as well. His (in)famous six sigma program required that 10% of the workforce be fired every year and be replaced mostly by foreign labor.
AdLib : KQ – Damn hippies! Get off of my toxic waste covered lawn!
MurphTheSurf3 : AH HAH- Well…it looks like the unemployment level in Missouri is going to come in at 7 Percent on October 19. Very good for McCasskill and for the increasingly Democrat action Gov. Nixon….
AdLib : KQ – Jack Sqwelch?
KQµårk 死神 : The whole reason Jack Welch hates Dems is because Clinton and Gore made GE clean up PCBs.
AdLib : Murph, we’re rolling now because KQ and I couldn’t wait to discuss the jobs report and the GOP meltdown so yes, the Vox Populi bar is open. What’ll ya have, Murph?
KQµårk 死神 : or Madam. I almost forgot how shrill he was.
AdLib : KQ – Add to that, GE pays no federal income taxes and in doing so, steals from the American taxpayer.
MurphTheSurf3 : Back again- are we actually voxing or is this a trial run for the politically addicted?
AdLib : Is it me or does Jack Welch sound like Cloris Leachman?
KQµårk 死神 : What amazes me is the hypocrisy of people like Jack Welch. Here’s a guy that lied to his investors and fudged his quarterly reports so much he was fined by the SEC. I think the GOP is all about projection these days. They know if they were in power they would stop at nothing including trying to influence the BLS so that’s why they accuse Obama of doing same.
AdLib : KQ – Coming on the tail of their proclaiming all polling is a liberal conspiracy, these claims just look like more craziness. Who but baggers would buy into their paranoia and denialism? Not indie voters.
AdLib : Murph – The BLS made me start early, I confess!!!
AdLib : Kalima, so nice to see you on Vox! I don’t think the plan was to look so poorly in the debate but I do agree that it was to play it safe and let Romney stick his chin out in the first debate. As you say, it’s clear that Obama knows indies don’t like aggression and he didn’t want to hurt his likeability numbers with them. Now though, it’s changed into and expectations game that he has to respond to and he has to push back. Indies won’t be bothered now because it will look like smacking Romney in self defense.
KQµårk 死神 : no problemo AdLib you’re still over half an hour early.
KQµårk 死神 : Rachel Maddow just said it now but I’ve been saying it all day. All the right wing apoplectic about the jobs report has done is fire up Obama’s base and turned off swing voters. I mean do they think any undecided voter will really think the BLS is can be influenced by Obama. You might as well say the sky is falling.
AdLib : Hey, sorry for the delay, I’m back!
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad LIb- I believe that it is you, personally who is responsible for this irresponsible manipulation of the BLS numbers- come on, fess up….you have absolute power!
MurphTheSurf3 : Hey there- you all started early….is this a conspiracy?????? ?? a jiggling of the time for startup?????? an Obama PLOT?????? the right wing wants to know?????
Kalima : All the more ammunition for the next two debates K, Romney can’t take it back, it”s out there.
KQµårk 死神 : I think that was part of their strategy but I think they wanted to counter punch more as well in the first debate. The problem was Romney threw out 3,4,5 lies in about every answer.
Kalima : Axelrod, pardon my tricky fingers.
Kalima : i think it has been Obama’s plan from the beginning to let Romney hang himself in the first debate and then go after him in the next two. axelrodd said that the reason he didn’t go after Romney in the first debate was because he didn’t want to alienate the Indies with a slug fest in front of millions.
AdLib : KQ – This is why Obama has to pivot to making it all about Romney’s character, then every slippery move becomes another argument for him to make his case.
KQµårk 死神 : It’s still going to be tough for Obama because Romney is so slippery. He just won’t answer questions or molds his answers towards the center.
AdLib : KQ – I know I said this but I think that now, Obama is insulated in going aggressively at Romney. Now that the MSM has attacked him en masse for not attacking Romney, when he does so, he would just be walking down a path that’s been established and authorized by the MSM.
KQµårk 死神 : He’s going to have to attack the lies and flip flops in some effective way for sure.
AdLib : I would love for Obama to chide Romney in the next debate. “There is such a thing as truth and truth matters to most Americans. You disrespect Americans by stating untruths just to deceive them into supporting you. They are not beneath you, they are equal just as they and you were created. Stop the dishonesty and come clean with the American people.”
AdLib : Thanks for the link, KQ, saw it in a comment here and noted it but didn’t have a chance to read it yet. I think that this signals the end of the GOP as a viable majority party. When their extremism has made acceptance of reality so impossible, it’s a quick nosedive down from viability.
KQµårk 死神 : Can’t wait to see it. This could be a good source from Alternet. «link»
AdLib : Or make that “The GOP and the Death of Reality”
AdLib : I got a bit waylaid this week but next week I plan to write an article about. “The GOP’s Killing of Reality”.
KQµårk 死神 : Absolutely AdLib.
AdLib : KQ – As cliche and silly as it sounds, an economy is affected by consumer confidence. I saw a bar graph today on MSNBC that showed steady growth in consumer confidence since 2011, right now 44% of Americans believe the economy is getting better.
AdLib : So funny, this is why I was urging calm after the debate, in the end, Romney’s BSing and Bullying would get him nowhere and this jobs report and the following debates will erase the memory of the first one. It really was an unremarkable, unmemorable debate and Obama was the most appealing to the indie voters which is all that mattered.
KQµårk 死神 : I’ll repeat this when the group shows up but we see the actual jobs number has been revised upwards by over 473,000 jobs this month so why people can’t see household survey jiving with those numbers is no real surprise.
KQµårk 死神 : Of course every place but RW media and HP has forgotten about the debate already unless you include Romney attacking Big Bird.
AdLib : And I see it as a 1-2-3 punch. First this report which will underline Romney’s BS in the next debate, second, the Biden-Ryan debate where I think Biden will smack Ryan down then the second Obama-Romney debate where he smacks Romney back. This is going to be very entertaining.
AdLib : KQ – SO true! We discussed this exact thing happening and it did, just as it historically has. I am thrilled at how this destroys the whole reason for Romney’s candidacy!
KQµårk 死神 : Can’t wait to talk about the jobs report. I think it’s a game change that the rate is lower than the magic 8% because it takes away the biggest RW talking point. That’s why the RW is so apoplectic about the numbers.
AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then!
On October - 5 - 2012
Categories: News & Politics