SallyT : Night, AdLib.
AdLib : Well, you’ve piqued my interest now so I’m going to watch it now, courtesy of my faithful Tivo. Have a great evening Sally, see you around the Planet tomorrow!
SallyT : I will let you go watch it. I hope you don’t get tired of me being the last one on here with you.
SallyT : Although, Rich did say that he was very proud of the President and the comment he made on the Martin matter.
AdLib : All Repubs seem like hacks on free flowing shows like Maher’s, they just regurgitate the same talking points like mindless lemmings.
SallyT : The other one on there is Rich Galen and you know is is the Repug.
AdLib : Don’t know her by name, may recognize her when I see her but the Daily Beast crew doesn’t impress me in general.
SallyT : Oh, wow! He is great on there tonight!
AdLib : I like Van Jones, had the pleasure of meeting him and interviewing him for The Planet last Jan at the Uncloak the Kochs rally.
SallyT : Elise Jordan
SallyT : You will like Van Jones on there tonight!
AdLib : Not sure who it is but I’ll bet I don’t like her much either.
SallyT : Well, hell, its just us again, AdLib!
SallyT : Oh, one last thing, I didn’t much care for the gal from the Daily Beast, tho!
SallyT : Never too many good nights, Murph. I’m not holding the door open!
AdLib : Murph – I’ve seen him around a bit recently, not a coincidence. I do like him much more than Rahm.
SallyT : Murph, he has a good discussion with him. And, the panel is good tonight, too.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ok…my second good night.
AdLib : Hey Murph – I’ll check it out, haven’t watched it much after souring a bit on Olbermann and not watching Current much. Thanks for the recommend, will watch.
MurphTheSurf3 : And yes, Maher looks like it is going to be a strong show tonight. He has the third Emmanuel brother on who is one of the most educated voices on health care in the nation.
SallyT : Murph, I usually watch her but I didn’t tonight. I will check it out. Good night.
AdLib : That’s a relief. I have my issues with Maher at times but I still watch the show and enjoy it sometimes.
MurphTheSurf3 : Came back for a second to really recommend Jennifer Granholm’s Current TV effort. She is really good and has fantastic guests. People you never say anywhere else.
SallyT : You enjoy the night. And, I will see you around the old place later.
SallyT : It was better than last weeks for sure.
AdLib : That’s usually what I watch after Vox! Last week wasn’t too good, glad to hear this week is better. Night!
SallyT : Bill Maher was good tonight.
AdLib : Thanks Sally for helping to make it another fascinating, fun and weighty Vox Populi! Have a great weekend!
SallyT : Yup, but they didn’t leave us much.
AdLib : Sally, looks like we get to finish the champagne and hors d’oeurves!
SallyT : Time for you and me to lock up again, AdLib.
choicelady : ‘Night everyone! Sleep well!
SallyT : Well, it is wet, wet, wet, wet here! But, you rest well CL and I will miss you next week!
AdLib : Night CL! Sleep well and have a wonderful weekend!
SallyT : I do have faith in the youth, CL. They are so much more diversified.
AdLib : Night KT! Have a great weekend!
choicelady : I think I’m feeling KT is right – that second glass of wine “done me in”. Nice seeing everyone if too briefly. Be well – and anyone under the rain clouds? Stay dry! Won’t see you next week at all, but definitely the week after.
choicelady : ‘Night KT! Sleep well!
choicelady : KT – oh it’s difficult indeed! But I was in a very weird position talking on the phone and via email to a leading Dominionist, and we wound up having some kind and pleasant discussions. Racists often can be coached if you begin with the fear they have that the world is passing them by and move out from that. They actually aren’t WRONG. They just tend to think – fear – people of color are getting things they are not even though the white people are working hard as all get out. So beginning where they are, frustrated and fearful, often works. It’s just paying respect to them as people. Might NOT work. Might work. Can’[t tell.
SallyT : KT, sweet dreams to you and your Johnson!
KillgoreTrout : I think I too must say goodnight. I love the Planet and the people who populate it. Sweet dreams folks.
choicelady : Sally - well, whew - glad of that!
KillgoreTrout : CL, I admit it takes a little practice and a good inner voice. I do find it very difficult to be nice to racisists and bigots. Haters. I can only attempt to make them see their own folly.
SallyT : CL, nothing serious. Just joking.
AdLib : Night Cher, sleep well!!!
choicelady : Oh darling Sally - WHAT wounds? I came in late - what's going on?
SallyT : Good night, Cher. I will sit here and lick my wounds.
choicelady : Cher - have a good night's sleep and great weekend. But if we stay out of trouble - what fun is THAT? Hugs to you and hubby.
AdLib : Cher - That could really be the mantra of the GOP right now, "Do what hurts your enemy whether or not it hurts you." That has been the whole mindset since Obama was elected. As much as Dems disliked Bush, he got far more cooperation from Dems than the stonewalling Obama has gotten from the Repubs. It's really on the verge of treason, how the Repubs have put party over country.
KillgoreTrout : Sweet dreams cher.
choicelady : KT - I remember the other KT saying that - Be nice. Yes,it's simple but not easy to do.
KillgoreTrout : I'm not so sure about that AdLib. It gives me a bad feeling.
SallyT : CL, I think we all feel that and hope nothing comes of those feelings. I felt it when Clinton was President. He made it through with his life. Brought on some bruises of his own doing tho.
choicelady : Kt - yes. America does have a spiritual sinkhole. We have been sucked into believing material success is everything, and that anyone outside our immediate circle is just looking to rip us off. Class warfare is just a larger version of dog-protecting-b one mentality.
Chernynkaya : Dear friends, time to call it a day. Take care and don't get into trouble!
AdLib : Killgore - Just remember when you read comments at Yahoo, they are written by a very small and recruited group of "Yahoos" who in no way represent the percentage of the public they represent on comment boards.
choicelady : AdLib - I fear a repeat of April 1865. I hope upon hope that never comes to pass.
choicelady : Oh dear AdLib - you freaking NAILED IT!!! Yes - those of us OUTSIDE the MSM and Beltway often have far more insight and calm consideration than those who are paid gajillions to be pundits. PPOV and a couple of other blogs have definitely achieved higher levels of accuracy in our assessments than any of the R or L hyperventillatin g places and commentators. We don't have ego or big salaries on the line.
KillgoreTrout : When Kurt Vonnegut was once asked what his advice to people would be concerning world matters, he simply replied "Be Nice." It seems so simple doesn't it?
AdLib : CL - You mention the assassination of MLK and the open joy it brought to racists...I do have concern for Obama but I know he's prepared and has the most high tech and prepared team protecting him.
Chernynkaya : Adlib, I like when, say, Maddow validates something I've thought of, and I confess to watching for confirmation bias too, but what you just wrote is something I've come to believe strongly.
KillgoreTrout : I do think America has a big spirituality problem. We are spiritually sick as a nation.
AdLib : Cher - It's a hard thing for people to accept, that the powerful and famous members of the MSM may be far more clueless than they appear and that the rest of us may be far more insightful than them than we realize. We don't have economic and ego agendas corrupting the way we see things, our career isn't on the line and we don't have ratings to worry about. We have the luxury of objectivity and they can't afford it. Think about how often people here at The Planet have been right about what's happening or going to happen down the line and how wrong the MSM is at almost every turn. In 2010, people here saw the Repub win as an eventual demolition of the GOP's image, when OWS started up, people here saw it growing into something huge, when the GOP pressed its War on Women, people at The Planet saw it and see it as being a huge turning point for Obama's re-election and that of Dems. I agree Cher, I look to you and everyone else at The Planet with a very open mind for insights that are really thoughtful and well reasoned. The MSM is just Professional wrestling, fun to watch at times but just a performance.
choicelady : Sally - staying the course of being humane actually works. NOT rising (or descending?) to the level of hateful filthy garbage matters over the LONG haul. I have been in discussion with a Dominionist over various first amendment issues, and I made a point that he ACTUALLY GOT! Of course I have no idea what to do now I won my point, but he understood me because I spent months getting to know him and being on good terms, never getting angry. And he's a very powerful dude. And we are now talking largely because I make him laugh. It's exhausting sometimes but - I MADE MY POINT! And I will honor him for hearing it. That is the power of calm, compassion, and reason - it DOES matter. As Obama continues to be who he authentically is, it DOES MATTER.
SallyT : Stupid thing indeed, KT!!
KillgoreTrout : True Sally, he did stand up and recognize his wrong. He 'manned up," as they say. But he was denouncing vigilante action, by giving the Zimmermans address so vigilantes could attack them. A very stupid thing to do.
Chernynkaya : CL,one of the wisest things my ex taught me was "Do what's best for yourself, not what's bad for someone else." As I get older,I see how many people want to do the opposite, and it behind most of the things wrong in our country.
SallyT : How the hell did I get compassion when I typed campaign????? Something is scary here!!!!
KillgoreTrout : Let's sure hope so CL. I've spent a good of time on the Yahoo threads concernig this incident and I have to say, those comment, in large part, are truly disheartening. The sheer nastiness and inhumane remarks is astounding.
SallyT : I won't be surprise to see terrible things come out in this compassion. They are so disrespectful of President now!
choicelady : ADLib - she was scary but accurate!
choicelady : AdLib - yes, and racism is a deeply present factor in every area, every state. White people also resent anyone who "gets" anything they don't, even if they don't need it. If you are fortunate to have affordable mortgages, good jobs, etc., stop getting mad at people who need help. Get down on your knees instead of up on your high horse - you are NOT in want and be thankful for it. (OK - the knee part is for the conservatives only.)
SallyT : No he didn't KT and he did make good to the people he hurt! That is something!
KillgoreTrout : Sally, Spike definitely did not "Do The Right Thing," when he published the Zimmerman's adress on Twitter.
AdLib : CL - Love that anecdote!
choicelady : Sally - I lived in TN in April 1968 when MLK,Jr. was murdered. The overt racism and cackling of joy were horrific. The subtext was amazing. But people were scared. Racists murder people who disagree - but people DID disagree! The tiny tip of humanity began to assert itself. I think Trayvon's murder is bringing us back to that even as the LOUD voices are the ugly ones.
Chernynkaya : Al. Exactly! Obama is +9 in Fl. And that's an average. I think. That;s what I meant much earlier--before this discussion--abou t turning off cable for a while. It's messed up. And they're not only playing us, they are honestly not as smart or knowledgeable as ANYONE on the Planet.
AdLib : CL - I kind of saw this coming, the Baggers kept pushing the boundaries of how much racism is publicly acceptable and though I don't think the majority has become more accepting of it, the RW look to each other's openness about racism and feel more comfortable expressing it plainly. Remember the Obama monkey dolls and other racist items at the Palin rallies in 2008? Be prepared for that and more at rallies headed up by whoever becomes Romney's VP.
SallyT : Spike Lee had to make a settlement with that older couple that he wrongly tweeted their address!
KillgoreTrout : Yeah, we have so much depending on our youth. They are much more tolerant. But the kids of those rednecks in the deep south haven't seemed to learn much tolerance from Mom and Dad.
SallyT : I don't think FL is racist as so many other areas in the south.
choicelady : Cher - I think I know you well enought to KNOW you were joking, but I loved her comment then and love it now!
choicelady : Kt - and yet, remember Geraldo's son said he was ashamed of his Dad's comments. That's growth.
Chernynkaya : CL--HAHA-- no, if you read way down, you'll see I was joking. But I LOVE that friend of yours.
SallyT : But, with all the voting changes in FL, will they be able to Vote!
KillgoreTrout : Good to see you CL. Their whelps indeed. Racism does get handed down like so many ragged clothes.
choicelady : Cher darling - why would you want to read stuff that makes you want to slit your throat? Years ago a vocal feminist overheard me decrying the tardiness of my students with papers when I said I wanted to slit my wrists. She bellowed, "TYPICAL female socialization! Don't slit YOUR wrists. Slit theirs!" Never forgot that.
AdLib : Cher - That is reality breaking through the MSM bullshit we're buried in. If Obama is ahead in a big way in FL, then FL does not have a majority of people who are racist or who support the murder of black teens by violent nutjobs. So, the image we have of communities and areas and the nation via the MSM is so suspect.
SallyT : You really ran with that one, Cher! But, I know where you are coming from.
SallyT : That is so true, KT!
Chernynkaya : HI CL!
Chernynkaya : Sally, I very rarely read comments, unless I want to become suicidal.
SallyT : Goodnight, Murph. I know I will see you later!
choicelady : KT - this seems as if Rush et al. have given permission for the lid clamped onto racism in the 60s is now allowed to BLOW! It's largely the same people as then, or their whelps. Scary really.
AdLib : CL - Not at all, always wonderful to see you whenever you're here!
KillgoreTrout : Happy trails Murph!
Chernynkaya : Goodnight, Murph!
AdLib : Murph - One to beam up, have a great weekend.
choicelady : Hey AdLib - good to see you. Sorry I'm so late!
KillgoreTrout : AdLib, I really do think this is a 21st century version of the killing of Freedom Riders and innocent Afro Americans in the 60s. Racism it seems is still very much a reality and almost as prevalent as it was in the 60s. Political Correctness has just forced it underground and this incident is bringing back to the surface.
Chernynkaya : Oh, I see now, Sally--the election. I agree it won;t be a factor.
choicelady : Murph - HELLO! BYE! Sweet dreams!
AdLib : Hi Choicelady!
MurphTheSurf3 : Choice...hi there...got to run but nice to say hello.
SallyT : Okay. Just said don't read the comments because they are depressing.
choicelady : Well, Hi and Bye Murph! Nice to see you if only for a moment!
Chernynkaya : BTW, Obama is polling way ahead of Romney in FLORIDA. How can that be?
choicelady : Hey Sally! How are you? Went out to dinner with a friend for belated birthday, and just now home. Hubby is doing overnight at "Safe Ground" for homeless people at his church. I'm kicking up my heels while he's gone!
MurphTheSurf3 : Well folks, I am running on empty, time to beam back up to my starship and warp away from the Planet. Engage....(Yep, I am a Trekker, too)
AdLib : Murph - We've seen all too often, unemployed Repubs supporting Repubs who want to take away their benefits, I think there will be many who willingly lose their healthcare and applaud it, proclaiming, "At least I'm free! And so are my visits to the emergency room!"
Chernynkaya : Look, I agree that there is a lot of racism in the US--a whole lot. But I also know that most American are not like that. Again, who elected Obama? He was black in 2008.The ones who write on posts are not your average, non-Southern American. I really think we have a skewed view of the country is we read comments online.
SallyT : Oh, I think the Feds will make sure he is arrested.
SallyT : Hey, CL, I was wondering where you were!
MurphTheSurf3 : KT- I think the prosecutor is probably correct about this. I want to put the legislators on trial.
choicelady : Hi everyone - I'm picking up the arrest of Z. thread and agree. Evidence is overwhelming that this was NOT an issue of his being threatened. How IS everyone?
SallyT : The point I was making is that the trial wouldn't effect the election anyway.
AdLib : I too think Zimmerman will be arrested, FL can't let itself be seen as so openly racist. And the Feds will make sure there's an arrest, even if it has to be as a violation of civil rights, as they had to use in the days of segregation and lynchings in the south. This will not stand and Zimmerman won't be able to weasel out of this no matter the amount of lies and attacks on Trayvon his family make. There must be justice so there will be justice.
KillgoreTrout : Murph, that's the least he should get. Twenty years seems more appropriate IMO!
Chernynkaya : It's OK by me if a trial is way off. Better to build a tight case than to go to trial and get him off on a technicality or well, like that Anthony murderess.
MurphTheSurf3 : Cher- I am finding the lack of action by the GOP authorities in FL as a proximate cause for civil disorder which is what they want. Yep.
SallyT : Unfortunately, Cher, there are too many that do. Khirad has noticed it also. It is very sad.
KillgoreTrout : Oh, no doubt cher. A lot of the fire branding is directed at Obama. And the hateful remarks that congratualate Zimmerman are a subconscious reaction to have an Afro American as POTUS. It seems so many people just can't accept such a reality. All fostered by extreme ignorance.
SallyT : I agree that he will be arrested but the trial is a long way off.
MurphTheSurf3 : KT A state's attorney I know says Zimmerman will be arrested and charged with voluntary manslaughter. He thinks he will get 3 to 5 years.
Chernynkaya : I didn't say they were all paid trolls. But they are trolls for the most part, ones who have an agenda. Most people are not online, replying to posts!
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib...I have not had any words with my GOP friends in Mo. re. the events at SCOTUS but I know that a number have benefited from Obamacare and are just beginning to realize it...I wonder when they will connect that to the GOP fronts in the High Court
SallyT : Cher, as KT said, I don't think they are all paid trolls.
Chernynkaya : KT, I think he will be arrested. if he isn't, I'm afraid we can expect riots. And that would play right into the RW agenda. They are actually egging on riots, I believe, in hopes it will make Indies scared and rethink a black Prez.
AdLib : Cher - Very good points. I too think that the image of the GOP as championing racist hate crimes, a War on Women, hate of the middle class, unemployed and poor is jelling and characterizing the GOP as a truly nasty group. They will pay a big price in Nov I think. And as you say, it's clear that the majority of Americans see what a horrible murder this was and how can they not see the GOP supporters of a racist, lying murderer in a terrible light?
MurphTheSurf3 : Sally...I am all in favor of arming the deers.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad LIb....ALEC is emerging as well funded conspiracy funded by the likes of the Kochs and the NRA
KillgoreTrout : I do think that Zimmerman will be arrested and tried. I have no idea of the outcome though.
SallyT : Also, they are trying to pass a law that they cannot restrict the amount of lead in a bullet! It is going to get dangerous out there.
KillgoreTrout : AdLib, I don't think the racist aspect will do much damage to the GOP, they are already considered racist by millions of Americans. What really gets me are the individual comments I've been reading, that are so racist an inhuman that it sickens me. I have no doubt that many of those comments are by dems as well as republicans. This whole incident has really brought out the more gutteral impulses in people. It's like a pressure cooker that finally blows it's top, mixed with the predominant fear that plaques our society, tied in with guncontrol issues. It's one big stinking mess.
MurphTheSurf3 : Cher...yes, in this case the trees do get in the way of our seeing the forest.
SallyT : These people and their guns! They passed a law in TX that you can kill a deer with a silencer! Why? Does the deer have a gun?
Chernynkaya : Sally, those are RW trolls and many are paid trolls. They do not represent the majority. If they did, Obama woulds never have been elected.
AdLib : Murph - I think it's all intermingled. The corruption of politics by the NRA and ALEC, the corruption of police by racism and power, the corruption of public morality by laws that protect unjustifiable murder. It's a vicious tornado of corruption and disintegration that sucks up everything in its path.
Chernynkaya : Murph, I agree with you--this is foremost a travesty of justice. One racist asshole with a gun, and the death of an innocent is bad enough; institutional racism and corruption is a national disgrace and a much bigger issue.
SallyT : Cher, don't read the comments on the articles! You will see that a lot of people believe Zimmerman was right.
MurphTheSurf3 : Like I said....while working for justice in the case of Zimmerman and Martin....the greater injustice is a law that encourages vigilantism and police who close their eyes to it.
SallyT : I am there with you, AdLib!
Chernynkaya : AL, I think the Right will suffer to the degree they are associated with the outright racism they displayed re; Trayvon. Parents of teens--regardles s of Party--know that they occasionally do dumb stuff on line. And deep down even those unenlightened know in their guts that there was sheer racism in the way the cops handled this. And the reason he was killed in the first place. It's a travesty. If I didn't believe the vast majority of Americans know this, I'd be too depressed to stay here.
AdLib : Sally - Now we see the America that the RW wants, they want to be able to kill people when they feel threatened by them and they now have laws that allow and encourage them to do so. It is these laws that need to be killed.
SallyT : I don't know about the GOP, they love this law!
AdLib : Murph - Right with you on that. The SCOTUS needs to be taken down a peg and shaken out of their ideological petrification. They are supposed to be impartial and they are violating the intent of the Constitution! Yep, members of the SCOTUS are violating the intent of the Constitution. They need to be confronted.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib...Young Mr. Martin and almost as young Mr. Zimmerman are caught in the public mind but the real issues are those of the abuse of law by the legislature and the abuse of legal process by the police. Every personalism is an effort to draw our eyes away from legislators who made very bad law and the police who have played along with it.
SallyT : I know one thing, AdLib, it had brought to light a lot of killings using this "Stand Your Ground Law" that weren't ever talked about before! That law is dangerous!
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib..like I said. haul SCOTI to the Well of the House and let loose the dogs of wordy war.
Chernynkaya : Thanks, Murph. But it's a lesson I vow to have learned. And a cautionary tale to Tweeps.
AdLib : NEW TOPIC: ZIMMERMAN'S CAMP HAS BEEN ON AN ALL OUT MEDIA ASSAULT TO DEFEND HIM AND PORTRAY TRAYVON AS A CLICHE THAT "DESERVED" TO BE KILLED. THE GOP HAS ALSO RALLIED TO THE SIDE OF THE MURDERER OF A TEENAGER WHO WAS BLACK. WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL HAPPEN IN THIS CASE AND DO YOU THINK THE POLITICIZING OF THIS IN RACIST TERMS WILL HAUNT THE GOP IN NOVEMBER?
AdLib : Killgore - We have a Facebook page for The Planet of course and that makes a lot of sense but I'm not one for personal Facebook pages. It's kind of funny, we fight a lot of our lives for the right to privacy but this new generation and time pushes us to voluntarily give it all up in the quest for socialization.
MurphTheSurf3 : Cher...you know your stuff and you are a genuinely prudent person...so you slipped....on the slick floor on which we all glide, not surprising every now and then.
Chernynkaya : See you, funk!!
Chernynkaya : I did a bad thing on Twitter today and still feel awful about it. I Tweeted a criticism of Steve Benen--a writer I really like. I didn't say it to his face, and I thought if I didn't write "@stevebenen" he wouldn't see it. But he did, and he sent me a private message saying he was trying his best, and that he works hard every day, and what did I mean when I said he's "Lost his spark?" I still feel terrible--apolog ized profusely and told him I learned my lesson--don;t Tweet before thinking. That's my best advice to anyone on Twitter.
MurphTheSurf3 : KT....we are on the same page in this Facebook thing...and a lot more too.
KillgoreTrout : Later Funk, take care.
AdLib : Murph - Exactly and conviction in the Senate is always unlikely but it sure should chasten at least one or two of the RWs on the court to be impeached. With their egos, they wouldn't want to be remembered in history along with Chase as the only other SCOTUS judges to be impeached.
MurphTheSurf3 : The Democratization of Anger via the Internet...quote from Jennifer Granholm on her Current TV show....love it. Actually liking her more and more.
SallyT : AdLib, the publicity would be great against them, too.
KillgoreTrout : Murph, I see so many reports of people getting fired for Facebook comments and some being charged with certain crimes. I see no need for a facebook account. There are so many negatives about it. I read a few articles that say prospective employes are now asking for passwords to Facebook accounts so they search the thoughts of prospective employees. The whole thing really does creep me out.
MurphTheSurf3 : AdLib...since impeachment begins in the House...to do this we have to retake the House...and then impeach them. Sure, I'm in.
AdLib : Night Funk!
SallyT : And, Funk, kiss the wife and have a great evening. I will miss you!
AdLib : Murph and Cher - Yes but impeaching Thomas could be a needed shot across the bow for him and all SCORUS members, that they are REQUIRED to be apolitical. Don't you think Thomas and Scalia might be shaken up a bit by such an impeachment, whether or not either is removed?
SallyT : Funk, always answer the Madam first or they charge extra.
MurphTheSurf3 : Funk..you are TOO funny...good night.
SallyT : Cher, maybe Thomas wouldn't be so lucky.
MurphTheSurf3 : KT..the Facebook thing spooks me too...maybe that is why I don't tweet well.
funksands : Folks gotta go, the lady o' the house is calling. I'm sure my wife is looking for me too. See you soon.
Chernynkaya : AL, but Chase was reinstated and cleared. He served out his life on SCOTUS. Bah.
AdLib : Cher - I sure think so and it's worth pursuing Thomas for perjury (I don't think it's tax fraud, it was a reporting procedure which he lied on for many years to hide her payoffs).
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib...he was impeached and found not guilty. So...no justice has ever been removed...amazin g really considering the number of crazies and incompetents who donned those robes. SCOTUS has always been a problem, but not one much talked about.
funksands : Murph, I agree with Cher, when I first got on, I just surfed around looking at what other people were doing and retweeting what I saw and liked. You pick it up pretty quick from there.
KillgoreTrout : Don't fell like the Lone Ranger Murph, I don't really get Twitter either. And I refuse to join Facebook. Too many prying eyes for my tastes.
SallyT : Them too, Funk! I added the 'e' to the Keys. There must be a hidden meaning......
AdLib : Murph, if Chase was impeached for letting his political leanings influence his rulings...why couldn't Thomas be impeached for that as well? Especially with his other "bad behavior"?
Chernynkaya : So, AL, if Thomas was found guilty of tax fraud, do you think that's impeachable? Or would he have to get a BJ? Or be found cavorting in the Wading Pool of the Jefferson Memorial?
MurphTheSurf3 : Cher and Funk....I have an account but literally have hit a wall every time I started to work it. Like I said, feel like an idiot.
funksands : Francis Scott?
funksands : Alan?
SallyT : Murph, that is why I am nervous. FL is a key state. And, it has the Keyes, too.
funksands : Murph, there is SCADS of tutoring and discussion, most of it on Twitter itself that can help you. Very easy to find. I think you'd be great on there even with your style not lending itself to being restrained by 140 characters
Chernynkaya : Murph, honestly, I recommend you sign up for Twitter, and you can follow us from PPOV who are on. Then you can follow some of the people we follow. when you feel ready, you can Tweet a commnet or a link. That's truly all there is to it.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sally..block registrations, intimidate and then create id hurdles...all to reduce the democratic turnout.
AdLib : Night Sabreen!
AdLib : Here's an interesting tidbit: "A Supreme Court Justice may be impeached by the House of Representatives and removed from office if convicted in a Senate trial, but only for the same types of offenses that would trigger impeachment proceedings for any other government official under Articles I and II of the Constitution. Article III, Section 1 states that judges of Article III courts shall hold their offices "during good behavior." "The phrase "good behavior" has been interpreted by the courts to equate to the same level of seriousness 'high crimes and misdemeanors" encompasses."
MurphTheSurf3 : SPEAKING OF TWITTER....can anyone give me a tutorial. I have an account and I do almost NOTHING with it. Is there a great article or video or coaching process for this...I feel like a first class fool and there is much I am missing out on...I think?
SallyT : Funk, I'm concerned about all the voting changes they are doing in FL. Makes me nervous.
funksands : Thanks Murph. That's good info!
KillgoreTrout : Sleep tight Sabreen. Sweet dreams.
SallyT : Good night Sabreen. Enjoy the rest of it.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib..FYI....Only one Supreme Court Justice, Samuel Chase (one of the signatories to the Declaration of Independence), has ever been impeached. The House of Representatives accused Chase of letting his Federalist political leanings affect his rulings, and served him with eight articles of impeachment in late 1804. The Senate acquitted him of all charges in 1805, establishing the right of the judiciary to independent opinion. Chase continued on the Court until his death in June 1811. In 1957, at the height of McCarthyism, the Georgia General Assembly passed a joint resolution calling for "The Impeachment of Certain U.S. Supreme Court Justices" believed to be enabling Communism with their decisions. The resolution targeted Chief Justice Earl Warren and Associate Justices Hugo Black, William O. Douglas, Tom Campbell Clark, Felix Frankfurter, and Stanley Forman Reed (as well as several unnamed deceased Justices) for "...[usurping] the congressional power to make law in violation of Article I, Sections I and 8, and violated Sections 3 and 5 of the 14th Amendment and nullified the 10th Amendment of the Constitution.”
Chernynkaya : ‘Night, Sabreen! Take care.
funksands : Night Sabreen!
funksands : How about Obama absolutely CRUSHING the GOP candidates in multiple Florida polls? That is a great sign!
SallyT : I’m there for ya, Funk!
Sabreen60 : Well folks it’s time to call it a night. Please take care. I’m sure I’ll see some of you on Twitter.
funksands : I set em up, you knock em down ST
KillgoreTrout : Murph, right on. The beautiful cinimatography of the Hubble’s pictures of distant galaxies, interwoven with the developing fetus was sheer mastery. The many river scenes and the elder son following his younger self through the “door way,” into the unknown was also masterful. That movie was soooo well done.
SallyT : Well, we know you would, Funk, but should we give one to Thomas?
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…the thing about Thomas (and Scalia) is that while there are many elements of their behavior that seem impeachable, the SCOTUS has NO RULES….it is exempt from the federal court code of ethics….making it almost impossible to recommend charges. I have read a good bit about this. It’s one of the major reasons why the topic is not even raised seriously.
funksands : No. I’d accept a colonoscopy though
AdLib : Funk – Well, I think Thomas left a DNA sample on a Coke can, will that suffice?
Chernynkaya : Sally and AL–Why we dropped the ball (so far) on Thomas eludes me. After the election, I hope we pick up where we left off. BTW, funk made a hilarious Tweet about Thomas. Funk–repeat?
MurphTheSurf3 : KT…I did see your Tree of Life response and I thought I replied to it…..can’t imagine how I could be getting confused in my blogging! Ok….it was brilliant and opened up several layers of new insight about the film. Suddenly entire sections made sense to me esp. as they link moments of creation to moments of a single person’s life….wow.
AdLib : The thing about authority figures is that they should always be put in a position to constantly earn respect from the many. Unfortunately, too many people grow up into adults having been taught to blindly accept authority figures DESPITE what they do that is morally wrong. Question Authority indeed and hold its feet to the fire.
funksands : I think Thomas should be forced to give a blood sample to prove that he is not a zombie.
Chernynkaya : funk–it’s an embarrassment of riches!
KillgoreTrout : Thanks Murph. I don’t know if you saw my reply to you about The Tree of Life being almost absolutely Taoist in nature. IMO, it truly was.
MurphTheSurf3 : AdLib…..wrestl ing mightily with a sudden outbreak of the sillies on VOX…..good for you…but much like herding kittens
SallyT : I think with more digging, AdLib, there is much more one could find on Thomas. I think there is a land deal, too.
Chernynkaya : Murph–Heh! if you watched, you might agree.
funksands : Ad, I agree. This was Goldman’s take. I found it intruiging
Chernynkaya : That’s my AdLib! That’s what I want to hear. Yes, you’re right.
MurphTheSurf3 : Cher….rooting for the zombies…..now don’t be going GOP on us now!
AdLib : Funk – But wouldn’t an impeachment of Thomas be going after the lowest hanging fruit? I mean, he committed perjury by not including his wife’s political payoffs for many years. That seems much more cut and dried than going after Roberts.
funksands : Cher! That’s awesome.
SallyT : Haven’t seen that Murph.
MurphTheSurf3 : KT–probably, but in Eastern Philosophies, I bow deeply in your direction.
Chernynkaya : I watch it funk, but I don’t like it. (don’t ask.) All the survivors annoy the crap outta me. By the end of the first season I was rooting for the zombies.
funksands : Murph, I’ve seen that. It was terrific
KillgoreTrout : Great points Murph. I am willing to bet that you know more Roman History than I do.
MurphTheSurf3 : Sally and Cher….have you seen the the Downton Abbey parody on line…Downtown Arby….laughed my self silly.
AdLib : Cher – Hey, how did that happen? Actually, I’m not saying that would turn out to be a negative, I think that the public SHOULD divest their trust and respect from this SCOTUS and by doing so, become more motivated to change things like taking more control over them with Constitutional changes to limit their terms.
funksands : Anybody here ever watch The Walking Dead? Found it on Netflix a week ago and am totally hooked.
funksands : I know that Peter DeFazio out of Oregon was starting an investigation into impeachment of Roberts. I wonder if that’s on hold because of the makeup of the House? Hmmmm
SallyT : Downton Abby is great, Cher!
MurphTheSurf3 : KT- we will have to compare notes. Octavian was brilliant and would not have been fooled by a murderous LIvia. But no problem, she was a great first lady and raised a large family of noble romans….much of the history of the period is misrepresented by later roman historians seeking to diminish th effectiveness of the mixed republican, imperial government and the emphasis on virtue.
funksands : Ad, that might even be more fun
AdLib : Funk – I don’t think one could prevail on impeachment against Roberts on that count…but maybe he could be prosecuted for perjury?
Chernynkaya : Murph–it’s surreal! Anyway, eclectic.
SallyT : Funk, you are getting your coke from the wrong store or the wrong dealer.
Chernynkaya : AL, how’d you turn the tables on me? Now I’M the optimist??
SallyT : Oh, hair Cher! It was a dog hair!
funksands : Murph, sounds like a master’s thesis in the making.
MurphTheSurf3 : Cher..The Ascent of Man meets the Simpsons…somet hing paradoxical there.
Chernynkaya : Sally–a PUBIC hair. Any other kind is not an impeachable offense.
KillgoreTrout : Murpf, That’s true, but I don’t think he was too far off the mark. I love that production.
funksands : Sally, they come like that now.
AdLib : Night Bourne!
AdLib : Cher – Normally, that would seem to be a safeguard but there is a rigid ideology in many of the justices that seems to make them thumb their noses at getting the trust of Americans. Bush v. Gore, Citizens United and if the ACA is stomped…there will be little trust or respect left
Chernynkaya : KT–that’s a wonderful series! I loved it. One ofn the things my son recently did is put a gadget on our TV whereby I can play all the series he’s downloaded from the computer–I have ALL “Connections,” The Ascent of Man, Downton Abby, America, plus all the Simpsons and Family guy–among other stuff.
SallyT : I say impeach Thomas because I found a hair in my coke.
Sabreen60 : Nite Bourne!
MurphTheSurf3 : KT…I Claudius is fun, but really bad history. Livia is unfairly maligned. Graves had a great imagination.
MurphTheSurf3 : Bourne…looking forward to the article…take care
KillgoreTrout : cher, I recently re watched I Claudius, and food tasters were in great demand during the Roman Empire. Augustus’s wife Livia wacked more government officials than Tony Soprano!
SallyT : Bourne, good night and looking forward to your information.
funksands : Murph, exactly.
MurphTheSurf3 : funk…not really grounds for impeachment, but impeachment processes would lift Roberts from the obscurity of the High Court into the realm of public spectacle. Could be helpful.
funksands : Night Bourne!
Chernynkaya : See You, bourne!
funksands : There are a lot of very serious scholars that feel the Supreme Court has turned into a legislative body. While not serious, I agree.
Chernynkaya : KT, AL– I’m for the Harmoniums. Those little critters would do wonders too.
BourneID : I have to go everyone. Interesting conversation; certainly timely. Lots to learn yet.
funksands : Ad, that he obtained his nomination by stating categorically that his court would be a court that would stand by “stare decisis” To let stand by that which is decided. You know, balls and strikes. Instead, the Roberts courts has been one of the most radcial LEGISLATIVE bodies in America since his confirmation. Goldman doesn’t necessarily think that the impeachment would succeed, but that a serious message must be sent.
Chernynkaya : I think so, Murph–I’m counting on that. Maybe even from Roberts too.
SallyT : Citizen United is one of those big issues with Occupy. They won’t like over turning ACA either since most are in college and need to be on their parents insurance.
KillgoreTrout : AdLib, LOL! I think they may be watching as we speak/type. It’s hard to get one over the Tralfamadorians!
Chernynkaya : Do the Justices have food tasters?
MurphTheSurf3 : Cher…the public trust issue is precisely why I think Kennedy will join the liberals..he is an old fashioned conservative who defends the little guy against intrusive government, but in this case it is the failure of government to intrude that is crushing the little guy.
SallyT : Cher, especially after Gore vs Bush and Citizen United!
Chernynkaya : AL–HEH– call Dennis Kuchinich with that request. As for me, I’m OK with his being Raptured immediately.
AdLib : Of course! Killgore! Contact Tralfamadore ASAP!
KillgoreTrout : That’s comforting to know. And, it’s about time.
MurphTheSurf3 : AdLib…years of teaching U.S. government history pays off every now and then.
Chernynkaya : KT, it will, and that’s something that might be in our favor. Dahlia Lithwick among others claim that public trust is important in the minds of the Justices. They have an interest in maintaining the Court’s reputation as honorable. And such a radical ruling would certainly undercut that–across the ideological spectrum.
AdLib : Murph – Thanks for the background on that, it does confirm that 30 year terms on the SCOTUS were not what the founders intended and that American government experienced previously.
KillgoreTrout : AdLib, I’ll get Killgore Trout on that ASAP! He knows quite a few of them!
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…I will make that recommendation as long as the Aliens guarantee to PROBE him….and you know where.
SallyT : Well, 20 years was a life time then. I don’t think you even have to go back that far. Most are 50yrs old and 70 was old age in the 20′s.
AdLib : Has anyone here been visited by aliens in UFOs? If so and if you can communicate with them, can you advise them that there is a very special man named Antonin Scalia who is the best human being for an alien abduction and probing. Please???
Chernynkaya : AL, that’s the truth. That’s another example of the differences in L/R mindset. And all I wish is that more Dems understood that the Right WOULD impeach, instead of just scoffing.
KillgoreTrout : Maybe this whole issue regarding the SC and the ACA mandate will draw further attention to the dysfunctional SC as it now exists. One can hope, anyway.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib and Sally….the average tenure of a Supreme Court Judge from 1789 through 1880 was 15 years. Some hung on much longer, but some others only served for a short time. A very different institution then.
AdLib : I think there is a real case to impeach Thomas but Dems simply don’t do those types of things and if retaking Congress, I know they never would.
AdLib : Sally – Good point, in the 1700′s, medicine was not this advanced and people didn’t typically live into their 80s.
Chernynkaya : AL, I was just going to ask that? How to impeach him?
AdLib : Funk – What grounds does Goldman suggest for impeaching Roberts?
Chernynkaya : Oh, I completely agree, AL–completely!
MurphTheSurf3 : AL…and considering that post retirement compensation can now be in the millions for speaker fees, book deals, consultancies… the FDR full time salary ploy is a wet noodle.
AdLib : Funk – I really like Goldman’s ideas, it would absolutely be a better thing to have a larger SCOTUS that was more representative and had 10 year terms. I’ll sign up for that!
SallyT : AdLib, people didn’t use to live as long. 20 years was a life time back then.
KillgoreTrout : AdLib, they are clearly not working as planned.
Chernynkaya : Bourne, it’d be better if you post that on the Off Topic ares. This moves too fast to read thoroughly.
Sabreen60 : Hi Bourne!
AdLib : Hi Bourne!
AdLib : Cher, KT and Murph – The concept behind lifetime appointments and pay was a decent concept but has proven to be a failure in numerous times in US history. It doesn’t work anymore the way our politics have evolved. It really needs to be changed to work in today’s atmosphere. There should only be one term and for a specific time, whether 10 years or more…though since most justices are appointed in their 50′s or older, it would seem to be most effective to have terms 20 years or shorter so we aren’t ruled by an elderly, out of touch cabal.
BourneID : I’m late. I’m going to post the info you don’t find in the health care plan. First hand experience as an active now retired federal civilian employee. You may be surprised that SCOTUS also benefits from the same plan managed by te Office of Peronnel Management. It’s incredib. My comment will show precisely my costs which are minimal. Bourne
SallyT : And, they should be easy to impeach if out of order! haha
KillgoreTrout : Hey Bourne! Glad you could join us!
MurphTheSurf3 : Sally..the conservatives are curdled cream de GOP.
MurphTheSurf3 : Hi Bourne
SallyT : Oh, I don’t know, AdLib. It is just so hard to replace one now that every 10 years would be too much. These are suppose to be the cream of the crop but they have gone soured.
funksands : Hi Bourne!
MurphTheSurf3 : SCOTUS Justices MUST be compelled to abide by the code of ethics for federal judges. That would help a lot….for one thing it would force them to break any ties with partisan groups and it would require them to abide strictly by all procedural rules…hear that, Mr. Thomas.
KillgoreTrout : cher, I do too. But alas, this time life does not imitate art.
Chernynkaya : Welcome, bourne.
BourneID : hello everyone
Chernynkaya : OH! Guess what? I DIDN’T win the lottery.
KillgoreTrout : Sounds like a good idea Funk.
AdLib : Sally – Why wouldn’t 10 years work? We have judges with 4 year terms that we vote for in every local election.
Chernynkaya : KT–I think of those witnesses all the time.
funksands : KT, Norman Goldman is advocating for two proceedings: 1) Start impeachment hearings on Roberts 2) Start procedures to get the Constitution changed to 17 justices serving 10 year term limits. Greatly dilute the effect of the Court.
MurphTheSurf3 : Cher…understan d.
Chernynkaya : Murph, I love Jared. I get his email daily, and as you may not know–I refuse to click on HP.
AdLib : Sally – Yep, Medicare For All would be a winner too. It really is just a matter of semantics, the Repubs demonize words. Change the words and you slide right out from under their BS.
MurphTheSurf3 : Ad Lib…Justices also have an amazingly sweet retirement program….full pay for life…FDR introduced that so he could count on their objectivity…th ey could act completely independently… ..that worked out great.
Chernynkaya : As you may know, the very idea of lifetime appointments was to prevent exactly what’s happened–partis anship. The idea being one would be out of the fray. I agree about 10 yr–even 20 yr terms. AND absolute prohibition of any political activism.
KillgoreTrout : AdLib, my fantasy would be that the judges were like Robert Heilein’s “witnesses,” in Stranger In A Strange Land.” Absolutely impartial.
SallyT : AdLib, I don’t think reappointing every 10 years would be possible. But, I do think that once they get to a certain age, like 75, they should get the hell off the bench.
funksands : Sabreen my wife is in daily agony over this. And we HAVE insurance on all of us. But you never know what the future holds.
AdLib : Funk – Very pleased to hear your son’s doing better and better!
MurphTheSurf3 : Cher…you might find jared bernstein’s analysis of interest
AdLib : On my fantasy Constitutional Amendment list is changing SCOTUS terms to 10 years. That way, they wouldn’t come up until another President’s term comes up and you don’t get stuck with monsters like Scalia wreaking destruction for untold years. Why do they need to be lifetime appointments?
Sabreen60 : Funk you are a strong and loving parent. I know this debate must seem almost unbearable to you.
funksands : Thanks KT / Sally.
Chernynkaya : Murph, sorry you went to the trouble–you just missed my earlier comment. Thanks.
SallyT : AdLib, Medicare For All would be accepted to, I think.
KillgoreTrout : That’s great to hear Funk. My best wishes.
MurphTheSurf3 : Cher…her is the link to an analysis of the CBS/NYT poll..«link» .huffingtonpost. com/jared-bernst ein/polling-the- aca_b_1381386.ht ml
SallyT : That is wonderful, Funk!
Chernynkaya : I’m certain both your wife and you are tremendous advocates.
funksands : Murph, yes that pretty much covers it.
funksands : Cher, thanks but my son is getting better every year. He’s really lucky to have his mother. She’s dedicated her life to advocating for him.
AdLib : Cher – It is a GOP propaganda victory, thanks to the backing of many millions of the Kochs, Rove’s group etc. that poisoned the public’s mind about “Obamacare”. If you took all the same elements and just introduced it as “The Compromise Healthcare For All Plan”, the majority of the public would support it.
SallyT : Oh, yes KT. He hangs with the Koch Brothers!
KillgoreTrout : Sally, I bet he is NOW! Off the books of course.
Chernynkaya : What the polls especially illustrate is how ignorant the public is about what ACA does.
Chernynkaya : Murph,please don;t bother–I put up the polls daily . I’ve seen them all. thanks though.
SallyT : KT, he wasn’t that rich before he was appointed.
Chernynkaya : funk, my heartfelt sympathies, but thank god, your son has YOU.
SallyT : Cher, they do want healthcare but the mandate crap has just clouded everything.
MurphTheSurf3 : Cher…the polls show that a little less than half want ACA gone UNTIL you start asking about each of the major elements of the plan and then the numbers to retain it jump into the 60′s. I think it is a CBS poll. I will try to find it.
KillgoreTrout : Sally, he’s rich. No worries. It’s the “I got mine, screw you,” mentality.
AdLib : Really, that’s infuriating! Scalia haws government run health care that he depends on and otherwise might not be able to be covered…and as long as he’s got his, fuck 99% of Americans?
SallyT : I think he has a heart condition. I wish someone would have asked him about that. How would you get insurance, Justice Scalia?
Chernynkaya : Murph, the polls, as usual, are contradictory on the popularity of ACA, but my gut tells me people WANT more govt health care.
MurphTheSurf3 : Funk…I did not know….what a burden and to have Scalia who is a poster boy for major cardiac arrest pontificating knowing that if he has an attack I will be paying for his care, the best care the nation has to offer. Sickening. It must be truly disgusting for you.
KillgoreTrout : Funk, these bastards don’t ever have to worry about healthcare. Their plans (which we pay for) are the best.
SallyT : Doesn’t Scalia have a condition that if he wasnt on the court/lost his job, he wouldn’t be able to get insurance because of pre condition?
Chernynkaya : The GOP platform is something only the Onion could write: Kill Medicare, tax increases for the poor, decreases for the very rich, no education, no health care and more military. And war with Iran. And this is a winner?!!
AdLib : Murph – Then since millions of Americans will lose health care if the SCOTUS rules against the ACA and some of them may die because of that, isn’t the SCOTUS truly taking on the role of a Death Panel? And in those black robes, all they have to carry are scythes and the picture is complete.
funksands : Murph I’m right there with her. My autistic son has heart issues, marfan syndrom and cyclic vomiting syndrome, and to hear the that fucker Scalia beatboxing up their in his discraced robes is almost too much for me.
Chernynkaya : OOOH, finally got it.
AdLib : Cher – Ryan and Romney say kill Medicare, SS and call our generals liars. Sounds like a winning platform. Speaking of that, can you imagine what the first Bagger influenced Repub platform will sound like???
Chernynkaya : Funk, it’s almost too much fodder for those ad writers.
KillgoreTrout : Romney and Ryan joined at the hip! definitely Siamese Twits!
MurphTheSurf3 : Just got a phone call from a woman whose son will be without insurance if ACA is overturned. He has a very serious condition that affects his trachea and larynx but which can be lived with when proper care is provided….she is part of an organization of chronically ill children and they are planning an assault at every level of government featuring envelopes stuffed with medical case histories, their financial history and their insurance history. The cover letter will begin with: ” Dear XXXX….if my Son (Daughter) dies because he/she was not insured, I am holding you personally responsible.” There is a level of rage out there which I think has not been felt for a very long time.
funksands : Romney/Ryan joined at hip…
Chernynkaya : KT, wait–what? Missed that reference.
AdLib : Thanks for the link Funk, very satisfying to see Ryan nailed like that.
KillgoreTrout : cher, Siamese Twits?
Chernynkaya : Sally, I haven’t tripped in ages! but there’s always hope.
SallyT : FunK! don’t start with me. You hate it when I pull out my native tongue, or stick out my native tongue.
funksands : Cher, they better have about a 1000 interns sitting a sweatshop somewhere churning out copy…
Chernynkaya : I hope the Obama campaign uses that quote for the general, funk. Because Romney/Ryan are joined at the hip.
funksands : Sally: 欢迎
SallyT : Cher, you still standing?
AdLib : Hey Sally!
funksands : Here’s the JC article: «link»
Chernynkaya : Well, it’s SALLY!!
KillgoreTrout : Well good to see you!
SallyT : I had the computer on but not on, KT.
AdLib : Funk – Thanks for filling me in on that, very pleased to hear the General hammered that insult by the chickenhawk Ryan back at his head.
KillgoreTrout : Sally, were you lurking about in the shadows? Bwaaaaaaaaa!
Chernynkaya : Thanks for the correction funk. That’s even better.
AdLib : Cher – After the Baggers pushed the nation to the brink of default over raising the deficit ceiling, which was unprecedented, I knew from then on that they are deceitful trash who would let the country be destroyed in their quest for ideological victory.
KillgoreTrout : cher, a turd by any other name is still a turd, and Ryan is surely that.
SallyT : Is the night still young?
funksands : Cher, it was the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. I think he might have been a bit pissed.
Chernynkaya : I’m thrilled the General responded to Ryan and I only wish it got huge publicity. I mean–really??
funksands : Sabreen, the Dem Super-Pac needs an ad that simply says: “If you are not wealthy, Paul Ryan thinks you are a parasite”.
AdLib : Funk – The Dems held Congress for over 20 years, that’s a long time. That can happen again but it takes decisive and bold action while in office.
KillgoreTrout : Boy the GOPers sure put their faith in the generals during the Iraq war, didn’t they!
Chernynkaya : As an example of not understanding the RW thinking–did anyone anticipate that they would renege on the deal they struck about the SuperCommittee? who would believe Congress would simply go back on their word? I’m not being snarky–it’s unprecedented.
funksands : The General’s response IN BETWEEN FLIGHTS back home from C. America: “There’s a difference between having someone say they don’t believe what you said versus … calling us, collectively, liars,” he said, according to the Wall Street Journal. “My response is: I stand by my testimony. This was very much a strategy-driven process to which we mapped the budget.”
KillgoreTrout : No doubt Funk. They are masters at terrorizing their base.
AdLib : FUnk – That should be a meme, “Top Republican Calls US Generals Liars!”
funksands : Ad, that happens from time to time, and then they re-take power.
Sabreen60 : Funk, Rachel also mentioned that Paul Ryan makes his staff read Ayn Rand. So that’s who he worships and why he doesn’t give a shit about Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid.
KillgoreTrout : Well cher, we can always expect the GOPer to start from as far as possible from the point of reason. Reason is the GOPers main enemy.
AdLib : Cher – When it comes to propaganda and destructiveness, I agree, the Repubs can never be underestimated. But take away their power and they are disarmed.
funksands : KT, they love to live in fear. It defines them.
funksands : Ad, how do think Hawaii became a state? All part of the master plan.
AdLib : Funk – Obama is cunning but that’s how all Nigerian/Soviet/ Muslim/Atheist/M arxist/Communist /Anti-Christ/Man churian Candidates are.
funksands : Did you catch Maddow’s clip of Ryan saying that the reason his budget calls for more military spending is because the generals aren’t being honest about how big they think their budget should be? What the F? I did like the Joint Chiefs repsonse though. What a little turd that guy is.
Chernynkaya : AL, what you say about the Dems–I think there’s another dynamic I’m seeing. I think liberals and even moderates are at a disadvantage vis a vis the TeaPubs. We keep thinking they’ll be reasonable and sane. That’s why so many people were shocked at what they perceive as SCOTUS’ apparent reaction to ACA–we keep forgetting their essential nature–like the scorpion parable. These people are cynical, evil and treasonous, and dems never accept that truth. so, we never really understand them or anticipate what they will do.
KillgoreTrout : Funk, isn’t it amazing how the GOPers just won’t let go of the Cold War? I think they are just grasping straws in desperation.
AdLib : And all of the potential terrorists that have been stopped and caught before they committed a terrorist act.
funksands : Ad, I hear he selling the Washington Monument to the Soviets. They’re still out there you know my friend.
KillgoreTrout : And many of al Quaida’s top leaders, who are now taking a long, long dirt nap!
MurphTheSurf3 : Watching Elliot Spitzer, the Current TV, Olbermann replacement now that KO melted down again….he does not play well with others especially when he thinks he is in charge…..I wonder if Spitzer will help or hurt Granholm as a lead in…..Oh well back to the SCOTUS.
AdLib : Funk, ask them if he’s kowtowing to Bin Laden and Gaddafi.
funksands : Hi Ad / Sabreen / Cher. Great to see you!
KillgoreTrout : How can a person’s dietary choices be compared to something far more necessary as healthcare? The broccoli argument is just plain ridiculous.
Sabreen60 : Hi Funk!
KillgoreTrout : You’re a braver man than I Funk! At least a lot more tolerant.
MurphTheSurf3 : THE ARGUMENT THE SOLICITOR GENERAL SHOULD HAVE MADE BEFORE THE COURT REGARDING BROCCOLI…….. .I am repeating this because I think it is BRILLIANT….Joh n Stuart Mills, the British utilitarian economic philosopher, said that government must act if its failure to act allows harm to continue against its citizens. Conservatives have embraced the limiting principle. Mill’s limiting principle shuts down the broccoli argument. The failure of a significant number of our citizens to have insurance shifts responsibility for it from them to the rest and does the rest harm. Thus, per the conservative creed of personal responsibility and the unfairness that comes with strangers having to bear burdens that belong to others, the government MUST step in to undo the harm being done. This is why the Mandate was the front line defense against Hillarycare. There is more about this idea at «link»
KillgoreTrout : I think the mindless naysayers of today just might get past their pseudo objections once they see the quality of their lives improved.
AdLib : Hey Funk!
funksands : Hey KT, just trying to make it through another day of Obama’s failed policies and kowtowing to foreign leaders. You know. Friday at the GOP-in laws
AdLib : Cher – That’s why I think there has to be a “winner” mentality if the Dems and Obama win it all back this year. Instead of being Progressive but careful as I think the Dems were a bit too much the last three years, they need to really make some big changes so that elections aren’t a game of inches, it’s a game where the Dems reclaim majority party status as the people’s party by addressing the big issues in strong ways. That said, Obama has presided over some pretty remarkable accomplishments in just 3 years, all with the backdrop of a near record Depression. They have done pretty well with a handicap but if the economy continues to recover, they can’t play it safe, they need to go for the 20 year win.
Chernynkaya : Howdy funk!
KillgoreTrout : What’s up Funk?
Chernynkaya : Hope so, KT. What we forget is how incredibly long it takes for facts to sink in, for policy to have effects, and that’s why repetition is so crucial.
funksands : Hello everyone!
KillgoreTrout : cher, I think once Obama’s policies are given the time they need to really show their benefits to everyone, we may still have a chance in 2016. Once average Americans start to reap the benefits of Obama’s policy.
Chernynkaya : Totally agree, Sabreen.
Sabreen60 : It appears that Scalia didn’t know that the “Cornhusker Kickback” was taken out the bill. Didn’t he say something about not reading the bill. I don’t think Scalia, Thomas, Alito and probably Roberts give a damn what the arguments are because they have probably already made up their minds. If Roberts didn’t care how history will look upon his court because of the way the Court voted in Citizens United, why care now? Scalia certainly didn’t care about the outcome of Bush v Core. He said when confronted about it “get over it”. These people think they are gods.
Chernynkaya : Absolutely, AL, and it’s not as if he doesn’t have clerks to read it for him. What a disgrace. But as you know, only one Justice was ever impeached and he was caught stealing, I think.
AdLib : Scalia said in the hearings that having to read through the ACA to do his job and determine it’s constitutionalit y. on this massive and ground-shaking decision that will greatly impact the future of our nation…is akin to torturing him. WHat kind of an asshole like that is allowed to be put in such a position of power? And he railed against the Cornhusker Kickback, using that Repub term for it…which isn’t even in the bill he doesn’t want to read! He should be impeached for total unprofessionalit y and incompetence.
Chernynkaya : And there is a real possiblity that in 2016 a Repub will win, based only on how voters behave. But I won’t worry about that yet.
KillgoreTrout : It really erks me that our justices are NOT impartial, as they were created to be.
MurphTheSurf3 : BROCCOLI NONSENSE John Stuart Mills, the British utilitarian economic philosopher, said that government must act if its failure to act allows harm to continue against its citizens. Conservatives have embraced the limiting principle. Principles that build upon necessity have been conservative watchwords until the Ayn Rand neo-libertarians took control of the GOP. Mill’s limiting principle shuts down the broccoli argument. The failure of a significant number of our citizens to have insurance shifts responsibility for it from them to the rest and does the rest harm. Thus, per the conservative creed of personal responsibility and the unfairness that comes with strangers having to bear burdens that belong to others, the government MUST step in to undo the harm being done. This is why the Mandate was the front line defense against Hillarycare. There is more about this idea at «link»
KillgoreTrout : That is good news, for sure. It’s good to know that at least a few of them have integrity.
Chernynkaya : Why do Justices live so long anyway? Great healthcare, sure, but jeez, what genetics.
Chernynkaya : KT, I’ve read comments from Repub jurists who said Scalia was appalling. “Beneath contempt” was the phrase Reagan’s SG used for Scalia.
AdLib : Even if Obama is re-elected, as I think he will be, I don’t know that the balance of the court could shift to the liberal side during his next term. Scalia is the oldest of them and 76 now, he could hang on until 81 or much older if not suffering from a health issue. We could be two Presidential terms away from that possibility.
KillgoreTrout : I’m really curious to see how the media is going to habdle this whole issue. I suppose there will be the usual suspects backing their particular POV.
Chernynkaya : AL, I was so depressed at his performance. And I’m sure he’s practically suicidal. He has a reputation for being a wonderful person, but as I read about him, no one said he was especially brilliant. I honestly don’t know. His record of wins before the Court is 2/5.
AdLib : Hey Sabreen!
AdLib : Cher – Even the best ballplayers have bad games. Virelli may be experienced and have argued other cases well, maybe he was overprepared, who knows but he should have been prepared and armed to bat away the broccoli argument that we all knew was coming. We shouldn’t be better lawyers than the Solicitor General but you and others here shot holes through it so easily…why couldn’t he???
KillgoreTrout : Good evening Sabreen. Agita is the correct word, for sure!
Chernynkaya : Hey Sabreen!
KillgoreTrout : It seems their decision surely will rest on Kennedy’s shoulders.
Sabreen60 : Hiya folks. I read your comments and the SCOTUS gives me agita.
AdLib : Killgore – Thomas, Alito and Scalia would absolutely shoot down the whole ACA for political reasons and to hurt Obama, I do think so. Would Roberts and Kennedy? I don’t know.
Chernynkaya : AL, I’ve read a lot agreeing with you. But as an aside, wTF happened to poor Virelli? I mean, he’s been before the Court many times. Just awful.
KillgoreTrout : I hate broccoli!
AdLib : People are trying to spin the ACA ruling based solely on the oral arguments but the fact is that those are only a portion of the decision process and being adversarial is part of the game for many SCOTUS justices. In the end, if Kennedy buys into Scalia’s broccoli bullshit, he is an absolute idiot.
Chernynkaya : Did anyone catch the Pres speech today? Vintage, amazing and the crowd–who paid–was wild.
KillgoreTrout : I wonder, would the SC shoot down the mandate just to make Obama look bad? It wouldn’t surprise me.
KillgoreTrout : thanks cher.
Chernynkaya : KT the ruling scheduled for late June.
AdLib : Murph – That’s a big question mark for me, whether Roberts sees driving a stake through the heart of social programs as a good or bad thing to have remembered under him and his court. I don’t know…
KillgoreTrout : When is the latest date the SC has to make their final decision?
Chernynkaya : That makes sense, AL.
AdLib : Cher – Yes, not only would the Repubs refuse to confirm anyone this year, in hopes of filling that seat after the election through President Romney but it would be a huge rallying cry for Repubs to cement a coup over the SCOTUS. Also, whoever was nominated would be wasted, hung out to dry and burned out even if Obama won re-election (as I think he will). So, there’s no benefit to it before nexte year.
MurphTheSurf3 : AL – I am with you. Thomas and his TP wife are examples of what happens when zealots are given seats at the high court. They sit there and say nothing planning to do one thing only, vote to preserve the plutocracy.
Chernynkaya : Murph, I think you’re right, maybe.
KillgoreTrout : great point Murph. That makes a lot of sense.
Chernynkaya : Oops, meant if ACA was overturned.
AdLib : Murph – Thomas committed perjury or fraud in his non-reporting on his wife’s political earnings and of course Dems wouldn’t pursue impeachment…bu t if the tables were turned and one of the liberal judges did that, the Repubs would hit the impeachment button so fast and so hard.
Chernynkaya : AL, I see–she is worried no one could be confirmed?
MurphTheSurf3 : KT…Roberts gives a nod to propriety and has a concern about the the legacy of HIS court. It is for that reason that if Kennedy goes with the libs, I think he will join them just to give his court some credibility in history.
Chernynkaya : One if the most irritating memes this week was how if CA overturned it’ll be good for Obama’s election. First, he doesn’t need any help. But second–NO, it’ll be bad for us all, and create chaos to boot. And what;s the point of having a good Prez if the Court can stymie him?
KillgoreTrout : Murph, Roberts too.
AdLib : Cher – Ginsburg has sent out hints that she wants to retire but doing so in an election year would be dangerous. She’s hanging on in hopes that Obama will win re-election, IMO.
MurphTheSurf3 : kT- in that the SCOTUS is exempt from the code of ethics that governs all of the rest of the federal judiciary I am not at all surprised by their unrepentant affiliation with the worst of the right wing (alito, scalia and thomas)
Chernynkaya : Me too, AL. But then there’s Alito–pretty young and vigorous. And of course, Uncle Thomas.
KillgoreTrout : I agree cher. If the SC isn’t put in check, then our democracy won’t be worth the paper it’s written on.
AdLib : I have to admit, I wake up some mornings just hoping to hear that Scalia is no longer able to serve on the SCOTUS. He’s someone who may have to be impeached, he would stay on even if he was mostly incapacitated, just to keep tearing apart every social program and our democracy.
Chernynkaya : To be honest, I think Ginsburg is slowing shriveling up and dying as we speak. In a way, I wish she would quit while Obama is definitely in office.
KillgoreTrout : Murph, I think the SC judges should be made to disavow ANY affiliation to either party. They’re supposed to be completely unbiased in their decisions.
MurphTheSurf3 : Cher…your worries about the low infos, the easily culled, the quickly misled, are very real. Give all that the GOP has done to the middle and lower class and not done for them…how can they be even close in any polling at any level. Between the hateful base, and the foolish non committed they hold on to 45 percent of the vote without trying. Inane and insane.
Chernynkaya : The SCOTUS is terrifying. This court, if they overturn ACA, can overturn SS, Medicare–almost anything.
AdLib : Murph – So true about the SCOTUS, especially since we could have two of the liberals retiring in the next 4 years. Can you imagine what hell would be cemented into the nation with a 7 vote RW majority in the SCOTUS???
Chernynkaya : AMEN, Murph.
Chernynkaya : The people I worry about are the low-infos. I worry that they will pay attention just before the election, not knowing all the lies and hatred the Right has spewed. I worry that the EtchASketch will work. But then remind myself that Obama will be putting out tons of ads too.
AdLib : It’s a bit early to make a supremely confident prediction but I think it’s very possible for Obama to win by 6% which would be a landslide electorally and could very well turn the House blue.
MurphTheSurf3 : The DRAMA AT THE SCOTUS last week provides another clear reason to vote Democratic….th e GOP must not be allowed to choose another Justice until they have returned to the ways of American Democracy. They have become a heinous party engaged in day to day treason against the American people.
AdLib : CHer – Have to echo Killgore, we do rely on our Daily Planet!
Chernynkaya : Yes, Murph. It’s urgent that we keep the Sen and win the House!
AdLib : Cher – We are connected but kind of disconnected from the majority of people out there so when we get upset at what’s going on and the MSM just let’s the nasty stuff sit out there like it’s reasonable, we should remember that for each of us, there are many who feel just like us. For example, this War on Women and the abject racism by the GOP and Fox News et al in light of the Trayvon murder is disgusting more and more people.
Chernynkaya : Thank you, KT.
MurphTheSurf3 : The LARGER an Obama victory the greater the chance of the Dems retaking the House, enlarging their majorities in the Senate and winning back some state governments. I have become very simple in my message: for Democratic for yourself and for those who you love.
Chernynkaya : And you know what else? Honestly, while I always knew I am more liberal than most Americans, I have also felt on a deep level that I–at the same time–represent many Americans. At least, the zeitgeist has always matched what I was thinking. Is that going too far?
KillgoreTrout : Well cher, we gotta stay in touch with the world we live in. And you do a fine job with the Daily Planet.
AdLib : Cher – Agreed, it’s healthier to disengage from cable news for periods of time. When you do and realize that nothing much has changed except the details, it’s less oppressive.
Chernynkaya : AL–I never thought of it that way! God, you are right. I knew I could count on you.
MurphTheSurf3 : AL…too much! Hah!
Chernynkaya : AL, I will of course be satisfied with even a slim win, but it would do my heart and soul so good to know that a big majority is sane. I have to stop paying attention to cable news. And, really, all media. But I’m addicted to news.
AdLib : Murph – I’m watching “Lockup The Young Turks” on Fox News.
KillgoreTrout : If it’s Roney who gets the nom, he’ll have to wear Depends during the debates!
AdLib : CHer – My point is, all the things that upset you about the GOP…are upsetting the majority of Americans too. Think of it this way, each week the Repubs do something to upset you, they sink deeper with most voters.
Chernynkaya : Thanks, AL! I know –the polls are so encouraging! I only wish the election was happening today!
KillgoreTrout : Hey Murph, glad you could join us!
AdLib : Cher – That would be an epic landslide if the numbers were anywhere close to those in Nov. and with everyone disliking Romney, that could indeed end up being the case.
KillgoreTrout : Romney is just engaging in some wishful thinking. After over three years in the big guy’s seat, Obama knows what he is talking about.!
AdLib : Cher – “In the hypothetical match-ups, 54% of registered voters would back Obama compared with 43% for Romney.” «link»
Chernynkaya : KT–just left the teevee machine on after Maddow. Hubby will turn it off soon.
MurphTheSurf3 : Hi Cher- Better the Young Turks than Lockup…a salute to one area in which the U.S. is still number one….incarcera ting its people, especially male blacks.
AdLib : Hey Murph!
Chernynkaya : Hiya, Murph!
Chernynkaya : KT, what else does Mitt have? Economy improving and now he thinks he can beat him on foreign policy. Flailing.
KillgoreTrout : cher, be careful, that show will rot your brain!
MurphTheSurf3 : Good evening one and all.
KillgoreTrout : AdLib, they are just trying to paint Obama as an opportunist. But Obama was absolutely right, he will have more flexibility after the election. I know he’s going to win, in my heart of hearts.
Chernynkaya : I’m patiently waiting. Watching Lockup.
AdLib : Hold on Cher, fetching something that should be your focus for this week…and cheer you up…
Chernynkaya : Me too, KT
Chernynkaya : Tonight I am counting on the PPOV community to do it’s usual job of making my dyspeptic pessimism evaporate. I got too angry at RWers this week.
AdLib : Killgore – Well, the main GOP attack now is against Obama for speaking the truth and telling Medvedev that he can be more flexible after the elections. Hmm, why would that be? Because the GOP might demagogue him over relations with Russia? What an absurd idea!
KillgoreTrout : cher with all the bacon I’ve eaten in my lifetime, cremation will be easy, all that bacon fat fueling the fire!
Chernynkaya : KT–Yummy, thanks.
Chernynkaya : So I saw! I just wanted that original coffin to be real bacon.
KillgoreTrout : Hey cher. How was your supper?
KillgoreTrout : I really am looking forward to the presidential debates. The GOPers are such lousy debaters, and they won’t get away with their lies, because the fact checkers will be out in full force.
AdLib : Cher – I was blaming you for today’s amusement with caskets.
AdLib : Killgore – Would you like to post the Music Thread on at least a semi-regular basis?
Chernynkaya : Did someone say absurdity? Here I am!
AdLib : Killgore – They’ve moved the goalposts of reality so their absurdity doesn’t appear outrageous to them.
KillgoreTrout : Thanks AdLib, I really do love music, mostly of all kinds.
KillgoreTrout : And the GOPers keep going on with the show. I’m amazed at the fact that they can’t see their own absurdity.
AdLib : Killgore – Hat tip back to you for running with it and always providing such a fantastic music selection on the weekend music threads!
AdLib : Killgore – It really has gone past the point of subtle comedy, the GOP has become so absurd and ridiculous, the satire has to go way overboard now to distinguish itself from reality.
KillgoreTrout : And you ran with it in fine fashion. You are great at providing a premise.
AdLib : It’s all Cher’s fault, I just posted a couple as a comment and she suggested a post.
KillgoreTrout : The GOP is a gift to comedy. Sadly, also tragedy!
AdLib : Killgore, you’ve been posting some pretty hilarious ones!
AdLib : Hey Cher! Great, see you shortly!
KillgoreTrout : I am doing fine. Was enjoying your thread about caskets.
Chernynkaya : Hi. I’m still eating dinner, but will re-join soon!
KillgoreTrout : HI!
AdLib : Hey Killgore, how are you this fine evening?
KillgoreTrout : What’s up AdLib?
AdLib : Don’t forget to say “hi” when you arrive!
AdLib : Vox Populi, our live chat about the week’s events begins tonight at 7 pm PST. Hope to see you then!
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